Purple Rock Survivor Podcast: Heroes vs Villains Watch-Along Episodes 6-7

It’s time to discuss the sixth and seventh episodes of Survivor: Heroes vs Villains. This ish is bananas, b-a-n-a-n-a-s.

NOTICE: Because this podcast is unedited, there are some curse words throughout. Those listening with younger people around might want to choose not to this time. Apologies.


Purple Rock Survivor podcast: Heroes vs Villains Watch-Along Episodes 6-7

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Andy and Emma continue the rewatch of perhaps the greatest season in Survivor history.Β In this podcast, we talk about:

  • Did Tyson make the dumbest move in Survivor history?
  • How much credit should be given to Russell Hantz for what transpired?
  • How Russell Hantz is the Beijing Olympics of Survivor.
  • Boston Rob. SOooOOooo much Boston Rob. Okay, that was mostly just Andy.
  • Two sliding doors situations that would have majorly influenced the season had they gone another way.
  • Did Jerri make the right move? Did Coach?
  • How funny is it to see Coach get punked?
  • Is Russell vs Rob the best pre-merge storyline of all-time?
  • A final assessment of James.
  • Emma’s eating habits.

Thanks for watching along with us!

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Andy and John are the hosts of the Purple Rock Survivor podcast.
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  • Black Dynamite

    In eepisode 6, I love how it starts with the Heroes coming back from the previous tribal council and James is eating a banana. Then when the Heroes leaves for the challenge, James grabs a banana on the way out. The whole thing was beautifully set up. Despite what happened with Steph and the Randy moment, I still found James to be amazingly entertaining. So much of what he says is gold and breath of fresh air compared to the rest of his super serious tribe. I would watch him play again.

    As for the best pre-merge storylines, back in the Gabon finale podcast post. I ranked HvV as the best pre-merge in Survivor history. A big reason for that was the Rob vs Russell storyline and the dysfunctional dynamic of the Heroes tribe. It is not common for a lot of long term arcs to be completely settled in the pre-merge that doesn’t involve a tribe continually losing challenges. This sets the Rob/Russell apart from the others.

    The best pre-merge storylines
    1. Rob vs Russell
    2. The complete elimination of Ulong
    3. Russell Swan and the failure of Matsing
    4. The incompetent brain tribe in Cagayan
    5. Dysfunctional Heroes tribe

    • That sounds good to me.

    • andythesaint

      A contender would be the Robfather act in Marquesas. He and his doofuses overthrowing he accepted notion that you need to keep Hunter-types around is pretty big.

      • Black Dynamite

        That’s a good one. I enjoyed Marquesas Rob a lot, very underrated. The fact they were losing and still got rid of the perceived strongest player was a very shocking idea. Dare I say, it was a game changer.

      • sharculese

        The problem with Marquesas is that the Robfather arc quickly gets subsumed by the Africa/Marquesas “swaps, what the fuck are these?” dynamic.

        Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a good case for Africa. The rise of the young people, followed by Silas getting fucked and the Samburus sealing their fate is a pretty satisfying storyline.

        • I think the pre-merge storyline of Marquesas is a weird one. You got the start of Kathy’s underdog arc while you have to balance the entirety of the Robfather edit and the entirety of the Gina underdog arc.

          • sharculese

            I’m not a huge fan of the Gina stuff. It feels too much like they’re trying to make a third Colleen when it’s clear that the zeitgeist has passed, and it’s just not gonna happen.

          • You better not say it that too loudly or John will come after you.

  • Black Dynamite

    I recently finished Africa, making it the 30th season of Survivor I’ve watched. I thought that was a nice round number to rank the seasons of Survivor I’ve watched from worst to best. Unlike previous rankings, I’m going to be breaking this up in several parts and adding brief summaries for why I ranked a particular season where I did. The only two seasons missing from the list is Thailand and Nicaragua, neither of which I’ve seen yet.

    My Survivor Season Rankings Part 1

    30. Worlds Apart
    There is a black cloud of unpleasantness hovering over the season. The focus of the season is mostly horrible people saying horrible things and having a lot of uncomfortable arguments. I don’t remember many fun moments in the season. A lot of the strategy is underwhelming and the arc of hero overcoming the odds wasn’t quite satisfying enough to save this dumpster fire of a season.
    Favorite episode: “My Word Is My Bond” (Dan boot)
    Favorite players: Jenn, Shirin, Mike

    29. Gabon
    Nobody here seems to grasp the concept of Survivor. So many puzzling decisions that no one seems to learn from. At first this makes for entertainingly bad television but soon grows into something frustrating and sad. There is also a bit of nastiness that dents an already bad season.
    Favorite episode: “Nothing Tastes Better than Five Hundred Dollars” (Randy boot)
    Favorite players: Kenny, Bob, Crystal

    28. Redemption Island
    I hate the concept of Redemption Island. I have no desire to see eliminated players come back and it destroys the fundamentals of the game. The actual segment of the Redemption game is never exciting and takes time away from potentially better storylines. Too much focus of the season is on Phillip, a Survivor miscast. As a Boston Rob fan, though not as big of one as Andy because that’s not possible, I did enjoy his dominance. Not enough to save the season.
    Favorite episode: “This Game Respects Big Moves” (Matt 2nd boot)
    Favorite players: Boston Rob, Andrea, Russell’s tears

    27. South Pacific
    The more interesting of the back to back Redemption Island seasons. Bad returning players and a mostly bad cast damages the season. One tribe decides it’s cool to be assholes to Cochran and demand his loyalty. The other tribe is built like a cult with Coach creepily exploiting people’s religious beliefs. Some more enjoyable moments than Redemption Island. Most of if is by Sophie, who is a badass and an awesome winner.
    Favorite episode: “Double Agent” (Keith boot)
    Favorite players: Sophie, Cochran, Sophie again

    26. One World
    Kim single handedly moves this season up a few spots. The total package of a Survivor player. Incredibly smart, charming and an excellent challenge player. Seeing her control the game as this cold blooded assassin is beautiful to watch. Unfortunately everything else is terrible. Colton is the worst person ever cast. Alicia is shitty. Tarzan is shitty. Troyzan is not as terrible as the others but still shitty. Very few of the rest are good on Survivor. Thank God for Kim.
    Favorite episode: “Just Annihilate Them” (Mike boot)
    Favorite players: Kim, Sabrina, Kat’s hoodie

    Next week is 25-21, including the worst season ever involving at least 10 returnees.

    • Purplerockmatt

      so what seasons have you not seen at this point?

      • Black Dynamite

        Thailand and Nicaragua

        • Purplerockmatt

          oh same two as me

    • Max_Jets

      “Next week is 25-21, including the worst season ever involving at least 10 returnees.” My brain says Caramoan, but my heart says All Stars.

      • Black Dynamite

        Well either your brain or heart is correct. It is one of those two.

  • Purplerockmatt

    I know the focus of these episodes is the villains (and Rob’s) collapse, but man the first episode was reminding me why I loved James. Exasperated James, but not angry James, is the best James. I mean his banana discussion, superman in a fat suit, the way he played to the Villains during that tribal, it was all so great. And I loved how much the villains were laughing and enjoying his stuff.

    • andythesaint

      Yeah, Tyson and Rob just gave us too much to talk about to focus too much on them, but I did want to talk about James once more a bit. Because I did find that I came back around to enjoying him again in the end.

  • Crazy alternate world time: If Russell gets knocked out in Tyson’s spot, how does Samoa get edited instead?

    • Black Dynamite

      I would say mostly the same. Russell was such a new, never before seen force in the game of Survivor that the things he did would be heavily highlighted. How he lost is still the most intriguing storyline of the season. A little more time may have been spent with the Galu tribe but probably not the biggest difference. Maybe it would’ve led to Russell and his nephew getting cast in BvW, which would be the darkest timeline.

      • I think he wouldn’t get so many confessionals. Instead of 108, he would get like 90.

        • andythesaint

          I think they would’ve been more mindful of showing us how awful he was to everyone post-merge. And maybe shown more how Natalie was leveraging that.

          • They do a decent job in both Samoa and HvV of showing how meaningless he is to the merge vote while his female “underling” is shown in a really good light.

        • Quick fun fact about Samoa: The second most confessionals is Shambo with 39. While some modern seasons have 20 or 30 confessionals that separate first and second place, none is as bad as Samoa.

          • Other Scott

            Isn’t it a bit of a fallacy that the confessionals are more uneven now than they were in the classic years?

            Like I remember the merge episode of Marquesas was utterly dominated by Kathy and Rob, and that was a merge episode.

          • I think part of the problem is that the old days had more confessionals in general since confessionals were a good way to fill time. So, it is fairly odd to see a modern day contestant get 108 confessionals.

            Also, I understand why the merge episode was dominated by those two: both of them were the ambassadors and both of them were on the chopping block.

          • Other Scott

            Oh I mean in general though. Samoa editing was obviously very, very unbalanced.

            But I think seasons like Marquesas and Amazon were pretty unbalanced as well (though not to the same degree.)

          • I think part of Marquesas’s issue is that they had to deal with both the first true disaster tribe and the first downfall of a power alliance. That was new territory. With Amazon, they were dealing with a new type of player in Rob Cesternino who was not only a smartass but extremely smart about the game.

          • Max_Jets

            It’s overstated a bit, but the first 3 seasons have more balanced editing. Marquesas through Panama is more dependent on the season, but it’s the start of over-sized edits like Cesternino’s and under edited contestants like Zoe and Darrah. From Cook Islands onward it becomes pretty much the norm to have multiple Darrahs per season with very few exceptions (China, Kaoh Rong)

          • sharculese

            It’s possible that this is true, but that would make it an inaccuracy, not a fallacy.

    • andythesaint

      Good question. I still say it’s Russell dominant, but maybe not AS Russell dominant.

    • Max_Jets

      I like to imagine it’s edited to be a consensus top 5 season in this alternate world.

      • I think there is that potential there because there are good characters on Galu. It’s a cruel world that provides Danger Dave but yet renders him purple.

  • gouis

    Yeah but who’s hot?

    • Black Dynamite

      Definitely not Boston Rob’s HvV game.

    • andythesaint

      Parvati. Always Parvati. And briefly Colby again. This might be his high point this season.

      • He looked decent during the “oil up Joe” challenge. I love the fact that his shirt just looks so big on him already.

      • Black Dynamite

        And Jerri

        • I was talking about this yesterday, but Jerri looks fantastic this season. I don’t know if it is because she is just happier or what, but she is simply gorgeous.

          • andythesaint

            The smiling helps for sure.

          • Considering that she almost died in her last season (Thanks, Rupert), this is a far better experience.

          • Black Dynamite

            And Rupert tried again in one of the challenges earlier in the HvV season. Survivor needs to keep Jerri away from Rupert.

          • Good call. I love how Rupert always tries to get in injuries at the end of challenges.

          • Black Dynamite

            His little push fight with Russell in the water basketball challenge.

          • Purplerockmatt

            so hilariously childish

          • “Hero”

          • Alternatively, they could just keep Rupert away from Survivor.

          • Black Dynamite

            Even better. My all time favorite Rupert moment was his volunteering to leave his tribe in BvW.

      • gouis

        I would rob a bank for her if Parvati smiled at me at just the right way.

        • andythesaint

          The question sometimes comes up about why people keep pegging Parvati as the most dangerous player in her returnee seasons. The answer is most likely “spend five minutes with her and you’ll understand how dangerous she is. Unless she’s already pwned you”.

          • sharculese

            There was a RHAP interview with an ex-casting person a while back who basically said that what makes Parvati special is that, any time she’s talking to you, she makes you feel like the most important person on the planet.

  • Black Dynamite

    One moment I found very enjoyable was Courtney mocking Jeff’s challenge commentary about how tough James was.

  • Purplerockmatt

    I just thought of the perfect analogy for the Russell talking about Sandra and Courtney right in front of them: Arrested Development’s third episode, when Michael and George Sr. are talking about Buster and the camera pans out and reveals Buster sitting there as he yawns and goes “we are just blowing through nap time aren’t we?”

    • Mike Hirsch

      NO TOUCHING.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        I’m Mister Manager!

        • Mike Hirsch

          Look at banner, Michael!

  • I hate bananas.

    • I actually do too, and I do not have Emma’s aversion to human foods.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      H-A-T-E-A-T-E!

    • sharculese

      As my brother has grown up, he has downgraded from fear of bananas to just hate.

      He still won’t be in the room while someone is eating one, but he at lest will touch something that’s touched a banana. One time when I was a kid, I took a bunch of bananas and hung it on on his doorknob, knowing that he wouldn’t be able to open the door for the rest of the day.

      It’s in the top five pranks I ever played on him, and I’m assuming anyone who judges me for it was an only child.

    • Hornacek

      In fact, I hate anyone that’s ever had a banana when they were growing up.

  • gouis

    What are the three things Emma eats?

    Apples, fries, and carrot sticks?

    • You’re forgetting rice.

      • gouis

        Oh, THAT’S IT! Apples, fries, and rice.

        How is she not dead?

        • andythesaint

          WE LITERALLY DON’T KNOW.

        • To be clear, she’ll eat fries or rice, but not fried rice.

          • gouis

            TOO MANY PEAS!!!

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I will eat fried rice, but the probably is actually too much egg.

          • Hornacek

            What about crispy rice?

    • andythesaint

      Yes, yes, undetermined.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Oh god. You guys, I literally had french fries and baby carrots (with hummus!) for dinner last night.

      • gouis

        At least it’s a vegetable?

        My sister used to be a picky eater, but it was more of the french fry/chicken nuggets/pizza variety.

        She literally got hypnotized to try to eat better.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          I actually like a decent amount of fruits and vegetables (I think), but I do love me some fries.

    • sharculese

      Is Emma secretly a horse? Are the Bojack Horseman references secret marketing?

      (No, I don’t know if you can feed a horse french fries, but I’m assuming you can. I don’t know that many horse facts.The main one I know is that Will Arnett plays one on tv. Then there’s a bunch of evolution stuff.)

      • sharculese

        And because I know everyone here loves it when I post weird stream-of-consciousness shit, here is my list of the coolest areas of mammalian evolution:

        1: primates (duh)
        2: whales
        3: canidae (you guys thought I would do this without mentioning dogs?)
        4. horses
        5. non-cetacean marine mammals (which are less cool than whales. Sorry, sea lions, I still think you’re pretty cool looking.)

      • Purple Rock Emma

        I’m choosing to interpret this as you saying I look like a horse and now I’m horribly insulted.

        • sharculese

          I knew this was a possibility when I went with this joke, but comedy is about risk taking.

        • Hornacek

          Emma, why the long face?

  • Other Scott

    I’m going to repost this from reddit, because it’s one of my favourite things I’ve ever posted:

    I typically don’t like when things get nonsensical on Survivor, but the sheer number of dominoes that had to fall here:

    1. Tyson wants Parvati out because he correctly assumes she is more of a threat than Russell.

    2. Russell comes to Tyson and says he’s voting for Parvati. Why Russell does this, I don’t think he really even knows but he is a pathological liar (see him telling Brett he’ll force a tie in Samoa final 4 when there was no benefit to him lying about that) and I guess only good things can come of the opposition thinking votes are going a different way than they were.

    3. Tyson realizes that if Russell is voting for Parvati, there’s a good chance that Parvati and Danielle are voting for Russell, meaning there will be a 5-4 vote for Russell if they stick to a 3-3 split. He decides to go rogue, vote for Parvati, and make sure Parvati goes home.

    4. Parvati, Russell and Danielle vote together and don’t turn on one another despite knowing there’s basically no way they could win the vote.

    5. Russell, who was the only one looking for an idol and knowing that his name is being written down, plays the idol for Parvati for reasons that couldn’t have been inside the game. There is literally no logical reason to play the idol for Parvati here.

    6. Because of Tyson’s rogue vote that no one had any reason to see coming he goes home.

    It’s the most unlikely confluence of events that’s ever happened on Survivor. I’m not sure anything else even comes close. This is just Russell doing weird and backwards things that just happen to work perfectly because of Tyson’s need to eliminate Parvati. There really was no way that stray vote should have backfired, but it did.

    • It can make some sense if you believe that Russell actually thought all of this could happen by telling Tyson he was voting for Parvati. Now, there’s really no reason to believe that, since I doubt Russell thought “if I tell Tyson I’m voting for Parvati, he’ll assume Danielle and Parvati are voting for me, so he’ll vote for Parvati and I can play the idol on Parvati to send him home.” Really, it comes down to whether it was more likely that this all happened by chance, or that somehow Russell anticipated it all ahead of time. It’s all so ridiculous which is why it’s so great.

      • andythesaint

        Russell playing the idol for Parvati instead of himself lends credence to me that he is at least in part responsible for Tyson’s move. He must’ve felt he had some success in that discussion. Or, he’s just a madman doing crazy stuff. I’ll accept either. Or both.

      • Other Scott

        To me it seems ridiculous that he could have foreseen this. Nothing about his Survivor playing skills have indicated he has that degree of intuition.

        • Alycia Swift

          Or any intuition. πŸ™‚

    • Violina23

      My take (at the time) was that he was just SO CERTAIN that Russel was telling him the truth about voting out Parvati and he wanted it to do it as a bold display of strength/aggression (vs. the more passive vote split), all while displaying his trust for Russell to possibly move together moving forward.

      It’s still indefensibly dumb, but that was my guess on this thought process.

    • sharculese

      In a twisted way I can understand Tyson’s move. He’s the most comfortable with the label of “villain,” and I think it’s because he gets that he was a sarcastic asshole who was mean to people, so of course he’s a bad guy. I don’t think he has any problem with that.

      But, at this point, I’m not sure how much Survivor Tyson has seen; I’m guessing not a lot. He probably thinks that most of these people are here for the same reason he is, especially after a few days of interacting with the likes of Rob, Sandra, and Courtney.

      I’m not sure he has the toolset to decipher that he’s dealing with a Machievellian psychopath who, as you aptly put it, do “weird and backwards thing” to secure control, no matter the costs. It’s just not in his map of what Survivor is.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Who cares? It’s still a dumbass move. If Russell goes home, great! If Parvati goes home, great! You have a solid 6, with an idol floating around. Why take the chance by fucking up the split? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON FOR IT! All of this is weak post-hoc rationalization. The idea that Parvati and Danielle would have surely flipped is also untrue. It’s not at all uncommon for the clear minority to stick together. There’s absolutely nothing bizarre about the fact that Parvati and Danielle didn’t defect. Russell played him, and there was nothing epically ‘unlikely’ about it.

      • Other Scott

        I’m not rationalizing. What Tyson did was dumb, as outlined extensively. But I don’t think Russell played him.

        The minority often sticks together because they think they have more votes. Where did Parvati, Danielle and Russell think their other vote was coming from? What did they think was going to happen? And the sticking together is the thing that makes the most sense of what I listed.

  • sharculese

    “I wonder if anyone is still listening to this now.”

    This is funny because it came five minutes after I paused last night and decided I couldn’t be listening to this at one in the morning.

    Also, to consolidate my random comments, Emma, that is a really cute blouse.

    • Alycia Swift

      It arrived on my podcast feed just as I pulled into the parking lot at work (after a 2 hour drive where I did listen to the RHAP con episode) so I won’t get to listen until I drive home.

    • andythesaint

      Excellent… good to know my work was not for naught.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Thanks!

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    So if Russell Hanz were ever to return to the game, how would he not be the first vote out? What other returnee could possibly be more of a threat?

    • gouis

      Francesca.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        I haven’t seen her seasons.

        • Violina23

          That, or you blinked…

          • Hey, she made it to Episode 3 of RI.

          • Violina23

            She did? I guess they won immunity the first 2 episodes? I think my brain repressed pretty much that entire season…

          • Not exactly. She was voted out in the first episode, but she couldn’t compete in a Redemption Island Duel until the second person (Matt) was voted out. Hence why she lasted until the third episode.

          • Violina23

            Ahhh ok, I thought I was going crazy.. πŸ™‚

          • No, I understand. That is a popular assumption that Franny has only lasted 6 days. Nope, she lasted 9 days.

          • Black Dynamite

            Ugh!! Fucking Redemption Island

          • I wouldn’t be surprised if MvGX brings back redemption island, just so it can be a mix of three bad seasons.

          • I have a weird feeling that we will see it in 34.

          • Violina23

            Part of me really wants her to come back and see what kind of player she is capable of being, but the other part of me fears that she’ll be voted out a third time as a cruel joke.

          • I believe the second time was a cruel joke already.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Who?

      • Mike Hirsch

        Francheskwa.

      • Hornacek

        If Russell did return and got voted out first, would he eat that rock?

    • andythesaint

      Be on Joe Anglim’s tribe.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        But if they lose a challenge pre-merge (Joe isn’t that good) Russell is still first out, right?

        • gouis

          Yeah I agree with you. Joe has early game value and has shown to be no particularly threatening.

        • andythesaint

          The longer he’s allowed to fester, the more damage he can do. Plus, as Matt points out, idols.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            But his style of damage is documented. Both times he played none of the other players knew who he was or what he was capable of. “Where’s the machete?” Now if the machete “mysteriously” disappears everybody knows what happened. “Where is Russell?” He’s obviously off looking for idols and may already have one. “Who are we voting for tonight?” Russell, always Russell. I don’t think he can come back.

          • andythesaint

            Are we intentionally not talking about the time he did come back as a bit, or do you not know the result?

            The other issue is if someone gets clever in trying to use him as a goat. That person will fail miserably.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            He comes back a third time? I did not know that. I started watching at Blood vs. Water and other than One World (which I am finishing now) I may not have seen any of the seasons between this one and it.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Redemption Island

          • Alycia Swift

            And the tribe may throw a challenge (even with Joe on it) to get him out.

    • Purplerockmatt

      if he finds an idol

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        But he’s still on his own. His game is broken now, nobody will trust him. If he comes back, I can’t see him making the merge.

    • gouis

      Unpopular opinion: I would love to see RH play again, and I’d want him to make it to the merge.

      • Other Scott

        I firmly believe Russell has made every season he’s been in better. Even Redemption Island, whose best episodes were all while he was still in the game.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I really would like to know what juror Hantz is like

        • I predict that he would be like Kaoh Rong Jason and Scot (people who vote emotionally but think they are voting strategically).

          • andythesaint

            I predict he would treat it with the dignity and respect with which he treats his HOF ballot.

          • HOF Stephanie Valencia.

          • andythesaint

            HOF Boo Bernis.

          • I love how all of his nominations are always compliments meant for him as well.

          • sharculese

            You mean all of the respect and dignity it deserves?

      • Violina23

        I think Russel’s Survivor Story (like Rob’s at this point) has been told. I wouldn’t HATE seeing him play again, but it would be eye-roll inducing and probably not go any better than his Redemption Island stint.

  • gouis

    When Andy gets a platform to yell about BRob uninterrupted:

  • Violina23

    I’ve only listened to 5 minutes so far, but I share Emma’s aversion to coconut, and as mentioned on another thread, I have a vehement (non-allergy) hatred for all things peanut and peanut-butter (chunky PB = vomit). Plus, cilantro can go die and not taint all of my Mexican Food Favorites.

    ETA: I do like bananas, but only when they are speckly and sweet and perfect.

    ETA2: That song is 20 years old? I am going to go and cry tonight when I’m getting ready for bed early and yelling at people to get off my lawn…

    • andythesaint

      ETA2: I was exaggerating. It is ten years old.

      • Violina23

        Andy from Toy Story went to college and is probably working his first crappy cubicle job by now. Nothing shocks me anymore.

        • andythesaint

          LOL at a millennial getting a job.

          • sharculese

            It’s funny because our means of supporting ourselves is perpetually insecure.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I used to be against peanut butter, but it’s grown on me (I used to be even pickier), but chunky is gross. Are you one of those people who tastes soap when they eat cilantro? My old roommate was like that. Cilantro doesn’t really bother me, but I don’t like Mexican food except quesadillas.

      • Violina23

        I never thought of it as soap, but yeah, kinda… Most of our local semi-authentic restaurants load their salsa with it. Yuck πŸ™

        • andythesaint

          I also do not like the taste of cilantro.

      • sharculese

        The soap thing is genetic, and you can actually train it out of yourself, which I know, because I did. If you don’t make a lot of salsas, there’s really no reason to bother, but I make a lot of salsas.

    • sharculese

      It’s cool. They remade Toy Story but with dogs and and it’s… fine.

  • Kemper Boyd

    Your alternate history forgets how easily Sandra flipped on Christa and that Sandra literally says Rob’s a great but not to take to the end.

    • andythesaint

      I imagine a lot of people have said that they wouldn’t take Rob to the end that ended up watching Rob get to the end.

      • Kemper Boyd

        This true but I don’t think Sandra would be sitting next to him at the end wondering how it happened. She’s either on the Jury or he is.

        • Crappy

          This seems like wishful thinking. Sandra is more of an opportunist that instigator of moves. Never in her survivor career, has she solely created a move similar to someone like Cirie she has. She has been part of flips to take out others when the opportunity has arose. Case in point is the HvV season it self where she tried for a long time to take out Russell, never succeeding and in the end had to sit next to him at FTC. Granted that was the thing that won her the game in the end, but you are joking if you think that was her plan before last 5 or 6 in the game.

          • Purplerockmatt

            “never in her survivor career, has she solely created a move” Burton would disagree with this

          • Kemper Boyd

            My point was that if she ever tried to get rid of Rob and failed he’d have clipped her

    • Black Dynamite

      I think all of Rob’s alliance would flip on him if given the opportunity. None of these players screams out loyal to the end despite what Coach may say.

      • andythesaint

        I don’t disagree. But I don’t know if there would be many opportunities until the final 6 or so. And Rob is as likely as anyone to win necessary challenges.

        This doesn’t mean he’d win, necessarily. But it does suggest that he had put himself in as good a position to do so as a player like he could have. Which is a good way of evaluating skill at a game that is as high variance as Survivor. A game so random that a major part of it swung on which tribe got to watch the other tribe’s tribal council.

        • Black Dynamite

          I agree with that. Rob did put himself in a good spot in HvV. He’s proven to be a smart guy and a very good challenge performer. He also was at the point where he learned from the mistakes he made in previous seasons. He was in a good position but also would’ve been the biggest target when it came down to the end and sometimes it just takes one loss after the merge to end it all.

          Overall I also agree that the criticism that it took Rob four times to win to be overblown. He’s shown multiple times that he is capable of winning Survivor. Winning Survivor is just very hard.

          • andythesaint

            Reasonable!

        • Kemper Boyd

          I agree on this but I feel he may be sacrificed the moment he loses an immunity. Say they go in 6-4 (Sandra, Rob, Courtney, Coach, Jerri and Tyson) not 5-5 they take out Candice/Amanda at 10 because JT has an idol and they want to take out an immunity threat (I think Amanda because Candice is easily switchable as Russell proved), the at 9 Rob loses immunity and it’s him. There is still a 5-3 for the Heroes.

          • andythesaint

            Entirely possible. A player like Rob is always going to have a big target on him. However, I’m not sure that Sandra/Courtney would be so quick to surrender control to Coach/Jerri by voting out the person most loyal to them as you are.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Not enough trust that Sandra and Courtney could convince Jerri she should ditch Coach and be in a Final three deal with them.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Tyson, Sandra, Jerri and Courtney would all want to. So as long as they stay up in the numbers they’d clip him. I think maybe even before the merge…

      • Alycia Swift

        Coach would do it and then somehow justify it as he did not do it.

        • Black Dynamite

          Agreed. It was awful in South Pacific how he used God to manipulate his definition of loyalty.

  • Mike Hirsch

    I really think the “it took Rob four tries to win” stance is, while technically true, is ultimately an unfair way to look at it, because he was never in a position to win Marquesas, and here he’s victimized by an absolute bonehead move that’s completely out of his hands. And he absolutely owns Redemption Island. No one manages naive people for a continued stretch of time better than Boston Rob.

    Off-topic: for our anniversary, Mrs. Hirsch got me a Jeff Probst-style shirt from Columbia Sports. She so gets me.

  • Violina23

    Slowly getting through the podcast. Watching Gilmore Girls is a TOTALLY legitimate reason to stop doing anything else. #teamEmma

    Unless it’s the last-season-which-shall-not-be-named.

    • Black Dynamite

      Everyone knows Gilmore Girls had 6 seasons and nothing more. In all seriousness I really hope this Netflix revival is good.

      • Violina23

        It will probably be the reason I finally cave and get Netflix. I have faith in ASP and I am cautiously optimistic that it is going to be good πŸ™‚

        • Purple Rock Emma

          You… don’t… have… Netflix?

          • Violina23

            Yeah, tell me about it. We’re probably going to trade in a cable box we rarely use and get it next month πŸ™‚

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I’m about a quarter through season five, so the Logan bits just started. And I know I don’t like him, but the beginning stuff is kind of charming so I’m very confused. Rewatches when you haven’t seen it for at least 10 years are interesting.

      • Black Dynamite

        Logan has his moments. He is a smart dude but incredibly immature. Overall I found his relationship with Rory to be kind of toxic.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          It will probably come back to me when they start dating. I’ve always just shipped her with s6 Jess.

          • Black Dynamite

            Same here. Jess in season 6 was great.

          • Violina23

            Logan wasn’t THAT bad, but he did not bring out the best in Rory at all. Season 6 Jess all the way πŸ™‚

      • That is what I am hoping for when I finally break down and check out All Stars from the local library.

  • Other Scott

    Now that I’ve listened, here’s the scenario where Tyson’s vote matters (I’m not saying its likely):

    1. Russell votes for Parvati
    2. Because Russell thinks that Danielle and Parvati are voting for Tyson, he thinks he’ll be fine saving his idol.
    3. Danielle and Parvati actually vote for Russell because they sniff out he’s about to betray them
    4. Russell goes home.

    It’s still stupidly unlikely, but I guess it’s possible?

  • quinn

    What’s so fascinating about this Villains tribe is the sheer amount of Survivor talent it possesses. It’s almost as if too many gifted players were destined to produce such an impossible string of events. You have previous winners Parvati and Sandra as well as finalists’ past and future in Rob, Russell, Courtney, Danielle, Coach and Tyson leaving only Jerri and Randy (with Jerri finishing just outside the finals and who even gives a fuck about Randy every family has a black sheep). Four of the five two-time finalists are on this tribe. It’s insane.
    One thing that this episode illuminates better than most is the collective strength and weakness of Rob’s, Russell’s, Parvati’s and Sandra’s games. Rob had a solid pack of loyal followers who (even some begrudgingly) were willing to follow his lead. However, his insistence on getting his way with neutralizing the idol and then targeting Russell shows that he really isn’t as adaptable as some other gifted players *cough* Sandra *cough.*
    Russell has this uncanny ability to, as the podcast stated, take his strategy further than any of the other players around him. Socially this costs him the game. Additionally he fails to truly understand the importance of what winning a vote means. He is sure successful at ousting people but cannot do so in a way the merits respect from his fellow players.
    Parvati is so charismatic that she completely convinces a strategically inclined player to surrender his idol to her. Her natural social aptitude is incredibly strong and suits her well in life and in her two previous games. What she struggles with throughout the whole season is that her fellow players are onto her. Parvati is not used to not being popular and is repeatedly frustrated when players don’t want to associate with her, not because they don’t like her but because they are afraid of how much they do. It’s clear in the situation with Jerri and even more so at the merge. While I love Parvati I think the main reason she lost HvV was that she was unprepared, for once in her life, to be at a social disadvantage because the players who knew how powerful she could be.
    Sandra’s strength in these episodes is her striking ability to maintain her strong, likable presence while causing no waves or suspicion in a very tense feud between two power players. She doesn’t simply vanish into the background like other utr players but her name is scarcely mentioned. It speaks a lot to her gameplay that Coach desired to target Courtney (a friend to the Tocantins cohort) over Sandra who dare I say is even worse at challenges than. Sandra’s weakness (though it doesn’t really matter) is that when her alliance was threatened she could do nothing to save it and was eventually forced to abandon ship.

    • I think it should also note that Parvati doesn’t think of herself as dangerous when she really should always be aware of how dangerous she is. We will also see another weakness in her game around that time as well.

      SPOILER: It isn’t until the merge that she has an epiphany about her threat level.

    • andythesaint

      Agree with all of this.

  • sharculese

    Fun follow up to my talk about Paideia in my second post:

    We had a house tonight dinner that included my roommate bringing out his old Paideia yearbooks that showcased both his membership in their first ultimate frisbee team (no other school in Georgia had one, they had to play against adults) and his role in creating a traditional day of boys dressing up as girls.

    That’s where Spencer went to high school.

  • Diego Armando

    Here is the reason Tyson voted Parvati. According to a post game interview with IGN, he wanted to vote her out so they would not have to do a revote and would get to eat earlier. πŸ™

    • Purplerockmatt

      that actually makes sense though! he was so focused on the food he just stopped thinking

  • Hornacek

    With Andy in his Superman shirt, I wish Emma had been wearing a Batman shirt.

  • Hornacek

    When Emma mentions the Hunger Games I loved her look to the sky. It should remind me of the Hunger Games but because of recency bias now it makes me think of the Hunger For Power Games.

  • Hornacek

    Emma’s close-up when she asked Andy “What about Amber?” was kinda cweepy.

  • Hornacek

    Why was Emma sitting in a corner?

    • She knows what she did.