Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 3 Liveblog: “My Kisses Are Private”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the third episode of Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers!

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
Matt
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  • Hornacek

    “Ok, time to watch Survivor … Sylvester, NOW you want attention?”
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/281f8c9e604a1d4242179c5f2550f91988c8df6fc29a301fa304af04f0be24dd.jpg

  • corndogshuffle

    Torn between watching the last inning of Nationals-Cubs and catching up with Survivor, or just watching Survivor live. Go Nats!!!

    • the sky is falling

      I’m worried about your priorities

      • corndogshuffle

        I’ve never seen the Nationals win a playoff series. But if this game ends in the next five minutes I can watch Survivor commercial free while still seeing Tribal Council live!

    • Hornacek

      Nationals and Cubs … that’s the one with the small ball, right?

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    I’m so glad to be back with y’all and watching live

  • sharculese

    “Have you ever worn somebody else’s clothes after you voted them out?”

    Ryan, this um, how do I tell you, the first time you’ve ever voted someone out. None of you have done that before.

    Oh, cool, and he follows it up by calling Ali ‘a female.’

  • gouis

    Yes! Ryan used the word ‘female’ as a noun. Gives me a legit reason to keep the hate going.

    • sharculese

      Red pill powers activate!

      • gouis

        It was like right on cue after everyone was all “Ryan is great!”after last week

      • DrVanNostrand

        I always assumed.

      • I bet that guy has multiple stories about all the fun he had during Gamergate.

        • sharculese

          It’s actually about ethics in tortured analogies.

    • Hornacek

      Don’t be an anti-gingite.

    • Something Quirky

      I think I missed that quote. What’d he say?

  • Streets_Ahead

    Patrick also brings the hidden power of being someone Ali already knew.

  • the sky is falling

    So they always keep the “strong” guys for challenges in the beginning. Need to see some analysis as to of that actually makes a difference.
    Do early challenges really rely on strength?

    • Streets_Ahead

      These days usually there is an element based on strength and then puzzle.

    • sharculese

      I’m sure Jeff Pittman has a completely impenetrable acronym for tracking that.

      • the sky is falling

        I’m anxiously awaiting your weekly edgic post. That shit is gold.

    • 3 out of 5 challenges.

  • sharculese

    Theory: Patrick is that pale because he’s a sasquatch that production captured and shaved. His tender skin has never seen sunlight before.

  • Hornacek

    “Look at the octopus!”
    “That’s a rock!”

    We need this dialogue put onto a GIF of a boulder.

    • indescribable hat

      Roctopus!

      • Hornacek

        Doc Rock

  • indescribable hat

    I’m so jealous of everybody’s PRP shirt pics, but on the other hand the thought of owning more T-shirts than I currently do is very stressful to me.

    • Sylvisual

      You could own…a hat?

      • indescribable hat

        I also have more than enough hats, but good thought.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Mug! Onesie! Or save your money honestly you do you.

      • purplerockandy

        We don’t actually sell hats.

    • StormofCuteness

      No pressure, some of us can’t even upload a photo properly so don’t be too jealous. 🤗

      • Hornacek

        Some of us can’t even upload a photo without it rotating 90 degrees to the right.

  • Hornacek

    Alan’s arc on Survivor will be “man vs. coconut”.

    • sharculese

      So you’re saying he’s the new Cochran?

      • Hornacek

        The anti-tyson. Or Gervase.

        • sharculese

          Well, Tyson and Cochran are both Coach’s proteges. According to Coach, at least.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    THATS A GOOD SIZE JP

  • the sky is falling

    “That’s a good size JP” phrasing!

  • Hornacek

    “That’s a good size JP …”

    #ThatsWhatSheSaid

    • DrVanNostrand

      She also made a great comment about him spearing animals. She hopes to be next.

  • the sky is falling

    all aboard the Ben train!

  • Hornacek

    Alan’s plan all along was to cockblock Ashley.

  • sharculese

    Omigod Ashley is straight just mugging for the cameras in camp. Fuck yes, Survivor: Meta-Island.

  • Hornacek

    Ashley says to Ben “We could train him.” about JP. I think she and Ben are thinking of different meanings of “train”.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Everyone still thinks he’s a simpleton. She even referred to him as a dog of some sort. Jon Misch 2.0 confirmed!

  • the sky is falling

    this episodes soundtrack brought to you by the bachelor franchise.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Wow, Jessica wasn’t playing that religious thing up at all

  • sharculese

    COOL AND COLLECTIVE! JOE SAD COOL AND COLLECTIVE!

    • the sky is falling

      We had it all wrong! He is alt-Rodney

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        No.

        • No. Joe has scored points.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You don’t need to respond to every single comment, John.

  • Hornacek

    Is Joe wearing Dr. Mike’s glasses during his first confessional?

    • the sky is falling

      Get the doctors name right or I will not acknowledge that comment

  • sharculese

    Me: Is Jessica about to admit she’s a virgin?

    Jessica: I am a virgin.

    • Maritimer

      Is this going to lead to an awkward round of finale questions again?

      • Hornacek

        (at the reunion)

        Jeff: So, Jessica, have you done it yet?

        • Maritimer

          Taking bets now that he asks that

  • Hornacek

    The next movie reward on Survivor: The 30 Year Old Virgin.

  • Hornacek

    Jessica kisses Cole on the cheek. According to her that’s first base.

    • the sky is falling

      That’s second base for me

    • sharculese

      I can’t tell whether Jessica is mad about Cole telling Roark (I think?) about the idol because it’s bad strategy or because she’s already getting jealous.

      • It’s properly both.

      • wonderand

        I think she’s mad that what she thought was THEIR strategy is actually HIS strategy (so, right in between your options). Which is kind of exactly what Cole is realizing about Joe.

    • Sylvisual

      Wait, that’s not third base?

  • the sky is falling

    Roark said something! alert!

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Cole better not be about to throw the challenge

  • Streets_Ahead

    Please get yourself voted out Cole. It would be so funny.

    • the sky is falling

      Haha, it’s clearly not Joe with reveal this early, let’s do it!

  • Hornacek

    Who are these new people complaining about Joe not liking raw food?

    • sharculese

      People who are on a show where you don’t get a lot of choice about what you eat and who know that complaining is just a way to isolate yourself.

      • Hornacek

        Don’t offer joe an apple.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Is this developing trend of getting to 30 minutes without the challenge a sign of a new type of edit or is it just a product of the necessary narratives of these episodes?

    • the sky is falling

      I think it’s just cause there is a single challenge in the early episodes on a 3 tribe season

      • Taako From Teevhii

        That never stopped them in previous seasons. Normally it rolled in around the 15-20 minute mark

        • sharculese

          Could be they’re just trying something new?

          • Taako From Teevhii

            That’s what I’m wondering.

    • sharculese

      Maybe we’re just not getting reward challenges until the swap and maybe not even until the merge?

    • It is early in the game, there is only one challenge, and these early boots in particular are very simple.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Another developing trend is Jeff saying “Let’s get it on” before challenges. It’s not great.

      • Maritimer

        That’s not that new is it? I feel like he used to say it in older seasons

        • Taako From Teevhii

          There was a very long stretch of “Give you a minute to strategize, we’ll get started.”

          • Maritimer

            There was. I think the first round of “let’s get it on” pre-dates that. I want to say around Micro (I could also be confusing Jeff with an old gym teacher of mine who used to say that)

      • Hornacek

        He should definitely sing it instead of saying it.

    • DrVanNostrand

      It’s happened in a few seasons. In the beginning with a lot of players, it makes some sense to combine reward and immunity to give us some time to see everyone at camp. I’m down with anything that gives us 10 seconds with Desi, that we would otherwise never get.

  • Hornacek

    Did Jeff show the eggs laid by the chickens and then say “They work”?

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Yes. Yes, he did.

    • BadPlayer91

      He meant like Rihanna work, not Loverboy work…

      • Hornacek

        Jeff: We’re giving you chickens. They are not defective, they work like normal chickens. They do produce eggs.

  • Hornacek

    Poor Dr. Mike sits out. I think he said in his pre-season interviews that he practiced throwing bean bags at a target a lot.

    • the sky is falling

      He can’t be targeted for losing the challenge, that’s good

  • Streets_Ahead

    So Lauren is going home then.

    • Alkanarra

      In Patrick’s defense, she *is* a woman.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    After that challenge performance and everything from the previous few days, I’m going to be very interested to see how Ali tries to spin keeping Patrick.

  • Hornacek

    “You knocked his block off!”

  • the sky is falling

    If I could remember my fantasy team, I think this episode makes me a witch in training

  • Hornacek

    “Sorry guys for not throwing fast enough.”

    Yeah, that wasn’t the problem.

  • sharculese

    Y’know what, I kind of think I’d rather come in second and get one nice egg dinner than have to deal with the tribe politics of when we get the next portion of stringy, unseasoned chicken.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Kill the rooster immediately. Worthless fucks.

      • sharculese

        misandrist

      • purplerockandy

        Missed a golden opportunity to make a cuck joke.

      • Hornacek

        Kill the rooster immediately. Worthless clucks.

    • Hornacek

      Also, they don’t know this, but they’re swapping the next day so some players could win the chickens and then be swapped to another tribe and miss out on eating chickens.

  • Hornacek

    “Redheads don’t do very well at life.”

    Wait, what?

    • the sky is falling

      Yeah that was a weirdly aggressive stance on gingers. The Weaslys did fine

      • Hornacek

        Winner’s edit!!!

        • the sky is falling

          Kinda love her weird redhead racism

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        What are those twins up to now days?

        • Purple Rock Emma

          😭😭😭

        • Hornacek

          One of them is doing fine. The other one, not so much.

          • Maritimer

            Not. Okay.

          • Hornacek

            There’s a special about Rowling for BBC (?) after the final movie came out where she did a family tree of all the main characters and what happens to them after the books, and she reveals that George never recovered from Fred’s death and didn’t have a very good life. She explained that when one twin loses another in a relationship as close as Fred and George’s, it leaves a hole in the survivor’s life that can never be filled.

          • Maritimer

            Also. Not. Okay. Why does she keep on traumatizing me

          • Hornacek

            You’re not going to like her eventual sequel “Harry Potter and the Enlarged Prostate”.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            WHICH IS WHY THAT WAS THE DEATH THAT UPSET ME MOST.

          • Hornacek

            That was a big battle. The odds that all of the Weasleys would make it out alive were pretty low. And if one of them were to die, for it not to be one of the twins, that’s stretching credulity (in a story involving magic).

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I think she just meant that they are not enjoyable to be around.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Oh, well then that’s fine to say.

  • the sky is falling

    Based on how Ryan voted for prez, we know he is not great at big decisions

    • Sylvisual

      I’d say he’s the biggest. A very big decider.

  • sharculese

    Are Ryan and Devon the new Rob C. and Killer Matt?

    • indescribable hat

      Ryan better be Killer Matt here…

      • sharculese

        He is not.

        • indescribable hat

          You wound me.

        • Other Scott

          I kinda think Devon is the smart one out of that group.

          • gouis

            Agreed

          • sharculese

            I do not.

          • Other Scott

            What makes you say that?

          • sharculese

            He seems kind of guileless. Not dumb, necessarily, just like subterfuge doesn’t occur naturally to him.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I mean, at least Devon believes in climate change.

          • indescribable hat

            I kinda think Ryan is the off-putting one.

          • It’s clearly the beta version of Stephen and JT.

          • gouis

            We really sure Devon is a step down from JT after his recent outings?

          • For right now, we will say yes.

          • Other Scott

            I mean Tocantins JT was really really good, so yes the default position is almost any newbie is a step down from JT

          • Hornacek

            I thought we agreed that they were the new David & Ken.

        • Hornacek

          There were a few shots of Devon in this episode at tribal where his face was totally expressionless and I got Mateo flashbacks.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I don’t think the analogy holds. Rob C. grabbed Killer Matt because he was an outsider. I haven’t gotten that vibe from Devon at all.

  • the sky is falling

    Ali said “tooken” dead to me

    • Hornacek

      Maybe she meant to say “Tolkien”?

  • Taako From Teevhii

    If you think you might be blindsided, you really can’t be blindsided.

    • Other Scott

      I think the implication is that neither of them is expecting to go home tonight, they both think the other 3 players are with them

    • Streets_Ahead

      In modern survivor blindsided means voted out. Kind of like when people use literally in a context where it means not literally.

      • the sky is falling

        Most true statement

      • Hornacek

        “Total blindside!” (dramatic music)

  • Taako From Teevhii

    “I’ve never been in a relationship.”

    NO. REALLY?!?

    • Hornacek

      Bellhops are known for this.

  • I think we were all blindsided with this awful ginger prejudices from Lauren.

  • gouis

    Oh Ryan’s never been in a relationship? No wonder Reddit loves him

  • Taako From Teevhii

    We’re at fucking 15 people after this tribal. Why are we talking about merges?

    • the sky is falling

      Cause hustler tribe sucks

    • Hornacek

      Every vote has been a unanimous vote. Production wants to shake things up.

  • Hornacek

    Ryan was very eager to offer up that he’s never been in a relationship.

    Wait, could we have TWO virgins on this season? Is that a record?

    • Taako From Teevhii

      How do you count Will and a virign piña colada?

      • I think you mean milk?

        • Taako From Teevhii

          To be fair, virgin piña colada is milk-adjacent.

          • (Whispers) I don’t drink that much.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            (whispers back) Neither do I. But take my word for it.

          • Thanks boo.

          • Hornacek

            There are dozens of us! DOZENS!

      • Hornacek

        You really think Will was a virgin?

        • sharculese

          Will only sounded like Barry White.

          • Hornacek

            Larry White

        • Taako From Teevhii

          I would respond to this, but we have a rule at PRP about making fun of people’s faces

        • Purple Rock Emma

          He was only 18. What, you’re telling me people have sex before graduating high school? That’s insane.

          • Hornacek

            You’re right. What was I thinking?

  • Streets_Ahead

    Ah mild surprise. Not really going to miss Patrick though.

    • sharculese

      Two people who the tribe didn’t like were on the block and one of them went home. Can’t wait to hear Reddit’s take on how this is still the Best. Season. Ever.

      • Other Scott

        I really think the season is doing a good job building long term stories. They’ve invested a lot in a lot of relationships that may really pay off down the road.

        We’ll obviously see when some of that stuff starts coming to fruition.

        • sharculese

          I don’t think anything so far is a harbinger of a bad season (except the cast.)

          I’m still going to bag on Reddit.

        • the sky is falling

          Yes, predictable so far, but still feel like it could work its way towards something intriguing

      • corndogshuffle

        I mean it’s not a total cluster fuck and the winner isn’t a borderline invisible woman (that we know of), so they probaby aren’t that high on it.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Sounds extremely results-oriented.

      • Max_Jets

        It’s a good season so far if you don’t put all your enjoyment on the tribal vote. Remember the MvGX episodes where the Gen X tribe had major blindsides but the episodes were kind of bland? Or how Panama was a lot of fun but only had like 3 interesting votes?

      • Hornacek

        Breaking news: Survivor season starts off slow!

  • the sky is falling

    this episode was fine. This season needs a strong postmerge. I’d say Ben is the front runner at this point.

    • purplerockandy

      Good ol’ dynamic Ben

  • Hornacek

    #CrappyLittleTricycle

    • I am shocked that was not a hashtag.

      • Hornacek

        We don’t get hashtags on Global in Canada, so I just assumed it was.

  • corndogshuffle

    I was hoping Patrick would call them scum bags.

    • the sky is falling

      You are mistaking this for a season w memorable moments. I’m feelin like this is gonna be fine, but not even mvgx level interesting

    • Kick that giant ginger puppy. Kick it!

  • indescribable hat

    Wooooooo comeuppance!

  • gouis

    Two weeks in a row the voiceover after the challenge correctly picked who was going home.

  • Swap time!

  • Well congratulations Patrick. I hope you enjoyed your time in the game and will enjoy your future Funny 115 entry.

    • Maritimer

      Oh god. He’s definitely getting one isn’t he. Because he’s a good “character” and not a boring “strategist”

      • He confused a rock for an octopus, what do you think?

        • Maritimer

          Ugh, he definitely is

          • Look on the bright side. It will be nice break of pace from the eight Debbie entries.

          • Maritimer

            Yet I will read them all anyways, because I’m a sucker for Survivor content

      • Diego Armando

        Not like that stupid gamebot Tai.

        • Maritimer

          Still possibly the strangest argument he’s ever made. I can’t even begin to comprehend that one

          • Hornacek

            Strangest? I’ve said it here more than once, but this is the guy that wrote some Survivor fan fiction of an all star season years ago (before the actual All Star season) where he had Vecepia turn into a strategic mastermind and win.

          • Maritimer

            I try my best to forget about that

          • Diego Armando

            The weird thing is how arbitrary some of it is. For example, Zeke is a gamebot where as Sophie is fantastic and worth rewatching South Pacific for. This is weird because Zeke was an emotional player who played to the camera and audience, whereas Sophie did not. Sophie’s strategy of preventing interesting things from happening is the definition of gamebot behavior (valuing strategy over entertainment), but that is good.

          • Other Scott

            Wait he called Tai a gamebot somewhere? What?

          • Maritimer

            One of his entries this round. I can’t find it, but its probably one of the ones where he argues that Dan and Tarzan are good characters who we should appreciate more

          • Hornacek

            I’m hoping he’s talking about Dan the astronaut.

          • Maritimer

            If only

          • Diego Armando

            I think it was in his clue burning screed. He in addition to his go to gamebots Ciera and Zeke, he made some caption of an angry Jeff saying something like “Tai wouldn’t have done this.”

          • Other Scott

            I mean Tai wouldn’t have done it

      • Diego Armando

        My definition of a gamebot is a player who places strategy front and center and does not try to entertaining. I think the definition has now changed to “anyone I don’t like; anyone plays in a way I don’t agree with; or anyone who Probst likes”.

        • Maritimer

          I think that’s a fair definition and frankly, few people fall into that. I can see the argument for the Cochran/Spencer type, because they are trying to use strategy as their entertainment, which is what I would call gamebot. I really don’t think the term is bad in the way it should be used. Its the way other parts of the Survivor Internet uses it that I hate, which is the changed definition you note.

  • Hornacek

    First vote … “It’s Pat!”

  • So I guess we know why they didn’t bring up Pat and Ali’s previous relationship.

  • Hornacek

    Patrick looked like he was going to attack one of them when Jeff asked him to bring him his torch.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      He seemed really salty about being turned on, which makes me think that Patrick did not know what show he was going on.

      • Hornacek

        Did he say “You people are awful”?

        • Yes he did

        • Diego Armando

          Who could have expected that people would lie in Survivor?

          • Hornacek

            Patrick was confused – he thought he applied for American Ginger Warrior.

      • the sky is falling

        As other Scott said, they are setting up a few things that might pay off later

      • BadPlayer91

        True that. In the first two episodes he just seemed goofy and thus maybe it didn’t stand out as much, but here he looked like he straight up hadn’t watched a single episode of Survivor prior to.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        I’m sure it’s sort of the All-Star effect. He figured knowing Ali made him safe.

  • Other Scott

    I liked this episode. Like I’m comparing it to the beginning of Kaoh Rong which is a season I loved, and while the actual votes haven’t been as interesting we are building stuff with the Cole-Jessica-Joe stuff and the Chrissy-Ben stuff and I think we’ve set up a lot of dominoes to pay off down the road.

    Meanwhile we didn’t know anything about the beauty tribe in Kaoh Rong at all, and even the brains were a little bit amorphous.

    • gouis

      Kaoh Rong? God I hope not.

      • Other Scott

        Kaoh Rong was a really good season!

        • gouis

          Ban

          • Other Scott

            Hey trust me I’m as anti-Michele’s win as anyone. Her game is identical to Fabio.

          • gouis

            So what did you like? The numerous medivacs or the bullying?

          • Other Scott

            The bullying was fine, it was relatively mild and set up villains for the season which gave investment and rooting interest. I like that there were clear sides set up, where the minority was unlikable but also had extra advantages, and I loved the two episode stretch of the Debbie and Scot votes.

          • sharculese

            The bullying only seemed mild because Alicia wasn’t as mentally fragile as the z-grade pissboys who were perpetrating it. It was still unbelievable gross how they behaved.

          • Hornacek

            It still brings a smile to my face when Aubry talks about it and says that it infuriated Scot when she didn’t react at all when they poured water on the fire. Because the only thing they cared about was getting a reaction.

          • Alkanarra

            Tai, Cydney, and Aubry were strong enough to save that season from its faults.

          • gouis

            Tai is indeed charming, but Cydney is mostly just a few empty one liners who didn’t do much game wise, and Aubry is like shitty Shirin.

          • Other Scott

            Okay I’m just offended now.

          • Alkanarra

            I’d argue with the man, but I think it’ll be more amusing if we wait for BD to hear someone was trashing on Aubry and let him do the work for us. It’s effective *and* lazy.

          • gouis

            Dude just needs to wait until someone brings up Hannah and I can talk about how she’s a clone of Aubry where they were missing a few key amino acids in the cloning pods.

          • Alkanarra

            Damn, Debbie.

          • Diego Armando

            She was if someone attempted to fuse Shirin and Aubry, but got all the bad parts of them.

          • gouis

            Just proved my point.

          • purplerockandy

            It’s comforting to know that I don’t have to be here to respond to everything and someone else will pick up the ball for me.

          • Max_Jets

            Cydney was one of the most intuitive game players we’ve seen in recent seasons and flipped the entire season on its head, in addition to being a great character. Shirin is wonderful television, but wishes she could be the player Aubry was.

          • Hornacek

            I was really high on Cydney that season up until she didn’t vote for Aubry at the FTC. Then we heard in her post-season interviews that she refused to vote for Aubry for the sole reason that Aubry had voted her out.

            And when asked about her plan to get to the end and win, she said that if she had been successful at voting out Aubry at the final four she would have had enough jury votes to win including Aubry’s. She failed to see the irony that she fully expected Aubry on the jury to vote for her to win after she had voted Aubry out, but in reality she refused to vote for Aubry to win because Aubry had done exactly what she was trying to do to Aubry. Total hypocrite.

          • Max_Jets

            She said it was a toss up and that she used that rationale as a tiebreaker. I think it’s bull, but I also think she just voted for Michele because she felt closer to her but didn’t want to say that out loud which is fine.

            EDIT: I also think her reasoning isn’t all that hypocritical. Michele was never going to vote her out, which she rewarded. Cydney turned against Aubry because she knew Aubry was changing loyalty to Tai.

          • Hornacek

            I’m remembering her RHAP longform interview and Cydney flat out states that she fully expected Aubry to vote for her to win if she had been able to vote Aubry out at the final four. I can’t remember for sure but I think she she also said that her goal was to always vote out Aubry at final four because she expected her to be a vote for her on the jury. She definitely says that she felt betrayed that Aubry would vote her out at the final four and that’s why she didn’t vote for her to win.

            So yeah, I still think she’s a hypocrite.

          • Max_Jets

            Well she was right – Aubry would have voted for Cydney at final tribal. Aubry has said as much. Just because she (correctly) expected that vote, that doesn’t mean she owes one to Aubry.

            I also have faulty memory, but I thought I remembered her saying she would have been happy to go to the final 3 with Aubry and Michele.
            But if not, then I’d still say whatever. Cydney giving her vote to Michele doesn’t mean she is placing herself above Aubry. It just means she is giving more props to Michele. From Cydney’s own perspective, she might rank the 3 of them Michele>Aubry≥Cydney. She’s just trying explain her vote, she’s not getting on a moral high ground.

          • Hornacek

            Exactly! Aubry would have voted for Cydney to win because if Aubry had gone out at final four instead of Cydney, Aubry would have looked at the final three of Cydney, Michele and Tai and thought “Cydney is the best player of these three” and voted for her.

            But Cydney could not do the same. Do we really think that Cydney looked at the final three of Aubry, Michele and Tai and really thought “Michele is the best player of these three”? Besides, Cydney said in her post-game interviews that the reason she didn’t vote for Aubry to win is because she felt betrayed by Aubry voting her out (or forcing the fire-making challenge). That’s why Cydney voted for Michele to win – she doesn’t do exactly what she expected Aubry to do in the same circumstances, so that’s why I call her a hypocrite.

          • Max_Jets

            “That’s why Cydney voted for Michele to win – she doesn’t do exactly what she expected Aubry to do in the same circumstances, so that’s why I call her a hypocrite.”
            That’s like…the worst possible way you could read it though. She was grateful Michele showed full loyalty and she rewarded her. Cydney turned against Aubry because Aubry turned against her. The meta aspect of who played the “best” game doesn’t matter – Cydney doesn’t say anything about that – Cydney voted for Michele because she was grateful for her loyalty and can cast her vote based on any criteria.

            “Aubry would have voted for Cydney to win because if Aubry had gone out at final four instead of Cydney, Aubry would have looked at the final three of Cydney, Michele and Tai and thought “Cydney is the best player of these three” and voted for her.”
            Because that’s how Aubry would base her vote. Cydney can decide that “most deserving” means the person she feels closer to, even if as fans we appreciate when the savvier game player is rewarded. Nothing Cydney says here contradicts anything else she said. Aubry WAS more disloyal to her than Michele was, straight up.

          • Hornacek

            So you’re saying that Cydney voted for Michele to win to reward her loyalty, not because she thought she was the best player. That’s a valid reason to vote for someone, but she can’t say that and then turn around and say “I didn’t vote for Aubry because she voted me out … oh, by the way, if I had voted out Aubry I would have expected her to vote for me to win and not be bitter like I was.”

          • Max_Jets

            Expected as in anticipated? Sure, why not? She probably knows they have different criteria. Expected as in demanded? That would be very silly indeed.

          • Hornacek

            Bottom line – she didn’t vote for Aubry at the FTC because Aubry did X. Cydney’s plan was to do X to Aubry and she thought Aubry should have voted for her to win. I’m sorry, but that’s almost a textbook definition of being a hypocrite.

            Agree to disagree, I guess.

          • Max_Jets

            Ah okay, didn’t realize she said Aubry SHOULD have voted for her to win.

          • Hornacek

            Rob was asking her a hypothetical if she had voted out Aubry at final four, or if she had won that fire making challenge, if she thought she would have won. I think Rob went through the entire jury in this scenario and she said she totally expected to get Aubry’s vote because Aubry would vote for her as the best player of that final three even though Cydney had just voted Aubry out.

            Again, this is the exact same situation we actually got with Aubry voting Cydney out, and yet Cydney told Rob that she didn’t vote for Aubry because Aubry had voted her out.

            This is probably the most I’ve ever written about this in one comment board. It probably comes across like I’m obsessed with this scenario, I swear I’m not!

          • Max_Jets

            Haha, after I posted my last one I was thinking “I’m probably annoying as shit right now”. I…might be kind of obsessed but only because I love Cydney! But yes, fair enough. We’ve probably gone as far as we can in this discussion…

          • Hornacek

            Wait, this is a disagreement on the internet. Shouldn’t you be calling me a soulless bastard and defaming my mother right about now?

          • Max_Jets

            Alright, I’m fact checking now. Cydney says on RHAP that she would have been happy to go to the end with anyone, because she thought she could pitch her case against anyone. She then says it would have been nice to go with her friends (Aubry and Michele), but that if it had to go another way then she would be happy just to get to the end.

          • Max_Jets

            The bullying lasted like 2 episodes in pre-merge. 2 of the 3 medevac episodes were pretty good. Kaoh Rong had a cast that was stacked with active players and an edit that was actually willing to show everyone’s place in the game, which made the strategy more interesting. I think Tai’s story line was probably the best one Survivor has ever had. The pre-merge gave the early boots good stories too and had legitimate blindsides in almost every episode. The villains were well fleshed out. The Nick/Debbie/Scot stretch of vote outs was top notch. It had arguably the most likable final 4.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            The bullying lasted longer than that.

          • Max_Jets

            I don’t consider the camp sabotage bullying at all, but I do remember debating it.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Those dudes were pieces of shit in Ponderosa.

          • Max_Jets

            Yeah, they were pathetic there, but I don’t factor Ponderosa videos into a season’s quality.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I would argue that they continued to bully Tai as well.

          • Max_Jets

            And he voted their asses out – one of them in the most glorious way – and it was satisfying as hell. Fair enough, though.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Yes it was. Yes it was.

          • sharculese

            Kyle is such an unrelenting piece of shit that I wouldn’t have been satisfied with any comeuppance that didn’t involve the phrase “just straight got his dick bit off.”

          • Max_Jets

            Damn. I’m curious why you say that for Jason instead of Scot. I think I would get along fine with Jason in real life, but I don’t think I could put up with Scot.

          • sharculese

            One, he’s a bounty hunter, so, gross.

            Two, that bullshit about how he was bullying Alicia because he didn’t want his girls to grow up to be like her established him as the worst kind of toxic, predatory misogynist.

            Three, he just generally seems smugly ignorant in the most obnoxious kind of way. At least Scot knows he’s kind of a goon. Kyle things he’s a bold iconoclast.

        • the sky is falling

          But no one won…

          • Other Scott

            Yeah sometimes a season isn’t about winners but about losers. It doesn’t make it worse.

          • the sky is falling

            Literally laughed out loud, thanks

          • Diego Armando

            Like Amazon.

    • Alkanarra

      This might even be the best season of Temptation Island I’ve ever seen.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    So with the swap coming next week, what are the best outcomes we could get? I’d want to see Alan-Cole-Jessica (POWER COUPLE!) and Joe-Ryan. If Joe went that hard after Mike, I’d want to see how he’d approach Ryan.

    • the sky is falling

      Eww, do you like Ryan? Or you just wanna see them both fail? I can support that take

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I want a good fight. Mike seems entirely uninterested in taking on Joe.

        • the sky is falling

          Mike will offer all the guys dick pills in private, easy win

    • I want Lauren and Joe on the same tribe.

    • Hornacek

      Joe and Alan. High-energy meets super-paranoid.

  • Of all the Survivors I was going to find myself comparing Patrick to, I wasn’t expecting it to end up being Stephen Fishbach vs The Stick.

  • Hornacek

    A swap at 15? Is one person going to Exile Beach?

    • Taako From Teevhii

      They could reset to three tribes of five

      • Hornacek

        They could, but that seems unlikely.

    • Other Scott

      I’m wondering if we’re about to get a 3 to 3 swap

    • Star Z

      Oh yea maybe. I didn’t think about that.

    • DrVanNostrand

      15 person merge!

  • Hornacek

    Patrick finally realizes that people can lie to you in Survivor.

  • Calling it now: Jessica is going to go Full Bunny Boiler the SECOND she catches Cole looking at one of the other women the wrong way.

    • Mike Hirsch
    • DrVanNostrand

      My reaction to Jessica this episode rapidly went from, “Cool, apparently there is a person named Jessica on the show. She’s kind of charming.” to “OK, that’s more than enough from Jessica. You can stop now.”

      • Other Scott

        I’m fully invested in Jessica at this point. This story can go pretty much anywhere at this point and I wouldn’t be shocked. Personally I’m hoping for “flirt with Mike to make Cole jealous”

        • My take is that the reason Jessica is still a virgin is that everyone she dates mysteriously turns up dead before the relationship has a chance to get to that point.

          • Hornacek

            Wow, this took a dark turn.

  • Star Z

    Were still kind of in the first phase of survivor. I feel like this season is going to get really good come the merge.

    • Kingoftonga

      I think the last two episodes have been fine, building long-term interpersonal dynamics, and telling a clear story about why Simone and Patrick went home. What I don’t like in the preseason is random blindsides that go unexplained by the edit.

  • wonderand

    Ryan, The Decider: *utterly unable to hold eye contact with Patrick after votes are read.*
    Me: God, I miss Michaela.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Most hotels frown upon bellhops making direct eye contact with guests.

      • gouis

        More bellhop facts plz

        • sharculese

          Bellhops poop standing up.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Nobody cleans the toilets back of house.

        • Kingoftonga

          I actively run from bellhops because I never carry cash

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            There is actually an industry term for this kind of guest.

          • DrVanNostrand

            “Cheap”?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Bingo!

          • Kingoftonga

            I’m surprised it’s a family-friendly term! I never heard worse obscenities then when I waited tables and someone received a small tip

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Please! We aren’t waiters! There is a certain amount of class involved in our industry!

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Always engage and always tip. We know people in the travel industry and can really ramp up a vacation. You talk to us like we’re human and drop a decent tip… You just got free tickets to Fiesta Texas.

      • gouis

        How many times have you been propositioned for sexual activities?

    • indescribable hat

      Jay?

      • sharculese

        Jay is a place inside all of us.

        • Especially when we are high…I mean when you are high…I mean, I don’t know what I mean.

          • sharculese

            Are you sure you’re not high?

          • Hopefully I am not, considering I just got home from work a half hour ago.

          • Maritimer

            That’s lots of time

          • sharculese

            srsly

      • Don’t worry, he’s doing the RHAP Recap of this episode.

        • Maritimer

          I may actually listen to my first RHAP recap for this reason

          • Hornacek

            The “Why Blank Lost” podcasts have taken a dive in quality this season with Rob leaving and Jessica Lewis joining David. She’s ok, but she’s not a player I think of when I think of “strategic players who I want to listen to discussing strategy with David”.

          • Maritimer

            This is actually the only Survivor podcast I listen to, though I read pretty much all content around I can find. If I expand to RHAP beyond listening to Jay I will avoid that one I guess. I recently learned RHAP puts out about 8 Survivor podcasts a week, which seems insane

          • gouis

            They’ve always been horrible in my opinion. Bloomberg has the personality of a slug and always seems pretty bitter

          • sharculese

            The Survivor rules are rote and boring and having to go through them makes most of the episodes interchangeable, but what killed it for me was Kaoh Rong when he kept taking everything Kyle told him on Twitter as gospel truth even as it became increasingly clear that Kyle was an irrelevant on-looker to the entire post-merge.

            It was an embarrassment even to semi-amateur podcast journalism.

          • Hornacek

            I found David’s discussion of those Twitter Press Conferences as funny and from what I remember, he admitted that this was what Kyle was telling him months after the episode was filmed and to take it with a grain of salt.

          • Hornacek

            I always enjoyed the back-and-forth with Rob and David. It was the nerdiest of the RHAP weekly Survivor podcasts since it was all about the vote and strategy.

        • Hornacek

          I am curious how much, if any, strategic talk Jay may have to contribute. I remember from Rob’s red carpet interview with Jay after the reunion, Rob asked him how he decided who to vote for, and Jay said “When I got to tribal, I would just zone out and not listen to anything, and eventually I would see these lights in the air … ” and it just goes on like that until Rob realizes “Oh, I made a huge mistake asking this question and starts talking to someone else.

          • Luckily, Jay can at least discuss the strategy of sharing idol information.

      • wonderand

        I mean, Jay would also be preferable to Ryan. But Michaela & her props would be preferable to either.

        • indescribable hat

          Oh my mind went to stone cold yeah-I-did-that Jay when he voted Michaela out, but I see now what you were saying.

          • wonderand

            And now you’ve made me miss Jay, too, so yay teamwork? Enough with Ryan, is the important thing.

          • Alkanarra

            To be fair, Jay kinda seemed like a dick three episodes into his season. Still plenty of time for one of these folks to turn it up.

          • I actually think we started to see some strategic savvy from him based on his conversation with Michaela and Figgy during Season 2.

    • BadPlayer91

      Gawd yas where is she? She belongs, she’s a hero, she hustles (see her lightning windmill arms digging shit up like a beast in GC), and her meer presence is healing.

      I guess maybe they decided they couldn’t put her on just one team, because as noted YOU CANT CONTAIN GREATNESS!

      Michaela is BAE. MICHAELA IS LYFE!

  • Mike Hirsch

    The Saga of Patrick was compelling tv. He was very, very ill-suited for the game of Survivor, but damn fascinating to watch, for me at least.

    • Kingoftonga

      [Sits down across from you, smiles, has no response]

    • the sky is falling

      I know it’s still early, but not a lot of star power this season. It’s fine, but no one really popping for me so far.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        That might arguably be a good thing if that means the cast is very balanced.

        • the sky is falling

          Depends on what you like, I’m a fan of crazy game changers over slow burn

        • Streets_Ahead

          Balanced doesn’t mean good per say. If everyone is a scrub it means it’s a balanced group but that probably not good.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            This might be true, but success in Survivor is always and completely relative to everyone else on your season. So when there’s more parity, there are more directions that season can go in and power is more equitably spread.

      • Mike Hirsch

        I’m fine with the cast so far, although it is hard to get super excited about anyone. Patrick was strangely compelling, but not in a way that would have necessarily been good over a whole season. I liked the condensed Patrick we got.

        • the sky is falling

          Mike Hollowell started out in a similar fashion to Patrick

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yes, and that worked out for no one.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        That’s about how I feel. It’s just been nothing special so far. Hopefully the potential is there for some excitement after the swap and into the merge. On the bright side, I think a season with a boring pre-merge and an exciting post-merge can still turn out to be a top tier season, while the reverse is much harder to pull off.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Are you saying that ‘bargain basement Ken’, ‘bargain basement Tony’, ‘bargain basement Cochran’, ‘bargain basement Jay’, and ‘exact Jon Misch clone’ aren’t compelling characters?

          • Diego Armando

            JP is a poor man’s Jon Misch and that is even sadder.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I hear that a lot on this site, and I have the same opinion of JP as everyone else, so I am left to conclude that I have a much lower opinion of Jon Misch.

          • sharculese

            The median opinion of Jon Misch is fairly low but Other Scott fucks up the curve.

          • Maritimer

            I will join Other Scott in fucking up that curve

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Stop forcing me to defend Jon Misch. I don’t even like Jon Misch. But at least he is worthy of an opinion, unlike the human embodiment of face blindness.

          • Hornacek

            You’ve been a Jon Misch defender ever since you watched him get married.

        • Maritimer

          Right, which I why I like Caramoan better than Worlds apart (to use two bad seasons as an example because I haven’t had enough coffee yet to come up with another one)

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Re Caramoan vs. Worlds Apart: I concur

      • BadPlayer91

        On one hand, I generally agree, no one has really captivated me with sassy quips or a personality that jumps out of the screen, but it’s still early. I feel like in Newbie seasons, it usually takes till at least the first swap to get everyone comfortable and gelling with the whole TV thing.

        At the same time, one of the early things that helps is to see players “doing survivor things” but thus far its been generally straight shooting, no need for amazing strategy, and nothing to push it. Back to the other hand, the few opportunities for “Survivor things” have happened to those who seem less aware of the significance or have just been lack luster. For example, we really haven’t had a Spencer “I can’t believe I’m on survivor” moment.

        Anyway, I have hope, but i agree, thus far nothing shiny.

    • I am sad he’s gone so soon. I feel he could have been a good points-grabber in the Underground League.

      • sharculese

        He’s gonna at least earn you some points for episode 2.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Does Lauren get points for being super ginger-racist? That is crazy reality TV shit, but it is also awful.

          • the sky is falling

            Did she just invent her own prejudice? I have never heard that people don’t like gingers

          • indescribable hat

            The phrase “red-headed stepchild” has to come from somewhere I suppose.

          • the sky is falling

            I always thought that just referred to being obviously different, not redhead hate specifically

          • indescribable hat

            Oh, could be.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Actually, considering the racism Irish immigrants faced over a century ago, I think the sentiment and phrase are all rooted in genuine discrimination.

          • DrVanNostrand

            That’s definitely true, but anti-Irish racism is really mostly an anachronism today. That’s why it was so jarring to see sincere anti-gingerism.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I would agree that it’s not as prevalent, but I don’t think any strain of racism ever truly dies out. So what’s the phrase? I was surprised but not shocked?

          • DrVanNostrand

            Definitely true. The whole thing is still just weird to me. I’m half Irish, and no one on the Irish side of my family is even remotely ginger. No one probably even knows I’m Irish because I don’t really give a shit, and outside of St. Patrick’s Day, I kind of thought no one else did, either. Also, ironically, my cousins on the non-Irish side of my family are super-gingery. This is why racism is such a failure.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Sucks for the Scottish. Is that like when Sikhs end up the victims of islamophobia?

          • Hornacek

            What about The Red-Headed League?

          • DrVanNostrand

            As I mentioned above, I’ve heard from several Australian sources that it is extremely common and genuine down there. But it’s weird to see it here in the US.

          • Maritimer

            Cartman is the only one I can think of

          • Diego Armando

            Do you need anymore lava?

          • BadPlayer91

            I’ve heard it a few times because my best friend is redhead. Honestly, she hates the term ginger, has dealt with some unfortunate discrimination, and often gets guys hitting on her by bring up body hair like it’s okay to ask a stranger about pubic hair because she’s got red hair.

          • sharculese

            It’s not okay to ask a stranger about their pubic hair? Just like, generally?

          • BadPlayer91

            Probably not for some random girl you are trying to pick up at a bar.

            …well depends on the bar.

          • I once matched with a guy on Tinder whose chief concern was with trying to confirm that I…had some. Which I guess is marginally better than guys who want to confirm that you don’t have any, but still…

          • Men: Lower the bar all you want, we’ll find a way under it.

          • Hornacek

            I’ve heard it can get you elected to the Supreme Court.

          • StormofCuteness

            I know a lot of redheads who hate the term “gingers” and have experienced lots of teasing/bullying and yes, even prejudice…but many are from Ireland/UK.

          • the sky is falling

            seems like the most foolish prejudice you could have. off the top of my head, conan obrien is a redhead. Lauren is missing out on hours of entertainment.

          • sharculese

            Fortunately, there are bunch of people I don’t have to keep score for because everyone picked Patrick, Ryan, Ali, Alan, Cole, Joe, and, for some reason, Desi, with maybe a few Devons and Mikes in there.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            No Joes?

          • sharculese

            I said Joe.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Ohhh-kay?

          • DrVanNostrand

            “These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.”

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “Move along… Move along.”

          • StormofCuteness

            Do you have scores for the 1st 2 episodes up somewhere?

          • sharculese

            No, because I have to finalize the point values today and then go back and rewatch those episodes.

  • Kingoftonga

    There’s a lot of really endearing but sort of dumb dudes on this season – Patrick, Cole, JP, Alan in his own crazy way. I thought Devon would fit this profile, but he seems pretty strategic.

    • Devon also hasn’t been on the season that much so there is that.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Ha I thought the same thing actually! My main takeaway from the episode was how dumb the guys are over all this season, compared to how smart almost all of the women are. I mean, is this the most women with advanced degrees we’ve ever seen on a season of Survivor?

    • Maritimer

      I haven’t decided yet if Devon is good/strategic or just able to parrot things Ryan has said to him

  • Jeff thinks the Hustlers are going to be in a new place of peace and unity after this tribal.

    I think that now Lauren has exorcised her greatest foe, gingers, she is going to transfer her ire to a new target.

    Luckily, there’s a swap coming, so Jeff is already going to be wrong and Lauren is going to have new candidates for hatred thus increasing the chances for me to be right. I kind of hope she ends up on a tribe with Joe so I can see what happens if he complains about the cooking again.

    • Kingoftonga

      Lauren basically played her hand correctly (bring up Patrick’s stupidity, challenge blinders, and idol hunting), but still seems like a weak contestant, really off-putting and grumpy. I get that it sucks to be the old person around a bunch of twenty-somethings, but I feel like you have to be prepared to put up with a bunch of young narcissists if you’re going on Survivor.

      • Yes, this. I think she genuinely disliked Patrick, but he was also a convenient focus for her grumpiness. He might be gone, but that will still be there. Just more…generalised.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Replace Lauren’s name with Kass and everything else is true except maybe “weak contestant.” All of it works for Randy.

        • the sky is falling

          Randy is my strongest contender for needs a third shot. along w Courtney and *ducks* Phillip Shephard 💪🏼

          • Purple Rock Emma

            I Ave never disagreed, agreed, and then disagreed again so strongly with anyone in my life.

          • Yeah, that sentence was a wild ride.

    • Maritimer

      I wouldn’t object to seeing her brain Joe with the pot

  • Star Z

    Everything is still pretty predicable because the real strategy hasn’t begun. Many people haven’t been tested on their strategic potential. Hopefully the game will really start because of the swap.

  • Other Scott

    Good on Lauren to sacrifice the high ground created by Patrick’s “based on how she looks I don’t think she’d throw much better” by going full gingerphobic

    • the sky is falling

      Kinda feeling that Lauren could still go deep as a goat

      • Other Scott

        The weird thing is that Lauren got a pretty positive edit this time aside from that. I was convinced that either Patrick was going home or all the Hustlers were being set up as season villains.

      • Star Z

        Lauren does kinda see like the goat person, but it could also go the other way. Judging by how she got everybody against Patrick she could easily do the same if the person she is aiming at is a valid target.

        • the sky is falling

          So true, even the worst survivor season is awesome to me, intrigued to see where this one goes

      • Kingoftonga

        That’s how I felt about Patrick!

    • What’s more offensive “based on how she looks I don’t think she’d throw much better” or “based on how she looks I think she’d throw a helluva lot better”?

      • DrVanNostrand

        It’s funny you mention that. I was the captain of my grad school softball team, and the second hardest thrower had Lauren’s exact build (Edit: In case it wasn’t clear, she was also a woman). The hardest thrower was a taller version of Ryan, and was a high school pitcher with a fastball in the 80s.

      • Other Scott

        Any time you start a sentence with “based on how she looks” it ain’t ending well

      • Mike Hirsch

        Neither of those are great.
        I want someone on Survivor to make “Reynold” a verb.
        “According to the information we had at hand, I thought she’d Reynold that challenge.”

        • When balls are involved or plans are stuck to or spitting is heard, it’s referred to as “Naleing it”

          • the sky is falling

            When I still used Twitter, Keith nale once liked my post, proudest social media moment ever

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I have multiple Troyzan likes.

            How do you like that bit of info @purplerockjohn:disqus ?

          • I wonder if he did that on purpose, or if his giant pendulous dong just flopped out and landed on the like button. Did you consider that? If not, I encourage you to do so. Picture it in your mind.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Still one in the heart column.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I’ve always assumed he did everything with his giant dong, so that’s what I’ve always pictured in my mind.

    • Hornacek

      I believe the correct term is anti-gingite.

  • DrVanNostrand

    I’ve generally found Patrick to be pretty obnoxious, and until today found Lauren’s side of that little feud more sympathetic. But was anyone else really bothered by her seemingly heartfelt and sincere bigotry towards gingers? I have a ginger friend from Australia who tells me it’s a really big deal down there, but I honestly always got the vibe that here in the US it was more of a jokey thing. It was kind of shocking and made me like Lauren much less.

    • the sky is falling

      I just never even knew prejudice against redheads was even a thing

    • At first I thought she was saying that she knew he was lying because he was blushing since redheads are mostly perceived to be fair skinned. But then Tribal happened.

    • Ike1

      I just figured Lauren was joking… right??? Prejudice against redheads?! Could that even possibly be a real modern-day thing?! Didn’t they laugh at tribal council at her “bigotry”? Or was that a nervous laugh? I assumed it was a dark, dry sense of humor.

      • BadPlayer91

        It felt more like nervous laughing to me. But either way, I think it’s unfortunate the show included it. Either she had an honest moment of bigotry, and the show smoothed over it like it was nothing of important, or she meant it as a joke, which I don’t think is acceptable. If she had said “I’ve never trusted a person with brown skin a day in my life” then we would be understandably up in arms. Instead, for some reason, making fun of someone’s red hair seems acceptable while making fun of their skin color is not.

        • indescribable hat

          Well the context on those is pretty different. Bias against people with red hair isn’t, like, a defining feature of our society.

          • BadPlayer91

            I’m not challenging that. But, the difference between hair color and skin color shouldn’t, in my opinion, by the difference between acceptable or unacceptable. While it may not have the same cultural impact, it is still discrimination, and their is no good or okay discrimination for me.

          • DrVanNostrand

            To try to bridge the gap, I would say that not all forms of bigotry are equally harmful, but they are all equally bullshit.

          • BadPlayer91

            That is a succinct way of phrasing what I was trying to say.

          • indescribable hat

            I agree, I just think there’s a pretty good reason we’re not all reacting with the same level of outrage we would have toward an overt expression of racist views. This can be unacceptable while still being a way less big deal.

          • danomite10

            Somebody mentioned it in another comment thread but bigotry toward redheads could be rooted in racism toward the Irish, similar to what I’ve heard before about the term “paddy wagon.”

      • DrVanNostrand

        The thing is, Lauren played it 100% straight both times. Ginger racism is weird these days, and it certainly lacks the institutional power of other forms of racism, but it does exist, and she seemed really sincere about it.

    • Purplerockmatt

      she is real life Cartman. Scott Tenorman better watch out

      • DrVanNostrand

        That’s the thing about Cartman. He’s so racist, he even holds racist views that barely even exist any more!

      • Purple Rock Emma

        You’re just hoping for a Radiohead cameo.

        • Purplerockmatt

          I am definitely not hoping for that

    • Yo Ho

      Phil (a ginger) and Alexa from The Survivor Specialists on YouTube were bothered.

    • StormofCuteness

      I found it horrifying (I also love redheads!), and it really dampered my joy that they had actually booted him.

    • Hornacek

      Ginger, please!

  • the sky is falling

    So, I went full survivor data nerd at work today and analyzed all the FTC numbers. you may be surprised to learn: there have been 87 participants in FTC, 44 women, 43 men. I was shocked to learn it has been so evenly balanced between genders.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Though 19 male winners against 15 female winners. It’s a 9% margin, so it’s not significant; but still tilted in the men’s favor.

      • the sky is falling

        Sure, but my gut feeling was that men had a more significant advantage. Turns out if you are a woman and survive the first two-3 votes, you have a shot. Unless you are black or other, then you are in trouble.

        • Other Scott

          Even then if you survive the first 3 votes you’re okay, you’re just pretty unlikely to survive those votes.

          • the sky is falling

            Yeah I mean overall minorities and old people have a harder path, but the winners are surprisingly varied

          • EmAndScoutInBK

            I really don’t feel that 27 white winners out of 35 is very racially varied, especially with the caveat of Fiji and Cook Islands (and Sandra counts twice). That means we’ve had a white winner about 77% of the time.

          • Figaro

            That’s really interesting (in a depressing way). I guess it all comes back to casting – if they cast more diverse players we’d probably see more diverse winners, but they don’t and so that isn’t the case.

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      You’ve excluded race from your data. It’s also 85, according to my count – not 87.

      64 out of 85 participants were white.
      Only 12 were men of color – 4 of whom competed on Cook Islands and Fiji.
      Only 9 were women of color – Sandra participated twice, and two of the other women of color also competed on Cook Islands and Fiji.

      I wasn’t talking about sexuality in my original comment, but since you brought it up, out of 85 FTC participants, there’s only been 3 gay people- and they’ve all been men.

      • the sky is falling

        Fine, you win. White folks clearly have an advantage. I guess my overall point is that the composition of winners and contestants is fairly close to the overall demographic breakdown of the US which is roundabout 61% white 13% black and 17% latino.
        I’m gonna try not to debate you anymore cause now its starting to look like I care more than I do about this issue. I agree there is some bias towards white males but just think most of the contestants aren’t intentionally racist or sexist.
        Sorry to belabor my point.

  • Judson Helland

    Feeling good about my almost winner pick Ryan

  • indescribable hat

    Well, it’s officially the time when for the sake of my fantasy team I stop hoping to hear more from Roark and start hoping she stays invisible until she gets rocked out at 6 or something.

    • the sky is falling

      Not looking great for her unless it’s a Kaoh Rong Michelle edit

      • StormofCuteness

        I’m thinking Aubry top 6 edit.

      • Hornacek

        Who? Doesn’t sound familiar …

    • Kingoftonga

      To be fair, we know nearly nothing about any of the healers besides diet-Tony.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        As the weather finally starts to cool down here in San Antonio I am finding myself ready for some pumpkin spice Tony.

      • We know Cole and Jessica are a couple, Mike is a penis doctor with an awkward sense of humor and Desi competed in pageants. You are right about Roark tho.

        • the sky is falling

          Can you call anyone as a no factor after 3 episodes? I’m leaning to no

          • Remember Mill vs Gen X who gave us Lucy who was a nonfactor for the first three episodes.

          • But that was more egregious because Lucy went to tribal twice during that same span. Roark has not.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Mike is going to have to have “the talk” with Jessica pretty soon.

          • sharculese

            “Jessica, it’s been eight days and somehow Cole still reeks of cannabis. Yesterday he burped and I got a contact high. I… don’t think his boys can swim.”

          • DrVanNostrand

            That’s useful information. These days, depending on the employer, contraceptive coverage could be a real issue.

          • sharculese

            Yeah, I wasn’t saying his difficulties were necessarily a bad thing. It’s all about what you’re looking for.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            He would have been helpful to Taylor on MvGX.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Tony AND the epic Cole-Jessica showmance!

    • Roark is like the Tyler of HHH. She pops up maybe once an episode (maybe not even that) to say something reasonably intelligent sounding in a confessional, but is entirely invisible the rest of the time.

      • purplerockandy

        Confessional? Has she had confessionals?

        • Hornacek

          As of this episode, she had had a confessional. She has not had confessionals.

          • He had a confessional during the premiere.

          • Hornacek

            Is Roark a “he” or are you talking about someone else?

            If that was just a typo, Roark had a confessional during the premiere? I don’t remember that at all.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Hey all TAZ people: we’re going to start our discussions next week on Monday or Tuesday over the first two or three episodes. It really depends on how much people want to listen to and if a post goes up on Monday or not. So sound off on which number you prefer.

    I would recommend starting with three episodes; it adds up to about 3:20 if you listen at the normal speed. I think three episodes is the right number for people to really tell if they’re on board or not; but if that’s too much, we can scale back to two episodes.

    I would also recommend that you listen to the supercut version of the first episode; there’s a lot of fat on the uncut version that could be trimmed. However, I know @sharculese:disqus is listening to the original version to compare to later episodes to see the growth of the pod.

    • indescribable hat

      I’m open to trying three.

    • the sky is falling

      I prefer Monday. 😂 Haha, sorry, had to piggy back on my ‘I don’t like podcasts’ comment from last week

    • sharculese

      I started listening to the uncut version and remembered it got cut down because there’s five minutes just on the time Clint met Gary Gygax. I’m still gonna power through it.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        I’d listen to that.

    • What are the first three episodes?

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        TAZ, TAX 2: Electric Boogaloo, and TAZ 3-D.

        I miss the AVClub. RIP.

        • MsFjordstone

          SNP, do you have any idea where to find discussions on current tv with displaced AV Clubbers? I’ve tried Disqus’s AV Club After Dark, but that seems to be a lot of generic, catch-all threads, too much to read through to find specific content. And Kinja needs to go and DIAF. This is the only good place to discuss Survivor, but I need great comments threads for everything else I watch!

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            AVClub After Dark seemed to just be one big cool kids club to me and they were not as forgiving with the snark as the AVClub was. There is some sort of Tolerability Index offshoot but I don’t know where it is (do you know @purplerockmatt:disqus ?). I’m not terribly familiar with TV Overmind. That may be a place to try?

          • Purplerockmatt

            yeah the Tolerability Index Forum, i’ll try and find my link to it, but I haven’t used it in awhile. It might be saved on my home computer so i’ll look for it after work

          • MsFjordstone

            YES, exactly! I felt that way, too. And thanks for the suggestions.

      • sharculese

        They’re all numbered, so just 1.5 (or 1 of you want to listen to the uncut premier), 2 and 3.

        • Thanks. I just don’t want to mess this up.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You can’t mess up D&D. Such a fun game! I hope that a lot of the listeners will be new to it.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            You can very easily mess up D&D. Or at least, screw over your party very easily.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            But even then (barring TPK) you’re still playing the game.

          • Are you referencing TPK the podcast?

          • Man, this better be as funny as you all say it is, because I have nooooooo idea what you people are talking about.

            But my boys at The Flop House love TAZ/the McElroys, so I have faith.

          • Flop House, what up!

          • Are you caught up? For a hot minute I thought Elliott’s move would mess up the rapport, and indeed there have been glitches, but they’re so minor and it seems fine. Although I don’t like that Stu and Dan watched the last movie days in advance, because they forgot a lot, and when they all watched the film on the night of recording together, that wasn’t an issue.

            HOWEVER, it was a Neil Breen extravaganza, so they’re forgiven for not quite retaining the “plot.”

          • I actually haven’t listened in almost two years. The facebook groups are pretty cool though.

          • Wow, you have so many amazing Letters songs ahead of you, if you ever restart.

          • Letters?
            Letters from fans like you and you and you

            Did you hear that it sounds like either MST3K is not coming back or Elliott is not coming back to MST3K?

          • No, and I’m a bad Kalaniac because I haven’t watched them yet.

          • Me neither.

          • sharculese

            During the Max Fun Drive switcheroo Flop House took over TAZ and did a short campaign that took place in the aftermath of the first TAZ arc. So you have that to look forward to.

          • I remember them referencing that on Flop House. Stu is a huge RPG fan so I’m sure it’s an amazing episode.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Total Party Kill. Everyone in the game dies. A good DM doesn’t let it happen.

          • Oh…there is another D and D podcast called Total Party Kill, so I thought you may have been a listener of that.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            If I commit to this, TAZ will be my second podcast.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I played some D&D in middle school, but gave up because I hated all the DMs. I think if I had played with someone like Griffin, I would never have stopped. Of course, one would expect a more nuanced approach to DMing from a grown-ass professional podcaster than a 12 year old boy.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I played a bit as a young one but quit around 20. Started again around 35 and it’s been much much better.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I played a bit as a young one but quit around 20. Started again around 35 and it’s been much much better.

          • sharculese

            It’s hard to mess up. Just start with the oldest episodes. But if it helps, the first arc is “Here There Be Gerblins.”

      • Taako From Teevhii

        Like @sharculese:disqus said, the episodes are numbered. But for ease of scrolling, you can adjust the order they come up in (at least, in Apple Podcasts you can). In the show’s settings, you can set the episode order to “Oldest to Newest” and the play order the same thing.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I can definitely burn through three TAZ episodes. I would advocate for slowing down a little in future weeks for other listeners. But I think it’s a good idea to rush in (like Magnus) to the first few episodes to get past the character creation, which is dry, and really get into the show.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I agree with a slower pace later on, but I can see some people listening to two episodes and still being on the fence about the pod. So not just getting past character creation but getting a real feel for the pod helps new listeners a bunch I think.

        • sharculese

          If we’re doing 3 episodes this week I feel like we can do 2 eps per week after that through the end of Moonlighting. Yes that puts the end of HTBG and the beginning of Moonlighting together, but I kind of like how doing that reveal as once piece works.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I think Gerblins is one of the few arcs where its works better going straight into the Lunar Interlude. Your PTTM and 11H finales need to be the jumping off points for discussions.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        We should probably also note that half of the character creation gets tossed out eventually. Like, is Taako’s last name canonically Taco? Merle is definitely not a hill dwarf, though that’s how Clint introduces him.

  • PurpleTally

    Feeling slightly better about having Lauren as my default pick in Champions League. (Well, I did have a choice, but it was her or Katrina, so really, there was no choice.)

  • Diego Armando

    Man, they did not pass up a single opportunity to make Patrick look bad.

    Also, I’m not sure Lauren should be proud of the fact that she never looked for the idol.

    • Hornacek

      I think she meant it as “I am always working at the camp, I never have any free time.”

  • PurpleTally

    Patrick looks a lot like the dad of one of my students. The dad works at a coffee shop, which, according to the student “That’s why his hair is red.”
    And that was all I could think about whenever Patrick was on screen.

  • Diego Armando

    The look on Jeff’s face after Ryan stated/complained/bragged about never having been in a relationship was a thing of beauty.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I don’t know why he made that face. Ryan is clearly spending all of his time out-heroing, out-healing, and out-hustling to be involved in a relationship. #BellhopStrong

      • DrVanNostrand

        You must make that hashtag a thing.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          There is a surprising amount of anti-hashtag negativity on this site.

          • BadPlayer91

            Never stopped me
            #MichaelaIsBAE

          • Hornacek

            I miss @Whovian automatically replying “Downvoted” to any AVClub comment that contained a hashtag.

            Thanks, Kinja!

          • sharculese

            I can’t tell if people enjoyed Whovian’s weird pathological obsessions or it was just stockholm syndrome. I though he was funny like a fifth of the time and irritating the rest of it.

          • Hornacek

            it was weird. The post could be the most well-thought out comment ever, but if it contained one hashtag, Whovian would downvote it. They stuck with their motif until the bitter end.

        • Hornacek

          Surprisingly, #BellhopsAreRealPeople has never trended.

    • Hornacek

      By this point, Jeff knows that if Ryan is at tribal, he is going to him first and that Ryan will give him some gold.

  • Maritimer

    I am really glad I’m not the only one who was initially confused about why Roark was mad that Cole was sharing the idol information without asking her first, before realizing that person was actually Jessica

    Also, Ryan is an annoying attention seeking tryhard. I take back the nice things I said about him last week

    • Diego Armando

      I have a hard time with faces anyway, so I had no idea also.

      • Hornacek

        Maybe you have nominal aphasia?

    • Purplerockmatt

      It was weird because they would show Cole talking to Roark then flash to Jessica in confessional

      • Maritimer

        Right? And we have not seen nearly enough of either of them to be expected to tell them apart

        • sharculese

          Jessica has fiercer cheekbones.

          • StormofCuteness

            Roark is less blonde.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            That’s how I was telling them apart, too 🙂 Plus Jessica looks like she dyed or tattooed her eyebrows (probably because of the blondeness)

          • Hornacek

            Are Jessica’s eyebrows going to be this season’s “Sierra Dawn Thomas’ fingernails”?

          • Maritimer

            As a relatively unobservant guy, both these things are way beyond my observational abilities

          • Purplerockmatt

            Yeah this is what I eventually figured out

        • cazkaye

          They need lower thirds and arrows pointing to them at all times they are on the screen

          • Maritimer

            Flashing neon signs would work for me

          • Hornacek

            Remember the One World premiere where they had name-captions appearing as people were talking (not in confessionals) to tell us who they were?

          • Maritimer

            Not really, but that’s mostly because I try to forget the parts of One World that weren’t Kim or Jay

          • Hornacek

            It was only in the first episode – I guess the producers thought since everyone was on the same beach we needed help learning everyone’s names and keeping them straight. From what I recall, the reaction was negative and they dropped it after the premiere.

          • Maritimer

            My favourite part is when the producers think we are all stupid

          • Hornacek

            My theory is that they copied it from Fox Sports when they aired NHL in the 90s and added a glowing circle around the puck because they thought the viewers were too dumb to be able to follow the puck.

          • Maritimer

            That happened again recently with NBC too I’m pretty sure. A circle and possibly also a trailing line to follow its path

          • Hornacek

            The Fox Sports glowing puck era also had a red arrow appear when someone shot the puck to show its path from shooter to target.

      • This is so much like the Beauty girls of KR, but at least we knew they were tight.

        • sharculese

          Beauty pt. 2 had the young one, the one who likes it when children die of preventable disease, and the other one. That’s way more distinct than the healer women.

          • I like to think of the second one as the one who thought confessionals was a prime time for doing her centerfold.

          • Maritimer

            Honestly, until I knew she was an anti-vaxxer (aka during the season) I knew her in my head as the one with the boobs, which I understand is terrible

          • It can be two (or three) things.

          • DrVanNostrand

            In fairness, I’m sure the editors were about 95% to blame for that one.

          • Hornacek
          • DrVanNostrand

            Those were more innocent times. Back when we all thought anti-vaxxers were more dangerous than people who supported a racist, narcissist, lunatic who would never actually win the Presidency.

          • Diego Armando

            She was both.

        • Hornacek
    • Judson Helland

      I like ryan. He got on tv, he’s playing it up . Give him a break ☹ pouting now

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Maritime is a person of the sea. They often get crabby.

        • Hornacek

          They often get crabs.

          As in catching crabs in the ocean. What did you think I meant?

      • Maritimer

        I keep trying to like Ryan. I was good all episode until the never had girlfriend thing and yet another laboured analogy at Tribal which he clearly has spent months and/or years working on. If he would stop that, I could like him

      • Violina23

        He’s livening up his tribe. He’s interesting and I don’t *hate* him. That’s OK in my Survivor book

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      The weird thing about Ryan is that he actually seems to be playing a pretty good game so far and is liked by his tribemates. He’s just insufferable in confessionals and at tribal.

      • Maritimer

        I agree with this. Its the laboured analogies and camera seeking statements that bug me. Based on his tribemates (specifically Devon) and watching his interactions I bet he’s actually a decent guy to be around. Mind you, I liked Spencer and didn’t like Cochran so I’m not even internally consistent on my reaction to camera seeking behaviour

        • StormofCuteness

          Didn’t like Cochran?! 😱

          • Maritimer

            Don’t tell Emma

          • StormofCuteness

            Or me! I love Cochran…rawr.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            smh.

      • Hornacek

        The fact that his tribe went to tribal twice and Ryan’s name was never even considered by anyone (as far as we know) is a sign of Ryan’s strong social game. I think in the pre-season many people thought “For Ryan to do well, he has to hope his tribe doesn’t go to tribal before the merge, because if they do go to tribal, he’s getting voted out.”

    • Kemper Boyd

      I was confused why Jessica was being told again but it was Roark.

      • Hornacek

        That is so Roark! Always hogging the spotlight!

    • By The Numbers

      Ryan would be much better if he didn’t know he was being filmed

  • Maritimer

    Also, when Patrick and Lauren were talking about idols, and Patrick is talking about Lauren saying she hasn’t been looking for idols so she doesn’t have one, and Lauren says she has two of them, was that a Val Collins reference?

    • Val now has more mentions as a non-player than Aubry last season.

      • Diego Armando

        I realized today that Aubry in Game Changers was pretty much Eddie from Caramoan. Every potential alliance they had collapsed. They were seemingly on the wrong end of every vote. They survived for a while by being less threatening than whoever just emerged. They were given Idols.

        • StormofCuteness

          Having just rewatched Caramoan, this seems spot on…except that Eddie got a way larger edit.

          • Something Quirky

            That’s because Aubry never mentioned a dog bar.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Probably. It would be a weird thing to say otherwise. However, we do have one example of a person who said that, back when it wasn’t even a reference.

      • Maritimer

        It was just so randomly thrown out there I feel like it has to be

    • Figaro

      On that point, the way she completely deadpanned “I have two idols” made me think it was more likely that she was also joking about the ‘I hate gingers’ thing, but she just has a very very dry sense of humour where it almost doesn’t even come across as if she’s joking.

  • One great butt down, four to go. But, man, Red went Full Asshole real quick at the end there.

    • Are you just describing your weekend, or are you discussing Survivor? I’m confused.

      • It’s Wednesday, John. There’s no time to waste.

  • turgid_legume

    Pat will land on his feet I’m sure. I hear the Foundation for Resting Shit-Eating-Grin Face (FRSEGF) is looking for a spokesperson.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Also a great candidate for the Anti-Ginger Defamation League (AGDL)

    • DrVanNostrand

      I used to like Ali, but now that I know she has a long history of associating with gingers…

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Once you go red, it’s the last kind you bed.

        • Mike Hirsch

          Dead before red!

    • This sent me into a tailspin of her Twitter feed, then Patrick’s Instagram, then the insane comments and replies by previous Survivor contestants, so I’ll never forgive you.

    • Hornacek

      I can’t see anything after “update:”, thanks company firewall! Can you summarize what this is?

      • Yeah, Ali tweeted out a picture of her and Pat from college where they are standing next to each other. So, at the very least, they ran in the same friend group.

        • Hornacek

          Oh, ok. That’s not much of an update. I mean, we knew that they knew each other in college.

          • I think it’s good to know how fairly close they were.

          • Hornacek

            They were close enough that he was in her bed.. Or on it. Maybe under it. I don’t know what method he used to carry the mattress.

            (assuming it was Ali’s mattress that he moved; I have heard this, but have also heard it was a friend of Ali’s)

  • Amanda LaPergola

    I would like to think that Patrick watched this tonight and learned a little bit about relationships and the way he projects himself, but, on the other hand ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    • purplerockandy

      Yeah… there’s no way.

  • Judson Helland

    I just finished watching Heroes verus villains for the first time today and I want to defend the legacy of my man, Colby Donaldson, challenge beast. You can make your points about how he repeatedly lost to Sandra in immunity challenges, or how he got owned by coach, i don’t care. Colby Donaldson won the shuffleboard reward! The same thing that took out my beloved Tyson! Colby Donaldson is legit y’all. #alwaysfaithfull

    • Please direct your attention to this post: http://www.purplerockpodcast.com/survivor-fan-friction-colby-donaldson/. I got you covered

      • Judson Helland

        Barbara, your my hero

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Pardon my French, but Barbara Anderson is such a witch that if you stuck eye of newt in her cauldron in two weeks you’d have a spot in Champions League.

          • What do you mean by that?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            It’s a variation on a Ferris Bueler quote. I probably should stop doing that. It’s what originally got me kicked off of AVClub.

          • Shit, it completely went over my head.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “You can do it on the boat!”

            Geez. Elderly is on the horizon.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Gee!

          • StormofCuteness

            I’m Gen-X and had no clue other than thinking it was Macbeth reference…

          • purplerockandy

            B.A. is a millennial. I’ll bet her entire frame of reference for Ferris Bueller is gifs.

          • Excuse me, I own it on DVD with the John Hughes commentary, thank you very much.

          • Purplerockmatt

            It took me like 50 viewings to get the joke on that lump of coal joke

          • Hornacek

            I thought it was all your pro-bellhop talk.

            Folks, it didn’t start with this season.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          She thinks she’s a villain!

          • I totally am a villain.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You merely have Candice levels of villainy.

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    If they ever did another HvV season again do you think that Scot or Kyle/Jason would be on it? How about Varner?

    • Max_Jets

      Varner – definitely not
      Scot – probably not
      Jason – ehhh maybe, but only if they really need another guy villain

      I think Scot and Jason voting for Michele instead of Aubry really made production sour on them, otherwise they would have been prime candidates (but not together).

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Who is the “worst player that they’ve brought back? Brandon?

        • Max_Jets

          Colton

          • StormofCuteness

            Egads, forgot about Colton. Ugh

        • StormofCuteness

          Just rewatched Caramoan so YES! Also feel this way about Phillip.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I’m not so anti-Phillip.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I’m pretty anti-Phillip, but he’s not as bad a Brandon or Colton. I mean, they basically invented a new tier of awful.

        • The answer is definitely Brandon, followed by Colton. But I’m also going to toss in a vote for Abi-Maria (if you have to play with her. It’s not so bad if you’re just watching).

          • BadPlayer91

            I was about to get on my knee-high Abi-Maria fighting boots, but then I read the parentheses, and was able to stay in my cozy PRP slippers.

          • Hornacek

            “PRP slippers” – now I want these!

          • Guarantee those boots are leopard print.

          • purplerockandy

            I’m gonna say that it was obviously Brandon in retrospect, but Colton was a worse decision before seeing the outcome. Brandon had an almost friendly, redemption arc in SoPa, so you can almost understand the thinking of bringing him back (while thinking “maybe he’s grown up in the time away”). There’s no defence for choosing to bring Colton back.

          • Hornacek

            As I’ve said before, according to post-season interviews, the majority of the SoPa jury/final three have said that if Brandon had made it to the finals he would have easily won (which always confounds Rob when this is mentioned on RHAP). So I guess I can kinda understand Production looking at this and thinking “This guy almost won, the other players like him, he deserves a … second chance.”

            But yeah, no excuse for Colton. Were viewers really clamoring for him to play again?

        • the sky is falling

          Brandon is obviously the worst. But I’d put Franchesqua on that list too.
          Voted out twice on the first day. Arguably due to overplaying and making the exact same mistakes twice.

          • Hornacek

            She was voted out at the first tribal, not the first day. Plus she still appeared for a few more episodes in RI because of, well, RI.

      • BadPlayer91

        The only reason I think they won’t bring back Varner is that he’s almost aged out. Otherwise, I’m not confident production wouldn’t make the terrible mistake of bringing him back just for the controversy of it. The GC reunion made me question that they understand we don’t want to see him anymore…

        I agree with your Scot/Jason conclusion. Their last villainous move was an instrumental hand in giving Michele the win, and Probst has showed dislike for basically anything related to Michele, lol. One might make it back though, they were one of the better villains in reason season (besides ultimate villain Abi-amazing-Maria.

        • sharculese

          Varner won’t be asked back because they’d rather have Zeke 3.0.

    • Hornacek

      The thing about HvV is that the villains were (for the most part) players we wanted to see again and liked in spite of (or because of) their villainy. I don’t think any of the three you mentioned fit into that category.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Unfortunately I think the way they’ve been casting villains lately has really hurt the odds of ever having another HvV season that’s any good. There aren’t many recent “villains” I’d really want to see again because they’re so over the top and unlikable. The only original villain I feel that way about was probably Russell.
        Just thinking about people who’ve played since the original HvV, I’d say Kass sticks out as the only real villain I’d want to see again. And I guess maybe Rodney, though I’m not pining for his return by any means.

        • Maritimer

          There are some options, if you use the Survivor definition of Villain as “gives snarky confessionals” – Sophie, arguably Jay, Ryan this season probably, KR Nick, SP Christine, Ciera, etc

          • I personally think Ciera is done, especially since the other three Witches would be in contention for this season.

          • Maritimer

            I think so too, for now at least, I was just throwing her out there as a potential villain. Kass and Abi are both more likely

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Yeah all right, I would not mind seeing most of those people again. But that would potentially be quite a watered down villain tribe. Then again, who would the heroes be? Denise S for sure, Zeke (maybe?), Aubry?

          • sharculese

            Zeke would be a Villain.

          • I don’t think Production could ever do that, especially after the outing.

          • sharculese

            I don’t think he’d agree to it if they didn’t let him be a Villain.

          • But, imagine people being like “He’s a villain after what he went through”. Most people would just say that his attempt to get out Andrea was a massive overcorrection after the outing.

          • sharculese

            He’s a devious schemer who plays fast and loose and is snarky in confessionals. He was built for the Villains. Putting on the Heroes because of what happened in Game Changers is exactly the kind of narrative pigeonholing as ‘the trans Survivor’ he was trying to avoid.

            If he’s comfortable with that being his story, fine, but if he shows any reticence about letting that incident define who he is as a TV character then let him be a Villain and tell anyone who doesn’t like it to go pound sand. Villains have more fun.

          • Excellent Abi Maria reference!

          • BadPlayer91

            Praise for Abi-Maria reference. I 100% agree with the heart of this, he should get to play based on what he wants to portray, and Zeke the player is clearly built for the Villains tribe. That being said, i’m just skeptical the show will allow that. They won’t want to acknowledge that it was Zeke’s choice as to where he went, and they won’t want to handle the backlash over calling him a Villain. Honestly, I think it would just be better he wasn’t on a HvV season, but if so, i think it’s more likely he would be a hero.

          • the sky is falling

            I agree that Zeke would need be a Villain and also that there would be some backlash. However, the concept of Cook Islands was ‘race wars’ and CBS survived that, so I think they would be ok.

          • purplerockandy

            I think Zeke would just opt out of a season called HvV if he had the option.

          • Violina23

            I don’t see Zeke playing again. As much as he wants to (and deserves to be) known for his gameplay, it will always be about what happened in GC for whichever players he competes against.

          • purplerockandy

            I don’t see it happening soon. But given time.

          • I like that you think he would make any sort of demands, rather than just immediately agreeing to play again.

          • sharculese

            Your probably right, but I hope they wouldn’t put him in that situation. If they want Zeke back it should be for what he did, not what he was done to him.

          • Well said.

          • No fucking way. They would never.

          • BadPlayer91

            Yeah. After MvGX Zeke could have been a villain. After GC, he cannot be.

          • Wentworth, Malcolm, Adam…

          • Maritimer

            What Barbara said, plus David, Jeremy, maybe one of Jonclyn, Hayden, Survivor Goddess Kim Spradlin

          • I would throw Tai into consideration.

          • Maritimer

            Nah, too gamebotty

          • Natalie Anderson is a lock to be invited back, though she could fit in as either a hero or a villain depending on how they wanted to spin it. David Wright, again…could be either hero or villain.

            Carolyn would have a decent chance to get invited back to a villains tribe, based on both demographic and the fact that she’s one of the least-unpalatable of the Worlds apart endgame.

            I do think they blew a lot of their good heroes and villains on gamechangers though. What a waste.

          • the sky is falling

            My definition of villain is ‘ringleader of spy organization’ who does that give us?

          • Maritimer

            There’s someone on the tip of my tongue. There was a guy who maybe worked for some kind of federal agency. The IRS maybe?

          • sharculese

            Dan Foley?

          • Hornacek

            Cobra Commander?

        • Max_Jets

          Tony?

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Not pining for a Rodney return? What about all the joy he brings with him?

          • Hornacek

            If Rodney returns, it *has* to be on a Feb-May season. For obvious reasons.

      • BadPlayer91

        But you know who does?

        ABI-MOTHERFUCKING-MARIA!

        Also, side thought; could they have given Brad Culpepper a last episodes he’s-gonna-lose Villains edit just to make him seem like a plausible HvV2 cast member? I really hope not….

        • First of all, we have discussed this. Abi-Maria is a virtual lock for Villains 2.0. Also, I don’t see Probst making Brad a villain. They had to do that to say “Here’s why he’s not winning”. We call that the Fishbach edit.

          • BadPlayer91

            I really just wanted your reassurance, both that Abi would return and Brad wouldn’t.

        • Hornacek

          Downvoted for suggesting that Abi-Maria would be a player I’d like to see back and root for. Once was more than enough, and twice was twice too many.

          I’ve said it before, but after seeing Abi in Second Chances, it made me sympathize with RC (game-RC, not real life RC) for what happened with her and Abi in Philippines, and agree with her (rumored) decision not to participate in the Second Chances nominations when she found out Abi would be participating too.

          If Abi returned for another all-star season, I just can’t understand anyone thinking that they could work with her. If she wasn’t the first one voted out, her tribe would be idiots.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Nah, lean into it.

        Varner, Scot, Kyle, Will Sims II, Dan Foley

        Abi-Maria, Alecia, J’Tia, Kass, Michele

        (Note: It’s saying something that I couldn’t fit Rocker in, and that I had to make a joke to get to five female villains)

        • sharculese

          The only way I’m okay with this is if Abi unhinges her jaw and devours the rest of them whole.

        • Hornacek

          Are you trying to get me to quit watching the show? Because if you are, this may do it.

        • Violina23

          No more Varner. Ever.

          In general, I would say no more of the truly hateful people. No Will, No Dan, No J’Tia, No Alecia.

          More of the “sneaky” variety of villain. Kass & Abi-Maria are perfect (although I’m personally done with Abi)

          • MsFjordstone

            What did Alecia do that was hateful? Seriously, all I can remember was her being bullied by Kyle and Scot.

          • Violina23

            I think I’m mixing her up with the Alecia in… One world, I think? There was a really nasty mean-spirited human that was basically the epitome of “Mean girl”

  • StormofCuteness

    It continues to suck to miss all the fun because I’m on the West Coast, but I really enjoyed that Matt’s running commentary matched the one going on in our home.

    Patrick was a doofus and deserved to go home, but Lauren’s red-head hatred is just no.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I try and give everyone an unfiltered look into how wrong I am every week.

  • cazkaye

    I picked all three healer women in the fantasy league. Still trying to work out if that was a good move.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Hmm, there’s the hot one, the virgin that wants to bone Cole, and the other one. It’s possible that one of them makes it far, but I don’t see a winner coming out of that group.

      • cazkaye

        my money is on the hot one at the moment

    • Violina23

      I didn’t realize when I drafted that I have 3 Healers (but not all the same gender), I have a lot of eggs in one basket…

  • Last week I introduced a friend to Survivor via episodes 1 & 2. He is coming over tonight to watch episode 3. Should I:

    a) show him episode 3?
    b) show him a different series?

    (Apparently he has also done some research this week via means of watching some youtube clips. These clips were a Tony highlight montage, something about Rob vs Russell and [via me] Natalie blindsiding Baylor.)

    • Always risky having someone watch a currently-airing season, because you don’t know how good or bad the season will turn out to be. I made a big pitch to a few friends to get them to watch Worlds Apart when it aired because I was all in on the preseason hype, and I apologized profusely to them afterwards.

      • Yeah, I am afraid of something like that. I’m trying to decide which one season I would try to get him to watch. I’m thinking it needs to be recent-ish, contain all the classic Survivor elements, but not anything that’s going to require a vast amount of explanation/backstory. And also have a satisfying winner.

        • purplerockandy

          MvGX could be a good bet. Or Philippines.

        • StormofCuteness

          I’m with everyone who said Phillipines.

      • I got real lucky with MvGX and @purpletally.

    • Maritimer

      Could you talk him into two things? The current season AND Cagayan, since it seems he likes Tony

      • The problem with watching Cagayan too soon is that it’ll ruin other seasons for you. You have to have enough experience with the show to think that Tony couldn’t possibly win.

        • Maritimer

          I know, it wouldn’t be my normal recommendation, but if Tony clips got him interested, I would say you gotta steer into it to get them into Survivor. That said, I’m not even sure you have to be a regular Survivor watcher to initially think Tony wouldn’t win

          • I think the Tony clips are probably just one of the first things to pop up when you type Survivor into youtube.

            Weirdly I think Redemption Island is pretty good as a starter season if you just want someone to see a tutorial in how to play the game. And MvGenX had some great TV.

            I LOVE the endgame of SJDS, but I think a BvW season is not a great entryway.

          • Maritimer

            MvGx would be good. Couple of meta references though. I think you need to go before meta-Survivor, which I think starts at Cambodia.

            Tocantins and Pearl Islands are also good options, though PI may be a bit old school for this

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I think Survivor moves in phases. There’s the Old School Era (1-11), the HII Era (12-20; yes it showed up before that, but it was never played correctly. Alt name: Exile Island Era, but is that better?), the Dark Ages (21-24), the Renaissance (25-29), and Meta Era(30-present).

            I like the term meta-survivor, and really the only reason Worlds Apart made it in there is bc Max and Shirin are essentially the heralds of the new era.

            But looking at that, I think a season from the Renaissance would be the most relevant to present-day Survivor without going into the Meta Era. The problem is that 25-27 require you to know previous players and 28-29 are not right for a first season. Despite that, I think Philippines is the best starting point. None of the three returnees go out late enough in their original* season for the spoiler of their exits to ruin your viewing of it. There are clear heroes and clear villains. And the gameplay overall is extremely balanced.

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, those phases seem about right, though the lines can be a bit blurry, as you note with WA. Era 2 does need a better name though.

            If you want to stay new school with a first season, I do co-sign Philippines. You don’t really need to know anything about the returning players and its good Survivor – both strategy and character wise

          • BadPlayer91

            Ditto on Philippines. I watched it not knowing the 3 returnees (and I still haven’t watched one of their’s season) and it didn’t impact it. The ‘3 returnees’ element seems to blur and become unimportant so fast, in the shadow of great players and interesting newer stories, that it didn’t ruin anything for me, or my friend I showed it to as her Survivor introduction.

          • Yeah, there is no real references to their other season besides the montage at the beginning.

          • sharculese

            The stuff about Russell trying and failing not to take command of Matsing carries on a few episodes makes less sense if you haven’t seen Samoa first.

            Also, if you watch Philippines first, when you get to Australia [REDACTED] is much more obviously a bumbling doofus.

          • Dammit, good point (as always) Sharcy.

          • Agreed on Philippines being the choice here. It’s modern enough, has a good cast, and has enough gameplay elements to be interesting. And a certain podcast I know recently rewatched it and has coverage of it, if you’re into that sort of thing.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Oh that sounds good, which podcast?

          • The Adventure Zone.

          • Purplerockmatt

            How did I miss that episode?!? (They do actually make Survivor references on The Adventure Zone at times)

          • By The Numbers

            I started with Philippines and loved it. Perfect balance of gameplay and characters for a new viewer, and a satisfying winner

          • MvGX references Parvati, Cochran, and Tony, which may not be good for a newbie to have those names in his head.

          • BadPlayer91

            This is true, but also, I feel like any season 25 or after, you are probably going to run into some name drops that, if you remember them, could spoil you on things. It’s just part of watching modern seasons, you will learn things, but the only other option is to watch from the beginning (and if you’re me, avoid the PRP comments entirely. Thus why i’m generally pretty spoiled, lol).

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, its just the best option if you want to stay really recent. It wouldn’t be my first pick but it would work. Also, you wouldn’t really understand how odd the (somewhat) fluid alliances are.

          • BadPlayer91

            I’d go with Philippines. Everyone who i’ve started on Philippines now watches regularly, because it’s so good, has just enough twist to give a taste of modern survivor, but in a package that is very classic, and it’s full to the brim with interesting characters. It’s probably top of my list for most modernly accessible to a first time viewer.

            Bonus if they’ve seen the Facts of Life.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Count me as another Philippines recommendation. However, I wonder if a newbie would be able to appreciate Denise’s gameplay, or would just think Malcolm was robbed. Depending on your friend’s tolerance for the likes of Colton and Alecia, I almost want to recommend One World, since Kim’s game is so much easier to understand.

            I’d also note that my first season was Caramoan, and I loved the show immediately. I didn’t know enough to realize how awful the pre-merge was, and I didn’t really care about the backstories of the returnees. So maybe you don’t necessarily need to show your friend a top-notch season (so long as it’s eventful) and maybe returnees aren’t a dealbreaker.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I think the show does a good job during the season in showing how and why Denise is playing well

        • sharculese

          That’s what happened to me and I turned out… I guess fine is a little strong. But I turned out!

    • the sky is falling

      If I’d never seen an episode I think I’d be intrigued by any season. Is Borneo hopelessly dated at this point? Havent watched it in a while. That season had plenty of good stuff if I remember correctly.
      Greg, Gervase, Colleen, Dr. Sean, Jenna Lewis, Hatch, Susan, Rudy, Wiggles. I remember it quite fondly. Also, its important to understand what ‘Pagonging’ is. And its the birth of Alliances.

      EDIT: I’m frightened that I remembered most of the cast without google. After looking at wiki, have no idea who Dirk or Joel are tho

  • Mike Hirsch

    In the end, I felt a little bad for Patrick. It’s like having a toddler that *loves* Batman. Like, he sees Batman, and he gets excited and exclaims, “Bat-Bat!” So you decide, “Ok Patrick, here are a Pop doll of Batman and a mini-Pop doll of Batman,” and he’s super delighted and says “Mama Bat-Bat! Baby Bat-Bat!” and has fun playing with them, and then you take them away from Patrick, and his little heart breaks. The Pop dolls are Survivor. He will be ok after a nap and a squeezable yogurt pouch.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      You haven’t gotten out much since Max was born, have you?

      • Mike Hirsch

        What is out?

        • Violina23

          Is it similar to that “vacation” thing I’ve heard about?

    • Violina23

      You win PRP today. Easily.

  • Hornacek

    Here’s something I read in the comments on EW.com. Before the challenge the tribes were told that they couldn’t start stacking their blocks until they had gathered all of the blocks onto the mat (pretty standard in a challenge broken into sections). So since they missed a block, technically they shouldn’t have been allowed to start stacking their blocks when they did. I can understand the show seeing that they had missed a block and knowing this would make great TV but according to the challenge rules, isn’t their win (or non-loss) ineligible?

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Jeff really screwed that one up. I hope his boss gives him what for.
      But seriously, you’re totally right – what probably should have happened is that when they started stacking, Jeff should have done his classic “NO NO, something’s not RIGHT!” then and there, instead of when they thought they were finished. Then they should have had to knock down their tower, find the missing piece, and then start over with stacking.

      • BadPlayer91

        Somewhat related: My boyfriend’s brother spent the whole time arguing about how they should have just placed the final blocks by lifting up the ones below and scooting it under. I agree with this concept, as it would mean the tall guys could complete the tower without lifting people up, but I’m guessing that there was a rule against this, for the exact reason that they wanted to force tribe teamwork to life a person really high.

        • I think that is why Joe in KR got hurt in this very challenge.

        • sharculese

          Those towers aren’t very stable. Lifting them up is playing with fire.

          • BadPlayer91

            But what if you only lifted up the smaller blocks to put the final one in place? Like, you have your tallest two lift up only the section above the highest point they could reach. You might risk the 4-5 blocks fall, but it would still be quicker (in theory) then figuring out how to raise an entire person up to the top level.

          • sharculese

            If that’s the plan you might as well just make a multi-block stack on the ground. One tribe (Brains maybe?) were doing that in Kaoh Rong.

        • Maritimer

          I wouldn’t think its against the rules, just nobody thought of it

        • Kemper Boyd

          Didn’t they try this the first season they did this challenge? (I think Kaoh Rong?) and it didn’t work because of the instability

      • i and 1

        That would’ve been better than what we got. I kind of would prefer the less generous solution which would be to make them start over after finally getting the blocks all gathered on the mat. This might be because I was worried about my pick-4 Patrick at that point.

        • Hornacek

          How would that work? Would the players have to take the blocks back and throw them on the ground where they had been knocked off? Or would they bring in Production to take them back because if the players did that they might have just dumped them in one pile instead of them being all spread out.

          • i and 1

            Sorry, I misspoke there I think. What I meant to suggest is that the blocks should all be placed on the ground (i.e. knock down the tower and make them rebuild, now that the last one has been brought over). But what you are asking here is something I hadn’t thought through, I believe–it would definitely be a “cleaner” interpretation of the rules if the blocks all needed to be returned to that first knock-down area mat and then carried back to the tower assembly area again. That would create additional delay that I’d be fine with, but I think minor compared to the time needed for rebuilding.

            (NOTE: without rewatching, I am extremely likely to get details completely wrong about what mats might be where for what purpose.)

          • Hornacek

            We should have gotten Jeff walking over to their tower and kicking it over, like this: https://i0.wp.com/insidesurvivor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/MicheleWInner.png

          • i and 1

            Heh, well either way, I think we would likely get some comedy from the upper blocks raining down on whoever takes care of knocking the tower down. Preferably Probst.

          • Hornacek

            Didn’t someone get hit in the head by a block in this type of challenge? Or a similar challenge where blocks were stacked? Kelly (?) from WA got hit in the head and bled, but I think that was the blindfold challenge.

    • sharculese

      In all likelihood the team running the challenge didn’t notice the missing block until the Beautiful White Collar Healers had already started stacking, and decided to run with it.

      • Hornacek

        According to Jeff’s EW.com interview this morning, Production instantly spotted that the Healers had missed a block, before they even started stacking. He says they have enough people/cameras to watch every single person during a challenge.

    • It was fairly hidden by the sandbags, but the cameras got a shot of it.

      • Hornacek

        Yeah, Production knew about it instantly.

  • Hornacek

    If Cole gets swapped to another beach, I hope he finds the idol at the well immediately.

    Or if it is a swap into 2 tribes and 1 person gets sent to Exile Beach (which isn’t the Healers beach), and Cole is the odd one out, he gets sent to EB, finds the idol at the well there, then rejoins the tribe not at original Healers beach and finds the idol at the well there too. Blam, two idols.

    Of course for this to work, Joe needs to stay at Healers beach.

    • My hunch is that one of the Healer women is with Joe and leads the charge to blindside him.

      • For fantasy purposes, I hope Joe ends up on another beach and finds a second idol.

        • Hornacek

          Oh wait, Joe is actually on one of my fantasy teams.

          Go Joe! Find that other idol!

        • Violina23

          Hear Hear!

      • Maritimer

        That would explain that Healers scene, because I don’t think Jessica is moving against Cole

        • Purplerockmatt

          well as a virgin I’m not sure she would even know how to move against Cole

          • Mike Hirsch

            It kind of sounds like you’re calling yourself a virgin.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Don’t be so judgmental. Everyone moves at their own pace.

          • TheForRealDeal

            Being a virgin is all the rage these days. Have you seen that Ryan guy?

          • Mike Hirsch

            Don’t I know it.

        • purplerockandy

          That just ruined my fan fiction.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    You guys I have to share two potentially unpopular opinions:
    1. I personally don’t think Cole’s face is that cute (where are his irises??)
    2. I don’t think Cole is good at Survivor at all, and I think he will be gone by the early merge at the latest.

    • gouis

      Yeah you’re right.

    • Have we really dived into the idol sharing conversation yet?

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Not that I’ve seen. I’m actually really curious what other people think about that scene. It was weird to me, because we got the whole thing from Jessica’s perspective. The way it was played on the show was the major cue for me that Cole is not going to do great. But setting that aside, he seems like he just doesn’t think before he speaks/acts and maybe he’s a little too honest for his own good (what with Joe and the idol clue). Not checking in with Jessica before bringing in the other two women was not great for alliance management with her, plus the fact that he just blabbed it in a large group like that instead of feeling people out more strategically. All in all I’d say not a great move, though it seems unlikely that it will hurt him that bad at this early stage (especially with Joe being such an obvious target for the vote). More likely, I think it will just be part of a pattern of Cole not really fully getting Survivor strategy, but still trying to play the game.

        • But we also got the other two women saying that this was a really great plan.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Honestly I think it is a sign of trouble for Jessica, not trouble for Cole

          • Yeah, because it shows that she is fairly limited in her alliances on that tribe. She seemingly only has Cole, while Cole has connections with everyone (with the possible exception of Dr. Mike).

          • Maritimer

            I think in his conversation with the women he referenced being able to get Mike to vote with them. Though that may not indicate a connection so much as that convincing Mike to save his own skin shouldn’t be that hard

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            True, so maybe the bad edit was more about Jessica than Cole? Basically I left the scene thinking their ‘power couple’ wouldn’t be around long.

        • It was interesting, because Jessica was technically right, but also sort of wrong.

          She was completely right that discussing a blindside before they even knew that they had to go to tribal council was a bad move.

          But she also seemed to object to the whole concept of Cole getting the other women on-side, like the only alliance she was interested in was him and her. It’s uncharitable to say it came off as jealousy that he was also forming connections with the other women…but that’s sort of how it came off.

          What we don’t know is what sort of relationship Jessica has with the rest of the tribe. Her entire network, as portrayed, seems to consist of Cole. At least Ashley seems to be actively making other connections alongside JP.

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            I also suspected jealousy and then felt a bit weird about accusing Jessica that way so I left it out of my original comment. But yeah… she seemed a little jealous :/

          • It could purely be that she’s not jealous, she just thought it was bad gameplay. And she could have great connections with the other women that the editors simply haven’t bothered to show us. It wouldn’t be the first time. We’ll see how it unfolds.

          • Other Scott

            I’m going to defend the discussion of the idol before going to tribal thing.

            If you wait until after tribal, where you only have a couple hours, there’s pretty much going to be a sense of “NOW you come to us with this!” Whereas this way you build the alliance early, everyone has a chance to get on board and there’s minimal scrambling.

            The risk is that there’s more time for this plan to get to Joe, but if you’re Cole are you really worried about straight women siding with Joe over him?

          • Maritimer

            Plus, I think it’s going to work out with the swap. He’s built trust with Roark and Desi which could pay off if they end up on the same tribe

          • Hornacek

            When Cole started discussing this with Desi and Roark, I thought that he might be thinking of throwing the challenge to vote out Joe. Otherwise, as has been said, why discuss it unless you know you’re going to tribal?

            On KIA last night Rob reminded me that in Josh’s pre-season interview with Cole, when asked “what is the sneakiest thing you would be willing to do?”, he replied that he would be willing to throw a challenge to get rid of a Tony-like player. At this point he had seen, but not talked with, Joe, but he didn’t say anything like “There’s one guy here who looks a bit like Tony”.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          As an in-game move it’s terrible for the reasons discussed, but for entertainment value and the course of the game it’s inadvertently great, because it makes it highly likely that however the tribes are mixed. Joe’s going to be on a tribe with someone who knows about his idol, unbeknownst to him.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Does Mike know about Joe’s idol? Because Mike and Joe to one tribe and everyone else to the other would isolate Joe from everyone who knows about his idol. Though with that said, Mike and Joe being together would be great because it forces Joe to either work with his mortal enemy or against his own self-interests.

          • Hornacek

            It seems that everyone on the Healers tribe knows that Joe has the idol except for Dr. Mike. It would be fitting if in the swap next week, the only Healers on one of the new tribes are Joe and Dr. Mike.

      • Mike Hirsch

        It’s one of those “it’s a good idea if it works, a bad idea if it doesn’t” ideas. The idea of putting the target on anyone other than Cole, specifically someone who has an idol, isn’t terrible. I don’t think Cole was making himself a target for sharing the knowledge that he had, except possibly in Jessica’s eyes. He should have conferred with her to determine the best time to tell Desi and Roark. She has a legit grievance there.

    • BadPlayer91

      What is face lacks in eyeballs, his body makes up for in BEING SWOLL AS FUCK

      perspective.

      • indescribable hat

        Now I have the opposite preferences. Cole’s face is cute but his body is a bit excessive for my tastes.

        • Other Scott

          The face doesn’t really fit the body – the face is like cute boy next door type look and the body is like almost bodybuilder-esque

          • BadPlayer91

            This is kinda true. If Cole was to stop working out and eat unhealthy for like, a month, it might add just the right amount of body fat to make him irresistible.

        • BadPlayer91

          I ain’t got no problem with either. #easilypleased

    • Maritimer

      1. His smile though. That’s what I find so stunning.
      2. Can’t really argue with this

    • Ms_Woozah

      1. Disagree.
      2. Agree.

    • TheForRealDeal
      • Hornacek

        Is that Nacho Libre?

        • TheForRealDeal

          It’s Cole! You know, from Survivor.

    • Roswulf

      1. Cole has a face? No but seriously, I have no memory of Cole’s face. I have room in my brain to remember the faces of two young buff white guys, and I’ve inexplicably settled on Devon and JP.

      2. I think he has obvious skills and obvious flaws. I have no sense of his fate based on what we’ve seen. Perils of not going to tribal.

      • Maritimer

        Honestly, mine are JP and Cole. Devon is the one I kind of forget about. I think we all remember JP because we talk about how bland he is. Also, he’s getting real island hot. He may end up passing Cole for me

        • Max_Jets

          Yeah, JP made a huge leap forward between episode 2 and 3.

      • Violina23

        For some reason when I try to remember what Cole looks like, I’m getting JT with a WAY more buff/muscular body.

    • Blurry Denzel

      Cole has a face? I didn’t see it anywhere on his abs.

    • purplerockandy

      Pretty crazy leap in logic to assume that a young, buff guy will be gone by the early merge.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Are you guys doing a live podcast tonight?

        • purplerockandy

          Nope. John will never reveal how sad his podcast set-up is.

          • purplerockandy

            Now, to be fair to John (which is my least favourite thing!), his sad set-up results in far superior audio quality. As does his tendency to properly modulate his voice.

            He just needs to work on having interesting things to say.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        *puts on Kreskin hat* he will be called a challenge beast and viewed as a threat

        • i and 1

          “You are… correct… Sir?”

          Whoa,you are maybe thinking of Carnac :-).

          Although a hat would be fine on Creskin, if you remebered his glasses as well.

        • Hornacek

          Did Kreskin wear a hat?

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Apparently not. I even googled it before my original post to check. Stupid internet :S

    • NearlyNina

      I feel like Cole’s face is the face of a squished baby that just got birthed. Like just weirdly smushed.

    • Hornacek

      You are absolutely right. Those are potentially unpopular opinions.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      He’s a male butterface.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Also JP. It’s like his face is a void of interest. There is a complete lack of any defining feature.

  • Ms_Woozah

    I need a gif of Ashley’s expression as JP is coming out of the water with that speared fish. Been a while since we’ve seen real Thirst on this show. Now there’s so much of it!

    I like Lauren. Her weird remarks about redheads aside, she convinced her tribe to stomp out the annoying male presence instead of her, the “out-of-place woman.” Nice to see white male privilege not win for a change.

    • BadPlayer91

      I 100% agree that it’s awesome to see the older-female succeed and for once not get the boot, which is why I really didn’t enjoy her discriminatory remark toward redheads. I wasn’t really strongly decided on Lauren prior to this, and was ready to root for her staying alive, but after her remarks, I can’t really support her anymore. I’m glad she made it another episode, but i’m not thrilled about having her around for long.

      • VoicOff

        Her remarks was dumb, but not offensive is guess?
        I have a really impressivly ginger friend (his hair are bright orange) who gets weird comments thrown at him, but it’s not systemic oppression.

        • StormofCuteness

          I think they’re offensive. I think even the term “gingers” is mean-spirited.

          How can saying “I’ve never met a red-head who told the truth?” not be offensive? That’s a fairly heinous stereotyping based on nothing other than hair color. At very least, it speaks to Lauren’s inability to even realize it wasn’t something she should say at tribal council.

          • VoicOff

            Yeah, the thing to me is, it’- sounded too dumb to be serious.
            And ginger isn’t offensive, i think, it’s just, british ? Maybe ?
            I am not a native english speaker so i could very well be mistaken.

            I took it as a dumb joke. The think is, too me weither the joke was ment at the expense of a minority, and because that person is a monirity, or not is important. So sexist, homophobic, racists undertones… And white dude, even redheads, aren’t systematically discriminated against, that i know off. So it sounds pretty irrelevant. Not particularly clever, and certainly dispointing, but no something that is gonna anger me.

          • StormofCuteness

            I don’t like anyone who judges an entire group of people based only on a genetic trait. *shrug*

          • Hornacek
        • By The Numbers

          Red heads are actually ostracized to some extent in England (due to the assumption that they are Irish or Scottish). There’s actually movements trying to pass laws protecting them from discrimination.

          • the sky is falling

            I’ve seen a lot of confirmation of this in the thread and it was news to me, apparently a problem in Australia as well. It’s just odd here in the US.

        • Violina23

          When someone says “ginger” to me, my first thought is Doctor Who after a regeneration:

          “Hmmmph, Still not Ginger”

          I personally love people with red hair, it’s so striking. Although I don’t envy the skin that burns in about 10 seconds flat.

        • Figaro

          I posted this above already, but based on the way that Lauren deadpanned “I have two idols”, I would lean towards guessing that she was also making a sarcastic attempt at humour with her ‘I hate gingers’ comments, but because she says everything so completely straight-faced it’s really hard to tell that it’s supposed to be a joke. At least I hope that’s the case, because a legitimate hatred of redheads would be really weird.

    • the sky is falling

      Lauren did a great job talking her way into staying, that was a nice surprise, I thought she was a goner. But, next week we will learn she also hates left-handed people, the Amish, and people with green eyes.

      • Hornacek

        Well, “sinister” is Latin for “left-handed” (thanks, Ned).

  • Roswulf

    Throwing this out there for discussion- early winner rankings. My basic conclusion is that we know very little.

    TIER ONE: This is what a win by Player X looks like
    1. Ali
    2. Ben
    3. Crissy

    TIER TWO: See Tier One, but with Red Flags
    4. Ryan
    5. Cole

    TIER THREE: Boring
    6. Ashley
    7. Devon
    8. Jessica
    9. JP
    10. Desi
    11. Roark

    TIER FOUR: If they were winning, the storytelling we’ve seen is weird, but at least Survivor wants us to like them
    12. Mike
    13. Lauren

    TIER FIVE: Nope
    14. Alan
    15. Joe

    • Maritimer

      I might do some re-arranging in Tier 3 (Ashley and Jessica in particular I would have lower) but generally co-sign

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      With the major caveat that it’s very early–what would the winner ranking after three episodes be for, say, Philippines or SJDS?–I agree with this. I’d put Jessica at the top of Tier Three because of how astute she was about how to handle knowledge of the idol, which implies good things about her game sense generally.

      • Violina23

        I agree, I got a good vibe from Jessica

    • Max_Jets

      Is this based on edit then or by just how we think things would play out? I would have Alan much higher in either case. The show cares about his perspective, and Alan himself has shown self awareness about the way he is coming off (e.g. “I know I look crazy”, or whatever he said). He also appears to have fit in well with his tribe before he started overplaying, so if he tones it down he could end up doing well. You’d think Chrissy and Ben wouldn’t even consider working with him after what we saw in the premiere, and yet they haven’t ruled it out.

      • Roswulf

        Largely edit. I think it is FAR too early (and Survivor is FAR too random) to bother making serious predictions or start gaming out future votes now. I’m using “most likely winner” as a way to organize thoughts about the story that is being told.

        And I strongly disagree on Alan. His main focus in the last episode was “Big strong Alan can’t open coconuts”. There’s a way to tell the story of the Hero tribe as Alan being the manipulator and strategic nexus. Instead? He’s been portrayed as erratic and a strategic option for more important players. Like Joe, I think he’s playing the role of entertaining obstacle rather than contender.

        But I’d love to be proven wrong. Because I do find him entertaining.

        • Max_Jets

          That makes sense. Survivor can be better at showing us what’s really happening than people give it credit for, and I could see “he’s out of his element, but trying his best” being a way to spin his situation into a positive. It’s a stretch, but one partly based on wishful thinking!

        • the sky is falling

          I could see the Alan story they are telling as something like: Arrogant overconfident athlete faces hardest challenge so far, humbled by elements and relationships; adapts to survive. They love a growth story, so it’s still possible thats where the Alan story is going.
          So far I agree with Ben in the top tier, depending on what happens in the swap, it seems reasonable to think he could go wire to wire without ever being in serious trouble. If he found one or two more allies, could be an easy path to the end.

    • StormofCuteness

      My god, I hope Roark does better than this and turns out to be strategic and witty. I really need this to happen, but I get more scared it won’t each episode.

      • Roswulf

        Worth noting that this is based on VERY little outside-of-show reading other the Purple Rock stuff.

        So I have no idea who Roark is.

        • StormofCuteness

          At this point, neither do I, Roswulf, neither do I.

  • VoicOff

    So fucking happy they kept Lauren.

    The two blond, bland lovebirds seem like total recruits.
    That’s all folks, because i didn’t have interneeeet

  • I don’t like Lauren. I like Patrick much less. This episode was moderately satisfying. Now I would like something exciting to happen.

    If there is anything good about this season so far, and that is a big “if”, it does look like a lot of the fodder is positioned to go home early.

  • Violina23

    So, I didn’t get to watch until really late Wednesday night, and I almost fell asleep during Tribal Council, but I would like to say that the expression on Patrick’s face when he saw the second vote against him was GOLD, and rivals that one from Fiji (I think?)

    Someone should gif them side by side… it was glorious

    In 2 weeks I am done with orchestra rehearsals for a short while and I can live-tweet again. It’s much more fun being able to snark with you all in real-time

  • UseYourCommonSense

    This season is boring. I’m only watching because Devon is super hot, better than Cole tbh.

  • Parvatis2Idols

    Wait when did Ali mention she knows Patrick outside the game?