Survivor Game Changers Week 5 Predictions and Poll

Another week where our predictions will just be a blind stab in the dark. At least there’s SOME story to back us up this week, if that matters.

Just one pick out of 15 this week, so make it a good one.

Boot Predictions

Andy: There’s plenty of reasons why it won’t be Debbie this week. Her new tribe doesn’t lose immunity. She swaps to a tribe where the former Nukus need her as a number. She swaps to a tribe where she can flip on those same former Nukus/nu-Manas. This was filmed in 2016 and that year never gave us what we wanted. But, please, Survivor gods. Give us this. Do not let Debbie hang around another week longer.

John: If I keep predicting Debbie, it has to come true eventually, right? My hope is that the people that thought it would be useful to keep her around as the low woman on the totem pole have realized that it’s time to just shorten the totem pole.

Emma: I want to predict Debbie. You want to predict Debbie. We want it to be Debbie. But I keep predicting Debbie and she keeps surviving. I can’t help but feel responsible. So in a situation where the tribes are swapping and I have no idea what the new configurations will be, I’m picking the person who got a random scene last week. It’s Sarah. (Okay Survivor gods, you can let Debbie go home now).

Mark: With the tribe swap, we have no idea how this is going to go. I see a couple of important power players in Sarah, Troy, and Brad, but otherwise, there’s not much to go on. My only lead is that it’s probably an original Mana due to numbers, and I’d say Sandra, but I’m sure she’ll weasel her way out somehow. Aubry it is.

Matt: Ozzy. Because I know fuck all and it would be funny if they brought Rob to the island to celebrate his milestone on the episode he gets voted out. Also, now is the time you want to take him out before the merge that you know is coming soon and when your tribes have just been swapped again.

Andy John Emma
Mark Matt
First or Second Boot
Aubry Ciera Ciera Ciera Ciera Ciera
Third Out JT Debbie Cirie JT Cirie JT
Fourth Out JT Sandra Sandra  Sandra Varner JT
Fifth Out JT Sandra JT JT JT JT
Sixth Boot Debbie Debbie Sarah  Aubry Ozzy  question-mark
Preseason Winner Pick Malcolm Tony
Andrea Malcolm

Time to make your picks. And feel free to track how your personal picks do throughout the year. I won’t make mention of it or anything, but you can still feel good about it.

Who will be the fifth boot of Survivor: Game Changers?

  • Debbie (26% Votes)
  • Sandra (19% Votes)
  • Sarah (19% Votes)
  • Aubry (10% Votes)
  • Ozzy (9% Votes)
  • Jeff Varner (7% Votes)
  • Sierra Dawn Thomas (3% Votes)
  • Tai (1% Votes)
  • Troy (1% Votes)
  • Andrea (1% Votes)
  • Michaela (1% Votes)
  • Hali (1% Votes)
  • Brad Culpepper (1% Votes)
  • Zeke (1% Votes)
  • Cirie (0% Votes)

Total Voters: 90

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Co-host of the Purple Rock Survivor Podcast and the Canadian of the group, Andy has been watching Survivor continuously since the very beginning and likes to treat that as some kind of virtue to lord over others.

Favourite seasons: Heroes vs Villains, Cook Islands, Palau, The Amazon, Cagayan
Favourite players: Boston Rob, Kim Spradlin, Tony Vlachos, Cirie Fields, Yul Kwon, Rob Cesternino
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290 thoughts on “Survivor Game Changers Week 5 Predictions and Poll

    1. The mix of emotions and unusual social interactions within that 40 seconds of last weeks episode are what really make me unsure of her mental state. Again, not a doctor or someone with the necessary background, but it seems unstable that she goes from calm aggression to screaming at Brad to shaking with laughter to clutching her fact in frustration to smiling and chuckling.

        1. I forgot about Debbie’s award-winning run as Eliza Doolittle in the Broadway revival of My Fair Lady.

          1. Except Debbie made them change Eliza’s last name. No way was she playing a character called “Doolittle”.

          2. “Debbie Wanner presents My Fair Goddess, a one-woman show, starring Debbie Wanner as Eliza DooManyGreatThings. Directed by Debbie Wanner, Music by Debbie Wanner, Written by Debbie Wanner, Set design by Debbie Wanner, Lighting by Debbie Wanner, Costumes by Debbie Wanner, Makeup by Debbie Wanner. YOU’RE WELCOME”

      1. The benefit of my armchair psychoanalysis is that I called her a clinical narcissist: which means that even if a lot of what she was doing was an act, it still can be true (since putting on an act like that is ALSO waaaaay narcissistic).

      2. I am also not a doctor or psychologist, but everything about Debbie in that scene was super weird. If I’m giving her any benefit of the doubt, I would say the “you crushed my heart!” moment MIGHT have shown that she realized somewhere along the way that she was being completely irrational and ridiculous and was trying to play it off as though she wasn’t really taking the argument that seriously. This, of course, is also fairly crazy because we pretty clearly saw that she was legitimately very angry moments before.

  1. I want it to be Debbie but am afraid to vote for her, so I’m going with Michaela as my deflection vote. Tea me wrong, Michaela!

      1. It’s just a decoy boot vote because I can’t pick Debbie, because otherwise Debbie won’t go home, because I am terrible at boot picks.


  2. Who do we think goes to Exile Island after the swap? Just for the call-back, I’ll say Troy(zan) so that he can get there and legitimately say “This is MY island!”

    1. I want it to be someone I won’t mind spending a portion of the episode with. So, hopefully Aubry, Sandra, Andrea, Varner, or Cirie.

      1. This, plus I want it to be someone I won’t mind receiving an idol clue. I wouldn’t say for certain that he/she will get one, but there’s certainly a chance. With that said, the venn diagram of those two conditions is nearly a circle.

          1. Therefore I’m pulling hard for Sandra. Gives her some breathing room, and some screentime, but also lets the A-plot shift to someone else being awesome (hopefully Cirie).

          2. I disagree. One of the biggest dangers for Sandra would be losing those two days in which she can build bonds and put forward other targets. If she’s not around, it would be pretty easy for everyone to agree that they’ll vote her out next tribal. She can and has whipped votes to survive tribals.

      2. Best case scenario: the list you mentioned
        Medium case scenario: someone boring who just gets sent off in a boat after the swap and comes back next episode without getting any screen time
        Worst case scenario: it’s Debbie or Troy and we spend half the episode with them 🙁

    2. This could go so many ways, really depends on who is sending and what Jeff says about it.

      Like, it would make sense to send Ozzy to wear him out, but if there is an idol, you probably want to send someone not known to look for idols. Sierra would be a good combo. But i agree with Mike, hopefully it is someone we want to spend time with, lol

      1. I would guess that it would be like Kaoh-Rong where they randomly swap into 2 tribes and whoever draws the odd-colored buff goes to Exile, and that person joins the losing tribe next episode. Don’t think it’ll be anyone’s choice who goes to Exile.

        1. Ah, this would make sense. In which case i’ll combine my hope it’s someone entertaining with a hope it’s someone I want to have an idol.

    3. For some reason I’m picturing Aubry going to Exile. She’s just gotten such a non-edit that I could see her going to Exile, getting a tiny screen time bump and then getting voted out in the next episode for her trouble :/

  3. I’m with Emma on having picked Debbie a few times, so no longer jinxing it. Sarah’s random scene last week tells me she makes a play and either a) succeeds and boots someone like Ozzy or b) fails and goes home. Given her track record, I’m picking fails and goes home
    TL;DR – what Emma said

  4. So there are really only two ways to come down on last week’s Sarah-Troy scene. Either they’re forming a dynamic duo dominating their way to the finals, or one or both are booted in short fashion.

    I’m very strongly leaning against predicting the former, not only because it’d be terrible TV/gameplay but because of OWBC. Brad’s getting a great edit, but something that may have slipped through the cracks for a lot of us is that Debbie’s meltdown at Mana beach happened after the Immunity Challenge (see: There are a number of conceivable reasons the editors would mess with the timeline. Namely, it provides better structure for the episode since we spend the back half of the episode with Nuku, who’s going to tribal. Moreover, we watch the blow up with the inciting incident (the reward challenge) fresh in our minds.

    But if you put on your tin foil hats with me, it may be to reinforce Brad’s winner edit. During the IC while Debbie is spewing vitriol at Brad, we hear him say and see the subtitle “I love you. I don’t know why you’re mad at me.” What is the purpose of including Brad’s response? Is this meant to show that Brad is the bigger person and is willing to work with the woman who attacked him all afternoon? The comment makes sense if the blow up hadn’t yet happened. But in the chronology of the edit we get, how does this comment function?

    What I’m getting at is that Sarah’s out next. I’d like to say Troy, but with his idol and my reluctance to jinx anything, it’s Sarah.

    First or Second boot: Tony or Cirie (+1)
    Third boot: Cirie
    Fourth boot: Hali, Cirie, or JT
    Fifth boot: Hali, Ozzy, or JT (+1)
    Sixth boot: Sarah
    Pre-season winner: SDT
    Score: 2

    1. Re timing of Debbie’s blowup. Do the Survivor producers normally mess with the timeline like that? Kind of disappointing tbh as I usually credit Survivor with being pretty good about that.

      1. In Survivor’s defense, I am assuming they had to put in there for a reason (like it comes up again), but they didn’t didn’t consider it significant enough to break their formula by putting it in post-immunity challenge

        1. Was more genuinely curious more than anything else – especially since she making all those comments during the IC as well. I don’t think it really affects the story from my perspective (or at least I can’t think of how it might at this point).

        2. Wasn’t that the scene of Tai looking for the idol though? Couldn’t the blow-up still have happened earlier?

          1. From what I have read, it seems more or all of the Debbie incident was post-IC, but its all speculation

        3. I’ll add that I’m 100% with the editors on this. The post-immunity stuff at Nuku was storytelling gold, and the last thing it needed was more wacky Debbie inserts. Plus, since the stories didn’t intersect meaningfully, telling them out of order is fine. The fallout from Debbie’s subplot is still coming.

          I also think people are leaping too aggressively to winner’s edits. Yes, Brad’s edit is consistent with a win. It’s also consistent with his tribe being really dull, and still having enough events that they demand screen time, and the editors hating Debbie. I don’t think we’ve seen anything with Brad that can’t be justified as part of that episode’s internal story or perhaps as a pre-merge arc (say, Brad’s a likable contender…until CRAZY DEBBIE takes him down. Or Brad’s a likable contender…who Sandra turns into mincemeat).

          1. This is also how I feel. Does Brad have a potential winners edit? Yes. So does Sandra, Varner, Cirie, Sierra, most of the cast. So did Malcolm. Differing strengths but we are miles from Obvious Winner Brad

          2. I’m okay with a little bit of this type of creative editing too, and I actually think it’s kind of amazing that the specifics of Debbie’s ranting fit so well with both challenges. They lucked out that there was a balance beam both times I guess. It almost makes me want to watch that scene again (almost!) to see if I can tell specifically which challenge she’s talking about. Perhaps it would help her ranting make slightly more sense if we are comparing Hali’s performance in the second challenge with Debbie’s from the first? Although Debbie still sucked in the first challenge….

          3. Yes. I’m skeptical that you can really call a winner based on the edit most of the time, but especially this early in the game.

            Sure there’s the occasional Boston Rob, but the winner is rarely clear from the pre-merge edit. I’d say more often than not you cant even nail down a winner by the end of the season.

      2. They will even pull things episodes out of sequence, and re-colour people’s buffs. Survivor is less manipulative than other reality shows, but they’ve still got stories to tell.

    2. OR maybe it’s proof of Hali’s winner’s edit? She did receive some positive comments namely from Tai and if I recall correctly Brad. The rise of Hali continues.

      (I’m only joking, maybe you’re right with Brad’s winner edit. But I do wonder which edit it was supposed to improve).

      1. It was obviously part of Debbie’s winner edit – she stood up to the bully Brad and then singlehandedly won the challenge for her team (did you see how she got over the wall first??)

        1. Pardon me, how did I DARE to insult Debbie’s wonderful parkour skills. We are mere MORTALS before The Queen Debbie, with a job of Goddess as a part-time job. Queen Debbie the First, please forgive me for smudgeing Thou Name.

    3. It does explain why they didn’t even consider throwing the challenge to get rid of Debbie. She wasn’t a problem yet.

      1. Does Debbie’s post-reward challenge rants about the amount of time it took her and Hali to get across the balance beams make more/any sense if she was talking about the immunity challenge?

    4. I somehow missed this whole comment thread and did a whole spiel about the Debbie edit – thanks for bringing it up. Ahah. My bad.

  5. I was this close to voting Aubry, but I went with Debbie because PLEASE. Also, Aubry would legitimately be in trouble without a swap, but I think she has the skills to work her way out of her bad position on a new tribe (somewhat – not enough to win or anything).
    With regard to Sarah, it’s just too early for me to make that call. I said this in another post this week, but if I understand anything about Survivor editing (and I may not!) I think there is more story to come with the Troyzan/Sarah partnership. So, if they aren’t swapped together, I think they’ve both got to be safe until the merge. If they are swapped together, then I could potentially see one of them betraying the other. Ideally Sarah would live up to her “play like a criminal” mantra and help to blindside Troy, sending him home with his idol in his bulge. Though on the flip side, it could be just as entertaining to see Sarah go home the second time in a similar way to her first time – say, if she’s playing up being the swing vote and Troy gets fed up and convinces everyone to just vote her out. However, the downside of that scenario is that we’re still stuck with Troy and he has a BM™ under his belt :/

    So, my wish fulfillment vote is still Debbie, but I think there are a ton of ways this could play out. It could also be someone completely random like Andrea, Tai, Ozzy – even Sandra. Hopefully whatever happens is at least entertaining.

    1. There is definitely more story, but the editors have told such stories in a single episode before (see: Drew Christy).

      1. Very true! And those are some of the best standalone episodes, too! I just think it will be very telling if Troy and Sarah aren’t swapped together – to me that would mean we will have to wait a while for the pay off from their partnership.

        1. I’m not convinced that it has to be a Troy-Sarah plot. I think that scene also makes sense as a combo of “Remember, Troy has an idol” and “Sara is overconfident and aggressive”. If the next episode is Sarah pulling a solo-Drewchebag- or even just doing what she did post-swap in Cagayan- that scene is perfectly sensible set-up.

    2. Yeah Aubry is getting a weird inviedit that is usually reserved for someone who gets idoled out. Could be a swap boot too.

      1. Anna had a pretty good edit before the swap, as with Max and Peig-Gee (by good I mean ‘visible’).

  6. I hope it’s Debbie just to listen to Andy and John struggle to produce her best moment on the podcast.

    1. “Remember that time she ‘acted’ crazy to….get herself voted off? Yeah, that…”

        1. @superduperfan:disqus was right, I meant Liz, but it seemed that it was more Peter that she duped than Liz.

    2. Wait, what about the time Michele single-handedly lost the reward challenge for her tribe and went off to sulk in the ocean, and Debbie said she wondered if she was going off to drown herself?

      “Damn, Debbie!”

        1. I like to mention whenever people (and they do exist) talk about Michele being deserving of her win because of her great social game and challenge performance. It was so great that one of her tribemates joked that she was going off to kill herself after she lost a challenge and other tribe members laughed about it. So to me, it’s a Debbie moment.

          Besides, Cydney lost of a lot of good will with me for not voting for Aubry and her justification for it.

          1. Here’s the problem with why Cydney’s vote still rubs people the wrong way: everyone has said that she was much closer to Michele than she ever was to Aubry. So, yes, the justification does suck but I will take it over “yay, you finally started playing on Day 25!”

          2. Plus, in Cydney’s post-game interviews she said she didn’t vote for Aubry because Aubry voted her out. Then in the very next sentence, she says if Cydney/Michele/Tai had voted Aubry out at the final-4 then she expected Aubry would/should have voted for her to win because they had an alliance and worked together.

            You can’t say in a hypothetical that if you voted someone out they should have voted for you to win the game, but in real life have the positions reversed and then not vote for the person that voted you out in the exact same way. What a hypocrite.

          3. I’d also note, this isn’t like a 3-2 vote where Aubry CHOSE to send Cydney home rather than someone on the opposing alliance. It was final 4, Aubry knew, just as Cydney also knew, that getting rid of Tai was a stupid choice for both of them. They both turned on each other, went to fire making, and Cydney lost. A very different scenario then “she betrayed me.”

          4. I mean, Aubry was forced into it. She wanted to vote out Michele and go to the end with Cydney. But Michele had immunity. So unless she wanted to let herself get voted out, her only option was to convince Tai to vote for Cydney and force a tie. Aubry didn’t wake up that day thinking “I’m going to betray my most trusted alliance partner, ha ha ha ha!”

          5. Exactly. And Cydney was basically in the same situation, except that she wasn’t the one Michele targeted. They both made lemonade with lemons, but Cydney blamed Aubry, not the person who gave her lemons, Challenge-beast Michele.

          6. I can’t remember if Aubry was asked this question in her post-game interviews (and if she was, what her answer was), but I get the impression that if she had gone home at the final 4 she would have voted for Cydney, even though Cydney voted her out of the game

            Cydney was such a hypocrite in that final episode. Really turned me off her.

          1. You can explain it the way you can explain most things about me: laziness. Adding a gif required extra clicks. Too much effort.

  7. So with the swap, it once again becomes a crap shoot. There are multiple people who could be next, so as with Malcolm, I’ll go with an another out there pick- Brad.

    The story will be that Debbie will manage to convince others to vote him out (read as: Others decided to vote him out before Debbie came to them, cause he’s a big threat), and cause she voted out a likable guy, who came to play for her wife Monica, whom he loves very much, it will begin her villain fall from grace. Or the second possibility is that the person in the boat is Monica, and she came pull Brad from the game due to some family emergency ala Terry Deitz. I’m probably wrong, but it’s still worth a shot.

    20/19.Ciera (CORRECT)
    18.Malcolm (WRONG)
    17.Tai/JT (WRONG)
    16.JT (CORRECT)
    15.Brad (TBA)

    Pre-season winner pick: Hali (TBA)
    Mid-season winner pick: (TBA)

    And here is the mandatory Hali gif:

    1. I considered if the ‘return survivor’ could be something like that, but it seems pretty unlikely. Like, if Monica was pulling Brad for a family emergency, why would she travel to the game to get him? Just for the screen time?

      Could it be a loved-ones visit come SUPER early, and Monica is Brad’s loved one? Probably not, cause loved-one’s rarely get boat-ed in, usually they emerge from behind a magic bush, to which they later return.

      Also, Boston Rob.

      1. I know that it will probably be Boston Rob, I just came up with another possibility in which Brad could go home, even if it’s really unlikely.

      2. Monica is my guess – person who goes to exile gets comfort in form of a loved one. I’m not sure what else a former survivor would bring to the table (pep/strategy talk? build a shelter? help find an idol?). None of those seem really impressive to me or worth having a former survivor return to not compete.

      3. According to my Dish Network episode description (and it will be hidden behind spoilers) “One castaway is left floating on Exile Island after a tribe switch, and the exiled player receives a surprise visit”. Production is not flying out 14 people’s loved ones for the odd shot that one of them is the person in question

        1. Since Boston Rob never said “April Fools”, should we assume that Ozzy is going to Exile? I’m kind of disappointed if that’s the case because a large chunk of the episode is going to be devoted to showing how Ozzy’s thriving on Exile and other redundant/boring stuff that doesn’t impact the game.

          1. My only problem with that scenario is that people will call out Production if Ozzy just so happens to be the one to draw the Exile Island buff and Boston Rob just so happens to be the one to go to Exile Island to congratulate him.

          2. Eh, I’m whatever on the rigga morris of it all. My only thought is, how much time will BRob actually be spending out there? Can’t be more than 10-15 minutes. What’s the actual point of flying him out there? So let me pitch this scenario: there’s a HII somewhere at Exile, and you get Russell Hantz to be your idol truffle pig for an hour. That’s a real twist.

        2. this makes me more certain its Rupert teaching them how to make death traps, I mean a shelter

  8. I picked Sarah as my boot pick. Her comments in the episodes about changing her game comes off as someone heading towards a massive downfall rather than redemption. Also, I wouldn’t care of she left.

    This might be the time to get rid of Ozzy in one of those moves to get out challenge threats.

    Debbie may go after Brad but I can see that backfiring on her.

    And finally, I say Aubry gets more screentime that does not lead to her exit but the start of a longer storyline.

    1. I have the same optimism for Aubry here. The swap seems likely to make her a storyline anywhere, unless she ends up on the same team as all of her current Nu-Nuku members. And I have faith in her ability to play the game and avoid an original Mana vs. Nuku boot scenario.

      Plus, if she gets put on a tribe with Troy, it could be interesting. Say, he tells her about the idol and they work together to take out a big name. Or, if Troy is the main target, she may just be the reliable narrator in a “Troy idol’s out So-and-So” storyline.

    2. With Sarah it really can go either way. It can begin her fall or redemption. The one thing that can be a sign that she will get a redemption, is that she didn’t receive any really bad content, unless you count “playing as a criminal” as one, and they didn’t show it as just talk, which still could happen. I like Sarah, but she isn’t one of my favourites, so I can get through her being voted out (and cause I don’t have her in any of my Fantasy League teams).

      1. I think you can read Sarah blustering about her ability to catch liars…while being shown to totally be hoodwinked by Troy as bad content.

      2. I think the “playing as a criminal” thing is both weird and shows a misunderstanding of what she needed to correct in her game.

        1. The fact that they’ve shown her say it twice now, really hammering that point home, leads me to believe she will be castigated as a villain later on down the road.

          1. The line will especially make sense once we crown Aubry as the new queen for getting out Sandra. Fuck it, I’m all in on Team Aubry. I’m playing favorites and she won.

          2. I’d like to throw stones, but the Team Michaela HQ is just a little out of range…

          3. I Will embrace the label. At this point it may be crazy to say anyone will get out Sandra. Sandra is amazing and it would suck to see her go in most scenarios. But if Aubry and/or Cirie masterminded her exit, not only would I be okay, I would be fucking ecstatic. Besides Sandra winning, this scenario is the only one that would put a smile on my face.

          4. True, but in those other cases, it’s been beloved entertainers Sandra and Michaela, and we can never get enough of them.

          5. If only we could say that they are playing for the hashtag, but a lot of their catchphrases are too long. Then again #coffeeisforclosers happened, so who knows?

    3. Regarding your Aubry prediction – I think you could be on to something. I’ve noticed in recent seasons instead of having invisible players going out early and prominent players in season long story arcs, they have occasionally presented the story lines in waves. San Juan Del Sur is a good example of this, I think, as well as maybe Cambodia? Certain people get a ton of attention at the beginning only to be taken out fairly early, with others starting out almost invisible and then coming to the forefront later. Granted, winners almost never start out invisible, but they can go through under the radar phases (I’m truly not trying to use Edgic language here, it just keeps coming out lol).
      So while I would pretty much rule out an Andrea or Aubry win (sorry) that doesn’t mean they’re doomed to be complete non-entities for their entire run in the season. Hopefully they will each be part of some sort of story soon.

          1. Andrea is an interesting case. Outside the game has been weird. I’ve been in her studio audience twice this season for her People Now thing and she has joked about her invisibility. She has been on the tribe that never loses and her one notable thing was being called a “little devil” by Troy. I haven’t given up on my preseason winner pick but the whole thing is weird.

          2. Or this could all be some misdirection and Andrea will emerge as the top bet after being the little devil that ousts Troy.

          3. Andrea sent a link out to sign up for a to be in her studio audience for her show. I’ve signed up for almost every week and got to attend two of her shows far. Week 2 with Brian (Guatemala) and Anna (Koah Rong) as her guests and Week 4 with Gervase and Katie (BvW) as her guests. I also have an invite for this week.

            In continuing tradition, here is a pic from the Week 2 show.

          4. I was surprised she was there. She usually doesn’t do things like this. Very friendly though. Unfortunately there is no picture to share.

          5. I dropped the ball on this one. If I get a chance to see her again I’m definitely going to get a picture. Also, I will spread word of the appreciation. And maybe I will also try to fit “it’s a game, bitch” into the conversation.

          6. It all comes from “It’s a game, bitch” really. But don’t be like “this weirdo I talk to on the internet thinks you are the best for little objective reason beyond the fact you are pretty and were sarcastic once”.

          7. I would keep it more vague than that. I don’t want to come off bad weird either. I have a reputation of being imoffensively dull toward Survivor players that I need to uphold.

          8. You would think with the sheer number of times I’ve typed Aubry that my phone would stop autocorrecting.

          9. My phone autocorrects ‘fucking’ to ‘ducking,’ and the only time I actually type out fucking is when i’m really mad, so when it changes it to ducking I just get even madder, which is not helpful.

            But my phone did give up on trying to change Shit to Shot.

      1. I was thinking about that as well. It’s a tough balancing act trying to juggle a lot of characters and stories in a 43 minute intervals. Sometimes players don’t factor in some stories that Survivor wants to tell in the moment. Last season Ken was super prominent until all of a sudden he wasn’t. Hannah was mostly non existent at times early on but was a huge character in the endgame. Both players had long term arcs that had ups and downs in screen time.

        1. I think the Ken and Hannah thing is tied to the fact that Editing didn’t want to show them as clear winner possibilities because they were co-runners ups. However, they had a major problem because Ken had a lot of good things (besides popularity on the Humdrum tribe) going for him in the early days of the games.

          1. Damn, do the casuals need that much handholding? I think having multiple strong possibilities would be interesting.

          2. Are they at least a fan of either of those players? There are both awesome in their own ways.

          3. He wanted Hannah to win last season (as he rightly should have), and I think he liked Aubry. But he genuinely can’t tell them apart.

          4. Hannah was my third favourite that season (only behind Michelle and Adam). She just seems as a really sweet person, an probably would be a blast hang around.

          5. Biggest regret about losing Ciera first, is those eye rolls. Gawd, Ciera, bring us your Sass!

          6. Ken processing those ten people weren’t impressed by him is the best part. I’m not gonna read or listen to anything he has to say, but just knowing it’s happening gives me power.

          7. I only listened to that one part, cause I’m not gonna listen or read anything Ken says.

          8. Because it would have been impossible to edit that season to make it look like Hannah had a shot.

      2. This type of season also throws the screen time division out of whack. The show needs to devote time to certain players (Sandra, Tony, Cirie, Ozzy, Malcolm, Tai, etc.) because they popular and casuals tune into see them. They will get screen time no matter what. They also needed to give Caleb a lot of time for not suing them.

        The lack of available time makes it easy to shove players like Andrea in the background during the early sections of the game, especially since her tribe hasn’t lost and thus they need nothing from her yet.

        1. True! The Ozzy/Cirie storyline especially smacks of this to me. There’s no way the editors don’t give us some content with those two, even if nothing ever comes of it.

  9. Since it is, again, such a crap shoot, I’m picking the person I want to go home… A.K.A. Debbie.

    I think Emma has a good point about Sarah, though, so I think that’s a reasonable possibility.

    I might be able to watch/tweet live tonight, if my 3YO with a broken leg actually sleeps…

  10. It’s that time…it’s the Micronesia Rewatch Thread. Yes, you should have watched all four of the post swap episodes (aka Episodes 5-8). Purple Tally and I have of course come up with some discussion questions, so feel free to answer them or go with your gut and just talk about it.
    1) Did Penner really have this game?
    2) What were your feelings about how Production handled Kathy’s exit?
    3) Which castaway (fan or favorite) really surprised you at this point?
    4) Between the two previous situations and Ami’s TC breakdown, what was the hardest to watch?
    5) How are you feeling about the edits of Parvati and Amanda?
    6) How are you feeling about the season right now?

    1. I think Penner had a legitimate reason to believe he had a legitimate path to the end. We’ll never know which way Natalie and Alexis would’ve broke had it come down to it, which is probably the most frustrating thing of this entire season: the potential swing point of the entire season was undone due to a medevac caused by perhaps the most irresponsible thing the show has ever done.

      I’m not gonna rule out Parvati’s superior social skills winning out. But she didn’t HAVE to due to chance. (I would also never rule out Penner fucking things up due to his personality).

        1. Right. I’m not ruling out editorial disruption either. We just don’t know. And that was so frustrating then, and still is somewhat frustrating now.

          Twice Parvati could’ve gone and changed the entire direction of the season. Twice she didn’t because of unusual circumstances. (And to re-iterate: she might not have anyway).

          1. Yeah, only going to post-swap Airai for either the mandatory check in time or for a medevac/shady exit is not good when your winner is on that tribe and she is not a main feature of the footage

    2. 1. I don’t know how it would have played out if Penner stayed. One thing that is interesting is that tribe never lost an immunity challenge. Maybe Penner is there until the merge and who knows what happens. But if I had to answer the impossible question, I would bet on no.

      3 and 4. Still Tracy but I already answered that so I’ll say Ami. She was my favorite in Vanuatu as a boss type player and to see her go out the way she did was the toughest.

      6. I think these past for episodes while interesting is the lowest point of the season. Things went awry after the worst challenge ever though a perfect comedic moment between Joel and Chet. Some letdown exits as well. Season still is fine but we are about to get to the best part.

      1. Seeing Ami bawling is just devastating and she has said that she would have voted for Ozzy at FTC, and I believe her based on her vote for Twila despite the whole “you reneged on your son’s name” thing in Vanuatu.

        1. I was so in the middle on this. I felt so bad for her, that she basically just wanted to be included, and the second she does it’s too late. But i also have my ruthless strategy side, which says that what Erik told them isn’t wrong. She had been trying to switch the game against Ozzy, it just didn’t work. She was both playing against and trying to play with her alliance. I felt bad for her and the terrible feeling of being and outcast, but they don’t call Survivor a ‘social experiment’ for nothing. You have to take it with a grain of salt (says a guy who has and probably will never actually play it…)

          1. My feelings on Ami this season are really mixed as well. Her gameplay just comes across as really half-hearted to me, so it’s hard for me to root for her that hard. I more just feel really bad for her and wish that they could have waited and brought her back later (like how amazing would she have been in Cambodia???)

          2. If Ami wasn’t brought back here then the show would have never brought a single LGBT woman back as a returnee…

          3. Wow that’s terrible! They need to cast more LGBT women in general – in addition to some of their other diversity issues in casting :/

          4. That’s a mind blowing fact. The LGBT woman representation in Survivor has always been lacking and it’s something the show needs to address.

    3. This is by miles the weakest stretch of Micronesia. The quit and medevac, plus the whole Chet thing turn the entire season. If Chet was willing to play, Ami, Tracey, Erik, and Chet take over the favourites. Combined with, as mentioned, the Penner medevac and this whole season changes due to injury not gameplay. it may have happened anyway, but I find it frustrating that it happened this way

        1. I think it’s the infection that’s the problem, which requires more treatment and sterile conditions. Like with Neal in KR.

          1. They did leave it for a long time and the infection was spreading, that can’t be left, it can get in your blood and kill you really quickly.

          2. I really don’t understand why it was left at all. This season feels like they were not really worrying about the dangers to the players nearly enough.

        2. I’m going on the theory that medical didn’t feel the need to pull him from the game. He could have at least hung on one more vote to help his friend/ally Tracey out. Even if its a legit injury, it still adds to the randomness of this season

    4. 2) I think they handled Kathy’s exit fine. It’s basically an evac, which is why they don’t pile on, but they can’t treat it like one because it’s not their place to reveal someone’s mental health issues on national TV.

      1. They won’t reveal them, but I think we’ve seen that they’ll very strongly hint at them.

      2. I agree. It’s such a tricky situation. Part of me wishes there was a way to avoid what happened, but the show cannot be forcing people to take medication, nor could they anticipate her sudden reaction to going off it. Really, it’s just overall unfortunate, but to dwell on it further would have been a mistake.

      3. My big pet peeve with the scene is that she says to the other Airai women “I don’t want to let the tribe down”, so what do they do? They force her to quit in front of the tribe. I am shocked that they didn’t just drag it out until the IC.

        1. The story is that Kathy picked up the machete and was threatening to use it on herself, which is the point where production had to step in.

      4. One thing that struck me is how well Eliza dealt with it. She just hugged her and said “I know” in the kindest voice I think anyone has ever used on Survivor. I think these scenes are so interesting because they begin with them all trying to reason with her and end with them all saying essentially, she’s in a bad way and no one can judge her for going. Universally there is no judgement from that tribe to her quitting.

        1. By coincidence, Parvati was on RHAP the day after Julie quit, so of course, Kathy came up. One thing Parvati says was that Kathy was already completely beaten down by the degree to which the fans made her feel like an outcast. If Parvati felt it, I bet Eliza, who got a similar treatment from Scout and Twila, felt it ten times as much.

      5. I agree. To be honest, as someone who suffers from depression, I didn’t even think it came off as a mental health issue at all. It truly just felt like she was overwhelmed from the start and the elements wore her down. I think other players in other seasons have seemed in far worse mental shape. I was surprised to discover what she was really going through and am pretty impressed she lasted as long as she did!

        1. I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before but the RHAP Micronesia reunion* episode has Kathy going into detail about her mental health problems, going off her medication right before going on the show, and her exit from the game.

          * Calling it a “reunion” is questionable since the only guests Rob could get were Kathy and OgreJoel. In comparison, his Amazon reunion had 5 guests (Rodger even came to Rob’s studio) – his Pearl Island reunion only had 3 guests, but at least they were the biggest personalities of the season (Rupert, Sandra, and Fairplay).

          1. Sorry, yes, I already knew all of that. It’s what I was referring to as well. Maybe my comment wasn’t clear. I was referring to how the edit made it seem as opposed to the reality of the situation.

    5. Penner is great TV, but I just don’t think he’s ever had a win in him. He somehow manages to come off as both unlikable and as a major threat to his fellow players. I imagine his best case scenario is something along the lines of Coach in South Pacific, except without the creepy Jesus stuff. Not gonna lie, that would probably be a pretty good season.

      1. Yeah, i have to agree. My boyfriend didn’t like Penner ever, i was very meh on him, but in this season I kinda got annoyed by him. His argument with Cirie was impressive that he could try to spin it so differently, but Cirie had the better of it, and thus it just looked like Penner was trying to talk his way out of a poor situation. In the end, he didn’t, and i’m not convinced he would have withstood another battle with Cirie down the line.

      2. 100% agree. He’s a fun player and a great character but he could play 10 more times and still end up 6th to 8th every time. The funny thing is that he had his “2 (ok 3) returnees and a bunch of newbies” season and still ended up where a Penner would always end up.

    6. This stretch of episodes represents two of the bigger problems I have with the season: first is the immunity challenge which takes out Penner and hobbles Chet and Ami, since it completely disrupts the last, best chance at a counterstrike against the dominant alliance.

      The second is the dominant alliance itself: it floors me that so many internet people champion a season that is dominated by the most aloof, entitled, cool kids alliance ever. So much of these episodes is dominated by the Hot Couple of Ozzy and Amanda with their partner Cirie sitting off alone smug in the security that they can do whatever they want. They Erik worship him as long as he knows his place. Chet isn’t worth their time. Ami is not allowed in. Parv and James will eventually be back to take her spot.

      They’re the arrogant cool kids club that succeeded. And they succeed because A) there’s a vast experience gap between them and the other tribe, and B) because their most vulnerable moments don’t hurt them due to injuries and quits.

      1. It kinda blows me away how everyone just forgets about Cirie to the point that Ami pleads her case at her boot tribal council to just Ozzy and Amanda. Now, that may be due to the fact that there is no love lost between Ami and Cirie, but Cirie could have flipped this game if she wanted to and if she was approached the right way.

        1. I’m guessing Cirie stonewalled her, and thus it wasn’t good TV. Cirie made her choice, and wasn’t gonna mess it up to help Ami (nor should she have).

      2. You are right but I know I’m jumping ahead a little, but watching Ozzy be taken out by a bunch of girls was completely wonderful.

          1. That stretch is coming up and it’s glorious. (minus another medevac which frankly doesn’t matter).

          2. I disagree about it being the best episode of the season but I love that moment so much.

          3. Don’y worry, a lot of people are wrong in they’re lives, so you’re not the only one.

          4. Ozzy dopily professing his love for Amanda at final Tribal is probably my highlight of the season.

    7. Look everybody here has made legit criticisms of these episodes but let me posit this in their defense:

      “I hit my head”
      “I don’t care”
      “I know”

    8. Another discussion topic: this season aired 10 years ago, and Herbal Essences still has the same design on their shampoo bottles.

      This is sort of a dead set of episodes from Parvati and Amanda. Apart from Amanda catching the shark. That was bad ass. And, obviously, a turn on for Ozzy.

      1. Not the only thing that Amanda does in these set of episodes that was probably was a turn on for Ozzy.

    9. I’m answering before reading the replies so I won’t be swayed and also so that I don’t just glom onto someone else’s ideas. I’m sorry it’s so long, but I just watched 3 of the episodes.
      1. The Penner situation was horrible because he was in such good shape physically and mentally (plus he’s so so entertaining). I’m only answering the question from the 8 episodes we’ve seen and not what eventually happened. He knew he’d have to add people in order to stop the larger alliance for the merge, and I think he had the wits to do it. In addition, he would not have been seen as the same level of threat as either James or Ozzy. I think it’s fair to say he could have made it pretty far, but I’m not sure he could have won.

      2. Since I now know more about Kathy’s exit, I feel biased in saying I think they handled it fine. I mean, it wasn’t their place to push further, and I’m glad they didn’t. In addition, Probst was far kinder with her than he’s been with others who quit. I think the edit of James’ compassion for her also helped her to seem less at fault. That all said, it somewhat enrages me that the two beaches this season are truly so different. Malakal having that good cave and calmer waters when it rains this much is a godsend. Aikai are at a serious disadvantage–though clearly they still kept winning challenges.

      3. When Parvati lays out her future plans to oust James and Ozzy and take 3 other women to the Finals, it truly was stunning the first time I saw this season. It showed her to be truly strategic and planning way ahead. I was super impressed. Also, unlike some, I didn’t find her confessionals mean girl in the least…yet.

      If they had been able to blindside Ozzy, when Tracy was fighting for her life that would have been amazing. Tracy really deserves a lot of credit for her moxie.

      4. By far the hardest thing to watch for me this season was that freakin’ ridiculous challenge (also sometimes,yes, hilarious) when Penner was injured and Chet dragged about. The whole season, thus far, has had a lot of dangerous challenges, and I’m surprised at how much more so they feel than recent seasons.

      5. I already discussed Parvati (#3) so with Amanda, it’s clear she’s also getting a positive edit, though she’s had far less screen time. In addition, she shows tenacity in challenges and her handling of Ozzy (and willingness to get rid of him when the time is right) makes her seem sharper than she may later be.

      6. At this point, the amount of injuries, Kathy’s breakdown, Chet’s edit, and the never ending rain, beach issues, oh and the rat eating and didn’t someone say they were without water for 3 days (this doesn’t seem to be allowed anymore, right?) makes for an uncomfortable watch. Though my love for Cirie grows and grows.

      1. Regarding number 2.

        This season was played in Palau, the same beaches which were used in season 10. What’s surprising is that the losing tribe is the same beach as Korror, and they were dominating that season, and they didn’t really complained how bad the beach was! This season probably the problem is the weather, cause I don’t think that there was any, or at least very little rain, but it’s unbelivable how the roles changed this season.

        1. Wow, thank you so much! I had no clue it’d been used before. Also season 4-11 aren’t on Amazon so there are some I’ve never seen. Still that’s really interesting. Did they have scary challenges that season as well?
          I wondered if that had something to do with the terrain.

          1. While there wasn’t any that caused a medevac as with the challenge you talked about, the challanges were pretty hard, or at least that’s how I remember them to be (it was probably for me the most fun season to watch in terms of challenges along with Pearl Islands and China). And this season there is one particular challenge which originates from Palau, and is the second immunity challenge so you’ll soon see it which is at the same time probably my favourite challenge and the SCARIEST one. If you saw Caramoan, it was also there but I’m not gonna say anything more. And the challenges were MUCH harder back then, this season is probably the last season with these types of challenges (Africa is another which I remember also had some pretty hard ones).

          2. It’s good to know I’m not just making it up in my head! I’m actually glad the challenges aren’t as crazy and dangerous as they were, but yipes, it makes for intense viewing. No worries, btw, my memory is so bad that even though I already saw this season, I can’t remember half of it (let alone Caramoan). 😂

    10. As if I haven’t written too much already, I also wanted to note that watching Micronesia has really made me aware of how little time we are getting with the tribes this current season. Stuff back at the beaches and with all the players involved happens on the regular, and Game Changers feels packed to the gills, rushed, and constantly leaves me wanting more time with people.

      Why has this changed so much?

        1. Yeah, i think the tribe swamp will help this, and the post-merge will definitely give everyone a ton more breathing time.

  11. If only it was FFGCLAHSDT….
    Debbie’s on my Pick 4 so she’s making final 4 if not final 3

  12. A lot of focus still on Debbie after last week’s meltdown. That’s fair, it was a big talking point from last week’s episode. Debbie is always going to be one of my favourites on this season, and I was laughing at her last week after her claims that Hali took forever getting across the balance beam (presumably during the reward challenge). But this week I have seen a lot of people suggesting that the meltdown scene took place after the immunity challenge, not the reward challenge, and now I feel like that’s probably a lot more likely.

    I personally believe that after Debbie screwed up the reward challenge, they got back to camp and nothing much really happened but Debbie of course doesn’t admit it was her fault but no one explodes/points fingers. THEN they get to the Immunity Challenge, and Debbie wants to redeem herself/prove that she actually is amazing at balancing etc etc. And naturally Brad smartly says no due to what happened earlier and because immunity is at stake. Probably the first time he has told Debbie she can’t do what she wants to do in a challenge. Debbie proceeds to angrily gloat that she’s amazing during this challenge and when they get back to camp Debbie explodes because Brad said no to letting her do the balancing in the immunity challenge. Hali does the balance beam section for the second challenge in a row and hence, Debbie’s references of “Hali took ages on the balance beam, I was way quicker” make a lot more sense, because I presume Debbie still had to get over the beam during that challenge just without carrying the bean bag things. Or she didn’t have to do it but did it off screen just because she had a point to prove. And we see Hali fall off at least once during that challenge, I believe. Even if it was only once, that’s probably all Debbie would use to try and prove her point. Hali actually may have taken a while, too, of course It’s impossible to know how long she really took though from the small edit we saw of the second challenge. Probably unlikely, but possible.

    Also I have only seen Brad secret/extra confessional from the last episode and it happens after the reward challenge and he talks about Debbie failing incredibly but doesn’t mention anything about her exploding in anger.

    I have not seen any of the other secret confessionals, nor have I rewatched the episode, so I haven’t really looked for anything to counter this theory yet but I’m sure it could be out there and somebody may have mentioned it already. And I am not defending her outburst – it still makes her look pretty unstable/illogical but it would make a lot more sense if it happened after the Immunity challenge. She goes into super angry defensive mode feeling that Hali is above her on the totem pole now because Brad wanted her to do that section of the challenge and not Debbie. Also, at this stage Debbie would know 100% she is not going to tribal council so she’s not completely blowing up her game as she’ll still have at least another 2-3 days before the next boot to calm down etc. etc. Less is at risk and she might feel like she has to do this as she truly think she’s now at the bottom.

    ANYWAY, interested to hear other thoughts on this, and if that is what happened do you think it’s fair that the editors have done this? I’m OK with confessionals aired/spliced up out of place because I’m sure that just happens all the time and can’t be stopped, but if the editors changed the timeline of an actual event that took place in the game, I don’t know. I’m not sure how I feel about that. Especially if they added the flashback part as a way to make Debbie look like even more of a fool so that everyone at home absolutely 100% despises her and so they can make a much better episode for television. They need more villains. If they added the flashback of “I’m great at balancing” at the reward challenge then cut to footage of Debbie exploding which didn’t even happen then… I don’t know, that seems REALLY unfair on Debbie to me.

    1. Mainly just rehashing a lot of things from reddit but not sure if anyone from here saw them.

      Here is a scene of Mana after the immunity challenge (immunity idol sitting in the tree)

      And a scene of Debbie at Mana, APPARENTLY straight after the reward challenge where she explodes (looks like the immunity idol top left of the image).

    2. I think this did end up getting discussed elsewhere, but I’m fine with the show moving scenes around in order to build a more coherent narrative. Strategy discussions will often occur before a tribe even goes to the immunity challenge, but it’s not wrong for the show to position those as if they were happening before tribal council.

      Yes, the editing here was a little unfair to Debbie; even Probst said he wasn’t really a fan of the flashback. But I think the narrative was that Debbie blew up in a way that made the others on her tribe feel uncomfortable, and they thought she was acting irrationally. Regardless of how you sequence the events, that’s still the story of what’s going on at Mana.

      1. Yes but the strategy discussions that are sequenced out of place don’t really have the same negative impact as something like this does.

        Sure, that is the story of what’s going on, but the ordering in this instance wasn’t done just to show that she makes others on her tribe uncomfortable – it has been done to make a better episode/ramp up the entertainment factor by absolutely humiliating Debbie and making her look like she has mental health issues in front of the whole nation. I don’t agree that the primary reason they did it was to provide insight into Mana camp life.

        That scene occurring on TV after reward challenge results in the audience being repulsed by her/calling her delusional, mentally ill etc. because it makes her look like she has no grounds for her argument at all and has completely twisted events. For instance, “Brad is a dictator” and “I was much faster than Hali” and “I was 100% loyal to you” in this instance don’t make any sense to the viewing audience because there are no grounds so viewers react accordingly – Debbie is actually mentally ill – she’s making this up. It also leaves the audience to make their own conclusion while watching the scene, as it is impossible to explain her outburst. When I was watching my mum said out loud – “she’s just a bitter old woman because the other girl is younger and prettier than her”. When watching at the time I agreed. So that interpretation also comes out.

        If it occurred after the immunity challenge, Debbie looks like an immature/angry fool that’s overreacted, but at least we’d be able to see her point of reasoning (however illogical it may have been). Statements like “Brad is a dictator” and “I was faster than Hali” actually make a lot more sense if it occurred after the reward challenge. We saw Brad tell her no and she may have actually been faster across the beam/Hali may have actually been quite slow. Her outburst still looks terrible, and I am not defending it, but we can see that’ its just an ultra-defensive, immature way to deal with being shafted out for Hali – someone who wasn’t originally in their alliance. It’s clearly the first time Brad has said no to her, and she sees it as a betrayal. it’s stupid of her to think this way but at least her explosion has context. Also if it was shown in this sequence I feel like we’d lose a lot of the bitter old woman interpretation as we’d have a clearer understanding.

        I’m not sure, maybe it’s just because I like Debbie, but if I were that contestant then watched that edited out of place I’d be fuming because, I mean, public perception in this case would hold a lot of value to me. Also, I think they have further exploited that situation by adding the flashback to amplify the entertainment/audience reaction. I mean, if that timeline is already false, them adding that at Debbie’s expense is not cool.

        1. I understand a lot of your points, and i’m sure if I liked Debbie I might be a bit more passionate about defending her. I know, for me, i didn’t think she was ‘mentally ill’ until she did her “You broke my heart” yell at Brad, turn laughing, clutching face action. Before, I just assumed she was trying to turn the situation so it didn’t seem like her fault they lost the challenge.

          At the foundation though, I understand that the show is trying to push a narrative, and the drama Debbie created is a huge draw for reality TV shows. So, while I hope this isn’t a ‘minor’ incident totally turned on its head to push a narrative, I understand a bit of creative editing. They obviously had this incredible footage of unhinged Debbie, so I see the temptation to do some minor shifts for a maximum reward in reality TV drama and intrigue.

          I guess my point is, i’m not sure that a different edit of this would necessarily change my reaction to it. I would probably feel very off-put by Debbie regardless of whether she had a justification or not. The difference would be, if I knew she had a justification of some sort, I would probably be convinced she’s not very good at survivor. So, at the end of the day, for me personally, the edit is either going to hint that Debbie is mentally unstable or bad at Survivor. Neither is a great narrative, but I don’t feel there is a ‘good’ narrative for Debbie here.

          1. Ok, yeah, that “you broke my heart” and laughter doesn’t look good in any situation. And I use “mentally ill” because that’s what a lot of people on reddit were saying all week.

            I do agree that there isn’t a good narrative here – no way. But I personally think one is much worse, obviously you can see that from what I’ve already written. I see what you’re saying, that you’d get the same/a similar ultra negative reaction from either situation, but I’m mainly just trying to point out that I think one is much worse than the other – I’m not saying a proper timeline of events would be a good edit for her.

            I do think a lot of it comes down to, I’m a fan and this is at her expense so I’m not happy VS. It’s Debbie and she’s terrible anyway so I don’t really care. Which is totally reasonable, she’s done a lot before this to be seen as unlikeable.

          2. I won’t fault you for sticking up for the person you like. I mean, if a similar edit had happened to Cirie or Aubry or Sandra, this site would be chaos. But, Debbie is not as well liked a character. And i think the editors knew that, so they knew they could spin the narrative a little more to their strengths and not receive much back lash. But, it’s never easy to defend someone not many others care for, so i’ll applaud you for that.

          3. As a Shirin fan, watching a bunch of assholes I didn’t like say that she was annoying in Worlds Apart was not my favorite moment. And some of them were definitely taken out of sequence, and they never presented any later evidence that she eventually got along well with Jenn, Mike, Hali, etc.

            It was shitty for her and for those of us that were fans of her. But it actually happened, and it did convey the perceptions that people had of her at the time. So I get why this bothers you, but Debbie is far from the first person this has happened to.

          4. And I get what you’re saying about “creative editing” to push a narrative, alright, makes for good, TV I am on board. But if I’m going to find out about this creative editing choice a few days after the episode airs then I’m going to immediately question a lot more. I had accepted the timeline of events after last episode, and I was fine with it. But I guess now that I’ve found out what really may have happened and I’m not happy. I Guess ignorance is bliss? They were sloppy here and for me the episode loses value in hindsight with this extra knowledge. They do probably do this sort of thing all the time, but with the magic of usually seamless editing I don’t notice and so I can’t be upset or annoyed.

          5. For me, I feel like the editing was out of sequence less to make Debbie look bad and more to fit it into the story without messing up the standard structure of following the team who lost the challenge heading into tribal council. If they had put this in sequence, AND still brought us to Nu-Nuku, the immunity challenge would have had to been put before the halfway point of the episode. Which really disrupts the natural rhythm of an episode.

            The one thing I’ll allow is the proper sequence AT LEAST absolves Debbie of the hypocrisy of both claiming to be great at balancing while also being mad at Brad for making her balance. But since that was the least of my issues, that doesn’t really do much to my impression of her. Especially since it is replaced with “gets angry when her team wins challenges because they didn’t win the way she wanted”.

          6. I both agree and disagree. I think the sequence fit the typical episode structure really well, yes. They couldn’t have all the drama in the back half of the episode and it was a good filler between challenges and they wanted to focus on Nu-Nuku after the immunity challenge. BUT I also think it was pretty essential to them that they put the Debbie meltdown where they put it take make her look as terrible as possible for maximum entertainment value and so they could make that flashback work. Hypothetically, if different events took place on other tribes throughout the episode, I think they’d still put the Debbie meltdown after the reward challenge 10/10 times because it gives them the best TV and the best TV for them is making Debbie look as bad as possible.

            Aha alright, your perception of Debbie wouldn’t have really changed much no matter what sequence, that’s fair. From my perspective it certainly would have though.

          7. If this is all true, I agree with you and don’t like this at all. Yes, she is not the first person this happened to, but I think it makes the show worse either way and this is probably one of the worst examples. Even though the outburst would always be ridiculous, at least the scenario that didn’t make the edit has her reaction being based in reality. Is this even better TV? I don’t think so. Maybe to other reality TV shows it would be, but it’s not what I want from Survivor.

          8. I think a huge difference is that, yes, it has happened before, but in this instance there is actually pretty solid proof that the timeline isn’t chronological. In the past I’ve probably gone, “Oh, that doesn’t seem right” but just moved on and accepted it and forgotten about it because it’s not like I could prove anything.

            Yeah, I’m glad that you also think this edit makes her look a lot worse than if it appeared in the chronologically correct sequence. Still bad, but a lot worse. I don’t think so either, but I’m sure most people sitting at home would say it makes for better TV, which is exactly what they wanted.

          9. Don’t forget where you were posting this stuff; you never have to apologize for pointless ranting here. It’s what we live for.

            That and Black Dynamite’s lists.

          10. Cabspaintedyellow, who is still posting over at the AV Club, said in comments over there that her friend who worked with Debbie at Red Lobster confirmed that what we saw last week is 100% what working with Debbie is like.

        2. I’m not sure placing that blow up after a challenge they won handily would make us feel BETTER about Debbie’s mental health than putting after a challenge that they lost.

          1. This too. like I said in too many words below, I understand the edit wasn’t kind to Debbie, but i’m not sure there is a ‘good’ edit for Debbie in this incident.

          2. Ok, it’s still clearly not an appropriate or completely justified reaction, but at least I can see some line of reasoning – she’s not just completely and utterly delusional which is what I get from the way it was edited because her comments don’t make any sense whatsoever. It’s at least would have been a lot more favourable.

        3. Debbie is far from the first person that this has happened to. I’m sure she is fuming, but the players that have seen the show should have some idea of what they signed up for. It might seem unfair, but they’ve got 43 minutes to tell a story, and probably 65-75% of those minutes are spent at challenges or tribal council. It doesn’t leave a lot of time for character development.

        4. Unfortunately I’m late and there is no time tore-open the discussion ahead of the next episode, but Debbie definitely blamed Hali for losing them Peanut butter and jelly (“I’M PISSED!”), when in reality Mana was in the lead after Hali was done with her leg of the challenge.
          So she at least made it easy for the editors to shuffle content around by being consitently crazy/delusional throughout the 2-day-cycle.
          But there’s more to it than that, and I wish I would have been here for the entire discussion. They didn’t do her any favors with her edit, that’s for sure.

          1. Oh, really, she specifically said “I’M PISSED” in relation to Hali apparently losing peanut butter for them? Interesting. Yeah sounds like that confessional most likely would have occurred after the first challenge then. Yeah, good to know that she was consistently angry throughout the entirety of those few days – makes the edit slightly more forgivable I suppose.

            Ahah, all good – you’re welcome to revisit it later in the week if you wish to!

          2. Ok, after taking another look at the whole scene, I’m with you in that I see no reason to believe that Debbie blew up at any point ahead of the immunity challenge.

            But she must have been building up some frustration between the challenges and managed to trick herself into thinking that Hali was horrible at the reward challenge (which she wasn’t, at least not so bad that Tai&FFSDT couldn’t make up for the time she lost on Ozzy – JT was still falling off the second beam for blue when Debbie started and Cirie just finished digging for green), so that she brought up Hali’s alleged failures from the reward challenge inher post-IC confessional and juxtaposed that with herself doing great on the balance beam (I think she can only mean the RC, as crazy as that is. Or maybe an earlier challenge? Or she did the IC-beam after the fact, like you suggested? — Nope, listened again, she was talking about”zipping across” in the Challenge that had Hali costing them PB&J, which is why it was unacceptable to Debbie that Brad made Hali a balanceperson over her in the IC).

            We also didn’t see Hali fall off in the immunity challenge, she only lost a ball once or twice. To the contrary, they did show her making it across with the bags far more often than Tai, who fell off twice. In light of that and her comments seemingly only focussing on Hali (and the Andrea pre-game stuff), it looks like your mum could be on to something.

            ButI’m now confident that there is only one source-confessional, and that
            was from after the Immunity Challenge, as I think were all the scenes of
            her blowing up at camp. But her whole thing, in the confesh and the
            camp scenes, was that it has been the same old in two challenges in a
            row now: no respect for her from Brad, even though she is that great
            gymnast and Hali sucks.

            So it only makes it more forgivable in that it would be even more ridiculous to claim that she rocked that RC right after she bombed it, and that Brad did (rightfully) ignore her input before the IC, whereas she would have had no reason to complain at all after the RC, from what we’ve seen. One or two days later however, she seemed convinced that the first strategy session went like the second (which still wasn’t as bad as she makes it out to be) and that Hali was horrible in both challenges. Of course, the motivation for her whole ouburst only makes sense if she had absolutely convinced herself that Hali was the problem in the RC, where she was a hero in her own mind.

            What I also noticed is that the two screen shots with the Immunity Idol in the tree are from different days, judging from the clothes. All the blow-up scenes are consistent with the clothing in the second screenshot, whereas the scene at camp before Tai goes on a searchis probably another day.

            It’s also amazing how much that diving helmet idol jumps out at you when you know it’s there. It’s on screen for quite a while. They really messed up with that, which was also the redditor’s original point. Like, I-can’t-believe-I-missed-it
            obvious, but that is the magic of Debbie.

            She said “I’m PISSED” in relation to Hali losing them the PB&J, but she seemed to mean that she’s pissed that Brad rather would field Hali than her for the balance beam (IC), not about the lost peanut butter.

            Meaning she probably wasn’t screaming at everyone for two days straight,
            but was starting to do so only after the IC, when the only confessional of her that was used during the episode was filmed. She still did make it easy for the editors by repeatedly referring to events that must have happened days ago in her tirades both at the beach with her tribe and in interview.
            And all of that still only makes sense if she sincerly believes that she was rocking that reward challenge (as she unmistakeably told us), which she actually was very bad at.

          3. Wow, well done for going back through that and working everything out – I was meaning to do that at some stage but hard to fit time in.

            I wasn’t sure about all of the points I made (i.e. Hali falling off the beam at the IC because I was trying to remember but wasn’t 100% certain as I hadn’t rewatched). Ahh right it’s all come together now. Funny that she DID in fact (falsely) call out Hali for losing the reward challenge – I was sort of hoping that maybe the edit made it look that way but she was talking about Hali on the beam in the IC. WELL that does indeed make Debbie look really bad then. If everything you are saying is correct then it does make her look a bit delusional… or if not delusional at least highly immature by knowingly lying/denying because she can’t deal with not being good at something/because she thinks Hali is taking her place in the alliance. Not a good look at all.

            I feel that I really need to rewatch it again so I can see what she says about Hali screwing the RC for them and place everything you’ve already said together for myself. For the record, I 100% believe you, just out of sheer curiosity/satisfaction I’d like to rewatch it.

            So yeah, ok got it – edit is out of place – makes her look slightly worse/slightly angrier, but she’s still adamant that Hali tanked the reward challenge and she was amazing – I guess that’s the main thing I wanted to know – because I guess I was choosing to believe Debbie may have been angry at Hali for being poor at the second challenge and the edit just made it look like she was talking about the RC.

            Nice catch on the clothes – I did not notice that at all. And I will rewatch it eventually and keep an eye out for that idol sitting in the tree! Am surprised no one seemed to notice at the time.

            ALSO as someone said in the comments post-episode – and I’m not sure if it was sarcasm – but they probably did amp up Debbie’s craziness/delusion last week because she’s going to calm down and so golden boy Cochran can get all the credit. I hope we do not see another flashback, but if Debbie does calm down I wouldn’t put it past them if Debbie states “I need to be calm” and they cut to Cochran saying “sometimes you just have to go with what people say” or whatever he spouted about needing to be level headed. That is probably unlikely but I sincerely think Debbie is going to mention Cochran in like every confessional from here on out. Can’t wait.

          4. Even after going back and looking for all the Debbie-related stuff, it was still hard to make many definite statements, as you may have noticed, and many things remain subject to interpretation, so I can only recommend you go back and take another look for yourself, when you find the time to do so.

            Watching it two to three times still left me unsure about some stuff, and I can’t even begin to remember everything I thought had happened and what I questioned after watching the episode initially. (And for a Debbie-fan, there was a lot of rewarding stuff in there, like that whole second strategy discussion, as is the case for her tirades as well as being all smarty-pants in in her confessionals and extra scenes, where she even gets to show a modicum of self-awareness)

            For example, it’s still possible that Hali’s part took a long time in absolute terms in the RC, maybe even longer than it took Debbie (not) to get across (although Debbie got to balance with a different prop, one that Andrea and Aubry didn’t seem to have any problems to handle at all).
            What the edit tells us with certainty, is that Hali was doing well in comparison to the other tribes (better than JT and seemingly only a little worse than Ozzy*), whereas Debbie clearly didn’t. Other than that, we can only go by what the edit tries to tell us, which isn’t as reliable when it also makes sure to bury her in the same episode. But there is also nothing that would support Debbies version of what happened in the Reward Challenge.

            *there were also many of the extra confessionals of Tavua members centering around the RC and making mention of Cirie taking ages/10 minutes to dig up the handle, which introduces more uncertainty and room for interpretation if true, but I took that more as a stark exaggeration, like she took 2-3 minutes compared to Michaela’s 20 seconds.

            It’s also entirely possible that we didn’t get to see some of camp life incidents that would support Debbie’s perceived slights, like being cast aside in the tribe hierarchy in favor of Hali.

            In the episode it seems as if Debbie (should she indeed be right that there was this vibe of changed dynamics in their tribe) is not recognizing the strategic advantages of making Hali feel safe and included. I think when I first watched it I thought: “Think Debbie, that’s how they should make Hali feel!”

            But now, one episode later, it seems like this stance contradicted by Brad’s secret confessional, who is now at least wondering if he can consider Hali as his #2. Was that dynamic already in motion when Debbie blew up, or is it a result of that?

            It’s really hard to even make a guess because she seems (and is described by Cochran as) pretty smart in extra scenes and seems to have some sense for the game, but I also think it’s entirely in character for her to crash and burn as a result of unforced errors like misinterpreting her standing in the tribe, in one direction or another.

            If that Cochran flash back indeed happens (I also saw/heard that – wasn’t that even in the podcast??), wouldn’t that be just more proof that Debbie warps screen-time and space as we know it, securing her place in the show’s history as the most game-changing Game Changer?
            But even with that added benefit, it still would be the worst to see the show taking even more screen time and credit from other players and gift it to Cochran (who, btw, wore a classic Probst shirt for his cameo – *shudders at thought of Cochran as Probst successsor*) for no good reason at all.

          5. Fair enough! I will definitely go back myself and watch it then. I think I might wait until the whole season airs then might potential rewatch certain episodes or certain moments. I should really right a list of things I want to focus on in the rewatch, actually. I am way behind on all the extra scenes too! I keep forgetting.

            Glad there is some good Debbie stuff in there too. The edit sounds so complex it sounds like it did your head in a bit trying to decipher it all. Aha. Once again though, commendable effort. Ok well your breakdown of what definitely happened and what didn’t is very helpful regarding Hali and Debbie. Debbie basically still doesn’t come off well and there is nothing to suggest Hali did a poor job in either of the challenges when compared to everyone else competing.

            Hmm yeah, in those secret scene examples re: Cirie I’m sure they’re probably just exaggerations to get their point across. I unfortunately didn’t see them. I am going to catch up on the last two weeks of secret scenes this week.

            Hmm yes good point re: Brad – from what we’ve seen it’s impossible to tell if he potentially changed his mind about Debbie as a result of her explosion or before then. Also It is quite funny and interesting that we wouldn’t typically look this far into the edit if we we didn’t know it was out of order. I bet all of this stuff regularly happens.

            Ahah I don’t recall if it was mentioned in the podcast. I don’t remember it but I was doing something else at the time of listening. Debbie is such a conundrum. Over the top negative edit followed by over the top positive and this week another really positive edit (not sure how to classify it). Thankfully we only got one Cochran mention this week and it was the week immediately following his guest appearance so hopefully we’re in the clear. Aha, thankfully I don’t think Cochran as host will ever happen!

    1. It didn’t work last time…

      I think the two of them actually playing together has the best hope of doing that. Also I want only good things for Cirie in spite of what she said.

  13. I just want my fav to stay
    My fav are Sandra, Hali, Cirie and jeff

    I have the worst luck so i guess one of them will be fucked over by the tribe shuffle

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