Purple Rock Survivor Podcast: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers episode 13 “The Survivor Devil”

John and Andy engage in a measured, reasonable discussion about the thirteenth episode of  Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers.

Purple Rock Survivor podcast: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 13 “The Survivor Devil”

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In this episode, Andy and John discuss:

  • Andy’s vow to not yell at all for this episode.
  • The plan to vote out Ben couldn’t possi-blie go wrong.
  • The outrage over the show allowing Ben to play an idol in a suboptimal way.
  • Ben’s idol strategy.
  • No, there aren’t too many idols now.
  • Ashley’s final critique of her own game.
  • The resumes of the final five.
  • Heroes, Healers, Hustlers.
  • Final predictions, along with some prop bets.

If you have questions or comments, @ us on Twitter, or send us an email (purplerockpodcast at gmail).

  • Hornacek

    “Andy’s vow to not yell at all for this episode.”

    I haven’t listened to this yet, but reading these bullet points, I expected the very next one to be “Andy fails in his vow.”

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Here’s my parlay: Ben wins one immunity challenge next week, and the FTC tiebreaker is used to determine a winner.

  • Diego Armando

    I think Chrissy gets 3rd and Mike goes out at 5. I don’t know the rest.

    • Roswulf

      That seems right to me. I have relatively high confidence on those placings, low confidence on the others.

      Gun to my head, I go Ben wins, Devon second, Ryan fourth. But those three could reshuffle in any order other than Ryan winning and I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

      I do think Crissy and Ryan are drawing dead.

  • In regards to the whole “I can’t let anyone see me look for the idol under the shelter” I largely agree that this is some manufactured drama BUT if they know you’re looking for an idol under the shelter you risk somebody jumping in and grabbing it first. You have a huge advantage because you already know where it is but there’s always the risk of somebody putting their hands on it first when they realize you’re looking for it. A small risk, but a risk. And considering we’ve already seen this cast go into a full blown wrestling match over an idol we know they’re serious about trying to grab it before you do.

  • indescribable hat

    I keep forgetting to watch Survivor on Wednesday nights and I can’t tell if the problem is with my memory or this season.

    • Blurry Denzel

      It can be two things.

  • Diego Armando

    To give potentially give Ben more credit than he probably deserves, looking for the Idol under the shelter in front of people could clue them ino the Idol location and cause everyone else to rush the spot and potentially get the Idol before he does.

    • Mike Hirsch

      I was thinking about this, and as they even mentioned on the podcast, currently Ben is the only one that knows where the idol clues are and where the idols have been hidden, minus the well idols. It could be that he simply didn’t want to give away a potential hiding location for the next idol that he planned to also find after he found and played this one.
      Which would also be giving him a lot of credit.

      • Right because Ryan’s idol had a very weird clue element to it.

  • Diego Armando

    Mike got Tyler and Will to vote Dan.

  • Mike Hirsch

    “All it takes for Mike is moving off the bottom of the totem pole, and Mike thinks that he’s on top of the world.”

    This is typical behavior for all Mikes.

  • sharculese

    Wasn’t Ashley’s final thoughts basically “I’m really mad at Devon right now, but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna get over it?”

    I remember thinking as I saw it that it didn’t look like any lasting damage had been done.

    • Her final words were “36 out of 39 days I couldn’t have gotten much closer than that. Devon completely went against the alliance that we had (laughs) I think there’s hard feelings still for the moment, but I did a lot better than I ever would’ve imagined. This whole experience has gave me a brand new outlook on life and I couldn’t be more grateful for that.”

    • Isaa

      Hell, she was pretty much already over it when she got to Ponderosa. She knew he didn’t have much of a choice and she admitted she would’ve done the same.

  • Alkanarra

    I was unspoiled on this twist but listened anyway because I don’t care about this season. And so: Good. It’s fucking infuriating that someone can make it to the end of a survival-based show and not know how to make fire and I’m glad there’s a punishment for it. I’m sure it will cause as much anger as MLB’s one-game wildcard change, and I personally think if they implement this they need to reconsider idols going all the way to final five, but whatever. It’s worth it to see Becky and Sundra get to look like idiots on a season-by-season basis.

    • sharculese

      I think this twist was added for two reasons:

      1.) For the same reason we went from a final 2 to a final 3 – production was sick of players they wanted to see at FTC being shut out because they were threats, and wanted to make that harder to do.

      2.) After the direness of the Cook Island’s final 4, World’s Apart and Kaoh Rong showed them that firemaking can actually be an exciting end to a season, and they want to see it happen again.

      Bottom line, I don’t believe this twist will definitely make for more dramatic final 4s, but I’m will to see how it works.

      • F***ing Stick

        The biggest problem with this twist as a solution to your first point is that, starting with Season 37, the big threats will just get voted out by the Final 5 instead of the Final 4 like they are now. That being said, I agree with you that I’m willing to give the twist a chance to see how it works out.

        • sharculese

          There’s a very good likelihood that happens.

        • sharculese

          One thing I will point out though, at 5, you can generally still use idols.

          • F***ing Stick

            True, but they might change it back to idols expiring at F6, especially if we end up with a Yul-like situation of someone making it to FTC after playing an idol at F5 this season or next. I was surprised when I saw that they hadn’t changed the expiry point for this season. Although I guess in that case the person would have had to at least win fire-making to get there, so maybe they won’t change it.

        • Alkanarra

          True, but that just speeds up the alliance-busting phase, which is ultimately a good thing. Alliances will need to cannibalize their threats earlier, giving the on-the-outs player more options. You’ll also have situations where an alliance simply can’t cut their threat that early and need to risk keeping them around because they need the vote.

          Also, what happens when you have multiple late-game threats? Take MvGX for example. If you take David out one move earlier then Jay is still in the game, which is a huge problem. Well, OK, we can’t do that, so let’s move everything else up and take *both* of them out earlier, but that means Sunday is now in the game for those two votes with her partner Brett whereas Hannah/Ken don’t have their alliance mate, and that shakes up the whole situation; Hannah/Ken probably won’t get rid of David if it leaves Sunday, Brett, and Adam to pick them off.

          If it breaks up alliances earlier then I’m all for testing it out.

          • F***ing Stick

            You make a good point about it busting alliances earlier, but your MvGX example doesn’t hold up. Jay was 6th, Brett was 5th, and David was 4th. If you know about this twist, you swap David and Brett (which is what Adam wanted to do) and take your chances with Brett (the lesser threat) at the F4.

          • Alkanarra

            With Chris, Sunday, and Jess on the jury you *cannot* let Bret make it to the end; at least with David you can claim his accomplishments as a group process, with Bret you’re surrendering 3 guaranteed jury votes. But that’s just my opinion.

            Ultimately I see this pushing up the action more and I like it. If you really want to control the endgame you will need a solid group of four people rather than three and that just makes it *way* harder, especially because it can’t be obvious that two of those four people are a close pair as the other two will know they’ll be the ones sent to the fire making. Endgames will be more chaotic because of this and players will need to be more flexible about taking threats out early, which is all good in my book, even if it does mean a Cirie-type becomes a way, way bigger target. The power couples will also need to be way less obvious because no one will be willing to work with them as they know they’ll just be the firemaking sacrifice. And then you’ll get the arrogant Ozzy-types who just think “whatever, I can beat anyone at fire making” and it’ll be part of their strategy. The more I think about it, the more I’m OK with this decision.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            What makes you think Jess would vote for Bret?

          • Alkanarra

            A really bad memory. For some reason I mistook her with Sunday while also counting Sunday as a separate person.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Don’t forget Gabon! Beating Matty in fire-making elevated Bob from worst winner ever to, uhhh….. closer to second-worst?

        I’m also willing to see how it plays out, but a lot of what makes fire-making exciting is that it’s unexpected and rare. Building it into the structure of every season defeats that.

      • Hornacek

        I don’t know if I heard this from someone official or a commenter, but this change appears to be a reaction to David being taken out at final four in MvGX. Production would have *loved* him to make it to the finals (and likely win). But the other 3 players knew they couldn’t let that happen.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I believe you mean the other 2 players and one very pretty prop.

          • Hornacek

            Oh Ann Ken, you are a beautiful tropical fish.

    • Roswulf

      I think the reason that I initially strongly disliked this twist is that I DON”T like when this becomes a survival game. Watching people forage is boring; watching people be hungry and thirst and sick is worse than boring. I don’t like it when survival skills determine boot order.

      However on second thought…I’m neutralish. The strategic decision this creates is not all THAT much less interesting than a normal final four. And firemaking challenges can be fun (Have I mentioned how much I love Cook Islands?)

      So in conclusion….I’m grumpy because people I don’t like are doing well, and shouldn’t blame the game for it. But I will if Ben wins.

      • Alkanarra

        I’ll be a little unhappy *this* season (as much as I can given I don’t care about the outcome) because the players never had a chance to factor it into their decision making. For future seasons I love the extra strategy it will necessitate and am willing to see it play out. It will, however, eat up more time in the finale, which is already packed pretty tight, but that’s the only real big negative I can see.

    • @disqus_3Sm0bOf1sj:disqus and I have had a theory for a while. A fire-making theory. We both believe that Mike will lose fire-making, probably to Ben. For a while, it was Ashley. Now it’s Ben

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        So who do you think will be booted out in fifth place? Devon?

        • Yeap. Chrissy takes Ryan and Ben and Mike go to fire

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I can get behind that.

    • Maritimer

      I don’t hate it. I don’t think it fixes the problems production hopes it does, but its fine. I just wish they told them in advance so they could strategize around it. I think that the strategy around it will be more interesting that the event itself and we are going to (likely) get two seasons where players don’t know this new format before they can strategize for it.

  • Diego Armando

    I will say my prediction will be:

    1. Devon
    2. Ryan
    3. Chrissy
    4. Ben
    5. Mike

  • Diego Armando

    I can see why people would be angry at that twist, but at least they are using it on the season where it can’t possibly hurt the outcome because there is no good one.

    • the sky is falling

      The marble challenge was thrown in so no one can call the twist the worst ever.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    Today in Devon trolling: Among my local Spanish speaking population, Pinto is slang for a tiny penis.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I wish I knew how to do GIFs. This would be a good place for Devon’s “whoa” after Ben told him about Ryan’s HII.

  • Off-topic, but a local Survivor celebrity is doing something pretty cool in my area:
    http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Cole-and-Heidi-Hamels-donate-Table-Rock-Lake-home-to-Camp-Barnabas-464423133.html

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      That is pretty cool. I don’t think I ever put two and two together before, but Cole Hamels and Kyle Kendrick were both starters for the Phillies for a very long time. I’d like to think Heidi and Stephenie hung out on Wednesday nights watching Survivor, but it’s much more likely that they’re completely done with it.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        I thought about that constantly.

      • Some realists said that they probably did this because they did not get as much as they wanted on the real estate market. I am trying to be a realist.

  • Omer

    It is less relevant now, but I think the issue still bother some people (mostly Andy) so I want to repost why I think to 4-3 split vote was a good call. It is the same things I wrote before under a different name ,”noname”, with a one word change (I will leave the readers to find out which word it is). The original one was posted in the week of the 4-3 split. you can ignore this post if you have read the original one (or if you haven’t and you just don’t want to read it)

    “””
    I don’t think the 4-3 split is a bad call . I agree you need to pick someone and hope she doesn’t use an idol, but do you need to put more than 4 votes on her? you put 4 votes on her and you have to ask yourself where the other 3 votes will be more useful. If you trust your alliance there is no reason to put the 3 other votes on the same person. On the other hand If this person use an idol and not all the 4 healers vote for the same person (they don’t even have to vote with you, maybe some will vote for Ben and some for Lauren) it will be very useful to put the 3 votes on someone else. So the question is what option is more probable- someone from your team is not voting with you or, idol is used and not all 4 healers vote together. What happens in 4-4 split? (which is not considered such a bad move as the 4-3) the question is very similar – “what option is more probable- someone from your team is not voting with you or idol is being used” . In both case (4-3, and 4-4) I don’t think people calculate the probabilities (you can really know what the probability that idol will be used) , they just ask themselves do they trust their alliance, if the answer is yes they split the votes (there is no question that 4-4 is better than 4-3, the question is if 4-3 better than 7-0).
    We also saw that they work to increase the chances that not all 4 healers will vote together (just in case an idol is used, if idol isn’t used it doesn’t matter), and they did a good job.
    I will say that I don’t think Ben thought about all of this (but Devon might have) , for some reason when he heard Lauren doesn’t vote he assumed the spilt need to be 3-3 (which is very bad) but it can be (and actually was at the end) 4-2, which the same logic apply to as 4-3 (if you trust your alliance do the split) .
    I think the reason that people think that the 4-3 is a bad decision is because in 4-3 you have to pick someone (in 4-4 you don’t) and if you already pick why not do the 7-0 (the picking is the hard part). and the reason as I tried to explain is- even after you pick there is a chance you picked wrong and you want to minimize the chance that the vote will go against you.
    I hope what I said is clear, English is not my mother language .
    “””

  • Prediction for next week:
    5. Devon is taking out first because this season can not good things.
    4. Ryan loses the firemaking challenge to Dr Mike because Ben takes Chrissy to the end.
    3. Chrissy 2 votes (JP, Ryan)
    2. Ben 3 votes (Ashley, Devon, Lauren)
    1. Dr Mike 4 votes(Joe, Desi, Cole, and tiebreaking vote Chrissy)

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    I assume I was included in the targets of the Chrissy screed, but nothing that was said in the podcast addressed any of my arguments from yesterday (except John’s bullet point at the end. Truly the hero of this podcast). In yesterday’s discussion I never said Chrissy was a good social player, a good strategic player, or that I thought other people out there liked her/will vote for her. I def don’t want to relitigate everything here, but the question that was put to me yesterday was why I like Chrissy, and my response was that I like her because she’s mean (and that I haven’t seen definitive evidence that she is a misogynist). Am I not even allowed to like who I choose???

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6cbad031193817aacc6ee483ce44cf276ca8323477ec84e6e5366f1a7bebe383.jpg

    • I don’t think I got in on that argument yesterday. It’s fine to like Chrissy, but I think it’s hard to deny that there’s evidence to suggest that she’s been remarkably good at excluding/disregarding people while also talking about how great she is at relating to other people.

      I should add that it’s also fine to like terrible Survivor players. Other Scott certainly does.

      • Purplerockmatt

        one might say that a player cannot truly be terrible unless Other Scott likes them

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          What are his thoughts on Savage?

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Totally, which is why I wouldn’t deny it.

        🙂

        Maybe my fellow PRP commenters can’t wrap their heads around liking someone while also not thinking they’re a good player.

        • Alycia Swift

          I like her too. I don’t think she’s a terrible player but I don’t think she’s a good player. She has social game problems. So does Ben. So does Ryan. Do did Lauren. So did Joe. So did JP. So did Cole. So did many others this season.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Chrissy definitely thinks that Chrissy is a good player.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          You should check out my fan friction article here on this site if you haven’t already. I’m actually really proud of it.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Out! Of! Fucking! Nowhere!

      • the sky is falling

        That’s my specialty.

    • purplerockandy

      Liking Chrissy is fine. Defending Chrissy is dubious.

  • Things I disagree with you that you said on this podcast:

    Devon would be good player on any season.

    Chrissy has at least one vote in FTC. (JP)

    I think they should hold back putting idols back in the game just to fuck with some these players.

    Andy should stop making vows.

    • I agree with your third point. Mix it up a little bit. That is why what swapping at 18 was so cool in Cambodia.

      • I feel like they have mixed it up… just not always in the right ways (see: Two Tribes, One Tribal Council)

        • Yeah, do mixing up to keep the players on their toes, not to convolute the situation.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yes, this.

    • purplerockandy

      I’ve done pretty good in keeping to some of my vows in life.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Not the one about shouting in this podcast.

        • purplerockandy

          Oh, like it’s my fault that some guy somewhere implied that maybe possibly Mike getting this far suggests that he’s doing something right.

          What would you have me do, Palsy? Let it go?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Hell, no! The more you shout the less we have to listen to John fawn over Devon like a mooney-eyed schoolgirl.

          • Other Scott

            It’s so dumb that they’re keeping Mike around. The one thing I’ve slowly come to learn about juries is that they cheer for the underdog and rationalize it in their head on why they should vote for them.

            Don’t bring the underdog anywhere near Final Tribal. If Mike wins no one will have anyone but themselves to blame, everyone deserves to lose.

  • TheForRealDeal

    I don’t think you understand Andy. Chrissy did mental multiplication one time. I also know how many seconds are in a minute. She’s relatable.

    • Fijian Banded Iguana

      Hi, all! I’ve been lurking for months, and am delurking just to say that this is another example of Chrissy’s amazing social game. She performed these feats of mental multiplication in service of dissing her only real ally, Ryan. I mean, Ryan does suck, but Chrissy really shouldn’t be saying so.

      • First of all, welcome! Secondly, that is a great point. It also made the other side really realize that Chrissy is pretty intelligent, so it did Chrissy no real favors.

        • Fijian Banded Iguana

          Thank you! Super happy I got brave and signed up!

          I thought other players also knew how many seconds were in an hour, and just kept their pieholes shut. But who knows? Some certainly did not do well at even simpler math, like proposed vote splits.

          • First of all, this crew can’t keep track of how many votes there should be. Secondly, I bet a lot of them thought that Probst was asking a rhetorical question.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I don’t think that many of them know what the word “rhetorical” means.

          • I bet some do.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Okay, maybe just Chrissy doesn’t. That seems possible.

          • Fijian Banded Iguana

            So we’re agreeing, right?

          • Oh yeah.

  • Sake

    Jeff has been doing a porny “get it onnnn” before some challenges this season. Is that a new thing? I feel like it’s a new thing.

      • As soon as the words came out of my mouth I was like, “There had to be a better way to say that.”

    • Dramus18

      I feel like he’s saying it just so they can use it as a word puzzle answer in the future.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        They’re down to that or having Bob Barker co-host so that the phrase can be “____ ____ ___ ______ __ ________”.

        • “I’m sexual harasser Bob Barker’s ghost!”

          Did I guess it?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I actually didn’t know two of the things in that statement.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I didn’t know two of the things in that statement.

    • Maritimer

      He’s been doing it on and off for a while

  • F***ing Stick

    Completely off topic question for @hornacek:disqus and @disqus_sjBnbSyo83:disqus : Do either of you take the city busses in Hali on a regular basis (or even have friends that do)? If so, how reliable are they when it snows? I’m particularly interested in knowing about buses that cross the MacDonald Bridge and the one that goes out to the airport.

    • Maritimer

      So long as the snow isn’t real bad, snow makes them no more unreliable than normal. They have some timing issues generally but are pretty good. I’ve never taken the airport bus but I’ve heard its pretty reliable

      • F***ing Stick

        Okay, thanks. The current prediction is 5-10cm of snow the day I’m flying home for the holidays, which is enough for me to not totally trust that the intercity buses won’t get cancelled (especially if most of that falls just before/during the time I’m supposed to be on the bus). I’m seriously considering heading to the airport the day before and was thinking of coming all the way into the city since there are more/cheaper options for places to stay, but I won’t do that if I won’t be able to get back out to the airport.

        As for the timing issues, that was going to be my next question. How much can I trust the posted schedule?

        • Hornacek

          I’m not that familiar with weekend schedules, but I’d say there might be a little delay but I wouldn’t expect much. The local weather says “a few flurries”, not “snow”

          • F***ing Stick

            Thanks. I’m flying on Tuesday and the weather prediction for Hali that day is supposed to be “light snow”. I can deal with (small to medium) delays, it’s just big ones/cancellations that would be problematic.

          • Hornacek

            I’ve never taken that Airport bus before (#320 I think) but I think it only makes a few stops before it gets into Dartmouth/Halifax, and it’s on the 102 highway so it’s cruising at 100km/h – the schedule says from the airport to downtown Halifax it’s an hour.

          • F***ing Stick

            Thanks for all your help! I had mentioned my plan to my landlord, who used to live in Halifax, and he was telling me that the busses would get cancelled if it snowed much and that the intercity busses were more reliable (which was the opposite of my impression), which got me freaking out about how realistic my plan was. Your (and @Maritimer’s) info has reassured me a lot.

        • Maritimer

          I would say always make sure you’re erring on 5-10 minutes either side of the posted time and you should be fine. The weather for Tuesday doesn’t seem like it would cause any major issues

          • F***ing Stick

            Thanks. 5-10 minutes of wiggle room is definitely no big deal. Depending on the timing of the precipitation on Tuesday I may not even need to head to the area ahead of time, but it’s good to have a plan for if I need to.

    • Hornacek

      I take the 84 bus to/from work every day – it crosses the MacKay bridge, not the MacDonald. As @disqus_sjBnbSyo83:disqus said, the buses are pretty reliable in the snow – usually when they’re delayed during snow it’s because of non-bus vehicles in front of them being slow.

      It is very rare that buses get pulled off the road completely – when it’s happened it’s during blizzard type weather where the RCMP are telling everyone “Stay off the roads!”

      • F***ing Stick

        Thanks. This is really helpful. I don’t think this “storm” is likely to be a “Stay off the roads!” storm. I’m aware of one time since I moved to the province that the city transit completely shut down (2 days in March 2015 when we got several feet of snow). Have there been other times that you’re aware of this recently-ish?

        • Hornacek

          I can only remember one recent event where there were 2 days in a row where basically the whole city shut down because of blizzard-type weather (including the buses), so it was probably those 2 days you mentioned.

          Before that I’d have to go back to the Metro Transit strike in 2012 where the buses weren’t running for 6 weeks.

        • Maritimer

          Only times I can recall it happening is when we get more that like 25 cms along with high winds. Some get rerouted but I doubt that would happen to the airport bus in any major way

      • the sky is falling

        eww… The bus? Plebian!

        • Hornacek

          Hey, that bus gets me to work in ~35 minutes. If I drove, I wouldn’t get there any quicker, plus I’d have to pay for parking, which is insane in downtown Halifax. I’d rather pay $78 for a monthly parking pass.

          In fact, due to taking the bus to work, the amount of time I drive my car is greatly reduced – my 2012 car only has ~48,000 km on it. Each time I take it in for service, the mechanic asks me “Do you drive this car at all?”

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Parking in the city is too gd expensive. Which makes me super duper appreciative of my subsidized bus pass.

          • Hornacek

            Where I work, they hold a raffle (or they used to – not sure if they still do) every end of December where they buy about 50 parking passes for the nearby parking garage that are good for the entire year. Then they raffle them off (because there are always more than 50 employees that want to buy them). The last time I checked it out, the monthly price (if you won the raffle) was $120 and the actual price if you just walked in off the street was around $160

            Why would I want to spend that much more money when I could just pay much less for a bus pass where I could get on the bus and then put my head down and not have to worry about driving or traffic?

          • the sky is falling

            “Yeah, the guy in the $4,000 suit is going to ride the bus . Come on!”

  • DrVanNostrand

    So, I mostly agree with what Andy and John said about the idol. However, as one of the ‘process nerds’ Andy described, I object to one of Andy’s arguments. The rule about when to play the idol is not vague, and there is no wiggle room in the phrasing. I’ve been able to find screen shots of both Cagayan and Kaoh Rong notes, which both have the rule:

    “If you intend to use the idol, you must reveal it or give it away to someone else after all of the votes have been cast, but before the votes are read.”

    The timing is clearly and explicitly described, and note the use of the word “must”. There aren’t a lot of rules in Survivor, but this is one of them. That said, it didn’t matter, it only made the idol weaker, and I’m not surprised Jeff rolled with it because it was good TV. I also don’t really care, except that Andy was trying to imply that it wasn’t really a rule.

    • And I think the “non-transferrable” thing from last season would never have been enforced if it weren’t for someone speaking up. But that was written right on the instructions too.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I don’t know if that is the case, but I would have been very annoyed by that one, because the change in the game would have been massive.

      • Other Scott

        What do you think they tried to mean by “non-transferrable”? That you couldn’t steal a vote from someone and give it to someone else?

        • I wasn’t saying that the producers screwed up in writing non-transferrable. I’m saying that, much like the idol in this episode, that advantage could have been played despite what the note said if it weren’t for someone speaking up.

          Similarly, I think if someone had said, “Wait, Ben can’t play that idol before the votes are cast!”, Probst might have relented. But even if the other players knew about the rules of the idol, it wasn’t in their interest to object to Ben playing it too early.

    • purplerockandy

      I’m willing to accept being wrong on this account.

  • giorgos

    I think Devon is winning and he’ll probably be the most deserving of this cast but I disagree that Ben would be one of the worst winners ever. His social game is bad for sure but he was one of the biggest targets (if not the biggest) since the merge and he is still around. If he ends up with the right people in the final and wins despite his social game I wouldn’t call that a stumble to victory.

    • the sky is falling

      Added bonus for some, Ben winning would probably piss off Hantz.

      • Prom King

        Why? Is this a twitter thing? Because one would think that Hantz would support a Ben win because Ben is another player who made big moves but has had a certain lack of emotional intelligence at times.

        • the sky is falling

          I was guessing that he would be pissed because Ben found a ton of idols and was mostly disliked by his competitors. Russel would hate for someone to win while playing a similar game. Although, I guess Mike Hollowel is a better comparison.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            But Mike was actually liked by most of the jury. Russell, not so much.

          • the sky is falling

            I’m confused , are we talking about Mike or Ben? I meant Ben is more like Hollowell than Hantz. Meh, who cares, a week from now I will not care about this season ever again, just like one world

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I thought you were comparing Mike to Russell. Sorry, I’ve been drinking. I live in the United States of America and the fear is upon me; so, I’ve been drinking.

    • purplerockandy

      But that’s why he’d be a worst winner in a very unique way. He’ll have had to fight his way to the finals, making many should-be game-killing mistakes, yet in no way stumbled his way or was dragged to the end. It’ll just be an indictment on this whole season.

      • Prom King

        I take it you think Mike Hollaway is also an all-time worst winner. I assume that means then that the PRP list of worst winners ever are Mike, Bob, Michele, Fabio, maybe Sophie (if only because the season is ranked so low by both you and John), and Ben if he wins. Interesting. A diverse group. I’m curious as to Emma and Matt’s perspective and if they’d add anyone else to the PRP consensus of Worst Winners Ever.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I have Bob bottom of my list. He is top of the list of nicest seeming winners though.

          • Prom King

            Not surprised, I think many here do! He’s a solid mid-tier winner to me.

            It is funny that people – not necessarily you – seem to think that Devon’s social game of being on the right side of votes and especially just being a well-liked, all-around good guy (I actually love him this season as well due to his awesome personality) makes him a respectable winner when compared to the remaining four… because, minus the right side of the votes part, that’s Bob’s story too. Granted that nothing can convince me that Devon has made actual strategic moves that he or he and a partner generated, and I know a lot of people are making cases for that supposed side of him.

            Bob won because he was a sweet, supportive, amiable guy (and challenge beast) – and that’s winning due to being seen as a likable person. Which is the social game at its purest, especially in a cluster season like Gabon where such games were basically ignored by the two dominant asshole alliances. Bob is there for me with Ethan and Natalie White and others who won mainly because they were just decent human beings who other people wanted to see win. I think that’s a big part of Adam and Jeremy’s wins too (although both of them also had a lot of bullet points on their resume).

          • purplerockandy

            If Devon wins, he’ll be suitably Aras.

          • Other Scott

            I think Devon is better than Aras. Aras acted against his best interests multiple times, he was very enthusiastic about trying to take out his shield in Terry and tried to go to the end with Cirie and kind of backed into a win because neither of those things happened.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Devon is head and shoulders above Bob (or Fabio) because he actually knows what’s going on. He’s not great, but he’s not Bob. Please pull your head out of your ass.

            (Edit: “Minus the right side of the votes part” Exactly!! That’s the difference between a good under the radar player and being fucking Mr. Magoo.)

          • Prom King

            Please pull your head out of your ass.

            Please don’t be an asshole.

          • DrVanNostrand

            OK. That was too mean. I apologize.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Oh no, whoever wins I’ll consider them a low tier winner because of how awful the gameplay has been by all. I just like Devon more than the others.
            I’ve also said I love Bob, Bob is the best person. His twitter makes me so happy. When Blurry Denzel, Em and I played Fuck,Marry, Kill with every Final 3 I would have married Bob. There are few FMK 3’s I wouldn’t marry Bob. Bob is awesome. AWESOME. Just his game is poor on a terrible season.

        • purplerockandy

          I do not consider Mike to be one of the worst winners. There wasn’t much he could do against that group because he was so obviously better than they. He still tried stuff, but the one credit you can give that group of wet blankets is that they never fucked up and took their eyes of the ball. They knew they’d lose to Mike if the opportunity arose. And they were right.

          • Prom King

            He’ll have had to fight his way to the finals, making many should-be game-killing mistakes, yet in no way stumbled his way or was dragged to the end.

            Gosh that sure sounds like Mike though.

          • purplerockandy

            I disagree with the idea that he made many game-killing mistakes.

          • Prom King

            He would have been voted out multiple times if he had not won immunity. That fact alone shows his weakness as an overall winner.

            And then there’s alienating/blindsiding Rodney with Joaquin vote, failed attempt to bluff with idol and save Shirin, and one of the all-time greatest fails in the history of the show – his near-renege at the auction that cost him any chance of re-connecting with his alliance.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Boston Rodney would have won that season. I really enjoyed Mike’s win. He wasn’t good at Survivor but he was a good person. His personality was a big part of his game.

          • Prom King

            Agree.

            I think he’s a lower tier winner, but he’s also one of my personal favorites among winners. He and Jenn are the only things I really enjoyed about Worlds Apart. I dread re-watching that season but I feel like I need to eventually. I guess.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Now that I’ve seen every season, I’m thinking of doing a straight run from Borneo to the end. Part of me thinks that’s crazy and part of me thinks that’s a good reason to do it. One year. Everything.

          • Prom King

            That sounds very intense. Good luck with that and I hope you continue to watch Survivor after that one year!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Maybe ten a year is more reasonable. And still a bit considering there are two live seasons a year that I will watch.

          • purplerockandy

            Rodney was the best strategic player that season. Mike was smart not to take him to the end.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I… I believe in Christmas again!

            But also, pretty low bar.

          • purplerockandy

            He would have gotten voted out because he was so much better than everyone he was playing and they all knew it. The only difference between Mike and ever other player who was voted out because they were the biggest threat left in the game is that he never let the other side do it. That’s not a sign of failure. It’s success.

            Blindsiding Rodney with the Joaquin vote is why he was able to survive the merge when Joe was immune – he kept his meat shield in the game and diminuished Rodney’s alliance by one.

            The auction action was a mis-step, that meant nothing. They were already targeting him, which spurred him to do what he did. Erase that mistake and nothing changes for Mike. He’s still targeted for being the biggest threat left in the game. The only thing he could’ve changed is if he had stuck to the reneging. Then he would’ve had the advantage that didn’t help Dan.

            It pissed people off a bit, sure. To the tune of an incredibly easy final tribal victory.

          • Prom King

            I think it also helped that he had Chrissy and Dr. Mike up against him at the final tribal.

            Blindsiding Rodney was the start of Rodney not trusting him. Why do that? That was so Ryan of him. When you combine that with auction fail, that’s a bridge permanently burned.

            You’re underestimating that auction fail. Without it, he may have had some opportunity to reconnect with some of his former alliance partners because alliances often shift. It especially hurt him with Dan, a particularly dim-witted player who would have had no grudge against him to cling to because Dan took that so, so personally. With that error, Rodney’s alliance were provided ongoing fuel to never work with him.

            Needing to win every immunity challenge because otherwise you will be voted out is not the sign of an amazing player. Not to take away how impressive those wins were, of course.

          • purplerockandy

            So… every player who is voted out before the finals sucks then?

          • Prom King

            LOL I did not say that. But the absolute need to win because you’ve backed yourself in a corner and have zero other options and will be voted out, week after week, is not the hallmark of an amazing player. Amazing players are nimble and don’t have to solely rely on an immunity run to get to the end.

          • Other Scott

            I think you’re a bit higher on Mike than I am Andy. I don’t think he’s a bad winner, but I do think he’s bottom third – I think there’s a way you can play successfully as a target and Mike wasn’t QUITE skilled enough to pull it off in the same way a Tyson or Boston Rob was – or Jeremy for that matter.

          • purplerockandy

            I will not argue that Mike is as good as some of the best winners of all-time. That still leaves a whole middle area.

          • Other Scott

            I think it really depends on whether you phrase the question as worst players to win – in which Mike is firmly middle tier, or flukiest wins, in which case Mike is definitely pretty close to the bottom.

          • Other Scott

            I think the opposite side of this coin is someone like Adam, who I don’t think won in a very fluky way at all but has a game with some really major shortcomings associated with it.

          • purplerockandy

            I feel like whatever other moves Adam may or may not have made, the biggest key (perhaps only) to his victory was “being the last best option for the jury after every other preference was eliminated”. And not especially by him. And his survival was largely based around the same.

          • Other Scott

            I 100% agree – what I’m saying is that his win wasn’t fluky because that’s actually a reasonably likely thing to have happen in a game, but not a result at all of anything Adam was trying himself.

          • DrVanNostrand

            With the exception of the Joaquin vote, he was completely drawing dead. Neither of those actions did anything to change his situation.

        • purplerockandy

          Not Sophie. Hard to find a single fault with how she won. Did exactly what she needed to do.

          You can add Jenna and Adam to that list.

      • StormofCuteness

        This, for me, makes him an even better winner…plus, he was my pick to win since the 1st episode when I added him to my team.

      • Other Scott

        I think there was some skill to his idol finding and his awareness of playing them that would keep him out of the bottom 5 winners – plus however he gets through the F5 situation which I’m very interested to see.

  • Diego Armando

    I am not as sure Ryan is losing as Andy and John are. I don’t want him to win, but I could see him winning a Chrissy, Ben scenario on the grounds of “we like you more than them”.

    • I sorry but I have agree to with the people who called Ryan and mixture of the worst parts of Rupert and Sandra.

      • Diego Armando

        I don’t disagree with that statement in the slightest. I just think these idiots might crown him.

        • Maritimer

          I would think that the jury rankings likely are: Ben > Devon > Mike > Ryan > Chrissy but its possible that Ryan could beat Mike

          • Prom King

            I’ve been thinking about winner chances and the different ways I try to look at who will be the winner. (1) PRP and the players themselves have hit strategy & resumes & accomplishments pretty hard as a way to look at if a winner is deserving or not, or is even in contention or not. I can see that perspective the most, although I differ in thinking of immunity finds and challenge wins as part of person’s resume. (2) reddit and also PRP have fixated on the basic fact that most if not all jury members will vote for the person they like more (or can stomach being a winner more). That’s a hard one because likability is often invisible. For example, incredible Kim had a lot of accomplishments but was also just really well-liked by everyone, and that’s a hard thing to translate onto the screen because scenes of a winner just sitting around camp, having supportive conversations, being a likable person etc. do not make up a whole lot of scenes in general. Still, probably the most important of the three ways I’ve been thinking about. (3) The main thing I’ve taken from edgic nonsense is that a lack of personal content means a lack of winner chances.

            For me,

            (1) Resume: Ben > Chrissy > > Ryan > Devon > > > Mike
            (2) Jury Likes Them: Devon > Ben > Mike > Ryan > > > Chrissy
            (3) Personal Content: Ben > Chrissy > Mike > > Ryan > > > Devon

            So I guess overall winner chances for me: Ben > Chrissy > Devon > Mike > Ryan

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            My thinking has evolved on very similar lines, with one addition: (4) Jury composition, both as a whole and the order in which jurors arrive at Ponderosa. I think an overlooked factor in assessing what the jury is thinking is that their first-hand knowledge of what’s going on in the game ends with their boot, and after that all they know is what they see at tribal and what subsequent jurors tell them. In the case of Triple-H, three of the first four jurors were Healers (and the fourth was JP, so…). Dr. Mike obviously has not covered himself in glory, but if he’s the default choice of the Healers, and if Lauren and Ashley are salty about Ben and Devon, respectively, it is great news for the sex doctor.

          • Prom King

            Great point about jury composition and order they arrived.

          • Maritimer

            I think personal content has become a bit overblown as a criteria given the big personal stories of Adam and Jeremy, but on the flip side, look at Michele. I feel like she barely had any. I think its fair as an assessment criteria but isn’t as mandatory as it is being made out to be right now. I also agree with ADS that jury composition matters (see, for example, Spencer in Cambodia – Kass being first juror in totally tanked him. I don’t know he beats Jeremy anyway but I don’t know if he gets shut out). I also think that Jury Likes Them really outweighs the rest of it (or, the way I’ve heard it phrased here “Can the jury stomach losing to them?” which is also a good way to view the question).
            I think you’re right resume wise if we’re looking at flashy moves. I think Devon deserves a lot of credit for his alliances but it may not be apparent to the jury. Of course, there’s still time for resume building

          • Prom King

            I also think that Jury Likes Them really outweighs the rest of it

            Sad to say – because I’m longing for a Ben or Chrissy win – I agree. Although if Devon is out and Ben is in final three, I think that’ll work for me!

          • Max_Jets

            “(1) Resume: Ryan > Devon”
            Please explain

          • Prom King

            LOL we’ve had this conversation! Anyway, although I do understand and respect your perspective on Devon:

            Ryan: found hidden Super Idol, eliminated Roark & Ali, found hidden Immunity

            Devon: Ben Double Agent Plan, and I’m reaching there a bit. But I will give it to him.

            I think it will be hard for Devon to list specific accomplishments that came solely from him or him and a partner. However, he can certainly talk about how he’s been a part of most strategy discussions. And he has played an impressive social game in that he’s liked well enough and has voted with the majority in every or nearly every vote (as you pointed out to me a couple days ago – important info). But those things don’t translate as bullet points on a resume listing tangible accomplishments

            The hard part for Ryan is that all of his accomplishments occurred pre-merge. As Sherri Biethman and others have demonstrated, pre-merge may as well be invisible when it comes to how the jury looks at resumes. Still, it is worth something to me, and that’s why I rank Devon lower than Ryan. In my eyes, Devon is a social player who thinks he is a strategic player. In reality, Devon has followed other people’s leads. Everything he’s done can be linked back to alliances originally generated by Ryan then Lauren then Chrissy. He goes with the flow. Do juries reward that? Sometimes, witness MIchele’s win. But his lack of strategic accomplishments in relation to Ryan is pretty clear to me.

          • Max_Jets

            We have, but not specifically for Ryan! I guess I think of Ryan being completely in the dark for two rounds as a stain on a resume. Same for an idol misplay – worse than not finding an idol. But that’s just another difference in opinion. I don’t think Ryan deserves a whole lot of credit for eliminating Roark and Ali – I think of it as more of a Chrissy move with the Ali vote as course correcting Ryan’s mistake – but I think if you count those you need to give Devon the Patrick vote as the edit showed him being the one leaning in that direction over Lauren, a decision which paid off due to Lauren’s relevance to his game in the mid merge. I see your points though, Devon’s entire game lacks specific targets which is probably the biggest piece of the resume view of Survivor.

          • Prom King

            I’m glad you mentioned that Devon called Patrick’s boot because I forgot about that.

            Okay, going by accomplishment bullet points, I’d say Devon: 1 (Patrick boot) + 1 (Ben Double Agent) = 2
            Ryan: 1 (found advantage) + 2 (eliminated Roark and Ali WITH Chrissy – I don’t mind giving ownership of eliminations to more than one person if they were both key to the decision) + 1 (found hidden Immunity) – 1 (blindsided by JP vote. he was also blindsided by other votes, but since those surprises didn’t necessarily hurt him, I don’t actually hold it against him) = 3
            So Ryan 3 > Devon 2

            But honestly, just typing that all out makes me realize how silly and subjective this perspective is. It’s fun for me because I love tracking accomplishments so that I can compare and contrast with current or former players. Total Virgo. But certainly each jury member will have a different perspective on what a resume item should or should not be, based on their own subjective experience and how butthurt they are by the final 3. Pre-merge accomplishments are basically invisible, so I can go on and on about Ryan’s 3 points, but that’s meaningless to most jury members. They are reacting to what’s hot and how heated they got over certain moves – usually recent ones.

            That’s why, in the end, I’ve come to the sad conclusion that Ryan has far less a hope to win than Devon, despite in my eyes having more accomplishments.

          • Maritimer

            I don’t know that all pre-merge accomplishments are invisible. David saving Jessica would have been lauded by the GenX jurors I would think, if he had made it. Given credit or not though, Ryan’s issue with credit the Roark/Ali boot is that there are only two other people who know how that went down. One is Chrissy, would I would say there is like a 75% chance that if he’s in FTC, she’s with him and the other is JP, who doesn’t talk.

          • purplerockandy

            LOL at finding an envelope that only two people knew existed as being an impressive resume item.

          • Prom King

            Per Joe there were three people! That’s one more than two! There are levels of impressiveness! Take your LOL and shove it!

          • How are you reaching a bit on Devon forming the double agent plan?! It wasn’t subtext, it was text. It was on the show! It wasn’t a secret scene!

            Devon also cut Ryan as his #1 ally when it was clear Ryan was trying to play him. Then he picked up Ashley as his #1 ally, but cut her in order to save himself. In the process, he aligned with Ryan again because he hadn’t been a total dick to Ryan when explaining his initial betrayal. He told Ryan point blank that Ryan’s disloyalty had made him nervous.

          • Prom King

            I feel like I’m reaching because I don’t think it ended up doing much and it wasn’t particularly noticeable as a move coming from anyone but Ben. I’m reaching on even calling it a move. Also, we know he came up with it, but unless he claims it, jury may think it was Ben’s move. Still, I will give it to him because it was definitely something and it didn’t waste Lauren’s extra vote (which was still eventually wasted…).

            I don’t see his cutting Ryan as a particularly great move because what did it accomplish? Core Fore lasted 6 days. How did cutting Ashley save himself? He wasn’t a target. Instead he just betrayed Ashley and then acted smug about it, as if it was his plan rather than a plan that Chrissy drove and that he begrudgingly accepted.

            I don’t think he’s a bad player and if he’s up against Chrissy and Ryan, I can now sadly see him winning against either. To me, that’s a win simply because he’s a likable guy and not Chrissy. He made shifting alliances, which is interesting, but was mainly following other people’s leads, outside Ben Double Agent plan. A win by Devon over Chrissy is like a win by Michele over Aubry (*ducks*). Likable person with few moves wins over strategic person who didn’t manage jury successfully. I get it, but I’m not rooting for it.

          • So just to be clear: Chrissy gets the credit for the Ashley vote, but Devon doesn’t get credit for the Ben plan?

            Do you remember the episode where Devon tells Ben to pretend he’s still with the other side? Ben wasn’t the only one there when Devon did that. It’s possible Devon even told the rest of his alliance about that plan, but we didn’t see that on TV, and I’m just going on what the show actually gave us.

            That plan allowed them to take over the game with a group of 4 when there were still 9 left. That took strategic thinking. It was a plan that only managed to fail because Lauren- against all odds- screwed it up. We don’t blame Boston Rob for screwing up the vote split in HvV- we blame Tyson. Lauren’s incompetence is not Devon’s fault.

            As discussed on the podcast, cutting Ashley saves Devon because joining Ashley and Ben to vote Mike results in a 3-3 tie wherein Devon and Ryan end up drawing rocks.

            A Chrissy win makes no sense unless this jury gives far too much weight to challenge performances, which is the one area that Chrissy has done very well.

          • Prom King

            I think you misunderstand. I AM giving Devon credit for Ben plan. I’m not that enthusiastic about it, but in the end I’m giving it to him. That’s what I literally said! “I will give it to him.” I was just explaining my hesitation. In my post where I described my silly point system, Devon got a point for that.

            Was that the reason the Core Four took over the game for 6 days though? I dunno. I give more credit to Lauren for that because she brought them all together. (Just as I blame Lauren for messing it all up.) Three of the Core Four could have still voted out JP by recruiting Joe and Mike to help them, no matter where Ben’s vote went and whether or not there was a Ben plan. I see the effectiveness of Ben plan contributing more to making the Joe elimination so easy (and fun). I guess I could try to give Devon credit for Ben plan making Joe elimination happen, but Joe was a target because of Ben, not Devon.

            I get where you are coming from with the avoiding rocks scenario and how that actually saved him. Good point. But more important to me is that this was Chrissy’s plan and that plan’s fruition wasn’t good for Devon. He had to enact a plan that had him blindside an ally who was never targeting him and who he could perhaps have beat in a final three. He avoided rocks but I don’t think that was a good look or particularly good strategy for him. Certainly no point earned for cutting her! Point goes to Chrissy for eliminating someone who she had no alliance with and whose continued presence in the game makes Devon more powerful.

            Still, I’m not holding my breath for a Chrissy win since my money’s on Ben. I do think she has a shot if she is up against Ryan and Mike, but then I also think that that final three configuration is also Mike’s biggest chance to win. (Would the Healers automatically all vote for Mike? I really don’t know.)

          • Max_Jets

            Hey, me again, keeping up the Devense (apologies for this terrible “joke”)

            “Joe was a target because of Ben, not Devon”
            “this was Chrissy’s plan”
            These are both true statements, but I personally make Devon look better than the Heroes you mentioned, ESPECIALLY Ben. Ben needs to target Joe because he can’t get along with Joe. Chrissy targets Ashley in part because she is not a great person for her to work with – several people are not good for Chrissy to work with. Devon has so many potential alliances that it makes his own choice of target way less important, so he is able to let others take the lead.
            But let’s look more closely at the Joe vote. Would you not give credit to Devon for seemingly shutting down Ashley and Lauren’s proposal to take out Ben? I suspect he would have done the same at final 7 before that got blown up.

            “He had to enact a plan that had him blindside an ally”
            One of several allies, but one that I would argue makes his position weaker in the game. He and Ashley are a known pair (and would be a known pair regardless of their talk at the final 7 immunity challenge), and his most dangerous final 5 scenario involves him and Ashley both being there when Ashley is immune.

            “who was never targeting him”
            No one is targeting Devon. To me, this wouldn’t be that different from criticizing Kim for taking out Kat in One World. I might even say that Kim’s decision was more questionable (though still not questionable, as she’s perfect), since it allowed the possibility for Alicia’s trio to go against Kim. I don’t mean to suggest that Devon is close to Kim status, but both of them had several options to go with. This doesn’t hurt him.

            “and who he could perhaps have beat in a final three.”
            We still do not know what the jury thinks of anyone. I personally believe Devon could beat a number of people in the final 3, especially the two people he just joined a final 3 plan with, but we will of course have to see.

          • Prom King

            It’s funny that I’m in the position of being the main person speaking against a Devon win, because I actually like his character and really appreciate what he’s brought to the season. I value the show for characters more than strategy, so it’s not like Devon is problematic to me. But I’ve spoken against him so I guess I will continue to carry the torch.

            As far as Ben goes, I’m trying to see through the jury’s eyes. An imperfect strategy on my part, I know. But although we the viewers see Ben’s attack on Joe as personally rather than strategically motivated… consider Joe the jury member. He has an ego and Ben gratified that ego by targeting and removing him. Now he can think he was a threat and that what he has said all along – Ben is dangerous! – was proven right by Ben removing him. Jurors see things through their own experience, not through what the viewers have seen. Now some jurors may understand that Ben was enacting some petty revenge by removing Joe… but they also know that Joe was actually Ben’s enemy, so it also makes sense that Ben would remove. Ben getting rid of Joe is not a bad look for Ben.

            Chrissy targets Ashley in part because she is not a great person for her to work with – several people are not good for Chrissy to work with… No one is targeting Devon.

            LOL definitely true! Chrissy has made enemies and doesn’t play well with others, while Devon is a glorious Disney prince. I’m pretty convinced that Devon would beat Chrissy.

            Would you not give credit to Devon for seemingly shutting down Ashley and Lauren’s proposal to take out Ben?

            I’m glad you noticed that because that was an especially fun and ironic part of that scene… Ben walked in as Devon was trying to shut down any talk about voting Ben out! That’s worth another LOL. Poor Devon, no good deed goes unpunished I guess. But no, I wouldn’t give him any credit for that because it went nowhere after Ben got riled up. And Ben getting riled up put both Ben and Devon in a corner, Ben’s idol was used, boom. I don’t see calming down an ally from making a rash move as worth any strategy credits, particularly since things went boom and he was left flustered after Ben correctly played his idol.

            his most dangerous final 5 scenario involves him and Ashley both being there when Ashley is immune

            I dunno. I think Ashley would strive to take him with her (as long as his new alliance hasn’t been outed) and I think Devon would beat her in the end. Basically I think having Ashley around always benefits Devon. If this final five were to happen, I think it is either Ben or Mike out, depending on who that fifth person is.

            I personally believe Devon could beat a number of people in the final 3

            Oh I agree. If I was looking at who the winner could be solely from the Jury Likes You perspective, I think Devon beats everyone, including Ben. But I’m also looking at it from the Personal Content perspective, and since Devon has received none, I don’t see Devon winning or even making final three (where he would logically win). And if I’m wrong, I will probably see his win as a Michele type win. At least until I rewatch the season and notice all these moves everyone has been talking about!

            I don’t mind being wrong and am fully prepared to eat crow and spit out mea culpas in the unlikely event that he does win. Even if Devon does win, I actually have enjoyed him as a character a lot more than I ever did Michele, so I may be disappointed but I won’t be bitter. But I just don’t see it happening…

          • Max_Jets

            I agree that Ben doesn’t look bad to the jury. I do think Ben has a great shot at winning, but I value awareness and intent at the very top when I evaluate winners and Ben taking Joe out for pettiness sinks him as a player to me. But my larger point was to defend Devon for not having targets, not to attack other players – that was just a nice bonus. Don’t worry though, I am well aware that Devon could get the Hannah treatment. My greatest fear for the season is that the jury does not understand his game because they already wrote him off and didn’t try to understand his game.

            Confusingly worded on my end, but I meant to ask if you would give Devon credit for shutting down the plan to take out Ben at final 8 when they ended up taking out Joe.

            “particularly since things went boom and he was left flustered after Ben correctly played his idol”
            Correctly played his idol after Devon forced his hand… Though I think we’ve covered this already and we’ve done a good job of not going in circles in these discussions, so why start now?

            I agree that Ashley would have been loyal to Devon and that Devon would beat her, but if the final 5 is Mike/Ryan/Chrissy/Devon/Ashley then I think there’s a good chance Mike/Ryan/Chrissy take out Devon in the case of Ashley’s immunity. Or if Ben IS there but gets another idol – though I would hope the producers don’t get this silly with idols. I think Devon removing the target of being a pair (and a likable one, at that) at final 6 is good.

          • Prom King

            I meant to ask if you would give Devon credit for shutting down the plan to take out Ben at final 8 when they ended up taking out Joe.

            But not taking Ben out ending up destroying that alliance, so I wouldn’t. At this point with Ben acting like a rabid dog, Devon may be sighing while thinking that the get-Ben-out plan wasn’t so bad after all.

            Correctly played his idol after Devon forced his hand… Though I think we’ve covered this already and we’ve done a good job of not going in circles in these discussions, so why start now?

            LOL Be patient with me! I’m fighting this battle on three fronts, it’s hard to keep track of what I’ve said to which person! Certainly not trying to have a circular discussion.

          • Max_Jets

            I do think not taking out Ben was the right call, as Joe had said he was ready to flip to Ryan and Chrissy. I also think the way the Ben situation spiraled out of control was pretty unconventional and could have happened with anyone – Joe, for example. & I’m of the opinion that Ben in the game has made a good shield for Devon.

            Haha, I wasn’t pointing a finger at you. If anything, I was the one bringing us back in circles with my counterpoint because I think you had previously disagreed with my take on it.

          • purplerockandy

            Chrissy at second best winner chances. This is a very scientific examination Dr Prom King. Shocking how it completely aligns with your level of fandom.

          • Prom King

            Your level of antipathy towards her continues to amuse me. But then you’ve had an ax to grind against her ever since she didn’t make the big move you wanted first episode. Tsk, tsk. Grudge holders, what can you do with them.

            Although, yes, that is a very surprising coincidence! I was completely shocked.

          • purplerockandy

            I mean I guess that explains my opinion of Chrissy. Now how do you explain every other member of the majority negative opinion against her? Including that which is shared by many of the people who have played this season with her.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Do you ever shout what you’re typing while you’re typing it?

          • Prom King

            I read that as more intensely sarcastic sneering rather than shouting.

          • purplerockandy

            You get me.

          • purplerockandy

            Nah. The shouting is for the audience.

          • Prom King

            I’ve never denied that she’s terrible at making people feel good as players, and so yeah, she sucks at jury management, which is the key part of winning a game. And some people rub other people the wrong way. Chrissy rubbed a lot of fellow players and a lot of people online the wrong way. I’m not sure I need to explain anything because these are all facts.

            My opinion on Chrissy is that she’s a delightfully passive-aggressive villain with a lot that I find sympathetic about her as well, and she’s one of the few people this season who has made moves. She fascinates me as a player and as a person. I’ve never denied her debits; I also recognize her virtues, which is something you appear incapable of doing. It’s all or nothing with you.

          • prettyboyprobst

            I think Ryan >>> Devon on personal content is at least two > too much.

            Generally I would say it’s easier to find compelling personal content for older players that have more going in their lives than for dreamy beach guys like Devon, so I’m not too worried about that. We do know that he’s happy just making enough to pay the bills while doing what he enjoys, that he likes to smile and surf and just be that beautiful beacon of light for everyone in his life, and similiarly weak stuff. But do we know that much more about Ryan?

            I’m also not convinced that he’s that much more well liked by the jury than Chrissy, who mainly has a few people who really don’t like her, but many others that I’m not at all clear about.

            In the end I’m still pretty much in line with your winner projections and would only switch Chrissy and Devon in the order (and have a healthy gap between them – maybe they’re even F3). I could also see Devon leapfrogging Ben again for me over the course of the finale, but right now I have Ben ahead.

            Overall I really enjoyed that editing style of this season that makes it hard to rule out secondary contenders like Devon and Chrissy, or even the likes of Mike and Lauren.

            Anyway, great back-and-forth you guys had here, that I missed. Enjoy the finale!

          • Diego Armando

            I think Devon and Mike beat him, but I could see some people like (Lauren, Mike, JP, Joe) being pissed off at Ben enough to vote for non-offensive Ryan.

          • Maritimer

            That’s true. It depends how they come down on the Mike Holloway question for Ben: Though we hate him, he kicked our ass, so do we hate him less then the rest of these people?

          • StormofCuteness

            You really think Joe, who proports to be all about game play, wouldn’t vote for Ben? I also think Lauren is less likely to vote for Ryan over Ben. Voting for Ben makes her ouster an important move.

          • Diego Armando

            Probably he would vote Ben, but I could see Ben getting into a fight with him at the final tribal.

          • StormofCuteness

            I think Ben is a bit more saavy than you give him credit for–but I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

  • Max_Jets

    Thanks for the shout out! I will celebrate by continuing to shine a Devon on the best player this season.
    I know people had floated that someone like Devon did not have to worry about a split vote backfiring and would have no reason to correct the plan. This might be going over the top to defend him, but does Devon really have to worry about Ben finding an idol? He is not Ben’s target, seems to be at the bottom of the list for a back up target for the other players, and he might even like having Ben there as a shield.

    • Mike Hirsch

      Shine a Devon. I like that.

    • purplerockandy

      He needs to worry about Ben finding an idol if he doesn’t want to go to the Finals with Ben.

      • Max_Jets

        Sure, but he hasn’t exactly been an immunity threat. Should he be predicting the new final 4 format?

        • Maritimer

          No, you’re right. He’s arguably following the Adam strategy (intentionally or not) and keeping Ben around until F4 would work for Devon under the old format, because he’s the clear target if Ben is gone, I would think. Devon has absolutely no way of knowing about the new format

        • purplerockandy

          The closer you get to the end, the less of an immunity threat you need to be. Michele Fitzgerald ended up being an immunity threat in that short a span of time.

          • Max_Jets

            Michele already won immunity at final 7 and got a pass at final 5. Having Ben and Mike in the final 5 looks like the ideal set up for Chrissy and Ryan to stay true to Devon’s final 3 plan. Does that involve some risk? Yes, but that doesn’t make him wrong. Having Ben gone as a target involves risk for him too.

          • purplerockandy

            Not having Ashley in that final 5 goes against Devon’s finals plans tho.

          • Max_Jets

            In my head, having Ashley in the final 5 AND not having Ben in the final 5 puts Devon in the most possible danger considering Ashley is likely to win immunity. If Devon doesn’t see it that way, then my argument is irrelevant.

          • Other Scott

            Jenna Morasca is the best example of this – the one thing that was going to beat Rob that season is if Jenna managed to win the last two immunities, which was a good bet for him to make.

            And….she won the last two immunities.

  • BadPlayer91

    One thought I had about this episode and the season overall; it seems kinda like lazy Survivor. It seems like these players are so convinced they are playing amazing, flawless Survivor that they are being lazy and not putting in the effort to actually play the game. The result is we have confessionals where they seem to talk about doing the right things, but then talk themselves out of doing it. They talk about the importance of keeping Ben from getting immunity, but none of them put in the effort to do it. When on the bottom Ryan and Chrissy attempted to sway people to their side, but it seemed lazy and lacking an effort. Maybe this is just a side effect of their idiocy, or of the edit, but it has felt to me like they think their game is so good that they aren’t actually trying.

    • the sky is falling

      I think it’s just a survivor superfan issue. This season is…. Fine I guess. Now that it’s almost over, I really think it’s just an average season. We have seen better but we have also seen worse. No one is particularly an asshole this season, there’s been no bullying or awful people like in Kaoh Rong or game changers, or one world.

  • BadPlayer91

    Also, the pun game in this episode is on point. Actual quotes “it provides him [Ben] with no BEN-efit” and “he [Ben] is so hell-BEN-T”

    👏👏👏

  • Prom King

    “Chrissy doesn’t see gender”

    Because she just dislikes everyone. Favorite part so far!

    • DrVanNostrand

      She doesn’t just literally dislike everyone. I think you’re being a bit dramatic with that statement, and I don’t appreciate that kind of hyperbole. Could you tone it down a little bit? Some of us are trying to avoid having any kind of fun out here.

      • Prom King

        That’s true. “Disdainful disinterest” doesn’t necessarily equal “dislike”. My apologies!

  • the sky is falling

    Wow, no featured comment on the main podcast post. These commenters suck.

    • Purple Rock Podcast: The place were everybody can suck but no one feels bad because the players on this season of Survivor suck more.

      • the sky is falling

        true, my comments may suck bigtime, but not as much as this season

        EDIT: I have been here long enough that I know Purple Rock loves when you insult them or the commentariat.

  • Maritimer

    I just got around to finishing the podcast and I have two comments I think haven’t been covered here:

    1) I agree with you guys that I think we (definitely including myself) may have over-interpreted Probst revealing the tie rule last season because I think your two scenarios for a tie are the only two and I don’t see a world where Devon and Ben are there together and I don’t want to consider the possibility of a Mike-Ryan-Chrissy FTC.

    2) How was nobody commented on the music choice at the end? Love it.

    • Prom King

      That closing song was so satisfying.

  • Prom King

    I’ve been thinking about my girl Chrissy today, because no one else wants to, and I realized that I’ve been relating her to certain players incorrectly. For most of the season I’ve seen her as a villainous version of Mom Template, like a malevolent, socially tone deaf version of Holly or Dawn. A Sherri. But why should I even put her in the mom category, just because she’s a mom. I haven’t seen any mothering from her at all, despite Ben’s put-down.

    I realized that she’s actually the most similar to two other wonderful villains: Ami from Vanuatu and Savage from Cambodia. All three were bosses but nowhere near as in control as they thought they were, certainly tone deaf in how they talked to and about people, great with the challenges, occasionally good with strategy but often inflexible and passive-aggressive, and apparently lacking in any sense of humor or ability to understand how they are coming across to other players. Three great villains who were disliked by much of fandom because of their condescension and spitefulness. Three great characters!

    • Alycia Swift

      That’s it!