Fantasy league scoring system review

It’s time for our semi-annual review of our Survivor fantasy league scoring system. Give us your input below.

As a reminder, this is our current scoring system:

Tribe reward: 1 points
Tribe immunity: 2 points
Individual reward: 2 points
Individual immunity: 4 points
Finding an idol: 3 points
Playing idol successfully: 4 points
Redemption Island victory: 1 point
Return to game from RI: 2 points
VTEP (pre-merge): 1 point
Making the merge: 3 points
VTEP (post-merge): 2 points
FTC votes: 2 points each

I’ve put together something that should let me simulate scores pretty quickly and easily, so we can all say what effect any proposed scoring changes might have.

In the comments below, make your suggestions for changes. And to make it easier on me, please upvote any proposals that others make that you like- I’d like to determine which proposals are popular before I expend effort testing them.

I’ll run polls on this page to let you all vote on potential scoring changes.

Let’s tally up the votes!

Should winning a game advantage reward be worth 3 points instead of the normal 2 points for an individual reward win?

  • No (2 points for individual reward win, regardless of reward) (51% Votes)
  • Yes (3 points for winning game advantage in reward challenge) (49% Votes)

Total Voters: 39

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Note: In the poll above, 3 points would only be awarded if the game advantage is received as a direct result of winning the reward challenge- clues to the location of an advantage don’t count.

Should anyone who possesses the immunity idol receive 3 points?

  • No (3 points only for the person that finds the idol in the first place) (55% Votes)
  • Yes (3 points awarded to each person who takes possession of an idol) (45% Votes)

Total Voters: 38

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Note: In this poll, a yes vote means that the same idol being passed around will result in each person that takes possession of it getting 3 points.

To clarify, each person can only earn 3 points from the idol. Last season, Jason’s idol was passed around to Tai and Scot. Jason, Tai, and Scot would have each earned 3 points from it. But Jason would not receive an additional 3 points when he got the idol back from them.

If someone is handed the immunity necklace at tribal council, should that person receive 4 points?

  • Yes (56% Votes)
  • No (44% Votes)

Total Voters: 36

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This one is pretty self-explanatory. It’s also pretty unlikely, since it’s happened only a few times in 32 seasons. Still, it never hurts to cover your fantasy scoring bases.

John
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John

John is the co-host of the Purple Rock Survivor Podcast. He can get loud too, what the fuck!

Favorite seasons: Heroes vs. Villains, Cagayan, Pearl Islands, Tocantins, Cambodia
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  • Kemper Boyd

    How do you feel about minus points?

    • Like if one of your picks quit?

      • Kemper Boyd

        Yeah or idol misuse before final 5, because there is no misuse of an idol when it’s final 5.

        • Max_Jets

          I think there are good strategic incorrect idol plays too though. When Parvati plays her 2 idols, she is incorrectly playing one of her idols on Sandra but she is also building more trust with Sandra.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Fair. Good point

          • Also Tony’s idol play for LJ.

            However, I would allow the deduction for LJ because he was just reciprocating the favor without reading the crowd.

          • Purplerockmatt

            there is too much subjectivity here for my taste, when we are striving for objective measures that cannot be disputed when scoring.

          • Wait, you don’t want to have those arguments during the live blog?

          • Purplerockmatt

            the live blog is for snark dammit!

          • We can’t have snarky arguments?

          • Plus, there may be a situation where someone has immunity and plays her idol for someone else at final five. Is that an incorrectly played idol if that idol recipient doesn’t receive votes? That idol would have just expired otherwise.

        • Purplerockmatt

          what is idol misuse? using it when you don’t have the most votes? there are plenty of times it makes sense to hedge your bets there

          • Kemper Boyd

            maybe if you have none? I’m just throwing out ideas man!

          • As you should! We’re just brainstorming here.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I like the idea of negative points, I just don’t know how to make it work.

          • I’m not sure I like it, but I’m open to being convinced if I see the right proposal.

    • Other Scott

      I just don’t see where it’s applicable. Like what circumstance is being in the game worse than being kicked out of the game.

      • Kemper Boyd

        A quit, like clear cut Quits Magee, not Dana being told she can technically decide to stay but is clearly in crazy pain.
        I wouldn’t mind -1 for an idol misuse

        • Especially since Quits MaGee was not in danger of leaving that night.

          • Kemper Boyd

            No even if you jump before you are pushed, I don’t even mind someone being a wet blanket and letting themselves get voted out. This is for leave from your own choice for no other reason but you want to leave.

          • Well she wanted to go on a free vacation with her (now ex) boyfriend John.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Not really the same as she was in horrible pain in her digestive system and had to spend 3 days in hospital is it?

          • Agreed. To be clear, I was just being snarky about Quits Magee. It’s not fair to deduct points for medevacs because (for the most part) they would want to stay in the game. I would also say that people in Terry’s situation would not have the point penalty because he had no say in the matter of whether he stayed or not.

          • Right. And I don’t want to get into the murky territory of arguing whether someone’s quit was legitimate or not.

          • andythesaint

            I’d be willing to be an impartial judge on this if we wanted it. Since I don’t play the fantasy games. It honestly should be pretty straight forward (although, I suppose in real time I’d probably have judged Kathy Sleckman as a quit, and now give her the benefit of the doubt. Although I doubt anyone would’ve fought me on it in Micronesia and I doubt that minus point would have cost anyone a victory if they had Kathy on their team).

          • Kemper Boyd

            Quits Magee sucked so hard, I agree on Terry, that’s an understandable need to leave.

          • andythesaint

            Another possible fix for the quit (if we wanted to take away points for a quitter, but make it fair): put it up to a vote on a case by case basis.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yeah, I think we usually as an audience read a quit the same way. Dana= not a quit, Papa Smurf = quit.

  • Max_Jets

    Should a super idol exist this season, would we want to put a lower point value on playing it? Correctly playing an idol is impressive, but correctly playing a super idol is not.

    • indescribable hat

      If it works like last season, isn’t it impressive to get someone to hand you their idol? We saw someone fail to correctly play a super idol in Kaoh Rong.

      • Max_Jets

        Tai was flipping on Scot anyways, but I guess there is something to that. It just doesn’t require the same skill as knowing how/when to play a regular idol and 4 points seems like a lot. I also don’t know or remember how scoring works for this. Does Scot receive 4 points and not Tai or do both receive 4 points? What if the 4 points were split two points and two points between the players? Maybe I am making this too complicated.

        • No, this is worthy of discussion as well. As it is now, if Scot had played the super idol he would have received 4 points. Tai gets nothing for giving him the other half of the idol.

          I’m not saying that the way it is now is a bad thing, though. Our reasoning in setting up the scoring that way is that it’s a feat to get someone to give you their idol.

        • Other Scott

          I guess it sort of depends on whether we think someone is just going to be handed a super idol or not like Terry, Yul or Tony. If they are, its just as much of a feat to not have to play the idol as it is playing the idol.

          The super idol as constructed last year though actually took some skill in terms of getting the pieces together to play it. If Tai had given Scot his idol Scot would have deserved points for getting both idols together and playing it to save himself.

        • indescribable hat

          I don’t know how it would have worked last season, but I’d support giving each player half the usual points if they combine their idols at TC.

  • Are we going to address how Tai earned points for winning a reward AND it being a vote multiplier?

    • Yeah, that’s one of the main things I wanted to address. We’ve got to figure something out that will address that issue.

      • I believe that in Tai’s case, it should be just counted as a reward.

        • Other Scott

          I think it should be counted as the vote multiplier. PRP fantasy is about rewarding gameplay as much as possible, so earning an advantage should be worth more than earning a hamburger. But yes, one or the other makes sense.

          • You stated what I was trying to say so much better. However,I am worried that could complicate John’s scoring system.

          • Other Scott

            Nah, I think it’s pretty simple:
            Individual Reward: 2 points
            Game Advantage Reward: 3 points

            As long as we know what a game advantage is (not an advantage in the immunity challenge, not a clue to an actual advantage like an idol), I think this can be instituted.

          • Purplerockmatt

            so i think it should work where normal individual reward is 2 points, winning a game reward is 3 points but only if that game reward is the end of the advantage. So winning a clue would be 2, winning an extra vote 3. anything that requires an extra step after winning the reward to find the advantage is 2, anything that results in you being given the advantage with the win is 3

          • Other Scott

            This is more or less what I meant to say, yes.

          • Works for me!

          • I could theoretically run a simulation on how this affects points, but it wouldn’t change much. I’ll probably just put up a poll for this one.

          • That makes sense from a perspective of rewarding gameplay, but in the Kaoh Rong challenge, that would result in Tai getting more points than the other winners for winning the same challenge. I’m not necessarily opposed to that, but it might be worth considering.

          • Yeah, and I think we have to anticipate them doing the challenge that same way in the future.

          • Other Scott

            Yeah, that was more or less the point I was trying to make. Tai deserves more points from a fantasy game perspective because he went for something that would help him in game, rather than just going for a hamburger.

            People who only go for hamburgers don’t really have a chance of winning the game anyways.

          • That’s my big concern. I want the scoring system to be objective and easy to understand.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I think it should be for the doubler not the reward.

  • Mike Hirsch

    What about a + 1 bonus for players making the loved one reward?

    • Mike Hirsch

      If there is one.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        The reason I don’t like this one is because players already earn a point for making the merge. I feel that we shouldn’t get that many bonus points just for longevity. I mean, goats are getting dragged along at this point. Plus, if one of us were to strategically choose players who will earn points (like say, Tai and Nick) and another of us were to just choose all willy-nilly (like maybe Michelle and I don’t know… Peter, let’s say) the strategically minded person would get burned in the end.

        • Yeah, but what are the odds that anyone would be so stupid as to choose Michele and Peter?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Sometimes folks just get lucky. Other times they choose Rodney.

        • Mike Hirsch

          I’m not sure I agree with this, as there’s not a lot of difference between strategic picking and random picking, in my opinion. There are also a lot of strategic-seeming options (Scot) who turn out to be duds on points. Anyway, it doesn’t seem like many are in favor of it, so I’d call it a fairly moot point.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That part was me being an ass. I just don’t like the idea of a second bar for earning points. The merge is a good one, I myself don’t care to have one for another “marker” for how far someone got in the game. I’m happy that Joe Anglim got to see his dad the second time around, but I don’t think the person that chose him needs an extra point for it.

  • Winning the game: 10 points
    Making FTC: 1 Point

    • sharculese

      2 points for each FTC vote is already there to skew the results. Another 10 points for winning is not the best idea.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      10 points for winning the game basically ensures that the person who (in all new player seasons) got lucky and chose the winner as a happy accident will win no matter what. That doesn’t seem right to me.

    • Do you mean 10 points for the win would replace the 2 points per FTC vote?

      • no, along with the FTC votes

        • Roswulf

          That would make the fantasy game substantially more dull, especially during the bulk of the season.

          • Yeah, it would make it virtually impossible to win the league without picking the winner. As it is, it’s pretty difficult.

            (That’s the cue for Saturday Night Palsy to come in and remind us that it’s not impossible.)

  • Sad Lil

    +10 points for being an Eaglescout!

  • andythesaint

    One I’ve always thought is that points for “finding an idol” should be changed to “having an idol”. The great benefit of an idol is in possessing one. I’m not sure why it should matter if you’re the person who physically found it in order to benefit from it. Sash getting Marty to give him his idol deserves at least as many points as Marty did for finding it.

    The big one where this was noticeable was in Caramoan, when Erik got the points for finding an idol that he gave up literally seconds later. Andrea got no points for that idol (because she didn’t play it). It wasn’t even his idol. Like, ever, other than REEEEAALLY technically. (Whereas Andrea ended up getting a target on her for having it. All risk, no reward).

    The argument against could be that a lot of people could end up getting points this way, since sometimes idols are passed on a second before they’re played at TC (like in HvV). My counter to that would be: so what? What’s wrong with those idol points getting spread around more? Who hates it when points are given out?

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Yeah but last season, how many times did Scot, Jason, and Tai move those idols around between them? Would Scot get last minute points for going home with Jason’s idol?

      • As Andy said, more points are fun. But I do want to avoid a situation where one idol getting passed back and forth ends up being worth a total of 24 points after all is said and done.

        • andythesaint

          That’s a simple enough fix, especially since we’ve anticipated it: you can only get point from having the same idol once.

          So for South Pacific, Ozzy gets points for finding/having the idol. Then Cochran gets points for having the idol when Ozzy gave it to him. Ozzy does not get points again for getting that idol back.

          For Koah Rong, Jason, Tai, and Neal all get idol points for the idols they found. Tai would get extra idol points for the idol Jason gave to him. Scot would also get idol points for the idol Jason gave to him. Jason does not get extra points for getting his original idol back. Tai wouldn’t have gotten more if Jason gave it back to him again.

          • I’ll add that clarification under the poll.

          • andythesaint

            I also want people to remember that sometimes, people they LIKE get idols given to them. So try not to think about this as a way of giving Scot Pollard points.

          • You mentioned Cochran getting an idol from Ozzy. So if that’s not a great counterbalance, I don’t know what is.

          • andythesaint

            I did that intentionally. But, still, I do worry that people will be focusing on the Scot/Jason of it all. But seriously, Malcolm should get points for “Hold up, bro”. Although he did try and get a VTEP by voting for Reynold after taking his idol.

    • indescribable hat

      Who currently gets the points when an idol is handed to someone else and played correctly when Jeff calls for idols? If it’s the handee, it seems like they’re already getting enough points for that, but if it’s the hander, it makes sense to give the handee some points too.

      Also does it make a difference to the current scoring if they do it like Parvati (handing idols to other players) or Natalie (handing them to Jeff and saying who it’s being played for)? It seems like Parvati should still get as much credit for that, but Jerri and Sandra did have possession of idols for a moment and could presumably have done something else with them if they wanted.

      • andythesaint

        I believe in the Parvati scenario, only Jerri would’ve gotten points for correctly playing an idol. Because as you say, she could’ve just pocketed the idol and not played it.

        • indescribable hat

          But Natalie gets the points when she saves Jaclyn? Interesting. It seems to me that being saved and saving your ally should both be worth something in either case, but I appreciate that the person who hands the idol to Jeff makes the final call and figuring out when a former holder of that idol gets credit could get subjective.

          • andythesaint

            Need John to make a clarification here. But Natalie definitely gets the points for saving Jaclyn. Same with Jeremy and Stephen.

          • The person being saved benefits by not going home (and potentially by getting VTEP points). The person correctly playing the idol gets points for the strategic move.

          • andythesaint

            Right, but did Parvati get points or did Jerri or did both?

          • Just Jerri.

      • andythesaint

        I could be wrong though. Maybe the point of differentiation is if you give the idol at TC, then you still get points for it being played correctly (since you are basically playing it at that point). Whereas if you give it away prior to TC, you’ve surrendered future points.

      • Andy’s explanation is correct. The way the current scoring system is set up, Natalie Anderson got points for playing her idol on someone else. Parvati would not have gotten points for handing her idols to Jerri and Sandra.

    • Other Scott

      Okay, let’s go through the options:
      1. Give 4 points to each person who acquires an idol, either through someone handing it to them or finding it.

      • It would be 3 points, the equivalent points for finding an idol.

      • andythesaint

        For #3, you’ve just created the situation you say you’re against in #1: you’ve made some idols worth more than others. Which is to say, someone who finds an idol and plays it correctly is worth more than someone who finds it and gives it away. Even if giving it away is a sound strategic move on their part. (And of course, it would be worth more than getting an idol and playing it correctly as well).

        • Other Scott

          I understand that, which is why I said “Correctly played idols should have more points allotted than incorrectly played idols.” They are inherently more valuable.

          An idol that changes hands a bunch of times is not inherently more valuable than an idol that does not change hands.

          • andythesaint

            You may be exaggerating how often idols get passed around. I’m guessing the most it’s ever happened was twice last year.

  • Can we make our picks now?

    • Not yet! But very soon. I’m still setting everything up.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Do I need to have some kind of opening ceremony speech prepared?

        • Do you not already have it?

    • The post will go up Monday, August 22 at noon Eastern (UTC−04:00), and you can make your picks in the comments.

      I’m waiting until Monday to open it up to give international players time to find and watch the player bio videos.

  • Ethan Kyle

    I don’t necessarily disagree with the concept of a person getting points for getting handed the Imm necklace at tribal I jsut think 4 is a bit much, also do we know the date that the team picking is actualy going to start?

    • Monday, August 22 at noon Eastern (UTC−04:00). The post will go up then, and you can make your picks in the comments.

      I’m waiting until Monday to open it up to give international players time to find and watch the player bio videos.

      • Ethan Kyle

        Thanks, I have 3 of my picks i’m just wallowing on the 4th

    • andythesaint

      To be clear if it’s not, this is the entire list of people who would get points under this rule, through the history of 32 seasons of Survivor:
      -Heidi Strobel
      -Natalie Bolton
      -Albert Destrade

      So that would be a grand total of 12 points over 32 seasons if we give out 4 points. Does it still seem like a bit much?

      • Other Scott

        OTOH, do we really want to reward the Heidis, Natalies and Alberts of the world?

        • Max_Jets

          I really do think Natalie and Albert deserved it, even if Albert does suck. It’s a pretty amazing accomplishment.

        • andythesaint

          It’s a matter of perspective, I guess. Some people see proposals to grant points and think to themselves “I really don’t want to give other people more points”. I see it and think “it’d be so fun to get those extra points”.

          • Other Scott

            That particular comment was a joke. I would be fine with the points being awarded here. I’m not sure it’s something that’s going to happen again so I’m not sure it’s a big deal.

        • Always reward Natalie Bolton.

  • Violina23

    I am going through the bios now… I don’t HATE the first two people I’ve read so far, but you all are making me nervous…

      • Violina23

        Link is not working… are they buried somewhere on the CBS website?

        • Go to youtube and search for “Survivor CBS”, then click the tab that says videos. They’re all there.

          • Violina23

            Cool, thanks. I was old school and looking on their webpage. So very Gen-X of me….

            (I graduated high school in ’99. I didn’t have e-mail until 10th grade, or a cell phone until my junior year of college. I think I’m Gen Y? I’m so confused…)

    • Other Scott

      I feel like they weren’t really being helped by the fact that there was the question “What does it mean to be Gen X” which automatically makes almost every single Gen Xer look bad as they all focus on working hard and no participation trophies.

      • Violina23

        Those who didn’t give the us vs. them answers actually endeared themselves to me. I liked Kevin’s answer in particular.

  • Figaro

    I don’t actually play in the fantasy league (but I do enjoy ‘watching’ it), but I’ve seen suggestions before about giving a single point for whichever player provides the episode title quote each week. Obviously it’s nothing to do with gameplay, but it would make for a fun little bonus.

    • You should play! It takes almost no effort (which is why we like it).

  • Something Quirky

    I’m sure this will have been discussed at length, but four points initially seems like a lot, however it is earning an immunity, and means you have played tribal council successfully.

    Also, wow those polls are close. I just tied up the first one, sorry.