Purple Rock Survivor Podcast: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers finale “Million Dollar Night”

John and Andy finish off (phrasing) the season of  Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers.

Note: due to time constraints, this episode is less edited than usual. So listen with caution.

Purple Rock Survivor podcast: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Finale “Million Dollar Night”

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In this episode, Andy and John discuss:

  • Our feelings on the finale.
  • Lots of gloating.
  • The fire making twist. We gotta get into it, but maybe not in the way you expect.
  • Will a player who survived due to the fire making twist ever be accepted by fandom at large as legitimate?
  • How do we feel about Ben as a winner, irrespective of how he got there?
  • Why we think people are rejecting him (besides the twist).
  • Laughing at the idea that Chrissy was screwed.
  • We in here talking about challenge wins. I mean, listen, we’re talking about challenge wins, not a social game, not a strategic game, not a good game, we talking about challenge wins.
  • So if this twist doesn’t happen, does Chrissy beat Devon?
  • Devon’s big move of the episode and what it says about his game.
  • Final thoughts on Ryan.
  • Final thoughts on Mike.
  • Our thoughts on the new FTC format now that we’ve had two versions of it.
  • The incredibly short reunion and whether or not its even a necessary part of Survivor fandom anymore.
  • Putting the Heroic, Healing, and Hustle moments gimmick to bed.
  • Early ranking of this season and winner.
  • Thank yous.
  • Offseason plans.
  • #goattaint

If you have questions or comments, @ us on Twitter, or send us an email (purplerockpodcast at gmail).

  • MrBurkesButtons

    Way to fight the good fight, gents. Thank you for another season of thoughtful commentary and amusing tangents.

  • Mike Hirsch

    I think it’s absolute horseshit that Ryan didn’t win, and let me tell you why. First, I need to immediately digress and talk a little bit about everyone’s favorite Christmas movie, Die Hard.
    In Die Hard, our protagonist, John Die Hard, is a man out of place in a world he didn’t create: Los Angeles. As John himself is fond of saying, “*heavy sigh* California…” This isn’t where John is at his most comfortable. He’s used to the simple things in life: busting the skulls of crime people. Suddenly, John is at an office Christmas party where his estranged wife Mrs. Die Hard (fairly certain she is never named in the movie) works, and terrorists take over the building! Now John needs to save not only his marriage, but Mrs. Die Hard’s very life as well! Talk about a rough day at work! Eventually, John improves his odds of winning the day by killing each and every terrorist (except for that one guy he just knocks out at the end), and progresses to the final battle. He even walks barefoot over glass at one point, which shows his dedication to survival. John won’t let things like terrorists, an FBI doublecross, or the Asian Dawn slow him down, or sway him from his goal. And in the end, he wins!
    I bring all this up because Ryan is exactly like John Die Hard: he finds himself in a place he’s never been before, which in Ryan’s case, is “surrounded by women.” To Ryan’s credit, he manages to stay strong during this period and drives a few votes, eliminating a bunch of early players due primarily to his alarming challenge inadequacy. He managed to find the Al Powell to his John Die Hard in Chrissy, and his Argyle in Devon, and got himself all the way to final 3! He deserved to win for that alone!
    This is the hill that I will die (hard) on.

    • sharculese

      I’ve never seen Die Hard. Is it better than The Phantom Menace?

      • Mike Hirsch

        I’ll let you decide that.

      • the sky is falling

        is that even possible?

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Let me counter with this: In Home Alone (the better Xmas movie than Die Hard), our protagonist Macaulay, through no fault of his own, is abandoned by his friends and loved ones. Left to fend for himself, Makalay must protect himself and his domain from two bad, mean thieves who look to rob his house and ruin the lives of Micaley’s family. Using his own ingenuity, some household items, and the help of a friendly old man, Mackalley manages to beat the thieves and send them packing. There is also exactly one fire that is relevant to the plot of the story.

      So Lauren is played by Catherine O’Hara, Probst is played by Roberts Blossom, and Ryan and Chrissy are played by Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern (if you go by height) or by Daniel Stern and Joe Pesci (if you go by personality).

      • FreshFromClintucky

        Let me counter as well, in A Christmas Carole, which is basically the official Christmas movie, Ryan is obviously Scrooge, and Scrooge is the protagonist. Ben is obviously the Ghost of Christmas Future, showing Ryan his own demise at Final Tribal Council. The Ghost of Christmas Past is Devon, who was able to look through all of Ryan’s many, many past mistakes. The Ghost of Christmas Past is Cole because he eats a lot? Sure, yeah, we’ll do that.

      • sharculese

        Who is John Candy in this scenario?

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Cole, who lives in a van.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Another counter. Ryan, as you say, was surrounded by women. But he and Chrissy did their best to get him out of such a difficult situation

    • purplerockandy

      EVERYONE!!! IMMEDIATELY CEASE AND DESIST WITH DIE HARD TALK UNTIL, SAY, A WEEK FROM NOW!!!

      FOR… REASONS.

      • Mike Hirsch

        Ok, so Ryan’s game was like my second favorite Christmas movie: Predator. Arnold Schwarzenegger stars as John “Dutch” Predator, a special forces soldier or something. Ryan, just like the monster in the movie (let’s call it the Hunter), has the ability to camouflage himself into not being a target, whilst simultaneously taking out much bigger threats with his shoulder cannon called “strategy.” Ryan’s gonna have some fun tonight! He should have won.

    • TheForRealDeal

      Well played.

  • FreshFromClintucky

    Ryan should have won because Devon voted for him. Devon is a bright, beautiful light, and anyone who he is willing to grace with his vote should win at the very least a million dollars, if not more.

    • Emu.tional

      truly

  • Somewhatbored

    LMAO wow at y’all obnoxiously gloating over the fact that “edgic” got it wrong over Ben (I actually had him as my pick, although I wholly concede to being a tie truther) when you guys couldn’t see Michele coming.

    Glass houses and rocks and yada yada yada.

    • Diego Armando

      We are the Worst Armchair Survivor Podcast of all time, so what do you expect from us?

    • sharculese

      The difference is that while the Michele Truther argument was overdetermined, it was always true that she had a path to victory, and the only disagreement was over how likely it was.

      The idea that Chrissy was winning was extremely silly, just based on what the show was telling us about Chrissy, and was and still does deserve to be made fun of.

      • Somewhatbored

        The idea that Chrissy would win is not as absurd as thinking anyone other than Michele would win Kaoh Rong.

        I think it was somewhat plausible if you squint that Chrissy could win this season (but I was definitively on the Ben train very early on).

        This podcast had very little actual interesting discussion or debate going on just a whole load of “I’m awesome, we’re awesome etc.” It’s nauseating and not something I’d expect from anyone over the age of 16. Frankly embarrassing.

        • sharculese

          I’m sorry you feel that way.

          • Is it bad that I kinda like this guy and hope he stays?

          • purplerockandy

            Nah, it makes one difference between us and them pretty clear: we actually enjoy and can appreciate when someone calls us on our bullshit. Unlike those other touchy motherfuckers.

            If you can’t see how reddit needs to be taken down a peg every once and awhile, I don’t know what to tell you.

          • Somewhatbored

            Reddit is a collection of people. Obviously some/the majority of the people on reddit are probably massive douchebags but I think the us vs them mentality is just immature.

            As for enjoying it I was listening to the Kaoh Rong podcast and that’s not the tone I heard at all. In your Kaoh Rong finale podcast you basically waited like a minute before you started moaning about how Michele truthers were somehow more wrong then you were.

          • purplerockandy

            Yeah, that was a neat trick, I have to admit.

          • sharculese

            It’s on brand.

        • purplerockandy

          EXTREMELY embarrassing.

        • Violina23

          Your trolling will only make them stronger… kinda like ghostbusters

      • prettyboyprobst

        accidental upvote. I do not condone this message.

        (Sure, it’s arguable that there were more reasons shown to feel good about Aubry’s chances than what was on display to make us believe in Chrissy’s (debatable – if it appeared that way, that’s probably because Aubry seemed to be the better player), but you just don’t get to bash edgic at every opportunity and then make statements like that.
        I mean, you can do it, but why would you? Silly based on what? Editing and logic? “Edgic is stupid. Here, let me prove it with my superior edgic”. In what world is that a winning argument?)

        • sharculese

          It’s not edgic to say that people didn’t like Chrissy. It’s listening to what people were saying about Chrissy.

    • How did you enjoy Spencer’s victory in Cagayan, though? Did you think the edit made it too obvious? A little too CPP3?

      • Somewhatbored

        Wasn’t a fan back in Cagayan. I’m a relative newcomer. I absolutely loved the fact that Tony triumphed in Cagayan and he’s one of my two or three favorites to play the game. I have no idea who I would’ve thought won.

        My problem with your podcast is it contains literally no insightful/interesting discussion and is basically just a whole load of you guys jerking yourself off smugly.

        In any case thinking Michele wouldn’t win Kaoh Rong is more embarrassing then thinking Chrissy will win.

        • purplerockandy

          “A whole load of two guys jerking themselves off smugly”

          Care to leave that in a iTunes comment? That would be a big help.

        • Andy is far too selfish to ever jerk me off.

          • Somewhatbored

            Lol.

        • I can at least see why you, in particular, would not see that Chrissy’s social game was particularly awful.

          • Somewhatbored

            Por que ?

          • Jokes.

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        If you are referring to the tinman from star war 1, which I think you are, I believe his name is actually CP30.

    • Max_Jets

      I know Chrissy technically ended up at the top of reddit’s edgic chart (with 3 contenders total, I should add), but I saw hardly any confidence in it in the comments.

      • sharculese

        It’s like deep down they know that the part at the bottom is just magical thinking.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    May not be a great finale but this ranks highly in my prp finale podcasts, probably only behind Cagayan and Second Chance

  • Diego Armando

    I think Devon beats Chrissy handily at the finals, likely 7-1 (I think she gets Mike).

  • Blurry Denzel

    So last year I posted my top ten albums of 2016. It felt appropriate with all the music talk in the podcast that season. No so much this time around but I already started a tradition so here we go.

    Blurry Denzel Favorite 10 albums of 2017

    1. Kendrick Lamar- Damn
    2. SZA- CTRL
    3. Kelela- Take Me Apart
    4. Jay Z- 4:44
    5. Lorde- Melodrama
    6. Kehlani- SweetSexySavage
    7. Vince Staples- Big Fish Theory
    8. N.E.R.D- No One Ever Really Dies
    9. dvsn- Morning After
    10. Khalid- American Teen

    • Max_Jets

      I didn’t do a very good job keeping up with music this year, but some standouts for me:
      Charli XCX – Pop 2
      Lorde – Melodrama
      Gorillaz – Humanz
      Kesha – Rainbow

      • Blurry Denzel

        Enjoyed all those albums. I probably should’ve included Kesha. I had the pleasure of seeing her in concert this past October. Really good.

        • Max_Jets

          That’s good to hear! I definitely did not expect

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I also didn’t keep up with music this year. I liked, in no real order:
        Kendrick Lamar – Damn
        St. Vincent – Masseduction
        Aimee Mann – Mental Illness
        Beck – Colors
        The New Pornographers – Whiteout Conditions
        Jay Z – 4:44
        Foo Fighters – Concrete and Gold

        I expect to like, but haven’t even bothered to listen to yet:
        N.E.R.D – No One Ever Really Dies
        Sleigh Bells – Kid Kruschev

        I was perfectly indifferent to:
        U2 – Songs of Experience

        I was hugely disappointed by:
        Arcade Fire – Everything Now
        Feist – Pleasure

        It’s a cheat to call it a 2017 release, but i probably listened to the Baby Driver soundtrack more than anything else this year.

        • My only comment is Foo Fighters!!!!

        • Max_Jets

          Whiteout Conditions was good! I don’t listen to it all the way through that much, but the title track is one of my favorite songs of the year.

    • sharculese

      Only thing I listened to this year was Brand New’s swan song, which was very good, even if ugh, Jesse Lacey why did you have to turn out to be a creep. I probably should have figured it out from your music.

      I didn’t even listen to the new Mountain Goats.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        That fucked me up, man.

      • Max_Jets

        I don’t know why I’m so taken with it, but the song No Control is just lovely.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I didn’t listen to enough new stuff for a top 10, but fuck everyone, After Laughter by Paramore is my album of the year.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I heard none of those. My top three were:

      3. Damaged Bug- Bunker Funk
      2. King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard & Mild High Club- Sketches of Brunswick East
      1. Joan of Arc- He’s got the Whole this Land is Your Land in his Hands

      • sharculese

        God I want to like Joan of Arc so bad, because I love Cap’n Jazz, but something about them just doesn’t do it for me.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I’ve heard that Tim intentionally tries to write music that people will hate.

    • Super duper fan

      I’m a music noob, so I plan on listening to more music next year. But Melodrama (the only album I heard from your list so far) is fantastic.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    So how the hell did I not make top 50 in comments ? Wierd

    • purplerockandy

      Work harder next season son.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Would changing my name halfway have affected it?

        • Yes.

        • purplerockandy

          Apparently yes.

  • Max_Jets

    I don’t really think the show does have a problem with strong players getting taken out at final 4. Yes, great players get taken out there, but is it a problem? Would we have enjoyed Philippines more if, say, Malcolm won instead of Denise? I don’t know that we would. The idea of Malcolm and others as fallen angels has some appeal to it, does it not? But maybe I’m just saying that because it’s what we’re used to. Either way, getting taken out at 4 because you’re the biggest threat does show some flaw in your game. That’s what was really smart about Adam’s game, whether we want to give him credit or not. That’s what was so great about Cirie’s 3-2-1 move. Burn goats earlier, hide behind bigger targets, play down your threat level. Chrissy thought Devon was a dumb surfer bro pretty much until the end of the game. That’s awesome and that’s interesting! Not revealing yourself as a big target is part of the game, and if a great player can’t maintain that to the finals then who cares? We can still appreciate their wonderful game AND enjoy the actual vote out because the social dynamics are what makes Survivor interesting (I think, anyways). On the RHAP with Aubry and the Big Brother live feed correspondents, Brent talked about how exciting it was when Aubry got Tai to vote with her at final 4. And it was!

    Ignore the terrible vote splits and questionable social play. Is Ben’s path to the end INTERESTING? Regardless of how dumb the other players were for not looking for idols, do you find it interesting to see him dig up an idol at final 5 and play it? If you do, good! If you don’t, why not criticize it? Because I think it’s boring as fuck! And it’s a direction Survivor keeps moving in, where relationships are no longer very important. We had 2 spots in the final 3 taken up by people that could not be voted out since final 6 (or in Ben’s case, final 7) and the third place was taken up by the “goat”, Ryan. It’s not about Ben or Devon or Chrissy or any of the players this season – it’s a set up that the show is actively encouraging with their idol placement and the new format change. Getting to the end on social bonds and strategy wasn’t really on the table here, and I think that’s a shame because it’s why I watch the show.

    • purplerockandy

      You’re thinking more of the players. Think about the televised product. Think about what it would be like if, just once, the finals were competitive.

      Now think about what it would be like if they were OFTEN competitive. It would be more interesting. Not about who wins or deserves or clever strategy. Just… what if that entire last 30 minutes of the show was filled with suspense?

      • Max_Jets

        I am thinking of the televised product. I almost always find final tribal interesting. I don’t find this endgame interesting. I don’t think a more competitive tribal is worth what we lose.

        • purplerockandy

          And that is where we differ (which is fine!). I rarely ever find final tribal interesting. It sometimes can have some interest for reasons not pertaining to the obvious outcome (especially with this new format), but not usually.

    • purplerockandy

      “And it’s a direction Survivor keeps moving in, where relationships are no longer very important.”

      I think people might be getting a little too worked up over a future where the winner of the season finds three idols and plays them in rapid succession. What Ben did was hard and rare. And will probably be even more rare for the future now that people have seen someone do it. Social play isn’t meaningless, it just happened to be this season due to the imperfect selection of players the jury had to choose from.

      • Max_Jets

        I might be a little too nervous, but I think I have cause for concern. It’s not that he played 3 idols in a row. I would be almost as bored by someone who could have booted at final 6, but then found an idol at final 5 and won the fire making which is a scenario that production seems to want to happen. I think something like that will be pretty common! And that combined with Advantagegeddon – an event that Jeff Probst somehow thinks is great – and Malcolm being voted out by people he had not been on the same tribe with happening in the same year is what makes me especially concerned. Is it possible that these things coincidentally happened in back to back seasons? Yes. But you can see how more recent production choices led to these situations.

        • prettyboyprobst

          I knew that I probably read something yesterday that got me thinking and ultimately ranting, and this (as well as JLs post above) was definitely it. I’m honestly surprised how many of the points I was ranting about, I was basically just echoing from here.

      • We got rarities the past two season where everyone was immune in one tribal council and now Ben playing the hidden immunity idol 3 tribal councils in a row. (To be slightly fair to these players they could not be with Ben when he found the second idol because he found that one after he was giving an interview to production. That being one of the only times where a contestant is by themselves.)

    • sharculese

      “And it’s a direction Survivor keeps moving in, where relationships are no longer very important.”

      This seems weird to say, given that Sarah’s game was 100% about the relationships she fostered. Every trusted Sarah, everyone told her things, everyone forgave her when she flipped, because she worked her relationships with everyone.

      • Max_Jets

        That just proves my point even more. Sarah likely would have lost Tai at fire making and been out 4th. I think relationships are still important, but that’s the direction they’re going if it’s no longer relevant in the end game and Probst DGAF so I fear it will get worse.

        • sharculese

          Probst isn’t the only one who makes decisions. At the end of the day he’s one voice. Remember how he insisted the Tyler Perry idol was great and everyone would have loved it if Spencer had found it? And yet we never saw it again?

          Let’s wait and watch how Ghost Island plays out and the reaction to it before we freak out.

          • Max_Jets

            He’s the one person in production we know the opinions of. Is it possible that we didn’t see the Tyler Perry idol because people complained as I am currently doing?

            I’m not freaking out. I’m expressing concerns about the show on a website that discusses Survivor.

          • sharculese

            I’m just saying, one is not enough for a trend.

          • Max_Jets

            I think my problems are inherent in the twist, but you’re right. They could easily end idols at 6 next season or at least stop re-hiding them at final 5, we just don’t know yet.

          • sharculese

            I wouldn’t expect Ghost Island to be any different, since they shot it not knowing there would be such a strong negative reaction to this. But if that happens again (and I’m sure at the very least they’re paying attention to Survivor facebook and Survivor twitter) they’ll change course, Probst or no Probst.

      • purplerockandy

        In fact, Sarah only had an advantage BECAUSE of her superior social game.

        • We got proof of that in this finale even.

        • prettyboyprobst

          It was so incredibly stupid of FFSDT to promise her that advantage that I have a hard time giving Sarah much credit for it (although it is true that she was the one to take advantage of that stupidity – we’re talking about the Legacy thingy, right? Or were there more advantages and I remember stuff wrong?).
          It’s not Sarah’s fault (and you could say it is even to her credit) that some of the people she was playing with were really dumb, but I always find it hard to overly praise players just because they were lucky enough to encounter stupidity.

  • purplerockandy

    Thought I had but failed to discuss on the podcast due to excessive masterbatorial congratulations:
    Imagine how this season would’ve been edited had Devon won instead? Would it have been more interesting to see a season framed around his affable good nature and relationships rather than the push/pull partnership-then-rivalry of Ben and Chrissy?

    I mean, it would almost have to be, right?

    • purplerockandy

      Actually, “interesting” might not be right. But “more enjoyable”? Probably.

      • Basically HvHvH would have been a blander MvGX, right?

        • Side Character

          I’ll take that. It’s better than what we got.

      • prettyboyprobst

        As much as we all love Devon, and maybe this is just in consequence of all the bonus content I watched over the course of the season, but I’m so ready to not hear him speak for a while.
        So yeah, that’s a tough one. Because as far as I can tell, we got just the right amount of Devon and much more would probably mean worse TV.

        Come to think of it, this season really needed a Rimmer for a winner. Or for Mike to not take a hike. I was rooting for Devon and think he would be a better winner, but solely from a TV standpoint and disregarding that it is usually extra fun to see who you’re rooting for to take the prize, I’m good with what he got. Chrissy and Ben gave us some good moments.

  • Diego Armando

    In case you were referring to me, I was not specifically complaining that the reunion did not talk to people; I maintained that this was the worst reunion because it felt like the show was just wasting time to get to the 3 hour mark.

    • purplerockandy

      Not just you. Very common opinion that it was awful and unfair.

      Note: you’re probably right on both accounts. John and I just don’t care.

      • Diego Armando

        I legitimately didn’t care if they talked to everyone. I just wanted them to do literally anything.

        • purplerockandy

          Fair.

  • sharculese

    Oh, thank god, I only had the third most comments this time.

    • purplerockandy

      I did indeed read them in order. Except that Taako was bumped out of his 9th place spot because thanking him twice would have been excessive.

      • Yeah, I didn’t add together the total comments for the previous accounts that Denzel and Taako had.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Don’t they carry over? My name change was just superficial, it’s still the same account.

          • Nope. I was actually going to tell you where you’d rank, because I still had the list in the DM I sent to Andy. But then I remembered that I deleted your old name from the list prior to sending. And I’m too lazy to go back and do it again.

        • purplerockandy

          I think they just renamed their old accounts.

          • Yes, but both names were on the top 50 list before I excluded the old names.

          • purplerockandy

            Ah.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      I was very scared of finding out my placement.

    • Were you second last time?

      • sharculese

        I’m usually second. Apparently having a serious crisis about what you’re doing with your life makes you question how much energy you feel like committing to talking about Survivor, because I’ve been mostly absent from the podcast post and I’m pretty sure most of comments have been off topic.

    • Diego Armando

      TOP 5 BABY!

  • pufflehuff

    Happy to bid farewell to this season and for a Survivor break after the Game Changers debacle. Though I rewatched an ep of Second Chances (‘We got a rat’ has a whole nother meaning after Game Changers) on the ferry home for xmas and felt nostalgic for good survivor (and really enjoyed Abi + PG’s passive-aggressive off + all the fore-shadowing.) I don’t have a whole lot to say about this season as it has been my Game Changers break but thanks for keeping on through it and congrats to Matt for winning the Outcasts League.

    AND to honour my finest pick 4 player, here’s the list that nobody asked for, a ranking of all (I think!) the Survivor Ashleys:

    5. Ashley Underwood (RI). Makes it to the bottom of the list for being mean to Andrea and for being the Boston Rob Zombie that should have known better. Her only friend in the game was Natalie T. Her only friend on the internet likes her because of a bet. Pass.

    4. Ashlee Ashby (Palau). Maybe she should be last, purely because of her placement on Ulong, the loseriest tribe ever. But you have to feel for somebody who had parents who not only used ‘ee’ in her name but thought that Ashlee was a sensible first name for an Ashby.

    3. Ashley from Samoa. She could have been Natalie White if only she hadn’t the temerity to question the Man in Charge. She played too soon – surely the progressive climate of 2017 will…actually, maybe scratch that.

    2. Ashley from this season. Maybe I’m being generous because I haven’t seen most of this season but I liked what I saw of Ashley in the double episode that I actually watched. And props for ditching a showmance with JP for a whoa!mance with Devon.

    1. Ashley from China. What she lacks in longevity she makes up for in personality and by personality I mean ‘yelling’ and ‘she’s a wrestler!’ and look, maybe being the best Ashley on Survivor isn’t so much of a high bar.

    • sharculese

      You’re gonna take some flak for ranking Ashley Underwood last.

      Not from me, though.

      Also, you don’t have to have seen most of this season to have an opinion of Ashley Nolan because she wasn’t on most of it.

      • pufflehuff

        yeah, watching the first 2 episodes + the double episode + one I can’t remember has probably given me a very skewed perspective on the season, but from dipping in here, sounds like I didn’t miss much and that Ashley didn’t exactly slay.

    • Mike Hirsch

      Ashley Underwood is from RI?! So that’s who people have been praising all this time? Wow.
      This is a good listing.

      • pufflehuff

        I can understand you forgetting most of that season – basically after Francesca leaves everything is terrible, like The Sound of Music after the wedding.

        • Mike Hirsch

          But, Climb Ev’ry Mountain!

          Also, Francesca is not high on my RI highlights, I like watching Rob run the table on that season.

          • pufflehuff

            Isn’t Climb Every Mountain before the wedding? Isn’t that what leads her back to the house? Thankfully it’ll be on TV for xmas so can check!

            Sorry, I’m a bit confused as I think you used ‘like’ in connection to RI, clearly a mistake for a discerning commentator like you.

          • Mike Hirsch

            I always thought that was when they were escaping the Nazis. I don’t know, all I know is the Lonely Goatherd sequence freaks me the hell out.

          • pufflehuff

            Truth is I wasn’t allowed to watch the end of the movie growing up (because, Nazis, I think) so I’m not sure but then when I did watch the full thing, I was like ‘this movie is too long and all the good songs are at the beginning.’

            Though yeah the goatherd bit isn’t exactly a highlight.

          • Wait. Lonely Goatherd is my jam, what is this madness???

            Proof: https://twitter.com/hurleytennis/status/918547219401314307

          • Violina23

            It’s literally 2 things!

            (First is when Maria runs away from the Von Trapps) and the second time is reprised at the end when they are escaping in the Alps.

            The weird thing about the goatherd is in the original show, “my favorite things” was sung in the beginning when Maria was nervous to leave the convent, and the goatherd was the song she sang to calm the kids down. “My favorite things” definitely works better with the kids, so the goatherd turned into that weird puppet show.

          • Violina23

            P.S. this “review” of the sound of music had me on the floor the first time I read it.

            https://tomandlorenzo.com/2007/07/musical-monday-the-sound-of-music-part-1/

            https://tomandlorenzo.com/2007/07/musical-monday-the-sound-of-music-part-2/

            My favorite quote from the end:
            “As the chorus raises their voices in inspiration, the family escapes Austria without so much as a thought for all the nuns in the abbey, who are surely either dead or imprisoned by now. The end.”

            But seriously… Read the whole thing. You won’t regret it

          • pufflehuff

            this is AMAZING. I especially love: “The Captain is pissed, but Maria’s all “Don’t give me shit, buddy. Your 16-year-old is off entering wet t-shirt contests with gay men and your 14-year-old is afraid of thunder. I don’t even think the 5-year-old can speak, let alone feed herself.”

            Also, I too had a gay boy crush on Rolf which now, thankfully, I am also over.

          • Violina23

            I love TLo so much. Check out their Musical Monday tags for more gems…

          • Rolf is everything

          • pufflehuff

            Including a Nazi, unfortunately.

          • #2017 tbh

      • sharculese

        Yes, the woman best know for being friends with Natalie Tenerelli, who swears she would have taken Rob to the end if she had won final immunity. That’s who people have been praising.

        • pufflehuff

          She did win immunity too once, I think, so you know, bow down.

        • By The Numbers

          According to exit press, Ashley would’ve beaten Rob in F3. Everybody (except David Murphy) really didn’t like Rob

          • sharculese

            Which, if true, means she had all the more to gain by being the one to take him out. I don’t really care if the other option was a good thing, eliminating Rob and going to the end with Phillip was a sure thing. Take the sure thing. Put up with him for one more day. Humiliate him at FTC. It will only make them like you more.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Sounds like a stellar player there. Totally distinguishable from Nat T.

          • sharculese

            Oh, they’re totally distinguishable. One is a blonde and one is a brunette.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      “Congrats to Matt”? Shame on you!

      • pufflehuff

        guess it’s been a rough week for bellhops.

    • Why would you rewatch “We Got A Rat” willingly?

      • pufflehuff

        Well, it was on my computer and had reached the limit for the amount of reading I could do on the ferry.

        But Game Changers has really made me appreciate Second Chances more. I definitely agree with your points about the poor storytelling at times (and that episode has Spencer at his finest ‘maybe I will seize my second chance by developing relationships’ best) but there’s some very likable people on that cast and I liked that episode, especially as the ‘it’s a shame Varner is so screwed’ story now plays very differently.

        • That isn’t the episode with Spencer catching fish, right?

          • pufflehuff

            Nope, though Spencer does tell Jeremy about not saying ‘I love you’ to his girlfriend.

          • Okay, so I think the fishing expedition must be in the next episode.

    • Blurry Denzel

      “Her only friend on the internet likes her because of a bet.”

      I’m obviously biased here but I feel like that alone should put her higher. The other Ashleys couldn’t pull that off.

      • pufflehuff

        Wait until the Palau rewatch. Ashlee Ashby will be clocking up fake fans.

    • Super duper fan

      Hey, how could you forget about me as a Ashley Underwood friend not because of a bet!

      http://popcultureperversion.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/anigif_enhanced-buzz-12011-1371566133-9.gif

  • Spergatory

    I really think this whole final four firemaking twist thing is actually going to make finales EVEN MORE BORING. It’s just going to get big threats aka big characters eliminated even earlier. And good lord, can we have chosen a less visually interesting *mandatory* challenge to make people participate in every single season? Firemaking is going to get real old, real fast. This is also taking away all drama from the final immunity challenge. That moment of high drama, cutting from Ben’s wrecked expression to Chrissy’s tears of joy; never happening again. Next season, everybody’s just gonna shrug and be like, “oh well, get ’em next time.”

    • purplerockandy

      I disagree with none of this.

      • purplerockandy

        I should add that I was talking about the PROBLEM this solution was trying to fix. Whether or not it actually will remains to be seen and I remain dubious.

        • Max_Jets

          Weirdly, I think I am most interested in watching players try to game the new system.

          • Maritimer

            My favourite things about new twists is watching players figure out how to break them

    • Maritimer

      I agree with this. I don’t find the fire challenge interesting and that’s certainly a part of why I dislike it. That said, I accept I/we may be in the minority on not likening challenges as much as strategy.
      Also, there’s an element of dumb luck to the fire challenge that I dislike in this context

      • Spergatory

        I don’t dislike challenges in general, I think there’s a place for them on the show, but I do dislike firemaking because as you said; it often seems down to luck, plus it’s not very visually interesting, and there doesn’t seem to be that much strategy or nuance to it. It’s one of the least interesting challenges on Survivor and now Survivor is trying to make it the only challenge they do every season. Not a good idea.

        • Max_Jets

          It also cuts down on the variety of winners. And voting people out is interesting because PEOPLE are interesting and create brand new situations just from being a different cast. Fire making will be the same regardless of who is involved. The more I think about it the less I like it.

    • Hornacek

      And what will happen after the final 4 challenge when they get back to camp? The players are all going to race for the flint to practice. All 1 player has to do is grab the flint and run away, keeping it from the others (in fact, this is what the immunity winner should do).

      • Spergatory

        Well, I mean, ideally they have SOMEONE they want to sit next to, so they steal all the flint and then give it to that person. Just straight stealing it and keeping it seems like bad jury management and also just mean and spiteful (though hilarious).

        • Hornacek

          Before you go to the final-four challenge, you should hide the flint. Then when you get back, (a) if you’re one of the ones that might have to make fire you can retrieve the flint and go practice, or (b) if you won immunity you can either tell who you want to practice where the flint is, or say nothing and no one will get to practice.

  • Spergatory

    “Playing the idol is controlling the vote!”

    What? No it’s not, especially if it’s known beforehand. Every idol play after the first, someone other than Ben’s intended target went home. Ben tries to get everyone to vote Dr Mike, he fails, Ashley goes home. He tries to get out Devon, Devon counters, Mike goes home. Keeping yourself in the game is not the same as controlling the vote.

    • purplerockandy

      Allow me to amend, “playing the idol CAN allow you to control the vote”. When done properly, you can have complete control of the vote. Of course, Ben did not due to A) fucking around the first time and B) being outmanuevered by Devon the second time. Actually, he may have been outmanuevered by Devon both times.

      Devon was awesome.

  • Spergatory

    It’s easier for me to forgive Devon for not stalking Ben to prevent his idolatry because Devon’s entire game was predicated on the idea of him appearing like he’s just a sweet, brainless surfer bro who isn’t doing much. It’s also easier for me to forgive Devon because Devon is a magical unicorn man and the sun shines brighter where he treads. Like I’m pretty sure all Devon really needed to do was *get* to the end, and he’d have walked away with the million. Sure, the guy wasn’t a great talker, but did you see the way people described him in exit interviews? The worst reviews he got from his fellow castaways were things like “Zen.” The best reviews involved descriptors bordering on messianic. These people were in love with this man. When people like you THAT much, they’ll find a reason to vote for you to win, all you have to do is give them the opportunity, and Devon could give them more game reasons than a lot of winners. But let’s be real here; even if Devon got to the end with no strategic resume *at all,* he’d probably still beat Chrissy and Ryan. And maybe even Ben!

    • purplerockandy

      I’d encourage you to get a userpic, but am fairly afraid of what it might be.

  • The reason why people feel sorry for Chrissy is the fact that the show was trying to box Chrissy into just being a mother. For better and worse Chrissy is more then that. Also it is okay sorry for both Devon and Chrissy for what happened.

    • Violina23

      I think I would like Chrissy a lot in person. But in the game, she came off as being cocky, overconfident, and not very self-aware. But I appreciate how hard she played. Her flaws were the social game, but at least she wasn’t making moves that made no fucking sense.

      • StormofCuteness

        You mean like not making sure someone was with Ben 24/7? That made no sense to me, I have to say.

    • purplerockandy

      I don’t know whoever gave the idea that it was okay to disagree with me, but me and that person shall have words.

      • It was @purplerockjohn:disqus who gave me that idea.

        • purplerockandy

          I should’ve fucking known.

  • Marlin M.

    I made it to the top comments!!! Woohoo!!

    • purplerockandy

      It was all the Ben complaining in the finale that put you over the top.

      • StormofCuteness

        I should have congratulated myself more. *totally kidding* 😂

    • How did your final go?

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        *notes that @marlin925:disqus is a possible probable witch*

  • Violina23

    Thanks for another season of distracting us from the real world and it’s terribleness…. even if it was mostly bitching about something that was not-quite-as-terrible-but-not-great

  • My one regret is that you are spending this postgame talking about Survivor based movies. You know the movies that that former Survivor were in.

    • sharculese

      Wait are we gonna discuss “The Bookstore”?

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I’m only 1/3rd of the way in. Are we going to discuss the Baywatch reboot?

      • Was think more “Bye-Bye Man” myself.

        • sharculese

          Oh fuck, now I have to watch that. And I do not want to.

          • Just like in the film itself, hearing about the Bye-Bye Man puts the target on them.

        • Diego Armando

          Who is in that?

          • That was the movie Penner made.

          • Reportedly, that is the movie that may have caused Penner to back out of Game Changers.

      • What is the Bookstore?

        • sharculese

          The episode of Seinfeld that Penner was in. He plays a guy who Elaine drunkenly makes out with at an office party. She pretends he’s her boyfriend to make it less embarrassing, but then it turns out he’s addicted to opium and her boss makes her nurse him through his detox.

          Late era Seinfeld got weird.

          • He gets run over by the rickshaw, right?

          • sharculese

            Yes, because Kramer and Newman are trying to start a rickshaw business staffed by homeless people and during a practice run Kramer gets tired carrying Newman up a steep slope and stops for a break.

            Like I said, late era Seinfeld gets weird.

          • Yeah, but they were still the number one show on tv.

          • sharculese

            Yeah, but they were started to get ragged at the seams. Putting a cap on the series with season 9 was a good idea, even if the cap they put on it was not.

          • sharculese

            And this is how I still had the 3rd most comments, even though I didn’t have that much to say about this season.

          • Look at who you are talking to.

          • Hornacek

            It was all Jerry’s decision to end to show after season 9. NBC and the other cast members wanted to keep it going – the ratings were still sky-high. Despite how silly and nonsensical some of the episodes got after LD left, it was still a ratings juggernaut.

    • Diego Armando

      If we could do some sort of group watch/live blog, I could be in.
      I am certain none of these could be worse than Curse of Bigfoot, the works of Coleman Francis, or Nothing But Trouble.

      • I used to like Nothing But Trouble as a child. Why was I allowed to watch Nothing But Trouble?

        • Diego Armando

          I also watched it when I was around 11. My dad and a family friend decided to play it one night (they apparently enjoyed it and wanted to watch it again).

          My internal responses were as follows:
          “I like Chevy Chase and John Candy”
          “This is creepy… when are they going to get back to going to Atlantic City?”
          (20 minutes later) “They aren’t going to Atlantic City, are they.”
          “The is terrifying and I want it to stop… WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS.”
          “Chevy Chase just made an instant door”

          After that my brain preceded to repress the movie for a decade, until I stumbled onto an article describing it and it all came back. Do not watch it.

          • I watched it even younger and I just remember the death slide.

  • So, what are everyone’s Survivor break plans? Because everyone is taking a break from Survivor, right?

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      I’m going to watch season 3 and maybe season 4 of The Genius. I have an idea for offseason content that would require rewatching one episode of every season, but I’m not burning to do it which is a sign that maybe I shouldn’t. I should probably tackle at least one of the seasons I haven’t seen yet (Australian Outback through Thailand).

    • I going to watch tv shows made from our great neighbors from the North in order to understand @purplerockandy:disqus better.

      • Like what?

        • Well “Flashpoint” taught me Canadian cops are so much then American ones and “Lost Girl” taught me Canada is the home of secret group of magical creatures. Although one of those things might be wrong.

          • I thought you were going with the Red Green Show.

          • Hornacek

            “If women can’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.”

          • YAASS!!!

          • Hornacek

            I miss The Steve Smith Show. And Wayne and Shuster.

          • I only got Red Green. Thanks PBS!

      • prettyboyprobst

        WWF wrestling taught me that Canadian police wears funny hats (ok, which country’s police force doesn’t – and yes, I know now that Mounties aren’t exactly the police) and runs around and frys people with cattle prods.

        • So Enrico Colantoni and former Power Ranger Amy Jo Johnson lied to me?

          • Hornacek

            Due South will tell you everything you need to know about mounties.

      • Hornacek

        Watch YouTube clips of The Littlest Hobo to troll @SNPalsy:disqus .

    • sharculese

      I’m going to keep punishing myself by playing Final Fantasy X.

      • That’s the one that generated the meme of the guy laughing hysterically, right?

        • sharculese

          Yes.

          • Have you ever finished it?

          • sharculese

            I have never played it before, and I don’t like, and I’m going to finish it anyway.

          • Oh no…If it makes you feel any better, I am going to try my first Final Fantasy game in the next couple of months.

          • sharculese

            Which one?

          • Final Fantasy 6/3 (thanks SNES Classic).

          • sharculese

            Oh cool. That’s a game that’s actually fun.

          • But, I have never played RPGs until buying the SNES Classic, so it may take a little while to understand it.

          • sharculese

            Nah, it’s a great novice RPG because most of your characters don’t get magic until midway through the game, and the first couple of characters you get you can mostly just attack with. The first half is also pretty linear and you’ll generally always have a good idea where to go next.

            The second half opens up and you can do it in almost any order you want, but by then you should understand what you’re doing.

          • The game is brilliant. One of the best of all time.

          • SNES FF games were all great, so that’s an excellent place to start. They aren’t generally too complicated, either.

            How is the SNES Classic, by the way?

          • It’s pretty great, but I have mostly played Donkey Kong Country and Super Mario Kart.

          • Violina23

            That is the only FF I’ve ever played (via emulator), and it is amazing.

            Is Chrono Trigger on the Classic? If so, I highly recommend that one too.

          • sharculese

            It’s isn’t but it does have Super Mario RPG and Earthbound.

          • Both also really really good games

          • I started Earthbound the day after Thanksgiving, but I really need time to sit and digest it.

          • It’s a slow burn, quirky, but it will get you.

          • Chrono Trigger is one of the major gaps on the Classic, but it is something I want to track down if I end up liking RPGs.

          • Violina23

            I probably played both of those ~10 years ago on emulators, so I’m sure you can find one pretty easily. These are actually the two main RPG’s I’ve played all the way through, and now you are all making me want to play these games again….

          • sharculese

            I can 100% Chrono Trigger in under 15 hours without looking anything up.

            I used to have a savefile that proved it but I dropped my SNES (from like 2 feet) and it erased all my data. Cart still works fine, but that was heartbreaking.

          • Violina23

            Damn! I only played through Chrono Trigger once, my memories are hazy, but I know it was a ton of fun.

            That being said, I can still beat the first quest of the original Legend of Zelda, and all of Super Mario 3 without any cheats. Original NES was my jam. You know, because I’m old

            (We also had an original Atari, and we even had the dreaded E.T. game)

          • sharculese

            Chrono Trigger’s another great novice game because it slowly introduces you to a set of boss and enemy attack patterns and then, as the game progresses, starts combining elements and asking you to be a little more creative about how you approach fights, without ever really getting too hard.

            There’s a great essay that breaks down the level design of Chrono Trigger, but it assumes you’ve played the game so it’s kind of spoiler-y.

          • Violina23

            I’m interested in reading this article…. damnit I really want to play now…

          • sharculese
          • Violina23

            Wow that’s a long one… I probably don’t remember enough to really appreciate it 😉

          • Diego Armando

            I played the GBA version. It’s a classic. FFX I can take or leave. The lead character is easily the dumbest lead I have ever played.

      • Why don’t you play a good RPG instead? I intend to pick up Xenoblade 2 myself.

        • sharculese

          I’m not letting this game break me.

          • sharculese

            We’ll see whose laughing when I do that thing where you dodge the lightning bolt 200 times.

            (You. It will be you.)

          • I will be laughing at the fact that you took that much effort to do that.

          • sharculese

            Spoiler alert: there’s a non-zero chance I at least see what’s up with X-2. I played IX-2, it can’t possibly be worse than that.

          • Diego Armando

            I tired that twice, then said “Fuck it” and moved on. I also refused to beat the Chocobo Race because it has the worst controls ever. I played a shameful amount of Blitzball though (because Blitzball only becomes fun through Stockholm Syndrome). I didn’t think the butterflies was that bad though.

          • Diego Armando

            I recommend Persona 5 and Neir: Automata if you have a PS4. Also Bloodborne.

          • Me before the Game Awards: Persona 5 looks really pretentious
            Me after the Game Awards: I think I might need to play Persona 5.

          • Diego Armando

            It’s a lot of fun. It is slightly pretentious, but is fantastically polished.

          • Diego Armando

            Word of advice if you play it: Max out the Temperance Persona (The Teacher) as soon as possible. It allows you do do things on nights after you have been dungeon crawling.

          • It requires me to buy a PS4.

          • Diego Armando

            It may not be worth it. If you were planning to buy a PS4/XB3, this, plus Neir: Automata, & Bloodborne should push it towards PS4. My brother got me one for Christmas last year because I really wanted to play Bloodborne.

          • See, I am a burgeoning gamer. Bloodborne and the Souls series in general scares the shit out of me.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I’m starting wirh Borneo. I’m gonna see how far I can get.

    • corndogshuffle

      Showing my girlfriend Cagayan. We just got to the Jeremiah/Geremiah/Jeremy boot.

    • Blurry Denzel

      Somehow I agreed to watching not one, but two different Survivor seasons. It’s all good because they’re both excellent seasons, one of which is my favorite non HvV season ever.

      • I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

        • prettyboyprobst

          Minute mark?

          Don’t bother, I know you’re talking about a season you hate (realtively) and not the podcast.

    • Maritimer

      Haven’t totally decided. My roommate and I are rewatching the West Wing for like the 4th time but I’m gonna need another show for the offseason. I may rewatch the 100 before it’s next season which I presume will occur in the spring

    • Alycia Swift

      Catching up on other shows. I hear Mrs. Maisel is good. I did not finish the new Star Trek series. Still unpacking.

      • Violina23

        I’m still going at husband pace… 5 episodes in. Pretty great!

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I finished both shows a couple of days ago. I really enjoyed Mrs. Maisel, but ultimately it was just a little bit too much of a confection for me, coasting a whole lot on the charm of the lead actors. But this is the first Amy Sherman-Palladino series I’ve seen and I’ve heard similar things about her other shows. But that’s a minor quibble, I want to stress that I really liked it and I’ll definitely watch season 2.

          I also really liked Star Trek Disco. They made some strange decisions, and I really hate what they did with the Klingons, but overall I really liked this show also, but it’s definitely a YMMV. The same bad fans that are angry about The Last Jedi would be furious about STD (wow, they really should have thought about the acronym), and for many of the same reasons, if the show wasn’t buried on CBS All Access.

          • I cannot watch Gilmore Girls, but I really like Bunheads, so I’m okay with trying Mrs. Maisel.

    • Super duper fan

      The only Survivor content I will probably watch this off-season is the final 3 episodes of The Australian Survivor, which for some reason I still haven’t gotten around yet (maybe it’s because I was spoiled that my favourite didn’t win, but I did like the person who DID ultimately win, so IDK), which I actually may do today, so I’ll see about that.

      But basically aside from checking this site, Rhap, and Reddit for information, I don’t plan on watching anything Survivor related till the next season.

    • Mike Hirsch

      The wife and I are watching The Shield after years of attempting to watch it and getting nowhere. We’re up to season 3 now. I love Walton Goggins, but Shane kind of sucks.

  • Violina23

    In regards to the challenge that was “as random as random can be” — I envy the fact that you seem to have forgotten the marble challenge

    • Which Chrissy counted at FTC btw.

      • Maritimer

        I caught that too, I’m surprised nobody called her on that. Though I suppose she had enough of a record. Imagine if someone like Ryan had tried to claim that as his only win

        • sharculese

          It’s possible that someone did, and it was cut because it was so irrelevant. Remember that, even in the old format, FTC lasted much longer than what we saw.

          • Maritimer

            True, and they’d be likely to cut it if someone criticized that challenge win given that it’s nasically bashing production.

        • She did have enough of a record, so why mention it, especially when everyone knew how bullshit that challenge was?

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, but I’m still curious what would happen if someone like Ryan wins that challenge and tries to claim it

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    That was some cold shit at the end there, @purplerockjohn:disqus. Stone cold shit.

    • You’re right. I should’ve congratulated Matt.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Have you and @barbarathewitch:disqus just been sitting there all day waiting for me to post this?

        • No. I just haven’t been on the website that much today.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I told everyone at my family’s X-mas get-together to listen to this podcast to hear my shout out!

          • Sorry.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Great-granny Palsy finally bought a computer at the age of 97 so she could hear it!

          • Why didn’t she just buy an iPod?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I told her she could only hear it on the computer.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Also, she’s 97 and I need a new computer.

          • “Just listen for my name. I’m known as Barbara Anderson on the site.”

          • “Why did you pick that stupid name?”

            SNP: “I don’t know”.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That’s pretty much my standard response to any question starting with “Why did you…”

        • Nah. I took a break from wrapping presents and stumbled upon this gift from you.

    • Favorite moment of the podcast.

  • TheForRealDeal

    I know most of the discussion about this episode will focus on Chrissy and Ben, and rightfully so, but I don’t want Cochran’s game to get lost in the shuffle. I really feel that in a different season Cochran could have won the whole thing, but the rest of the castaways were just playing a different game than he was. See, Cochran is a fan of this show, so he’s seen Caramoan, and he’s a lawyer, so he understands precedent. Cochran probably reasoned, reasonably, that going to the end with a mom-type and an abrasive Idahoan would be a sure path to a shutout victory. I mean, it worked out for that guy from Caramoan, so why shouldn’t it work for Cochran? Nothing has happened in America in the intervening years that might sour the audience on a person like Cochran, right? Right. Besides, hasn’t Cochran been through enough? He’s from New Jersey for crying out loud! The whole situation is exactly like an office Christmas party where Cochran is the only one who doesn’t drink; everybody is having drunken sex except him! Can’t this guy get a date vote? It’s like the people on the jury aren’t even Survivor fans!

    • I know what you were doing with Ryan right there but I would like to remind you Ryan is the world weakest bellop and not a lawyer.

      • TheForRealDeal

        Sorry, I should have said aspiring lawyer.

        • I, sorry, but I could not let you besmirch lawyers by calling Ryan one.

    • Head Architect Sylvia

      I was super surprised that Cochran didn’t pull through for the victory this season after his pow wow with strategic goddess Debbie Wanner last season. It’s like he forgot everything she told him.

  • Head Architect Sylvia

    I definitely need a break from Survivor after the two US seasons and Aus Survivor pretty much back to back this year. It has been too much!

    Thanks for the commentary this season, guys. I must admit I didn’t listen to all of the podcasts this time round because I wasn’t really getting into it as much, but the ones I did listen to were uninspired and borderline blasphemous at best. I guess I’ll have to stick around unless Missy and Baylor start releasing a podcast.

    Merry Christmas everyone! Everyone is posting their top albums of the year but I think favourite Christmas songs would be more appropriate.

  • Still haven’t finished listening yet,but on Devon: I’m really going back and forth here. Yes, letting Ben find the idols makes him look as dumb as the rest of the cast. But after Ben’s first idol play (which NOBODY saw coming) Devon quickly scooped up the game’s two biggest goats and had a clear and easy path to the end. Yes, he then let Ben find two more idols, but he was able to deflect Ben’s plays both times, keeping his Final 3 intact. First, I do think he goaded Ben into playing his idol early at Final 6. He pressed the issue and Ben jumped the gun. Second, the defensive vote for Mike at Final 5 (which actually made me think of how we were discussing that Lauren could have saved herself with a throw-away vote for another player with her extra vote). Any other Survivor season he’s in the Final 3 and likely a winner. I don’t know if he’s good or great or just good relative to this cast. All these moves seemed pretty damn good to me, but the Ben/idol thing is damning. I don’t know.

    Also I wonder about the group of 4 that Lauren pulled together. It’s very possible Lauren thought she could take over the game with 4 people even though there were 9 left which makes no sense because math. Devon seems to have been the one to do the hard work at actually making that happen (with Secret Agent Ben). Devon’s edit could have been played down so as not to make it look like he was “robbed” by the Final 4 twist, but that could just be some fanfiction on my part as well.

    Anyway this was my first full season listening and I appreciate the coverage and all the folks here, thanks for making a subpar season a lot more fun.

    • Max_Jets

      “Devon’s edit could have been played down so as not to make it look like he was “robbed” by the Final 4 twist, but that could just be some fanfiction on my part as well.”
      I’m very surprised by how much prominence in edit can play a role into people’s perception of someone’s game. To me, Devon clearly played the best game this season. But everything I read on the Survivor Facebook page only talked about Ben and Chrissy, and Inside Survivor’s poll for player of the season currently has Chrissy at around 56% and Devon at around 18% http://insidesurvivor.com/survivor-heroes-healers-hustlers-player-of-the-season-31470
      ???

    • Max_Jets

      Also, she DID have her extra vote, so it still made some sense but was just riskier.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      All these moves seemed pretty damn good to me, but the Ben/idol thing is damning. I don’t know.

      Yeah, to me any criticism of Ben as a winner, and defense of the rest of the F6, begins and ends right here. Ben hustled to find those idols when nobody else except apparently Mike did, and the rest of them couldn’t be bothered to tail Ben, even though they ended up getting Ben-bombed literally over and over again (in her exit interview, Chrissy even cited, without any apparent shame, fatigue as the reason they didn’t baby-sit Ben).

      • Oh yeah I wouldn’t put an asterisk next to Ben’s win. Say what you want about the twist but bottom line is Ben got done what he needed to get done.

      • prettyboyprobst

        That alone is not even that damning to me. But an alliance shouldn’t just let their intended and only acceptable target roam around freely without doing their best of tailing him, if that’s what they did.
        I would still like to, somewhat hesitantly, as I don’t have the inside knowledge of say an Adam Klein or Stephen Fishbach, call bullshit on all the armchair GMs who act like it would be the easiest thing in the game to follow someone 24/7. Just because we once got a scene of Andrea chatting with Troy on a sunny day at the beach and Rob installed a buddy system on his fourth try doesn’t mean that’s how it always works. I think a determined player who dgaf about what others think of him will always be able to steal away from those supposed to watch over him for a few minutes, or even hours at a time.
        So the most effective counter to desperate-for-idols players in my eyes is still to find the idol before anybody else can (and not play, or literally burn it, DR.MIKE), which I think they did to some (probably not sufficient, over that 3 episode span) extent. Sure, ideally you agree to some form of division of labor with your alliance to achieve all of these goals until th HII is retrieved, but you also need an insane trust level within the alliance to make that happen (which, to be fair, these guys seemed pretty close to having, although that came a little bit as a surprise to me, watching the season).

        So in my eyes, for that awful final 4 twist if nothing else, Ben does deserve an asterisk to his name. He still played a heck of a game though and those consecutive idol finds with his back against the wall were mightily impressive, no matter where you land on how hard or easy they were and should be to find. And that’s not even mentioning all the strong, not at all idol- or production-related work he did to get to the point, where he could idol-find his way to final four.
        Is having an asterisk to one’s name really all that bad? I don’t think so, and that’s why I have no trouble putting one next to Ben. It just means that if things had remotely played out as the remaining contestants had every right to believe they would, we’d be talking about a different winner for season 35.

  • Also:

    A: We like to keep our circle tight.

    J: Phrasing.

    A: Maybe?

  • Maritimer

    I likely won’t get a chance to listen until my post-holiday drive home but I really hope that Andy and John discuss how Ryan was clearly the most deserving winner. He clearly came into the season intent on creating his own narrative as the awkward nerdy guy who needed to get laid and was able to drive the narrative of the season to what he wanted, to levels Spencer could only dream of. And he managed to do this all without Probst asking awkward follow ups at the reunion where he clearly would have answers he thought was funny to explain to Probst how Survivor obviously got him laid, and that since he did, doesn’t that make him the real winner here. He achieved the goal he set out to accomplish at the beginning of the season – he got his narrative and it accomplished what he wanted it to – so the jury should have seen that and rewarded it, since isn’t he the real winner anyways

  • gouis

    Not gonna listen for a while due to vacation stuff but love you all and look forward to next season, even if it seems like it will be riddled with twists and the complaints about that will be repeated ad infinitum

    • prettyboyprobst

      Fwiw, Johnny Fairplay said on his podcast that he spoke with somebody in production and they think that they have a real gem coming up with Ghost Island. Again, take that for what it’s worth.

      • Violina23
        • Violina23

          Although, I will say, if they have an actual idol that’s the “fucking stick” the entire season will be worth it.

      • Max_Jets

        I have a good feeling about it. But I also had a good feeling about this season. And Game Changers. And MvGX, Kaoh Rong, Cambodia, and Worlds Apart. I might just be optimistic.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        How is his podcast?

        • prettyboyprobst

          Pretty brief, most of the time. A regular episode is about 35-45 minutes, from which you can probably skip through 3-4 minutes of intro and closing theme, and another 8 minutes of T-shirt marketing each episode. So not a huge commitment.
          They do a pretty standard episode recap each week, but it should be noted that the co-host (not a huge fan of his, the by the way) is completely new to Survivor (or maybe he watched small parts of season one), so it’s a little bit like Snakes, Rats and Goats in that regard, only without the Elder/Churnoff charme. JFP actually does a pretty admirable job of explaining everything that happens to him, while still keeping it interesting for more seasoned audiences and peppers it with personal anecdotes and trash talk about Joe and Chrissy. Maybe he runs a little bit in danger of overdoing it with the relating everything that happens back to his time in the game.

          It also helps that it’s usually one of the earlier pods to be released each week, more often than not it was already there when I checked on thursdays.

          If you like the Johnny Fairplay from recent RhaP-appearances, you should give it a try. There was one extra long episode that had a different, more Survivor savvy co-host that I can recommend without reservation, especially if you enjoy anecdotes of the Fairplay-and-Rowdy-Roddy-Piper-on-a-night-out variety.
          Here’s a link to that episode: https://audioboom.com/posts/6510587-heroes-healers-and-hustlers-week-9

  • So, I decided to do some thinking about if the firemaking at F4 would be in play in other seasons, what would happen. I was inspired because I strongly believe that Jaclyn would have taken Natalie with her and forced Missy and Keith to make fire because both of them had a guaranteed vote on the jury unlike Natalie because BvW and all. This means that it could have came dangerously close to Keith and Natalie at the end because I don’t see Missy beating Keith in fire.

    Another season which somewhat changes if I am doing this correctly is HvV. We know that Russell will take Sandra and I strongly believe that Jerri beats Parvati in fire.

    Any other seasons that has a F3 but doesn’t already have a firemaking challenge at 4 that may change the winner?

    • Violina23

      I suggested this as a post for the off-season…

      Apparently this is discussed in the live-thread, but I haven’t been able to wade through the 1000+ comments

      • I completely missed it. I was just inspired by the off-handed Jaclyn reference.

      • Maritimer

        Here it is. Please keep in mind this was basically off the cuff so I’m definitely open to argument on them, but a lot of time it could have changed the outcome.

        KR: Michele probably saves Tai so it changes nothing
        Cambodia: Jeremy saves Tasha, we get Spencer v Kelley. Maybe changes outcome if Wentworth wins
        WA: Mike protects Will I think. Nothing changes
        SJDS: Jac protects Nat. Keith beats Missy at fire and maybe wins. Worse.
        Cagayan: In a F3 world, Kass saves Woo, we get a Tony-Spencer fire showdown for who wins the season.
        BvW: Tyson saves Gervase. Tina maybe makes the finale and wins through RI AND this twist and it really sucks
        Caramoan: Eddie wins fire over whoever and maybe wins the season. Much worse.
        Philippines: Malcolm v Denise at fire for winner of the season.
        OW: Doesn’t matter. Kim wins. Not looking up who won final immunity (Barbara says Kim won the FIC so no matter what she does, she wins)
        SoPa: Ozzy has a really good chance at winning fire and the season. Far worse.
        RI: Ashley v Natalie in a fire showdown and if Ashley wins she maybe beats Rob. Worse.
        Nicaragua: Does Holly win if she beats Chase at fire? Don’t know, don’t care
        HvV: Parv v Jerri for fire I think (Russell was soooo sure he beats Sandra). Not sure if Jerri making FTC changes much other than the margin (Colby votes Jerri)
        Samoa: If Brett beats whoever at fire, he wins
        Tocantins: F2
        Gabon: Exactly what happened, happens.
        Micro: F2
        China (missed this in the first post): I don’t know who Amanda protects. If its Todd, it doesn’t really matter. If its Courtney, Denise could beat Todd at fire and that blows FTC wide open I think
        Fiji: Yau v Earl for fire and the season
        CI: Exact same thing happens(?) unless idol gets shifted back to 5, then Yul destroys Becky at fire and still wins.

        • China is interesting because I could see Amanda doing all three scenarios.

          • Maritimer

            I don’t think she’d protect Denise, but China is easily the messiest of the seasons to consider

          • I could see her saying to herself that Todd is dangerous, but I can beat either Denise or Courtney.

    • Max_Jets

      Maritimer had a post going through the seasons, and I had disagreed about the HvV outcome – I think Russell takes Parvati (he knew they both pissed off the heroes), with Jerri likely winning the season.

      • Thank you! I still think Russell takes Sandra because he sees her as Natalie 2.0.

        • Maritimer

          I’m tempted to think so too but there’s also the slight crush he had on Parvati to consider

          • Yeah, but I think he would think that Parvati beats Jerri because he thought that Jerri was a locked vote for him.

          • Maritimer

            That’s true. I’d say 80-20 odds he takes Sandra, but there’s some chance he takes Parv

          • I could see that, but I could also see him still being mad at Parv for not telling him about her idol.

          • Maritimer

            Also true. Trying to figure out how Russell’s brain would work may be really just be a crapshoot

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    In the liveblog thread, my thinking about the new F4 evolved over the course of 24 ours from complete opposition to qualified support. Before we shut down for the off-season I want to recap where I’ve landed for the moment.

    Even the people who support the change are framing it as a fix of the F3, which was supposed to fix the F2 but it didn’t have the intended effect. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it. Rather, the new F4 format turns the clock back to the F2 and takes a different approach to fixing the original F2 problem.

    Now, just as in the original F2 format, the winner of the final IC picks the person they want to sit next to, but instead of the strongest non-immune player in the F3 (or F4) automatically getting the boot*, there’s the equivalent of the baseball Wild Card game for the last FTC spot.

    When MLB went to six divisions and introduced the wild card, there was a lot of pearl-clutching about the purity of the game being ruined if a wild card team won the World Series. The purists weren’t exactly wrong, but when it did happen, nobody outside the Atlanta area really cared, because it turned out to be a worthwhile trade-off between purity and making the end of the season exciting, even though 1) the original wild card system actually was kind of unfair and needed to be fixed (by adding a second wild card team and a one-game sudden death game), 2) the 1997 Marlins were a travesty of a team, and 3) the exact nightmare scenario that the purists were worried about actually happened (the wild card team met and beat the winner of its own division in the league championship series).

    *although this turns out not to be automatic. There are plenty of cases of, say, Tai voting for Cydney out of loyalty to Aubry, or Culpepper getting rid of Tai instead of Sarah because he’s pissed.

    • prettyboyprobst

      I read that carefully and still have no idea why you (or anyone, really) would be fine with this abomination as a permanent fixture to the Survivor end game. Can we at least agree that it was bullshit to spring it on the players without any notice?

      Beware: rant incoming
      The thing is, the already introduced wild cards to the game and they’re called Hidden Immunity Idols. Not enough? How about every camp gets one, and we immediately replace them once they’re played. Not enough? Let’s pepper it with a few advantages of all different kinds.
      Still not enough? Let’s get even more advantages and idols and a RI season every once in awhile.
      These are all wild cards. Why do we need to make the endgame into something completely different to get another one, the ultimate wild card?

      And that’s not even talking about the bigger problem I have with this development: I think we’re all tuning in, more or less and besides many other points of attraction (like, for example, literal attraction, like in a sexual way), because we want to see new, unexpected gameplay, and game dynamics that will blow our minds happen. We want to see stuff happen and production is trying their darndest to do their part in giving it to us. The problem is, we’re nearing a point (or maybe we’re already there) where incredible, mind-blowing and record breaking never-seen-before stuff happening becomes the expectation. So how amazing is it to get a no votes count TC, if that is just the consequence of production overloading the game with twists, idols and advantages?
      How cool is it to see someone find three idols in a row when he most needed them, when you can’t shake the feeling that they were barely hidden in the first place?
      The possibility of a fire challenge occuring at F4 used to be that exciting prospect. How is it any fun if that’s just the norm now?
      TL;DR: We used to long for good (or even bad) players to come along and use the tools the show gives them to make stuff happen, but these days Survivor just is a show where stuff happens, no matter what. Also, there are plenty of wild cards in the game already, so I don’t think we need another one that’s even more powerful.

      eta: haven’t listed to more than the first few minutes of the pod yet, but from the description it sounds like John and Andy like it. So if there is a great case to be made for that twist and they took care of it, I’m going to hear it sooner than later (and probably still won’t change my mind).

      • the sky is falling

        I say, go for it, give every player an idol at the start of the game and thats it. 18 idols from jump, boom! No other advantages or idols. It could put an interesting revote on the table I guess?

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I read that carefully and still have no idea why you (or anyone, really) would be fine with this abomination as a permanent fixture to the Survivor end game. Can we at least agree that it was bullshit to spring it on the players without any notice?

        Yup, it was bullshit to spring it on them without notice, just like it was bullshit to spring a final 3 on them in Cook Islands and a final 2 on them in Micronesia. And that’s why I can’t get behind calling it an “abomination”. Ozzy and Cirie were very likely robbed, and if you discount Ben’s win you would have to do the same for Yul and Parvati. And yet, those are two of Survivor’s most beloved seasons and two of the game’s most notable winners, and the last-minute FTC shenanigans matter almost not at all to how we remember those seasons or their winners (to be clear, HHH is no Cook Islands, and Ben is no Yul, but for reasons other than the FTC twist).

        I’m far from sold that always having a fire-making challenge determine the third finalist is a good idea. But in principle I support the show throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, rather than let things get stuck in a rut. I also trust the show to scrap things that aren’t working. I don’t believe for a second that the fire-making challenge is any more of a “permanent” change than Redemption Island or the Legacy Advantage. As long as they have the sense to get rid of what doesn’t work, let them experiment (although Advantage-geddon in Game Changers should be a sign to cool it on the idols and advantages).

        • prettyboyprobst

          Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it widely believed that Micronesia was a F2 because of medevacs? It still sucked and I’m not excusing it (although going back to a F2 from time to time is not the same level of alteration as blatantly cancelling the vote at F4 without any notice, imho), but at least then production had good reason to intervene in the gameplay like that, whereas this change seemingly only happened because production felt like it.
          And I assume you bring up Yul for the god idol? Or something to do with the fire challenge? I agree with those voices who say that idol was over-powered (although Terry still couldn’t win with it – you still have to make the best of it, as Ben did with the idols and fire challenge), and yes, I love Yul and think highly of Parvati.
          But that was exactly my point: That surprise F2 or how Yul was helped by (and made the best use of) the super idol is something that is frequently brought up when discussing winners (I think. At least it should be), often in the same breath as acknowledging that they are great players who played a heck of a game ( I would think). I’d call that putting an asterisk to their name, and their examples show that an asterisk doesn’t have to come with people discounting their wins entirely and still celebrate what they were great at. That’s how I will look back on Ben, although I agree, he’s not an all-time GREAT winner regardless. But imho you can’t talk about Cirie as someone who would have been a/the deserving winner of FvF, without adding that asterisk next to Parvati.
          Nobody ever got hurt from carrying an asterisk 😉

          But in principle I support the show throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, rather than let things get stuck in a rut.
          That I do agree with. Just keep it within limits.

          I also trust the show to scrap things that aren’t working. I don’t
          believe for a second that the fire-making challenge is any more of a
          “permanent” change than Redemption Island or the Legacy Advantage.

          I hope you’re right. The news that this will become a permanent fixture got me even more riled up than learning about this ill-conceived twist for this season did in the first place.

          As long as they have the sense to get rid of what doesn’t work, let them
          experiment (although Advantage-geddon in Game Changers should be a sign
          to cool it on the idols and advantages).

          Amen. I mean, again, within limits. Nothing to far-reaching and not so many or frequent changes, that players are constantly scared what production is going to hit them over the head with next. By and large they need to be under the impression that they know what’s coming. If that illusion is gone, I’m worried people will just play it safe as much as possible.
          Why pursue any big moves when they’re likely to backfire and another “big move” could just fall into your lap at any time?

          • purplerockandy

            I think he meant that the Cook Islands final 3 was a surprise edition to the players.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Ah yes, of course, that and the everlasting Super-Idol are two good reasons to look at Cook Island as an odd season and to scrutinize its winner for having had special circumstances.
            I don’t see it as exactly the same though, as Ozzy at least made it to final tribal council and there are actually good reasons for the change to a final three (it helps that I’m pro F3, for having more people in the endgame usually makes it more interesting to me).

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Now that I’ve finally gotten to the end of the podcast, I fully support the PRP staff and anybody else needing to take a break to recharge over the off-season. I myself am feeling pretty ground down, and will probably take time off as well.

    That said, if you aren’t feeling that way, I’ll remind y’all for one last time that there was a first-rate season of Survivor in 2017. Australian Survivor is a different enough beast that it’s kind of a chalk-and-cheese comparison with US Survivor, but if I was forced to rank it it would be in the 6-10 range. Fair warning, it’s quite a mountain to climb, as it’s about 2.5x the length of a US Survivor season. But I can honestly say that it’s worth it, and while it’s more leisurely than US Survivor, very little of that running time feels wasted.

    I created a playlist on Dailymotion for some non-PRP Survivor-obsessed friends, and I’ll link it here. Thanks everybody for being such a great community. I’m not exaggerating when I say that being part of PRP was a real bright spot in what was otherwise a dismal 2017, for Survivor and otherwise.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x55usi

    • Bundi

      Thank you for posting this. I’ve been looking for this!

  • Violina23

    Anyone up for some Star Wars: Last Jedi spoiler chat?

    • Alycia Swift

      Have not seen it yet.

    • What a Star Wars?

    • the sky is falling

      It sucked and it was amazing at the same time. You can never get back the nostalgia feeling of Empire, but The Yoda scene made the whole movie worthwhile. “Luke, still looking to the horizon.” oof

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      I literally just walked out of my second viewing. I enjoyed it more the second time because I wasn’t all in my own head about seeing A New Hope as a kid, Carrie Fisher, etc. There are a couple things to ding and it definitely sags in the middle, but the bad-fan whining about cast diversity, “betrayal” of the old movies and whatnot is simply sad.

    • Max_Jets

      I really liked it! It’s the most I remember enjoying a Star Wars movie, but that doesn’t say too much because I was a kid when I watched the older ones and I was a bit drunk when I saw The Force Awakens. The Rey/Kylo Ren scenes were wonderful, Oscar Isaac is still a stud, and is this the most interesting Luke has ever been? I might have to go back and rewatch the original trilogy.

      • corndogshuffle

        Hammill was incredible. I don’t think Luke has ever been a deeper or more well acted character. He couldn’t get enough screen time for how much I enjoyed his performance. Was a bit like Heath Ledger in “The Dark Knight” In that I just kept waiting for his next scene. Luckily, there was a ton of other great stuff going on, especially the Rey/Ren story.

      • Violina23

        Whether you like the direction they took Luke or not, there’s no question in my mind that he’s the most interesting he’s ever been. His original-trilogy-conflicts were always pretty black & white, good vs. evil. The things we found out about in this movie were FAR more grey. And that’s why all the crazy fan boys (girls?) can’t handle it. It’s 30+ years later. Why should he be the same character he was at the end of ROTJ?

    • corndogshuffle

      The first time I saw it I was underwhelmed. Thought it was pretty good, but nothing special. I saw it again and was blown away. Really loved it, to the point that I saw it a third time.

      In particular, I thought the Rey/Ren storyline was amazing. Couldn’t get enough of those two on screen together. Mark Hammill knocked it out of the park. He was incredible.

      The non plot related thing that bothered me most the first time was the style of humor. I thought it was forced, came across as a little like something you’d see in an “Avenger” movie, and messed with the overall tone in a bad way. The second time, not so much.

    • Alkanarra

      I’ll add my more than two cents.

      I’m a huge F’ing Star Wars fan and I… I don’t really know how to feel about it. I don’t dislike it, I just… it was a very mixed bag.

      It had plenty of good stuff. Daisy Ridler and Adam Driver are both excellent and their relationship is the clear anchor of the film in a way even the OT didn’t have. I have no strong feelings about “what they did to Luke” or whatever, but Mark Hamill is obviously still the best. Loved the twists, it looked pretty, and I appreciate the world building even if I ultimately think it hurt the film by showing the irrelevance of its B plot.

      So let’s talk about that B plot. It was unnecessarily long and the editing was all over the place, but that’s mostly because it still doesn’t know what to do with nearly half its cast. Finn was fine in the first movie because he was playing off Daisy Ridley’s enthusiasm (and, frankly, superior performance); once he was separated from her, his character became utterly pointless. Rose was tossed in because they realized you can’t watch this dude do his side plot for 2+ hours. Poe sat on a ship and bickered with old ladies. The movies don’t know what to do with the non-Force users, and it’s apparent by the fact that their scrappy plan failed and the film just kinda moved on like lol whatever, it’s not like anyone cared what you were doing. Finn’s little cryo-nap to cliffhanger the first film went nowhere because (a) no one had any investment in this character so why tease it out like that and (b) it’s pretty clear they’re just making this stuff up between films. The movie realized that watching the slowest space chase ever filmed wasn’t super riveting so they pointlessly go to Space Monte Carlo, but it just added more commotion to an already overlong film and pulled you away from the good shit going down on Rey’s part of the galaxy. Everything the side characters added was filler while they fleshed out the much, much better Rylo/Rey stuff. While the OT had the charisma of Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, and Billie Dee Williams to humanize the normies, the new films don’t have that magic and it’s really making their B story about the Rebellion feel so unimportant.

      Counterpoint to my rambling: I went to watch it surrounded by kids and every single one of them left the theater in awe and wonder. If these are their movies then great. The prequels were a bust and they shouldn’t have to go through that like I did, so I’m more than willing to put down the pitchfork if they get to have what I already got in the OT.

      • Violina23

        Totally agree about the B-plots (as I mentioned in my ramblings). The thing is — I liked all of these characters (Poe, Finn, Rose, Laura-Dern-whose-character-name-i-cant-remember) but SURELY with all of these filmmakers they couldn’t have found a better conflict? In Empire Strikes Back — there was a legitimate cat & mouse game going on, but the real focus was always on Yoda/Luke/Vader, and it commanded the majority of the screen time (as it should have). The parallel stories of Luke/Rey/Ren should have been weighted as such.

        I will go on record as saying, while I in NO way excuse their flaws, I didn’t hate the prequels as much as everybody else. They added to the depth and the mythology of a world I enjoyed, and it’s a real shame how it all played out because there were some good stories that got lost behind the Jar Jar’s, midichlorians, terrible dialogue, etc. I firmly believe that had George Lucas not been surrounded by “Yes” men who worshiped him like a god, the feedback loop would have given us much higher-quality storytelling.

        • Alkanarra

          The prequels are tough. I agree that Lucas took a huge risk by broadening the world building so significantly and diverging so much from his set formula, which is also my biggest criticism about the new series: these movies are just more of what we’ve already seen before, repackaged and *slightly* altered to confound our expectations. Lucas actively (and perhaps unnecessarily) dove into the universe to show what the Jedi were like and how a pre-Empire civilization functioned. The guy went so far as to toss in stuff about a Trade Federation and internal politics within the Senate. And I really do commend him for the attempt.

          His problem was that the films failed on almost every possible angle. The performances were 99% terrible across the board, the tone was bizarrely cheesy for such a dark story, the plot was way too complicate for a space opera, and all the world building meant there was endless nonsensical filler that made editing an impossibility, and editing was always a huge albatross for him. (His wife, among others, did a real number to turn A New Hope’s well-done but scattered pieces into a workable film.) Even visually, every single scene in the prequels was unnaturally bright, which is such a stark divergence from the more dark and shadowy feel that you’d get from Empire. Between that and the cheese, it made it hard to take seriously. Not to mention the special effects lasted maybe 4-5 years before looking woefully outdated, but hard to blame him for that.

          I’ll always commend the guy for trying something new and for being overwhelmingly generous with his money, but the prequels had a lot more to overcome than just Jar Jar.

          • Violina23

            I often wonder if the prequels would have been better served as one big movie. With a tighter script, better dialog, and less action-for-the-sake-of-action, it could have told the same basic story in a much better way.

            Were you into all the extended universe stuff? My husband read a lot of the books on his commute and enjoyed them, and he’s been watching Clone Wars with my daughter. He watched Rebels too, until we cut cable, but he’ll see them eventually.

          • Alkanarra

            I skipped the shows though I hear good things. I was into the books for the most part, but, that having been said, I’m totally OK with them hitting the reset button. The EU was all over the place with conflicting storylines everywhere. They also wouldn’t move beyond the original characters in any significant way, so I’m glad to see them get killed off. As much as I enjoyed the Thrawn stuff, a lot of it was silly and there’s no way you can recast those characters, so might bring in something new.

            That being said, another issue with the new films is their refusal to add any of it back in. They have several generations of EU characters and races that they can draw upon but they’re approaching the whole situation like “we don’t need any of this, we can do better, we’ll make it up as we go.” Not all of it was bad stuff.

    • Violina23

      Here’s the schpiel I wrote up the day after I saw the movie:

      What I liked, I *really* liked. What I disliked, I *really* disliked.

      What I liked:
      * Rey’s scenes with Luke, in particular his explanation of the force
      and why it’s not tied specifically to the Jedi order / Jedi way of life
      * The complicated nature of Luke’s relationship with Ben
      * The light-saber battle with Ben & Rey
      * The cute moments, like Luke flicking his shoulder during the fake-out during the last battle
      * The diversity: People of different genders and races getting prominent roles.
      * The idea that Rey doesn’t have to be connected to the Skywalker or
      Kenobi blood line to be a significant wielder of the force.

      What I disliked:
      * The pointlessness of the whole casino plotline. They accomplished absolutely nothing. There had to be better ways to develop a relationship between Finn & Rose
      * Death fakeouts: The Leia thing was just dumb. They should have committed to the Finn sacrifice, or not wasted their time.
      * Not enough Rey & Luke. I would have liked to see more of their relationship.

      * Lack of background to Snoke: The response to this I have been reading is “We didn’t have background information on Emperor Palpatine in the original trilogy.” And that’s fair. But there were 3 movies (Really 2, I guess, because he is barely mentioned in A New Hope) to understand that this guy was scarier than Vader, and that he was responsible for directly turning Vader to the dark side. He was an MENTAL threat, not just a physical one. There was a legitimate fear that Luke wasn’t going to make it out of their encounter on the light side. Snoke was physically powerful, but what else? His death had absolutely ZERO impact. Even Count Dooku’s death in the prequels had more weight, and I thought it was a bit cheap after his prominence in Episode II.

      In general, I think it was very daring to completely close the books on the Skywalker family. Especially since Leia will likely die in the very beginning of Episode IX. I can respect that step from a storytelling perspective. However, one of the things I truly enjoyed about the original trilogy (and yes, even the prequels) is the connection to the mythology and spiritual nature of the force. Even though the main complaint of Episode VII was that it was a rehash of Episode IV (Again, that’s fair), it still felt connected to the original mythology with new and interesting characters, and I loved watching Rey slowly discover her power and connect to it.

      The actual war parts of this movie were my least favorite parts. If Episode IX turns into a war movie with lightsabers, I’m going to be disappointed.

      • Violina23

        I should add that since I sat on the movie for a few more days, the more and more I liked the direction they took Luke in the story. They made him flawed, he made mistakes, and there were repercussions to his mistakes.

        I just wanted MORE OF THAT STORY! The B-storylines should have taken half the time, and the Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff should have been twice as long. The whole slow-chase thing totally felt like an episode of Battlestar Gallactica

        • the sky is falling

          I really think they could have started with this being the first movie of the new trilogy. Take out Laura Dern’s character and have Han play that part, take out the Casino side-quest and expand Lukes part so in the second film he finally agrees to help

          • the sky is falling

            The more I think about it, I think people would be a lot happier had Han Solo gone out like a badass. Also, prequel trilogy shoulda started with Attack of the Clones, better executed

          • Violina23

            Can’t argue with any of this at all. If Han had gone out like Laura Dern it would been a much more satisfying bookend to his character, considering how he started.

          • the sky is falling

            Have to say, I think this movie will grow on me. It didn’t exactly tick off all the boxes I wanted ticked off, but overall, it was more interesting than TFA.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        I’ve seen it, so whatever, but shouldn’t that last point of things you did like be under spoiler text?

        • Violina23

          I suppose so. It has been edited 🙂

  • the sky is falling

    This season would have been great with a better cast, the challenges were great this seaon (except for marbles)

    But, we have started a couple new bad things.
    1. Forced fire challenge. Much better when it happens based on circumstance
    2. Idol can now be played at any time. Didn’t matter this time, but I think it lessens the interest in idol, people will just make sure to have a backup plan now.
    3. Door has been opened for challenges based on luck. Just edit better if you want to spend more time on family visit.

    Ghost island seems like a stupid idea, but not nearly as terrible as Heroes Healers Hustlers

    • The female cast members are all seemed interesting, unfortunately the majority of them did not last long.

      • the sky is falling

        I guess they could try Amazon Part 2 to see how it goes. A woman won that one. We are pretty close on men vs women winners I think.

  • prettyboyprobst

    PRP-peeps: Grab another cup of egg nog and sit down by the fire with me. There is something I need to tell you.

    So, I‘ve been doing some digging, and it seems like Ryan is was hiding something else from us, other than the idol in his pants. Of course we know more about his private life than anyone has ever asked for, and he graciously gave us insights to his beautiful mind by drawing the choicest of analogies. We know that he worked as a bellhop and from pregame press and we know that he has worked for both parties in Congress, too.

    But what if I told you that he has another, more secretive employer? What if I told you that he also works for SANTA CLAUS? That‘s right, Ryan Ulrich – or should I say Ryan Elfrich – has been living a double life!
    Bellhopping for most of the year, but after Thanksgiving he spends most of his time just sitting on shelves in children‘s rooms, until it‘s time to report back to Santa.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/142b692835a6cbd8e9c05fac23b3edd65bb8a4066b64c41a0d141ec98d5571ed.jpg

    What is that, you don‘t believe me? You don‘t think elves are real? You‘re accusing me of having tempered with that picture? How dare you, but water under the bridge…
    I say you want to believe, because in your hearts you know it‘s true. You just don‘t know how and I‘m here to help with that. Look at this for starters:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c0d79b9d8ef31009674527f36de2127ffcc908e954eb35e12ddc3b4072e46e65.jpg
    They‘re clearly kin.

    Wait, you‘re still not convinced?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/14c9f3fc04c9223945c12e5c9e000302310ad13b8518057f38ab30380fd2c832.jpg
    HOW MUCH PROOF DO YOU NEED???
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc0adcbabc9553381e231211b81bb3b1f5b2e0f103995623472e8fdbd2711b14.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b199fab79dcb7868cd32d15613fe8b2c6847c4a265c2d4822b63bb36c428588.jpg

    So now that we have established that Santa‘s elves are real and that Ryan „Ulrich“ is indeed one of them, this makes the finale of HvHvH appear in an entirely new light:

    Isn‘t a vote for Chrissy or Ben a vote against Santa and the northpole way of life? Isn‘t every ballot that doesn‘t read RYAN another signature under the declaration of WAR on Christmas and everything that is good and holy?
    And was it really wise for the jurors to vote for anybody but Ryan, if they didn‘t want their Christmas holidays ruined?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0f8928a759720d7adeb205e4cd46f1bc951aae03d7265cd5627b51f181d75551.jpg [pic]

    I can guaran-damn-tee you they didn‘t find what they wished for under the tree this morning – if they‘re even still alive – and they have nobody but themselves to blame for it.

    Not voting for Ryan on an episode that airs just days before Christmas is akin to kicking puppies the rest of the year. Why would they do that? How could they? Monsters! Just look at him again:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/137f5b7fe52bbce294202dc93e035b0a7427627ca2358687e146e27ad81b6c87.jpg
    (This one is called: My body is trapped here on this exotic beach, but in my mind I‘m indoors with lots of cupcakes, like: enough to rest my little elf-body on)

    Devon knew what‘s up. He‘s a bright, beautiful light and that goes well witheverything Christmas.
    That‘s why he is the only cast-member of this season who got one of these bad boys:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0027d19846b6974baf5a44295ca31894ae60782123cdb659abeab01eefb0bd4e.jpg
    And because Ryan can be himself when he‘s with Devon and vice versa, he even got one of these:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aa58cd9646c79f0307b83648f72b017e5e2c381e092d650155f993520a08dbdc.jpg
    [you hear’d me]

    h/t to whoever noticed the resemblance first. I don‘t remember where I saw it.

    Bonus: There is something else that Ryan wasn‘t entirely forthcoming about on the show…
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/65a4ecb933f2dd0579f88493fb15c240ee3748308b7c952d20c04a7ee25d0ebe.jpg

  • corndogshuffle

    Just got to spend time with family on Christmas. My family is huge – my mom is 7th of 9 and my dad is 1st of 5. My dad is retired Navy and we moved every other year or so, so my only lifelong friends are my cousins. On that note, knowing anyone for two or more years is a long time for me.

    Maybe it sounds corny and maybe (well, definitely) I’m a bit tipsy, but I’ve been on PRP for about three years and that makes you some of my longest loved friends. So thanks PRP, and I hope all of you had a wonderful 25th of December!

  • So, I want to ask everyone what their favorite PRP website moment of 2017 was. I have two. Feel free to be selfish as I am going to be:
    1) Getting to write an article about one of my favorite players of all time: http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/survivor-fan-friction-colby-donaldson/

    2) Obviously this: http://disq.us/p/1j6zs6y

    • Blurry Denzel

      In a shocking move, I have a whole list. It is super selfish. Too lazy for links. Doing this countdown style.

      7. Sarah Lacina article (my first contribution)
      6. Helping Super Duper Fan discover his love for Ashley Underwood
      5. Hannah Shapiro Fan Friction
      4. Name change to Blurry Denzel
      3. Writing about the Cirie/Michaela beach moment
      2. PRP NYC meetup (whole week)
      1. Creating my avatar

      Early contender for 2018: Getting Barbara Anderson to finally watch Palau while she convinces me I’ve been overrating Cambodia this whole time

    • Max_Jets

      I will continue the selfishness and go with
      1. Getting a specific shout out in the episode 13 podcast this season.
      2. Getting an upvote from possibly the real Adam Klein: http://disq.us/p/1lf9lyv

      • Super duper fan

        “Getting an upvote from possibly the real Adam Klein”

        You lucky bastard!

      • Unless this is a massive troll job, I think that is the real Adam Klein.

    • Super duper fan

      My selfish PRP moments are:
      4. Discovering the greatness of Ashley Underwood.
      3. My first contribution to the site being about one of my favourite Survivor players (http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/survivor-fan-friction-adam-klein/)
      2.The Great Gif War I (http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/survivor-game-changers-week-6-predictions/#comment-3250970908) and The Great Gif War II (http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/purple-rock-survivor-podcast-heroes-vs-healers-vs-hustlers-episode-6-play-survivor/#comment-3599069274)
      1. And last but no least, finding a courage to finally start posting here. This site is the best, and I hope the next year will be a bit better for us in terms of Survivor seasons, and our own lives.

    • Alkanarra

      1) Watching Marlin M fall apart as Ben won gave me wonderful flashbacks to gouis during Michelle’s victory.
      2) The unnecessary shoehorning of Buffy into every liveblog of Game Changers.
      3) The Big Ballers’ rise to greatness.

      • Violina23

        Buffy is *always* necessary

      • Like I said that night, marlin was MVP.

    • Maritimer

      Em’s post after the Varner incident is my number one and the coming together of the community in those comments. It came from an ugly occurrence on Survivor but was very good and meant a lot to me based on life events at the time (which I talk about on that post and won’t rehash here)

      Secondly is just generally starting to fully particpate in the community here. I was kind of around in post-merge MvGX but really started participating in the pre-GC articles and the Nicaragua re-watch and its made two bad seasons (both of which I may not have finished without PRP) so much more enjoyable

      • Blurry Denzel

        I did my list but in all seriousness Em’s post and Shirin’s post about Michaela are actually my favorite moments of PRP 2017. I already thought this site and especially this community was special but those posts really shined a light on that.

    • This is a great idea. I’m going to make this into a separate post.

    • the sky is falling

      I have to say, same. My personal choices…
      1) Getting to write an article about one “the best” players of all time:
      http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/survivor-fan-friction-phillip-sheppard/

      2) Doubting ‘podcast’ as a genre

  • forever1267

    I watched this season finale at an airport bar near LAX, and without sound, I assumed that, somehow, someway, Ben had convinced Ryan or Chrissy to keep him, which was what really enforced the fire making tie. That would have been even more impressive to his win.

  • forever1267

    Thank you to the shoutout on the podcast. You can always do a TAR recap, since it’s probably in the same time zone. Thank you for all that you do!!!!

  • Other Scott

    Okay I’m way way way way late to the party because of holidays and never really getting a moment on the computer – I am going to critique the podcast a bit though.

    I think you guys were overly concerned about critiquing the FANS of the show, trying to tear apart bad arguments and pointing out fan biases and all that stuff, and I think through all those trees you lost sight of the forest a bit.

    The season was not good, the ending was not good. And I think in your rant about fairness and defending the fact Chrissy absolutely should have lost and was not robbed by the F4 twist or by the jury and all that stuff you lost track of why this was such a crap ending.

    It’s because Ben’s win wasn’t really SURVIVOR that we like or anyone is all that interested in. It’s not that it’s not Survivor or that it was out of line for the show or unfair or impure or any of that. As you established all the stuff that happened near the end of the season has precedent, even the F4 twist being put in at the last moment. Survivor isn’t always fair and that’s something the players and fans have to live with. The problem is that this season was won because of ability to find immunity idols. How is that good TV? How is it good TV for the winner to get through every tribal council not through strategic skill, not through the social bonds that are so important on the show, but because they’re better at scavenger hunting than anyone else. It’s not that it’s impure – it’s just that it’s not a winner’s story I have any interest whatsoever in watching. And I felt the same way about Mike’s win in Worlds Apart.

    I think the podcast would have been better served focusing less on why the shows fans are bad and why the SHOW ITSELF was bad, I know fan bashing has kind of become your guys thing but as possibly the most open and unrestrained podcast that I listen to anyways I would have definitely preferred a deeper discussion on how the show failed this season and not only on how its fans are idiots. Because you both 100% agree the show failed this season.

    • purplerockandy

      It’s been awhile, but I thought that I fully addressed this one the: I DISAGREE WITH THE NOTION THAT WINNING WITH IDOLS IS BAD. I fucking swear I yelled about it and everything. In fact, I’d go through the reasons why I disagree, but I swear I already did that in detail (in short, they are part of the game. If they are part of the game, then they need to fucking matter every once and awhile). Moreover, the season didn’t suck because of idols. That would suggest that if there wasn’t idols, the strategy and social game of the season would’ve won the day. The issue with that? The strategy and social game of the season sucked. So Ben didn’t rob us of much because there wasn’t much there.

      As to your second point, I agree that we spent a lot of time this season critiquing fan theories. I’m guessing the biggest reason for that is that the content of the season itself didn’t do enough to hold our interest. The impression I got from people that listen is that everyone struggled to find things to say about this season other than “it sucks but we don’t want to say that because we’re a more polite podcast”. We, of course, had no issue saying it sucked, but that was getting repetitive. So instead, I fought with people who dared suggest it didn’t. Very good use of my time.

      I’m hoping next season will give me more to talk about so I don’t get stuck in that rut. Because I don’t disagree with the notion that it gets old after awhile.

      • Other Scott

        Well, it depends what you mean by bad. I think winning by idols is not bad because they shouldn’t be part of the game, or that it’s illegitimate, or anything like that. And it’s okay if they matter in a sense they save someone for a vote when they need it. But my issue is that TO ME, finding an idol, playing it, finding an idol, playing it, finding an idol, playing it, winning a mandatory fire challenge – that’s an extremely UNINTERESTING way for someone to win. There’s nothing to discuss there, there’s nothing to dig into, there’s nothing to analyze. Guy found idols. That’s all there is to the winning story this season.

        I’m not saying that if not for the idol bonanza the winner would have been good, or would have been properly rewarded – but at least you could dig into the result and there would be deeper socio-strategic for why they won, even if that’s not due to anything they did as a player. Say what you want about Michele winning, but at the very least her winning was a result that everyone could sink their teeth into and try to learn something from. There’s none of that here.

        • purplerockandy

          Agree that it’s less interesting. Disagree that there’s nothing to be learned here. Pretty simple lesson: don’t let your target keep finding idols.

          • Other Scott

            Is that stuff that was learned by anyone? It seems pretty self evident.

            Like I think the players out there knew that they had to keep Ben from getting idols, he just outworked them by searching while they slept and they just weren’t diligent enough to keep a constant watch on him.

        • purplerockandy

          And if you are a target… keep looking for idols.

    • purplerockandy

      But to get into why the show failed, my opinion is that interesting: sometimes shit just fails to collasce. I know most people blame the show and idols and advantages and stuff, but I don’t. I blame these players. Obviously, that falls to casting, but I don’t even necessarily think that it was a failure so much as sometimes shit just doesn’t come together as expecting. So, again, not much to talk about every week.