Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 12 Liveblog: “Not Going to Roll Over and Die”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the twelfth episode of Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers!

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Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
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1,263 thoughts on “Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 12 Liveblog: “Not Going to Roll Over and Die”

  1. Who would have guessed that Ryan could grow a better beard than Devon.

    Honestly, he should probably keep the beard.

    1. When he was making that growly, pained face during the immunity challenge, he reminded me of David Tennant. Which kinda disturbs me….

        1. I’m gonna hope that was an autocorrect, because if you didn’t know it was Barty Crouch Jr you’d have to turn in your Harry Potter card.

          1. It in fact was! My autocorrect has actually been behaving very strangely, so thats probably one of the less egregious ones.

        2. I hate the depiction of Barty Crouch because they kept making him do that stupid lizard tongue thing, essentially because they couldn’t trust the audience to believe the reveal.

          In general I did NOT like the GoF movie at ALL, until the end. They nailed the end.

  2. So “Chrissy and Ryan are super angry about Ben’s betrayal” escalated quicker than expected.

  3. Another reward challenge before the title sequence. And with the family visit, it’ll be a long one before the break…

    1. Ashley betrayed JP, something he will not forgive until he forgets it five minutes after it happened.

  4. Everyone say hello to the first graduating class of the Russell Hantz school of jury management.

  5. “If I get a chance to get back at Ben, I’m taking it” … that’s going into the back pocket as FTC foreshadowing

          1. If we’re all reading the tea leaves right on that, that is 100% what that statement felt like it could be setting up. Especially since consensus has coalesced around Chrissy as FTC loser

  6. I’m really shocked Ryan didn’t say “my dad, because, in case you guys don’t know, I’ve never had a girlfriend.”

  7. I don’t like this challenge, but I do like how it gets the loved ones involved without having them be challenge liabilities

    1. It pleases me, in that it’s as boring for people who like challenges as regular challenges are for me.

    2. But then we don’t get unintentionally hilarious scenes of Cochran and his mother walking through the challenge chatting with each other.

        1. I think we are all united in hating this. can’t wait to see how Reddit spins this as greatest challenge ever!

    1. I can’t wait for the reunion so we can make fun of the Make-a-Wish kid who came up with this one.

        1. Fair enough. I was mostly picking on how hard they worked to be positive that they made his final production into a damn near death trap.

    2. I just don’t even understand it

      Like, how did a bunch of people with Salaries decide this is it?

          1. When Jeff initially described it I thought it was going to test your ability to read the mind of your loved one and deliberately choose the same rock. But no, it was even stupider than that.

          2. When Ryan was given his bag he held it up towards his father, making me think he was hinting to him the color he was going to choose.

    3. Some of us remember the Blair Witch-edited “I’m going to tell you a story, then go to the huts to answer questions” from Borneo.

    4. They also once pick 1, 2, or 3 flags from 21 Challenge that can be instantly won by the team that goes first.

  8. Everything that Chrissy is mad at Ben for is what she did in picking who gets the loved ones reward. You couldn’t even hem and haw for two seconds?

  9. I am still mad that no one ever pulls a Penner and goes in for a last hug. Like, what is production going to do?

    1. Penner’s knowledge of the TV industry and what it meant he could get away with is kind of unique, and part of what makes Penner special.

      1. One of my favorite stories ever is him threatening to sing Beatles songs (possibly some other copyrighted music) during Dana’s med evac.

  10. So like, did this season get filmed during a hurricane or a stormy season? Like, maybe they had a real challenge and it got blown away or destroyed? Or the boat with the schematics for any kind of challenge sunk, but the boat with marbles didn’t? Or they were sponsored by marbles? WERE THEY SPONSORED BY MARBLES?

    1. It’s like, except, instead of something useful, you get small glass balls for a game kids haven’t played in 60 years. Also, we’re only showing you the boring marbles.

  11. How many different, better-but-still-terrible variations of this challenge, using the same supplies, can we dream up?

    I’ll start: both people choose marbles simultaneously, then reveal. At least that would lead to excellent attempts at telegraphing choices through eyebrow-wiggling, reward families that spend too much time playing rock-paper-scissors, etc.

      1. You mean Crossfire? I’d be stoked if Jeff came out and was like, “today’s challenge is we found a bunch of old Crossfire boards at Goodwill, so you’re playing Crossfire. Deal.”

    1. Newlyweds game, using the marbles as the answers to yes/no questions about your relationship to your loved one or whatever. Have a hard no talking rule.

      1. This is not terrible at all! It would also seed the conversations later AND give the winner pretexts to use when picking people.

        1. No, he straight up gave it to Randy. But its more that its just about spiting someone you don’t like than having any real strategic plan

          1. Ben’s reasoning though is that they’ll look for it and then stop looking for the real idol. If someone gave me an idol, I’d be very wary of it being a fake idol.

        2. No he gave it to Randy so that he could implement his strategy of everyone piling the votes on him, and then they all laughed at Randy and he had to apologize at FTC and only got Randy’s vote because Suzy gave Sugar a cookie.

          Because fuck Gabon.

    1. How is this trying something out? This is literally just the idol hiding format from the Cambodia pre-merge, except Lauren had the luxury of telling people.

      1. I think it’s different because you had cover in a pre-merge obstacle course. You could get caught, but it wasn’t entirely out in the open. This one will be clearly in front of everyone else.

        1. But on the other hand, she has multiple people who know she’s going for an idol to help her out.

        2. So nvm. With no sit out bench, that was pretty easy for Lauren. Which just goes to show that making it a whole thing was *very* stupid.

  12. And I do not like this “you have half of an idol to go. Get it at the IC.” But it will be interesting to see how Lauren gets the other half. Fall off the platform in “exhaustion” and land on top of the shell?

    1. I’d already forgotten it happened. Normally we get a big portion for that. My guess is its because those 4 don’t really matter anymore

  13. The person who came up with “what if we made them spend the entire challenge listening to annoying sounds that they can’t stop?” deserves a raise.

  14. I thought they’d have to walk over to the bench. It helps that Lauren’s on the end and is just sitting right where she needs to be.

      1. Right but I thought she’d have to walk over to the bench, giving her only seconds to pick it up. But she had 15 minutes to get it.

        1. Even if she wasn’t on the end, she had ~15 minutes sitting there. Eventually peoples’ attention would wander, and she could just pretend she was picking up random stuff. Without a sit-out bench, getting this shell was easy (unless you were one of the final two players still in the challenge).

      1. I haven’t figured out who from the 4 is going. It feels like Ben, but I also feel like Ben makes FTC. I kind of want it to be Lauren to watch Reddit burn

        1. Agreed. Particularly given that Ben referred to ‘his shells’ when making the fake idol, as if they all had been collecting shells, which I assume most players do when bored on a beach for 39 days. It should have somehow stuck out of been further away from her platform, that way there was ANY risk involved…

        2. It should have been further away so she’d at least have to think about how to go out and get it without looking suspicious. The whole point of an idol hidden at a challenge is to make it RISKY to collect said idol.

    1. Remember that time he played his idol for no good reason and that meant he was back on top? I’m not sure Mike quite understands how control works

  15. i appreciate how delusional Mike is. One break goes his way, and he’s immediately “BACK ON TOP, BABY!”

    1. To be fair he seemed to be the kingmaker this episode with remaining herslers openly vying for his vote. I am all for crazy plays but people this season constantly keep blowing their position in the game. Makes no sense.

  16. Dr. Mike goes from being on the bottom to being on top back to the bottom on top again – his Survivor season is a roller coaster.

      1. That’s true, but I think we’d get a Lauren confessional telling us that’s what she did.

    1. Let him know he’s safe because they won’t target him? Which he already knew was the case. So… OK, not that. Maybe letting him know she trusts him enough to… what? Return it to her later? Maybe she thinks it’ll take the heat off of her? But she could always just play it and accomplish that *and* be safe. Yeah, I got nothing.

  17. Mike, you don’t get to accuse other people of making one of the stupidest moves in Survivor history. You just don’t.

      1. I actually don’t think it was – like I can SEE what Lauren was going for. Hey Mike, I’m giving you the half the idol so you know that I do not have an idol and thus am not a threat in this game compared to Ben. Please vote for him instead.

        And the thing is – it would have worked if not for the Ben idol no one knew about. But it backfired badly.

        I think it comes down to – if these players conceive that it’s a possibility that Ben has an idol then everyone plays this a bit differently.

      1. It was not intentional. I think Dr. Mike actually said that he was going to come up with another “Plan B”.

  18. Matt, it may be just me, but trying to follow the liveblog through the slideshow and its lagging about 10 mins behind on updating. The main liveblog page is fine

      1. No worries. Its the first time its ever happened to me but just wanted to make y’all aware in case its a bigger problem

        1. When I did these I always found the slideshow format to be lagging. Use the actual Storify feed for the fastest results. (Click the Story logo under the header.)

  19. Did Lauren give Dr. Mike the actual idol shell? She should have given him some shell she found on the beach.

  20. All I want for Christmas is for Lauren to have given Mike a fake shell and then to play the idol at tribal like “Surprise motherfucker!”

  21. Living for the fact that they cut away from JP as the jury came in, then cut to Joe as they were sitting. We never say his face

  22. What the fuck is going on?

    And don’t read that as an exclamation. I’m very exasperated.

          1. Can we just retroactively disqualify everyone here and give the win to Jessica or Ali; they seemed to have some baseline competence.

  23. You know how pre-season Jeff was saying the last couple of episodes were crazy, and we were all like “uh-huh, sure Jeff, fool me once and all?”

    Was Jeff… right for once?

    1. I know the gameplay has been less than stellar, but I am kind of enjoying the stupidity. It just hit a certain point where like it’s so bad, it’s amazing.

    1. I’ve always been a “Boston Rob just made his competition look like fools” apologist, but I’m definitely rethinking that perspective. If you had dropped Cirie into this group she would have won the game twice.

    1. Even if it were it almost certainly isn’t once the person owning it is voted out since idols lose their powers when the holder is voted out even if it’s left behind.

      1. Yeah, that was a flippant comment when Lauren was offering to give it to whoever she was offering to give it to (Ryan?), based on the GC debacle. Its definitely out of the game now

  24. Lauren’s done. Ben’s playing his idol. I hate this moving around at TC stuff. These people are stupid.

  25. Lauren actually didn’t play her advantage or her idol. So Lesson #1 is don’t tell anyone about your idols or advantages. Lesson #2 is if you got the ammo, shoot your shot.

    1. I enjoy how the first comment of this thread was you talking about how bad of a week you’ve been having and how you were hoping Survivor would cheer you up. Then not only is the episode a dumpster fire, but your cable goes out? What kind of genie did you piss off, jersey?

    2. I at first read that as “because my cabbie just fricking died” and was all “holy shit this got dark!” And also, “why were you watching and commenting in a cab?”

  26. Remember that time Lauren found an idol like 5 hours before this TC and then gave it away when it could have saved her? Remember how that’s not going to stop r/survivor from calling her a r.obbed g.oddess for the rest of time?

        1. You know what hope is
          Hope is a bastard
          Hope is a liar, a cheat, and a thief
          If you see hope… kick its backside
          Got no place in days like these

    1. I was rooting for her as well but this was just downright terrible play. Up there with Erik’s blunders and worse than any of JT’s. Just bizarre to the extreme, it got Mike to her side but she could have just given him any good old shell and he would have bought it.

  27. Everyone on the internet this past week:

    “It’s good they got rid of Joe! He’s unpredictable and they have their alliance locked up!”

    1. They did have to get rid of Joe, tho. He’s useful to someone, but you can’t guarantee that someone is you.

          1. Chrissy vote for Ben? Everyone voted for Ben. I’m not sure what point you think you’re winning here.

          2. I don’t even know anymore. Trying to make logical justifications for what these dunderheads should do makes everyone sound like an idiot.

    2. Voting Joe is probably correct based on the info they had at the time…but man did it not work out. At least letting the double agent thing play out burned some of Ben’s bridges, that might help Devon or Ashley in a FTC situation against him.

  28. At this point, I don’t think I’ll be happy with any winner. I won’t be mad with Devon, but I definitely won’t be happy.

      1. He’s terrible at Survivor and seeing him fall ass backwards into a win would basically make this Gabon 2.0.

        1. Oh yes, Gabon is the perfect comparison point for this season. I can already see it being top 5 or even fav season for a lot of folks in survivor community.

    1. I would be fine with Devon and even Ashley. Both will be lower tier ones but they have not done anything big to blow up their game so far.

      1. I will say that if Mike goes on an immunity tear, I suppose that he’d be equal or better than Worlds Apart Mike. But without that, he’s falling ass-backwards into a win.

        1. I would rather anyone else left won that Mike, yes even Ryan. Even though I can see myself playing like him if I was ever to play the game, I can’t stand him being insufferable about his moves when he has not done anything right yet. He would probably take it up 100 notches if he was to win.

  29. Laurens extra vote wouldn’t have mattered, but I can’t believe she didn’t bring it to tribal.

    She’s probably also wishing she hadn’t given that shell to Dr. Mike.

  30. Someone yesterday said that this episode could be us all finding out that they aren’t actually good at Survivor after all. Whoever that is, congrats. You were right!

  31. Especially because Lauren got told they were gunning for her and she still decided to give Mike half of the idol. dumb dumb dumb.

  32. I love the fact that they were able to take down Ryan and Chrissy because those two were hyper arrogant, and then they turn around and are even more arrogant. They’re making Michelle look like a goddamn savant.

  33. Ok, so hopefully this doesn’t get buried in the usual deluge of post-episode comments, but I can’t do the video post this week like I usually do. Andy also cannot (will not?) do it. So is there anyone who’d want to try their hand at it and fill in for this week?

        1. I have a template and how to do it (though if y’all team up, that kind of teamwork will make the dream work)

      1. Watching the show is as much as I can do right now! Been crazy busy with work. (AKA raising taxes on Disqus commenters.)

          1. I’m upvoting this under protest. I don’t like to think about the inevitable post-NN reality, but the joke was solid.

          2. Good jokes about horrible, painful things which shouldn’t be treated humorously or even discussed is my métier of choice. You’re welcome. Buy and produce one of my scripts.

          3. God, it’s so true. Unfortunate that I wasn’t born in a time where it was more likely for me to be a unique voice/get executed.

            (cf. aforementioned métier)

      2. TBF, when Taako brought it up, I didn’t offer and didn’t actually ask the staff. So they didn’t say no.

        Also… they totally would’ve said no.

    1. I don’t think I could do it. Especially from my phone. It was hard enough writing the most amazing Fan Friction article on this thing.

      1. Look Andy, I fell they this time, but those trombones are on their way, and this podcast is gonna have a genuine, bonafide marching band!

  34. The thing that frustrates me most, maybe, is that if Lauren had kept her idol and kept it a secret and played it, we could’ve ended up in a “no votes count” tribal where no one brought a Plan C.

    1. See, that would be an okay use of a live tribal, them negotiating a plan then and there. I feel like the result would have be Chrissy but who knows

      1. I honestly think they could shout each other into anything in a panicked revote, and I wouldn’t mind seeing it, since we’re stuck with these players anyway.

        1. It would be somewhat entertaining chaos anyways. In AUS Survivor they did a double boot tribal and no talking before the second vote and the people in the majority literally just yelled their votes from the voting booth. It was awesome. I don’t know if that would occur to these people though

    2. I worry Devon would have gone home in that case. Ben, Ashley and Lauren would all have been immune, so he’d have been the only target on that side. It would have come down to which way Ben voted.

      1. If they didn’t cast doofuses like JP, they might actually fill out a cast with good players.

          1. Meh, I don’t find either of those guys hot. I’m actually kind of hard-pressed to find one who covers both bases. Jeremy Collins, I guess, is the closest.

          2. Jay may be my hottest Survivor ever. Jeremy is up there but yeah, its a surprisingly short list. Like they only recently discovered guys can be hot AND good at Survivor. And I think Jay may have been an accident. He was supposed to be hot but not necessarily good

          3. I consider “Willing to do something and does it badly” to be more commendable than “Never does anything ever and therefore doesn’t fuck it up.”

        1. You can throw this whole cast in the goddam toilet. for me, this season is the worst ever. at least Gabon had Randy

      2. I feel like I’ve taken for granted that each season is going to have a clutch of decent players who are able to play the game well. Not so!

      3. If they really are hurting for worthwhile applicants, it explains so much – why they had two all returnee seasons so close together, how dumb everyone is this season, how JP ever got through casting… I’m worried, guys.

        1. It also explains Redmond’s tweet. They’re really ratcheting up their standards for the cast.

        2. Remember that supposedly MvGX had a really hard time casting women, especially WOC, and look what happened there. I guess MvGX was the start of this new age of concerned casting.

    1. It reminded me TOO FUCKING MUCH of the awful F6 tribal in Nicaragua. Where everyone said everything out loud, and no one had any secrets, and still no one did anything.

          1. We also don’t feel the need to pretend a season is good in order to exert our superiority. We maintain our superiority complexes the natural way: through smug and petty comments about other people!

          2. Babes, if you think this is angry and toxic then I’m very happy for how easy your life has been. I hope you never discover what those words really mean.

          3. It’s a real skill to be as right as we all are, even when disagreeing with each other but we manage

          4. I think you’re wildly misinterpreting the replies. I put your “I like r/Survivor better” comment as a featured comment because I think it’s funny when people make fun of us. I’m not sure why you deleted it, but I’m guessing it’s because you thought I was singling you out or mocking you in some way. I assure you I wasn’t.

            I make fun of r/Survivor all the time, both because they actually suck sometimes and because they have some tendencies that are easy to make fun of: their dismissal of large segments of the fandom by calling them “casuals” and thus disregarding their opinions, their hatred of “big moves” that are actually just moves that make sense if you’re trying to win a game (and make for better TV), and their hipster fandom of early boot players that nobody really cares about.

            Our site embraces people with differing opinions, as long as they aren’t dicks about it. We playfully fight with our listeners/commenters all the time about how they overrate San Juan del Sur. Everyone generally understands that it’s just a TV show, and someone else disliking a season doesn’t mean you have to dislike it.

            And yes, a lot of us dislike this season. I haven’t yet found a forum that only engages in positive praise of Survivor, but that’s because I’m not looking for that. I enjoy discussing the show’s greatness and its flaws.

          5. I hope I am. It just seems very hostile from the perspective of an outsider looking in. I’ve never seen /r/Survivor dismiss or hate “big moves”, more just mocking the massive emphasis Probst likes to put on them above all else. I’m sorry for everything that’s been stirred up from my comment. I deleted it because I don’t like making waves like that; it just further fuels my own mental issues. Also if you don’t have a James Miller altar at your home you’re not a real Survivor fan tbh.

          6. I don’t know if you were on r/Survivor during Game Changers, but they were pretty vocal in their hatred of Zeke and his embracing of big moves. They even started a campaign to send Varner videos of support to help him feel better after the episode where he’d publicly outed Zeke.

            Your comment didn’t stir anything up. It was funny. Kemper probably responded too harshly, but Kemper can be a dick sometimes (a dick that I love…gotta be a better way to say that).

            If you’re going to stick around here- and you’re very welcome to do so- just accept that we mock each other constantly, with the understanding that it’s all bullshit because we’re just discussing a show we all enjoy. (That last sentence of yours is a good example of the kind of stuff that tends to go over well here.)

          7. I started posting there shortly after Game Changers, and anything referring to Varner after the season has been overwhelmingly negative (I assume that trying to profit off of it with a book tipped the scales and removed any and all sympathy). I can’t speak on the Zeke hate because I admittedly haven’t seen him play yet; I’m on Season 20 of my marathon (though I’ve also seen – and enjoyed – 21).

          8. I think the biggest difference is that /r/Survivor prefers to value the contestants as characters rather than as players, though they still analyze gameplay and moves a lot.

    2. Yeap, this cast has to be one of the worst group of survivor players in terms of actual game skill. Devon, legit, is probably the best player out there. Ashely is fine too as in no real black mark against her. I was defending Chrissy some weeks back but she is pretty poor player as well and Ben blew up his game Mike style this episode.

      1. I feel almost like, although Ben absolutely made some terrible choices…that it’s all going to, like, work out for him? Like that he’ll come out of this episode largely unscathed, and he ABSOLUTELY SHOULDN’T AND I’M ALREADY ANGRY ABOUT IT.

        1. Ben is at the bottom now though. Ideally only way he reached end is by wining out or another idol. But you never know with these people, they already hinted in the NTOS that some other plan may crop up.

  35. “But why?” is all I have to say after that. This whole episode was people doing things for no reason. Ugh

  36. Probst: “We like to cast fans!”
    *twelve hours in*
    “Ok maybe not all fans are made equally. SOMEONE PLEASE APPLY!”

          1. Desk, Actually: the sequel to Love, Actually where you mostly just see the cast in the background of scenes where other people are talking.

          2. No, Desk Actually is the sequel to “It’s just a fucking stick”: The journey of a piece of wood through reality television.

    1. “We need fans like Dan Foley and Artis, not recruits like Earl and Parvati.”

      The whole recruit vs. fan thing has always been contrived, and I wouldn’t be shocked if Jeff buys into it, but I’m sure casting doesn’t.

          1. Nope. Probst just pretended he did when he quit during his second season. It was a dick move by Probst but it was Colton so I shrugged it off. That pain was real.

          2. Probst said during BvW when Colton was quitting “So you’re quitting again like last time?” and Colton never corrected him. As far as I’m concerned, Colton quit both times.

            I think Colton admitted later (or maybe just after OW) that it wasn’t his appendix that took him out of the game, just stomach pains. It’s been heavily suggested that Colton saw the writing on the wall and knew that he wouldn’t going to do well, and he used those pains as an excuse to leave the game instead of being voted out.

          3. Uh no. It ended up being a bacterial infection, not appendicitis – which I just found out from a quick Google search. That can still cause acute pain, and did. The doctor called on the scene insisted that he be medically evacuated when his heart rate doubled after being touched by her – and numbskull Probst was there when that occurred.

            This is all quite fresh to me because I rewatched the season recently (don’t ask me why) and that scene stood out because it is a part of my job to work with people who are dealing with a lot of physical pain.

            And there was no “writing on the wall” – Colton at that point was fully in charge of one tribe. He was the only threat to Kim’s dominance that season, and as awful as he was, his departure contributed to the season being so boring (after being so offensive).

            Don’t be a Probst, Horny! Colton was despicable in that season but there’s no need to re-imagine what occurred as something that was so Colton to do. He’s despicable either way.

          4. Sorry, but Probst said during BvW that Colton quit during OW. It has been stated that Colton didn’t have appendicitis and he knew it, and that he used it as an excuse to leave the show under his own terms because he was not in control of the game and wanted to leave on his own terms. Colton may have been in charge of his swap tribe, but they were being decimated by the other tribe – he knew he was not going to be successful after the tribes merged. Sorry, but Colton quit both times – facts are facts.

          5. Uh no. My point is that Probst was lying or mistaken. Rewatch the episode if you need to, but the doctor called on the scene insisted that he be medically evacuated when his heart rate doubled after being touched by her – and numbskull Probst was there when that occurred. Sorry, but Colton only quit once –
            facts are facts.

          6. If Probst was lying or mistaken when he said during BvW that Colton had quit during OW then they never would have aired it – they would have cut that line out. Plus Probst said it to Colton and Colton didn’t deny it – he agreed with Probst.

            Colton was hurting when he was medevac’d but he was faking that it was appendicitis. As has been said since that season (and since BvW), Colton realized that he wasn’t going to have the control of the game that he wanted to, so he was engineering his own departure from the game so he wouldn’t get voted out. If this was his only season, then maybe I’d believe him. But we saw him do a very similar thing in BvW! No one on his tribe was putting up with his shenanigans, and he knew he was going to get voted out, so he quit. Once is a a coincidence – twice is a pattern.

            Sorry, but facts are facts – Colton quit twice.

          7. Uh no. Do you really think that a television show would never air a lie or mistake and then just gloss over it? Because that’s hilarious. So do you also think that they would tell Probst to pause after he lied or made his mistake so they could go and check the tapes? And after realizing he lied or made a mistake, that they would then come back and tell Colton to quit again and Probst to react again – but this time without lying or making a mistake? Because that’s also hilarious. That was a live moment, there’s no going back for a re-do despite Probst’s stupidity.

            And hey, Colton actually did deny it, right after Probst lied or made his mistake, by saying that he ended up being treated for a bacterial infection. The idea that you think that Colton agreed with Probst is, again, hilarious and so easily proven wrong, if you only checked the tape yourself before posting.

            And hey, Colton wasn’t “faking appendicitis” – he was told by Tarzan (incorrectly) that it sounded like he had appendicitis. The doctor called on the scene also thought that’s what it may have been – but whether it was or wasn’t, she had to have his pain checked out. She was mainly concerned that his heart rate doubled after being touched by her (a scene in which numbskull Probst was actually present) and it was her call that Colton be removed. Again, if you only checked the tape before posting, you’d know all this.

            During the episode where the doctor called on the scene insisted that Colton be medically evacuated, Colton had 4 soldiers on his tribe (Jonas, Leif, Tarzan, and new addition Alicia) and appeared to have some sway with Christina. He also had Troyzan on the other tribe. Kim had 4 soldiers (Sabrina, Chelsea, Kat, and new addition Jay). Who knows where Michael was. There’s no way Colton was being voted out anytime soon. The very idea is hilarious.

            Sorry, but facts are facts – Colton only quit once. You should really check the tapes before going on about this. But you’re like a dog with a bone sometimes – even when the bone in question is actually a make believe toy rather than an actual bone – so I expect to be reading a response from you shortly!

          8. The show chooses what to show, they air scenes out of order, they choose the narratives, but they would not have Jeff, the host, executive producer, the show runner, say on the show that a player quit the game in their previous appearance, knowing that is a lie, and keep it in the show. That’s just crazy. When Jeff said that in BvW, that is what Jeff and the show believed.

            Also, Colton never disagreed when Jeff said this. You would think that if Colton had not quit the game in OW that he would have said “Hey Jeff, I didn’t quit last time!” But he didn’t. He agreed with Jeff.

            And if you’re saying that he was emotional at the time and was only thinking about wanting to be with Caleb (since he left his tribe and went over and hugged Caleb), you would have to convince me that Colton loved something/one more than he loved Survivor, and I don’t believe that. He was playing the game when he quit OW and he was playing the game when he quit BvW. Both time he realized he was not going to control the game as he had planned and knew that he would be voted out, and both times he decided to take matters into his own hands and quit so that wouldn’t happen.

            Did I say that Colton was faking his pain in OW? It sounds like you’re saying that I said that, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t. Let me check … yep, I never said that. I said he was faking his appendicitis. Jeff has said that Colton didn’t appendicitis, that he used his other pain to pretend it was his appendix and quit the game.

            Colton’s swap tribe and Kim’s swap tribe did have the same number of players. But Colton’s tribe was, as he said, the misfits. They were losing challenges, and were likely to lost most, if not all, of the challenges before the merge, resulting in either Colton being voted out, or his swap tribe being so down in the numbers at the merge that he would be voted out soon after the merge. So the idea that Colton was not going to be voted out soon, either pre-merge or right after the merge, is ridiculous and hilarious.

            Now, who is more trustworthy about whether a player quit – Jeff, who has been the show for 35 seasons (and while he stretches the truth/lies when promoting the show, is also fiercely protective about the integrity of the show), or Colton, a player who we know is racist, classist, a narcissist, and we definitively saw quit the show once. Plus we have Jeff, someone who was there both times, say on the show that Colton quit both times. This is eyewitness testimony, plus evidence we the viewers have seen themselves.

            Sorry, but facts are facts. Colton quit in BvW, and he used hi stomach pain to fake a more serious medical condition to quit the game because he knew he did not have the control in the game that he wanted and knew he would be voted out, and his ego would not allow that.

            It’s funny that you’re calling me a dog with a bone, when I could easily make the same claim about you. There is actual evidence and expert testimony to back up my claim, but you refuse to accept it. So I just as much expect a response from you shortly too.

          9. Uh no. You clearly haven’t checked the tapes yet because you are making the same incorrect points. And a lot of your points seem to be coming from the idea that since Colton is loathsome (agree) then every negative thing you say about him must be true. *Shrug* Anyway, I’ve made my points, repeatedly, so there’s no need for me to make the same points a 3rd or a 4th time because I’m not here to change incorrect perspectives. But still, facts are facts: Colton only quit once.

          10. Sorry, but Probst said on the show that Colton quit the show twice. If that didn’t happen, the show wouldn’t have aired him saying that – for all of Probst’s faults about exaggerating when promoting the show, he would not lie on the show to a player, and the show would not air it if it wasn’t true. Hard to argue with the host/show-runner definitively stating something on the show and it not being refuted by that person on the show (but you have tried).

            Even if I ignore my personal opinion of Colton’s character, he quit in his other appearance. This is like someone saying “I didn’t kill this person” even know they admitted they did on TV, and we know they killed someone else at a different time. Why should I believe them when I know they did it before?

            This reminds me of a debate I had on RHAP with a regular commenter where I said that Dreamz stole the truck from Yau-Man, and they said that it was a gift and he didn’t steal it. It didn’t matter to them that I explained that the show said more than once that Dreamz stole the truck (I even explained to them the textbook definition of a verbal contract). Jeff said it on the show. Jeff said it many times after that season. Rob has said on the podcast more than once. But this commenter just ignored all of the evidence and was so sure they were right.

          11. Uh no. You clearly haven’t checked the tapes yet because you are making the same incorrect points. Anyway, I’ve made my points, repeatedly, so there’s no need for me to make the same points a 3rd or a 4th time because I’m not here to change incorrect perspectives. But still, facts are facts: Colton only quit once.

            You are also quite wrong about Dreamz and the truck, which is both hilarious and unsurprising. Apparently yet another example of Jeff lying or being mistaken! I’m sure there are numerous examples because the man is a deluded tool. Anyway, not holding up your end of the bargain does not equal stealing. It equals lying. Yau-Man (and everyone else) planned on giving Dreamz the truck, so in many ways it was a gift with conditions. Who puts conditions on a gift? A sneaky, wonderful Top Three character like Yau-Man, of course! He really channeled his inner villain for that bit. I remember reading the outraged reactions from hordes of mainly white people who felt like this was symbolic of what was wrong with inner city black kids, while the people that I knew understood what went on during that deal. Namely, that Yau put conditions on a gift that even Yau himself would probably not have honored. Facts are facts: Dreamz did not steal a truck from Yau-Man

            But by all means, do continue living in your fantasy world. It’s a hilarious world to read about (although a rather depressing one too because oh the humanity – and it is certainly the world we are living in under Dump, so there’s that unpleasant resonance). Since the knee-jerk masses who react blindly and predictably to everything they are told to react to, who buy Probst’s garbage hook line and sinker, and who are basically apologists for Probst (and I guess Rob too?) also all live there… you certainly won’t be lonely there.

          12. It’s funny that you start off by saying that I haven’t checked the tapes, because the only proof that’s necessary is right there on the tape where Jeff says to Colton in BvW that he is quitting for the second time, that he quit during OW, and Colton agrees with him. It’s right there in the show. You can’t argue with that (although you certainly have).

            OMG, you also don’t think that Dreamz stole the truck! Oh, now I don’t feel that bad about this exchange. If you happen to be incorrect about something this basic in Survivor, it’s no wonder that that you also get Colton not quitting twice wrong too. This just changed from a little frustrating to enjoyable.

          13. Uh no. LOL you obviously still haven’t checked the tape! What’s wrong with you? The proof is there Horny, stop parroting things and do the actual research. And I don’t mean the YouTube version (which interestingly cuts out Colton’s pushback to Probst about quitting twice), but the actual show that aired. My God, all the words you could have saved if you just checked it out, because it’s right there during the episode. Same goes for the One World episode when the doctor literally tells Probst she is taking Colton out of the game and Colton literally says he doesn’t want to go.

            Yes of course I know that Dreamz didn’t steal a truck because I don’t truck in carefully constructed delusions of the sort that you and Probst apparently enjoy. I don’t automatically swallow what is being spoonfed to me by editors who want to create a controversial narrative and Probst who wants to create a villain for his audience to root against.

            I’m sorry that this exchange was ever frustrating to you. Although I’m always faintly annoyed by delusional people, they are also often amusing to me in an oh humanity sort of way (which is how I’ve retained my sanity during life under Dump)… so I’ve been enjoying this exchange ever since you first stuck your head into my response to Storm. Perhaps I just watch too much CNN, because at this point your responses illustrate pretty familiar behavior – complete with false narratives, a person who is insisting something is true simply because he says it is and who has a lot of deluded people who agree with him, despite actual evidence to the contrary. People who are consistently wrong are often consistently funny. You are a funny guy!

          14. It’s hilarious that you keep using the phrase “check the tape” (aside: it’s the 21st century, what’s a tape?) when that action actually invalidates your argument. If you had watched the actual season when it aired, you would have seen Jeff say to Colton “You’re quitting, just like you quit last time?” and Colton replied “Yes.” It’s right there in the episode. Please don’t just watch mini-clips online to form your narrative- go and watch the actual season on DVD or Hulu or CBS All Access or something. Your confusion could have been cleared up long ago.

            It’s funny that you think you know more about what happened with Colton on OW than Jeff, who (a) was there, and (b) witnessed all the behind the scenes action that none of us saw. Yes, I’ll take your word over an eyewitness who has much more information, oh my sides are hurting from laughing.

            Ditto for Dreamz stealing a truck in Fiji. Jeff said he stole it. The show says it. Even Rob C, the nicest and least confrontational Survivor podcaster, agrees that Dreamz stole the truck. Again, am I supposed to believe some random guy on the internet, or (a) the host who witnessed it, and (b) a former player who podcasts about the show so much he formed his own podcasting network? No contest.

            Also, I can’t tell if all of your random asides and non sequiturs are you trying to be funny or antagonistic. Sorry to say, it’s not working for either. Keep reaching for that rainbow!

          15. Uh no. Check the tapes, genius. I watched actual episodes when they aired (duh) and a second time through CBS all access. And I don’t just buy what Probst tells me because Probst is biased and his perspective is subjective, like many, and I don’t actively try to be a fool, like few. But hey, you do you, I can’t stop you. Keep drinkin’ that kool aid.

            Sure, I’ve been a wee bit antagonistic because you’ve been an annoying dog with a bone on this topic, as you are whenever you get your grip on such bones, with me and so many others. It can be annoying af. But I take measures by amusing myself because why get truly angry over trifling shit. Gotta stay sane somehow!

            Anyway, facts are facts: Colton only quit once and Dreamz didn’t steal no truck. Check the tapes, double rainbow!

          16. (double post, for fairness sake)

            Please, both of you, stop this now. I’m subscribed to comments so this entire stupid argument keeps getting emailed to me, and I really don’t care which of you is right – you’re both coming off badly. This shit belongs on RHaP.

          17. You’re right, will do. Didn’t really take into consideration that this definitely stupid argument is getting group emailed with every post. Sorry! Embarrassing.

          18. Please, both of you, stop this now. I’m subscribed to comments so this entire stupid argument keeps getting emailed to me, and I really don’t care which of you is right – you’re both coming off badly. This shit belongs on RHaP.

          19. Reya, I’m sorry, I didn’t know you were getting notifications for all of these replies. Your frustration is completely justified. All I can say in my defense is that I don’t like bullies.

            @disqus_LuoWO0onmu:disqus , let’s just agree that one of us is right and we’re never going to convince the other one that they’re wrong. If you still want to continue this, create a new thread and @ me so we don’t bother Reya.

          1. Godwin’s Law states that, as an internet argument continues, the probability that one party in the argument will compare the other to Hitler approaches 1.

          2. I thought it was comparing anything in the discussion to Hitler/The Holocaust, since rational people would obviously avoid that comparison, because nothing could compare.

            Speaking of which, Trump is trying to overturn Godwin’s Law.

          3. That’s the end result of Godwin’s Law, but what I wrote above is the proposition Godwin actually made.

            The original quote: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1.”

          4. I comment on lefty law blogs, which means I comment with people who are old enough to have fond memories of Usenet.

          5. I said I comment on lefty law blogs. That’s not a refutation of the accusation that I’m a nerd, it’s a confirmation.

        1. She was even pretty well liked by her cast and had a good chance of winning. I might even say that she’s more entertaining. Ya know what? Naonka>Dr. Mike in several ways THAT’S WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS SEASON

    1. What about the woman who did slam poetry before her Redemption Island duel?
      I suppose we should clarify what level of bad you’re looking for.

      1. I’m somehow happy and sad that you reminded me of her just now. And I still can’t remember her name. Also there’s no need to tell me.

          1. Giving up her idol to Mike is a good move, especially when she doesn’t bring her advantage and just blindside him last episode?

          2. Her advantage was irrelevant to this tribal. She gave him the idol to secure his vote. If he wasn’t a fucking moron and didn’t burn it because he’s an idiotic player ( it was already powerless!), she doesn’t go home. And no, it wasn’t because he was trying to send her home – he voted for Ben.

          3. I am a little confused why you’re so fired up about this being Mike’s fault. Lauren also sucks at Survivor pretty clearly.

          4. She made a bad move by giving half her idol to a bad player. Otherwise, her moves till now had been pretty good. But no, she didn’t anticipate just how bad mike is and that he would burn the idol before seeing if Ben had one. Because that’s a stupid thing to do.

          5. Having to guess-anticipate bad logic is so much harder than anticipating sound logic. What an exhausting season for everyone remotely rational.

          6. I don’t think Mike was 100% in on voting for Ben before the decision was made. There was no reason to trust him once you have the idol. Just play it and Ben goes home anyway.

          7. But why? Why didn’t he know who he was going to vote for? He knew who the two targets were going in, and they had a majority with or without Chrissy and Ryan. He shouldn’t have hadn’t to be making a decision at tribal. And again, BURN IT AFTER THE FREAKING VOTE.

          8. So let’s take your postulate that Mike is the worst player ever. Then giving him part of your idol has to be one of the dumbest moves ever given how terrible and unpredictable he is.

          9. Not that he’s the worst ever. That was hyperbole. She made a bad move that i somewhat understand in trying to lock up his vote. She did not understand how bad he was. But again, her move’s badness is predicated on how bad he is

          10. Yep. Terrible move by Lauren. Just as terrible was Mike wanting to put on a show and burn not just a potential advantage but a potential ally. He didn’t even get out who he wanted to get out. Ugh Mike.

          11. I’m curious what would’ve happened if he didn’t burn it, Lauren got voted out, and the leather string thing was left at camp. Could he go into Lauren’s bag and make the complete idol? It’s a stretch of a hypothetical, but there isn’t much else to say about this episode.

          12. What, there’s a lot to say! Well there’s a lot to react to, maybe not a lot of what ifs to contemplate. Because everyone pretty much enacted every what if scenario possible.

            I think he wouldn’t be able to do anything with it because the person who finds the idol has to actually give up possession of an idol for someone else to use it. Can’t be taken or stolen.

          13. But why does Mike give a shit if Ben or Lauren goes home? He obviously had a preference, but it’s completely win/win for him.

          14. I don’t think Mike particularly cared whether Lauren or Ben went home, so Ben having an idol wasn’t a big deal for him.

          15. But if she played her idol then Mike might be drawing rocks or something. I’m not saying Mike is a good player but Lauren having an idol is at best not really helpful for him and at worst it gets him sent home which with these few players left would be a real danger.

          16. They only draw rocks if they run out of people to vote for. There were plenty of people left to vote for

          17. I mean, he can’t guarantee that. It seems most likely, but I’d rather have someone I was considering voting for anyway go home than risk a live tribal with no previously discussed target.

          18. chrissy was the original target before bens name was thrown out, so it’s not as though no names at been thrown out already

          19. Whether pr not Mike is a good player, Lauren is by no means one of the top 30 best players

          20. Yes, it’s a fundamental difference. Because to me anyone in the final 6, can’t be a bad player

          21. It’s not trolling, my position is that Phillips strategy was deliberate, I wrote a thing. em is just mad that player she liked was blindsided and taking it out on Mike. I love em, but we are on disagreement here.

          22. I will believe this when I realize that I haven’t heard about a migrant German shepherd in six months.

          23. That’s why I like him. although, sure tthis season is way better than one with Phillip /s

          24. Only if Phillip’s strategy was to never win under any circumstances.

            I suddenly have just realized a connection between Russell and Phillip’s strategies!

          25. Woot, it’s all clear now, that’s my personal life strategy, no wonder I identify with them.

          26. If it was a deliberate strategy, it was a dumb one, because it is a strategy that can’t possibly win. Unless his strategy was just to extend his fifteen minutes of fame and get invited back to another season that he also couldn’t possibly win. If that was the strategy, I guess it was a success, but that’s not *my* definition of success.

          27. Agreed again, it was a dumb strategy, but I enjoyed Phillip a lot more than most of this cast until the last 2 weeks

          28. I definitely don’t like Philip as much as you, but as long as you’re not arguing his strategy is a solid winning strategy, I’ll chalk it up to “Different strokes for different folks.”

          29. Oh, yeah, I’m delusional, but not so much to think that it was a good strategy. Just personally enjoy wacky players. Have a feeling Shepphard wasn’t the first player who was playing for second or third place.

          30. I’m confused by this comment? Are you suggesting they are bad players? With the suggestion of bob, I think you’re wrong on them.

          31. None of those players are bad players, especially V and Ethan. They are just far from the best winners.

          32. My point is that they made it to final 6 so did something right. much like how there is no undeserving winner…. Except for Michelle

          33. I know, I could probably defend a couple of the players I listed too. Michele though? She’s better than Bob at minimum.

          1. We can’t know, imho – not around long enough. But being a first boot, even twice (esp on a returnee season with outside shit coming in) doesn’t give us enough info. First boots are often unlucky

          2. Fair enough, sorry if I came across as attacking. I usually love your commentary on the show. I’m just a dumb American white guy with weird ass opinions about Survivor. love you, dear!

          3. I never know if internet comments are taken seriously or not just like to make sure it’s clear I’m not TRYING to be an asshole. men usually have no idea what’s going on

          4. This is not meant to be directed at you, but your comment made me think of it, hence the reply.

            I saw somewhere that it’s not enough that you’re not trying to be an asshole. You have to try to not be an asshole. I think it’s good advice (especially for men).

    2. Mike is conundrum to me, because while he probably is the worst player stagectically in the final 6, I see a way how he becomes the winner of this season.

          1. Disagree. The edit was not kind to her, but Rob C has said she would’ve even beaten him, so I don’t think she stumbled her way into anything.

          2. She gave her immunity to Hedi when it was between her and Hedi!!! And at final three it was matt picking who he lost to

            Plus, Rob C is a suck up who would say anything to sound good and non confrontational

          3. The plan to vote for Christie was pretty locked down at that point. In TEoS Rob said that on the canoe ride to tribal he was sitting next to Christie and she leaned over and told him she was willing to vote with his side, and all he could think was “welp, too late.”

          4. He probably also likes to think that he wasn’t THIIIIIIIIIIS close to winning Survivor all the time.

          1. Crowley has multiple challenge wins, awesome/terrible use of fake idol, and was rarely a target. All Mike has is he just tossed half an idol into the fire.

  37. So, is this episode a good argument for why too many advantages can be terrible? Cause here the intersection of idols and advantages resulted in confusing and chaotic gameplay. Could this be because players were overwhelmed by all the odds and options that could come up? Did everyone vote Ben because it was the easy thing to do in a game filled with too many different things?

    1. The intersection of idols and advantages resulted in confusing and chaotic gameplay because no one could keep their mouths shut, basically. The one idol to be successful was the one no one knew about.

      Also I think everyone voted Ben because they were tired of him, really.

  38. Lauren could have brought her advantage and place one of the votes for somebody else. Could have been saved.

    1. I just think no one realized there genuinely COULD be another idol out there – they probably thought Lauren’s was the rehidden Mike one, they didn’t realize that production went back and re-hid Ryan’s as well

  39. I just realized that they were so dumb that literally only one of them had to vote for someone else to split the vote. Lauren could’ve voted for Chrissy or Ryan because Ben was all by his lonesome.

      1. But among Chrissy, Ryan, and Mike, it sounded like two of them were leaning Lauren at one point. You know Lauren, Devon, and Ashley are voting for Ben. So just have two people split it and be safe. (and I know that this is technically different from what @disqus_FeYRrg1QKY:disqus is saying, but the split was still possible)

          1. Not quite but she got voted out because of avoidable mistakes. She closer to Erik’d or Tyson’d herself

  40. Love that Lauren went back to being surly and curt right when it would have been to her advantage to not throw all her advantages away and snipe at everyone.

  41. I guess last week was the wrong time to start talking shit about how the Lauren rebellion would win me the Outcast league. I guess the third time wasn’t the charm.

  42. Ben, you IDIOT, you have a majority. DON’T FUCK IT UP. And my goodness did he overplay this thing like a four-year-old in a superball factory. All he had to do was shut up, keep his four, and eliminate the others. This hurt my brain.

  43. So FTC a tie between Mike and Devon? With chrisssy in third? So she would vote for Mike?

    1. Stop with this tie nonsense. It’s not canon and if it happens the internet will have ruined it by talking about it for 6 months

        1. Which just as easily could’ve been him fucking with Culpepper, as Jeff loves making the person who made the F3 choice feel bad as it was about setting up the next season. A set up, btw, that is completely unnecessary. If we do indeed get an FTC tie this or any season, they’ll have to explain the fuck out of it as it happens and not say “you all remember what I said at the Game Changers finale, right?”

          1. For years people have asked “what happens if there’s a tie at FTC?” and Jeff would only say “We have a plan for that, but we’re not going to reveal it.” Then he finally reveals it last season, completely unprompted – I mean it wasn’t even close to a tie, and he had to really stretch the math for the hypothetical GC alternate final three.

            So either he revealed the plan because (a) he figured there might never be a tie and he just wanted to tell someone, or maybe (b) when that reunion aired there had already been a tie so he wanted to prepare the audience. like when a Previously On Survivor reminds us that someone has an idol/advantage.

          2. But does Jeff really want to twist the knife in Culpepper like that? Is Brad someone that Jeff would want to torture like that?

          3. Because “oh look at that, you would’ve won if you made a different F3 decisions” is one of his favourite bits.

          4. But Jeff likes Brad. I feel that Jeff would not do that to a player that he considers one of his alpha male bros – he’s more likely to do that to a “lesser player” in his opinion.

          5. I feel like I’m not. Jeff loves his alpha male players and wouldn’t want to make them feel worse than they already do once they’ve lost.

            But, potato, potahto.

          6. You’re right. He sure went easy on Colby for the same error. And Malcolm for losing the F4 challenge.

          7. In those situations the person just missed out on winning by a single vote, or was someone that was a fan favorite and would overwhelmingly had won if they had made it to the FTC. With Brad in GC, he was not a fan favorite (although he became one for a few episodes in the middle of the season, but quickly lost that status) and Sarah soundly beat him in the FTC. Despite Jeff’s alternate history, there was no situation where Brad “almost” won for want of a nail.

            Explaining how a tie works did not come up organically in the GC finale. Jeff had to go through several levels of hypothetical hoops in order to get to the situation where Brad would have tied for the win in the FTC. It was pretty obvious that he wanted to explain in that reunion how a tie would work, and he was going to come up with a hypothetical situation that would allow him to do that, no matter how awkward or convoluted it was.

            Now why Jeff felt the need to explain how a tie would work – whether he just wanted to explain it so people would stop asking him, or if he wanted to explain it then so we’d already know for this season – no one knows.

          8. It felt like Probst had to go through 3 different “If this had happened” scenarios in order to get to a scenario that would result in a hypothetical situation where there would be a tie. Even when he got to a final three, most of the jury would not agree with him – it seemed like he had to strong arm a few of them in order to get to a tie.

            Again, it did not feel like a way for the explanation of what they would do if there was a tie to come up organically in conversation. It really felt like Jeff forced it in there, and no matter what any of the players said, he was going to come up with a hypothetical situation where a tie would happen.

          9. I think you feel this way because you’re misremembering the segment.

            Here’s what happened: Probst starts in on his standard question about “let’s poll the jury of what would’ve happened if final immunity winner made a different choice”. Culpepper IMMEDIATELY interrupts to try and stop it because A) he probably doesn’t need this shit in his life and B) it is a stupid hypothetical that proves nothing.

            Probst tries to plow forward. Culpepper continues to object. Probst will not relent. Culpepper eventually does. The jury is polled (with Sarah voting instead of Tai). The result is a tie. Probst explains what happens with a tie. Troy says he’d have voted Culpepper. HAHA FUCK YOU BRAD CULPEPPER, you ruined your chance to win.

          10. So if this was all a set up for Probst to prime the audience for a tie that has happened for the next season, how would he have done if this theoretical game hadn’t resulted in a tie between Culpepper and Tai?

          11. Hey, I’m not saying that HHH ends with a tie. I’m saying that Probst seemed determined to explain at the GC reunion what they would do if there was a tie, and he was willing to find a way to bring it up organically, and the best way to do that was try and come up with a hypothetical situation where a tie happened. But instead of just saying “If A had happened there would have been a tie”, it really came off like he had to say “If A and B and C and D and E had *all* happened, then there would have been a tie”.

            I think it’s just as likely that he just wanted to tell everyone so people would stop asking him about it, and he thought “There’s never going to be a tie, people ask me this every season, I just want to tell everyone so they’ll stop asking me.”

    2. Ben and Devon. And she votes for Devon. That’s where I’m at right now. Especially given Chrissy’s “revenge in any possible way” confessional

        1. That said, I was coming around on the Lauren’s winning this train until about an hour ago so my opinion’s not worth much

      1. And I wouldn’t blame her one bit. Ben has pretty much backstabbed all of his alliances.

        But he’s also been a jerk about it.

        Actually this seems to be the season of the jerks.

        1. Yeah, he could have easily had that conversation about betraying her without being a jerk but that was apparently too much for him. And that’s why she won’t vote for him, not the betrayal. Ben’s got a bit of “I know more about life than anyone else” thing going on

    1. Devon’s definitely winning this right?
      He’s arguably the only one of the remaining players that hasn’t really been shown in a negative light at all. He got that Aras-esque helicopter/drone shot from earlier in the season, and he’s also possibly the most strategic of the remaining players. I was quite impressed tonight when he called for them to vote NOW at Tribal – he obviously saw that Mike had settled on voting Ben and wanted to get the ball rolling before Mike could be swayed or change his mind into voting for Lauren (not that it ultimately mattered but still).
      Plus his Mum seemed super sweet.

      1. I doubt it. I knew more about Michele than I do Devon. Hell I know more about Cole than I do Devon. All I know about him is his job title. It’s hard to imagine Devon or Ashley winning. Enjoyable character though.

        1. All I knew about Michele was that she was a bartender.

          Which wasn’t even true at that point.

          1. You knew that she was a bartender and that apparently she knew how to read and handle people and stick up for herself because she was a bartender. That’s still more than Devon.

      1. Two points to destroy your argument.
        1) who on this season IS a strategic mastermind?

        2) Being a strategic mastermind is exactly how Russel Hantz has won survivor three times and Natalie white is a useless, forgotten runner up

  44. I’m gonna pile on Mike a little more because why the fuck note: Mike, the idea that ever since Guatemala, you have been waiting to just fucking waste an idol is bullshit, and, even if it’s true, you already fucking did that.You are bad at trying to make good TV. You’re not even Joe. You’re replace Joe. Let that sink in.

  45. Wow. That was a trainwreck.

    Ben is now the first person to send someone home with only his vote (outside of a Final 3).

  46. Devon needs to win this. He is the last, best hope for the season and the only remaining competent player.

    1. He is the Jay Byars of this season. He will not win. But he will return. Hopefully on an all-archetype season with Jay, a Christie brother, Joe Anglim, and Malcolm.

      1. “He is the Jay Byars of this season. He will not win. But he will return.”

        That… doesn’t describe Jay Byars.

  47. In regards to the prediction thread: we were all wrong. To paraphrase Brad Jones “I didn’t see these twists coming because those only happen in stupid seasons.”

    1. There was zero hint coming into this episode it would be her. It wasn’t even really hinted until the last like 20 mins

          1. Especially Survivor.

            I saw him at a Q&A in Detroit 2 years ago. I think I took a picture with him and asked him if Chloe approved of his site.

    2. This season is like when you play Hold ‘Em against people who have never played and are terrible and stay in hands they should have folded and they KEEP. WINNING.

  48. So apparently Probts told Dalton Ross that FTC is his favorite of all time and that next week’s episode is insane

          1. what you want to say without the question marks. Try to copy and paste this and take out the ?s.

            Okay not that.

            wywts with no spaces inside the s.

    1. I’m not surprised next episode is insane given that there’s basically no committed alliances left besides Devon-Ashley and possibly kind of still Ryan and Chrissy

    2. Like I competely understand why Probst says that. I also think that no matter how good that FTC Probst is hyping up will save the season. Espically if Dr. Mike is the one who winds up winning because the tie vote (3 Mike- 3 Ben or Devon- 2 Chrissy) that seem like this season is building up to. .

  49. Is there anyone left on this season who can play Survivor well? Anyone? Bueller?

    Devon and Ashley telegraphing their alliance at the challenge was dumb. For all her worry about being seen as a “power couple” with JP, she sure didn’t care that everyone now sees her and Devon as a tight pair.

    Lauren giving Mike half the idol was dumb but understandable. Leaving her extra vote back at camp is indefensible.

    1. Usually I feel like the show wants me to root for people. This year it’s like the editors gave up on that. Like they threw up their hands and said, “these people are terrible, and we’ll just let that be the story.”

        1. Be careful with the hashtag, young @SurvivorWerewolf:disqus. It has a power that may be to powerful for you to handle. Some day I will have to tell you the tale of the hashtag that may no longer be spoken of. Sadly, today is not that day.

  50. I remember seeing a short video on The Internet about the show “Lost” after it wrapped. It was basically a couple of minutes of rapid fire “And what about the…” of unanswered questions from the series. I feel like this season could have one of those videos about inexplicable moves.

      1. That show had a garbage ending equivalent to the ending of the Dark Tower books. Utter crap.

        1. Sigh, I know. I’d still be on board for a Dharma Initiative spin off, I have a lost tattooo….

          1. I watched it on binge after 2, 3-4 live. In my mine it ends when Juliet crushes the bomb and screen goes white
            My tattoo is of the time travel station, it doubles as a Tai symbol so it’s ok

          2. I’m forgetting now, but to me only last season was garbage. I was younger but I quit a job cause they wouldn’t let me have lost night off, it was a big deal

      2. I didn’t hate the end of Lost, but the writers clearly wrote themselves into a corner and had no idea what the fuck to do.

        1. Lost is a big deal to me, I didn’t expect or want answers, but the whole sideways story was dumb to me. That literal plug in the island was disappointing. Still one of the best tv shows ever made

        2. But here’s the thing… they knew when the series was going to end, they knew how much time they had, and they had years to map it out and get it right AND THEY STILL MESSED IT UP.

          I loved Lost through season 4. 5 and 6 are a big bag of very good stories and absolutely horrible stories and the Finale somehow managed to be both.

          1. They knew these things for Battlestar Galactica too — and they fully admitted (after the fact) that the cylons never had a “plan”. I really did enjoy LOST (most of it) but that still doesn’t convince me that they had NO f*ing clue how to get themselves out of the hole they dug.

            I was on board. I didn’t need all the answers. But the pieces of the puzzle needed to at least fit SOMEWHAT together so we could spend the time after the show ended speculating about everything else. Instead the whole thing just… ended, and it felt pointless to even talk about further.

          2. Yeah what gets me is even after they settled on an end date they dug an even deeper hole for themselves during season 5 with a time travel plot that really did nothing for the overall narrative and felt like fan service.

        1. I mean, I’m not saying they didn’t botch the ending, they did. but they technically answered most of the questions. Unfortunately, most of those answered boiled down to, “it was a magic island and stuff” and there is a mystical wine stopper holding the evil in, just terrible

          1. IT had A LOT of flaws. There had to be a better resolution to it than what they came up with. I remember having a perpetual sinking feeling for the entirety of season 6 that they were screwing it up. A better conclusion may have been Jack waking up in the exact same spot where the show started.
            Might have pissed people off even more, but then at least the whole show could have just been a time-loop they were all stuck in to repeat for eternity.

            Once Walking Dead ends, pretty sure they will reclaim the crown of worst series ending of all time.

    1. So you’re saying this season is a story of huge ambition running up against a lack of planning that ended in people furiously spinning their wheels just to get to the end?

      Yeah, that tracks.

      1. It was clearly the dumbest episode of a dumb season. I blame this on PRP for not pre gaming it

        1. This doesn’t change the fact that it is shocking anyone picked (on purpose) 4 players still in the game.

  51. You guys, I still think Chrissy could maybe win this thing

    (and not just because she’s my only remaining hope across both of my fantasy teams)

        1. I’m thinking maybe Ben? It seems like we’re supposed to maybe sort of be on his side, despite him being not great at this.

          1. Dunno man, they have been painting him as an asshole the last few episodes, Ben would be a surprise

          2. Plus he has alienated literally everyone remaining in the game and most of the jury. But then again, with this season who knows…

          3. Yeah, and I won’t dispute that. And he probably *shouldn’t* win, and yet…I don’t know, it feels like he may despite all that.

          4. I have Thoughts on Ben’s edit. Mainly that they really don’t know what to do with him, because he’s a marine, and a hero, and in most circumstances that would get him a glowing edit because who wants to trash the marine with ptsd on tv? But I also hypothesise that he is going to get to tribal council and Not Win. (My current theory: a tied vote against Devon, which he loses when third-place finalist Chrissy breaks the tie). So I think Ben’s edit is an awkward fudge of the hero edit they want to give him, coupled with the awkward realit