Purple Rock Survivor Podcast: Millennials vs. Gen X episode 7 “I Will Destroy You”

Frankly, we’re a little surprised at how excited we were to talk about the seventh episode of Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X, given the terrible result.


Purple Rock Survivor podcast: Millennials vs Gen X episode 7 “I Will Destroy You”

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In this episode, Andy and John discuss:

  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! That was so awful!!!!!
  • But, it was kind of AMAZING, wasn’t it?
  • What did Michaela do wrong?
  • Did Jay make a big move or a big mistake?
  • Adam’s smooth post-Tribal game.
  • David telling Zeke about his idol and his increased confidence in the game.
  • Farts.
  • How one of the most diverse casts in recent memory has resulted in one the whitest post-merges in recent memory.
  • Predictions for next week.
  • If the season is already successful enough to merit a sequel.
  • What job would we lie about having if out there.
  • Is there anyone from other competitive reality shows we’d like to see on Survivor.
  • And at about the 59 minute mark, a couple of Gen Xers spend the rest of the podcast talking about our five favourite albums from the 90s. So fair warning, the Survivor talk ends in the first hour. (Plugs come in at around the 77th minute if you want to hear a sharculese shoutout.)

For this season, we hope to do a weekly mailbag segment, so if you have questions for next week, you can comment here, @ us on Twitter, or send us an email.

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Andy and John are the hosts of the Purple Rock Survivor podcast.
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  • Before anyone says anything: Yes, I’m incredibly disappointed in myself for not forcing Andy to use one of his five 90s albums picks on Jagged Little Pill.

    • andythesaint

      If pressed, I could do a CANCON 90s list.

      • Alanis, Our Lady Peace, and…I’m out of ideas.

        • andythesaint

          The Bryan Adams joke was right there dude.

          • Dammit! I’m off my game this week.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Barenaked Ladies is still on the board, John.

          • Iiiiiiiiiit’s been a long time since I thought about BNL.

          • andythesaint

            Would you say it’s been one week?

          • If I had a million dollars, I’d buy some BNL tracks.

          • sharculese

            Why?

          • Not familiar with BNL’s “If I Had a Million Dollars”, I take it?

          • Mike Hirsch

            “Hey everyone, check out how ‘clever’ we are as we constantly remind you of this!” — Every BNL song ever.

        • sharculese

          You could let the Millennials take over and do a do a 00s music discussion. Because then, dear god, so much Canadian music.

          • andythesaint

            The first decade of this millennium is probably my favourite musical decade.

          • sharculese

            Because it was so Canadian or because it was so fucking good?

          • andythesaint

            Yes.

          • Black Dynamite

            My plan was to wait a few weeks and basically ask the same question I did this week but with OO’s albums.

          • andythesaint

            Probably best to wait a couple of weeks.

      • gouis

        What’s a cancon? Is it like a shitty Cancun?

        • andythesaint

          Canadian Content.

          We actually have laws that govern what percentage of broadcasting NEEDS to be Canadian.

          • gouis

            And I know you also support creation of art for no real reason other for it to exist.

          • andythesaint

            We kinda have to otherwise it wouldn’t.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Does that have anything to do with Much Music?

          • andythesaint

            Yes. In order to maintain their broadcasting license with the CRTC (government body that oversees this stuff. Probably like your FCC), they need to play a certain percentage of Canadian content (back in the day, it was music videos, now it is probably Canadian shows). It might be as high as 55%, but I’m not sure.

          • Mike Hirsch

            For some reason at college (UMass Amherst), the campus tv channel lineup had Much Music instead of MTV. They played a lot of Spice Girls, Bush (Bush X, as they called him), and Nerf Herder, of which the last one I enjoyed immensely.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            So do bands like GSYBE and The Unicorns get radio play?

          • andythesaint

            Fuck no. They just play the Canadian acts that are already popular twice as much. SO MUCH BIEBER.

            And maybe play some acts that wouldn’t otherwise be popular a bit too. But nothing like the ones you mention. Ever since CanCon laws were enacted, radio stations looked for hacks to get around them. At first, they’d meet the quota by playing Canadian music when people were asleep. So the laws changed to ensure the ratio was met throughout the day.

            The worst was the 70s/80s when there wasn’t enough popular Canadian acts to fill demand. The result was them overplaying shitty bands no one really liked. (If you’re thinking they should’ve just played legends like Neil Young or Joni Mitchell, being born Canadian isn’t enough to qualify as CanCon. The music’s production must be sufficiently Canadian – like made here or funded by Canadians or Canadian producers or something. This was a big deal when Bryan Adams’ biggest hit – the Robin Hood one – didn’t qualify. He was pissed).

    • Alycia Swift

      And I see very few females so far on any list from the 90s so far and that was a big era for women in music in most genres.

      • I actually thought of that when I was making my list. Alanis was actually the one that came closest for me- I was going to tease Andy about Jagged Little Pill for Canadian reasons, but it was such a great album.

        Keep in mind that 90s me was a teenager, so my lack of inclusion of female artists is mostly because the two genres I listened to (rap and grunge) were dominated by men.

      • Oh. I think I backed you up above, 83% of my list is female vocals (Isobel sings lead on one TBWTAS track).

    • Kemper Boyd

      I nearly put it on my list because I was an angry little kid and it spoke to me A LOT.

  • andythesaint

    90s Albums discussion thread. We gave our picks, here’s where you can A) judge them, and/or B) make your own.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I discussed this with Andy and John, but pretty sure my list of 5 is this Dookie, Automatic for the People, Nevermind, Ten, and either blood sugar sex magic or californication and those last two are 91 and 99 which is somehow perfect and makes it way too hard to decide

      • gouis

        Fuck Pearl Jam

        • Purplerockmatt

          well that is fitting

          • gouis

            It was only a response, bro!

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Did I ever tell you my Pearl Jam story?

        • Purplerockmatt

          … no?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            So in the fall of 1991 some freinds and I went to go see the Red Hot Chili Peppers in Houston at a little dive called the Unicorn. Blood Sugar Sex Magic had just come out but Under the Bridge hadn’t blown them up just yet. As a nice bonus, Smashing Pumpkins opened for them (they were touring for Gish). And opening for them? A little band none of us had heard of because Ten hadn’t been released yet–Pearl Jam. I stood in the back because I had… um… eaten something that disagreed with me and I was still only about 40 feet away from the stage. The show was awesome and the best thing about it was that it only cost 12 bucks. Neat, huh?

          • Purplerockmatt

            that honestly sounds like my dream show. Like if you could design one show for early 90s music taste Matt it might be that show

    • Albums I was disappointed I couldn’t include on my list:

      Outkast- everything from Southernplayalistic to Stankonia
      Pearl Jam- Ten or Vs.
      Nirvana- Unplugged
      Alice in Chains- Unplugged
      Lords of the Underground- Here come the Lords

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Did I have to be into them at the time, or can I discover them later in life?

      Anyway, at the top of my head, so I’m surely missing stuff I’d say: Nevermind, Pinkerton, Blue Album, Dookie, Tragic Kingdom, and The Writing’s on the Wall.

      If I had to be into the albums during the 90s, it’s probably: Dookie, Tragic Kingdom, …Baby One More Time, Christina Aguilera, and The Writing’s on the Wall

    • gouis

      I’m not there yet. But if OK Computer isn’t mentioned y’all are dead to me.

      • Purplerockmatt

        fuck Radiohead

        • #TeamMatt (which is also #TeamFuckRadiohead)

          • gouis

            Y’all some basic bitches.

          • andythesaint

            Honestly, they’re telling on themselves more than anything.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Isn’t liking Radiohead the more basic thing? I couldn’t throw a rock without hitting a Radiohead fan when I was in college.

          • Purplerockmatt

            liking Radiohead is so goddamn basic

          • gouis

            Why are you so mad about Radiohead? Let people like what they like.

          • Purplerockmatt

            you called me basic first!

          • gouis

            Only as a response you dropping the F bomb in what otherwise everywhere else is a really pleasant and congenial discussion about music. No one else was being negative in any way.

          • Purplerockmatt

            i meant it more as a joke. sorry to blow it up like that. (but i really dont like radiohead)

          • gouis

            And some of us really love them, in a really personal way. I mean that was basically the most human Andy has ever sounded when he was describing how it makes him feel. No reason to be negative about it.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Man, fuck Andy

          • This is a sentiment we can all support.

          • andythesaint

            It fits that I sound the most human while describing how much I relate to an album that LITERALLY has a song that is a robot talking.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Matt just swears a lot. I know this because I also swear a lot.

        • andythesaint

          We hope you choke.

          • sharculese

            1. It’s “we hope that you choke.”

            2. Best song based on Shakespeare ever?

      • andythesaint

        You know I’d never let you down, Gouis.

        • gouis

        • gouis

          • I love that song.

        • gouis

          Listening now. Agree that it’s the best pop music album of all time.

          • andythesaint

            Anyone interested in a review I wrote almost a decade ago on LiveJournal? Wow, LiveJournal.

            http://andythesaint.livejournal.com/243065.html

          • gouis

            Big mistake! Just gonna read all your other posts now and find the most embarrassing ones.

            *realizes own LJ still exists*

            NEVERMIND FORGET WE EVER HAD THOSE

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I actually did read through Andy’s entire livejournal a year or so ago. Luckily, I never had one. Suckers.

          • Kingoftonga

            I don’t know how I feel about 2006 Andy now that I know he likes “Fitter Happier” and apparently thinks “No Surprises” should have been cut from the album.

          • andythesaint

            Fair. That guy was a fucking moron.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Copying over from the Week 6 episode thread:

      “You didn’t ask me but I can’t resist that kind of GenX-bait: Achtung Baby, In Utero, Automatic for the People, The Chronic, OK Computer.

      Five is a fiendishly difficult number to pare down to. It caused me actual distress to leave out Ill Communication, Odelay, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Dig Your Own Hole, Dookie, Illmatic, Whatever and Ever Amen, The Colour and the Shape, and one of Low-End Theory or Midnight Marauders (flip a coin).”

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Notes:

        1) My sorting mechanism was “what albums did I absolutely wear out at the time?” so I guess I leaned toward what I liked at the time rather than now.
        2) I deliberately excluded albums from 1999, but Play would be a lock for the “just missed top 5” list.
        3) I am one of those weird pedants that doesn’t include the zero year of a decade, but replace The Chronic with Fear of a
        Black Planet if 1990 counts.

        I went through a long prog-rock phase as a teenager, so I prized “musicianship” and “chops” and looked down on hip-hop as not real music (yes, yes, I know; I’m talking about my dumbass teenage self). Raising Hell pulled me in a little bit, but the real road to Damascus moment for me was sitting in a movie theater watching the opening credits to Do the Right Thing. It just triggered something in me and all of a sudden i “got” hip-hop. I almost cried.

        • indescribable hat

          Play! So good. I have very little awareness of 90s music and have found most of this conversation confusing, but I love Play.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Were you in prison or something, or are you a really young Millennial?

          • indescribable hat

            I’m not an extraordinarily young millennial (I’m 25), but I didn’t listen to much popular music during the first decade of my life and haven’t absorbed that much music from the 90s since then. It’s not like I don’t listen to any 90s music, but the 90s are kind of my musical blind spot because I was too little to be paying attention at the time and the music I was listening to then was my parents’ collections which basically stopped when they started taking care of tiny children.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Got it. I lived overseas for most of the 90s, and while that didn’t affect my music intake, there’s a huge swath of TV shows I missed. I was apparently the only person in this group that had to sit out the Friends discussion last week.

          • Alycia Swift

            I sat it out too. And I was here. I watched the show occasionally but couldn’t tell you the name of one episode.

      • ADS, I love me some Colour and the Shape. I would also promote There is Nothing Left to Lose and yeap, those are the two 90s albums that I have listen to its entirety. I am a singles gal as well as being a single gal (yes, I did make that joke).

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          And ready to mingle?

          Yeah, just like with Low-End Theory and Midnight Marauders, it’s really a coin flip between TCATS and TINLTL. I remember being really disappointed when One by One first came out, but it’s a perfectly good album.

          • Have you heard the story behind why even our beloved Foos hate One by One?

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I didn’t know the full story until I went down the Wikipedia rabbit hole a couple of hours ago. I was dealing with a baby at the time.

          • If you have the time, check out their documentary Back and Forth. It is absolutely fascinating.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Will do, but I haven’t even watched Sonic City yet.

          • Back and Forth is better than Sound City IMO, but they are both very good to great. The big problem with Sound City is once the documentary stops focusing on the history of Sound City and start focusing on the accompanying cd, the movie loses focus and feels a bit indulgent.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Oops. I meant Sonic Highways, but I haven’t seen Sound City either.

          • I forgot about Sonic Highways (OOPS), but I haven’t seen it either because there is a certain artist who appears in it that I absolutely hate.

          • Alycia Swift

            No. But now you have me curious.

          • It’s a bit of a long story. After recording their last album in Dave Grohl’s Virginia studio as a threesome, they added another guitarist and were at the height of the fame (they had just done a tour with RHCP). But, they also had a high standard for Album 4 since the last three albums were all highly regarded. So, they decided to use Pro Tools for the first time. This led to the band being really concerned with the Production side of things…which naturally caused some tension to develop as well as the songs themselves to suffer. The drummer, Taylor Hawkins, OD’d on heroin, but luckily survived, which naturally caused more tension, especially between Taylor and Dave for obvious reasons. At this point, all four of them were doing other projects at the time (the most notable being Dave drumming on Queens of the Stone Age’s first album). The tension along with the realizations that the recordings were super shitty led to a massive fight between the band at Coachella. They decided to scrap the recordings (now known as the Million Dollar Demos) and redo the whole process plus add new songs in TWO WEEKS. Although they were extremely positive about the album at the time, that is changed since they believe that that album is too clean and not them. Yes, this is the album that has “All My Life” and “Times Like These”, but it has a lot of filler.

      • Purplerockmatt

        Colour and the Shape is solid for sure, Mellon Collie and Siamese Dreams would have been near my list but not on it

    • gouis

      My list, which is a blend of then and now:

      OK Computer
      Downward Spiral
      Aquemini
      Rage Against the Machine
      Homework

    • Black Dynamite

      I really enjoyed the hip hop discussion. Definitely going to ask more hip hop centric questions for future mailbags. As for my five albums. In chronological order:

      1. Low End Theory (1991) A Tribe Called Quest
      2. Illmatic (1994) Nas
      3. Pinkerton (1996) Weezer
      4. OK Computer (1997) Radiohead
      5. Aquemini (1998) Outkast

      Honorable mentions
      Midnight Marauders (1993) A Tribe Called Quest
      Ready to Die (1994) Notorious B.I.G
      Brown Sugar (1995) D’Angelo
      House of Music (1996) Tony, Toni, Toné
      The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998) Lauryn Hill

      Quick Note: Dave Chappelle is hosting SNL with A Tribe Called Quest as the music guest on November 12th. I’ve never been more excited about a host/musical guest combo ever.

      • andythesaint

        I’ll say this now to avoid disappointment later: you’ll be really sad if we ever started talking about modern hip-hop.

        We are old.

        • I just found out about Chance the Rapper like a month ago. If you think any hip hop music is good right now, wait 5 years until I discover it before you ask for my opinion of it.

          • Black Dynamite

            Coloring Book by Chance is awesome. One of my favorite releases this year.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Hey, thanks for this recommendation. I’m through the first six tracks and I really like it. Kind of a laid-back old-school feel (in a good way). I like Kendrick Lamar but it’s not the kind of thing you can put on in the background while you’re reading (same with recent Kanye).

          • gouis

            Coloring Book is great. If you like that check out Donnie Trumpet, which is even chiller.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Damn, if anything the back half of Coloring Book is even better than the front half.

          • Black Dynamite

            I could see that. Most of my favorite tracks are in the back half. The whole album has such a great energy though.

          • Black Dynamite

            To Pimp a Butterfly by Kendrick is such a rich, dense album. I love it but it definitely demands a lot of focus to really get a full appreciation. I’ve listened to it now well over a hundred times and each time still gives me a new “wow” moment.

          • Listen to Sunday Candy! I love that song.

            Also, his verse on Ultralight Beam is the only good thing about that song.

        • Black Dynamite

          Well that shortens the questions considerably. It would be very reassuring if you could at least tell me you’re a fan of Kendrick Lamar.

          • andythesaint

            I respect his work, but my opportunities to listen are very limited, so I can’t say I’m a fan.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I know this is directed at Andy, but I have been begging John to listen to Kendrick for ages. I’m amazed he found Chance as early as he did.

            *note: I am not that familiar with hip hop, but the boyfriend has gotten me into some stuff.

          • Black Dynamite

            Yes!!! Everyone needs to be directed to listening to Kendrick. Dude is special.

      • andythesaint

        I’ve thought about how I’d finish out a five of 90s hip-hop albums. Illmatic is definitely in there. Fifth is harder…. Midnight Marauders, Ready to Die, ATLiens, Aquemini, several Wu-Tang solos, Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde… argh…

        Lets go with Midnight Marauders.

    • Max_Jets

      Faith No More – Angel Dust (this is number one, the rest have no order)
      Mr. Bungle – California
      Bjork – Homogenic
      Bad Religion – Generator
      Outkast – Aquemini

      • gouis

        MR BUNGLE!!!

      • gouis

      • Mike Hirsch

        I remain unperturbed by the joy and the madness that I encounter everywhere I turn.

        Also, every time I look at the cover of Stranger Than Fiction I think, “Whoa, Chris Parnell!”

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Pearl Jam – Ten (actually they managed to release 5 stellar albums in the 90s, so really pick any one of them here)
      Liz Phair – Whip Smart
      The Cranberries – No Need to Argue
      Wu-Tang Clan – 36 Chambers
      Nirvana – Nevermind

      This was a fun list to come up with! My musical tastes are all over the place, but my basic criteria here were just albums that I love and still regularly listen to all the way through without skipping tracks 🙂

      • andythesaint

        Wow. Whip Smart over Exile in Guyville. Bold.

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          That one is purely nostalgic, since I actually got the Whip Smart album in the 90s, but didn’t go back and discover Exile in Guyville until later. Also I was 7 when Exile in Guyville came out :l

          • andythesaint

            I’m glad you weren’t listening to it then.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Fun story: my parents let me get Jagged Little Pill when it came out but I wasn’t allowed to listen to You Oughta Know (I was 9)

          • andythesaint

            So sad that they let you be negatively influenced into a poor understanding of the term Ironic.

    • sharculese

      In no particular order:

      The Verve – A Storm in Heaven
      Fugazi- In on the Kill Taker
      Elliott Smith – Elliott Smith
      Mogwai – Young Team
      Modest Mouse – The Lonesome Crowded West

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Best one yet.

        • sharculese

          My honorable mentions were 13, Perfect From Now On, Loveless, Seamonsters, and Day Three of My New Life.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Also in no particular order:

            Yo La Tengo–I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One
            Beastie Boys–Check Your Head
            Slint–Spiderland
            Godspeed You Black Emperor!–the one with the unpronounceable name
            Polvo–Exploded Drawing

            Maybe those.

          • sharculese

            Omigod I can’t believe I forgot I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One, although Painful is my jam.

            I more appreciated than enjoyed Spiderland until I heard the remaster.

            I also just realized I totally didn’t think about American Water.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            And I somehow left out Stereolab completely.

          • Kingoftonga

            Stereolab gets overlooked a lot because they’re so consistently good that there’s not one standout iconic album that automatically makes these lists.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Damn, I can’t believe I forgot it either, although it would be in my also-rans and not top 5.

            I think the problem may be (only a problem WRT compiling a list like this) that they’ve been so consistent for so long that they don’t have a career-defining album or two that stick out from the rest. IMO

          • sharculese

            I think you can make a case for I Am Not Afraid of You and I Will Beat Your Ass being their defining album, if only because it runs the gamut of every style they’ve taken on, but I agree.

            It’s the same reason Perfect From Now On got relegated to honorable mention. I can’t ever decide whether I like it or Keep It Like a Secret better, and the answer basically comes down to “which one have I listened to most recently?”

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            In addition to being a lock for the album title hall of fame, that’s actually my favorite YLT album.

          • Side Character

            Might be mine too (but between that, ICTHBAO and Painful, it’s a toss-up). It was the first YLT album I ever listened to. They got me on the first track (my favourite on that album). It’s amazing that they’ve been so good for so long.

          • sharculese

            Oh god, if you’re not hooked as soon as that scuzzy guitar line comes in on “Pass the Hatchet, I Think I’m Goodkind” I just don’t know what to tell you. It’s probably my favorite YLT song, with the second version of “Big Day Coming” as number two.

          • Side Character

            If “Pass the Hatchet, I Think I’m Goodkind” is not my favourite YLT song, it’s in the top 5 for sure.
            Everyone probably likes the 4-minute version of “Big Day Coming” more (for good reason, that version is great), but I prefer the 7-minute version that opens Painful.

          • sharculese

            Yeah, I like it sludgier.

            This is gonna sound contradictory to what I just said, but I’m also a little sad that we’ve been having this conversation for a minute and nobody has shown any love for And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out. I know it’s more subdued, but “Our Way to Fall,” “Let’s Save Tony Orlando’s House,” “Cherry Chapstick”…

          • Side Character

            Don’t forget their cover of “You Can Have it All”. God, that version is so lovely. Everything about it just makes me happy.

          • Marlene

            I don’t ever plan on getting married, but if for some godforesaken reason I find someone I actually like enough to marry, that will played at my wedding.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            It’s admittedly an even more wedding-friendly YLT song, but I actually did have “My Little Corner of the World” played at my wedding.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            No, I get it. It’s great how they can go from whisper quiet to guitar freak-out.

            I saw them touring I Am Not Afraid of You and I Will Beat Your Ass in a small club in Tokyo (Club Quattro in Shibuya, maybe 600 people I’m guessing) and got “Pass the Hatchet, I Think I’m Goodkind” and “The Story of Yo La Tengo” at point-blank range.

          • sharculese

            Oh “Story of Yo La Tengo” is in my top five as well. And now that I think about it “We’re an American Band” is probably over “Pass the Hatchet.”

            I’m jealous, but the funny thing is I got to have the inverse experience. The first time Boris toured the US, I got to see them in a club that maaaaaybe held a hundred people (the Caledonia Lounge in Athens, GA). Did I get my face melted completely off? Yes. But the coolest thing was it was this even mix of hipsters and metal nerds and we were all like “nobody is gonna acknowledge that two different tribes are merging, we’re all excited about the same thing.”

          • sharculese

            Fun fact: I’m listening to We’re an American Band right now and the next recommendation is Good Morning Captain.

          • Alycia Swift

            I’ll put up my list later bit my favorite Yo La Tengo is Electropura.

          • sharculese

            Also, F sharp, A sharp, infinity. What part of that is unpronounceable?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I keep my CDs in a darker corner of the family room. The font is difficult. I was too lazy to either bring the case into a well lighted area. I was too lazy to google it. My hyper-obsession with music has waned in the last devade or so. A pigeon could shit on it.

            That is what makes it unpronounceable.

    • Side Character

      Making this list was really hard, and it may change depending on my mood. Mine are in no particular order:

      My Bloody Valentine – Loveless
      Neutral Milk Hotel – In the Aeroplane Over the Sea
      Massive Attack – Mezzanine
      Yo La Tengo – Painful
      Ride – Nowhere

      Honourable mentions (there are way too many because I’m a music nerd): I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One, OK Computer, The Bends, Blue Album, Pinkerton, Dummy, Selected Ambient Works 85-92, …Endtroducing, F♯ A♯ ∞, Slow Riot for New Zero Kanada (EP, but whatever), Music Has the Right to Children, If You’re Feeling Sinister, Emergency & I, Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 69 Love Songs, Out of Time, Young Team

      • sharculese

        I decided not to include F♯ A♯ ∞, because if I couldn’t have Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven I just didn’t wanna, but how the fuck did I not consider If Your Feeling Sinister.

        Also solid fist bump on picking Painful.

        • Side Character

          If we decide to do the ’00s list, Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven is definitely going on there.

      • andythesaint

        If I were just to do a non-rap top 5, OK Computer and Nevermind would be joined by Belle & Sebastian – If You’re Feeling Sinister, Elliott Smith – XO, and The Flaming Lips – The Soft Bulletin.

    • Marlene

      This is 5 out of many albums that really rate equally for me, but each of these listed led me down a path to an ever expanding album collection and group of friends in the 90s.
      1. Drive Like Jehu – Yank Crime
      2. Sugar – Copper Blue
      3. Pulp-Different Class
      4. Braid – The Age of Octeen
      5. Ride- Nowhere

      • sharculese

        You wanna be sent down an even worse rabbit hole?

        Warning, despite the title it is not the full show, but it is 40 minutes of Drive Like Jehu at their best.

        • Marlene

          I saw them play twice last year. Seeing “Do You Compute” performed live was a bucket list item.

          • sharculese

            I forgot they were doing that. Honestly, I’d rather see Hot Snakes play, especially if I was guaranteed they’d do “Plenty for All” but everyone has their thing.

          • Marlene

            I saw Rocket From the Crypt in 13. Hot Snakes in 14 and Jehu last year. It was quite the trifecta.

          • sharculese

            I don’t care about RFC as much as the other two, but I can’t pretend not to be jealous.

      • the sky is falling

        While tecnically released in 1989, Disintegration by the Cure and The Stone Roses first album belong on this list.

        • andythesaint

          Might have to do an 80s list some time.

        • Marlene

          Stone Roses is on a list all by itself.

    • Alycia Swift

      Can you list your picks because I’ve already forgotten them. I listened on the drive home. And I’m old so I forget things.

      But I do want to say I really loved the discussion.

      So questions for next week or sometime afterwards – what are your five favorite concerts and why? Least favorite too. Oddest concert as well. Something nobody would expect you to attend.

      And since you listen to kids’ music, favorite ones. I’m totally kidding on this one.

      • Too bad you were kidding, because I have *thoughts* on kid music. (Though I actually gave one of them on the podcast. Peg Plus Cat is so good.)

        • Alycia Swift

          I figured others would get bored but could use some suggestions for Xmas gifts for my adopted nieces and nephews (the ones actually related to me are too old.)

      • andythesaint

        Mine:
        Radiohead – OK Computer
        Wu-Tang Clan – Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
        A Tribe Called Quest – The Low End Theory
        Nirvana – Nevermind
        Public Enemy – Fear of a Black Planet

        John’s:
        Nirvana – Nevermind
        The Notorious B.I.G. – Life After Death
        2Pac – All Eyez on Me
        Stone Temple Pilots – Core
        Metallica – Metallica (The Black Album)

    • So, here’s my 90’s picks, with the caveats that (a) I was Mr. Alternative Nation and respected but hardly ever listened to hip-hop, and (b) really didn’t start getting into popular music until 1993 because once on a field trip, the kid I was sitting next to on the bus made me listen to Faith No More, and as an extremely anxious nerd, this moment terrified me from listening to the radio for a good two years.

      Chron order:
      Hole – “Live Through This” (1994)
      Elastica – “Elastica” (1995)
      Garbage – “Version 2.0” (1998)
      Belle & Sebastian – “The Boy With the Arab Strap” (1998)
      Sleater-Kinney – “The Hot Rock” (1999)

    • Kingoftonga

      Late to the discussion but:
      1) The Soft Bulletin (I see this as one of Andy’s also-ran picks, but no one else? Really?)
      2) Selected Ambient Works 85-92
      3) Automatic for the People
      4) The Low End Theory
      5) Homogenic (which just barely beats Post)

      Five is tough – seems a crime to leave off Beck, Pavement, Weezer, Wu-Tang, Nirvana, Neutral Milk Hotel, Portishead, the Beastie Boys, Chili Peppers, even early 90s Neil Young. I’d probably find it easier to vote contestants off an island than to vote 90s albums

      • andythesaint

        Harvest Moon is my top Canadian album of the decade.

  • Hey, is there a way I can find an edited version of that TC that doesn’t include the mention of Tony? I am trying to ensure that my friend who hasn’t seen Cagayan can watch this TC and stay spoiler-free for Cagayan.

    • andythesaint

      That’s a pretty crazily-specific request that would be shocking were it to exist. You best bet is to get your friend to earmuff it for 15 seconds or so. That should do it.

      • I know that is oddly specific but she is hyper-vigilant about not knowing winners. She is open to knowing about future challenges and returnees, but not winners.

        • andythesaint

          I understand. But it’d be weird as hell of some Tony-edit version of a show was out there.

    • Or just share the link from youtube and include a starting point after the Tony reference.

  • turgid_legume

    I’m probably outing myself as An Old here, but can someone explain what exactly Bye, Felicia is?

    My 90s album picks are:

    Alice in Chains – Alice in Chains (1995)
    Megadeth – Rust in Peace (1990)
    Fear Factory – Demanufacture (1995)
    Faith No More – Angel Dust (1992)
    Soulfly – Soulfly (1998) [Honestly I’d probably prefer Chaos AD in this spot but I figured there would be too many from 1995]

    Really tough choices. I could probably come up with a dozen different lists of five depending on mood.

    • Weirdly, your being an old should help you with “Bye, Felicia.” It’s from the movie Friday, which came out in the 90s. But maybe you just forgot that, because you’re an old. (It’s ok, I had to be reminded of it too.)

      • turgid_legume

        Puff puff give! Puff puff give! You’re messing up the rotation.

        Ah, it’s coming back now.

      • andythesaint

        Well also, even though the reference is old, the meme is not.

        • Other Scott

          Though it is old for a meme.

      • Alycia Swift

        Or we never saw the movie.

    • Alycia Swift

      I was wondering about bye Felicia too but was afraid to ask.

  • Mike Hirsch

    5 90’s albums, plus random music snob comments:

    1) Weezer, Blue Album. You know what? Fuck Pinkerton. Blue Album 4 Life.
    2) Beck, Mutations. I loved Beck in the 90s, and Odelay is rightly praised, but Mutations was my album of choice for my senior year of college, hanging out and playing one-hit kills proximity mine Goldeneye.
    3) NOFX, Punk In Drublic.
    4) Tom Petty, Wildflowers.
    5) Pixies, Death to the Pixies. Yeah, kind of a cheat because it’s a comp + live show, but it opened my musical mind a bit.

    • andythesaint

      Ah, the album that you conflate with playing video games. I know that well. For me, it’s A Tribe Called Quest – Midnight Marauders and Super Mario World.

      • Mike Hirsch

        The Super Nintendo Contra (Contra III: The Alien Wars maybe?) – Weird Al’s Off The Deep End.

    • Purplerockmatt

      damn good Pixies cheat, I was looking at Surfer Rosa and Doolittle and saw both came too early (even though i loved them post-90s, they are two of my favorite albums now)

      • Mike Hirsch

        Yeah, I was looking at those two as well. And I was like, “well, I didn’t hear Caribou until 1995 so this ‘best of’ will work.”

        • the sky is falling

          1989 Counts, let’s just call it by Survivor rules, they dont count 1983 as any generation. 1989 was a stellar year for indie rock. I’m old so 1989-1995 are obviously the best 6 years for music.
          These were all 1989:
          The Cure-Disintegration
          The Stone Roses-Debut
          Pixies—Doolittle

          Beastie Boys-Pauls Boutique
          Jesus and Mary Chain-Automatic (The one with Head On)
          The Beautiful South—Welcome to the Beautiful South

          Nirvana—Bleach
          Dela Soul-3 Feet High and Rising

          • Mike Hirsch

            Nothing wrong with those albums at all.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Fuck Pinkerton? FUCK PINKERTON? Here I thought we were friends.

      • Mike Hirsch

        My feelings on Pinkerton changed over the years. First listen: abject disappointment. I think the only song I liked was Why Bother. Thanks to Much Music being my college’s music channel, El Scorcho and The Good Life played a lot, so those songs grew on me. I slowly got to appreciate the album a little more overall. It’s an album that’s “there” for me. Kind of like Maladroit.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I don’t really get any Weezer post Green Album. But Blue Album and Pinkerton were huge in my childhood and teenage years. Weezer were my first ever gig at 14 with my big brother.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Nice! I saw Weezer on the Green Album tour, which was a pretty great show. I really enjoyed Make Believe at the time of its release and Death To False Metal, but yeah, the Blue Album, for me, is where it’s all at.

          • Kemper Boyd

            It was the Green Album tour and it was amazing. I still have my Ghost World Weezer t-shirt somewhere.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I consider Maladroit underrated, but it’s certainly still below Blue and Pinkerton.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          “My feelings on Pinkerton changed over the years.”

          Isn’t that Pinkerton’s greatest legacy? Ahead of its time and all that.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yes, although ultimately I’m still disappointed that it’s not in keeping with what The Blue Album had me hoping it would be. Kind of like how, no matter how good a show Mr. Robot might be, I will never not be disappointed that it isn’t a show about a school with a robot teacher just trying to relate to a bunch of crazy kids.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    Thanks for answering my question! I appreciated all of your picks 🙂 I particularly enjoyed the Jessi Graf pick, because she’s an athletic beast but she’s also such a sweetie. I’m actually curious to see how she’d do on Survivor (though no intelligent player would let her anywhere near the finale).
    I personally watch all the competition reality (though I’ve only come to BB recently via CBS All Access, so I just finished up season 4 last week).
    Sharculese and I were gushing about Katya from Rupaul’s Drag Race on the other thread, and she’s definitely my personal top pick.
    Will from BB is a great pick. I’d also enjoy Danielle from BB3. No one from Amazing Race immediately springs to mind…unless Amber Mariano counts? 😛
    Project Runway has a wealth of over the top personalities, but I’m not sure if there is anyone who could bring much to the Survivor environment. Maybe Austin Scarlett or Mondo?
    Top Chef is usually just full of boring people who are good at cooking. If we wanted to see another Brian Heidek type, I’d nominate either of the Voltaggio brothers (or they could cast them together on the next BvW season!)
    I quit watching America’s Next Top Model a while ago, but that mean lady from Buffalo (Angelea, I think?) would make a pretty good villain.
    I’ve watched a lot of other miscellaneous competition reality over the years, but I think the list above is a good start 🙂

    As for the flip side of the question, this is a total cop out, but I think the trend of Survivor ‘power couples’ competing on Amazing Race is always fun. I would want them to branch out from romantic couples though, so I think Jeremy and Stephen would be a fun team. Ditto for Sandra and Courtney. And as much as I hated them on Kaoh Rong, I would probably watch Kyle Jason and Scot Pollard if they raced together.

    • andythesaint

      I think the issue Jessie Graff would have that male ANWs wouldn’t is that she LOOKS intimidating. Other successful Ninjas have lean muscle so they could be a little more stealthy with their overwhelming physical advantages.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        True! I think a lot of the guys would have an easier go of it, since they could probably hold back a bit in pre-merge challenges and then dominate when they needed to in the agility/balance/endurance stuff post-merge. Also, half of them would have the easy built-in decoy profession of “gym owner” instead of “stunt woman and professional parkour athlete” (because what lie could Jessie Graff come up with that would be remotely convincing?)

        • andythesaint

          Personal trainer, I guess.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Lean and also usually not tall. Hmm.. I wonder how peak Ozzy would have done on ANW.

        • Kemper Boyd

          He went on it. I believe the answer is “not well”.

    • Black Dynamite

      I enjoy the idea of Survivor duos on Amazing Race so much that I made a list of who I would most like to see compete. The only restriction I put on myself is that they’ve had to play on the same season.

      Amazing Race Survivor Duos

      1. Sandra and Courtney (Heroes vs Villains)
      2. JT and Stephen (Tocantins)
      3. Sandra and Parvati (Heroes vs Villains)
      4. Jerri and Colby (Australia, All Stars, Heroes vs Villains)
      5. Tyson and Coach (Tocantins, Heroes vs Villains)
      6. Denise and Malcolm (Philippines)
      7. Jeremy and Stephen (Cambodia)
      8. Hannah and Michaela (Millennials vs Gen X)
      9. Aubry and Tai (Koah Rong)
      10. Parvati and literally anyone she’s played with

      Honorable mention
      Savage and Lil (Pearl Islands)

      • andythesaint

        Tony and anyone would be the only thing besides Romber taking a third crack at it that would bring me back to TAR.

        • Alycia Swift

          Trish and Kass.

          Woo and Cliff.

      • Sad Lil

        I would never!

        • Other Scott

          What about Lil and Fairplay?

          • Alycia Swift

            Sandra and FairPlay.

      • Max_Jets

        Aubry & Cydney, or Aubry & Joe would also be great. Actually, Aubry and just about anyone from the Kaoh Rong merge. I love Aubry!

      • Sadie

        Only honourable mention?! Savage and Lil (☹️) is everything TAR doesn’t know it needs!

    • Max_Jets

      I’m watching BB4 right now too and I would love to see Jun on Survivor.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      The out-of-nowhere success of Masterchef Junior reeeealy makes me want a one-off Survivor Junior season.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        I love Masterchef Junior, but I can’t take it when the kids start to cry, so Survivor Junior would probably be absolute torture for me, emotionally.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I think we may watch Masterchef Junior differently…

      • hardcöre umlaut

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I had no idea that existed, but what I have in mind is with elementary school kids, like Masterchef Junior.

          • andythesaint

            KID NATION!

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Close, but I want a full-out Survivor Junior season, the same way Masterchef Junior is exactly the same as regular version, just with little kids.

            And I feel it goes without saying that I want MILF Island to be a real thing.

          • andythesaint

            Gonna be so awkward when they vote out all the minority kids out first from Survivor Junior.

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      I love Katya, but I wouldn’t want to see her on Survivor. Because if you’re just sabotaging yourself, how in the hell you gonna sabotage somebody else? Also, I have a feeling the editors might make her out to be like our favorite delusional water felon.

    • Diego Armando

      Fun fact, I remember seeing Ozzy try to run the Ninja Warrior preliminary course sometime around South Pacific. He fell at the third obstacle and everyone laughed.

  • andythesaint

    Oh, hey: feel free to talk about the Survivor-related stuff from the podcast as well if you’d like.

    • Purplerockmatt

      disregard this.

    • gouis

      Speaking of Big Brother, the only thing I know about it is also Will Kirby related facts.

      • indescribable hat

        I’ve been watching some Big Brother lately because I am running out of television. Mostly I regret it, but having seen Dan Gheesling’s season 14 game? Do not regret that. There’s someone I would love to see on Survivor.

    • sharculese

      You knew how this would go.

      • andythesaint

        Frankly, the fact that our weekly Survivor podcast comments has turned into a 90s music discussion is one of the best arguments for why this place is a good hang.

    • At first I thought Jay’s move was really stupid, but I think that’s only because I didn’t want to see Michaela go. If Michaela was really that much of a threat to get rid of him any time soon (although, based on interviews, I do kind of doubt that), then I shouldn’t judge.

      But I like judging.

      • andythesaint

        Judging is awesome. I do it for over an hour a week into a microphone.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Judging is honestly one of my top 3 hobbies.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            You should tell the other Survivors that you’re a judge.

          • sharculese

            Ugh, no. Never admit you’ve been to law school.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I for real think that 4 out of 5 people don’t realize that judges are also lawyers, or at least think that lawyer and judge are two different concentrations in law school.

          • Hornacek

            Rumor has it that one of the Purple Rock staff used to be a judge.

          • What are the other two?

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Watching TV and talking about TV.

  • Black Dynamite

    Questions for next week’s mailbag

    1. I’ve been rewatching a lot of Survivor for my 33 best episodes list (next part hopefully coming later today) and Amanda Kimmel (China, Micronesia, HvV) appears a lot. This has me thinking, is Amanda an overrated, underrated or property rated Survivor player?

    2. I believe the NBA currently is at It’s highest talent level ever, especially among young players. Which 5 players would currently be in your 23 and under All-NBA team and out of those five, who has the most hall of fame potential?

    Alternative to #2. Best, most overrated and underrated Tom Hanks movie?

    • Purplerockmatt

      I’m gonna answer number 2 for them and say Joel Embiid, Joel Embiid, Joel Embiid, Joel Embiid and Joel Embiid

      • Black Dynamite

        I’m so happy that he is finally healthy. I enjoyed him so much at Kansas and he could be great.

        • Purplerockmatt

          also I’m a Sixers fan, so I might be a touch biased.

          • Black Dynamite

            I hear that. I’m the biggest Porzingis cheerleader as a Knicks fan.

    • sharculese

      Overrated. In China she seems to have decent strategic instincts, but it doesn’t matter because she anchors herself early to someone who’s maybe in the conversation for greatest social player of all time. Seriously, I was already a Todd fan, but when I went back and rewatched it this summer I was stunned by how many small, subtle things he’s doing to stay friends with everyone. You could probably write an essay on how to play Survivor just by comparing his game to Peih-Gee’s.

      In Micronesia she’s pretty strategically inert. The only time she really does anything is the Erik vote, and, while she’s portrayed as a key member of the Widows for obvious reasons, she’s completely out of the loop when they make their move to take over the game and would have been fucked at 6 if production hadn’t changed how idols were hidden.

      In HvV she’s… there.

      • Black Dynamite

        Damn, that Todd/Peih-Gee comparison idea is a good one.

        • sharculese

          Short version of what I want to write: What makes Todd great is that he never takes up an opportunity to make someone feel at ease. He goes off and talks shit about the in confessionals, but, to their face, he’s always their best friend.

          Peih-Gee, on the other hand, has a really good view of the game but is terrible at getting people to go along with her strategy. You could see it on full display when she was on RHAP this season.

          Probably the best comparison is the swap twist. Yes it was bullshit, but, when Sherea and Frosti show up, Todd is all smiles and “welcome to your new home,” whereas Peih-Gee is all frowns and “you’re both targets.” It’s not the only reason Todd won, but it’s a big reason.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Oh yeah, Frosti. We’ve already had our Survivor/American Ninja Warrior crossover.

          • Ozzy actually attempted the ANW course. He did not do well.

    • Other Scott

      The only NBA player that matters right now is clearly Demar DeRozan.

      • Black Dynamite

        I’m a fan of DeRozan but goddamn does he frustrates me at times. He takes too many bad shots.

        • andythesaint

          DeRozan’s a player that I’ve decided to stop focusing on the things I wish he was, and instead celebrate the things he is. Because he has added value every season.

          • Black Dynamite

            That’s a good way of thinking with him. It would probably make it easier for me to watch and enjoy.

          • andythesaint

            To be fair to you, he didn’t exactly make watching him easy in the playoffs.

    • andythesaint
      • andythesaint

        Also, I now want to listen to some New Edition.

    • Other Scott

      I think she’s slightly underrated myself. She really had China in her lap and kind of choked it. She was also really good in Micronesia and kid of screwed by the idol gamble in Heroes vs Villains.

      She’s the best two-time non winning finalist in history, so that’s saying something.

      • sharculese

        What did Amanda do in Micronesia that was good? Lick her wounds after Parvati decided to take the game in a different direction? Pressure a guy her allies had already decided was a target?

        • Other Scott

          (This is where I admit I haven’t seen Micronesia yet)

          • sharculese

            You really should. Even if you think you’re gonna hop of Andy’s “Micronesia is overrrated” train, it’s an iconic season that you need to experience for yourself.

            But seriously, once they vote Ozzy, Amanda pretty much cedes control of the game to Parvati and Cirie. And to be clear, I don’t think she’s a terrible player. I would say that if you ran the simulation over and over, 90% of the time she gets to the end. But she’s just not great at making those social connections, so 100% of the time she loses. People always talk about Amanda beefing it at tribal council, but I don’t think that’s completely accurate, it’s part of it of but it’s also just her beefing it in the day-to-day interaction that are part of Survivor.

          • Other Scott

            I disagree, at least based on China, where I think most of the people in that alliance or at least the women in it were loyal to Amanda and not to Todd.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        A certain bandy-legged troll is calling your analysis flaaawed.

      • indescribable hat

        Yessssssss.

        Look, I’m an Amanda partisan from way back, but my favorite thing about her now is comparing her to Russell Hantz.

    • Hornacek

      Most overrated Tom Hanks movie: Forrest Gump

      Most underrated Tom Hanks movie: Nothing in Common

      Best Tom Hanks scene that blows the rest of the (pretty-good) movie away: the medical check-up at the end of Captain Phillips.

      Most underrated Tom Hanks co-star: Wilson

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    Question for next week’s mailbag: Who are some Survivors you would cast in a pre-merge-boot returnee season? (and Francesca and Michaela are already cast)

    • jersey_luck

      Alright time for fake Survivor cast

      Red Tribe: Michaela (MvGenX), Gina (Marquesas), Anna (Kaoh Rong),Bob Dawg(Panama), Ace (Gabon), and John Cody (BvW)

      Green Tribe: Francesca (RI and Cara), Tracy (FvF), So Kim (Worlds Apart), Caleb (Kaoh Rong), Garrett(Cagayan), and Silas (Africa)

      Blue Tribe: Alecia (Kaoh Rong), Alexis (Cagayan), Christine(SP), Brain(Guatemala), Aaron (China), and Russell Swan(Samoa and Philippines)

      • Get rid of one of those women and insert Jessie Camacho from Africa. Just trust me.

        • jersey_luck

          To be fair only chose 18 and thought about this realistically about who the show might bring back. Also if I was going to bump a men it would have been for James in Palau and the women I would bring pack would be Sherea from China.

        • sharculese

          “Get rid of one of those women”

          Oh hey, it’s the motto of Mills vs. Gennies.

  • Other Scott

    I want to make a very broad point about strategy, because I think that Rob and Stephen in particular have been very harsh on a lot of stuff happening this season and probably unfairly so.

    I think that the second guessing Monday morning quarterbacking of “good move/ bad move” is completely the wrong way to look at the show. The game is not won or lost in the moves made in terms of who to vote out, it’s made in all the time in between there, the social connections you make or fail to make, the comfort your allies do or don’t feel with you. And moves affect that but they are only a small part of it. So to judge how impressed you are or aren’t with a player by the moves they make is looking in the wrong spot. Just enjoy what’s there, and if you want to be impressed or judge someone, judge them by the way others respond to them.

    Secondly, the good move/ bad move binary is bad, because it’s completely different for different players. You have to play to the player you are, you can’t try to play like someone else. This week, Michaela was presenting a plan to Jay that would make him second fiddle. Well if Jay can’t play second fiddle, if that’s not his preferred style or works to his strength, then screw that he should ditch it. This is the exact same vote as Boston Rob voting out Hunter in Marquesas, except more justifiable, and everyone loved that. Same with David and the idol, if you can’t make bonds by being who you are because your a nervous ball of anxieties, use the tools you have. Play your idols on people and show you idols to build alliances, because that is by far your best chance of doing so. If you’re already naturally Kim Spradlin, you don’t need to do that.

    And I think Purple Rock has been nailing that this season in a way that RHAP has not been.

    • “Secondly, the good move/ bad move binary is bad, because it’s completely different for different players. You have to play to the player you are, you can’t try to play like someone else.”

      This was my main point when David played the idol on Jessica. Everyone was quick to call it dumb, because for other types of players it might be dumb. But not every player is David.

    • Violina23

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a good move / bad move analysis (because it’s fun), but you nailed the point that each player has different strengths and weaknesses to work with, and we can’t look at each move in isolation. Furthermore, as much as I hate to use the “e” word, we are watching through the prism of the editing process that is telling a season-long story and we can’t deny that this influences how events are presented.

      From an entertainment perspective, I love when people keep their idols hidden and have these jaw-dropping tribal council moments, but I can see why, for a person like David trying to earn trust with a person like Zeke — neither of which are macho alpha-male types — sharing this idol information was a [potentially] really smart play. Whereas Jeremy in Cambodia? He would have just painted an even larger target on his beautiful, athletic back.

    • Hornacek

      I think that when Rob and Stephen (and others online, not just singling those two out) have been saying this was a terrible strategic move for Jay, what they really mean is that Michaela was great TV and now we won’t get to see her every week, therefore it’s a dumb strategic move, even though the reason they’re upset about it has nothing to do with strategy, and everything to do with us not being able to see any more Michaela sound-bites or facial expressions.

      • Other Scott

        I mean that’s the feeling for a lot of people. And I think the move here to get rid of Michaela and the move Adam made that everyone loved to get rid of Figgy are closer comparisons than people would like to admit.

        That said, I completely understand the reasoning for calling this a bad move and it’s not just because they are getting rid of Michaela, it seems unnecessary to vote out an ally who seems determined to stay with you going into a merge situation where you are going to need as many allies as you can get.

        That said, there are equally legitimate reasons for why you do this move, and weighing those things against each other very much comes down to the type of player you are.

        To use a basketball example, early in the shot clock you have a chance to make a step-back three. Chances are if you keep moving the ball you are going to get a better shot, but it’s not guaranteed so maybe you take it. Then, you may be Steph Curry or some version of that in which case, you almost always take that shot. If you’re Rajon Rondo, you don’t ever take that shot. There’s a dependency there both on the type of risk you want to take on, as well as your skillset as a player.

        • Black Dynamite

          I love that basketball analogy.

        • Hornacek

          I don’t know if it was a good move for Jay to get rid of Michaela, but unlike a lot of the internet I’m not immediately jumping to the conclusion that it was a bad move solely because it means I won’t see Michaela on the show anymore.

          1) Michaela is a physical threat.

          2) Michaela admitted in exit interviews that she mouthed to Adam at last week’s challenge that he should vote out Figgy, and when she saw that Figgy was gone she told the rest of her tribe what she had done. First, it was smart to send a secret message to Adam, but it was incredibly dumb to then tell your tribe that you did that because it tells them that you made a decision on your own to get someone from the original millennial alliance voted out. I’m sure some of the millennials had been thinking that the original alliance was going to reform at the merge. The Triforce consisted of Jay, Taylor and Figgy, and Michaela just told Jay that she conspired to get Figgy voted out. How is Jay supposed to trust Michaela now? How much of an ally is Michaela to Jay when he can’t trust her? (I know this wasn’t on the show so it shouldn’t be part of the viewers’ understanding of why Jay voted her out, but that information is out there now)

          3) If Jay keeps Michaela but plans to vote her out later, it’s likely that she will not vote for him on the jury and be someone vocal in jury discussions.

          4) Michaela said that this group (Michaela, Jay, Hannah and Will) would be the final four. Jay probably wanted to get back with Michelle and Taylor, so locking into that final four now was probably not his ultimate final four plan.

          We have seen other seasons where players vote out threats just before the merge because they think will be a future threat. Sometimes it’s a good idea, sometimes a bad idea. I just feel like a lot of people are saying this was a bad move based solely on being upset about not seeing Michaela on the show anymore, not whether it makes sense for Jay’s game.

    • Diego Armando

      I personally do not think this was a great move for Jay. I understand why he did it and agree with your theories on how it could benefit him, but I think he may have doomed himself. (This is likely dramatic irony talking, since I know the merge is coming)

      He has to know that Adam flipped on the Millenials and that he is on the bottom along with Zeke. The tribe has also not made Bret and Sunday feel particularly welcome. Without Michaela, the original tribe numbers are 7-6, which means if Adam or Zeke flops, Jay is on the bottom. (Jay does have an idol, which isn’t nothing).

      If Bret went home the numbers would be 8-5, so two people would need to flip to hurt the Millenials. The numbers would likely keep Zeke and Adam on board for a few votes allowing you to take out Chris or Ken. Then he could go after Michaela.

      This is just my thoughts. I personally think there were too many loose variables to risk getting rid of an ally so close to merge. I would personally take her out at the 2nd post-merge tribal and risk her on the jury.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        What makes this move so damn interesting is that there is a good argument pro and con. PRP is on the pro side, and Rob and Stephen make a pretty good case for the con side (it’s basically what you said). I think John and Andy’s overall take is spot on: Jay’s move makes it less likely that he gets to the end, but more likely to win if he gets there. Staying the course makes it more likely that he gets to the end, but also makes it harder to win.

    • Crappy

      On RHAP’s condemnation of so many moves this season- Stephen has always been pretty adamant in what he perceives to be the correct survivor strategy. He is actually much more old school than Rob in this context since he is all about building a strong alliance, connecting with people on personal level and eve using the idol as a tool to gather numbers. So he is always going to be a naysayer to players who play a more individualistic game. Andy’s jibe at him during the podcast is some what valid in the sense that he repeated this same pattern in Cambodia where best case scenario for Stephen did seem like another second place finish alongside Jeremy.
      Rob, is generally more willing to give leeway on moves, but this season he has been giving more hot takes big since he has gotten some criticism of being too diplomatic with his survivor takes off late. In general he too prefers going into the merge with numbers and then making your big move(s).

      There is something to what you describe as each player trying to play the game that suits them the most but a big part of survivor is adaptability too. Players like Cirie and Parvati have shown that they can play from different spots in the game, behind in numbers at some point, in control at another. And personally, I find BRob’s unwillingness to play any other game than leading from the front as a weakness, something which leads to a 50/50 variance in him doing well or badly. I also like to believe some one like Kim would be able to play a different game than her one world if the circumstances came to it.

      Coming to this move specifically. Andy alluded to this but most of the people who are against it are those who think that number are going to be against Jay at the merge after this move. I do think that almost all Gen X will come together with Adam, Zeke and possibly Hannah to corner the triforce+ alliance. That’s where the criticism for Jay’s move stems from. All the examples Andy listed people did think about the numbers post their move. Tyson made his move on Aras when he knew he had gotten likes of Hayden, Ciera, Caleb with him to outnumber Tina and Aras’ alliance. Even Tony explained in his many post game dissections that he always planned to maintain his number majority after LJ blindside. The person who flipped that season without thinking about numbers was Kass, who then in her own words tried to play as a free agent. I don’t think anyone disagrees that Jay has to cut Michaela at some point but the argument is between her value as a number/shield at this point in the game vs getting rid of a big threat when 13 people are still left.

  • Violina23

    1) I thought John was an accountant too. Admit it…. you’re a transpondster!

    2) My gut feeling was that I was mad to see Michaela go, but I didn’t hate the move at all. I don’t see her removal from the game impacting anyone’s long-term strategy and I don’t see anybody dwelling on it. She didn’t seem to have any close alliances, other than simply being a millennial. I can’t imagine it coming up post-merge, other than Jay being able to speak to it as one of his “big moves” should he make the finals.

    3) Agree totally with your take on race and how it has far more to do with people looking for someone they “relate to” than because they are inherently racist. That’s basically what I was getting at in my question last week — If we made it where minorities were the majority, would it change the dynamic of the game? I wonder if it would be similarly eye-opening for the white contestants.

    As an aside to your bar anecdote — we got tickets to see Conan O’Brien’s taping last night in Harlem, and I was walking down 125th street around lunchtime and I was thinking to myself “Yep, we are LITERALLY the only white people walking around right now”. It didn’t bother me (other than the one guy who called us racist because we didn’t buy his CD), but it was something you couldn’t NOT notice.

    4) I had a walkman too. I remember it was a big deal that mine had a mode for extra bass.

    5) I love classical music, broadway, etc. and I share your aversion to Jazz. I can take it in small doses, but after about 5 minutes, I’m done. However, Classical music with Jazz Infusion (e.g. Gershwin) is great fun, especially to play. One of my orchestras recently did Gershwin’s Piano Concerto which was a blast, and also Rhapsody in Blue (which is a great piece, but a pretty boring orchestra part)….

    ….. I’ll show myself out… 😉

    • sharculese

      My high school class was 85% black, and when I got to to college I was unsettled for a few months about how white the place was.

      • Kemper Boyd

        My school wasn’t as mixed probably about 40% white. I got to university and it was like 90% white and it was really weird for a good while.

        • prettyboyprobst

          My school had an Asian girl – only two or three years behind me, too.

    • I don’t know that you can predict what moment or situation will open someone’s eyes. I did a terrible job presenting my story about going to my first drag show on the podcast, but I think at least the bar story came across the way I intended.

      “Shake it off” is great.

      My kids (still) love the Frozen soundtrack.

      I included a little extra context at the very end of the song for the people that didn’t quite recognize it.

      • Violina23

        I got it without the extra content, but appreciated the confirmation. My pace has slowed since the TV season started. I just saw the purple wedding, which was far more satisfying than the red one.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Really excellent discussion of minorities and “otherness” on Survivor. It’s so much more nuanced than labeling Survivor contestants or American society in general as racist.

        Not to reopen old wounds, but I’d just point out that the same way you can’t really knock contestants for not being inclusive of some “other” (because the incentives of the game work against it), you also can’t really blame the casts of One World or World’s Apart for not taking a stand against bullying (which is not to say they weren’t a bunch of monsters, just that they were monsters for other reasons).

        As you know, I lived for many years in Japan, and I will award zero bonus points for correctly guessing which ethnicity/gender combination among foreigners living in Japan complains the loudest and most tediously about real or perceived discrimination.

        • I think we discussed the tendency for the game to reinforce negative behaviors during Worlds Apart (we weren’t podcasting during One World). Maybe Mike only asked Shirin to leave that shitty environment may be because he was already outside of Will’s alliance; if he’d been aligned with Will maybe he just stays silent like the rest of them. We have no way of knowing.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Exactly, Mike didn’t risk anything by sticking up for Shirin. OK, let’s never speak of World’s Apart again.

    • andythesaint

      Right now, my three year old mostly requests the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack, but only three songs:
      1. “Ooga Chaka” AKA Blue Suede’s “Hooked on a Feeling”
      2. “Baby Ooga Chaka” AKA Redbone’s “Come and Get Your Love” (which has no Ooga Chaka’s, but Star Lord lipsyncs to it)
      3. “Baby Groot” AKA Jackson 5’s “A B C”

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        Don’t forget to get him into Bowie

      • Alycia Swift

        My former assistant’s twin boys and my adopted nephews (they are five) love the Hello song from Adele.

    • Kemper Boyd

      The whole minorities thing can easily be proved in Survivor because the only F3’s that were all minorities were in the two seasons that were cast to have whites as 1/4.

  • sharculese

    So I finally got to the end of the podcast this morning, and I guess I didn’t read the whole post because it was a total surprise and I really can’t thank you guys enough. My life has gone completely off the rails in the past couple of months, to the point where I’ve started having suicidal fantasies (I don’t think I’d ever do it, but I think about it) and hearing something appreciative out of nowhere was exactly what I needed today.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      For what it’s worth, you seem like the person on this site I’d most like to hang out at the bar with. This is based on both your taste in music and the fact that you made a similar statement (if I recall correctly) about Paul. Plus, this site would suffer without your presence.

    • andythesaint

      I’m not sure how much this matters, but know there’s a group of people who enjoy your digital company and would be lessened by its removal.

    • Kemper Boyd

      For what it’s worth I agree with both Andy and SNP, you are a good bloke who seems like I’d really enjoy hanging out with you if we lived in the same place. I like hanging out with you here. You have a lot of value.

    • Sharcy, although we may not agree about Ken, I appreciate your opinions and presence (and I know I speak for others here). If you need anything at all from me, all you have to do is ask.

    • Let me add my voice to the chorus of support for you here. You’re a valuable part of our community (and presumably other communities as well); I hope your life improves soon, and I hope you have access to any help you may need.

    • Diego Armando

      You have people who love you in your life. Things won’t always be bleak. I suffer from depression and can tell you that you will rebound.

    • gouis

      PRP, making days one commenter at a time.

      Also the only reason I ever clicked on the Australia posts were for the dogs, so there’s at least two of us.

      • I liked the dogs! We just can’t use them next season if we’re actually going to promote coverage. They can still be in the posts, just not featured images.

        (But I legitimately enjoyed seeing posts go up with insane titles and pics of dogs.)

    • gouis

      Also I still like you even though you are dead wrong about Ken.

  • Kemper Boyd

    So here is where I get quite British (because guys you left out Brit Pop):
    1. the Blue Album – Weezer (I love Pinkerton @disqus_eZAEfHymmj:disqus but the Blue Album is seminal).
    2. A Different Class – Pulp
    3. Parklife – Blur (again seminal, it’s your Nirvana moment but British)
    4. The Miseducation of… – Lauryn Hill
    5.Everything Must Go – the Manic Street Preachers.

    Now remember I am British and turned 13 in 99.

    • andythesaint

      I did have Radiohead, so it isn’t devoid of Britpop.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Radiohead IS NOT Britpop. They are British but certainly are not Britpop. Sir.

        • andythesaint

          Yeah, you’re right. They don’t suck enough to be Britpop.

          BOOM! ROASTED!

          • Kemper Boyd

            Wrong. WRONG.

    • My brother mistakenly got me The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill when I wanted Macy Gray for Christmas. I was so mad that I still have not listened to it in full.

      • Alycia Swift

        That sounds like me when I was a kid. I so wanted the Fame soundtrack (yes, on vinyl). And my parents got my sister the Fame one and got me Times Square (a movie with Tim Curry in it with music by bands like Roxy Music). I was so upset. I was 10.

        And I love Macy Gray.

        • I did not even know about this Times Square movie? Is it a musical?

          • Alycia Swift

            Not really. Not in the sense of West Side Story or Rocky Horror is a musical.

            I vaguely remember seeing it years later. Tim Curry plays a DJ if I recall. There are two teenage runaways involved who want to make it in music. I still have the vinyl somewhere in my basement.

            It was not a hit movie.

          • Wow, that sounds weird but I guess this was the time where Times Square was dangerous.

      • Kemper Boyd

        WHAT? HE DID YOU A HUGE SERVICE. THAT ALBUM IS SO SO SO GOOD. Lauryn Hill despite never building on it was a huge and important figure for black women in mainstream music, wanna see how important that album is? look at Nicki Minaj freaking out over meeting her.

        • I have only listened to “That Thing” and “To Zion” from the album. I have seen the music video for “Ex-Factor” on Pop Up Video, but I cannot recall the actual song if my life depended on it.

          • Black Dynamite

            I co-sign what Kemper said. Listen to that album immediately….and watch Palau.

          • #NeverforgetPalau

      • andythesaint

        Yeah, your brother was doing you a favour.

    • Needs more Oasis.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Oasis are insanely overrated. What’s the Story was a great album but not near those 5. Also complete Beatles rip offs, so if we are going top 5 it needs to be albums that were original and fantastic.

        • So, now it’s the time to reveal that you have dissed the bands that provided my number one and number three favorite songs of all time.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yes, yes it is.

          • Is this the end of our online friendship?

          • Kemper Boyd

            Never!

          • Yay!

          • I’ve got your back in this one. I liked Oasis- and still do.

          • I almost wept whenever Wonderwall was played at the Closing Ceremonies of the London Olympics, but that could have also been due to the Spice Girls performing on tops of Mini Cooper before that, who knows?

  • Kemper Boyd

    Next week can you do top 5 albums of the 00’s for us Millennials? I mean, you’ll be wrong but you should do it anyway.

    • My list would be highly British (mainly Coldplay).

      • Alycia Swift

        Mine would have some British and a lot of indie bands or artists (no Kanye).

      • Kemper Boyd

        Oh dear, maybe this shouldn’t be done. I don’t want to develop negative opinions of all you guys.

        • I don’t listen to albums. The only two that would be on my list would be A Rush of Blood to the Head and American Idiot.

    • Not next week, but probably before the end of the season. And I’ll give you a spoiler for it now: It’s gonna have Kanye on it at least once.

      • Kemper Boyd

        wrong but ok.

        • You started off with the presumption that I’d be wrong, so I didn’t want to disappoint you.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Fair.

      • Black Dynamite

        You could go a couple different routes with which Kanye album(s) you pick and I would nod in agreement.

        • I feel like there’s a clear number one. The issue will be if he gets a second album in my top 5. It’s possible.

          • Black Dynamite

            There will definitely be two albums of his in my top 5 and if MBDTF came out a year earlier, I would have to expand to a top 10 so my list didn’t end up all Kanye, including albums he had a big role as a producer. I agree there’s a clear number one but wouldn’t be surprised if it was different than yours.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I’m compiling my 00s list, and I’m running into a whole bunch of “Low-End Theory or Midnight Marauders?” conundrums. Kanye, obviously, but also MIA, Explosions in the Sky, Arcade Fire, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, The White Stripes, and The Roots.

            Speaking of which, holy shit, how did Things Fall Apart not make anybody’s 90s list???

          • Black Dynamite

            Things Fall Apart is great as well. The Roots deserve recognition for how consistently awesome they’ve been for two decades.

          • Ok, this both helps and hurts- I thought MBDTF was 2009 for some reason. That was the clear number one for me.

          • Black Dynamite

            Oh, I also think MBDTF is his overall best. I do think there is a clear number one between College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation and 808’s & Heartbreak, though I love every one of those albums.

          • It’s a little tougher to pick a number one from that group. I didn’t really like 808s, though.

          • I didn’t really like 808s, even though Heartless is great.

          • Black Dynamite

            808’s grew on me after a lot of listens. I think it has a few standout tracks but it’s definitely last of the ones I mentioned.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I’m going to embarrass myself when we list that one.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I’m annoyed Spice Girls wasn’t on the 90’s list to be fair.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          I never owned a Spice Girls album. And yet, I’ve seen Spice World at least twice.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    I finally got a chance to listen, and that was an amazing question. My office mate who doesn’t watch (but knows who Ken is) and I are struggling to whittle the list down to 5 albums. In contention are:

    Nirvana – Nevermind (Definite)
    Lauryn Hill – The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Definite)
    Notorious B.I.G. – she and I can’t decide between Life After Death and Ready to Die
    A Tribe Called Quest – she and I again disagree between Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders
    TLC – CrazySexyCool (this one is my pick for a maybe – I was obsessed with it)
    Big L – Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous (my pick for a maybe)

    But I also listened to so much Cure and Ani Difranco and David Bowie.. I wouldn’t even know where to start with those.

    • Black Dynamite

      Which side of The Low End Theory/Midnight Marauders debate did you fall on?

      Also, I love CrazySexyCool and am now kicking myself for not including it in my honorable mentions.

      • EmAndScoutInBK

        I was on the Midnight Marauders side, and my office mate was strongly on The Low End Theory side. I don’t feel as strongly as she does. I just listen to Midnight Marauders more. How about you?

        I’m glad someone else feels the same way about including CrazySexyCool among the greats! That album is solidly in rotation, so I probably shouldn’t have used past tense when I said “was obsessed.”

        • Black Dynamite

          I’ve gone back and forth so many times between the two. I would listen to one album and decide it’s the better of the two but then listen to the other a while later and decide that one is better. That’s why I asked the question, those two albums are so close and great. There is no wrong answer with whichever one you pick. Currently I have Low End as the slightly better album.

          • andythesaint

            Point in favour: one of them has Scenario on it.

          • Black Dynamite

            Perhaps the best “posse cut” of all time but that’s a list for a different day.

          • Neither have “Left my Wallet in El Segundo”, though.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          I love TLC but was never really exposed to them in album form.

    • gouis

      David Bowie is the GOAT but the 90s were probably his weakest decade.