Survivor Fantasy League Scoreboard- HHH week 3

It’s an octopus! It’s a rock! No, it’s the PRP Fantasy League standings!


Patrick was on about 15% of teams- teams that clearly did not share Lauren’s views on redheads. You can see the full player popularity rankings here:ย Purple Rock Pick-4 Fantasy Teams

Individual scoring

Immunity challenge: 3 points for the Heroes, 2 points for the Healers

Every non-Patrick on the Hustlers tribe gets 1 VTEP point.

Pick-4 League

It’s a six-way tie for first this week in Pick-4, with several regular commenters among the lead pack. Violina23 is one of those tied for first, which puts her 122 spots ahead of her husband. This is very on-brand for Violina. Long-time players Judson Helland and Joseph Finn are also tied for first, along with noted podcast denier The Sky Is Falling.

Team name
(sorted by rank)
Total points
Team Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
2Icy Truth180Ben-64Chrissy-51Devon-30Joe-35
2Survivor Central180Ben-64Chrissy-51Joe-35Ryan-30
6Team at benjaminshever on twitter dot com168Ben-64Chrissy-51Desi-23Devon-30
7I played Survivor once162Ben-64Chrissy-51Mike-36Roark-11
9Diego Armando160Ben-64Devon-30Mike-36Ryan-30
10Hogan's Heroes and also Healers and Hustlers (TheForRealDeal)159Ali-8Ben-64Chrissy-51Mike-36
11Luckylucky 158Ben-64Chrissy-51Cole-32Roark-11
12Alan Ball's Six Feet Over and True Blonde (indescribable hat)156Ben-64Chrissy-51Devon-30Roark-11
16King of the Jungle153Ali-8Ben-64Chrissy-51Ryan-30
18Purple Rock John152Ben-64Desi-23Devon-30Joe-35
20Commissioner Gordon150Ben-64Cole-32JP-24Ryan-30
20Padme's Body Double150Ben-64Cole-32Devon-30JP-24
24Dezbot's Dumbasses149Ben-64Cole-32Desi-23Devon-30
24Have You Guys Seen My Bag? (@TrueAlainer)149Ben-64Cole-32Desi-23Ryan-30
24Team Jeff is really really really really hot (Star Z)149Chrissy-51Cole-32Mike-36Ryan-30
29The Sky is Falling146Chrissy-51Jessica-24Joe-35Mike-36
31I love Avra143Ben-64Cole-32Desi-23Jessica-24
31Rippert's Brazilian Butt Cheeks143Ali-8Ben-64Joe-35Mike-36
31Saturday Night and the Palsys (SNP)143Chrissy-51Cole-32Devon-30Ryan-30
31The AVClub Disqus Memorial Team (Kingoftonga)143Ali-8Ashley-35Ben-64Mike-36
35Ryan's team142Ashley-35Chrissy-51Cole-32JP-24
37coconuts 141Chrissy-51Jessica-24Mike-36Ryan-30
37That Kevin Martin (Super duper fan)141Ben-64Chrissy-51Jessica-24Simone-2
39Camp Grandma 140Ben-64Chrissy-51Desi-23Simone-2
42BananaGrub (contact via email)137Alan-7Ben-64Mike-36Ryan-30
42Jeff Probst's Hairpiece137Ben-64Cole-32Ryan-30Roark-11
42Kelley Wentworth is Bae137Ben-64Cole-32Devon-30Roark-11
46Black Sheep136Chrissy-51Cole-32Desi-23Ryan-30
46Something Clever (Emma)136Chrissy-51Cole-32Desi-23Devon-30
48Ad Astra (torchoflaw)135Ben-64Devon-30Ryan-30Roark-11
48What up with that! (@Adam__Hebert)135Chrissy-51Devon-30Jessica-24Ryan-30
50Hungry vs. Hungry vs. Hippos (ASD)134Ali-8Ben-64Chrissy-51Roark-11
50John's a Chump (purplerockmatt)134Cole-32Lauren-36Mike-36Ryan-30
50Random Luck134Ben-64Cole-32Lauren-36Simone-2
54The Flying Turtles (VaderDawsn)132Ashley-35Cole-32Joe-35Ryan-30
55aj hiller131Ashley-35Ben-64Ryan-30Simone-2
57Sanger's Song130Ali-8Ashley-35Chrissy-51Mike-36
57Team Winners130Chrissy-51Cole-32Lauren-36Roark-11
62Kristan Marie129Ben-64Devon-30JP-24Roark-11
65Kent McK128Cole-32Devon-30Mike-36Ryan-30
65No Hustle, All Luck (prettyboyprobst)128Chrissy-51Devon-30Mike-36Roark-11
68GeorgeCarlo's Team127Ali-8Chrissy-51Cole-32Mike-36
69Something Quirky (HectorTheWellEndowed)126Ali-8Ben-64JP-24Ryan-30
69Survivor? I barely even know her126Ali-8Ben-64Devon-30Jessica-24
69Team zsetton126Ali-8Ashley-35Chrissy-51Cole-32
73BatLeon's Bad Picks Inc.124Chrissy-51Cole-32Ryan-30Roark-11
73F***ing Stick124Chrissy-51Cole-32Devon-30Roark-11
73Rambo Culpepper124Ashley-35Desi-23Devon-30Mike-36
78Alycia Swift123Alan-7Chrissy-51Joe-35Ryan-30
81Bobfromthebayou (@bobfromthebayou)121Cole-32Devon-30Jessica-24Joe-35
81Doomed (bassmanxvi)121Ali-8Chrissy-51Cole-32Ryan-30
81Fire GOOD! No Fire BAD! (@CheekzKER)121Chrissy-51Cole-32Joe-35Patrick-3
86Floats & Goats (@SquamLaker)120Ben-64Desi-23Patrick-3Ryan-30
86P Onocrotalus120Devon-30JP-24Lauren-36Ryan-30
89Boonk Gang Whole Lot Of Gang Ish119Desi-23Devon-30Mike-36Ryan-30
89Purple Rock Mark119Ali-8Ben-64Mike-36Roark-11
91Charlie Groton118Chrissy-51Cole-32Jessica-24Roark-11
91Ms. Sweaterfan118Ali-8Chrissy-51Jessica-24Joe-35
93Diego's Armanbro117Alan-7Chrissy-51Desi-23Mike-36
93House Slytheryan117Chrissy-51Cole-32Desi-23Roark-11
97A Team Has No Name115Cole-32Jessica-24Joe-35JP-24
97Bring back The Mole!115Alan-7Ali-8Ben-64Mike-36
99Team Not Gonna Win So I'm Picking Favorites114Ashley-35Cole-32Lauren-36Roark-11
102Crom's League of Losers113Ben-64Joe-35Patrick-3Roark-11
102Ethan "I fucking swear if I get the first goddamn 4 boots again" Kyle113Chrissy-51Devon-30Ryan-30Simone-2
102I don't need to be carried, bro!113Alan-7Chrissy-51Cole-32Desi-23
102Rygel's Raiders113Ali-8Ben-64Devon-30Roark-11
107Jersey Luck112Alan-7Chrissy-51Jessica-24Ryan-30
107My Grandpa Knew Papa Smurf (Launchpad McQuack)112Joe-35Lauren-36Ryan-30Roark-11
107Sad Lil112Chrissy-51Jessica-24Katrina-1Lauren-36
111Ali and the seafarers (SirLiveAlot)111Ali-8Ben-64Lauren-36Patrick-3
112Ms Woozah Knows Nothing110Ali-8Ashley-35Ben-64Patrick-3
112Team Gonna Do It110Cole-32Devon-30Jessica-24JP-24
114Ethan "If I get the first 4 goddamn boots again" Kyle109Ali-8Joe-35Lauren-36Ryan-30
119Dig Doug107Chrissy-51JP-24Ryan-30Simone-2
119Dubious Rob107Ali-8Ben-64JP-24Roark-11
119Wubba Lubba Dub Dub (jniedj)107Devon-30Mike-36Ryan-30Roark-11
124Green Monkeys106Ali-8Chrissy-51Desi-23Jessica-24
124So Casual (danomite10)106Ali-8Chrissy-51Mike-36Roark-11
124Taako From Teevhii106Ali-8Ben-64Desi-23Roark-11
124Tiago Team106Ali-8Chrissy-51Desi-23JP-24
130Diego's Armandad105Alan-7Chrissy-51Desi-23JP-24
130The Schlong105Ali-8Cole-32Joe-35Ryan-30
133DIE@@!@##$%^&*&^%$#@#$% (Judson Helland)104Alan-7Ashley-35Cole-32Ryan-30
133Head Architect Sylvia104Ali-8Ben-64Devon-30Simone-2
133Twigs and Sticks104Ali-8Ben-64Ryan-30Simone-2
137The Four Witches (Barbara Anderson)103Cole-32Devon-30Ryan-30Roark-11
141There's Something Wrong With That Team (Something Quirky)101Ben-64Desi-23Patrick-3Roark-11
1424 8 15 16 23 42 (@FayeBlueArt)100Chrissy-51Mike-36Roark-11Simone-2
142I am 150 to 200% percent happy with my picks right now (Judson Helland)100Jessica-24Joe-35Ryan-30Roark-11
142Kate's Four (Kate Weaver/@kateeppweaver)100Ashley-35JP-24Ryan-30Roark-11
146Adli Hanif97Cole-32Jessica-24Ryan-30Roark-11
148Come On In Here96Alan-7Desi-23Mike-36Ryan-30
149Team Foshizzle95Chrissy-51Patrick-3Ryan-30Roark-11
151By Hustlers you Meant Hookers, Right? (NearlyNina)94Desi-23Devon-30Ryan-30Roark-11
153Good lookings 93Ali-8Cole-32Desi-23Devon-30
153Nates Greats93Ali-8Chrissy-51Desi-23Roark-11
155Fran Team92Desi-23Mike-36Patrick-3Ryan-30
160Swiss quality picks89Alan-7Ali-8Chrissy-51Desi-23
162Hotties vs. bodies vs. naughties (Judson Helland)88Cole-32Desi-23Patrick-3Ryan-30
164 The Guilty Remnant (macontosh2000)87Ali-8Cole-32Mike-36Roark-11
164Crystal Lynne87Cole-32Desi-23Ryan-30Simone-2
164Team Pretty People (John C)87Ali-8Cole-32Desi-23JP-24
167JoJo Bevi86Ali-8Jessica-24JP-24Ryan-30
167Prom King86Ali-8Ben-64Patrick-3Roark-11
169Poles vs. Balls vs. Probst (Judson Helland)85Ali-8Desi-23Jessica-24Ryan-30
169Sneaky Sneaky85Ali-8Mike-36Ryan-30Roark-11
169SuckitupButterCup (TiminSoCal)85Ali-8Devon-30Mike-36Roark-11
172Nipi Ipin84Alan-7Chrissy-51Jessica-24Simone-2
172Team Corndog84Alan-7Mike-36Ryan-30Roark-11
172The Jolly Olly Man84Ali-8Ashley-35Ryan-30Roark-11
175HBO CEO of Tits82Cole-32Desi-23Jessica-24Patrick-3
175I've Been Bamboozled! (Drums X)82Cole-32Mike-36Patrick-3Roark-11
177Mike Hirsch81Alan-7Ali-8Mike-36Ryan-30
179Cucharal (@Gaceru)80Alan-7Ali-8Joe-35Ryan-30
181Culpepper was robbed.78Alan-7Jessica-24Mike-36Roark-11
182BadPlayer91's Black Widows Brigade Redux77Ali-8Ashley-35Desi-23Roark-11
182pisau cukur77Ali-8Ben-64Patrick-3Simone-2
184Purple Rocks Keep Falling On My Head (Joseph Finn)76Alan-7Desi-23Joe-35Roark-11
189Black Dynamite (Blurry Denzel)73Alan-7Cole-32Desi-23Roark-11
189Team Pooks73Ali-8Devon-30JP-24Roark-11
194Diego's Armomdo72Alan-7Devon-30Jessica-24Roark-11
194Zach Attack72Alan-7Jessica-24Ryan-30Roark-11
196Roy and Pris Batty 71Ali-8Devon-30Patrick-3Ryan-30
197Threes (@gescovar)70Ali-8Devon-30Ryan-30Simone-2
198Prediction: 34th (i and 1)69Ali-8Desi-23Joe-35Patrick-3
198The Ginja Ninja Crew (Dutch)69Cole-32Desi-23Patrick-3Roark-11
202Have You Guys Seen My Bag? @TrueAlainer64Alan-7Cole-32Desi-23Simone-2
204Hot Stuff52Ali-8Patrick-3Ryan-30Roark-11
204Legendary Locks 252Mike-36Patrick-3Roark-11Simone-2
207Carrots' Garden49Ali-8Mike-36Patrick-3Simone-2
209Side Character44Ali-8Desi-23Roark-11Simone-2
211POC for Me40Alan-7Ali-8Desi-23Simone-2
212WelldressedEvil's Folly36Ali-8Desi-23Patrick-3Simone-2
215Zuvivor's 429Alan-7Ali-8Patrick-3Roark-11

Champions and Outcasts Leagues

It was a tough week for JaredHolland32 and Ms. Sweaterfan, who put their trust in a redhead and got burned. XL Pelican retains the lead in Champions League, opening up a 3-point lead on our own Purple Rock Mark. In Outcasts League, the Purple Rock staff is dominating- I’m in first, Matt is in second, Official PRP Bellhop Saturday Night Palsy is in third, and Emma is in fourth. Clearly the key to succeeding in this league is to have done no research whatsoever.

Champions League Rank
Total points
Player points Pick 1
Pick 2
1XL Pelican99Ben64Joe35
4Purple Tally60Jessica24Lauren36
5Purple Rock Mark43Alan7Mike36
7Barbara Anderson33Cole32Katrina1
9Mike Hirsch13Simone2Roark11

Otherย leagues

We allowed people to do their own draft-based leagues again this season, because drafts are fun. You can find the results of those leagues here (click the tabs at the bottom to switch to see the other leagues):ย PRP fantasy leagues.

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John is the co-host of the Purple Rock Survivor Podcast. He can get loud too, what the fuck!

Favorite seasons: Heroes vs. Villains, Cagayan, Pearl Islands, Tocantins, Cambodia
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128 thoughts on “Survivor Fantasy League Scoreboard- HHH week 3

  1. Feeling real good about my chances in Outcasts. Plus the rest of you are all people I’ll truly enjoy beating!

  2. First page on Pick 4 again. Also, I’m besting the queen, Barbara Anderson, in both Pick 4 and FOTM league. Life is good, or it would be if John would ever mention my team in Outcast. Two previous seasons where I get nothing when I’m eliminated and now I get skipped when I do sort of well. Emma is tied for fourth with me for Christ’s sake!! I’m just going to have to win it all to get the recognition I deserve.

      1. But first in people’s hearts, right? At least that is what my mom said after competitions I was in.

    1. You and AWE almost got shout outs in Pick-4. But I decided to reserve shout outs for only the best of the best this week. Like me, for instance. Did you guys know I’m in first place in Outcasts?

      1. For now. Joe will get blindsided with an idol in his pocket and JP is clearly not a real person on this season.

      2. Remember when you had Obvious Winner Michelle in KR and I still beat you? Good times, good times!

  3. Obligatory Roark song lyrics of the week:

    Say what you wanna say
    And let the words fall out
    I wanna see you be ROAR(k)

    (Seriously, Brave and Roar? The same song.)

    1. Ever since this cast was announced, I’ve had The Brunching Shuttlecocks “Bjork Song” stuck in my head, only with “Roark” swapped in.

      Oh, Roark, oh Roark,
      were you brought by the stork?
      Or were you created from butter and cork?
      I love you so much that I act like a dork.

  4. In better news, I’m within spitting range of the top 20 in the pick 4 league! And man does it feel weird to be rooting for Joe ~not~ to get voted out with an idol in his pocket.

  5. Draft Time Bitches League Update

    (I didn’t create this league, but I didn’t see any updates in the last two weeks, so I’ll do the summaries)

    @Assistant Dragon Slayer is in the lead with 25, still with all 3 players. But @Kemper Boyd is close behind with 22 (and all their players too). @hornacek:disqus (that’s me!) and @Alycia Swift are tied for 3rd place with 20 – Alycia has all of their players but during the draft I got stuck with the last player and ended up with Katrina, so I’m down to two (Go Chrissy! Go Joe!). @EmAndScoutInBK is in 5th with 17 and suffers their first loss (bye Patrick), with @Ms Woozah in last place with 13, who I believe picked Simone over Devon.

    Also, in the fantasy league standings sheet for this league, I can’t help but notice that the font for my name is smaller than the font for the other players. I am sure this was not intentional.

    1. The only person you successfully @ed was yourself. @Takko_From_Teevhii:disqus and I spent all afternoon teaching you yesterday!

      1. I know. I instinctively type “@” and then start typing their name – if it’s not in the drop-down list, then don’t get officially @ed.

        All I remember from your class on how to “@” people is “It takes a lot of extra work, and you have to know the person’s actual handle. It took me years to remember the names I see here, now you want me to memorize everyone’s other name?

        And you must have failed your own course – you couldn’t even properly “@” Taako From Teevhii’s name.

          1. If he’d just said Hardy Boys, I would totally have gotten it. He’s King of Deep Cut references.

  6. I wonder if everyone who’s been carrying Joe thus far is in for a rough ride after the swap. Because the Healers have been winning challenges in spite of him, he would have never found the idol without Cole, and it seems like everyone was on board to vote him out if the Healers ever went to Tribal. Can he continue to lead in points earned once the Healers are broken up?

    1. Joe has a chance to find another idol after the swap next week, depending on if he goes to another beach. Cha-CHING!

        1. Joe won’t have time to search for the idol, he hasn’t even finished building his first spy-shack.

          1. Hey, Joe, I need some help with this last leafy branch, I can’t seem to get this final one to lay flat and cover me all the way.

        2. “Hey you, I need help with this idol clue. It shows a drawing of an idol that’s under the ground right in front of an object that looks exactly like our treemail station. So what this means is … I have no idea where the idol is hidden.”

      1. Are we assuming that the idols are similarly hidden on each beach? After Tai found the Mana idol, I would’ve thought production would vary that by beach.

        1. Didn’t Tai find a second idol in Game Changers when he went to another beach by looking in the same location?

          1. Yeah, which from what I remember hearing, was something Production specifically said they didn’t want to happen. Thus it was confusing that it was so easily done during GC, and I would hope they’d avoid this season. But if they are similarly located, both Cole and Joe would be on idol watch.

            Maybe their attempt to avoid this is the directional element (Symbols showed the idol being by the water, 5 feet away, toward the beach). So, if they varied the direction in which the idol is from a specific point, Cole and Joe would still need to find the clue on a tree before they could get the idol, putting them only a bit ahead of anyone else. Or I guess they could simply try the same as at their own beach, and hope it’s there. Which would increase the risk of getting caught digging.

          2. I can’t remember any specific examples other than the GC one, but have there been seasons where idols are found on different beaches pre-swap and they are hidden in the exact same location at each camp?

          3. Hmmm, in Philippines the idol was located in the same place on all 3 beaches, but it didn’t result in anyone being able to get multiple. Can’t think of others off the top of my head. I just remember that being a discussion during GC.

        2. At the very least, the know the way clues are hidden this season so can be on the look out for that

        3. I suspect they were probably hidden similarly pre-swap. Probably learning from GC, I’d imagine they will re-hide the idols post-swap.

          At least that’s what I think makes sense…

    2. I don’t know what you’re talking about, Joe is totally going to win this thing *covers ears and pours a jumbo glass of self pity wine*

    1. I discovered survivor in between MvGX and GC. I almost did a team for GC but didn’t. I’m kinda disappointed because I’m pretty sure I would have taken brad and tai.

      1. Reigning Champion Jersey Luck needs thos two to go down in flames. Reigning Champion Jersey Luck needs the Heroes tribe to have a dominating performance.

  7. Things are gonna change because of the swap though. I seriously regret taking Jessica off my team. Should of kept 3 Healers.

  8. The shout-out made me WAY too happy. And yes, Mrs. Violina (aka BassManXVI) got a kick out of it too.

    This is the first time I didn’t consider (read: forgot to) change up my team after the first episode. I didn’t realize until Wed. night that I had 3 “Healers” (quotes for @EmAndScoutinBK) so I’m probably pretty lucky they didn’t implode a a tribe before the swap. Which is kinda what I was hoping for after Chrissy’s first episode, and her mathematical argument that 2 is greater than 3…

  9. DAS Bus update

    Alycia Swift is pulling ahead of Diego Armando and myself, with a 10-point gap between her fully-intact 1st place team and my 2nd place team (which is now down 2 players). I’m ahead of Diego by a point and that is really only because of Joe and his idol. I was doomed the way things were going this episode because I had both Patrick and Lauren on my team. With a tribal swap on the way, though, who knows what will happen in the sole 3-team league?

  10. Fan Favourite League

    @godot123:disqus is in the lead with a promising looking team, and corndogshuffle is in second with a team we’ve seen a little less from. @disqus_sjBnbSyo83:disqus is a close third but lost Patrick this week. I’m out of last place!! Purple Tally and Super duper fan are one point apart at fifth and sixth respectively, and are both down to two players as well.

      1. I am 1 for 3 in mine against the witch. Given how badly I got stomped last year, this is encouraging.

        1. Ha! I know what you mean though I probably wasn’t clear. All 3 boots were on my team. I am in deep do do.

    1. Thanks for doing the update I was really tired yesterday and couldn’t talk myself into it (also, if you want to do these generally, go ahead, I feel I’m not creative enough to keep up good commentary all season)

      Also, I think you have the best team by far at this point in the season

  11. Wow I’m doing well on all my teams.

    Sorry I haven’t posted much. Trying to pack to move as we just bought house.

    1. That’s such a life-changing event! Sending my best to you (moving is stressful)! Also, congrats on your teams.

      1. Thanks. Packing has been an adventure. Cleaning the attick in particular. I’m finding a lot of things I did not know we had.

        Me to my husband:
        We have China?

        Why do we have a tent? We don’t camp.

        Why do we have a Jackie Chan action figure?

        1. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ I hated going through things to move. I didn’t have the energy for all the ghosts. I tried to get rid of lots of things, but there are still boxes in the garage I’ve never looked in. Sigh.

          1. I have gotten rid of a ton of stuff. Hubby been to Restore to donate (habitat for humanity’s store) and goodwill at lest five times this month.

  12. All goofs aside, I just want to say that this website and the community that supports it never fail to make me feel proud to be a part of the fun. You people are all wonderful and I wish I could hug you all.

    Except for @purplerockjohn:disqus . Fuck that guy.

    1. You and me both. Cubs fans are just as awful as White Sox fans. They were just ashamed of themselves for longer.

      1. I don’t really know much about Chicago fanbases, all I know is…that this is annoying, every year. Same with the Capitals. Fortunately I still hate the Redskins.

        1. As a Red Sox fan I have to say, if it comes down to Yanks/Cubs–I may have to root for the Yankees.

          Man, it felt gross typing that!

          1. Once I went away to college and then stayed here, I kind of disposed of the collective brainwashing we all got during the Jeter/Torre years, and then when all the players I grew up with left the team, I basically stopped caring. But when it comes down to four teams left, old habits die hard.

          2. I can’t tell which part made you feel gross.
            “As a Red Sox fan” or: “root for the Yankees”

    2. Do not hate me, but my fiance has been a Cubs fan his entire life. That game tonight was exhausting, and I legit felt badly for Nationals fans. Worse, as a lifelong Dodger fan, I have to go through being on opposite sides for the next week. Last year, I wanted the win for him, but I don’t think he realizes all bets are off now. It could get ugly.

      1. Oh, I’ll never hold athletic fandoms against anybody. We gotta do what we gotta do in sports. (Well, okay, I hold some tennis fandoms in reproach, but we don’t need to get into that here.) And yes, that game was grueling. Happy for your husband, though…those close, long games are exhilarating when you’re on the winning side.

        But I am also always here for household wars when family members have to face off. Because, at base, I’m an evil person.

    3. I’m also in on the boycott, because Twitter is the worst. I’ll be using my valuable goofing-off time in the comments here today instead.

      1. I’m boycotting Twitter the way I’m boycotting Hobby Lobby. I haven’t had to change my behavior at all, which is my favorite type of activism.

    1. I was rooting for the Nats (that replay was dumb. I get it, but it was dumb) but I’m in this line.

    2. I think I can only root for the Astros. Cubs and Yankees are right out. A Dodgers win doesn’t make me happy but it doesn’t make me mad.

      1. You know how people keep making jokes about the Cubs winning in 2016 knocked us into the Upside Down and that’s why everything is terrible? I don’t like it, but I think the Yankees winning will put everything back to normal.

  13. Uh for the record my pre-ep one and post ep one teams are both there the one with the “4 goddamn” is the post one and Goddamn 4 is the pre

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