Purple Rock Survivor Podcast: Heroes vs Villains Watch-Along Episodes 4-5

We’re back with the second instalment of the Survivor: Heroes vs Villains Watch-Along. This episodes covers the fourth and fifth episodes of the season and the continued fall from grace for the Heroes tribe.


Purple Rock Survivor podcast: Heroes vs Villains Watch-Along Episodes 4-5

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Andy and Emma continue the rewatch of perhaps the greatest season in Survivor history. In this podcast, we talk about:

  • Coach coming thiiiiiiis close to having an actual human moment on Survivor.
  • The continued inversion of roles between the Heroes and Villains tribes.
  • The Heroes tribe’s biggest problem.
  • Why anyone would refuse free chocolate.
  • Who is getting the hero edit of the season.
  • Did Cirie screw up or just take a bad beat?
  • How Tom was awesome, at least until he was voted out.
  • Should JT have chosen Tom over the hobbled James?
  • Would things have been different if Tom and Cirie had aligned rather than battled one another?
  • Hot bods and beards and stuff.

Thanks for watching along with us!

  • Black Dynamite

    It was devastating to see Cirie go. I understand why she wanted Tom gone. Tom is more dangerous than the rest of the Heroes tribe but I think patience would’ve really helped in this case. Just ride the Candice hate wave this time. Tom and Colby are still on the outs before they target Cirie and they obviously don’t give a shit about challenge performance despite the words coming out their mouths. Cirie would’ve been safe for awhile. Signs of a excellent season though when your favorite person is out early and you still greatly love the rest of the episodes.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I massively agree on your assessment.

  • Kemper Boyd

    I haven’t listened as I am at work but my view on Cirie is that it was a little from column A a little from column B. I think she lost sight of how she got to top 3 and top 4 in her first two seasons, being less dangerous at the beginning and taking control later worked for her, she tried to grab too much control early here when she didn’t need to.
    I’m hoping she can rein it in this next one and go far. I fear she and Sandra will target each other, greatness recognises greatness and all that.

    • It helps that they are not on the same tribe.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Yeah but post merge, don’t hope for it if they are both there.

        • Alkanarra

          If two most unathletic and notoriously sneaky female players are able to both slip into the merge on totally separate teams then it will really have been a bonkers early game.

          • Yeah, something has gone wrong (gloriously wrong!) if neither of those two get targeted.

          • Diego Armando

            I’ve resigned myself to Sandra going extremely early. I am unsure if even she can dodge that 2 victory bullet.

          • If she can survive her tribe’s first TC, it will be a win for me.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You should choose her in the fantasy league.

          • I am laughing over here. Are you trying to Rodney me, good sir?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Ma’am, I am certainly NOT a sneak!

          • Hmm…

          • Kemper Boyd

            I am already considering going for the world’s worst challenge team in Sanda, Cirie, Ciera and Sarah (also alliteration is part of the process).

          • Don’t forget that there is another famously unathletic and sneaky female player on the board.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Not really, life is very different in a returnee season. Decisions that seems crazy are made because winning challenges is often less important than feeling secure in your group.

          • andythesaint

            You’d think… but winning challenges a lot sure helped Jeremy find a cushy position.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I don’t think losing Vytas was the issue that sent Ta Kao (sp?) to tribal the next time. Then the split was so uneven that the ability to win challenges wasn’t a choice.

          • andythesaint

            It was less losing Vytas and more not losing Abi.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Fair. Joe makes everything unfair. Then Ankor comes along and is given a terrible beach and Abi.

    • andythesaint

      A point I meant to make about Cirie: don’t get your hopes up about her teaming up with your favs. First Yau Man, the Tom. She’s not really all that interested in that sort of thing.

      • Kemper Boyd

        greatness recognises greatness and on Survivor that usually means they want to vote them off. Even Rob v Russell is that, two guys who recognise that the other is similar to them and needs to get the other one out.

        • I think you mean iron sharpens iron.

          • Kemper Boyd

            No because iron sharpens iron is Coach’s reason to keep strong people around. What I mean here is that great players recognise others who are great and target them immediately even when it’s not advantageous (Tom and Cirie).

          • Is it sorta like Ethan and Richard in All Stars?

  • Two Danielle-related thoughts
    1) does her girly bikini go against her captain of sports persona?
    2) does she look different than she did in Panama?

    • andythesaint

      Yes and yes.

      • I am not trying to body-shame Danielle. Her face just looks really different in HvV than it did in Panama to me at least.

        • Hornacek

          Too many full fat salads.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Andy is correct on her looking different but she is about 4 years older in HvV and her hair is darker, I think the darker hair makes a huge difference, go to wikia and look at her two pics and facially she looks similar but the dark hair doesn’t wash her out. I will say a girl can be a captain of sports and like girly stuff, I am not that girl, but I played football (soccer) with a lot of girls who were very girly outside the game.

      • It’s not that. It’s her mouth that looks weird to me.

        FWIW: I like her look in Panama.

      • My apologies for sounding super gender-stereotyped. It just reads weird,especially after reading stuff about how they were trying to force Candice into more revealing and girly clothing when she wanted to wear a sports bra.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I believe I read that they told Vytas his underwear weren’t flashy enough or something like that.

          • Purplerockmatt

            it didn’t showcase his thunder?

          • I believe you mean idol.

          • It’s weird they did it with a male. Usually, it’s done with young females (Purple Kelly is your classic example of this).

          • sharculese

            You’re really not helping your reputation as the official PRP gossip-monger. 😛

          • Is it gossip if it was shared by Reality Blurred?

            Wait, don’t answer that.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I can imagine that, Candice is clearly a very sensible woman, to comfortably compete in these challenges a sports bra would be the best choice for any woman but when you look at the women allowed to wear them it’s older women or women you can tell are considered athletic but not attractive (Natalie/Nadiya come to mind).
          Note: I know Candice did eventually get allowed to wear a sports bra for HvV.

          • Yeah, it’s weird because normally Candice would just be the pretty blonde girl but she has also had this athletic edge to her, even in Cook Islands. That screws with Production in a similar way that Andrea does (although Andrea always seems to have eyeliner on the island).

    • Diego Armando

      Her breasts legitimately terrified me. I kept thinking that they were going to explode at some point.

      • I believe on TV Tropes, one of the tropes associated with her is “Gag Boobs”.

      • Hornacek

        Do breasts do that? I skipped a lot of Health classes in junior high.

        • Trust me, real breasts do not. Fake, on the other hand, might “explode” and have some of the implant leak.

  • Black Dynamite

    I soon will be able to say that the number of seasons of Survivor that I haven’t seen will go from three to two. I am about halfway through Africa. So far I’m not a fan. The cast is okay but nothing special and the increased focus the early seasons have on the people and their day to day hurts a season like this. Not fun for me to see people on the verge of death repeatedly. Just a horrible location for the show. The standouts of the cast are Clarence, T-Bird and Ethan. I’m now retroactively upset the first two never played again. Hopefully the season can finish strong and the downfall of Lex is satisfying. He’s good to root against. Also I wish Yankee fans like myself had a better hat representative than Chad. Red Sox gets the great Boston Rob and the Braves get T-Bird. This situation needs to be rectify.

    • andythesaint

      I’ll expect your list of best uses of an MLB hat on Survivor on my desk by noon.

      • Black Dynamite

        Not really much of a list
        1. Boston Rob
        2. T-Bird
        3. Anyone I may have forgotten
        4. Chad

        • Diego Armando

          Clarence had a Tigers hat. I am literally wearing a Tiger’s shirt as I type this.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          If I ever get on, I’ll be the one in the Giants hat.

          • Black Dynamite

            Just make sure you go on in an even year.

          • I will get on the same season with a Royals hat just to spite you, even though I am a bigger Cardinals fan.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            A Cardinals hat would be much more effective in spiting me. We beat the Royals and the Cards are my second least favorite team!

          • Boy, you are breaking my Missouri heart. First we lose the Rams and now this.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Okay I hate football and would rather this remain a non-football town, but in Los Angeles’s defense: We had the Rams first.

          • That’s fair but I mean you all have enough sports team. Let St. Louis have a football team! Our closest NBA team is in Oklahoma City, which is ridiculous.

          • Black Dynamite

            Take the Jaguars. I’m pretty sure Jacksonville won’t even notice.

          • Ooh..that’s tempting. How many football teams does Florida have? I can only think of three: Jags, Bucs, and Dolphins.

          • Black Dynamite

            Yeah, they have three and from years of living in Florida, I realize that they are a distant third among pro teams and rank behind several Florida college football teams.

          • Well, that’s the South for you.

          • Black Dynamite

            The south and football. I like football, they breathe football.

          • Oh yeah…I am so thankful that I’m in basketball country except for the fact that I am not good at basketball and everyone in my hometown breathes basketball.

          • I actually ranked them in a staff chat the other day. The Jaguars come in 6th, behind the Gators, Seminoles, Dolphins, Hurricanes, and Bucs. If any of the other schools here had any sustained football success, they’d probably drop the Jags further down the list.

          • Black Dynamite

            I wouldn’t be surprised if some top notch high school programs had more credibility among Floridians than the Jags.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Do you want the Dodgers? You can have the Dodgers.

          • Ooh…that’s intriguing because of the historical context around the team. I am open to either that or the Clippers.

          • Black Dynamite

            I could never wear my Yankee hat if I make it. I don’t need to give them a reason to vote me out.

          • Oh yeah, don’t do that.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Does Gervase’s Eagles shirt count?

          • Black Dynamite

            No. That was specifically an MLB list but if I expanded to all sports than Danni Boatwright would be second with her Chiefs gear and Get case would be fourth after T-Bird with the Eagles shirt.

          • sharculese

            But where is Parvati? College sports still count!

          • Black Dynamite

            I’m really dropping the ball on this hastily put together, half assed list. Put Parvati at 2 between Rob & Danni.

          • sharculese

            I’ll take it!

          • Did Parvati have UGA gear?

          • sharculese

            Yeah, the camo hat she wears in Micronesia and HvV is Georgia apparel. Green Bay and UGA share the trademark on that design. If it’s green on gold it’s the Packers, if it’s black on white it’s the Dawgs.

            The camo G hat is a big thing with frats and sororities, and while Parvati was in one of the sororities where being good at school matters, she was still in that culture, so it doesn’t surprise me at all that she has one.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Speaking of MLB, I saw your Nationals jersey in the podcast. Is “Montreal” Canadian for “Washington”?

        • andythesaint

          Go fuck yourself. Sil vous plait.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      The Braves don’t deserve T-Bird.

      • sharculese

        The 2001 Braves still did!

        • Black Dynamite

          They messed up by not beating Arizona in the NLCS and taking their rightful place as WS runner-ups to the Yanks. Could’ve saved 12 year old me a lot of pain.

          • sharculese

            Choking in the playoffs is just what Atlanta teams do. See also, the Falcons.

          • andythesaint

            Can we even consider Hawks loses chokes, or just being the Hawks?

          • sharculese

            No, that’s just the Hawks being the Hawks.

          • Black Dynamite

            I believe the Hawks have the second longest active playoff streak. Yet I can only vaguely remember a couple of those teams.

          • Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford were entertaining early-round playoff fodder.

          • Black Dynamite

            Yeah, the year they took Boston with the big three to a very surprising Game 7 was a fun time and the year they got the 1 seed on the east before being demolished by LeBron and the Cavs are the ones I remember. They probably reached their ceiling. It’s tough in basketball to win without multiple superstars. While Joe Johnson was great at times he was not a superstar

          • sharculese

            Atlanta has never been a basketball city, and, based on crowd at the few home games I’ve watched this year, we’re not a baseball city either (but SunTrust Field will totally fix that.)

            Remember on San Juan del Sur when Wes is excitedly talking to John Rocker about “the team of the 90s?” That excitement was real. It’s gone, now.

          • sharculese

            Our other great sports tradition is someone deciding hockey is totally gonna take off in Atlanta and then giving up and moving the team to Canada. Which has happened twice, now.

          • Black Dynamite

            My football team has the opposite problem. Years of incompetence with flashes of brilliance in two separate years culminating in SB wins over the Pats. I’m happy about it but it’s fucking confusing to watch.

          • andythesaint

            It does make evaluating Eli all but impossible.

          • Black Dynamite

            Absolutely!! I think he makes the Hall of Fame. The writers love SB championships and due to the fact that he never gets hurt, he actually has accumulated great stats. While I love him and greatly appreciate what he’s done for the Giants, I don’t think he’s consistent enough over the years to be considered a HoF caliber player.

          • Diego Armando

            He did get a Game of Thrones character named partially after him: Wun-Wun the giant.

          • andythesaint

            That was Phil Simms. Eli is #10.

          • sharculese

            I do believe you’re missing the pun here.

          • Actually, you are missing the pun here.

          • andythesaint

            Phil Simms wore 11. One-One. Wun-Wun.

          • I’d take choking in the playoffs over the Browns’ race to 0-16.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Did the 2001 Braves do the chop? Did they exist?

          • sharculese

            They’ve been doing the chop for all of my living memory. Supposedly it started in the early 90s. Ed Kilgore, an ex-Democratic strategist turned political writer brags about being there for the game where it was initiated. I’m not sure why it’s a thing he brags about.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            It was a rhetorical question.

          • sharculese

            Nah, I get that. I was giving context because *sigh* the fucking tomahawk chop.

            But also, T-Bird is from Dacula. I have friends from Dacula. Let’s just say they are not the kind of people who get what’s wrong with the chop.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            As an admitted coastal California snob, I am less than surprised.

      • Diego Armando

        As a mid-Michigan resident, I am required by local law to defend them for having Lansing native John Smoltz on their team. I have seen a wall dedicated to him at an Applebee’s.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          A wall at an Applebee’s? Well, hell! He probably doesn’t even give a shit about the Hall of Fame anymore!

          • Diego Armando

            I was there for a group meeting and saw that while walking around. He also has a star on our sad looking Mid-Michigan walk of fame.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I wish we had one of those. We just have the Alamo, which is where John Wayne died.

          • Diego Armando

            I think ours has maybe 5 people, Smoltz and Magic Johnson are the only 2 I remember.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Please tell me that Gary Hawkins also has a star.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          I can think of no higher honor.

    • sharculese

      Between Parvati and T-Bird, the state of Georgia just kinds of runs away with us when it comes to great players repping our teams.

    • The way Clarence’s tribe treats him about the beans made me pretty uncomfortable. I understand being upset with him, but it crosses a line at a certain point.

      Are there any other sports teams that were represented via hats on Survivor? Danni had a KC Chiefs hat (and shirt, I think).

      • Black Dynamite

        My least favorite moment of the season so far. They we’re extremely harsh and over the top and their anger. It continued long after Clarence was super apologetic and fuck Tom for his sending a message votes.

      • Not a team recognized by hat, but Tasha IIRC has a tattoo of the St. Louis Rams (RIP) logo on her wrist.

      • Max_Jets

        If I’m not mistaken, don’t they just not show any footage of what actually happens with Clarence & Diane? I don’t know if they wanted to avoid making Clarence look bad or if they wanted to avoid making our white heroes look bad, but I’m guessing it’s the latter.

        • I just assumed that they have any footage of it ala the Gervase calling the women cows.

        • Black Dynamite

          I was curious about that too. I remember Diane giving a smirk during the argument which made me assume she was the one who lied.

    • Purplerockmatt

      ugh Africa. I hate Africa. you nail why, the setting is just such a hindrance to everything that makes Survivor great. And I say this as someone who thinks Big Tom is one of the funniest survivors ever

      • Diego Armando

        This is a situation of having a mediocre cast and sticking them in a location that never should have been greenlit. Tom was entertaining, despite his pervy nature, his arguments with Clarence and the fact that I only understood 45% of what he said.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          45% is also about how much the the people who do the subtitles understood of what Tom said.

  • sharculese

    FYI, I don’t know whose end this issue is on but I had no video feed last night. If I scrolled along the time bar I could see your faces, but the actual video was just a green field.

    • andythesaint

      Odd. Anyone else have that issue? Not that I’d know what to do about it.

      • sharculese

        Is it possibly related to the fact that my phone just gave me a notification that you guys were gonna start broadcasting in 15 minutes?

        • andythesaint

          No, I think that was a separate problem of me not looking at dates.

    • I didn’t have that issue. What I end up doing is watching YouTube for a while.

      • sharculese

        I tried both Google and Youtube and got a green screen with both of them.

        • That’s odd…my only issue was lagging but that is because I live in the country.

  • Alkanarra

    All this macho male villains time was fine and whatever, but damn did it cost Courtney a chance to do her thing. I understand wanting to set up the Rob-Russel-Coach dynamic, but couldn’t they have spent a single moment of the first seven episodes focusing on something else? Or, if they just absolutely couldn’t except any narrative that wasn’t Rob-Russel-Coach related, at least have some of it be through Courtney brutally making fun of them. If there’s ever been a player in the history of this game whose commentary is valuable regardless of how little they themselves are influencing the game, it’s Courtney.

    • That’s essentially Courtney’s entire purpose, and they barely used her.

      • Alkanarra

        Exactly. Why even cast her if you’re not going to let her say mean things about dumb people? And the worst part is they’re trying to tell a “Coach is an idiot” story and Courtney is right there, twiddling her thumbs.

        • Courtney needs at least two confessionals in every episode, plus an additional confessional to roll her eyes at anything that Coach or Russell says.

          • Alkanarra

            Maybe just picture-in-picture? The show runs as normal, but Courtney will be in a small box in the corner pantomiming everything?

          • I assume this is not limited to seasons in which she is playing, right?

            Or we can just have Courtney replace Probst.

          • Alkanarra

            I love it. She would definitely change the tone of medical evacuations a wee bit.

      • sharculese

        I touched on this in one of the entries for my “most useless player” list (which I sent to you yesterday, btw,) but I feel like the problem is that, in all-star seasons, having complicated shit going on makes it easier for production to decide they need less color commentary (note: I am not comparing Courtney to the person I made this observation about.)

        China has a lot of downtime that needs to be filled. HvV does not, and it’s easy to understand why they would look at Courtney’s confessionals and think “these are funny, but we have weird game moves to explain.”

        Do I want more Courtney? Yes, who the fuck doesn’t? But I understand why there’s less of her.

        • Ooh…I think I know who it is. #spit ?

          • sharculese

            No comment.

          • I am so excited to read your work and argue with you about it.

          • sharculese

            Aw thanks. It’ll take you a while. The final version clocked in just under 6000 words.

          • Hey, I got some time to kill. Although, I have apparently a jam-packed weekend since I am going to see Ghostbusters and possibly go to the local amusement park and grade papers and watch some more HvV.

          • We’re going to break it up into two posts. They’ll go up Monday and Tuesday, assuming I’m done editing.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      You are speaking my language and I appreciate it.

    • Black Dynamite

      Her facial expressions alone were some of the best parts of the season. There was one challenge where she sat out with Sandra and Parvati. I badly would’ve preferred to just listen to their thoughts while sitting on the bench than Probst commentating on the challenge.

    • Diego Armando

      You have both Tyson and Courtney and you don’t give them time to say one-liners. Why even cast them?

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        That’s what I don’t like about this season. Those are the perfect people to have confessionals from. My first Tyson season was Blood vs. Water and I was glad that he won. Next I watched HvV and wondered why this guy was good enough in his first season to have been brought back. Then… I saw Tocantins.

        • Purplerockmatt

          Tyson talking to Coach is enough for me as much as i wanted more, because that is so perfect. He immediately has an entire list ready for Coach and I like to imagine that if Survivor wanted they had like 10 minutes of cut footage as he just kept listing stuff.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “Coach, I can help you through this if you want, but you’re gonna have to stop doing these twenty-two things that you do several times daily.”

          • Purplerockmatt

            And I know you don’t want to hear what I have to say, but by saying this I know you will ask how I can help you, and therefore I will have the opportunity to be a good friend and yet also completely destroy you on camera

          • sharculese

            Tyson is the ur-troll.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            As I was watching that scene I was already relishing the Tyson confessional about it. Weird that they didn’t give it to us.

          • sharculese

            My roommate and I watched HvV together and afterwards, anytime he got his yoga mat, I would always tell him “go do your yoga where no one can see you.”

          • That’s honestly Tyson’s highlight because the other thing he is memorable for in HvV is not a positive thing.

    • Fun fact time: according to this Sporcle quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/hatessisters/survivor-top-5-confessionalists-per-season), Courtney does not even crack the top 5 of China confessionals. That means that Courtney, even with minimal screen time, can excel in giving side eyes or even camp life and TC snark.

      • Alkanarra

        I did much better at though than I thought I would. I don’t know if that’s a thing I should be proud about though.

        • I aced it…twice.

          • Alkanarra

            Way to make me feel inadequate about a thing I was already embarrassed at being too good at.

          • That was not my attempt…I was trying to show solidarity.

            Remember, I have made Sporcle Survivor quizzes before.

          • Alkanarra

            Nah, it’s cool. I’m not exactly disappointed in myself for forgetting who Deena Bennett was.

          • I mean, Deena is a niche character for sure, but a lot of people still love her.

          • andythesaint

            You ARE our trivia person!

          • See. I am earning those nicknames this offseason. I am the Gossip Queen, Trivia Person, Cambodia Contrarian, Agriculture Expert (aka one of the few that actually knew what barrel racing is), and Fantasy League Khaleesi (@godot123:disqus, that’s for you). Basically, I am rivaling Daenerys with the amount of titles I have in this group.

      • Kemper Boyd

        welp, my day at work is ruined.

        • andythesaint

          155

  • Black Dynamite

    One moment I did enjoy during the chocolate discussion was the way Probst shut Colby down He made it real clear who was in charge there.

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    Speaking as one of those weirdos who doesn’t like chocolate, I wonder just how much starvation would change my opinion of a reward. A lot of the time when I’m watching the current season as it airs, I have just eaten a home-cooked meal and am usually having a couple of cookies as I watch, so most of the food rewards aren’t that tempting, especially the dessert oriented ones. In my regular life the offer of chocolate as a reward for something would make me question whether or not the person attempting to inspire me to perform at my best actually thought I was a twelve year old. That’s who chocolate rewards are for. But I wonder if after a week or two in the game I would cheer for it. I still don’t think I would for chocolate. Maybe for hot dogs, which I would rather skip a meal than eat here at home.

    • sharculese

      I think they still get actual food on Chocolate rewards. When Shirin was talking to John and Andy during the Second Chances voting she talked about the Hershey Cafe reward and said that after the chocolate they got chicken wraps.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        That’s neat to know. I’m watching One World right now and I was trying to figure out the how to eat the best food for you during the ice cream reward. “Do you guys have any wheatgrass as a topping?”

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Food rewards have torpedoed enough players (Bruce, Wes, Joe) that I would treat at it as a trap, as long as I wasn’t literally starving (eg, we had plenty of mangoes or fish).

          ETA: Easy for me to say, seeing as I haven’t eaten in all of 25 minutes.

          • sharculese

            The trick is, don’t gorge yourself on meat. I eat a low meat diet and I know that, no matter how hungry I am, I need to be conservative in my meat intake. Cydney knew it too, but apparently Joe did not, and it cost him.

            If you have a chance to get some extra protein, do it. Just be judicious in how you go about it. Listen to how your body feels about what you’re doing rather than charging blindly ahead.

          • I would be terrible at this. I’m completely aware of how awful I feel after consuming absurd quantities of meat, and yet every time I go to the Indian restaurant I eat chicken tikka masala until I need to be wheeled out of there.

    • Violina23

      I’ve often wondered that myself — as I have an extreme hatred for peanut butter (I can’t even stand the SMELL of it, and the chunky variety looks like vomit to me). But it is a source or protein…

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        The nightmare would be winning your first reward challenge and finding out that you won a bunch of black jellybeans and black licorice.

  • Diego Armando

    I am glad that Sandra got more discussion after your massive lack of talk regarding her in your previous podcast. She should get the same level of talk that John gave to Shirin. Although she will come up more later when the season turns into her vs. Russell.

    • Yeah, a lot of those villains are quiet early on, especially the ones that aren’t major targets (basically all of the females except Parvati).

    • *Nobody* deserves the same level of discussion that I gave Shirin.

      You all are so lucky she didn’t win Cambodia. I would have been so fucking insufferable.

    • DrVanNostrand

      **Spoiler alert**
      I love the end of the season when the jury starts openly rooting for Sandra at every single tribal council, but Russell still manages to convince himself that she’s the goatiest goat of all time.

    • andythesaint

      We’ll have PLENTY of opportunity to talk about Sandra. She really wasn’t that present in the first three episodes.

  • Black Dynamite

    I’ve been spending the past couple of weeks trying to fantasy cast a Heroes vs Villains 2 with the following criteria.

    1. No one from the original HvV season
    2. No more than 4 previous winners
    3. No more than 2 players from the same season.

    Coming up with 20 names that I would want to see on a season like this is the easy part. I’m hitting a roadblock with who I would put on the Villains tribe. People who I considered a legitimate villain are with a few exceptions people I wouldn’t want to cast on a season. I find myself having to massively manipulate the criteria of villain. Hopefully I could put together a list that is satisfactory before the end of this watch along. I’m open to cast suggestions, especially for the villain side.

    • Purplerockmatt

      Kass

      • sharculese

        Peter

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Drewche.

          • sharculese

            Okay, now I want to complete this game, while following Black Dynamite’s rules and making sure we have five men and five women.

            My next pick, closing of San Juan del Sur, is Missy.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I forgot about my ex-wife.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Nat Bolton

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      They would also have to be people who have made it pretty far into the game, no? Probably jury members?

      • Black Dynamite

        It’s not a prerequisite but most likely I would put people on a season that I’ve already had a lot of exposure to.

    • Kelley Wentworth? I don’t really think of her as a villain, but she was in opposition to Jeremy, who would definitely be a hero, and she was part of the evil-sounding Witches’ Coven.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        That raises another interesting question: From each season, if a player were brought back, would they be a hero or a villain?

        • Alycia Swift

          Maybe we should get a list of the players each season. This might be a poll. Although the merge might be a cutoff point. I mean, how do you rate someone like Darnell who was out first. He was nice. He was goofy.

      • Black Dynamite

        I never thought of her as a villain either and already had her penciled in on the Heroes side. Throw in some sound bites of her being sneaky and Kimmi calling her group the Witches’ Coven and it would pass the Villains test.

      • andythesaint

        Nah, she was the plucky underdog by the end.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Just because the person they were against was a Hero doesn’t mean someone is a villain.

    • Max_Jets

      Jason, Rodney, Tony, Peter, Pete, Kass, Abi, Twila, Sophie, Shii Ann

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        I refuse to remember a player named Rodney.

        • Or Jason

          • sharculese

            That’s because nobody named Jason has ever played Survivor. There was a Jaison. And there was a Kyle. But there wasn’t a Jason.

          • Black Dynamite

            I’ve always wanted Jaison to return. One of the non Russell Hantz players to pop off the screen for me in Samoa.

          • sharculese

            Agreed. Jaison is fantastic for the first half of the season, and then the storm just seems to destroy him. I’d love to see him on a season where he doesn’t get turned into the walking dead halfway through.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            He’s a triple threat too: beauty, brain, and brawn.

          • Alycia Swift

            Wasn’t there an actual Jason in Fans v Favorites 1? The one who thought Ozzy’s stick was an idol. And on another note, when I type Ozzy, my autocorrect changes it to oozy. How appropriate.

          • Oh yes, the Prince Siska.

        • Hornacek

          You better relax!

      • sharculese

        I didn’t think of that, but Sophie would totally be a villain and it would be awesome.

        • Kemper Boyd

          You mean you didn’t realise a woman who controlled the game and beat the men she worked with wouldn’t be seen as a villain but Survivor producers?

      • Purplerockmatt

        i dont want either Peter or Pete back, but I do want both Peter and Pete back.

        • sharculese

          I argued this when the first casting leak for S34 came out, but I totally want Peter back. He’s about as perfect of a just-before-the-merge boot as you can ask for, he will go out in that spot every time, and it will always be awesome. Peter isn’t a great villain, but he’s a perfect small-time villain.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I was skeptical of this idea when you first floated it, but now that I’ve seen Cirie and Tom crash out early I’m all for it.

          • sharculese

            I basically stole the idea from Andy, who was really beating the drum during Second Chances voting that getting all of our favorites back meant having some of favorites go home early, potentially in an embarrassing fashion. The whole thing with Varner solidified how right he was.

            Having someone like Peter in the cast to be a nuisance for a minute and then crash is a much more satisfying alternative.

          • I get that, but I think I’d rather have favorites go out early than risk a returnee season being dominated by fodder, which is bound to happen at some point. (Imagine if the Heroes didn’t suck at puzzles and Rupert and Amanda took control.) Varner’s early boot may have been disappointing, but he provided a lot more in four episodes than many post-merge boots do over much longer.

          • sharculese

            But that’s the beauty of Peter! A season of newbies managed to realized “well, we have to get rid of that asshole.” I have full confidence that returnees can figure that out, too.

          • I still stand by bringing back Liz Markham, but only if she plays with Stephen and Courtney.

          • Survivor: “Ex”ile Island.

            I’m sure I am the first to come up with that joke.

          • Kemper Boyd

            As I said to Sharcy, one of the joys of a returnee season is seeing which fodder turned themselves into a favourite. Did we think Jeremy would be as dope as he was? probably not, or Wentworth? or Parvati? or even Andrea? Nope.

          • That makes sense. I’m just worried about the possibility of a returnee season dominated by the Ozzies and Ruperts of the world.

          • Kemper Boyd

            OH GOD. Yes this is the worse case scenario.

          • Kemper Boyd

            The joy is sometimes your pre-show favourites crash out but someone you thought “huh” about becomes a new favourite, see Yau Man and Parvati or Shireen and Wentworth.

        • Hornacek

          Are you talking about Pete-bro?

      • Max_Jets

        Katie from Palau would also be a great returnee villain, possibly in the place of one of the non-Tony men (fuck gender balance)

        • Black Dynamite

          Damn, I love the idea of Katie coming back as a villain. Good call.

          • I think the heart thing she got from her time in Palau probably marks her off the returnee list. However, she has a solid job as a reality tv producer, so I don’t see her hankering to come back.

      • sharculese

        But also replace Shii Ann with Heidi, because no more Shii Ann.

        • Max_Jets

          Very sad to keep finding out about so many people’s distaste for the great Shii Ann.

          • I’m confused by Sharc’s opinion on Shii Ann. Admittedly it’s been a while since I’ve seen Thailand or All-Stars, but I don’t remember having a negative opinion of her.

          • andythesaint

            Meh. The fact that two separate groups of people turned on her and found her very annoying might say something about her.

          • Alycia Swift

            I agree. In Thailand, there was a bit of racism against her (about her eating habits. I personally thought she was smart to eat things with protein that others would not. it was a chicken gizzard, I think.) And because of it, she flipped. But the producers also screwed her because they did the non-merge.

            On All-Stars, she got along with her own tribe generally. It was when she was the last left that she was a problem. When she won an immunity and kept herself in the game, some others were annoyed that she celebrated (I think it was Alicia Calloway for one). Big deal. They would done the same if they were in that position. People were still in the game phase where no one flipped until the last five or so, so her trying to get someone to do that and take out someone more powerful annoyed them.

    • Alycia Swift

      I would suggest Mama C. And I’d put her on the Villians tribe. For a lot of the female Villians, it’s a stretch in general anyway. She does side with outright Villians.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Mama C and Trish are two women I see as Villains in this context.

        • Alycia Swift

          I’ve been going back and forth on Trish. I suppose in theory, she could be a villain because of her fight with Lindsay but Lindsay was not innocent. And possibly because of cleaning up Tony’s messes.

    • Kemper Boyd

      V: Jason (32), Rodney (30), Troyzan (24), Silas (3), Burton (7) , Mama C (30), Andrea (22/26), Trish (28), Sophie (23 W) and Nat Bolton (16).

      H: Tai (32), Spencer (28/31), Hayden (27), Eddie Fox (26), Malcolm (25/26) Kim (24 W), Taj (18), Wentworth (29/31) and Nat Anderson (29 W).

      All my winners are women…

    • Other Scott

      Villains: Erik (S19), Deena (S6), John C (S4), Heidi (S6), Fairplay (S7), Ami (S9), Katie (S10), Rodney (S30), Coutney M (S12), Scot (S32)

      Heroes: Aubry (S32), Jon M (S29), Woo (S28), Malcolm (S25), Holly (S21), T-Bird (S3), Wentworth (S29), Taj (S18), Earl (S14), Ian (S10)

  • Serious question time.

    Who looks better in the slip and slide challenge: James or Jeremy?

  • gouis

    IM FAMOUS!!!

    For being a hater. :-/

    • sharculese

      Isn’t that what we all want to be famous for?

      • gouis

        Well we are on an Internet message board, so yes.

  • Black Dynamite

    Yesterday I had an idea to fantasy cast a Heroes vs Villains 2 season with the following criteria:

    1. No one from the original HvV season.
    2. No more than 4 previous winners.
    3. No more than 2 players from the same season.

    I had trouble putting 10 players on the Villains side as a lot of players I wanted back didn’t fit in as a villain for me. Aligning with other villains, voting out alliance members and throwing challenges even if it’s the smart play and just wanting to see certain players on the same tribe are things that can get you cast on my villains tribe. So here are the 20 players in my HvV 2. Thanks to everyone that gave suggestions.

    Heroes Tribe
    Kim (Winner, One World)
    Earl (Winner, Fiji)
    K. Wentworth (San Juan Del Sur/Cambodia)
    Malcolm (Philippines/Caramoan)
    Becky (Cook Islands)
    Jaison (Samoa)
    Taj (Tocantins)
    Hayden (Blood vs Water)
    Cydney (Kaoh Rong)
    Tai (Kaoh Rong)

    Villains Tribe
    Sophie (Winner, South Pacific)
    Natalie A. (Winner, San Juan Del Sur)
    Shane (Panama)
    Burton (Pearl Islands)
    Peih-Gee (China/Cambodia)
    Pete (Philippines)
    Nat Bolton (Micronesia)
    Reynold (Caramoan)
    Trish (Cagayan)
    Judd (Guatemala)

    • That’s a surprisingly good cast. A Heroes tribe with Cydney, Kim, Earl, Taj, and Malcolm would be fucking amazing. I also appreciate that you avoided bringing back anyone from Worlds Apart.

      And continuing the gaze discussion from another thread, that’s also an incredibly attractive cast. Reminds me of when I trolled Andy by casting almost exclusively hot people for a Second Chance season.

      • andythesaint

        And then lost our fan vote by a HUGE margin.

    • Alkanarra

      I know it would mess up your 2/2 winners split, but I could see an argument for Kim being a villain. Not that CBS would ever cast her that way, but she was straight up Lawful Evil.

      Otherwise count me in.

      • I could see her being considered a hero because her win somewhat saves One World from being the worst season ever.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Interesting, I have Natalie Anderson as a Hero. Apart form that I think it’s pretty good.

      • Black Dynamite

        I see her as a hero too but if I was casting the show I would want her to interact with people like Shane, Nat B. and Judd.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Fair, although having someone like her who is savvy and can get loud and confrontational on the Heroes would also be a bonus.

          • Black Dynamite

            Very true.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Basically she’s great and fits anywhere

    • DrVanNostrand

      Upvote, mostly for the villains tribe (I want to see Shane and damn Judd, man!). That tribe is going to be so fucking entertaining!

  • Hornacek

    Kudos to Andy for mentioning our national theme.

    As a wise man once said when comparing the U.S. anthem to ours’, ” “Not a hymn to war like our national anthem, but a sweet soothing hymn like the national anthem theme of Canada””

    • Bold choice to include the bit about all lives mattering in your national theme song, though.

      • Hornacek

        You know, Canadians *are* known for thumbing our noses at civil rights groups.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          You learn something new every day. Until now I didn’t know Canadians were known for anything.

          • Hornacek

            Have you heard about our love of poutine?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I have, and I don’t really know what it is. Fried cheese? It sounds delicious but here in the home of Big Red and the puffy taco we have no access to poutine. I promise you, if I ever have the chance to come to Canada, I will have the poutine.

          • Hornacek

            You are handed a container of poutine when you cross the border.

  • Hornacek

    There’s a voice,
    that keeps on calling me …
    Down the road,
    that’s where I’ll always be …

  • Hornacek

    I liked Emma’s freeze-frame style open mouth grin after she talked about how the heroes should have let Amanda run the tribe and that if she did get to the end then whoever got there with her would win. When you eventually have ID badges for entry into the Purple Rock Tower, that should be the photo used on hers.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Amanda is the worst at FTC, but if she had just been smart enough to not take Todd, wouldn’t she have won anyway?

      • That may be the world where Courtney wins Survivor.

        • DrVanNostrand

          That’s definitely possible. But my guess is that Amanda would get JR, Jaime, PG, and Erik.

          • Well, I think we are in the world where JR and Jaime vote Courtney since JR only voted for Todd based on his response. I feel like he would still be mad with Amanda and there is no way that he throws a vote to Denise. Jaime might vote Courtney here since Courtney won’t say “Vote for Todd”. Of course, she could say “Vote for Denise”, but you never know.

          • DrVanNostrand

            There is literally no world where JR votes for Courtney.

            (Edit: I do think Jaime would be live in that FTC)

          • I think in this scenario, this is where JR votes for Denise maybe. I have no idea.

          • DrVanNostrand

            It could be a nail biter vote. Denise probably gets James and has a shot at J-R. The rest is really close.

          • In this scenario, Courtney for sure gets Frosti and Todd right?

          • DrVanNostrand

            I don’t know. I think Todd really respects strategy, and the objectively right move was to vote him out. He probably votes Courtney, but I wouldn’t rule out Amanda. As for Frosti, I was surprised he voted for Todd in the first place. Was he really mad at Courtney? I don’t know. Short version: I put Frosti and Todd in the ‘probably Courtney’ side.

          • I just assumed that Frosti respected Todd’s answer a bit more than Courtney’s (although Courtney does a better than expected job with FTC). I can see Todd being extremely pissed off at Amanda and going to Ponderosa with the intention of “poisoning” jurors against her (even if it was the best move to get him out). I think in that case, he gives Courtney the respect vote.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Very possible. Todd is an odd hybrid of a gamebot and a super emotional player. It’s like trying to predict what someone like Tony is going to respect. He’s all over the map.

          • Yeah, Todd, Sandra, and Boston Rob are three people I want to see on a jury just to see how they will vote. I can see Todd and Rob being real bitter, but I would be curious as to how Sandra weighs her vote.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Above all, she’d go with her gut. She’d NEVER vote for Russell, and would always vote for a good friend like Courtney. I don’t know what she would’ve done if she had actually convinced the Heroes to go with her, and then had to vote for one of those wankers at the end. (That tribe was the worst)

          • Reportedly, Candice and Sandra lived on the same street in real life (which makes sense since both of their SOs are in the military), so they had a sorta pre-game alliance thing. That is why some people believe that Candice is so gung ho for Sandra at FTC. I think that is also why Sandra would vote for Candice at the end if she got there. If not, Rupert? (shrug shoulders).

          • Kemper Boyd

            You really are earning your keep as the gossip.

          • Of course that is the story on Reddit, so who knows.

          • Courtney definitely gets Frosti’s vote, since I don’t think he was super bitter and I can’t see him voting for Denise or Amanda. I think Peih-Gee votes for Amanda, since she seems like she’d care more about gameplay, but I could see her going for Courtney. JR probably goes for Denise, Jamie votes for Courtney, and I’d think Todd would respect Amanda for voting him out (he doesn’t seem like he’d be a bitter juror, but I also trust Barbara Anderson’s assessment).

            Of course, maybe the world in which Amanda takes Todd out is also the world in which Amanda doesn’t suck at FTC, so perhaps she could get a vote from Jamie or JR.

          • DrVanNostrand

            About Frosti: I would’ve said the same thing, except he voted for Todd. He must have at least been somewhat bitter towards Courtney. I’m not sure how she’d vote.
            JR: I feel pretty good about him voting Amanda. He wouldn’t respect Denise’s game. He doesn’t respect Courtney, period. He’s also a creep and Amanda’s pretty. She definitely gets his vote.

            I’m standing by JR, PG, and Erik, but I do admit she has a tough time getting a 4th vote.

          • My guess is that Frosti was mildly bitter, but was more persuaded by Todd’s jury performance than anger towards Courtney. But “definitely” was a strong word – I could probably see him going either way, just leaning Courtney. I just don’t see JR voting for Amanda. He was really bitter and Todd seemed to do a lot of work to get his vote, something which Amanda couldn’t do. He might not respect Denise’s game, but I don’t think he’d be overtly angry towards her either.

          • By live do you mean “Nick-like” and open to any of them?

          • DrVanNostrand

            Jaime was an early juror and didn’t seem to have great relationships with any of them. I think she was a pretty live vote. Without Todd, she would have been live-er.

          • She was also sorta drunk, right?

          • DrVanNostrand

            I don’t know. You’re the resident gossip, not me. She was definitely belligerent. For the record, if I went on Survivor and spent a lot of time at Ponderosa, I’d go on an EPIC bender.

          • As someone who has a drink a year, I am bad at telling who is drunk. I just know that Penner says that a lot of the time, the jury at FTC is drunk. Obviously there are some exceptions, like in Philippines or South Pacific when half of those juries was super religious and refused to drink.

          • Well yeah, because her closest relationship with somebody from Fei Long was with Leslie.

      • Hornacek

        I think the jury would have just written “NOT AMANDA” on their votes.

  • Hornacek

    Yes, lacrosse is our national summer sport, even though it is played all year, in all seasons: spring, summer, autumn and hockey.

  • Hornacek

    When Emma was talking about Ian being a Beauty, I expected Andy to add “like Brian Heidik!”

    • DrVanNostrand

      Heidik always reminded me of 1980’s Kurt Russell, but creepier.

  • Violina23

    This season is excellent, I couldn’t stop with 2 episodes, and I’m now up to 9 or 10 (just finished the merge episode). Thanks for inspiring the re-watch!

    In terms of the podcast… not sure what I can add that wasn’t already said, but I will agree that Danielle’s boobs DO appear to defy gravity, and oily James was delicious (but not as delicious as oily Jeremy).