Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 13 Liveblog: “The Survivor Devil”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the penultimate episode of Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers!

More like “handsome devil”, amiright?

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
Matt
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  • Marlin M.

    my senses are tingling that is Devon tonight, because why would we have nice things?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Knock on all the wood

  • Hornacek
    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      From many painful experiences i would recomend not trying to reclaim that cup

      • Hornacek

        He was literally biting the sofa earlier. Something had him riled up.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    TEAM DEVON BITCHES!!! THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING!!! WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT DOOMED!!!

    • Marlin M.

      lets hope not! i have a bad feeling.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Someone insert gif plz

    • Words probably said by the Captain of the Titanic right after he hit the iceberg.

    • This is a lot of talking by Devon.

    • Hornacek

      ALL ABOARD THE DEVON HYPE TRAIN!!!

  • Marlin M.

    All the recaps just mention Ben. lol

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      As predicted. Ben is safe

      • Marlin M.

        I notice that they keep saying in the recap that Ben is sending people to the jury.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Did Ryan just imply that his idol play was good?

  • the sky is falling

    Captain of Team Least likely winner Mike here. let’s go Mike!

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Death to mike!

      • the sky is falling

        On a season of dumb strategy and idiotic voting, Mike is the goofy winner we deserve.

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          Mike is the winner the season deserves. That is not a good thing

        • But he not the same kind of goofy of when we deserved it in other seasons.

      • Hornacek

        Well that escalated quickly.

  • Hornacek

    “That may have been better than my idol play.”

    Man, I hope Ryan is joking.

    Who are we kidding? He isn’t.

  • Marlin M.

    WTf ys Ryan talking about? when was his idol play good?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Because it didn’t upset people, so they will still work with him. Talk to Chrissy. Chrissy knows

  • Marlin M.

    Devon what are you doing, buddy?

  • PurpleTally

    “Ben has to go next”
    Cue: Ben immunity win

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      This is all going to hell

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Oh please, lord almighty, let this be Ben finding the idol at the crack of dawn.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      IT’S GONNA BE A CHASE SEQUENCE

      • Taako From Teevhii

        bah, it didn’t happen. BOO

        • BadPlayer91

          This was an amazing self conversation. Likes all around.

      • Hornacek

        We were denied of any ninja-stealth-mode.

  • Marlin M.

    If Ben gets another idol…

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Ridiculous

    • If he got before the immunity challenge then I would have been mad.

  • Oh. This is how it’s going to happen. Cool.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      NOOO Sob

  • Hornacek

    Devon says he’s not gonna let Ben win immunity. Somebody remind me how many challenges Devon has won .

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      I have one finger for you…

      • Hornacek

        That is the most common response I get on the internet.

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          Seems logical

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Hey, he could’ve won over Ashley, but he decided to be a gentleman.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        ^^^

      • Hornacek

        A gentleman who wants a shoulder massage.

  • PurpleTally

    Wait. Do they now sleep in the hole that they dug out to look for the idol under the tribe flag?

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Sand > bamboo, I believe

      • PurpleTally

        Yes, but I think they’re told not to sleep in the sand (not on a tarp) because of crabs and bugs and stuff.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          They’ve bit been doing it for a bit this season before this episode. Maybe if the castaways don’t care about being bitten, then Production is “whatevs.”

          • sharculese

            Sleeping out in the open if it’s nice isn’t new behavior. I don’t think the Philippines cast used the shelter at all for the last ten days.

    • I laughed out loud when I saw they were all huddled in an open grave. Symbolism.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Rupert is the ghost #ghostislsnd

      • Hornacek

        Rupert as the ghost of Nearly Headless Nick in the Harry Potter remake in 20 years.

  • BadPlayer91

    So, he’s just going to find it again?

    YAWN

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      That’s what six now? Or is it seven?

      • BadPlayer91

        I believe the number you’re looking for is TOO MANY

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          I’m not an accountant. I can’t count

  • the sky is falling

    Mike offered free dick pills to all the males on the jury. he’s a lock to win.

  • Marlin M.

    I would like if the producers stopped putting idols out there like bunnies.

    • the sky is falling

      I think at the very least, final 6 is too late to introduce a new idol.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Final seven was to early last week!!

    • Listen when the players start to expect how it works should mean they should not introduce a new idol in the game to fuck with a player like Ben.

      • Hornacek

        Maybe at this point they should pick a hiding spot and put 6 or so idols with a note that says “Only one of these is an immunity idol. You only get to take one.” Like the grail in Last Crusade.

  • BadPlayer91

    So, i’m streaming, and I’m like a minute behind everyone, which makes looking on her a bit dangerous….lol

    • PurpleTally

      Same thing happens to me every week. I typically close the tab when it comes to Tribal.

      • BadPlayer91

        Yeah, last week I kinda spoiled myself on Ben overhearing his alliance’s waterhole conversation, because everyone on her was like “no, you idiots, stop it, they are dumb” lol

    • Hornacek

      I quickly fall behind when I pause the episode to type comments. I just avoid the “Show ## new comments” button.

  • Hornacek

    Why aren’t these other five looking for the idol too? Idiots!

  • Hornacek

    Rings? Ropes? Where are the marbles?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      The balls! The poles!

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Oh that Ryan/Mike team tho

  • Hornacek

    Ryan and Dr. Mike – Team Discovery Channel!

  • Well this nice race between Chrissy and Devon and Ashley and Ben. Yeah Ryan and Dr. Mike have no chance at winning this challenge.

  • PurpleTally

    Mike and Ryan as a team for this challenge is hilarious.

    • Hornacek

      “You have to come back!”
      “Why?”
      “Because I can’t move!”

  • “Lamb Chicken Lobster Sleep in a Bed Private Island” is my new album available on iTunes

    • Hornacek

      Better than your “Spaghetti Wine 3-Person Bed” album.

  • This is my first time watching live in a few weeks, which means it’s my first time following on Twitter. Do any former Survivors care about this season? No one seems to be tweeting.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Only Devon people

    • Hornacek

      Some of the more recent Survivors have said on RHAP that they understand what it’s like when former Survivors criticize their games during the season on Twitter, so they’ve chosen to be nice and stand up for the current players. Man, they chose the wrong season to do this.

  • BadPlayer91

    Ryan’s gotta be an all-time worst challenge competitor right?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Lisi

    • PurpleTally

      Sandra

      • BadPlayer91

        But Sandra was at least good at puzzles? We haven’t seen Ryan even excel at that..

        • Sandra’s not bad in puzzles.

          • PurpleTally

            Oh, that’s right. Sandra is the queen of the slide puzzle. She has an app.

          • BadPlayer91

            “She has an app” LOLOL

          • Hornacek

            She said during/after GC that she downloaded a tile puzzle app on her phone and played it for hours to prepare.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I’m almost 100% certain that was Zeke, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Sandra did too.

          • Hornacek

            I think you’re right about Zeke, but I remember Sandra saying it on an RHAP interview.

    • the sky is falling

      Abi Maria?

      • Abi-Maria was not bad in Cambodia. She almost beat Joe in an endurance immunity challenge and there is some speculation that she could have won it but Production slightly screwed up.

        • PurpleTally

          She also had knee surgery after Philippines.

          • She has somebody else’s bone in her.

          • PurpleTally

            Does that mean she and Pete are back together?

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Womp womp

    • BadPlayer91

      I SAID ‘AN’ NOT THE, THERE CAN BE MANY

    • Well the most recent enteree to the list was CeCe from two season ago. I think Ryan is slightly better at challenges than her.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        David pre merge

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          Can’t put balls in a bascket

        • But he both A. recovered post merge and B. was actually decent at land challenges.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Which is one of many many reasons I love David

    • Blurry Denzel

      Dan Lembo and it’s not close.

      • Hornacek

        But he won the “sit in a giant chair” challenge.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    I wonder if Devon’s perpetual use of the granny toss will carry over to future seasons.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Better than fishback with a slingshot

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    I want to see ryan and mike on TAR

  • Marlin M.

    you saw Ashley’s face?

  • Take Ben so he can’t do any weaseling! Come on! Think!

    • Or Mike at the very least. That way, you can tell your left-out alliance partner that you were courting his vote on both sides.

  • Hornacek

    Devon and Chrissy need to discuss who else to bring on the reward … which really means Chrissy decides and Devon says “Sure.”

    • Marlin M.

      Ashley was pissed!

      • Hornacek

        When will people learn – you aren’t owed or deserve a reward if you didn’t win it.

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          Rodney is the ghost! #ghostislan

          • Hornacek

            #MyDamnBirthday

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            #bringjuddback

          • Hornacek

            (… scumbags …)

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Because Devon is the real master of the social game!

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Chrissy’s relationship of Ryan will be her downfall.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      She won’t get one

  • Marlin M.

    Lol Mike is getting on my freaking nerves.

  • me: wow Ben you’re in a really good place don’t act obnox– wait, i don’t want to hold your beer stop handing me your beer

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Somebody needs to do a post renaming all the seasons

  • We are definitely supposed to like Ben more then we do.

    • Marlin M.

      editing failed!

    • PurpleTally

      Yeah, even the casuals I talk to don’t like Ben anymore.

    • I still don’t know about this. They are foregrounding so much horrific behavior. Perhaps it’s tempered by the frequent references to the PTSD, but…if you discount the expectation that we’re supposed to have a knee-jerk positive reaction to all veterans, they aren’t giving him the best look at all.

    • CBS wants us to believe that he is this underdog, when he is a self-created underdog.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Is he supposed to be WA Mike 2.0?

        • Damn, that’s scarily accurate.

          • But I don’t recall so many obviously salty moments from Mike. Otherwise, sure. But this feels like too much Complex Narrative Edit Personality Edit Complex 4. (I read a lot of that edgic thread the other day lol)

          • He was not great with Lindsey and Sierra.

          • Yeah but we weren’t supposed to care about them.

          • purplerockandy

            Being great with Shirin undid all that.

        • Marlin M.

          i think so

  • the sky is falling

    everyone votes for Ben….
    Ben the next day: “Mike wants me gone.”

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Man can he read a room

  • Taako From Teevhii

    If Ben doesn’t find an idol as they’re walking down the beach to Tribal, we will have gotten the stupidest edit for this episode.

  • Hornacek

    Is this the first time we’ve heard anyone on the show call Dr. Mike “Doc”? I kinda like it.

    • Didn’t Ben call him that during the swap?

      • Hornacek

        I don’t remember that but it could have happened. I’ll have to remember to listen for it when I rewatch the season.

        HAHAHAHAHA!

        • Streets_Ahead

          Right after you finish rewatching One World?

          • Hornacek

            And Gabon!

            Wait – this site already made me rewatch Gabon! Noooooo!

    • Maritimer

      I think Lauren might have once?

  • Streets_Ahead

    I feel like Mike just guaranteed that Ben will find an idol.

    • But, Mike did such a thorough search, SA

      • Listen Survivor tends to re hide the idol during the reward challenge

        • But this is from the man who found his idol based on somebody else’s search.

          • Listen, Dr. Mike is not a good survivor player stagectically. He is good at lasting just one more vote each time.

        • the sky is falling

          It’s too late for a new idol, they should cease them at final 7

          • I agree.

          • the sky is falling

            I think Adam got one at final 5, which is a travesty to me. Shouldn’t only have 3 people to vote for at final 5

          • Purple Rock Emma

            But five is the last time you can play an idol anyway. So there are only three people to vote for if someone holds on to their idol the whole game.

          • the sky is falling

            Rats, foiled again by logic and sound analysis.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Check his pants! That’s what mike is good at

      • Hornacek

        Paging Dr. Alan Ball …

  • BadPlayer91

    Basically, any and all strategy in this season has occurred at a reward dinner table…

  • BadPlayer91

    WHAT’S THIS? CHRISSY GOING AFTER ASHLEY? BUT WHAT A HUGE TURN OF EVENTS! OH WOWIE!

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      But listen guys, i have an idea, what if we vote for a woman. Next week she’ll vote herself out

  • Alkanarra

    Good Lord, Chrissy! It’s day, what, 30-something, your alliance fell apart because you hadn’t talked to other people, and you’re still saying shit like “Devon… I don’t know him well.”

    • Maybe she got confused and thought he was another woman. He does have long-ish hair.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Cody and Jess are on TAR???

    • Marlin M.

      yes

    • Where have you been?

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Not following TAR news. And hey, when’s Celebrity BB starting?

        • Streets_Ahead

          February 7, 2018

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I gotta find out who the cast is to find out if that’s worth watching.

          • No one knows for sure, but there are a LOT of rumors.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Anywhere to get into those rumors? Also, if this is a condensed season, I think this will become the default version of BB.

          • I assume Big Brother Reddit.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            *pouts* but that’s so much worse than r/Survivor…

          • It’s not that bad.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      #nickSabanWatchesBigBrother

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I knew that and I don’t watch BB or TAR.

    • Maritimer

      I’m torn on watching, because I think they will be just awful on TAR and I want to remember the version of them that I liked by ignoring all the extra-textual evidence they aren’t good people because I hated Paul

      • Prom King

        Paul was the worst part of two seasons.

  • Hornacek

    We don’t get to see the fallout when the rewarders return? Oh man I was looking forward to more whining from Ashley.

    • This is another weirdly edited episode.

      • Streets_Ahead

        Well they need to make sure they have enough time to show all those amazing shots of Ben looking for the idol and people talking about how Ben won’t find an idol. Priorities.

  • imagine if Ryan wins this challenge

  • Hornacek

    Are these the same cogs that Tony spun forever until Woo came from behind and won the final immunity ?

  • the sky is falling

    today’s challenge is some sweet ass mouse-trap engineering

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Does Survivor usually reference that all the challenges occur at the same five locations?

  • Shoutout to the vomit that cemented the Chrissy/Ryan alliance.

    • the sky is falling

      Trump?

      • Taako From Teevhii

        This implies that someone first voluntarily ingested Trump, which is much too high of a compliment.

        • Still waiting on the contents of that dossier.

        • the sky is falling

          A whole lotta folks did that, man

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Thank you for dissecting this joke with logic, much appreciated.

    • Hornacek

      Actually, Ryan didn’t know that Chrissy threw up at that challenge. The other 2 tribes had already left when she got sick (confirmed in more-than-one exit interview).

  • PurpleTally

    Every PC adventure game I’ve ever played would have prepared me for this gear puzzle.

    • BadPlayer91

      GIZMOS AND GADGETS?

      • PurpleTally

        HELL FUCKING YES.

        But also, like, every other computer game I’ve played as an adult. I play a lot of hidden object adventure games. Still chasing that sweet Gizmos and Gadgets high.

        • BadPlayer91

          FUCK YES, Gizmos and Gadgets was the legit shit.

    • sharculese

      They didn’t have gear puzzles in Quest for Glory, Tally. What you’re telling me is that you never played Quest for Glory. This outrage I will not brook.

  • the sky is falling

    Can’t possibly be Mike now, right?

  • BadPlayer91

    BIG SURPRISE! A physical race was pointless because of a puzzle at the end…

  • PurpleTally

    This is why it’s important to teach STEAM in schools.

  • Streets_Ahead

    “My plan was to win immunity” What an amazing and innovative plan. Game changer.

    • PurpleTally

      Survivor: #BigMoves

      • the sky is falling

        They need to step up the casting, number of viewers dropping fast, Er, steadily maybe a better word

        • purplerockandy

          You just described every TV show in today’s era.

    • Marlin M.

      they should have waited one more season to put Chrissy on.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Four into nine… No wait

  • Hornacek

    Once more, the challenge comes down to the puzzle at the end, making the rest of the challenge completely pointless! Ooh yeah!

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      I like challenges but these kind are really getting to me. There weren’t any of these in worlds apart *wink*

  • Marlin M.

    funny thing about Chrissy winning immunity, I already knew she was because there was a shot in the promo pics ( or maybe the promo video?) that showed her with it.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Hahaha typical CBS. How are they so bad at stuff like that?

  • Hornacek

    Back from commercial – Ben is walking apart from the other five. Symbolism!

    • the sky is falling

      I’m assuming they are all looking for idol but left out of the edit, cause it’s so frustrating to me

      • Streets_Ahead

        Well I mean Mike talk about looking for it, and it’s pretty common the people look for idols but aren’t shown unless they find it or something notable happens. What I don’t understand is why they seem ok with letting him look with out someone following him.

        • the sky is falling

          Seems like you just stick to him like glue, that’s what happens in better seasons

      • Hornacek

        I meant the shot right after the commercial break when they were walking back from the challenge. The other 5 were bunched together, with Ben off to the side.

  • Oh no is my joke prediction of a 2-1-1-1-1 vote going to happen.

  • PurpleTally

    GUYS. Did you know? Ben is a Marine!

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      This is reaching sierra mom levels

      • Hornacek

        I think you mean Ciera, who (a) is a mom, and (b) voted out her mom.

  • Marlin M.

    this is fucking ridiculous. Fuck this shit!

  • Hornacek

    “Transcendent ferocity”.

  • Marlin M.

    how many more freaking idols are they going to put out? this is not fun anymore.

    • the sky is falling

      They had one later in MvGX

      • But they didn’t have that many to begin with either.

        • the sky is falling

          It’s the combo of idol, immunity and advantage which makes it a mess

          • There it is. The advantage that was in MvGX was so lame that they had to Buff it for Game Changers.

    • We could be at the point were Ben finds an idol each week to final five and then all he would have to do his win the final four fire making challenge. (Because the final four immunity is selecting who will duel for the final spot in the final three.)

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I’m still not convinced that Ben is the winner bc of Jeff’s lack of a tweet after filming wrapped.

      • Max_Jets

        A re-hidden final 5 idol really destroys everything interesting about idols.

  • prettyboyprobst

    Devon wasn’t actually part of that conversation, was he?

    • Marlin M.

      that was weird, i think he wasn’t.

    • No. Absolutely not.

  • Hornacek

    Arrow on tree with writing – “IDOL HERE”

  • PurpleTally

    YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THESE FREAKING IDOLS

    • the sky is falling

      I’d have to see the numbers, but I am not convinced the number of idols has increased. Seems like they are just played more frequently nowadays

      • Hornacek

        Seven (7) total this season:
        Joe: 2
        Ben: 2
        Lauren: 1
        Mike: 1
        Ryan: 1

        (not counting Chrissy’s superidol since that was an advantage, not an idol)

        • jniedj

          I expect a season-by-season breakdown on my desk when I get back from lunch.

          • Hornacek

            Paging Blurry Denzel …

    • The worst part is that there is a chance it could come back next week.

  • Marlin M.

    he found it, i bet you 100 dollars.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    I am absolutely not surprised that they Kimmeled it.

    • Hornacek

      Amanda or Jimmy?

  • No to both the fact that there is an idol back in the game but also they had opportunity to keep Ben finding the idol a secret to us.

  • Streets_Ahead

    HAHA this is the one (3rd time) they’re going to be ambiguous about if a person found an idol or not? GTFO editors.

  • Hornacek

    At this point shouldn’t Ben just rip up the shelter and get the idol, no matter who sees him?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      I do think it’s better for them to not know because then you have better chance of voting out who you want

      • Hornacek

        He could have just grabbed it right before leaving for tribal so they wouldn’t have had any chance to talk about it until they got to tribal.

  • Hornacek

    Ooh – a cliffhanger! Does Ben have the idol or not? Shades of … Amanda?

    • PurpleTally

      And Gary Hawkins.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Shades of stupid

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    Can’t wait for the Andy rant on this

  • the sky is falling

    I will say it again, we may disagree, but production WAnts the idols in play

  • Streets_Ahead

    There are many annoying things people do on survivor but saying that others aren’t willing to make big moves when what they really mean is people don’t want to do what they want them to do is very near the top of the list.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Is this the better methodology than the 3 Amigos? Bc now you’re *forcing* everyone else to draw lines in the sand.

  • the sky is falling

    stupid to play idol that early, dummy

  • Streets_Ahead

    Alright begrudgingly like Ben’s move to play the idol before the vote even happens. Might not ultimately make a major difference but interesting/fun to see.

    • prettyboyprobst

      After he got called out for possibly not playing it, this is not a bad move, I think.

  • the sky is falling

    What the hell was Joe talking about on Twitter? That TC wasn’t crazy at ALL

    • The only crazy part was Ben playing his idol early.

      • Violina23

        …which shouldn’t have been allowed IMO

        • Streets_Ahead

          They’re really nebulous about those rules for this kind of thing. In Cagayan Probst verified Tony had a real idol before voting. In Worlds Apart Probst wouldn’t confirm Mike had a real idol unless he played it. Now Probst let Ben play the idol before voting. Basically Probst is going to do what ever he wants in that spot.

        • Hornacek

          This doesn’t seem that out of line. It’s like if you went to a restaurant and demanded to pay for the meal before it arrived. They’re not going to say “No! You have to pay after you eat!”

      • It’s almost as if Joe tries to oversell everything, ever, always.

        • At least he was pretty spot-on with last week.

          • Stopped clocks and all that, right? Last week was pretty crazy.

    • purplerockandy

      I’m willing to allow that live, that WAS a crazy TC. Since Joe didn’t watch a series of promos and an episode all edited in a way that made it obvious that Ben was safe this week.

  • Streets_Ahead

    Well I guess Devon isn’t getting her vote if he makes it to the end.

    • Hornacek

      In the new format, he may be able to explain it to her so that she understands.

  • The main question is how John is going wind up scoring Ben idol play.

    • Oh fuck. Didn’t think of that.

      • The season wants to kick you while you’re down

      • PurpleTally

        No points. It didn’t negate any votes.

      • StormofCuteness

        He stopped himself from getting votes=negated votes.

  • the sky is falling

    that episode sucked

    • Streets_Ahead

      Well the episode was like 30% hunting for idols, 25% challenges, and 25% TC doesn’t leave much time for anything actually interesting.

    • Violina23

      Meh.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    I hate everyone except devon

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I’m not even sure I like him anymore. Everyone is bad.

      • StormofCuteness

        Why is Ben bad?

        • Dramus18

          He’s snippy towards people when he doesn’t need to be. Like, Mike says this week that Ben’s the #1 target and Ben flips the fuck out even though he knows that literally everyone in the game that’s not him voted for him. Ben has no chill, which makes it hard to like him both on a personal level and also a game one (since it’s obvious everyone dislikes him on the island too)

          But if I power-ranked everyone left he’d be second behind Devon because this season is TRASH.

          • StormofCuteness

            Hrm, I didn’t think Ben flipped out on Mike tbh. I thought Mike being butthurt about not getting picked was funny though. Ben knew exactly where he stood with people and was just trying to find cracks. He’s no where near as snippy as Chrissy, actually has a sense of humor, has worked his ass off to find idols, didn’t tell anyone when he did (unlike every other player), recognized when his alliance was turning on him, gave an award deserving acting job to keep Chrissy and Ryan out of the loop, got Joe out, and the list goes on.

          • Dramus18

            He’s better than Chrissy for sure. And maybe flipped out oversells it, but it was so odd that he was upset in any way, and especially that he decided to make Mike his target in response.

          • Prom King

            He’s definitely better than Chrissy, but Chrissy is definitely better than everyone else.

          • StormofCuteness

            Pretty sure Mike was already his target as he knew that breaking up the pairs would be more difficult. He abandoned that idea when it was clear Devon was not interested at TC and went with the writing on the wall re: Ashley. So, you know, actually used his brain.

          • Hornacek

            I liked how Dr. Mike said “Let’s all be mad for 5 minutes”, giving him and Ashley (let’s face it, Ben didn’t expect anyone to take him on the reward) permission to vent about it, but saying that after those 5 minutes, they should stop complaining about it.

  • Marlin M.

    Probts must have really sucky taste.

    • Streets_Ahead

      That’s been known for a very long time.

    • Hornacek

      “Guys, this next season, Worlds Apart, is the best season in years, maybe ever! It’s got the best cast we’ve ever had, with a winner that all of the viewers will love! Trust me on this!”

  • gouis

    I don’t care if they’re all idiots, THAT WAS FUN!

    • the sky is falling

      Seemed pretty anti climactic to me

      • gouis

        Someone played the idol before the votes were even cast! The first time there was an unknown idol in like 20 seasons! C’mon dude.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          “Unknown”

    • Violina23

      Meh

  • PurpleTally

    Oh, hey, look, Survivor voted out nearly all of the women again.

    • Survivor: Chrissy

    • the sky is falling

      I don’t wanna start a whole fight, but multiple women make it to finale many times. They are primarily targeted pre merge. Ashley was a bore.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        I’m with sky. Typically women are pretty safe post merge

      • Todd City

        That’s how it’s generally worked in the past, but the last couple of seasons seem to be providing (although any survivor analysis is hamstrung by a lack of data) a change in that regard.
        Worlds Apart had women as 4/5 first post-merge boots
        Cambodia always had the women on the jury outnumbering, or at least equal to, the men
        MvGX is difficult to talk about in this respect given the severe gender imbalance post-merge, but Hannah was the only woman in the final 6
        Game Changers went from 8 women and 5 men at the merge to Sarah and three men at F4
        And then there’s this season, with two women as the first merge boots and Chrissy as the only woman in the final 5.
        Kaoh Rong would probably be the season that best conforms to the traditional narrative, although it should be noted that due to medevacs, just as many women as men were voted out post-merge.
        tl;dr while women are still primarily targeted pre-merge, there’s been a change in dynamics that make them common early to mid post-merge boots as well.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Ashley was a bore, but there was no fucking reason to vote her out. It’s just because Chrissy has a bizarre aversion to other women.

        • Prom King

          Well she is the person with whom Chrissy has the least amount of sway.

          Although that’s probably because she’s never actually spoken to Ashley.

          • Hornacek

            After the first tribal, Chrissy went around and spoke to everyone, so we know that she spoke to Ashley then.

        • No Eyes in Blindfold

          While I agree that Chrissy does not seem to gel with women, Ashley was probably the biggest immunity threat as she did well most of the time and won twice (though Devon did decide to step down and her two wins were endurance based). Mike, Ben and Ryan have not been that good. If Ashley won the next 2 immunities, Chrissy would be the biggest target at f4. With Ashley gone, Chrissy is now the only one to win immunity of the final five. While it might not have been Chrissy’s reason, taking out an immunity threat isn’t the worst idea.

    • wonderand

      You know how women are: untrustworthy, no solidarity, bad at alliances. That’s why Chrissy, who’s not like other girls AT ALL, has to make sure she never has to rely on them.

  • Jeff Probst and Joe lied to us. That was not a good episode of Survivor. The idols going back into the game are impacting the game too much and are getting too predictable. That tribal council was not wild enough and I still not rooting for the people the show wants me to.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    So who will Chrissy vote out next? Mike because he has emotions?

    • BadPlayer91

      My boyfriend said ‘herself, because she’s a woman’ LOL

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Already said that!

    • gouis

      Whomever has the smallest dick.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        #idolstripsearch

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        At least Devon would be safe!

  • Is anyone else surprised that Probst let Ben do that? I’d think that it unfairly steers the votes off of Ben, when, conceivably, some people might have been willing to risk him not playing his idol.

    Like 2017, the only guarantee for HHH is that, somehow, it will continue to get stupider.

    • PurpleTally

      I don’t like the precedent that sets. At all.

      • Violina23

        I agree. Not good.

      • the sky is falling

        Seems like it’s gotta break a rule of some sort

        • PurpleTally

          Typically, the rules for HIIs pretty explicitly state that it should be presented after the votes are cast, before the votes are read.

          • Hornacek

            The part of that rule that’s the most important is “before the votes are read”. I buy Jeff waiving the rest of the rule because if someone chooses to play it during tribal, before the votes are cast, or after the votes are cast, the consequences are up to the player – they are still protected before they see the votes.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Yeah now there is no point in bluffing you’ll just get called out

    • I think Probst has let this cast go into the whole “make good tv” rule too much.

      • PurpleTally

        Especially considering that, for the most part, this has not been good TV.

      • Violina23

        No doubt about it. But that has a history of backfiring (see: Advantagegeddon, among other things)

        • Diego Armando

          But no one did anything out of the ordinary in Advantagegeddon. They all played their Idols st the designated Idol playing time and there was (and never will be) a limit on how many Idols can be used at one Tribal Council.

    • wonderand

      No, not at all. Why is it unfair for Ben to decide that he’s not going to create an opportunity to increase the relative value of his own vote (as in the last episode, where his was the only vote that counted)? If Ben wants to make sure everyone other person gets to cast a vote that counts (potentially losing control of where the vote goes) by playing his idol when it might be unnecessary, that seems like better overall tv, and not significantly different-in-quality gameplay.

      EDIT: I will say, I don’t think Probst should’ve *verified* the idol until after votes were cast. But if Ben wants to hand it over early, so be it.

      • Violina23

        At the VERY least, Jeff should not have confirmed it was an idol until after the voting was complete.

        • wonderand

          AGREE, and jinx!

      • I get that, but I still think Ben should’ve been forced to decide if he wanted to play it after everyone voted. I’m sure the chances of him not playing it are incredibly small, but they’re non-zero, and Survivor shouldn’t allow players to preempt themselves from screwing up their own games.

        • wonderand

          I guess I think it’s more “screwing up his own game” than not? This one’s an interesting case because Ben is presenting as an alliance of one right now, but typically part of the idol’s power comes from not having to reveal it until after votes are cast (thus being able to get your opponents to throw away their votes on you).

        • Hornacek

          I’m guessing that Ben surprised Jeff by playing it when he did, and Jeff just thought “Um, sure, ok, I’ll accept this now if you want to play it now.” This is the first time this has happened so they probably didn’t expect it. They may look back on this season after it’s done and create a rule if they want to change it (i.e. “Idols must be played when Jeff says “If anybody has …” and not before).

    • purplerockandy

      What does allowing it prevent, exactly? If Probst said “no Ben, you have to wait”, what changes at this exact vote?

      • Really, nothing. My gut instinct was to criticize it because a) I don’t like it when Ben is happy and b) I like criticizing HHH, but a situation in which
        this actually affects anything would be incredibly rare.

    • I think if Ben wants to make a showy play that actually lessens his own power, Probst is under no obligation to stop him doing it.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    I’m trying to figure out why Ben voted Ashley. Bc you can’t get back in with everyone else, so “unity” wins you no brownie points. If Devon doesn’t join you and Ashley (and votes for Ashley), then it’s the same result. If Devon votes with you, you go to rocks, which means Devon or Ryan goes home, which seems like the better outcome for Ben anyway.

    • Prom King

      He read Devon’s lack of response as a no-go for voting against Mike? Ashly and Chrissy are the biggest immunity win threats at this point.

    • My take: if you are in the majority (currently Ryan and Chrissy again, somehow, despite there only being two of them), and look like you have a good shot at getting to final 3, then Ashley is the wrong choice to vote out really – you want to be taking out a threat.

      If you are in the minority and NOT a lock for final 3, though (Ben, Devon and Mike…again, weirdly, because there are three of them) then Ashley is a pretty good person to take out because it limits other peoples’ options and increases your odds.

      Despite her BEING THEIR TARGET, I think Chrissy and Ryan somehow contrived to lose this vote. Everyone else benefits from Ashley being gone more than they do.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I’m with you entirely if everyone in the minority is on a level playing field. But Ben is in a tougher jam bc everyone else will conspire to get him out. He needs at least one ally, and I think Ashley was the least resistant to working with Ben.

      • Figaro

        I would argue that Chrissy benefits by voting out the only other player to have won Immunity (none of the men have won) making future Immunity wins for herself more likely, but it was definitely a silly move by Ryan.

  • So, basically the “Previously On…” last week once again predicted that Chrissy would be successful in getting out Ashley.

    • Prom King

      Am I wrong here, or did they also not show a scene this episode that was actually featured in the Previously On? I’m thinking a brief bit when Chrissy says there is a way that Ben could stay – but to Ben, not her new alliance.

  • Hornacek

    Hug for Ben, and a snub for Devon! Oh snap!

    • Marlin M.

      Ben is winning, bottom 5 season.

      • BadPlayer91

        Ben is winning, but not bottom 5. I mean, Thailand, Nicaragua, Africa were WAY worse than this. I’d guess bottom 10.

        • Marlin M.

          thailand, nicaragua, one world, worlds aparts and this ( IMO)

          • the sky is falling

            Nothing can happen at this point that makes this a good season. Unless they let Tony Vlachos join the game for finale

          • Violina23

            He should have been allowed to sub in for Joe

          • the sky is falling

            Haha. Survivor: Tag teams

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Sorry guys. Clone malfunction. Gotta take ovah. Yoo hoo! Duce’s! Finds three idols

          • BadPlayer91

            GAWD, think if Tony was out there? He would have like, 6 idol’s in his pants. People would be like ‘we can see those’ and he’d be like ‘so what? I’ve got enough to cruise to the final at this point’

          • Violina23

            Tony and Ryan would get into a chest-puffing competition over who has more idols in their pants

          • Tony would be burning surplus idols to keep warm at night.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            I’d have worlds apart higher. Because the only true mike

        • Prom King

          No! Africa good! Very Good!

      • Violina23

        I feel very “meh”. Definitely lower half, but not bottom 5.

    • And they both voted for her.

    • Maritimer

      Twice this episode Ashley was shown being a sore loser. Could spell trouble for Devon getting her jury vote, but she also hates everyone else I think so she may come back around.

      • Hornacek

        The new FTC format could help Devon explain to Ashley why he voted her out in a way that gets him her vote.

        • Maritimer

          I hope so. Though I think that might have been her straight up jury question anyway

  • Mike Hirsch

    Trying to ascribe reason for why these players do what they do is a fool’s errand. A fool’s errand, I say!

  • Hornacek

    Did Joe give the Number Six “Be seeing you” salute as the players left?

  • NToS: “The final secret advantage of the game…until the 3 immunity idols we’re hiding at FTC.”

    • the sky is falling

      Yeah, WTF with advantage at final 5, uncalled for

    • Mike Hirsch

      Is it a secret if Jeff announces it?

      • Violina23

        If Jeff announces it, then nobody will follow Ben looking for it. Because LOGIC. And STRATEGY!

        • Mike Hirsch

          Jeff just walks over and hands it to Ben.

          • Violina23

            Then they’ll probably go searching…

  • BadPlayer91

    So, after Ben pulled out his idol and was like “boom” Chrissy immediately was stuttering out a comeback about him being over the top and that not flipping the game and her being calm, while she was clearly rattled. It was a perfect little peek into her need to appear calm and on top of every situation, when the appropriate reaction is “oh shit, I should have actually stopped him from looking for an idol”…

    • Streets_Ahead

      1. All of them should have had that reaction not just Chrissy. 2. Ashley got voted out which seems like Chrissy was toying with trying to pull off anyway so she might not feel as bad about it as she should.

      • BadPlayer91

        I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but the speed with which she tried to eradicate his move felt more like an attempt to bring Ben down off his high horse. Which is understandable, but I think it also speaks to Chrissy’s approach to this group, and is perhaps a peak into why she has so put off the individual’s she’s playing with.

        • i and 1

          Kind of a mix between emotional, reckless prideful reflex AND that same gut reaction’s claim for power having some tactical value—a gamble like, “Here we go, can I succesfully finish this sentence and the have others agree enough to keep my implied Plan B intact?”

      • Crappy

        Why? Ben is just trying to play up his idol for a TV moment, let him do his bit. What do you gain by a snotty come back. Even if you are not bothered about his idol since Ashley was always the back up plan then no need to suggest the same.

    • Mike Hirsch

      Keep on making explosion noises, Ben.

    • gouis

      She’s SUCH a poor sport. It’s almost as if nothing has gone wrong for her entire life.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I believe you mean, “She’s a bad damn sportsmanship, man!”

    • Hornacek

      It may be that Chrissy was thinking “We were already planning on voting out Ashley instead of you, so you just wasted that idol.”

      • Something Quirky

        But she’d want credit for that. So I’d wager she was thinking that the jury needed some insight that he was wasting the idol so that they didn’t give him any credit for playing it, and instead gave Chrissy credit.

        • Hornacek

          Yeah, that makes sense. The jury saw at the previous tribal that Ben made the sole decision about who got voted out, so Chrissy (and everyone else) should be making sure that it doesn’t happen 2 tribal in a row.

  • BadPlayer91

    WAS THAT A SHOT OF CHRISSY’S TRIBAL ONE IDOL?!?!? WILL IT COME BACK?

    • purplerockandy

      I, for one, am VERY excited for another fake idol ploy. Look for this week’s podcast to break down all the strategic possibilities it will present.

    • Hornacek

      TYPING CAT.GIF

  • Taako From Teevhii

    I wonder if Chrissy’s fake idol will still work with Devon around. If he’s not entirely on her side, that thing has no power around her neck. Even so, we’ve seen a bunch of idols this season, and most/all of them looked like driftwood necklaces. Will anyone else notice?

    • Probst’s vomit comment was foreshadowing. We’re going full circle. Richard Hatch will rise out of the ocean, turn to Chrissy and say “My child, you were the rat. It was written.” And then Probst will burst into a squawking ball of flames and re-emerge as Ryan Seacrest

    • purplerockandy

      Does someone who NOBODY wants eliminated from the game need a fake idol tho?

  • Hornacek

    Was that Chrissy’s fake idol on her chest that we saw in the preview? I can’t remember what it looked like.

    • Yes, my guess is that it being used to prevent Ben from looking from the real idol.

  • Hornacek

    Everyone voted for Ashley? So much for Ben’s offer yo her to vote for Dr. Mike.

  • Spergatory

    Wait, what? Ben pointed to Mike but didn’t even vote for him. I’m so… whatever. That wasn’t a non-drop stream of stupidity like last week at least. Good on Devon for making good and damn sure Ben played that thing.

    Could it really come back to Chrissy, Ryan, and Devon, after all this? And holy shit; now that the Super Idol Alliance has been repaired, is that thing actually going to see some use? I’m shocked.

    • Maritimer

      The alliance that was set up in episode 1, but took a long hiatus, ends up being in the final 3? I think that’s surprisingly possible right now

  • Isaa

    At this point I’ve made peace with being the only person still having fun with this season.
    *Waves Devon flag and lazily pumps fist*

    • If Devon wins, it will be better than bottom five for me.

      • Marlin M.

        maybe it will bring up to bottom 10. Im just very suspect of the edit, and i really believe that Ben is winning.

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          Same

        • Violina23

          I think they’d be working harder to make him look like less of an asshole if he was winning

    • BadPlayer91

      I think it may also just be that we’re all a little intense. Am I enjoying this season? Yes. Am I really frustrated with all the stupidity? Yes, a ton. I’m not gonna leave this season feeling like i’ve wasted my time, but being super nerdy about Survivor means analyzing everything in comparison to what’s come before, and while this season is entertaining, that doesn’t mean it is good in the pantheon of Survivor.

      • the sky is falling

        I feel like the first Brains Brawns Beauty was the last time overall consensus was positive

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Cambodia? There are dissenters, but they’re mostly in the minority. Or MvGX, which was universally considered average or above.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Gotta agree with both, even tho I’m biased twords both

          • the sky is falling

            MvGX had the whole problem of stupid theme, and genx cast mostly sucking. But yeah, cast was better than this one

          • Hi, I’m here

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Hey Barbara. You are in the Cambodia minority. But you already knew that.

          • One day, one day you will all agree with me.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Is that a threat?

          • No. I mean I am a witch, but I’m a good witch.

          • Violina23

            Sounds like exactly the kind of thing a bad witch would say

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Mmm…

            You are a self proclaimed villain.

          • There’s no proof of that.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I mean, if I wanted to scour the comments you did say that. It’s cool. Villains are the best.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            You’re down on Cambodia? We can’t talk anymore

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Cambodia is how i found this shithole website

          • BadPlayer91

            HOW DARE YOU!

            We prefer the more proper ‘shite-hole’

          • mratfink

            we actually prefer poopy-hole

          • Taako From Teevhii

            LANGUAGE!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            GO BACK TO THE AVCLUB YOU FINK!

          • Purplerockmatt

            YEAH YOU TELL HIM!

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            I miss you Mr. Poopy Butthole

          • Taako From Teevhii

            *ahem* Poopybutthole is one word.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Rick and Morty in da house

          • Taako From Teevhii

            After Pickle Rick and Szechuan Sauce, I am very reticent about admitting that I watch the show

          • gouis

            You can watch and love a show without identifying with horrible fans. My uber-feminist wife loves Rick and Morty and mostly has no idea about all the annoying fans.

          • Hey! It’s a shithole *podcast*. The website is perfectly mediocre.

          • purplerockandy

            I’m so sorry.

          • Oh no, I like you.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Relationships are hard, that’s why I’m here!

          • Streets_Ahead

            Cambodia is fine but other season do it better. The “original” parts weren’t original.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You hate Cambodia, right?

        • Cambodia was one of my favorite seasons ever and MvGX was very good.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Cambodia should be in discussion for top five a mvgx has a case for 10-12ish

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Whatever you do, don’t let someone try to convince you that Cambodia isn’t Top 10.

          • Who would ever?!

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            An evil witch?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “Momma’s gonna buy you a mock-ing-bird!”

          • DrVanNostrand

            Probably the type of person who would say “South Pacific is actually pretty good on a re-watch.” Off the top of my head, I can’t come up with an example of someone so crazy, but I’m sure she’s out there somewhere….

          • What did I ever do to you?

          • Streets_Ahead

            I was with you until I realized you said isn’t not is. Cambodia is ok. But it really wasn’t that interesting IMO.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I hate to say it, but I’m with John on this one.

          • the sky is falling

            Oh Cambodia was more recent than BBB, correct then, I have the timeline all out of whack.

      • Streets_Ahead

        I am enjoying but I enjoy most survivor seasons. If I truly didn’t like it I would just stop watching. But still compared to most other season this isn’t as good as most of them IMO. Plus I just enjoy complaining about things.

      • i and 1

        A lot of great sequences in sports rely on the losing side mak8ng mistakes, and often some conspicuous bit of luck. The amazing play itself needn’t be nullified by the fact that it wasn’t executed against a series of the worst possible breaks against the executor, or that they had some fortuitous and unexpected assistance. Lauren’s overconfidence allowed Ben to triumph last week, but still, that was top tier shit. I think he could deserve a bit more intensity for how well he played there, yeah.

    • Prom King

      I’m with you! This is an entertaining low-middle tier season.

    • Crappy

      I have enjoyed last 4 episodes enough that this won’t be bottom 5 for me. Higher than GC and likes of SoPa and Gabon too. So probably just rounding off or just above the bottom 10.

  • Hornacek

    Episode description from Bell on my PVR: “Castaways battle to win individual immunity and earn a spot in the final five.”

    Obviously Rupert has been hired by Bell to write specific episode descriptions.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      “Fucking stray dog gets into shit then runs away.”

      • “…possibly kills someone with rifle.”

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          That would be a great Degrassi crossover.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Drake better watch out.

          • Hornacek

            That was how Wheels’ parents actually died.

  • Dalton Ross has ranked HvHvH 17th and Game Changers 18th.

    • Marlin M.

      how the fuck is that so high?

      • I think he likes to put the current season in the exact middle if he is unsure of how he feels, but this feels way too high.

        • Mike Hirsch

          I’d say 28 maybe. But that’s just gut placement with no real consideration.

          • I think the ceiling of this season is 24.

          • Mike Hirsch

            That feels about right for an optimum height.

    • That is too high for both of them. Koah Rong is better then both of those seasons.

      • BadPlayer91

        Ugh oh, here comes Andy to shit on Koah Rong!

        • mratfink

          KR sucks and it is still better than those two seasons

        • purplerockandy

          KR is better than both of those two seasons.

          • Max_Jets

            Aww, now go fix your season ranking!

          • purplerockandy

            Wait, what two seasons are we talking about?

          • Max_Jets

            I believe you put Game Changers over Kaoh Rong (alright, I know you did, I just checked when I posted my comment.)

          • purplerockandy

            I’ll tell you how that happened: when deciding where to put GC, I kept going down the list until I hit KR. Then I had a debate that I really couldn’t resolve. I’m guessing I put GC first either A) because it had a better winner, thus providing some internal consistency with my lower ranked seasons, or B) the alphabet.

      • KR is 21 or 22.

        • I know. Koah Rong is legions ahead of these two seasons.

      • Violina23

        After the last two seasons, I am looking back on KR more fondly than ever.

      • Blurry Denzel

        Where is all this KR hate coming from? Is it Michele? I remember enjoying that season and it being popular here while it was playing.

        • I love Koah Rong

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “jersey_luck loves Koah Rong and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt!”

          • Hey at least you got a tee-shirt, @BarbaraAnderson got nothing.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Yeah, I figured you did but I thought it was a more widely liked season around here. I probably have it in the 13-15 range but I love a lot of seasons, so that is still pretty good.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Tocantins is the best season.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Exactly. Tocantins is the best season except for Pearl Islands, Palau, Cook Islands, Micronesia, Heroes vs Villains, Philippines, Cagayan and Cambodia in some order. We’re saying the same thing.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Ha! I love you BD, but that’s crazy. I’ll give you “not the best” (which Tocantins is), but ninth best? C’mon!

          • Blurry Denzel

            That’s exactly what I’m saying though I absolutely love Tocantins.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I have no idea why we assume that any of your rankings are valid. This is crazy talk!

          • Blurry Denzel

            It might be the volume of rankings I do. If there are a lot there then it seems like I actually know what I’m talking about.

        • Roswulf

          I found it generally unpleasant, though I know I’m quite an outlier on that. Lots of the “fun” gameplay came from bullying assholes, and the endless medevacs were just awful to watch for me.

          In particular the Caleb/Alecia boot episode was my single least favorite episode of Survivor of all time.

          • purplerockandy

            The defining players of Kaoh Rong were Jason and Scot and it isn’t close. People thought they were watching their comeuppance when really, they were watching them make every decision that counted.

          • Max_Jets

            Every decision that counted? Jason and Scot voted correctly zero times in the post merge.

          • purplerockandy

            “Hey fellow jury members… Aubry and Tai suck and we should never vote for them. Deal? Deal.”

          • Max_Jets

            That MIGHT apply to Julia (who was always voting Michele anyways), but definitely does not apply to Debbie and Cydney. I don’t think they should be blamed for the way the jury swung just because everyone wants to hate them and how butt hurt they were. I’m also of the opinion that Michele/Aubry is very similar to Sandra/Parvati in several ways, down to the way the jury greeted Candice in her Ponderosa video. I think HvV’s jury doesn’t get ripped in the same way because Sandra is delightful (and of course, has also proven herself on other seasons).

          • Hornacek

            Not sure about Julia, but Cydney’s decision to not vote for Aubry was not swayed by Jason and Scot – it was her own hypocrisy. On her post-season RHAP interview, she said that the reason she didn’t vote for Aubry at the FTC is because Aubry voted her out at final four, when Aubry’s only options were (1) Vote for Cydney and force a tie to try to stay in the game, or (2) roll over and let Cydney vote her out of the game.

            In the same interview, Rob asked Cydney about her plan to get to the final three, and she said that if she had been able to vote out Aubry at the final four, she expected to win and get Aubry’s vote because she expected Aubry to respect her game, including voting her out in order to get to the finals. Unfortunately, Cydney could not follow her own advice.

          • Max_Jets

            We have had a long back and forth about this that went nowhere. I don’t think that Cydney CORRECTLY guessing that Aubry would have voted for her means that she demanded that vote. “she expected Aubry to respect her game, including voting her out in order to get to the finals” – because that would be Aubry’s criteria, not Cydney’s, and Cydney knows that. If JOE had been in the finals without Aubry and did not get Aubry’s vote, but then Aubry said something like “I think Joe would have voted for me in the finals because we were super close allies”, would that make her a hypocrite? Nope, it means she has different voting criteria and can anticipate where other people’s votes would land. But agree to disagree.

          • Hornacek

            Yeah, I remembered debating this with someone recently. All I can say is that in her post-season RHAP interview, she told Rob that she expected Aubry to vote for her if Aubry was on the jury because she expected Aubry to vote for the better player, even if Cydney had voted her out. The exact same situation ended up happening, but with the roles reversed. It’s kinda the definition of hypocrisy for Cydney to act shocked and hurt that Aubry would vote her out and not vote for her to win.

          • Prom King

            If you mean defining as in they helped the winner to win, then yeah. They did that. And also their toxic bs cast a pall over the season that made it a frequently irritating experience (although their comeuppance was awesome and they weren’t toxic enough to be all-time season ruiners).

            But if you mean they are what made the season interesting, then no, that’s Aubrey and Tai of course. But I assume you mean the first thing, that’s the most strategy-based perspective at least.

          • purplerockandy

            A lot of modern defenses of Aubry even having her losing in the finals to Jason (thereby defending her decision to vote him out instead of Michele). If that’s true, then KR was even more dire than we thought (and Aubry was even less good at Survivor than we thought).

          • Prom King

            and Aubry was even less good at Survivor than we thought

            this is upsetting but I think true. Still love her as a character though.

          • Streets_Ahead

            People thought Aubry was good at Survivor? Oh. Bad news then.

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, this has been my position. People’s position on KR is generally based on whether they consider Jason and Scot good villains or just awful television. Roswulf and I fall in the second category

        • purplerockandy

          You guys enjoyed the season because you thought it was about one thing, when really it was about another. Since then, you’ve just decided to live in the memory of how wrong you were about it.

          • Max_Jets

            What did we think it was about? Aubry winning? I love Aubry’s game, win or lose. Michele winning doesn’t undo that. It’s the same way I feel about Parvati’s game in HvV. Kaoh Rong delivered entertainment episode after episode and did so with killer character arcs along the way.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Somebody watched The Wire.

          • purplerockandy

            Yeah, I’m pretty unique in that respect.

          • I enjoy both what I thought it was live and what it actually was.

      • Maritimer

        The really fun part will be when we get to fight with John and Andy about where they rank this season versus SJDS

    • Maritimer

      Woah, woah, woah, I just went through the whole rankings for the first time in a while and he has Tocantins at 22??????????? what’s up with that?

  • So for all that are wondering what that final advantage might be: They changing up how you get into the final three. The winner of final immunity challenge selects one other person to give immunity to. The other two people go on to the fire making challenge to duel for the final spot.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      I thought that was a rule change, not an advantage. I assumed that what Jeff had was the reward at the F5 RC.

      • No the immunity necklace is right beside Probst when he reveals the advantage.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Hmmm, I missed that. Still think the wording is off tho.

          • I get that. They better not be voting off a juror as well.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I can imagine a world where they see no wrong with what they did in KR, but they are somewhat receptive to criticism. So they split the diff and let them cancel the vote of one juror, but that juror is still around for discussions.

          • Um…I think I can see why they didn’t like that for one reason and one reason only: Neal was a vote for Aubry.

          • Violina23

            I always assumed it was because, after all the medivacs, they wanted to use that last challenge they had built.

          • Except it was the leftovers from the first IC.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Not sure about that. Why would it be called final five then

    • Maritimer

      I think it could be as simple as the advantage at the next immunity challenge reward

    • Hornacek

      That is more of a rule change and was announced before this season started.

  • Marlin M.

    Probts describing FTC as one of the best is probably Ben winning because we all know what kind of men Jeff has a hard on

    • Oh my gosh, that does make sense especially since Probst mentions that people’s minds get changed and a lot of the jury hates Ben

      • Hornacek

        Jeff also said that the viewers will go into FTC rooting for one player, and a lot of them will exit FTC rooting for another player. I think Jeff assumes that Ben is who the viewers are rooting for at this point, so not sure if this indicates good news for him.

        It sounds more like someone left who they know the viewers are not rooting for, or expecting to win, is going to give such a great FTC performance that we’ll all turn around on them. Or the front-runner tanks it so badly in the FTC that we change our minds and root for the other person (just assuming that the third player is a goat and not worth rooting for).

        • giorgos

          I think with every week that passes I believe this more. I guess there’s also the point that Jeff might be talking more about how he experienced the season as it happened than what was the final edit (the amazing endgame/winner of WA etc.) but I don’t buy it. I think Jeff would know way before he made those comments who the show will turn into the main character of the season.

          • Hornacek

            I wish Jeff hadn’t told us this because now I’m be watching next week knowing that if there is a front-runner going into FTC, chances are something will happen to change that.

            Just like the last couple of weeks, Jeff and Joe have tweeted “This next tribal council is crazy!” So when the show was telling us “This person is going home”, I knew that wasn’t going to happen.

    • PurpleTally

      I’m still holding onto hope that this is when we get a FTC tie.

  • Marlin M.
    • Taako From Teevhii

      Counterpoint: the reason there are more idols is because they’re played more often and are recycled back into the game more frequently. Which is preferable to people hoarding their idols and booting Cirie by default there not actually be a vote at tribal.

      • the sky is falling

        They are getting us prepared for when they just draw marbles to determine the winner

        • Hornacek

          Drawing a marble is the actual method to break a tie at FTC.

      • BadPlayer91

        This is a fair point, in that last season all the idols/advantages happened at once and we all hated it. Idols/advantages have been more spread out this season, but I guess we’re finding that isn’t preferable? Like, I want a good sprinkle of idols and advantages, but not a single downpour or a constant rain, ya know?

        Thinking about it, if idol’s going back in is a 100% sure thing, then someone can use ‘finding idols’ in the same way that Ozzy always tried to use ‘winning immunity.’ At this point, Ben being in the game is largely because he found 2 idols in a row, not because of his social or strategic game, in the same way that Ozzy would ‘immunity’ through his inability to not be a douche. I’m not saying this is the game breaking, but I would rather Ben had to scramble to figure out a new place in the tribe he created with his last idol, than watch him scramble to find an idol, and a significant portion of this episode was a ‘will he/won’t he’ find an idol while watching Ben shake trees and hit bushes with a stick…

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Hey man, it’s not the show’s fault these players are too dumb to follow Ben around.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        I agree they should come back. JUST NOT AT 6

      • Purple Rock Emma

        THANK YOU. It’s not multiple idols in play at the same time post merge or anything. It’s just less hoarding. Which is better! This season sucks enough on its own, we don’t have to invent reasons.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Damn, we’re not even to 350 yet and Disqus is already eating comments.

    • It’s hungry, it needs sustenance to liiiiiiiiiiiive

      • Mike Hirsch
        • Still waiting for my legitimate theatre breakthrough as Seymour. The part was made for me.

          • Mike Hirsch

            My tailor-made part would be “the guy who sings ‘Thank You Very Much’ in Scrooge.” Seymour would probably be my number 2.
            So I could be your understudy!

          • WOW deep pull yo.

          • Mike Hirsch

            And seasonally appropriate.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Also, it’s a role that suits my strengths: a bit showboaty, with only about five or six minutes of total stage time.

          • Violina23

            I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Showboat.

            (But not as much as I hate “The Pajama Game”)

          • StormofCuteness

            Why do you hate The Pajama Game?

          • Violina23

            Because it is stupid! The story is stupid. The songs are stupid (We had to vamp on “Seven and a half cents” during the scene change and I wanted to murder someone).

            It actually had the line “Take off your dress, you’re among friends”, and she FUCKING TOOK OF HER DRESS.

            I can’t stand that show.

            I will point out that I have also played in the pit for musicals about the lives of Fiorello Laguardia, and P.T. Barnum, and I hated these shows less.

          • StormofCuteness

            Ah, I’ve just seen the movie, and I loved the choreography. Probably way different to have to play it time after time and really have to pay attention.

          • PurpleTally

            Christine Colgate in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.
            HERE I AM, bitches.

          • MsFjordstone

            Just coming here to say that this seriously earwormed me. I haven’t been able to get it out of my head since I read this comment yesterday. (I know, I know, the cure is “Yellow Submarine,” but I don’t want that earworm, either.)

          • Hornacek

            “Excuse me! Pardon me, beg your pardon, if you two kids would stop singing for just a moment I’ve got something I want to discuss with you.”

        • Violina23

          YES I WAS THINKING THIS!!!

          Now I’m picturing Dr. Mike singing “I’m your uroolllllllogist”

        • Hornacek

          Does it have to be human?

  • Dubious Rob

    Wow, this group has become unpleasant to watch.

    • the sky is falling

      The commenters or the contestants?

      • Two things.

        • I didn’t come here to be unfairly made fun of by people I don’t know – I came here to unfairly make fun of other people I don’t know.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I come here for both.

      • Dubious Rob

        The contestants. I enjoy the commenters. 🙂

      • Hornacek

        Were we ever pleasant to watch?

  • Whatever this show after Survivor is sure has a lot of bros. I’m not opposed.

    • SEAL Team is the show after Survivor. It David Boreanza’s new employment after Bones.

      • Still think Boreanaz’s best performance was as Wallpaper in “Bojack Horseman.”

        “SEAL Team”
        Pros: bros
        Cons: no seals OR sea lions as of yet

        • Violina23

          I would TOTALLY watch a show about a team of seals or sea lions.

          • Mike Hirsch

            That feels like it either happened on or could be a spin-off of Zoo.

          • Violina23

            Damnit Mike, this is the second time you have written something that I was thinking, but didn’t choose to post.

      • Violina23

        He will always be an pouty-lipped emo vampire to me.

        In fact, maybe he still is, because the man doesn’t friggin’ age.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          And second fiddle to Spike.

          • Mike Hirsch

            I am not a Spuffy fan.

          • Alkanarra

            We’re all about Riley around these parts.

            Said no one ever.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Riley’s only good line on the show:
            People say they’re recycling. They’re not recycling.

            Also, Buffy could just not need to be with a guy. That’s a perfectly valid option for her!

          • Alkanarra

            Preach it, Mike.

          • Mike Hirsch

            I mean, it’s only the reason why Becoming, Part 2 is so goddamned PERFECT.

          • Violina23

            Definitely a top 10 episode… arguably top 5

          • Blurry Denzel

            I think I like it most when she wasn’t with anyone though I think Angel was the best of the bunch.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I don’t see you as a big Buffy fan, though.

            JK!

          • Violina23

            Me neither.

          • Hated that.

        • purplerockandy

          Oh, he aged all right. Look at young Angel. Now look at the ancient SEAL team guy. He looks like young Angel was stung by a bunch of bees (although less so than final Angel seasons Boreanaz, who really let himself go).

          • Violina23

            He looks like a baby for, maybe, 2 seasons, arguably 3. By the time Angel started, he basically froze in time. Much like the character he played.

      • DrVanNostrand

        It’s about the oldest SEAL ever, apparently.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          “Back when I was a rookie we had wooden snorkles!”

    • forever1267

      It’s called “Seal Team” and I did notice a lot of healthy guns walking about.

  • Violina23

    I just need to come here and yell again about the misuse of the word “blindside”.

    IF THE PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE A TARGET IT IS NOT A BLINDSIDE!

    Thank you, have a pleasant evening.

    • It may have been a blindside though because Ashley did not see it coming.

      • Violina23

        Yes, that was a legitimate blindside. But every single other thing they CALLED a blindside that episode, was not.

        • purplerockandy

          I mean, I’m HOPING Lauren didn’t see it coming. She should have, but I’m guessing she didn’t.

          • Hornacek

            Once Ben played his idol last week, Lauren should have instantly known she was going, since Ben had earlier said “I’m voting for Lauren.”

          • purplerockandy

            Sure. And Ben playing an idol blindsided her.

          • Hornacek

            Once Ben played his idol, there was no way for her to know she was going home!

          • I think Lauren knew.

          • Hornacek

            She should have. I’d have to watch it again but the editing seemed to indicate that she only reacted once they got to the final vote.

          • Towards the middle of the vote reveal, she put her bag around her shoulder because she was expecting more votes than just his.

          • Violina23

            I think if you use the word “chopping block” in reference to yourself, it’s automatically not a blindside.

  • PurpleTally

    I’m still livid that Ben was allowed to play the HII before the vote.
    I think he still would have played it after the vote for the same result, but, when we’ve heard HII rules before, it’s to be played after the votes have been cast, before the votes are read. This eliminates people’s abilities to bluff with a fake idol, and it changes the ways idols work.
    If you’re going to flood the game with idols, at least follow the damn rules of how they work.

    • gouis

      I for one am OK with people making up rules on the fly. Why not mix it up?

      • Yeah, I’m sure it’ll be a point of discussion this week. But my gut reaction is that I’m fine with it. (Meaning that I’m fine with it being allowed. More discussion to come on whether it should be done.)

        • Violina23

          I don’t love it, but I could be OK with someone handing the idol to Jeff before the vote. However, he absolutely should NOT confirm or deny that it’s legit until after voting.

        • gouis

          Jeff LOVES when people stretch the rules. And as long as no one calls them on it it always goes through.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I don’t necessarily like it, but I’m fine with it.

        • Diego Armando

          I’m fine with it too, since it forced Ben to give up the ability to nullify votes against him. He used his Idol like the first Idol Gary had in Guatemala. It kept him immune and disrupted the Tribal, but it was the same as him having an Immunity Necklace for this vote.

    • Alkanarra

      Eh, the moment he handed it to Jeff it wouldn’t have mattered. Even if Probst says “sorry, you have to wait,” I don’t think anyone would believe Ben had balls enough to attempt to play a fake before the vote in the lone hope that Jeff would shoot it down.

      Though with this cast….

      • PurpleTally

        I don’t think it mattered in the moment. I think it matters overall.
        With all of the shit with Cirie and Sarah and the fine print on the advantage last season, you’d think they’d at least follow basic HII rules.

        • Alkanarra

          Fair enough, just pointing out that in this specific case it would be irrelevant. Now, if Ben had done this and it sets that precedent that the idol will never be revealed then it actually *helps* people who try to play fake idols before the vote in the hope that it gives them more credibility. Now some future player can’t use my bluff strategy because they know there’s a possibility of Probst declaring idols legitimate/illegitimate ahead of the vote.

          … so yeah, I guess I agree with you.

        • Diego Armando

          Jeff will always take the most potentially entertaining option. He stopped the Cirie thing because Sarah and Troy pointed out the rules. This cast failed to realize that there was a vote missing at a Tribal Council, so I think there is a strong chance no one pointed out any caveats.

          • The fact that this crew didn’t realize that there was a vote missing is so frustrating to me to this very day.

    • wonderand

      So I’m fine with this play, but here’s a follow-up question: if Ben had “changed his mind” and asked for his idol back right before the vote, or IMMEDIATELY after the vote, before votes were read, do we think he would’ve gotten it? In other words, when does it actually count as played?

      (I hope the answer is yes, because my understanding of the HII rules matches yours, that the idol isn’t actually played until Jeff asks for HIIs after the vote, and I therefore LOVE this move as a one-time-use absolute garbage-genius way to deflect votes.)

      • PurpleTally

        I was thinking about that, too. And, holy shit, that would have been GREAT television.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I would NOT like this. You can’t give members of the production staff items for safe keeping. That would suck.

        • wonderand

          Eh, I think this is overstating it a bit. Within the confines of tribal, you’re not changing how safe the idol is. (Giving it to Jeff at, like, the immunity challenge and asking him to apply it at tribal would be bazoo but I’d kind of like to see someone try? But they should get shot down immediately.)

      • Maritimer

        Once its in Probst’s hands and he confirms it a real idol, its gotta be considered played. I’d say that if he HADN’T confirmed its reality, maybe, maybe I’d be okay with this

    • Dubious Rob

      I would have loved to hear Jeff say, “This IS a hidden immunity idol…but you played it at the wrong time and now it’s useless,” just to see Ben’s face go full Edgardo.

      • PurpleTally

        If that move was done by someone else that Probst liked less than Ben, I can see that happening. That’s another reason this makes me angry, because I can see this not being allowed if it was someone else.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I said the same thing, but you beat me to it! That would’ve been hilarious.

      • Hornacek

        And then Jeff throws it in the fire, landing on Lauren’s shell.

    • Ike1

      Good points. I hadn’t thought of that. Also, playing it before the votes are cast, and Jeff confirming that it’s a real idol, possibly messes up Devon’s game a little bit in terms of getting Ashley’s vote if he makes it to FTC. Devon could’ve voted for Ben plausibly if the idol hadn’t been played early, thus not pissing off Ash on her way out. But in this situation he had to vote for Ashley to save face with Crissy and Ryan.

    • purplerockandy

      How does it nullify the ability to bluff? Just, you know, DON’T hand your idol to Jeff before the vote.

      Also: fake idols are bullshit and thus we lose nothing.

      • PurpleTally

        Not even just the ability to bluff with fake idols but the ability to bluff by putting an idol around your neck in the hopes that no one will vote for you so you can get away with not playing it. Now, you can’t get away with it, because people will say “no, just go ahead and give it to Probst.”

        • i and 1

          Well, the player could still throw the uncertainty back to the others, “I’m playing it, but letting you doubt it for the sake of chaos or whatever”. I don’t know if that’s good, cause the CERTAIN PLAY option makes it a bit tougher maybe on some bluffers? Depends on what we might imagine in complex hypothetical group psychological interactions…? But this DOES add the option for the CERTAIN non-bluff play, which Ben chose (possibly very wisely) and so I am, for now, thinking this is a good thing.

          • i think its main appeal is it gives a good show for the jury. It’s a Natalie Anderson-esque power move, and in a season full of idol plays it’s going to stick in the mind more than a regular play would.

            Also, it dodges the accusation that he HAD to save himself twice with an idol. Nobody voted for him this time around…

        • purplerockandy

          And you can say no and dare them to try you.

          Also, the idol around the neck bluff was undone long before Ben did this. It is, in fact, the very reason why Ben did this.

    • I’m going to give Devon some props here: He kept pushing the issue by saying “I don’t think you’re going to play it,” and goaded Ben into playing it earlier. I don’t think this changes anything going forward. I actually didn’t think it was a *terrible* move on Ben’s part. I don’t think it was a *great* one either, but he didn’t go home so who am I to judge?

      • jniedj

        I actually think it was a solid choice by Ben. Had he waited, everyone probably still would have voted for Ben and we’d have gotten the same result. This way he opened up the opportunity that someone would vote for the “wrong” person. Had Devon voted for Mike, that gives Mike a reason to target Devon instead of Ben at the next tribal.

        • Yeah overall I’m not down on the move. There are some good things to be said about it. Largely situational though, not something other people should consider, especially earlier in the game when you’re less sure about how that many votes could go.

    • Hornacek

      I’d think that someone playing an idol during tribal discussion is something that the show hadn’t thought anyone would do. The rules probably only state an end point for the period when you can play an idol, not a starting point. Since this was the first time this has ever happened it probably took Jeff by surprise and he thought “Why not?”

      I could see them updating the idol’s rules in future seasons defining the specific point after which you can play an idol.

  • sharculese

    I’m five minutes into this episode and I already hope a skeleton with a broadsword comes through here and wreaks havoc.

    • sharculese

      Survivor: Metal Island

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        RIP Frank Frazetta.

      • Mike Hirsch

        I’d enjoy a Doctor Rockzo cameo.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I do s-s-s-swing votes!

          • Mike Hirsch

            And COCAINE!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Just upvoting the reference. Not cocaine in general.

    • Ryan hasn’t found a sword. Maybe next episode.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I just realized that this implies (1) Ryan has the physical strength to pick up a sword and (2) Ryan has the coordination to swing it without injuring himself.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Shit shit shit, I shouldn’t have put Ryan and “swing it” in the same sentence.

      • Isaa

        That’s gonna be the last hidden advantage.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Ryan wouldn’t be able to lift the sword.
          Edited to add: And just saw Taako’s post below me. NM.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Ryan would straight up snatch that bastard from the stone! Edgic, Mike! He’s Obvious King Arthur!

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I thought Ben was King Arthur.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That does complicate things.

      • sharculese

        I think they made a rule about it after that one challenge with Courtney in China.

  • Dubious Rob

    Remember when Survivor was more about people navigating complex social relationships with strangers than about who could find the most magic trinkets in the sand? Good times, good times.

    • gouis

      Yeah Africa is totally a better season than Heroes vs. Villains.

      • Dubious Rob

        I’m not saying idols and other advantages don’t add value and a layer of complexity to the show, but there has to be a balance, right? Re-burying the idol every time it gets used turns the show primarily into an idol hunt and shortchanges other aspects of it.

        • gouis

          Still gotta win that jury vote. And no one has ever won by saying “look at all the trinkets I got”

          • Mike Holloway.

          • gouis

            Those weren’t about the trinkets. It was about the physical act. Also those other people were literal monsters.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Tony

          • gouis

            HOW DARE YOU

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Tom Westman
            Suck it SNP

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I hate Tom Westman.

          • gouis

            Now that’s a @BarbaraTheWitch:disqus level take.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            He’s not a decent person.

          • gouis

            Unlike that red pill hero Ryan.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            He’s twice the man you’ll ever be and has twice the pole you’ve ever had

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That’s a cruel and uninformed statement and it’s poorly punctuated, so I will ignore it.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            I’m 18 you think I use punctuation!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Now I think you’re a child that hides behind the anonymity of the internet and makes basic, unfounded accusations from the safety of your own bedroom.

          • DrVanNostrand

            It’s been established as canon on this site that the size of Ryan’s member is normal bellhop size.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Guess why i posted that then

          • Dubious Rob

            I don’t hate him, but I do think he’s one of the most overrated winners.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Wow, I think Tom is a strong top tier winner. I’m curious to why you think he’s overrated.

          • Dubious Rob

            I binge-watched Palau not that long ago, and I was underwhelmed by Tom’s game. Sure, he won a bunch of immunities, but lots of winners have done that. His tribe coasted to the merge, so his strategic skills weren’t tested until late in the game. His leadership was often domineering. I also found what he did to Ian to be really ugly and manipulative, and not in an entertaining way. His final tribal revealed him to be a hypocrite, which Coby rightfully called him out for. People say he’s likable, but I think he comes off as arrogant. I think Tom benefits a lot from his privilege as a handsome, older white male. I don’t think he’s a bad winner, by any means, but I don’t see how he’s a better winner than, say, Todd or Sophie. I’d put him about the same as Aras.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I wholeheartedly endorse this comment.

          • sharculese

            “Better winner than Todd” is a pretty high bar.

          • Dubious Rob

            Depends on who you ask…I’m one of the few who thinks Amanda should have won China.

          • sharculese

            I don’t. Amanda is good at a lot of Survivor stuff, but she’s not great at dealing with people outside her core alliance. At the end of the day, you win Survivor by getting to the end and making people okay with losing to you, and Amanda is good at the former but not the latter.

          • Dubious Rob

            I absolutely agree, although I didn’t think Todd was that much better at that.

          • I would argue that out of the three people she lost to in the end, she is the best at managing those outside her core alliance.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I am on record saying Amanda is an All Time Great Survivor player, like she’s Top 10. She played two unbelieveably strong games, she just sucks at FTC. She had a really good arguement to win both seasons she made it to FTC, she just could not articulate that argument because she is not good at that.

          • I love Amanda. But she’s a classic example of how women are often taught to appease and make apologies, even when they don’t need to, rather than standing up for themselves.

          • Kemper Boyd

            100%

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            China was a season that somehow didn’t get spoiled for me despite having seen it almost last. I didn’t think he was gonna win. Somehow thought it was Amanda, who I thought deserved it

          • Dubious Rob

            We are eerily in sync.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You should probably seek therapy.

          • sharculese

            I would have been perfectly fine with Amanda winning. She did a lot of thing right. Todd just did the things that matter most better.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Can’t arguing with those!

          • sharculese

            I also think that, much like JT with Stephen, Todd managed to set things up where the jury was angrier at Amanda than him for things that both of them did.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That seems right.

          • Diego Armando

            I thought that was a low one.

          • sharculese

            I’m going to keep talking about how great Todd is until everyone concedes that I’m right.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Okay then. You’re right. Everybody says so.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Todd did to Amanda what Cochran did to Dawn. Both those women were far more strategically important than their male partners but their male partners could talk and were expected to have been the decision maker.

          • the sky is falling

            Once you get them on Todd, I will push Phillip Shepphard through.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Absolutely Tom benefits from his privilege. As for the rest of the points. I think the coasted on large part because of his leadership and challenge skills and planning. He was in a nice majority spot even if his tribe didn’t win. The two times he wasn’t immuned he does great to keep Caryn on his side and later use rocks as a way to keep safe (I know Ian plays a huge part in the latter). I think Tom had real feelings about Ian plotting against him along with it being manipulative for his gains. I don’t find it as ugly but that arc is so fascinating to me so maybe that’s why I look at it different. I can’t point to any mistakes he made but yeah he was probably arrogant.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I like You Dubious Rob. I don’t love Westman, I’m not a huge fan of manly man macho bullshit and he won on that.

          • Hornacek

            Counterpoint: Tom killed a shark.

          • Now here’s a take I can get behind.

          • Dubious Rob

            I do think it helped Sarah’s final tribal resume quite a bit.

        • Dubious Rob

          I also think that it adds some weight to the decision to play an idol or not play it if there’s no guarantee another one is just going to be buried right away.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I wonder then though, if everyone knows that it won’t immediately be rehidden, if an idol play truly just delays the inevitable. Bc outside of winning the necklace, there’s no guarantee of safety for the idol player. I think that might go too far the other way and make for super boring gameplay.

    • the sky is falling

      I could be wrong but it seems like they are introducing idols and advantages far too late in the game recently. it could just be that they are getting played more, but I am firmly against a new idol being introduced in the episode before the finale.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Amanda found her secret idol at final six way back in Micronesia. Parvati (allegedly) found one at five, but didn’t bother keeping it because she had no use for it. Micronesia was only the third season modern idols were in the game.

        • Thank you for the “allegedly”. I want to see the footage of Parvati finding that idol.

  • Marlin M.
    • gouis

      I mean I find it more entertaining than last season?

    • sharculese

      Rob doesn’t like Cook Islands or China, so…

      • gouis

        Rob has bad opinions and weirdly doesn’t understand how Survivor works.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Then why is he one of the most legendary winners of all time?

      • Max_Jets

        Rob likes China (ranked it 11th out of 30th), and is correct about Cook Islands.

    • God bless Rob, but sometimes he’s wrong.

      • Prom King

        * often wrong

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      Rob is a suck up and I hate elf

      • PurpleTally

        Fuck Elf.
        Finally someone else who understands!

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          I love you now

      • Mike Hirsch

        Such a one-joke movie.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I am now curious to find out what y’all’s top Xmas movie is. Obvs, Home Alone takes the top spot, but what comes after it?

        • sharculese

          Is The Phantom Menace a Christmas movie?

          • Taako From Teevhii

            No, it is not.

          • sharculese

            What about Bad Santa?

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I don’t see how Bad Santa isn’t an Xmas movie

          • gouis

            Fuck me Santa, fuck me Santa…

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Sweet Jews for Jesus!

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Lots of red and green Christmas lights

          • gouis

            Wait do you actually like The Phantom Menace?

          • sharculese

            I’m going to leave an air of mystery about this one.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            To quote Justin McElroy, “You can park outside, but we all know you drove there.”

          • Mike Hirsch

            I like that this is now how I will think of you, in a Schroedinger’s Cat kind of way.

          • sharculese

            I am willing to allowing my appreciation or non-appreciation of The Phantom Menace exist in a perpetual superposition. It adds to my mythos.

          • Violina23

            I…. didn’t hate the Phantom Menace. It was not good, though.

            *runs and hides*

          • Hornacek

            As bad as the film is, the lightsaber battle is awesome.

            There was an AVClub article this week that revealed that Liam Neeson sitting down and meditating when separated from Darth Maul by the laser doors was an “ad lib” by him to give his character something to do while waiting for the laser doors to open.

            Also, Ray Park wasn’t sure what Maul should be doing during that scene, and someone on set told him “Did you ever see tigers at the zoo? Walking back and forth, looking at you as if they wanted to leap out and eat you?” So he does that while Neeson is meditating.

        • “The Ref.” And I can still watch it because I ALWAYS knew Kevin Spacey was a shitbag.

        • PurpleTally

          1. White Christmas
          2. Literally any made for TV Christmas movie involving royalty
          3. Nativity

          • Something Quirky

            So you have seen The Christmas Prince? I keep reading about reactions to it.

          • PurpleTally

            Yes, and it’s incredible.

          • See, I can’t watch any tv movie involving royalty because I start to pick on inaccuracies.

        • Purplerockmatt

          Die Hard duh

          • gouis

            You sonofabitch

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Typing cat!

          • Hornacek

            How was this not the first response?

            (I don’t mean you were late responding, I mean whoever responded first should have said that movie)

        • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

          While you were sleeping or die hard

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Seriously though if you haven’t seen while you are sleeping you need to

        • Mike Hirsch

          All these anti-Die Hard weirdos have ruined that as a choice for me, so I’ll say either Rocky IV, Trading Places, Scrooge, or Gremlins.

          • gouis

            They’ve completely ruined the movie with their zealotry.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Have they? I think you’ll find it still holds up pretty well.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Trading Places is my #1 after Die Hard.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Gremlins is slighrly better than A Christmas Story. Although I am certain that @hornacek:disqus will have some stupid Canadian alternative to a decent holiday movie.

          • Mike Hirsch

            A Christmas Stoury.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Did you watch the Canadian version?

          • Mike Hirsch

            That was the joke, yeah.

          • wonderand

            (“A Christmas Storey” might be the actual joke?)

          • Mike Hirsch

            I’m going for the superfluous u.

          • wonderand

            I got that, but Americans also use “story” instead of “storey” for buildings, so there’s an actual spelling difference to build off of if you want it. Anyway! The “stoury” one made me chuckle, too, just trying too hard to be an international smart aleck.

          • Hornacek

            In the Canadian version, all of the sofas are replaced with chesterfields.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            A wonderful seasonal flick that centers on the constant suffering of children. I give it an A+.

          • “Eh, Christmas Story”

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I’ve only seen Gremlins once, when I was a child, and the way the dad died still fucking haunts me.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            The dad doesn’t die in Gremlins. The science teacher?

          • Hornacek

            I think @purplerockemma:disqus is talking about when Phoebe Cates’ describes how her father died on Christmas when she was a kid. That scene has to be one of the most messed up scenes in a movie aimed towards kids.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            You are correct, sir.

          • Hornacek

            I grew up seeing commercials for this Christmas film on CBC every December. What do you know – it’s a Canadian co-production!

            https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/movie/movie_poster/one-magic-christmas-1985/large_18p7Y8cywnlaZvoByh8auJyBYZc.jpg

        • Alkanarra

          This game is way tougher when you’re Jewish and want to rep your people. If only Woody Allen did more Christmas movies….

          I’ll just play it safe and say Spaceballs.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Upvoted for everything besides Woody Allen.

          • Alkanarra

            He’s really skated by this whole Harvey Weinstein / Kevin Spacey / Roy Moore thing somehow when there just *has* to be stuff there. Aside from, you know, the super obvious one that I guess we’re all just ignoring?

          • Blurry Denzel

            He has a new movie too. Mind boggling.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I’ve been boycotting Woody Allen and Roman Polanski for a loooooong time.

          • Violina23

            Funny, you don’t look Druish…

        • DrVanNostrand

          I’m ambivalent about Xmas movies…. except ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’. Seriously, fuck that movie.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            If I’m going to sit through a three-hour movie, it better involve Captain America kicking Nazi and/or extraterrestrial ass.

          • Hornacek

            I love the scene in Cheers where everyone’s watching IAWL at the bar and they’re talking about how unrealistic and corny it is. Norm says “As a former accountant, I can tell you that when the books are due, the whole town doesn’t come to save you.” Then the film ends and everyone in the bar starts crying and making excuses. “I got something in my eye”, etc.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            The last time I watched it (admittedly a long time ago) I was really struck by how bleak a movie it is up until the last 10 minutes. It probably doesn’t help that we’re all living in Pottersville now.

          • Hornacek

            Hey, “GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS” on a weeknight. That sounds pretty good.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Not exactly a movie, but Emmett Otter’s Jugband Christmas.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Nightmare rules!

        • Violina23

          Keep the change, you filthy animal

        • Prom King

          Black Christmas

        • Diego Armando

          The best recent Christmas movie is Arthur Christmas.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          I love Elf, but the only true great Christmas movie is A Muppet’s Christmas Carol.

          Also I haven’t read people’s answers yet, but to anyone who says Die Hard: ya boring.

          • purplerockandy

            The anti-Die Hard-as-a-Christmas movie people are the true freethinkers.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I don’t think it’s necessarily not a Christmas movie, I just don’t think naming it as a favorite makes a person as interesting as they often think it does.

          • purplerockandy

            I 100% agree with this, btw.

          • Hornacek

            John McLane is Santa Claus.

            He arrives by a magic sled (jet plane).
            He sneaks into the house (Nakotomi Plaza)
            He has helper Elves (Powell and Argyle)
            He’s making a list (number of hostages
            He’s deciding who’s been bad or good.

            IT ALL FITS!

        • Maritimer

          How the Grinch Stole Christmas (the animated one)

    • DrVanNostrand

      How? If I still listened to RHAP, I would be furious.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      I’m procrastinating and pulled up that podcast a minute ago. NOPE. RHAP is garbage. This season is garbage. I’d vote Fabio if that was a choice. There, I said it.

      • Kemper Boyd

        That’s how he won, just a solidly nice dude in a season of idiot arseholes. (this is also how Bob won).

  • Spergatory

    This week, in Devon Talk;
    – Keeping cool at tribal council despite Ben trying to get him riled.
    – Making good and damn sure Ben’s idol is played.
    – Letting Ben play his idol and still not voting for Dr. Mike, making Ben look less powerful in front of the jury.
    – Friendship ended with ASHLEY. Now RYAN AND CHRISSY are my best friends, AGAIN!
    – Every single person left in this game has tried to work with Devon at some point. Most everyone OUT of the game has tried to work with Devon at some point. Devon is the sun around which this game is orbiting.
    – STILL NOT BEING TARGETED. Dude literally came back to camp saying “Ben, you fucked up and I am coming for that ass” and Ben’s like “Man, I really want Mike to go home (but I’mma vote Ashley because whatever).” I’m convinced he is using some kind of hypnosis. Every single person in this game wants to work with him. Nobody sees this seven foot tall bronze-colored Disney prince as a threat to win the game. It’s fascinating.

    • Upvoted for “seven foot tall bronze-colored Disney prince.”

      • Hornacek

        He’s the anti-Gaston.

        • He’s certainly not covered in hair, that’s for sure.

    • DrVanNostrand

      He’s a bright and beautiful light! OWD!

    • Prom King

      Nobody sees this seven foot tall bronze-colored Disney prince as a threat to win the game.

      Because he’s not actually a threat to win this game?

      But upvoted for Disney prince! Perfect description.

      • Spergatory

        If Devon is sitting next to Chrissy and Ryan, do you really think this jury is voting for either one of them?

        • And also, if Chrissy and Ryan aren’t sitting next to him, who else are they sitting next to? Heroic Idol-playing Marine Ben? Healer Mike, with a jury stacked with other healers?

        • Hornacek

          About the finale, Jeff has said that the viewers will go into the FTC rooting for one player, but will come out of it rooting for another player. In this situation of a Ryan/Chrissy/Devon final three, I could see us going into FTC rooting for Devon, but something happens (Devon tanks it, Chrissy or Ryan pull off a Todd-like performance) that has us rooting for one of the other two.

          • Spergatory

            That could be, but it seems to me like the edit has been trying a lot harder to shove Chrissy down our throats than Devon. I think they want us to be rooting for Chrissy, at least a little bit.

          • I cannot see that happening. I can see a situation where somehow Ben and Devon are against each other and Jeff assumes we’d root for Ben, but are convinced to root for Devon. However, that would just be Jeff incorrectly assuming that I’d be rooting for Ben.

          • Hornacek

            I agree that if the situation Jeff describes does happen, we have to take into account that the people that Jeff assumes the viewers would be and would not be rooting for are not the same as the ones viewers would and would not actually be rooting for.

            It’s like we’re translating from Japanese to English but it’s being translated to an intermediary language in the middle and we don’t know what that language is.

        • Prom King

          Those would be the two people he has a shot against, for sure. But I don’t see him getting to the final three.

          I could be eating my words on this of course, but it’s the edit that makes me think he’s not getting there. Especially the focus on the multiple times he’s said questionable things like “Golly gee, I didn’t realize so-and-so player was as good as me!” when he hasn’t actually done much to be even considered a good player.

          • Spergatory

            The only player in the final five who hasn’t received a single vote against him at a tribal council. Is both literally and figuratively a massive physical threat but has gone completely ignored because he isn’t winning immunities (because he’s never needed them). Is nigh-universally beloved by everyone in and out of the game, and literally every single person from top 8 on has actively tried to court his favor and work with him. Crafted two separate yet equally incredible deceptions that allowed a minority of four to take over the game at nine unchallenged by the other five without using a single idol or advantage. Said deception had the bonus effect of making his biggest adversary look like a total snake, alienating him from his day 1 ally and painting a glowing neon target on his back that is not going away. Is currently positioned in a final three deal with two of the least liked/respected people in the game.

            I’d say Devon is a damn good player.

          • Prom King

            – I will agree regarding the lack of votes cast against him, and also add that he’s always voted with the majority (as someone else mentioned)

            – Not a massive physical threat by any means. He almost won an immunity but gave it up to Ashley. Chrissy is more of a challenge threat

            – Is he universally beloved, really? I don’t see evidence for that and I don’t think of Devon getting Jesus music and camera shots as evidence. Ryan once had an alliance with him, recently reactivated. Ben once liked him but I doubt that’s true now. Betrayed Ashley. Joe actively disrespects Devon’s game. I think there’s a difference between likable and universally beloved

            – He crafted the Ben Double Agent deception, which was fun but unnecessary due to Lauren’s extra vote (as Ben pointed out). What other deception did he craft? The Core Four alliance was Lauren’s idea, not his

            – I don’t see anyone recognizing him as a strategic threat, and what moves he’s made (personally I don’t think he’s made any) aren’t being seen by anyone

            – Putting a target on Ben’s back also makes Ben look like an underdog to the jury, in addition to once being King Ben

            – How in the world is Ryan one of the least liked/respected people in the game? We’ve seen no evidence to support that. Ben smearing him for one physical challenge is not evidence enough that everyone dislikes or doesn’t respect him

            I’d say Devon is an okay player. Not bad, not particularly impressive either.

          • Spergatory

            “Which was unnecessary”

            Devon’s deception let them take over the game without using Lauren’s vote or risking having that vote negated by a lucky idol play. It allowed them to proceed into the future with that vote still available, and it could’ve really come in handy if she hadn’t self-destructed so spectacularly, but there’s no real way he could’ve predicted that. It was a stellar plan executed perfectly and Devon is the one who came up with it. None of the others were thinking on that level.

            “What other deception did he craft?”

            The fake vote split involving Lauren’s extra vote that Joe, the guy who supposedly “openly disrespects” Devon’s game, flatly stated was the only reason he didn’t flip on them at that tribal council, thus giving Devon credit for Joe’s own elimination. Devon used the idea of Lauren’s vote better than Lauren used the actual thing.

            Ryan has done nothing. Have you actually watched this season? Dude is seen as nothing but Chrissy’s right hand and everyone in the game knows it.

            Joe let Devon go first at the spaghetti reward to curry favor with him.
            Dr. Mike and Joe both approached Devon privately in a secret scene to try and get him on their side.
            Lauren picked Devon first at the reward, and given that she had no idea how many slots she would get, this indicates that she wanted to work with him the most, that he was a key part of her plans.
            Ryan approached Devon on day one and decided to bring him in on the Super Idol.
            Ben approached Devon completely unbidden to get Devon on his side and try to pull him away from Ryan.
            Ashley immediately wanted to work with Devon at the swap and forgave him for voting her out literally seconds after she walked off the tribal council set (watch her Ponderosa).
            And now Chrissy has offered Devon a final three deal with her and Ryan.
            And all this isn’t even taking into account the absolutely glowing terms that the people voted out have used to describe Devon in exit interviews. People fucking love this man.

            Again, Devon hasn’t won any challenges but he’s never needed to. He doesn’t care about individual immunity because he has never been targeted. But he’s been a huge part in several team challenge wins, including this last episode, so he’s clearly very physically capable.

            Dude’s good. Sorry if you can’t see that.

          • Prom King

            I remain unconvinced. There seems to be a lot of after-the-fact justification happening in your justification, and that’s working backwards to prove your point. But hey, I support the whimsical dreams of dreamers, so please do carry on.

            Have you actually watched this season?

            Yes. Except for the most recent one, I’ve watched each episode twice.

          • Max_Jets

            I don’t mean to make this a 2:1 debate, but I did forget to add in my Devon hype comments: Devon calling out that just because Ben showed his idol at tribal didn’t mean that Ben was going to play it forced Ben’s idol to get flushed.

          • Prom King

            …but that still didn’t particularly help Devon either. Ben was no doubt going to play it anyway, because only a fool wouldn’t, so it wasn’t necessarily flushed due to Devon. It was going to happen either way. So to me it came across as a desperate attempt to try to get hold of a train that Ben had just hijacked. In the end, I think Ben continued to have a better look in front of the jury than Devon, who has demonstrated no accomplishments – or even panache – to the jury. They may still vote for him because he’s a nice guy and they like him better than others… but I can’t see them seeing Devon as someone who brought much strategy to the game, and especially not someone who made any visible moves of any consequence. Instead they saw this, and that’s following last episode when they learned that he gave up immunity for a backrub while simultaneously laying bare who his top alliance partners were. Not good looks.

            What I took away from that whole business, at least when trying to look at it through the jury’s eyes, is that Devon tried to show that Ben was being backed into a corner, and then (1) Ben clowned him with the whole “but what have you done in this game?” comment, (2) Ben then surprised him with an idol, (3) Devon then was forced to vote out his perceived closest ally, who then (4) snubbed his hug because he betrayed her, right after embracing Ben. And then the viewers got to see his smug expressions as if he thought he had actually accomplished something, when we the viewers know that it was actually Chrissy’s plan – and one that he wasn’t that much on board with anyway.

            No worries about 2:1. (And I prefer your way of disagreeing with me anyway.)

          • Max_Jets

            That’s true, it’s a leap to say he flushed it, though I think Ben had a chance of trying to delay his idol use and cause chaos in his misdirect a la Malcolm in Philippines. Devon’s spiel ended this as a possibility at least. I also don’t think Devon voting out Ashley is necessarily bad – if say, Ashley wins immunity (which is likely) at final 5 then Devon is in a lot of danger. But Ben is probably still there, so I guess this scenario is close to irrelevant…just trying to look at Devon in the best possible light as I am prone to do!

            I like your view of how the jury is thinking. It’s not something I think about a lot, even though it’s obviously super important. I definitely think Devon has a good chance of getting the Hannah treatment – someone I also like to think I would have voted for at FTC but of course would never know. Her answers explained everything the jury had problems with in regards to her decision making, but they had already decided she wasn’t playing logically. To me watching, Devon is far and away the smarter player over Ben. But to change people’s perception of him within an hour or two would be very difficult if he is not letting the jury know. Will he have any opportunity to change that in the next two rounds – keeping the target off him with a low profile and “dumb” facade until the late game when he really needs to impress? Would recent jurors like Lauren and Ashley be able to change that perception of him at Ponderosa – he showed them more capable strategy than what the rest of the jurors had seen. The format change might also work to his benefit.

            I also don’t think Ben looked very good in front of the jury either, being shut down for his plan to take out Mike.

          • I think Devon would have a decent chance to make his case to the jury at FTC – more than Hannah did – because Devon is already very well-liked. People are more likely to be looking for excuses to give him the money. Hannah, on the other hand, had annoyed people, and was up against the popular Adam (no matter what the edit might have presented, we know from exit interviews that Adam WAS very well liked by his castmates, and had seeded the jury with secret allies).

            I do think it’s possible to change the jury’s mind at FTC, but only if the jury is already looking for reasons to listen.

      • Not a threat to win? HOW. DARE. YOU.

        • Prom King

          Okay, he’s a threat to win against Chrissy and Ryan. Although I fear I may be undervaluing Chrissy. Still love you, Chrissy!

    • I really liked how he dealt with Ben’s ‘what have you done in the game?’ at tribal council. A lot of people would have been provoked into giving a list of all their accomplishments, and thus a list of reasons why they should be voted out. He managed not to say anything, whilst still making it clear that not saying something was a strategic decision rather than a case of there being nothing to say.

      Also voting out Ashley gives him a really great shot of making final 3. Chrissy and Ryan will have to go with either him, Ben or Mike and he probably, somehow, looks like the best option.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        I thought that was a good call by him, but the jury didn’t seem to take it well, and convincing people at FTC can be tough. But reaction shots can be editing so who knows.

    • Maritimer

      I *think* he can rescue Ashley’s jury vote too, basically by admitting the way that all went down, he couldn’t save her…especially if its Chrissy and Ryan at F3 with him

      • Spergatory

        You can see from her Ponderosa that Ashley calmed down almost instantly after she gave her last words. She basically says she’d have done the same to Devon if she felt she had to.

        • Maritimer

          Oh, good. That makes me feel better

  • Marlin M.

    Idk if anybody noticed but there was a conversation between Ryan, Chrissy and Mike. Devon was shown as if he was in that conversation but he clearly wasn’t there. Whats up with that?

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Devon is losing.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        So is Ryan

        • sharculese

          So is America.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            At least yesterday worked out

          • sharculese

            I was really just talking about Survivor.

          • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

            Still works

          • DrVanNostrand

            The fact that NOT electing a child molester is considered a huge win these days is a sign that we all lost a long time ago.

          • Blurry Denzel

            I get what your saying and I agree that the fact that electing a child molester was even a possibility was depressing as fuck. Idk, maybe I was expecting the worse and when it didn’t happen I was happy and when I saw how black voters, especially black women, turned out to vote, I was proud. I do not get to feel proud a lot these days.

          • StormofCuteness

            Totally agree!

          • Hornacek

            In some states that would be true, but the fact that a Democrat won in Alabama is a huge win.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Seven days, my friend! The bellhop takes the million!

          • Hornacek

            This is the sequel to The Ring that none of us asked for.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Everyone’s losing and then we’re going to have to start over from the beginning. I hope you’re happy.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Ghost Island is just, every time they vote someone out, they sub in one of these people.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          That’s my plan for next year!

      • purplerockandy

        I like how you’re still sticking to your troll shtick as though anyone is particularly invested in the outcome of this season anymore.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Troll shtick? I’m sticking with my original stance that Ryan wins!

          I am kind of a troll, though. It does make me sad. But then I think about Outcasts League and all is well!

          • Prom King

            I love the bellhop shtick because when or where will I ever see that again. And that shtick made Ryan more memorable to me than Ryan just being Ryan.

            Also I am invested in Ben or Chrissy winning! Go, either of them, go!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I like to think that any PRP people will make a conscious effort to take care of their hoppers when they travel from now on.

          • Prom King

            I will be extravagant in my tipping!

          • Blurry Denzel

            They tend to not have those with Airbnb.

          • Honestly, yes. Though I’m more of a bed and breakfast traveler than a hotel traveler.

    • Oh, I noticed it.It looked really weird because those three were so close to each other and Devon’s shot was ten feet away.

  • DrVanNostrand

    1. If anyone should appreciate the problem with declaring “Mission Accomplished!” at final five, it’s an Iraq war veteran. That said, from an edit perspective, things are looking up for him.

    2. Chrissy is campaigning really hard for this season’s Wet Blanket Award. How dare Ben express some joy at hustling his way through another TC! You’ve been very naughty, Ben! Very naughty!

    3. Edit: And how could I forget: John and Mattmark were both right on the money in predictions. But Markmatt carried the day!

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      It’s hard to think of Chrissy as a superfan.

      • sharculese

        I can’t imagine a superfan turning out to be an asshole who constantly thinks everyone else is doing Survivor wrong for dumb reasons.

        Or John writing a pre-season hype post about such a person.

    • Maritimer

      Ben had a really good episode. I don’t know what to think anymore about the winner. Its down to him and Devon though I think

  • sharculese

    God this is like Survivor: Middle School Cafeteria.

  • scrooge mcduck

    I honestly thought that when Ben stood up prior to voting he was going to throw the Idol in the Fire…this season

    • DrVanNostrand

      I was hoping that Probst would throw it in the fire and say, “This immunity idol does not count. He might as well have walked up and given it to a cameraman, because this is not how idols are played.”

      Not really though. This was probably the most entertaining outcome.

    • Well, if strategic genius Mike can throw HALF an idol in the fire…

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    Poor lil Mike and his lil face when Ben was targeting him 🙁
    If I had to put money on one person as an FTC loser right now, I’d go with Mike. Who at this point doesn’t want Mike in their final 3??

    • DrVanNostrand

      He’s really the winner this season deserves.

      • Mike Hirsch

        You either get voted out a hero, or play long enough to win as a villain.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      In an F3 with Ryan and Chrissy I think Dr. Mike has a very good shot at the three Healers’ votes plus Ashley’s.

      • Kemper Boyd

        He might well get Lauren and Ben’s there too.

    • I wish Chrissy would pull a Cirie and get rid of Mike.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    I’m wondering if Buster Olney has lost his touch and gone Full Nightengale. Both are reporting that the Angels are interested in Chase Headley. I don’t doubt that SD wants to flip him, but if LA is looking for an actual upgrade at 3B and for cheap, well Headley is a whiff on both counts. Then again, apparently the “White Sox are in prelim talks for Machado” had legs, so wtf do I know.

    • Marlin M.

      Chase Headley is okay.

    • Blurry Denzel

      Speaking of Machado, should I pre-order is Yankee jersey?

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I think he’s destined for St. Louis.

        • Blurry Denzel

          I’m a Yankee fan, so I’m greedy and want it all. I don’t think Machado is coming here though.

    • sharculese

      I know this isn’t baseball, but fuck it, baseball isn’t happening right now and football is – roommate texted me late last night (normal time for her, since she’s in CA now) to tell me about the Hannukah party she went to where everyone was “celebrating the Alabama win.”

      I saw it bleary-eyed and still half asleep this morning, and my immediate thought was “but… the playoffs haven’t started yet and where did she even find a bunch of Alabama fans in California and isn’t she rooting for Clemson?”

      It was like ten before the gears clicked and I realized what she was actually talking about.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        College football on a Tuesday nigh should’ve been your first clue that something was up. But were you not obsessively watching the needle? That’s good. That’s probably healthy.

        • sharculese

          I wasn’t obsessively watching the needle because I’m not giving clicks to the NYT until they admit their coverage of the Presidential election was fucking garbage, but I was refreshing 538.

          Also, I had an early morning appointment to take my car in, so I was very sleepy, and also having UGA in the playoffs is distracting my focus.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Speculating here, but was there a reason the editors cut out Ben getting the idol? Or was it that the camera operators couldn’t keep pointing their cameras at Ben without giving him away?

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      And is this the first time that an idol has been played without us seeing the person find it?

      • Cough Amanda and Gary

        • Harvey Dent

          It might be a “playing it this episode!” thing since Australian Survivor did it this season too

        • DrVanNostrand

          That idol was most definitely on the ground.

    • There were a lot of weird editorial choices here.

    • sharculese

      Probably. Tony said that one of the reasons there wasn’t more footage of him using the spy shack was that the camera crew was trying not to blow up his spot, so they wouldn’t point a camera at what he was doing.

      And then on the other hand you have the ‘fucking stick’ where Eliza said she knew something was wrong because every camera operator on the island came thundering towards her to make sure they got the shot of Jason giving it to her.

      • I also thought that a lot of Ben’s first idol search was staged.

    • purplerockandy

      This is a good theory, although at F6, every player might have a dedicated camera person.

      • Maritimer

        and one generally trained on camp/shelter I would think, which could pick up some shot, even if its not a good one

    • I imagine if a camera operator had been lying down to get a shot underneath the shelter someone might have started to wonder if something was going on, yes.

      • I am trying to remember how they filmed Wentworth getting the idol and I cannot. I want to say that they had a camera person go under when she went under the shelter.

        • Hornacek
          • Only idiots would watch YouTube highlights of Cambodia.

            Cut to my viewing history which include multiple videos of the wentworth idol play.

          • Hornacek

            Hey, I cued it up to the exact moment she shimmies underneath the shelter.

          • Oh…I might watch it later.

    • Maritimer

      Given the way the idol was played, I think it may have been a suspense thing, though your theory is a good one

  • Salz

    So do Chrissy and Ryan actually want to go to the end with Devon instead of Ben or Mike??? (I honestly haven’t paid enough attention to answer this question)

    • I think both of them think that Devon is the goat.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        That would be crazy! Now I hope it happens!

    • Roswulf

      At this point, if I’m Crissy I might favor taking Devon over Ben (though certainly not Mike). Once you talk about someone as the biggest threat enough, and the person who can’t make it to the end, you can’t let them get there, even if they are the WORST. The egos of people on the jury are now invested in the idea that taking Ben to the end is a stupid decision.

      Of course, I think Crissy loses in ANY final three, but that she can’t change. With Devon and Ryan she can at least TRY an “I WAS IN CONTROL ALL ALONG!” pitch.

      • Diego Armando

        Chrissy’s only winning hope involved Ben and Ashley. Oops.

        • purplerockandy

          JP and Ryan.

          • Roswulf

            Who?

    • Maritimer

      I took that at face value, which is a real bad read by Chrissy and Ryan. I think they both think people like them WAYYYY more than they do

    • Alkanarra

      I saw that as “we’re at reward together and need a third ally, so we’ll naturally present the ‘this is the Final Three’ thing because this happens every season” and it was taken to be serious because it just happened to play out that way after Ben’s idol.

      That being said, Mike has possible healer votes and Ben has the whole vet/underdog thing, so it’s not like she and Ryan have many other options. If you see Devon and Ashley as two peas in the same pod then I guess work with the one who already has a connection to Ryan.

      • I also think everyone genuinely likes Devon. Or, of the remaining players, Chrissy dislikes him the least. It’s not like they have a whole lot of options out there.

  • Blurry Denzel

    Ryan somehow has become the person I want to see win most besides Devon. I would not have expected that earlier this season. Not being seen or heard from as much is a good look for him.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      “Look, I’m a bellhop. Moving all of you jury members into Ponderosa is what I do for a living!”

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Look, I’m like a luggage porter. That’s what I do.

      • Blurry Denzel

        He would say some shit like that. He’s been practicing his FTC analogies since day one.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I would have to add something about virginity, though.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Depends on how graphic you want to get with the word “fuck.”

          • sharculese

            God, if there’s one Survivor record I would love to have it’s “dude who had the most cusses make it to air.”

            Actually, that’s second after, “first Survivor to wander away from the loved ones visit to go fuck in the woods.”

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Pedant alert: your second one is a superlative, not a record.

          • sharculese

            Did Happy Gilmore quibble about how it wasn’t technically a record that he was the only player ever to take off a skate and try to stab somebody? No? I didn’t think so.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Pedant alert: Fuck pedants!

      • Kemper Boyd

        Wouldn’t that have been Patrick’s line?

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    @purplerockjohn:disqus is going to be so whiney tomorrow!

  • Diego Armando

    My team is still intact.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      In pick four?

      • Diego Armando

        Yup.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Dang! That’s impressive! My Outcasts team is looking good!. I haven’t even looked to see who lost Ashley because I want it to be funny tomorrow

          • Diego Armando

            I think BBB also has an intact Pick 4.

          • Blurry Denzel

            You still gotta deal with Final Boss Emma.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Emma? Which one is that again?

          • Blurry Denzel

            Almost all of us according to that one quiz.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            No. I got a rock Matt.

          • Blurry Denzel

            You misspelled Mark.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Yeah, I got the “REPLY HAZY, TRY AGAIN” of test results.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I’m pretty sure they’re the same person.

          • Thanks for reminding me. With Chrissy peformance this week I got a spot in next year’s Champion League.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I haven’t looked to see who lost her either, all I know is that I’m sure to beat you SNP, there is nothing that can stop me now!

    • Roswulf

      Hey so are mine! They are having a delightful pre-jury trip!

    • StormofCuteness

      Just because you, like Chrissy, hate women. 😉

  • Diego Armando

    Funniest moment of the night:

    Mike: “That Idol play might even have been better than mine.”

    • Max_Jets

      My jaw dropped at that and I had to rewind immediately and I think it was actually Ryan that said that. So I went from “wow, it’s amazing how delusional Mike is” to “oh, it’s just Ryan making a joke,” which was disappointing and now I have rudely passed that disappointment on to you.

      • Something Quirky

        If it was Mike saying it, I’d hope it was in a joking manner. But if it wasn’t, I hope we hear him make an FTC speech.

  • Diego Armando

    When I was doing my watch of missing seasons, I listened to the commentary tracks of Australia. Jeff (Probst) and Colby did 2 of them in a bar. At one point Jeff said the following statement (as best as I remember): “A piece of advice to future Survivors; if you want to do things, never ask me if you can do it; I will likely have to turn you down. But if you do it without asking me, then we can let things play out.”

    • purplerockandy

      And a big reason for this isn’t anything sinister: it’s that you put Jeff in a spot to react in a live situation. Well timed aggression can work wonders.

    • Hornacek

      Better to beg for forgiveness than ask permission.

  • Prom King

    Another mildly entertaining episode, enjoyable but rather disappointing after the last three wonderful ones. Ah well. Fun tribal though. I love watching Ben and Chrissy at tribal, where they are at their best and worst. Please sweet Jesus let one of those two win, it would make this season for me. If one of the others win, that’s like KR all over again.

    Devon acting smug after voting out his friend was not a good look for him. People actually think he’s winning? That’s bizarre to me. The guy has literally done nothing of consequence in this game besides come up with Ben Double Agent plan. Which was fun, but also unnecessary.

    I’m sorta over Joe’s corny expressions in the jury. I’d rather have more shots of a stoic, mildly irritated, definitely bored Lauren. Also well over Dr. Mike.

    Speaking of corny, can’t Probst verbalize what the reward is in a way that is less like the verbal equivalent of clickbait? I’m tired of cringing over this every episode. Not every reward and not every word deserves to have its vowels extended so dramatically.

    But back to what’s good: I especially loved how Ben explained to Devon why he isn’t winning! That was awesome. Although at this point Devon probably imagines that blindsiding an ally is automatically some kind of big move, rather than what it actually was: falling in line with Chrissy and helping to enact what Chrissy does best: removing people that don’t like her.

    • Max_Jets

      “The guy has literally done nothing of consequence in this game besides come up with Ben Double Agent plan. Which was fun, but also unnecessary.”
      I don’t think we really know if it was necessary, but it did help keep Mike and Joe from wanting to flip to Chrissy and Ryan to form a 4 because they thought they would instead be forming a 5 with Ben. It also made it harder for Chrissy and Ryan to campaign for votes because they had no idea what was going on.
      Devon has voted in the majority at every tribal (not accomplished by anyone else in the game), has everyone wanting to work with him, came up with the fake split vote plan using Lauren’s extra vote at the tribal Joe went out – which according to Joe is what preventing him from flipping, just joined a new final 3 with someone he had already betrayed and who genuinely seems to want to move forward with him. Who has even done anything (positive) of more consequence than him?

      • Prom King

        You make good points (as usual). I particularly like you pointing out that Devon has voted in the majority at every tribal. I didn’t consider that and that’s something that shows a really socially aware player. Although I do think that Lauren’s extra vote made the original purpose of Devon’s plan sorta pointless (as Ben noted), it did have consequence with Joe. But then Joe did end up getting voted out, so still sorta pointless to me if they were going to target Joe anyway.

        Who has even done anything (positive) of more consequence than him?

        Ben: eliminated Jessica, Desi, Joe; found two hidden immunity idols and played both correctly

        Chrissy: eliminated Roark, Jessica, Ashley; won two individual immunities; formed lasting alliance with Ryan, and Andy’s favorite move this season, correctly did not play immunity first episode

        they both have significant debits to their games. In particular, Ben unnecessarily alienating Chrissy (and others) and Chrissy being blindsided by JP vote and of course alienating apparently literally everyone except Ryan. I like that about them though. Although those debits make sure they’re not making any top ten player list anytime soon, those mistakes make them fun and rich characters, to me at least.

        • Max_Jets

          I enjoy Ben as a character, but I don’t find it interesting to watch players win their way to the end through immunity. And I’ll even say that I don’t think this totally applies to Holloway (using his last name to avoid confusion), because I did find it interesting to watch the way Holloway (mostly) controlled the votes when he was immune. Ben had no one voting with him last week, and was unable to get people to accept his target (Doc) this week.

          Chrissy is probably my second biggest rooting interest at this point. She’s been pretty entertaining and did a great job this week. My problem with her winning though is that it ruins the structure of the season to me. She regained power because everyone (herself included) was a hot mess at final 7, so having that be the turning point to lead to her victory will sour it a bit for me. If she continues the way she was this week though, I won’t be mad at her taking it all.

          • Prom King

            But it’s more than just the wins themselves. I do think that immunity (and reward) wins and idols finds are both underrated by a lot of fans because physical and/or mental prowess in challenges and the ability to find saving graces like immunities should always be considered winning traits in a game called Survivor. Despite that, the appeal of Ben as a winner for me is in how he correctly played the idols, which is always especially impressive. What’s impressive about Ben this season is how nimble his game play has been. He doesn’t lock himself in to specific paths. That’s also why I loved Tony’s win and respected Sarah’s win despite not particularly enjoying her. Nimble players like Ben who jump in and out of different strategies always impress me.

            I think you should consider the structure and narrative after the season is over! That’s worked for me at least. It’s why I still dislike Nicaragua, still find KR compelling to think about despite disliking the winner and much about the season, and still love all my favorite seasons. I find out who the winner is and then think back on how that winner and the non-winner’s stories were told. Usually it adds up to something that makes sense. The only seasons that don’t hold up to my usual perspective are OW and RI, but I think that’s probably due to many characters who are either boring or so unbearable they are hard to watch.

          • Max_Jets

            I really enjoyed Ben’s idol play tonight, but no one is even pretending to work with him so his decisions to play them haven’t impressed me. It kind of represents the season in a nutshell – his success is a knock on everyone else and not a result of his own skill. I get the argument that getting immunity is just as valid as any other path to victory, but it’s not a skill I personally admire. I love social dynamics, and I love admiring people’s ability to outplay their opponents socially. I don’t care all that much if someone is good at puzzles or balancing or spotting idols.

            I should definitely wait to hold off judgment of the season’s structure, but I feel like I can already tell how I’ll feel about different outcomes. There is a lot we don’t know though, including how the jury will feel about the players at the end which can sometimes completely flip the way we see the game.

      • danomite10

        “Devon has voted in the majority at every tribal (not accomplished by anyone else in the game)….Who has even done anything (positive) of more consequence than him?”

        Ben is the only person to have been on the correct side of the vote at every tribal he’s been to. I’d say that’s more consequential than just being in the majority at each vote.

        • Max_Jets

          This is true. More consequential, even if less impressive.

    • purplerockandy

      “People actually think he’s winning? That’s bizarre to me. The guy has literally done nothing of consequence in this game besides come up with Ben Double Agent plan. Which was fun, but also unnecessary.”

      You speak as though Devon needs to do anything other than go to the Finals against two people less likely than he to garner jury votes.

      • Prom King

        That’s an understandable generalization because that’s the key thing any winner has to do. But it may describe Michele’s win, but I don’t know if describes anyone else’s. Winners tend to have more accomplishments highlighted in the edit than just “went against people that jury didn’t respect.” Although will have to give that some thought and maybe edit post, could be more examples than Michele I guess.

        I can see jury members getting over being upset by Ben and voting for him. He was an asshole at times but I think some players still liked him and others could respect how he dominated a lot of the decision making.

        A Chrissy win would take a jury full of total gamers who respect game over personal connections. Unlikely but I’m hopeful because why not dream?

        A Devon win would take a jury recognizing that he did anything. Maybe they won’t care like in KR, but I’m hopeful that’s not the case because no toxic Scot or Jason are around.

        A Ryan win would take a jury appreciating things that the viewers didn’t see. We’ve seen his social game being lauded without really seeing any phenomenal social game ourselves. But hey, Michele won.

        A Mike win is unimaginable to me and I can’t even try to make a case.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Winners who won because they went against people less likeable but didn’t do anything outrageously superb:
          Michele
          Adam (he played Michele’s game with less pizzazz)
          Bob (he’s just real likeable)
          Sandra in Pearl Islands
          Natalie White
          Fabio
          Jenna
          (I know EmnScout will hate this but) Denise
          Chris Daughtry
          Danni Boatwright

          I could go on but I’m at my desk and should really do some work.

          • I think surviving every tribal council is pretty superb.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Yeah, and relatedly, you might not like him but Chris was (or should have been) in danger the entire time.

            To me, the really clear-cut cases are Jenna, Bob, Natalie White, Michele, and I really hate to say it but maybe Sophie.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            There’s that distinction that everyone draws tho that “Doing nothing was Sophie’s superb game.”

          • Max_Jets

            But she was in a position of power and controlled a Pagonging. I don’t consider that doing nothing, she’s just not switching things up.

          • She also singlehandedly stopped Ozzy from winning.

          • Max_Jets

            Sandra 2.0

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yes but Denise made no big moves, nothing outlandish and was never at the top deciding who went.

          • Until she decided to swing Lisa and REDACTED against Malcolm

          • Kemper Boyd

            That wasn’t a big move it was the obvious move it took her too long to do. You know I love her, she’s amazing but not really as a winner.

          • prettyboyprobst

            That’s true, she wasn’t really ahead of the curve on any of the strategic stuff. But she was a powerhouse in challenges, which was doubly impressive for being just a small, middle-aged woman.

            To conclude, Denise is an amazing winner for her challenge abilities.
            *ducks*

          • Don’t duck. That is perfectly valid. Her social game was also not underrated by her cast members to the fact that Russell Swan accurately predicts that she is the winner in the pre-merge

          • Hornacek

            The best part of Denise’s game is that by the 4th episode, Russell and Malcolm were both saying at tribal that Denise would make it to the end and the jury would be falling over themselves to give her the million.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Goddamn right, and she still made it.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Denise is an amazing person and yes it is very hard to win Survivor as a woman of her age BUT she was the youngest person on her final 3.

          • purplerockandy

            Ehn. Going to every tribal council isn’t exactly superb.

          • It wasn’t her fault though.

          • purplerockandy

            It also isn’t the fault of every other player in Survivor history who didn’t go to every tribal council that they failed to achieve her grand victory.

          • Hornacek

            Denise would agree with you.

          • Hornacek

            Chris gave a Todd-like FTC performance.

          • Kemper Boyd

            He wasn’t up against anyone difficult. Todd beat Amanda who had a good resume and Courtney.

          • Hornacek

            True, but most of the women on the jury were not on his side going into FTC.

          • Kemper Boyd

            As much as Amanda tanked so did Twila. In many ways Twila was worse.

          • Hornacek

            Right, but that doesn’t take away from the great job Chris did with that jury. He told them everything they wanted to hear.

          • Prom King

            Thank you for this, it gave me a lot to think about!

            I would contest most of those though, at least comparing them to Devon. And the lack of moves or wins that Devon has accomplished on his own or by leading a group

            Adam – did A LOT! found 2 hidden immunities, 1 hidden reward, won 1 immunity, eliminated that one dummy. Will, I think

            Bob & Fabio – won multiple immunities

            Jenna – formed an ongoing alliance and won a clutch immunity

            Natalie White – tied her wagon to worst person ever. Unlike Devon and his shifting alliances, this was a decision that Natalie stuck to and did deliberately

            Sandra – fooled Burton and Fairplay

            Denise – survived every tribal council

            Chris – eliminated JP & Brad, flipped Eliza, won 3 immunities

            so, for me at least, that leaves Michele and Danni. And my jury’s still out on Danni because I really need to re-watch Guatemala

          • Kemper Boyd

            Adam: played the middle. That is my stance, yes idols and yes immunities but those aren’t gameplay. Played one idol wrong, didn’t need the other.

            Bob and Fabio: Immunity is not strategic gameplay. In many ways it’s the last resort to save a bad game. Mike Holloway had to win every immunity because he got himself into a really bad position gamewise and couldn’t dig out.

            I stand by that these players did not make big moves, and Devon is no worse than most of them. Not Denise because Denise is the fucking best.

          • Prom King

            I think we’re looking at “did anything” differently. It sounds like you are looking at a resume as being built solely around strategy. I look at it as including strategy, creating ongoing alliances, eliminating certain targets, and certainly finding Idols and Rewards and using them correctly, and winning challenges.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Everything Denise did was outrageously superb AND she went against people who were less likable.

  • Max_Jets

    Well, I may have been opening other tabs at certain points in the episode, but I thought this was pretty good. If Devon DOES win this season or even makes it to the end, last week’s episode will retroactively be better (though not good). Last week was bad because the game completely reshuffled due to everyone making mistakes, rather than anyone playing well. Him recovering would be exciting in the way that watching a great Big Brother player survive a dumb twist that negatively impacted them would be exciting, except in this case the twist is that one of your alliance members plays abominably and takes herself out of the game.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    1. Watch the flower in Chrissy’s hair during the reward and you’ll see how stitched up Survivor’s editing is.
    2. Follow Ben!!! These people!
    3. Start with the final, fixed gear and work backward! These people!
    4. Do the words “If you want to play an idol, now is the time to do so” have no meaning? Ben is of course free to hand over his idol early but it’s some bullshit that Jeff confirmed that it’s real before the vote. Maybe it didn’t make any difference this time but it’s a bad precedent.

    • Head Architect Sylvia

      Your first point is something I’d actually probably be interested in doing if I was enjoying the season more. I’m sure if I watched it I wouldn’t be too surprised though and I guess I’m ok with it as long as they don’t falsely make the person look like an idiot (or even more of an idiot – I’ll keep defending you, Debbie!).

      Hopefully one day someone will wear something different on their clothes/in their hair every time they have to record a confessional just to infuriate the producers.

    • Maritimer

      4 bugged me too. I think Probst should have said, “I consider this played at this point, but I won’t confirm if its real until after the votes are cast” or something.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I wonder if the question of whether the idol was real was ever really in doubt. The main sticking point was whether Ben would play it (Devon thought he was bluffing); they seemed unsurprised that Ben had found another idol. So maybe Jeff’s mindset wasn’t entirely on the rules bc he was so caught up in what was playing out in front of him. Not that it’s an excuse.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Ben sprung both a fake idol and a real idol on everybody at the preceding tribal. They should have doubted it was real. Hell, I was wondering if it was real and I knew about the clue.

        • I think the deciding factor here is that Ben doesn’t GAIN any huge advantage by doing this, therefore it doesn’t matter. He makes a deliberate move, of his own volition, that actually lessens the idol’s power in some way. That’s fine. It’s a power play, it makes him look good to the jury, but it doesn’t actually gain hm any appreciable advantage over other players. It actually just means that they won’t waste their votes on him. You don’t need to have specific rules about not doing something if there’s no clear advantage for anyone doing it.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Yeah, I guess that’s right. You don’t need to pass laws against things nobody in their right mind would have reason to do. I think my objection is partly aesthetic, that it violates the “rules” of Survivor the TV show, rather than Survivor the game. Kind of as if Probst decided to hang out at camp when there’s no medical emergency.

        • Maritimer

          That might be true. There was no real doubt it was real among the contestants so he probably wasn’t thinking about that implication but he has inadvertently set a bad precedent

      • DrVanNostrand

        Throw it in the fire!!!!

    • Hornacek

      4. I think Ben just took Jeff by surprise by playing the idol so early. I think the “now is the time to do so” rule is more about telling the players “You can’t play it after this point”, not “You can’t play it before this point.” I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed the rules for when you can play an idol in future seasons.

  • Head Architect Sylvia

    Just about everyone in the final six has been oozing self importance in the past few episodes. It’s tiring. It was said below, but Ryan could somehow actually be the most likeable person out there right now simply because he hasn’t said anything negative or smug recently.

    Mike has played this entire season SO terribly so why does he continue to think he’s the biggest hot shot in the game. It’s tiring. I wonder if the Facebook mums find him cute and loveable.

    Also is this one of the worst season ever in terms of funny scenes/humorous moments? There haven’t really been many fun or light moments around camp all season, just a lot of fake laughter, arguments and mechanical conversations. Such a shame but I think there was just a huge lack of playful personalities this season.

    • This season is like Guatamala in that regard.

      • Blurry Denzel

        I disagree. There were huge personalities in Guatemala.

        EDIT: I missed the playful part of the sentence.

      • Max_Jets

        Lydia and Judd were funny.

        • Blurry Denzel

          I found Bobby Jon funny as well.

          • Max_Jets

            I almost included Jamie too, but he was kind of all over the place and had me both scared of him and worried for him which wasn’t all that funny.

          • Prom King

            Especially versus Jamie.

        • Alycia Swift

          I never thought Judd was funny. Lydia, yes.

          • Prom King

            Yeah, Judd was an overrated ugh of a character. But I also thought Lydia was kinda annoying too. She’s no Judd though, fortunately.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I was just about to say the exact opposite.

        • Hornacek

          Do the pancake!

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        I feel like 90% of camp life during Guatemala was probably just Stephanie glaring at anyone that had the audacity to even open their mouth. She was so intense during that season.

        • Hornacek

          … and Stephanie talking about filet mignon pizza.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Rafe was a sanctimonious douche.

        • Prom King

          Young (ish) Prom King loved him. Thought he was a funny and very nice character who surprised him by being good at challenges, but also couldn’t understand why he was allied with the evil witch who had taken over his former crush’s body. I wonder what I would think of him now. Must re-watch season.

    • Prom King

      Survivor casting put all their chips on Patrick being the playful character this season. *Sad trombone*

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        Hmm true, they probably thought that Ali would carry him through to the merge so he’d be around a while. No one else really fits the mould.

        • Prom King

          I agree re. Ali.

      • DrVanNostrand

        They clearly never saw ginger racist Lauren coming!!!

        • Hornacek

          In her exit interview she says that some of her best friends are un-trusting gingers.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I can relate to that. Some of my best friends are lazy Mexicans.

          • Hornacek

            But some of them are good people, right?

    • UseYourCommonSense

      Agreed, Mike is so delusional. He thinks he is a Dr. Will level player when he really is no better than Bob.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Am I missing something? What Survivor Will are you talking about? I can only remember two right now and they both suck.

        • Dramus18

          Dr. Will is a Big Brother player.

        • Something Quirky

          And it would be super concerning if either were a doctor.

        • UseYourCommonSense

          Sorry I was talking about Dr. Will who is known as one of the best (if not the best) Big Brother players of all time.

  • Maritimer

    So something I don’t think is being discussed enough: if you’re the target and you know it, why do you give a flying fuck if people know you have the idol. I’d walk right back to camp, crawl under the shelter, grab the damn thing, and put it around my neck. I don’t think creating chaos at tribal is really that helpful to you. The only risk is someone sees you and manages to grab it before you but if its not buried that’s unlikely.

    • Alkanarra

      Nah, I’m all about springing it as a surprise if you can. If they know ahead of time then it gives everyone a chance to find their replacement target and work togther. If they have to make the vote out decision live then maybe they can’t come up with a consensus backup and the mini-alliance starts targetting each other, which could be beneficial to you for the next vote if they turn against each other at tribal.

      It’s a little less useful *this* late in the game when he’s already so big of a target, but the logic is sound.

      • Maritimer

        That’s fair. Though I’m not sure there’s evidence for it actually working (I’m thinking Caramoan and WA here). It seems people happily sacrifice an invaluable or threatening alliance member who was on the bottom and stick together afterwards.
        Ben also implied if nobody left camp he wouldn’t get a chance to go for it, which is really flawed, because he NEEDS it. Even if its better play not to show you have it, worst case scenario is definitely getting it with everyone knowing versus not getting it

    • With Ben, I would also guess: because springing it on them at tribal is more satisfying.

      • DrVanNostrand

        It’s probably not great gameplay (except maybe the jury enjoyed it), but I found that side of Ben really fun last night. Even though Chrissy tried to send him to his room without dinner.

    • Purplerockmatt

      the one thing is that if you start scrambling for it in an obvious way then everyone will do everything to physically keep you from getting it. like holding you down adn stuff

      • Taako From Teevhii

        After the scramble under the flag, I think this was one Ben’s mind. Especially if he has to untie knots to actually get the idol instead of digging through the sand.

      • Maritimer

        I think you could slip under there and have it before anyone really realized what you are doing

        • Hornacek

          We saw Devon, Ryan and Dr. Mike laying down on the ground talking about bagels. No idea where Ashley or Chrissy were. Ben could have easily have laid down by the edge of the shelter and started shimmying underneath it. By the time anyone noticed and realized what he was doing, he would have the idol in his hands.

          • Something Quirky

            I did enjoy their bagel chat.

          • Hornacek

            That was just the right level of nonsense chat to be going on while Ben was destroying their plans right under their noses.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      That’s exactly what I said during the episode! As long as he can get to the idol first, who cares if anyone sees him??

  • Hot take: Based on his edit, Ben is definitely going to either win or lose this season.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I’m glad someone else has finally seen the light on this

      • I will actually go one step further: if the winner ISN’T Ben, it will be one of the four other players remaining in the game.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          Logically, this is true, but I just don’t think that there’s a winner in that bunch.

          • I’ll tell you who isn’t winning… the viewers.

          • I would also say CBS is not winning.

          • I would have said so too but I just saw a tweet from Redmond with the ratings:

            Survivor HHH Episode 13 Ratings – 8.74 million viewers (1.8/7)

            Survivor MvGX Episode 13 Ratings – 8.50 million viewers (1.7/6)

            Now obviously this doesn’t exist in a vacuum but it seems everyone’s enjoying this just fine…

          • That’s really sucky because MvGX is such a good season.

          • Seriously. We’ve fallen pretty far in the space of a year.

          • It’s insane. After two pretty good to great seasons in KR and MvGX, we end up with these two.

          • Really three seasons in a row if you go back to Camb…. oh wait I forgot who I was talking to.

          • Hey now, Cambodia is better than Game Changers and HvHvH. I’m not that crazy.

          • In all honesty I haven’t been around long enough to know your exact thoughts on it but I thought (or at least hoped) as much.

          • Cambodia is 13th. Game Changers is 19th.

          • Yikes. That’s low. What were your criticisms? I’ve never ranked the seasons (I’m still only at 22/34) but I’m fairly sure Cambodia is somewhere in my Top 7 if not 5.

    • Agree to disagree, I guess.

      • Purplerockmatt

        for the last time, I am tired of you edgicers proclaiming that the edit is clearly building towards Ben traveling through a wormhole and becoming unstuck in time. It’s not gonna happen!

        • Look, if you’re just going to ignore the fact that we saw a centipede in this episode, which is vaguely worm-like, and that it was being devoured by ants, which represent spacetime, then we just aren’t going to find common ground.

          • Purplerockmatt

            yes but clearly the fish we saw is an indication that the worm is a feint meant to mislead the players who are looking at the camera to meta game the story. open your eyes!

          • Prom King

            CATERPILLAR! an adorable green caterpillar. being devoured by ants. heartbreaking!

          • Yeah, that. Very OTTN3, amirite?

          • Prom King

            I WAS VERY OTTN5 WHEN WATCHING THAT! OUTRAGED! POOR ADORABLE CATERPILLAR! NATURE SUCKS!

    • Hornacek

      #CrazyTalk

  • Crappy

    Bleh.. I can’t believe I defender Chrissy early on in the game. I still think she makes for a good villain and is certainly tenacious but boy.. her social game is just off the charts bad. For a supposed super fan for 16 years who wants and does cherishes a lot of survivor moments, she can’t stomach any one else having their own light in the day too. She seems reflexively compelled to rain on parade of anyone who may be upstaging here. Not a good look.
    Also Cole remains the only male player to win immunity this season, every single other one has been won by a woman!

    • That’s why Chrissy has to vote them all off!

  • *sigh*

    Devon – Well I THOUGHT he was at least a good player but he totally botched everything with Ashley tonight, and was kind of belligerent with Ben, so there’s that.
    Ben – and speaking of Ben he is rapidly approaching the Russel Hantz line in terms of playing idols and pissing people off.
    Mike – It’s funny that they booted Joe and kept Mike because Joe was a wild card, but Mike seems to be even more of a wild card due to his ineptitude.
    Joe – Is anybody else noting just HOW MUCH they keep showing Joe’s reactions during the last few tribal councils? Makes me think his story is not over, I can see him playing a major part in swaying people’s decisions at the Final TC (particularly if his buddy Mike is there)

    ANOTHER advantage? Oh come on. The advantages this season have been like handing dangerous weapons to a bunch of children and watching them hurt each other for no reason with them.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      I would hold off on calling Ben a Hantzian player just bc he hasn’t shown the requisite meanness and poor sportsmanship to justify that title. He can be a grouch, but that’s not at a Hantz level.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        But he has shown *some* meanness and poor sportsmanship

        • Hornacek

          So he is a bad sportmanship.

      • Yeah he’s approaching that line but I doubt he will cross it. Still, it’s not a great look. I don’t see him as the big threat to win in front of a jury that everyone else seems to see.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Except for the Joe boot (and Joe kind of had it coming, TBH), Ben hasn’t had Russell’s mix of meanness AND gleefulness at other’s misfortune.

          • Alycia Swift

            He’s had some of the gleefulness. Both him and Chrissy cheer sometimes a little too much when someone is voted out. (She mostly smiles very wide.) And he treats others like dirt when they ask a question afterwards.

      • Alkanarra

        He’s just Rupert. Grumpy, stubborn, and self congratulatory, put themselves into a social hole because of their pigheadedness, but is still somehow well liked and considered a threat in spite of his mediocre strategy. If Rupert had gotten two idols back-to-back in RI then he would have played them on himself and been right both times; doesn’t make either of them some kind of savant.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          He’s a touch better than Rupert in that I don’t think Rupert could pull off the double agent act for more than 6 hours.

          • Alkanarra

            I’d fucking love to see him try though.

            Rupert storming about the beach, doing his tantrum shtick, cursing everyone out, then it cuts to a confessional where he’s giggling with that stupid grin of his and boasting about how amazingly he’s doing.

            Smash cut to Sandra: “I don’t believe that dummy for a second.”

          • He did pull off the fake idol rock for a while.

          • purplerockandy

            Rupert would be awesome at a double agent act if that were the theme of the season he was on.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Survivor: Secret Agent!

        • Roswulf

          I feel like Rupert’s defning quality is that he is DESPERATE to be liked. He’s also a pigheaded, pommpous ass (especially once Survivor told him he was beloved), but he cares deeply what other people think about him. He wants to be the leader of a group.

          Ben? Ben has no problem being hated. He knows he’s better than everyone else- that he’s a HERO- and needs no outside validation.

          • Alkanarra

            Yeah, that’s fair. Despite my mocking him I’ve always been a Rupert supporter whereas Ben is mostly vanilla. I guess I’m more comparing him to Rupert 2.0 after his ego took over. Original Rupert was definitely way more vulnerable and frankly a more inspirational character because of it.

          • Hornacek

            “whereas Ben is mostly vanilla.”

            Come on, he’s nowhere near Julia Landauer.

      • Alycia Swift

        Well I will give him credit for not calling women dumbasses and not burning socks nor actively trying to hamstring his own tribe.

      • Prom King

        Hantzian Level is Top Scumbag Level. Few can attain that, and certainly not Ben.

    • Hornacek

      We have had a few seasons that have had an advantage in the final reward challenge (although someone has said they can see the immunity necklace next to Jeff when he shows the advantage, indicating this is an immunity challenge, not a reward challenge).

      • That was me. I went back and the necklace is hanging up on the post when he pulls the advantage out of his pocket.

    • Prom King

      I think with Joe, that’s just the Eliza Reaction Shot. Camera loves that shot. Hard to imagine Joe playing a major part in swaying anyone, since no one appears to like him besides Lauren (at least per Lauren’s Ponderosa).

  • Are you all just actively trying to enrage me with your Devon takes this week? Because it’s kind of working.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Devon has the mustache of a Frenchman

      • J’accuse!

      • Alycia Swift

        Why am I picturing a Monty Python sketch?

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Oh shit y’all, check this finale prediction out: https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/7jr0me/finale_prediction_spoiler_on_what_the_final_twist/

    That would actually raise my opinion of this season by at least half a letter grade. Probably more.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I’ve actually thought about that scenario before this twist and especially with this twist. It makes sense in a few circumstances, and it also plays to the jury as you making a really big move

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        So kind of what Tai was trying to talk Sarah into doing at F4 last season.

    • Maritimer

      That would go down as a Top 5 move too

    • Blurry Denzel

      I love this scenario for so many reasons. It’s so brilliant. The season would still be below mediocre but that glorious move…it would bring a tear to the eye.

      • Blurry Denzel

        I should’ve never read this. I’m obsessed with this now. I want this to be a thing.

        • Same. And I have other reasons for wanting it to happen that would become clear on the day after the finale.

          • Blurry Denzel

            That’s nicely vague. You have my interest.

          • Purplerockmatt

            pssst what posts the day after episodes air?

          • Blurry Denzel

            Damn, sometimes the simple answer is the right one. I was hoping for something else.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            The day after the finale? Are you talking about my coronation day?

          • Blurry Denzel

            Not if this scenario was a thing. Unless I can’t do math. I actually don’t remember a lot of the fantasy scoring.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            It won’t be. I’ll beat final boss Emma and then we can all watch Tocantins in the offseason together!

          • Blurry Denzel

            I don’t think one leads to the other.

          • I hope you have your finest tiara picked out.

          • Maritimer

            Gloating?

    • If this happens, I’ll make mine the featured comment next week so you can all apologize to me for not loving Devon enough.

    • Figaro

      Can you recap the prediction here? For some reason the OP removed whatever they’d posted, but based on the comments I’m assuming it has something to do with Devon giving up Immunity?

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I’m debating whether this actually needs a spoiler tag, but I’ll throw it on just to be safe. They predicted that Ben wins Immunity at 5, so everyone else votes out Mike. Then Devon wins Immunity at 4, but Jeff tells them the new F4 rules. Knowing that neither Chrissy nor Ryan can beat Ben at fire making and that Ben wins if he makes it to FTC, Devon gives the Immunity Necklace to one of them so that he can be the one to take out Ben.

        • Figaro

          Wow, that’d definitely be an impressive move! Realistically though, I feel like the chances of it happening are infinitesimal – if I’m Devon in that scenario I’d probably be too risk averse and just let Ben get to the finals and hope I can undermine him enough there to cinch the win

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Oh, absolutely, esp bc there’s a difference of $90k b/t making FTC and not. But *if* he did it and *if* it worked…

    • Something Quirky

      It’s been removed…

  • prettyboyprobst

    I feel like this video, from when there were ten people left, will become handy this week for anyone who hasn’t grown tired of defending Chrissy against accusations about her unfairly targeting women.
    #QueenOfSocialGame

    To be clear: I don’t like it, but I don’t have a problem with Chrissy (or Ashley) targeting women for being women, if that’s what she’s doing. Unlike the plan Ashley layed out here, I think there were always additional factors that made Chrissy vote the way she voted. But even if she’s only voting out women because she’s more comfortable playing with men, she shouldn’t be blamed for that. Everyone should be free to choose the path through the game and vote out players they deem won’t allow them to be the most succesful they can be, without having to worry about shit storms at home.

    It’s unfortunate (for us and for them) if those are all women or people of colour or whatever, but we can’t really fault players who want to make the most of their game for not taking that into consideration. However, it can be a good reason not to cheer for a player like that, but for me Chrissy hasn’t crossed the line with her voting pattern. There are enough other factors that make Chrissy a rather unappealing specimen of her archetype, though, as everyone here seems to be well aware of.

    I still would be fine with her winning (not that she has much of a chance), but there are four options left that I would prefer.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Yeah, people need to be able to hold two thoughts in their head at the same time: “I don’t like how Chrissy is targeting all the women” and “I don’t hold anything against Chrissy for doing so.” Both can be true simultaneously, and again, it’s just a game. Now, in real life, this pattern would be very problematic.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I agree completely, and yet it was almost comical how quickly and emphatically she pivoted from Ben to Ashley this episode.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        I also think it’s a weird over correction that people are getting this feeling like the women this season need to be protected from mean, sexist Chrissy. Until I’m shown evidence to the contrary I think it’s more likely that she is targeting people she views as threats than that she has some irrational misogyny guiding all of her votes.
        They’re all out there playing a game, and everyone has an equal chance to steer the vote and/or protect themselves. I definitely agree that in a season like MvGx when most of the WOC are voted out right in a row early on it’s unpleasant and maybe says something unfortunate about the social dynamics of the cast as a whole, but it bugs me that this sentiment is getting flipped into this feeling that we just can’t root for someone who votes out women. I would not be entertained by watching a show where there is some hierarchy of who you’re allowed to vote out when – like all the white men have to go first or something. I just want the game to work organically, though of course in my heart I don’t want the first boot to always be a black man or woman because that sucks.

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          I hate that everything I said here sounds like the lame excuses we hear for sexism in the real world. Maybe I’m just desperate for Survivor to be an escape from the sexism and misogyny pervading the news IRL. And who knows, maybe I’m totally wrong about Chrissy and she is the worst.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I’m going to be honest: based upon everything we have seen from Chrissy this season why are people (and not just you because it’s a lot of people) still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt? She sucks and she has displayed this repeatedly throughout the season.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            My answer, honestly, is that she is smart and arrogant and I actually kind of like to see that in a woman sometimes, especially an older mom. She’s behaving against type.

          • Purplerockmatt

            i mean i bet she is smart in real life, but has that displayed in the game? her complete lack of interest in bonding with people seems pretty stupid right? and plenty of great survivor women were arrogant. Sandra is arrogant! Parvati is arrogant, Cirie is arrogant. we see arrogance. Chrissy is callous

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            I’m not trying to say she’s good at Survivor or that others have to like her. She’s definitely a smart person, though (look at her performance in logic based puzzles this season). I’m entertained by her callousness, but I’m sure it’s all a matter of personal taste.
            I hesitate to bring gender into it, but when I see a successful woman who isn’t afraid to come off as mean or cold, I find it striking. Generally I think it’s better that people are nice instead of mean obviously, but when I see a woman who just doesn’t care how others see her, I pay attention. It’s a little bit freeing to imagine for me. At work I waste so much time adding smiley faces to my emails and saying stupid stuff like “no worries, I’ll fix that for you” it’s exhausting.

          • Purplerockmatt

            yeah i get that and i don’t think you should hesitate to bring gender into it since gender is at the heart of this topic. And I think it’s important that you see something in her that you respond to positively. But I also think that is different from the whole “is Chrissy targeting women” question. I think you can play Chrissy’s game and not target women. And i mean if you are worried that your excuses for her sound like the lame excuses we generally use to write off this stuff, doesn’t that say a lot already?

          • prettyboyprobst

            It doesn’t, because On the island, playing Survivor =/= Real Life

            That was pretty much my whole point (And luckily for me, Taako boiled it down to that in his response).

            And sure, Chrissy could play her game without almost always landing on women as targets, but how succesful would she be though, with Ali, Desi, Roark, Katrina etc. staying instead of people that wanted to work with her and who she could manipulate?

          • Purplerockmatt

            What it boils down to then, for you, is whether you believe Chrissy is targeting women because of game reasons or real life reasons.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Because here is the thing: is Chrissy targeting the women in this game because she actually thinks they are bigger threats, or is she targeting the women in this game because of unconscious biases that she has based upon growing up in a male-dominated society and culture that has taught her that to succeed she has to be one of the guys, and that women can’t help her in a work setting?

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Absolutely – that’s the heart of the question, and really we’re all making assumptions since Chrissy hasn’t explicitly stated her motivation, as far as I know. And maybe the crux of the disagreement is whether people want to give her the benefit of the doubt or assume the worst. Personally my instinct has been to treat her more charitably than most, but given what we’re surrounded with IRL I do get where people’s pessimism is coming from.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I agree. Ok I think i’m done

          • prettyboyprobst

            A little bit of both, I would guess. Even I thought most of these women were bigger threats than the alternatives (and most of them seemingly also unwilling to make bonds with her, to be fair), and because she’s used to work in a male-dominated society, she’s also used and more comfortable to work with men (and make them do what she wants them to do).
            That doesn’t mean that she likes that workplaces work like that. It also doesn’t show that she fights that culture, we just don’t know.
            So even if you think that her personal workplace habits play a part in her voting pattern, that doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t see a problem with women having a harder time to get into high positions at work and so on.. But playing Survivor, it’s probably a good idea to go with what you know and are comfortable with, in my estimation.

          • Alycia Swift

            It can be two things.

            Many of the guys this season have been jerks/doofuses. The women have not. She might think they are threats because of that.

          • Alycia Swift

            The only one of that crew that did want to work with her was Katrina – another “older” woman. The others did not approach her either – it goes both ways. And the younger women would have banded against her eventually had they survived. Why should she not work with a guy who purposefully gave her an idol and approached her and another (JP) who was extremely malleable over women that did not speak with her or targeted her until both sides needed each other.

          • Prom King

            I want to believe!

          • i and 1

            There are sliders modifying traits, in my mind. Chrissy is the sort that certain players might bond with because she isn’t into betrayal (but then she finds she has to do it). She’s happer to just be an upfront boss. I, personally, would rather work with Chrissy than Parvati. So that is kind of a ‘strength’, at least if I might matter ina season I would play with Chrissy. And that same striving that Chrissy and Parvati share, which pushes into bold talk and confrontation (of some sort or another); and at least some degree of flexibility in the face of other players’ moves or position… those things help both women.

            In this case, though, we see Chrissy’s discomfort with hiding/repressing her emotion in all of this, with her urge to immediately react to personal elements and not, I don’t know, be two-faced as much as would be “smart”… OK, it isn’t working so great. Maybe…? With Parvati, I can imagine her getting far and betraying a lot of people, and then counting on them forgiving that, it’s “just a game” etc. But I think in another season, Chrissy might’ve ended up a strong woman who could make it just as far, and maybe get some respect for focussing on fighting against schemers, more than being one herself.

            Look, I wouldn’t be surprised if my unthinking typing here was rather assailable—I am definitely assuming ALOT about how Chrissy might do under different circumstances. But to call her dumb just because an aggresiveness that has kept her status as “a player” as well as an actal player in the game this far has resulted in roughness in relations along the way is also maybe a bit overdone.

            Understandable to wish she was doing better though, when she so clearly does have some ability for this game!

          • Prom King

            Callous how?

          • prettyboyprobst

            I know, I also felt kind of dirty writing what I wrote. And I had to go back and edit something, because I just figured out that there are only three people I want to win over Chrissy (still not giving up on Dr. Mike and I came around on Ben lately. Anyone but Ryan, really.). Who knew we’re at Final Five already!

        • purplerockandy

          I’d accept that she was simply targeting threats if she otherwise demonstrated any ability to form a relationship with a single woman this season. Like, a cordial one even.

          Also: if a man were openly targeting every woman in the game, how many outs would you be giving him?

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Define “openly”? I don’t recall a Chrissy confessional where she says “I want to vote out every single woman until I’m the only one left” but then again I don’t watch secret scenes, etc.

            I can think of male players in the past who have openly targeted women, for example the Brad Culpepper dudes alliance in BvW though that broke down quickly. TBH I was not a fan and maybe that makes me a hypocrite but that’s merely an ad hominem and not an actual refutation of my argument that we don’t have proof that Chrissy is targeting women just for being women.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I will say that I don’t believe Chrissy is targeting women just for being women. I am sure she has justified it in other ways. But she always keeps coming up with an excuse or a justification to target the woman first. What is probably happening is subconscious, but it keeps pushing her to find a reason to elevate a woman into that next target

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            This is fair. Though I will say it rankles that the collective assumption is that Chrissy is a “mean girl” who doesn’t want to be friends with women or, worse yet, is jealous of them. It feels super sexist to me.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I also think Chrissy isn’t targeting women as a conscious strategy, but rather that she always has a justification for herself to do so (and as you noted, the women really have been bigger threats in many instances). In addition, she’s absolutely abysmal at making nice with people she’s not currently allied with. The combination of those two things are making her look like a mean girl.

          • StormofCuteness

            I truly believe Chrissy is subconsciously or not a misogynist. I have known and do know many women like her. Her unwillingness to develop ANY relationship with any of the women (as far as we’ve seen and from her secret scenes) seems blatant.

            For instance, given this secret scene with Ashley, it might be easy to assume she also falls into this category….and yet, we saw her develop relationships with other women during the season. So, even if that isn’t her most comfortable place, she still made the effort. Chrissy has not. Though, from this as well, we hear she’s been “mothering” people…while still not forming bonds with the women.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            The only evidence of Chrissy mothering people (aside from Ryan) is Ben telling her she can’t mother him, and in context I think he meant mothering in the hectoring sense rather than the comforting sense.

          • Alycia Swift

            And her response was great – “what’s this got to do with mothering.”

          • StormofCuteness

            I’m just going to take a wild guest and say you didn’t actually watch the Ashley secret scene above to which I was referring. 🙄

          • Hornacek

            I think Ben meant to say “smother” and made a Freudian slip.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Her comments to Ben last night at TC was mothering bullshit.

          • Alycia Swift

            Well if you think about it, most of the straight out idiot things done this season early on were done by men.

            The men mostly targeting her for being the mom – one of the two older ladies – automatically.
            Joe being obnoxious.
            Mike’s nonsense.
            Cole’s eating and other nonsense.

            Why would she want to sit next to people not doing dumb things?

          • purplerockandy

            Fine. Remove openly. If a man was almost always targeting women, and was repeatedly shown to have no working relationship with women on the show, how would you feel about that man? How much burden of proof would you require to raise questions about his motivations?

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            You mean like Jeremy Collins in Cambodia?

          • Part of that was because Jeremy had his meat shield strategy at first with his bros and Tasha, but Jeremy still had good relationships with Wentworth (which was a pre-established relationship but still relevant) and Kimmi. He also showed a willingness to work with Ciera.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Oh yeah, I definitely don’t think Jeremy was sexist. My point was really that if we only look at raw voting numbers it doesn’t tell the whole story.

          • purplerockandy

            Then it’s a good thing that raw voting numbers aren’t the only case to be made against Chrissy.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            But look how solidly my straw man was built 🙂

          • Purplerockmatt

            If there is one thing Andy must admire, it is a good straw man

          • Alycia Swift

            He was doing the opposite of what he did the first time. Remember the first time, Jeremy planned to work with all women and be the only guy doing so. He did not even bond with Keith, his fellow firefighter.

          • Prom King

            It seemed like he had a connection with Keith, up until Keith needlessly backstabbed him.

          • purplerockandy

            If you want to make that case, have at it. He also went to the end with Tasha.

          • Alycia Swift

            We saw that with Brad Culepepper his first time although he did not last that long.

          • purplerockandy

            And we did not like it.

          • It also helped that that tribe was already down numbers genderwise because of Laura being swapped (for lack of a better word) to the returnee tribe. Much like Chrissy this season, there is some justification for it. However, the whole “let’s target the big strong returnees by voting out their weaker female counterparts” is pretty awful in that lens.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Totally – it’s like how everyone here hates the black widow brigade so much for excluding and targeting men. Oh wait. I guess it’s okay to have a double standard about who is being targeted but not about who is doing the targeting.

          • Defense here: They were open to using male votes and they even plotted against one of their own once before realizing that they could easily trick Erik.

          • purplerockandy

            Oh Ms Sweaterfan. You’re better than this. You know that you are.

            Chrissy is not worth this.

          • DrVanNostrand

            The BWB had way better relationships with the men on their season than Chrissy. They simply used those relationships to stab them in the back, which is something I can respect regardless of gender.

          • This, sort of.

            Also, even if Chrissy makes the final 3, I’d struggle to believe that that vindicates her strategy of voting out all the other women. Or even if she won. The story we’re being told right now is that Chrissy is still in the game in large part because everyone hates her, not because of her masterful all-male alliance strategy. Now, maybe everyone hates her BECAUSE she won’t work with the other women, but that’s entirely accidental. I don’t believe for a second that Chrissy’s strategy was ‘I know, I’ll alienate 50% of the cast and make myself a goat’. She’s succeeding by accident, not by design.

          • prettyboyprobst

            She also tends to win immunity whenever people might think about voting her out.
            I’d say that has more to do with her staying power than being unlikeable.

          • i and 1

            I think she wanted Ben out more than anyone else (Edit: lol, well, she picked Ashley to go first, but still, that was a strategic delay on Ben’s ouster, she was angling for BOTH). The only question mark for me is why not target Devon, and really I expect to hav3 a question mark or two about everyone’s strategy.

          • I still feel like she sees both Ryan and Devon as goats while Mike is perceived to be a strategic mastermind because glasses.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            It may be a case of the audience being privy to more information than the players, but If Ryan and Chrissy genuinely want to go to the end with Devon (rather than just being forced to say that because of the circumstances), they’re absolutely insane.

          • But Devon wasn’t the one to talk Final 3 first, right?

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            With Chrissy and Ryan a tight pair, and with so few people left in the game, I think it would have been too sketchy not to propose a Final 3 deal, genuine or not. Like Natalie in the bed with Jon and Jaclyn.

          • Blurry Denzel

            That last sentemce threw me completely off your point.

          • Great point.

      • Up until last night, I never really felt like Chrissy targeting women was detrimental to her game. Sure, maybe there were always other options, but in general, all of the women whom she targeted were in the minority alliance, and Chrissy really had no reason to blow the game open. Sure, it’s frustrating, and I’m definitely not denying that Chrissy has something against other strong women, but there’s always been decent reason for her choices. Even voting out Ashley is hypothetically defendable, but promising to go rogue if no one else is willing to makes absolutely no sense, unless you accept that Chrissy is motivated primarily by a desire to get rid of women.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      I totally agree. Also, as I’ve said before, the women were over all much bigger threats this season, so targeting Ali/Roark/Jessica instead of, say, Mike/JP/Joe early on is actually smart gameplay, even if it makes us sad.

    • Purplerockmatt

      if you come into the season without showing any willingness to work with other women (or frankly any other people other than the ones you’ve identified as your close allies) you are just a terrible player. Chrissy said last night, last night! that she didn’t really know Devon. She had been allied with Devon for multiple votes! She said she didn’t really know Ashley. Remember how she talked to Lauren? Chrissy had no intention of ever aligning with another woman this season and it showed with how careless she was about even trying to get to know them. The way you relate to people is how you play the game! You can’t just write this shit off as “it’s a game” when that game relies on you getting votes in the end.

      As to whether this is good gameplay, the history of survivor has generally shown that women stand their best chance of winning when up against other women in the end, not when up against two men. There are three exceptions to this: Sarah, Sophie and Natalie. In two of those exceptions the jury was all ready to vote for the other man before they completely bungled tribal counsel and they decided to pivot (This is very clear with Samoa where they all said they came in ready to vote for Mick before he was an idiot, it’s less clear with South Pacific). So what does this mean? It means that women struggle to get positive credit for their moves when up against men because the jury defaults into thinking that the men were pulling the strings. The Natalie White example is instructive because why would the jury ever prefer Mick over here before tribal except for the fact that they were giving the man the benefit of the doubt. So if your strategy is to be the only woman at final tribal that is bad strategy! And the reason is because someone like Chrissy might see the positive credit for her moves be given to her male ally (cough Ryan) or to another man all together who they don’t blame for ousting them.

      • prettyboyprobst

        I wasn’t saying she’s a good player in every aspect of the game, just that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with her voting out all the women, if that’s what she, as a player in this high-stakes game, wants to be doing. That hashtag I borrowed from John. I think he was sarcastic, and that’s what I was going for, so people wouldn’t think I’m defending her whole game by making the effort to point to that Ashley interview.

        These are interesting musings on who women should bring to the end, though. The only problem with that is that it feels like whoever trys to cobble together a women’s alliance in a non-One World setting gets voted out immediately. Do you have some analysis for that?

        • Purplerockmatt

          i mean looking through the seasons, women do do better when there is only one man at the end (and usually if he sucks). women’s alliances are bigger threats early on, but generally fall into place post-merge when you can convince people to target men as “immunity threats.” Generally fighting back against the pre-merge trend of women must be the weakest on the tribe is good (because its just not true). and i’m not saying you need all women, but it really doesn’t tend to work for women who aim to be the only woman left standing. get an alliance that has some variety in it

      • Crappy

        This seems like a selective reading of FTC votes. You are just looking for female winners who have beaten 2 fellow male finalists in a 3 person FTC.
        – For starters, how many men have beaten 2 female finalists in a 3 person FTC? 3 – Todd, Bob and Cochran, the exact same number as the women.
        – How many women have beaten at least one men in a 3 person FTC? Sandra, Denise, Michele – 3 , it is 7 for men. But if you go through the list of those 7 male winners, it is hard to argue a case for any of the losing women finalists in those 3 (bar may be Carolyn?).
        – As far as mixed final 2s are concerned, out of 7 it is 3 for women (Tina, Jenna, Amber) and 4 for men.
        Do I think women have it slightly harder to claim strategic role at final tribal councils than men? Yes I do but I don’t think it as badly skewed as you think. In general UTR players, men or women struggle to do that and more women end up playing that strategy than men. In recent past itself likes of Sarah, Wentworth, Natalie, Ciera have shown that playing an aggressive or flashy game would get them recognised, regardless of their gender.

  • Hornacek

    What are the odds that next week, Ben goes looking for an idol, and once again, none of the other players follow him?

    • Blurry Denzel

      I think they will follow him until they stop. It won’t be Andrea following Malcolm.

      • Alycia Swift

        The thing is – even if they follow him – if he finds it and has it with them knowing – its his. The only thing they can do is what happened when Cole basically jumped in the same spot Chrissy was looking. They all have to jump in or someone or try and physically hamper Ben. Would the show even allow them to physically manhandle him and pull him away from where he is looking?

        • Blurry Denzel

          I was thinking more along the lines of if he’s looking in the bushes, look in that same bush. Stay close to him and if he looks somewhere, join him. You have just as much right to that idol.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yes, go right up and look in there – we’ve seen that before. But if a clue is spotted or something, or they have to dig, will the show allow 3 people to pull him out of the way by physically holding him down or something and the fourth digs.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Maybe not something so blatant but if the proposed final three of Chrissy, Devon and Ryan wanted to work together, have Devon get in Ben’s way while the other two dig. Make Ben work around you.

          • Alycia Swift

            I’d be curious if Ben’s training would come into play and he could get around one guy.

    • i and 1

      Why do that when you can just have Mike scour their surroundings before Ben has a chance to begin?

      • That happened in this episode and look at what happened.

        • i and 1

          I guess nothing can be done then!

      • Blurry Denzel

        Mike should have a delusional moment of the week segment. I love the conclusion he drew was that since he, the Survivor mastermind, cannot find the idol clue then it must not exist.

        • Hornacek

          The only logical conclusion.

    • Alycia Swift

      What are the chances he follows the camera crew and finds one?

      • Hornacek

        Sigh. The camera crew does not hang out where an idol is hidden.

        • Alycia Swift

          Yes but players have said they watch where the camera is pointed when they are looking for an idol near an idol or if the camera is following them when they are looking for an idol. I probably should have said once the crew was following him (if the crew is not following him when he is looking, he may not be near it), watching where the camera itself was going toward when not filming the actual person.

          • Hornacek

            What I have heard (more than once) from players is that if they’re looking for an idol and the camerman is following them, and then after awhile the cameraman leaves, they know that there is no idol where they are looking, so they know they should go somewhere else to look.

            I don’t have any direct knowledge of proof, but I feel that the show would not be dumb enough to have the camera pointing at where the idol is hidden while someone is there looking for it. It’s very easy for them to take shots like that before or after the idol is found, when there is no one around, and then edit them together.

            The producers want to make good TV, but they are not letting the players know where the idols are. If they were, there are a lot of players that got voted out that the show knew were good TV and would want to keep around – why didn’t the cameramen show them where an idol was hidden?

            But if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But I’d be surprised by the show flagrantly helping out one player like that (although, they did a season where they gave one tribe lots of food and a comfortable shelter, and they gave the other tribe nothing …)

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    This is fun psychoanalyzing Chrissy and arguing the merits of playing (and confirming) an idol before the vote, but here’s the thing:

    1. They couldn’t be bothered to keep Ben on lockdown.
    2. They had three tribals left to get rid of two for-sure winners, and they got rid of someone who (while an immunity threat) is drawing dead in terms of FTC votes.

    Seriously, fuck this. Bring on the Dr. Mike win.

    • Blurry Denzel

      Maybe they think Dr. Mike is as bad as I do. I would say that Ashley has played a better game than him and have more of a resumé than Mike. I’m not sure about the jury though.

      • However, her boot episode really pointed out her flaws.
        1) She has no poker face. If she is mad, then everyone can realize it.
        2) She is highly reactive to situations instead of highly active. Instead of trying to maybe swing Ben or do something with him, she decided to stay firm with an ally who she was separated from in Devon.

        • Blurry Denzel

          Yeah, she is a player with flaws. I think wanting to go after Ben anytime before final 6 was the big mistake. I really think that initial flip ignited something in her and she got too impatient before wanting to do the next thing.

          • I think Joe telling her that she was the goat really got under her skin.

    • I honestly think that right now Dr. Mike is the person most likely to win this season.

      • Max_Jets

        I’ve thought about this as on paper he has 3 votes locked, but does he actually? He wanted Cole gone and voted him out, he helped make the plan to vote Desi out work, and I’m not even sure if Joe would respect his game enough to vote for him.

        • Blurry Denzel

          I think a lot of time it is assumed that people you were in a tribe with or worked with will vote for you just because you’re an option. History doesn’t always support that.

          • Roswulf

            Yup. This only really works at all if your former tribe mates still see you as one of them- if your victory is their victory.

            If they backstabbed YOU- as is the case wtth Cole and Desi…that history doesn’t help. And Joe isn’t exactly going to love the idea of voting based on friendship and tribal affiliation.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I agree that he’s not guaranteed the Healers’ votes in theory, but everybody except Devon has been atrocious at jury management. Who is Joe going to vote for if not Mike? Or Ashley, for that matter?

            I guess that contradicts what I just said about Ben or Devon being guaranteed winners, but whatever.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Why couldn’t Joe vote for Devon?

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Sorry, I skipped a step there. What I meant was “So assuming Devon is on the jury, who is Joe going to vote for if not Mike?”

          • Max_Jets

            Ben

          • prettyboyprobst

            Yep, I fully expect Joe to hurt himself from extensive self shoulder patting when he makes a passionate plea for his former adversary. If Ben is there, Joe will vote for him. That way he can tell everyone once again how voting out him over Ben was their gravest mistake in the whole game.

          • 100 percent agree on that. I can see Joe pulling a RC so easily it is not even funny.

          • Prom King

            He sees him as a chump for not recognizing Ben’s threat level.

    • Maritimer

      I’m getting the impression that these people don’t consider Devon a for sure winner (or is Dr. Mike your second one?)

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Upon further reflection, I think that might be the case. We have a lot more information than the other players do. Devon may be lowering his threat level to the point where he winds up like Kaoh Rong Aubry. In fact I suspect he’s throwing the challenges so long as he’s not in immediate danger.

        • Maritimer

          I’m not sure he ends up like KR Aubry because these people don’t seem to have the social skills of Michele. If he articulates his game well, he should be okay at FTC, except against Ben and Dr. Mike. I do agree with you he’s throwing challenges.

          • It was pretty obvious last night.

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, he clearly had no desire to win that

          • I don’t think he could have solved the puzzle faster than Chrissy, but he was clearly throwing the middle part.

    • All this. A part of me is like “They get benefit of the doubt” and a part of me is like “Let them burn!”

  • Question for the podcast: Despite how much we loved it at first blush for the novelty, did Devon’s “Secret Agent Ben” plan backfire massively against him? Yes, I know this is results-oriented, but those three did not do a good job of reintegrating themselves back with Ben. It is one thing tor recognize that Ben is a massive target and that you need to get him out, but it is another thing for them to basically say “You’re the next one out”.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Interesting. I feel like you could argue the exact opposite case–playing secret agent isolated Ben and didn’t allow him to nip any plots against him in the bud–and both sides could be right.

      • Oh yeah, but I feel like those three thought that they had Ben.

      • Alycia Swift

        And may have hurt his jury management. If either Ryan or Chrissy or both are on the jury, do you think they are voting for Ben?

        • Prom King

          They are both gamers, so if they get over being butthurt… maybe? Although that window may have closed because there’s not much time between the next couple eliminations and final tribal.

          • Alycia Swift

            How many “gamers” really get over being butthurt?

          • Arguably half of Cambodia’s cast never really got over it.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yep.

          • Prom King

            Probably not many. Zeke? I dunno. I’m just trying to keep my hopes for a Ben or Chrissy win alive!

          • Alycia Swift

            Zeke seemed butthurt to me at the MvGenx finale with that “evolution of strategy” question. Since then, perhaps.

          • Zeke in Game Changers was happy with Sarah being at FTC despite him wearing his jacket.

          • Alycia Swift

            So he eventually got over it.

          • Correct. Malcolm in Philippines?

          • Alycia Swift

            I never thought of Malcolm as butthurt but its been a while.

          • Alycia Swift

            I never thought of Malcolm as butthurt but its been a while.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Chrissy is the queen of being butthurt. She won’t get over it.

          • Prom King

            I can imagine that. I guess there’s only way to solve that problem: Chrissy must make Final Three!

    • purplerockandy

      Nah. It was the alliance that backfired, not the secret agent part. As discussed last week, don’t get into an alliance with Ben if you can’t stand being in an alliance with Ben.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’m with Andy. They had every opportunity to re-unite with Ben. They didn’t try and fail to reintegrate with Ben. They chose not to. They targeted him, and *that’s* what blew up the alliance.

  • UseYourCommonSense

    Wow…that Tribal was massively overhyped.

    The amount of idols placed in this game is getting ridiculous. They barely even try to hide them anymore.

    • purplerockandy

      But… this… one was hidden right under the shelter?

      • the sky is falling

        Not the first time, once it was the actual logo or symbol above the shelter. In China

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      To be fair, there aren’t more idols than before, they’re just the same idols circulating in the game. I feel like the show is punishing us for whining about players just sitting on their idols and advantages last season.

  • I think I’ve finally put my finger on what my main problem with Chrissy is, and it’s not (surprisingly enough) her unwillingness to work with other women. It’s that she doesn’t seem to take any joy in the game, beyond a general smug attitude when things are going her way.

    Most players enjoy/appreciate it when another player makes a good move, even if they end up on the wrong side of it. They can, at the very least, usually bring themselves to make noises of respect. Chrissy just seems irritated by other players making moves. There’s no sense of fun, or of appreciation for the game or what makes good television. That, I think, is what’s really soured me on her.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      The way she reacts back at camp after a vote doesn’t go her way is the single worst aspect of her game. I think you’re onto something, but I think it’s part of a larger phenomenon. I’ll probably end up talking more about this in the podcast post, but I think Chrissy came onto Survivor determined to bust all the mom stereotypes (and I wouldn’t be surprised if stereotype-busting is a big part of IRL persona). She’s the mom who doesn’t play mom to other players. She’s the mom who’s a strategic force. She’s the mom who rocks a tiny bikini. She’s the mom who doesn’t draft behind an alpha male. And things like that. The problem is that when she overcorrects the stereotype, it’s really a bad look. And mechanically doing the opposite of your stereotype isn’t automatically good.

      And it’s such a huge mistake to refuse to work with someone for personal reasons (as opposed to game-situation reasons). It’s the reverse image of a showmance.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        This is an interesting assessment and it actually makes a lot of sense to me. The funny thing is that she still gets accused of trying to “mother” the other players, even when her behavior is not mom-like at all. Terry tried to do a similar thing to Cirie in Panama, and it bombed equally as hard IMO. It’s weird that these traditional men seem to think that calling a woman a mother is an insult.

        • Prom King

          Ms. Sweaterfan, here are some comments from Ashley regarding Chrissy that I think you’ll appreciate, if you haven’t already read them:

          My job is an ocean rescue guard. I am saving lives and I’m one of the few females who do it, so you just kind of get used to a little bit of the stigma of being an authoritative figure at work. If I discipline someone the exact same way a male does, I’m seen as a bitch and the male is seen as respectable. It’s true with this game too, and I think Chrissy got a lot of that as well. She was strong physically, she was smart. But she gets so much hate online and from other players just for being a strong female, when I think if she was a dude, people would have nothing but respect for her outspoken confidence. It’s just funny that, because of the gender, it’s seen completely differently.

          https://parade.com/629353/mikebloom/survivor-heroes-v-healers-v-hustlers-ashley-nolan-gets-hung-out-to-dry-by-her-aquatic-ally/

          (Also, her Ponderosa video is one of the most delightful Ponderosas I’ve ever seen.)

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            That’s awesome – I’m glad Ashley spoke up. That paragraph seems to strongly hint that Chrissy is an FTC loser like everyone is assuming, unfortunately. I’m still glad to hear that at least one woman who played with her is acknowledging that there’s a familiar double standard going on here.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I’ve said this before (possibly in reply to you), but given the context of the times Ben’s said that, and the fact that he’s in his mid-30s and not barely past his teen years, I’ll bet he meant mothering in the Mallory Archer sense, and not the June Cleaver sense.

    • the sky is falling

      I’m sure I’m on an island here, but that’s part of what makes Hantz better than chrissy. Hate him or hate him, it’s hard to deny that he was having the time of his life out there.