Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 8 Liveblog: “Playing with the Devil”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the eighth episode of Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers!

"Playing with the Devil" - Chrissy Hofbeck on the eighth episode of SURVIVOR 35, themed Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers, airing Wednesday, November 15 (8:00-9:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Photo: Screen GrabCBS ©2017 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
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881 thoughts on “Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Episode 8 Liveblog: “Playing with the Devil”

        1. Cats would suck at survivor. clearly a golden retriever or lab would win. corgis would be the goat.

          1. “clearly a golden retriever or lab would win.”

            Something stupid that eats all the time and is proud of how good it is as digging? Yeah, Cole’s killing it out there.

    1. Here’s a hint: when looking at the header image, look at the title of the episode. See how they pair up.

    1. I’m having a hard time deciding how you use it. scary, but perfect for someone who is not a target at all

      1. The thing though is that you have take a risk twice. Once to guess that your abstention won’t affect the outcome of the first vote; again to guess that your second vote will affect the outcome and not be wasted.

  1. Lauren is afraid someone will see her put the scroll in the urn. She does know she is many feet away from the tribe when voting, and you can block the urn with your body, right?

    1. I’m astounded that none of us or the show have thought of this before. They are changing the twists nicely

      1. I feel like I’ve heard this one suggested, probably on RHAP. It’s pretty fun, especially as a secret from people who don’t count.

    1. It’s the simple, elegant solution! But they needed an individual winner for their drama scheming, and this cast could use some manufactured drama, so…

  2. Since everyone had to run the course and take a shot for this challenge, does that mean you could hit all the targets, but still have to play til everyone had taken a shot?

    1. Kinda. You have to swap out when you hit a target. So the minimum you have to run before hitting all targets is 2. But you’d then still have to run 3 before finishing.

    2. Based on Jeff’s colour commentary, it sounded like
      a) you had to step down once you hit a target
      b) everyone had to go once before you could send repeats. (After red cycled through, he said something like “anyone can go now!”)

      So no, there’d be no way to finish before everyone had shot once.

    3. You couldn’t hit them all without everyone taking a shot because you can’t repeat people until everyone has gone.

    4. Can anyone remember the challenge where we’ve seen this strategy before? The earlier challenge with the bags of rice and the balance beams sort of counts, but I’m sure there have been challenges where weaker team members pretty much just jumped into the water on their turns and got out of the way.

      1. I am positive there was a challenge where Boston Rob did this. Everyone else took two steps, jumped in the water, and went back to the start so that Rob could then go through the challenge multiple times.

          1. I’m not sure, but it feels like Redemption Island. The rest of Rob’s tribe were like “A challenge? Gosh, we don’t know what we’re doing. Rob, you’ve played this game 3 times, just go ahead and do the entire challenge by yourself, we would just mess things up.”

          2. Nope, it was All-Stars, where everyone with him had played the game the exact same amount of times (and most of them for more days), yet they still thought to themselves “Rob, just go ahead and do the entire challenge by yourself, we would just mess things up.”

            Because everything people like to say about Rob’s competition in his fourth time was true about his competition his second time.

            Narratives!

          3. I figured you would be the one to clarify anything Boston Rob related.

            Even without knowing when this challenge took place in All Stars, it feels safe to say that during that challenge, Rob was probably the strongest and fittest person on his team/tribe. So even though everyone else may have had the same amount of Survivor experience as him, they quickly realized they should just let him do the entire challenge.

          4. But I thought you said it felt like something that could only have happened when he was playing with Redemption Island people?

          5. No, you’re mixing up the time when I was bad-mouthing Boston Rob’s win against the weakest set of newbies ever. This time I’m talking about how he was so great at a particular challenge that the rest of his team/tribe sat back and said “You go ahead and do all of it, we’ll just sit back and watch you win for all of us.”

  3. Interesting format for the reward, but I feeling that one person selecting the order which people eat would be more fun if one person choosing wasn’t Joe.

  4. This order twist is like Expert’s reward in All Stars except no one knows who gets what.

    If you’re second last, do you eat it all?

        1. yeah, this is the problem with ‘typing cat gif’ takes. wrote that before we saw the actual reward

  5. Small nitpick: this isn’t family style. It’s sloppy seconds. And thirds. And fourths. And …

        1. They brought it out hot, then it sat there while the camera crew got the food porn shot in and Joe explained the eating order.

    1. Spreading it around the plate doesn’t work. People would uncover it again. I think this method is inherently flawed because everyone after him is going to see it, unless he threw it away

    1. Spaghetti on top of a napkin just sitting on a table even more suspicious. I don’t know if I’d have had the guts to full on throw the plate away and count on Joe not to come back and mention it, even as a curiosity.

  6. Wow, Cole makes a smart move by covering the plate. He probably should have thrown the plate away though.

      1. Wait, does everyone else not eat spaghetti by balling it onto a napkin and then jamming it in your face like a horse with a bag of oats?

      1. I don’t know that you have to, but I do think that if Chrissy finds out that you kept a secret idol from her, it’s more likely to turn out bad than good.

    1. He already told Chrissy. When she came around to the flag he said ‘I got it cover (the hole) up’

      1. I missed the “I got it” part. I thought he just said to cover the hole up, which I interpreted as Ryan just not wanting people to realize he was digging there.

  7. Two years ago I would make a comment about Desi that was wholly inappropriate for the current political climate.

  8. Ryan make out like a bandit. He gets Chrissy to clean up and get caught. And Cole gets the blame. Too bad for Cole that Alan wasn’t still here to prove his innocence. Although most people thinking he has an idol might be good for him.

        1. We can, but I don’t know what to say beyond “those are butt plugs.”

          … Every time a Survivor falls of their beam, a goatse gets his wings?

    1. He won one immunity challenge. What is this new thing where we apparently break out the hyperbole because someone wins immunity once?

        1. There have been major indications in my edit that I have no fucks to give about the idea of minor indications in the edit.

  9. Also, did y’all hear that (American) Thanksgiving week is one hour, and the week after is two?

    1. Silly Americans, we already had Thanksgiving last month. And we have it on a Monday so we get a long weekend out of it.

      1. You know most Americans (unless you work in retail) get the Friday off as well, thus making a four-day weekend. And kids in school get the Wednesday before too.

        1. Unless my info is wrong, the Friday after Thanksgiving is not an official U.S. holiday. According to Google, it’s a state holiday for just over half the states, but if you’re not in those states you don’t get the day off.

          1. I’m gonna go with the person who has lived her whole life in the country over the dude who just Googled the info.

          2. At my current employer half of the teams are in the U.S. and every Thanksgiving we hear the same thing – people choosing to use a vacation or sick day on Black Friday because they want the long weekend.

            I’m sure someone who lives in the U.S. knows more about this, but after almost 10 years of hearing this every November, I’m not unfamiliar with this topic.

          3. It’s a Japanese company with branches all over the world, who provides employees for American clients.

          4. So that’s probably the issue. The Japanese company doesn’t understand the American norm of the bonus day off.

          5. Owners/head offices in Japan have very little to do with the management of the company. We actually used to be a separate company until the Japanese company bought 8 companies some years ago, one of which was us. Hardly any differerences

            We even get the following Monday off work when Remembrance Day is on a weekend. I have worked at many smaller IT firms where that was not the case, since RD is not a federal statutory holiday.

          6. Did I say it was an official holiday? Being an official holiday doesn’t have as much correlation with getting the day off as you might think. I haven’t had Veteran’s Day or Martin Luther King Day off since I graduated.

    1. He seemed personally offended when Cole was digging for the idol. Like, “How dare a player who knows they’re in trouble look for an idol?”

        1. Oh, I’m not saying her DGAFness is a POSITIVE. I just think it’s the sort of thing that makes people focus less on the details of the game. Sarah talked about it last season that the tribal she was least prepared for was the one she knew she was protected at.

    1. It was stupid and I was tearing my hair out over the split vote conundrum.. they did not have the numbers to split the vote to begin with and should have never gone that route.

      1. Did it say that it HAD to be used at the very next tribal? If so I missed that part. But based on this season’s advantages that would make sense.

          1. Do we know when her extra vote expires? If she’s in the last tribal before the FTC, can she use it then? Even HIIs expire at the final five.

    1. If she puts the advantage parchment in the urn and rather than voting takes her voting parchment back to camp she can use that parchment for an extra vote at a future tribal council.

          1. Though if Dr. Mike is a “downstairs doctor,” does that get him brownie points with Chrissy?

    1. I am simulating liking Chrissy in the absence of genuine warm feelings toward any of these people.

      1. I’m still going to argue Mike as the best player – but there’s not enough evidence to say either way

    1. This is bad for fantasy (tho I had already lost), but why do you not take out Joe when you ARE GUARANTEED SUCCESS IF YOU GO FOR IT?!?!

        1. I can imagine a “he’s close to drawing dead” argument, but there are at least four other goats on that island who won’t rock the boat nearly as much as Joe would/will.

          1. Exactly. Desi is obviously playing harder than we’re seeing on TV, but not nearly as hard or as abrasively as Joe is. And she’s clearly no more of an immunity threat than others are.

        2. The funny thing is that, according to the Survivor Wiki, on the re-vote, everyone voted for Desi except Ben who voted for Joe out of … spite? Yeah sure, spite.

    1. Since this means she doesn’t get to play but people get to spend every week making comments about how they’re not going to make gross comments about her, it might be the worst possible outcome? :-/

        1. (I deleted my comment because it was TOO passive-aggressive, but to this I’ll say: it’s appreciated? And I guess the bright side is we might run out of women altogether soon*? 2017!)

          *I doubt this; but I don’t believe it’s impossible.

  10. Guys, I scooped Redmond with this leaked list of planned themes for future seasons.

    Survivor: Horse Island
    Survivor: Dads vs. Grads
    Survivor: Milfs vs. Dilfs
    Survivor: Florida
    Survivor: Horse Island II – Orb is Horse
    Survivor: Kid Nation
    Survivor: Gangstas vs. Grandmas
    Survivor: Pen Island
    Survivor: Advent Children
    Survivor: Crisis Core
    Survivor: Dream Drop Distance
    Survivor: Guns Don’t Kill People, Jeff Probst Kills People
    The Survivor Porn Parody
    Survivor: Rupert’s Fifth Chance
    Survivor: Oops all Hantzes
    Survivor: Mars
    Survivor: Fuck It, We’ll do it Live

          1. You can make Shulk wear body oil for a top though, which somehow has more defense than some of his armor.

          1. I’m just gonna go with the “midwest” as you don’t know the difference between Italians and Dominicans.

    1. Since she had to go fake vote again, she should have been able to keep her second parchment as well for a future vote.

        1. Crossed my mind then, but then she only got the one confessional post challenge, I thought she was fine. Also because, as said, there is no good reason for it not to be Joe

          1. She certainly needed at least one (if she went home without a confessional people would riot) but I really thought she’d get a more present boot episode

          2. Yeah, that was silly of me. I can’t wait until the episode JP gets sent home without ever speaking (totally kidding, I know it won’t happen)

      1. When she was all I’m gonna win back that idol and kinda sauntered back to the line-up before the challenge is when I got a bad feeling.

        1. I clearly missed the editing cues this episode because that didn’t set me off at all, it seemed pretty standard for the person returning the necklace

        1. Her big mistake was tying her game so closely to Joe’s, but because of the swaps she didn’t really have a better option.

          1. well, fair chance is wrong way to put it I guess. I think what I really meant to say is I wouldn’t mind seeing her play again. She didn’t get enough screentime to really know

          2. I am with Andy on this, she didn’t get enough screen time because she was boring as F with nothing interesting to say and had little gameplay to show as well.

          3. I think that’s a little harsh. If she had gone further in the game she surely would have been edited differently. As it was, she only went to tribal once in the pre-merge and got booted before they got to single digits. On top of that she was arguably twist-screwed. That’s exactly the type of player who’s likely to get short-changed in the edit.

          4. She is a beautiful woman that made it to the jury. If she had anything interesting to say we would have seen many more confessionals from her.

          5. Don’t agree there is enough evidence to suggest that editors don’t give screen time just because of your placement. Troyzan was hilariously under-edited for a F3 finish with an idol play in there to boot, even Aubry last season got zilch despite going in as a fan fav of sorts and finishing 5th. Before that you have examples of Sunday in S33 getting little air time despite finishing higher than Desi did this time.

          6. It’s not an iron-clad rule or anything, but giving certain people tons of screen time necessarily means taking it away from others, and people who don’t make a big splash in the pre-merge and aren’t around at the end are the logical people to short-change. That 2nd-3rd boot after the merge tends (again, not iron clad) to be a Bermuda Triangle that traps people like Frosti, Kelly Sharbaugh, Michael Jefferson, Artis, Chris Hammond, etc.

            And Troyzan and Aubry’s edits in GC is an underreported reason that season was bad. Purpling anybody who makes the finale is just Survivor malpractice.

          7. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I agree than there is no set rule in survivor but in general they are very unlikely to under-edit a player who is giving them gold in confessionals. Someone like Nick was under-edited in pre-merge in KR due to avoiding tribals but then got loads of air time in the 2 episodes after merge. Desi could have gotten the same this time but she didn’t. For me that is because she stuck me as someone who could not find her feet in the game in anyway. It can happen, you can be an interesting dynamic person IRL but fizzle out in a starkly different environment.

    1. I liked it before today, I thought it was going to be a confrontation of the horrors of war. But instead it’s just MARINES ARE THE BEST HOW DARE YOU

          1. Hey, worst case, 7 more years. Coolio is running for president with a porn actress, so it’s all good

          2. I’m being pedantic, but the actual worse case is that the rule of law gets upended and we realize that we’ve effectively established a kleptocratic monarchy.

          3. Which will absolutely lead to a civil war or revolution because the majority does not support that. That’s why I’m taking not one, but TWO vacations next year.

          4. Nah, things are bad now, but next election will move back to sanity. trump is like Vader, who brings balance to the force by destroying the Jedi

          5. Not as much as now. Our piece of shit president has encouraged it. I will take any opportunity to say fuck him

          6. No it filmed in the spring and would have been edited this past summer well after the election. Why are you reminding us about the election it still makes me so sad.

          7. I like it. It’s a wake up call. We need to fucking vote in our elections. It’s pathetic they we are at about a 50% percentage of available voters

          8. Chill, as long as trump doesn’t star a nuclear war, we will be fine. bad president will wake us up

          9. I have to push back on this now. The “we” in “we will be fine” are the people who have had it be fine for a longer while. For non-marginalized populations, yeah, sure, things might go back to normal for you. But real damages are being done by this administration to female, Black, Latinx, Muslim, gay, trans communities, and many more. And outside of that, Trump has incredibly demolished America’s international standing in trade and global politics. There are solutions for some of these things, but not without a lot of damage being done to a lot of folks before hand. There are some bell you can’t unring and some plates you can’t unsmash.

            And don’t say “chill” when someone brings up the very real problem of voter suppression. Not only is it significant in its reality, but even the idea of it flies in the face of American ideals.

          10. I wish I could like this more. I went on a big rant on Facebook after the election when someone shared some post by the Dirty Jobs guy that said “we’ve survived the last 44 presidents, we’ll survive this one.” Tell that to the thousands who died while Reagan ignored the AIDS crisis, mother fucker. Not to mention all the other wars and genocide and more under other presidents, but I just have a grudge against Reagan.

          11. I am being pretty chill actually, or at least I was, but jfc bad president will have actual bad consequences.

        1. You’re too cynical. It’s CBS, there is only way they can portray a soldier and it’s heroic. It’s our hangup that someone yelling about the importance of the marines grosses us out.

      1. I choose to read a lot into the pivot from HOW DARE YOU at camp to “I have a lot of trauma related to my service and I’m continuing to deal with the ways it makes me react to feeling angry” at tribal, but even as I do it, the first moments of Seal Team play and I rush to turn off CBS’s actual opinions.

    2. For me, he’s on the bubble. I could like him, but I could just as easily be quickly turned off. Fwiw, my thought exiting that whole Ben/Joe sequence was that Joe was disrespecting servicemen&women.

      1. I also think it is the continuation of “Why Ben Loses”. In that past couple of episodes, Ben has shown that if he doesn’t like you, then there is no coming back from that.

      2. Yeah, I think Ben legitimately got very upset, because for Joe it’s just ‘swearing on the Marines’, but for Ben it’s the accusation that he’d swear on the memory of his dead friends, basically. For him, it’s like someone saying that you’re going around swearing on the grave of your dead loved one.

        Unfortunately, I think he was also too upset to articulate that very clearly.

    3. Every time I think he’s become insufferable he does that thing where he seems like he’s about to weep and I turn around on it again.

    4. By apologizing at tribal (or at least attempting to), he seemed to acknowledge that his earlier “I’m a MARINE!” tantrum was not a good look.

          1. That would be my gimmick if I tried to get on the show. “I really could use two or three new friends. I’m hoping I’ll meet them here.”

          2. After the final woman is voted out, we need a scene with Ryan looking around the camp saying “Where are all the women at?”

          3. Sometimes I forget you weren’t all around during the AVC days. That was John’s gimmick, dammit! I mean Judge Reinhold.

          4. When I was making jokes about him early on people thought I was calling him stupid, but no really, I think subterfuge and deception are just not settings he has.

          5. Oh, god, I have to actually count those up at some point. It’s probably gonna be a binge the week before the finale. I picked the wrong season to build a game around examples of people being compelling tv.

  11. So why did Cole vote for Joe? Was he approached by the heroes/hustlers, pulled along by Mike, or just made a wild stab to try and find a lifeboat from his sinking alliance?

    1. Yeah, I want to see more justification of the non-Joe healer votes. I know Desi wasn’t on the beach for the Healer Powwow, but this is really shitty editing besides “she turned her back on us”.

    2. Mike clued him in and they’re trying to make inroads. But that’s a bad move by Mike because everyone else HATES Cole

      1. Yeah, if I’m Mike I’m just going to team up with Ben and Lauren and ditch Cole as soon as possible. Especially because Ben is allergic to Cole.

  12. I was under the impression Lauren had to play the advantage at that specific tribal council if she wanted to use it, although I can’t guarantee they explicitly said that.

    Next week will be fun when Chrissy’s alliance targets Lauren or Ashley for *coughcough* no real reason.

    1. I took about 20 seconds during the reward challenge to get from “who the hell is that” to “oh right there’s still a person named Ashley here” when she was climbing the ladder so if she gets a single confessional next episode its her

          1. Wow, that’s got to be close to an all-time low for a male player who has made it this far. Cowboy Rick and Samoa Bret are the only two I can think of as competition.

          2. Right. His confessional count goes up a bit with three episodes left in the season. At the 8th episode, Keith had 5 of his 17 confessionals. However, he didn’t attend tribal until the merge along with the aforementioned reasoning

          3. At this point in Caramoan, Erik only had 5 of his 15 confessionals.The exact same can be said for Carter and Cowboy Rick.
            However, Brett takes the cake with a whopping 3 confessionals in the first 8 episodes. However, you have to remember that Samoa is a 20 person cast. Samoa is also notorious for the Russell-skewed edit. Finally Brett was also on a winning tribe who only went to tribal before the merge once.

        1. I clearly don’t remember any of it since like the Alan boot and her and Devon’s alliance (which may still have payoff I guess)

          1. Nope, not a memory of that at all. I thought it was Devon. Mind you, I was half in the bag when I watched last weeks episode

  13. Featured comment this week is going to the person that describes Devon’s greatest moment in this episode. Good luck picking just one, though.

    1. There’s no way to top Devon just being Devon, in all his Devonness. This is a fool’s errand, John.

      1. Devon’s “beautiful light” speech at the end of tribal certainly had an effect on Probst. Probst was so gaga over his newfound man-crush that his soul transcended his body, and when it came back, he described a tribal council from an alternate dimension.

    2. Devon did not immediately drink the whole bottle of wine after sitting down for spaghetti. I would have; no one else was expecting it to be there and it wouldn’t have been missed.

      1. It was mentioned, but I’d have done it anyhow. And left the bottle behind so that it could be recycled. #Hero

    3. He heroically counted to six and then identified the proper fraction.

      He healed his wounded tummy with delicious pasghetti.

      Then he hustled to be like “I dunno, shit’s wild man,” during the idol royale.

    4. In the immunity challenge, he fell off that balance beam like a winner. He had style, he had grace, he had the eye of the tiger.

        1. Jessi, Desi, we miss you
          Lauren’s got an attitude
          Cole is a great big boob
          Survivors ready, let’s get to it
          Make a fire, there’s nothing to it

          1. I mean, it can, but the song is Wonderwall being played in the quad by some guy you’re not sure owns a shirt.

    5. Devon wisely realizing there is advantage hidden in somewhere in the reward decided to not to even look for it. He put his faith in Ryan to find the clue and idol realizing that he could avoid pissing four Healer jury like Chrissy did. He also had the wisdom to not he eat preventing himself for going out same way as former great Survivors like Joe from Kaoh Rong, Bruce from Panama, and Jerry from Tocantins. Devon eat a correct portion of food to be able to stay in the game.

    6. The glowing music during Devon’s tribal council speech certainly had me thinking EDGIC-y there for a minute about musical cues

          1. This seems to be the #WeekOfPapaBear. He was on last week’s People show with Andrea, got mentioned multiple times in the RHAP recap episode (with Andrea as the guest), and now he’s hypothetically delivering Nazi-affiliated pizza.

    7. Devon’s “beautiful light” speech at the end of tribal certainly had…an effect on Probst, let’s say.

    8. The bit where he wandered in the desert for 40 nights and then fed the hungry masses with just two loaves and a giant plate of spaghetti, and expelled all the money changers from the temple and then said ‘woah’.

    9. Squabbling for the featured comment is a behavior that is beneath all of us, and Devon would never stoop so low as to try to egg us on to such a fight. His edit tonight showed that.

          1. I will not fight Palsy because I *leans backwards, and glances in both directions* like him as a person, but also because I don’t trust a bellhop to fight a clean and fair fight.

    10. An actual “greatest moment” from this episode: Devon’s style of play–just being an all around class act! His beautiful FTC speech shows that he isn’t content to be like other Survivor players. He’s not gonna be like the lesser peole that just wander from one alliance to another, just helping to vote a person out before moving on to the next week’s alliance like a drifter or a vagabond. No, he’s gonna be a source of hope instead! Devon’s style of play doesn’t move to the beat of that drum. It truely does take different strokes to be a sole Survivor! Go get ’em, Devon!

      1. I feel like I’m reliving #SummerOfTroyzan all over again.

        Wait, that’s not right. This is becoming #CaucasianWooTwo.

      2. Devon doesn’t march to the beat of any drums. If there are drums, it’s a bunch of people in a circle and he’s just feelin’ the groove, man.

    11. Him vowing to take a fair share and eating a quarter of the pasta. Or him doing the weird eyeball thing at tribal.

  14. Oh my god a woman went home for no real reason at all, I’m shocked!
    Honestly though, how did they make that decision? Joe really should have gone home tonight.

    And are we heading towards the most boring FTC of all time? First because I don’t want anyone to win this season (except Mike), and second because Desi, Cole, and JP might be the three blandest people of all time. An open dialogue between those three is a horrific possibility

    1. The bias against women is real, don’t get me wrong, but Desi has been invisible this season, it’s no surprise. No problem with that boot except that it wasn’t JP

        1. Ok, I thought you were coming at it from a social justice angle. Yes, from a strategy angle, that was a moronic vote. Desi is a perfect goat

          1. The only reason would be that she is an immunity threat or whatever, but Cole, JP, Devon, Chrissy (seemingly good at puzzles), and Ben are all still there so the odds of anyone going on a run are pretty low

          2. Yeah, had she won 2 in a row I’d consider her a threat, but otherwise, I’d want Desi on my side

          3. How does the edit have any effect on whether it was a biased decision in the game? And of course bias also affects the editing itself…

          4. Perhaps it’s an unconscious bias, but I personally don’t get the feeling that folks were voted out based on race or gender this season. that’s not always the case

    2. How this was edited was disappointing and it didn’t make much sense as a viewer but Im sure there was a reason Desi went home (I’m guessing challenge threat was at least part of the reason). I don’t blame the players though I blame the producers/editors for not showing us the reason.

        1. No but it is a reason to vote someone out. A person doesn’t need to win any for them to be considered a threat. Also there was a comment in the episode about her being mentally strong. Either way there was a reason but they choose not to show us presumably so it was a “surprise”. Personally I wish they showed us why.

          1. That’s all that I take issue with, I hate when the show blindsides the audience, there was no indication that Desi was a target

          2. I don’t mind when they blindside us once in awhile, when it works and has a big impact. Desi leaving does not have a big impact, since we barely knew who she was

          3. I usually prefer a bit more content too, but I can understand why she was edited this way. This season had 4 smart, likable women go home one after another – Roark, Ali, Jessica, Desi – and they chose to build up 2 of them, who are both likely candidates for another second chance season. I think if they had built all of them up, the general audience would not be very happy with the direction of the season.

          4. Ha, sorry! Hopefully you’ll feel better when the Jessica and Alan power duo run the game on their returnee season.

          5. Well, a gal can dream. I really thought the women were going to be so strong this season and now we’re down to Chrissy, Ashley, and Lauren. I have really taken to Lauren, but I totally thought she’d be out in the 1st 3 boots.

          6. There were indicators: Ryan & Chrissy’s comments, Desi’s own comments, some of Probst’s comments at the challenge.

          7. I think it was the challenge thing. It had to be a Healer. Mike is non-threatening and Ben and Lauren would likely object to his ousting. Cole was immune. That left Desi and Joe. Joe doesn’t have an idol (Chrissy and Ryan know this) and has been bad at immunity. Desi seemed to be liked and is extremely athletic. She was a solid choice for elimination.

  15. So besides this being bad for a number of other reasons regarding sexism and racism this is also bad for an exciting season because so long as they leave both Cole and Joe there, I don’t know if the majority splits until at least one of them is gone, regardless of what NTOS wants us to think

    1. I only disagree on the sexism front because a woman, Chrissy, was spearheading voting out the women

      1. Speaking more broadly in the sense of another woman being booted and the ratio among the remaining castaways than calling this specific vote sexist

      2. Not saying it motivated this particular vote, but sexism is a part of our culture and women aren’t immune…

      3. FWIW, Chrissy voted for Joe both times. In fact she was the only non-Desi vote on the remote.

        1. How did you see the 2nd votes? Also, I did think Chrissy hated Joe. I mean she was really obvious about it at FTC. But yeah, it makes me feel a titch better that Chrissy wasn’t behind this crazy not voting out Joe decision.

          1. Wikipedia, which we know is infallible. And actually the Survivor Wikia assigns the Joe vote on the revote to Ben, which makes more sense. The person who edited the Wikipedia said the Joe revote vote was in Chrissy’s handwriting.

      4. Wait, what? You think women can’t be sexist? Chrissy seems to actively feel she needs to be the only woman left to succeed and that is definitely sexist.

        1. How do you know that Chrissy feels this way? Just because he has voted out women on a strategy based game to better her chances to win a million dollars? Only other evidence out there is exit interviews but I don’t think it is far to class someone as a sexist without even hearing them once on their plays of the season

          1. Exit interviews are evidence. Do you really think Chrissy would blatantly say “I’ve got to get rid of the women”? That’s rarely how women are sexist; it’s way more subtle and insidious than that. And it happens all the time.

          2. So basically nothing Chrissy says can absolve her of sexist tag now simply because she dared to vote out 5 women in a row. Preposterous. It would be one thing if she ranted regarding women in a manner like Will did against Shirin but disparaging someone based on game play is immature.

          3. I did and will copy what I wrote about it elsewhere….

            I was rooting for Ali and Jessica more than Chrissy but some of their comments in exit interviews were very sour..
            – Ali is not mad at Ryan, the person she knew from the start of the game and was actually responsible for tanking her game, but at Chrissy because she spun some lie about the hypothetical family visit to make Ali feel more comfortable and not look for idols… mmmmm
            – Jessica through “vibes” without meeting Chrissy and spending limited time with her over one day after merge, has her pin pointed as a woman hater because she is really good at detecting that stuff. Laughable.

            Now the stat of Chrissy voting out 4/4 woman does not look good, even if you can justify each and every boot, just like MvGX, when such a lop sided pattern emerges there is a good chance, there is some other underlying issue at play as well. Especially when you consider that Chrissy also chose to partner with Ben rather than Ashley, not to say she has a problem with latter but it safe to say she prefers to work with men over women.

            *** SPECULATION BASED ON EXIT INTERVIEWS**** There is also a chance that pre-jury trio of women are not just speaking from their experience but a collective one from others in jury and pre-jury. A lot of survivor boots will do that. MvGX jury folks piled on Hannah in their exit interviews since they knew she will continue to make questionable strategic moves which she will have trouble defending later on. Given how confident Jessica was at disparaging Chrissy’s social skills, I am afraid it looks very likely that she will be a FTC loser at best since she may be also be hinting at perception of players still left in the game.

          4. I don’t think immature is that bad a slur but I read about your cat, so I am gonna leave this be. Congrats on coming wedding.

          5. Exit interviews are months later when the player has seen the show. Their views in those interviews are inevitably influenced by what they saw on the show. If they interviewed Katrina, Ali, Desi right after they were voted out, their comments on Chrissy then might be a bit different than after their boot episode aired.

            (Desi should have a Ponderosa video which I haven’t seen so maybe she talks about Chrissy in that)

    2. Keeping someone in simply because they are black and/or a woman isn’t exactly good though. And I doubt that voting out Desi has anything to do with either sexism or racism.

      I think Desi is one of the all-time most beautiful players on this show. However, as a character she was a flat line. The edit gave her nothing or maybe she gave nothing to the editors. Who knows. But on the exciting-story level, Joe remaining is definitely more interesting than Desi remaining. And I don’t even like Joe, I’m not about that life.

      1. I felt sorry Desi didn’t get much of run gamewise, but it happens to some contestants, unless they a phenomenal social game its often hard to extract oneself from such invidious starting position to eventually being allied with Joe (by default). I suppose the shame is that Desi wasn’t more proactive socially to be such an easy vote – it’s not like she wasn’t well spoken and intelligent. 🙁

      2. I worded my first post poorly. I’m not saying voting out Desi right here was sexist or racist in and of itself. It doesn’t necessarily make any of the players racist or sexist. It may even have been the right vote strategically. But the vote does further amplify Survivor’s race and gender problem, where we now have 7 men and 3 women left, and that of the 5 minority players starting the season, we are down to 1 less than halfway through the players

      1. Ugh, I do not agree with this characterization of Lauren. I really don’t. Did you see her secret scene from last week? How was she grouchy this week? She’s pragmatic and good at things plus she’s clearly endeared herself far more than most (including me) thought possible.

        Are you really calling her grouchy because she found Cole and Patrick annoying? If so, then add me to the “grouchy” list because they were incredibly annoying.

        Sorry, I’m venting at you, Reya. This has just become a personal pet peeve amongst this season’s stereotyping.

        1. Lauren is definitely cast from the same mould as Denise from China (much as I would say Bryan is similar to Adam from that season). And you may recall that James Clement had a very soft spot for Denise the lunch lady that season. There is something comforting in a no-nonsense, blue collar mom who is less inclined to Machiavellian urges, a la Chrissy.

          Lauren has all the makings of the 5/6th-last boot.

          1. Huh?

            Denise was all nonsense, all the time. She had tissue-thin skin and a transparent desire to be part of a group, which is what made her so easy for Todd and Amanda to control. She didn’t go deep because she was comforting, she went deep because she voluntarily gave up all her agency in the game.

          2. Hmm… fair enough then. It’s been a decade or so since I watched China (misremembered Todd as “Adam”), so maybe I’m transferring some personality between the Denise and Lauren.

            Still, IIRC, James Clements’ affection toward Denise was not due to her lack of agency. There was something else at play there. He made one particularly out-of-left-field comment about how “if Denise was 10 years younger …”

          3. James had a strong affection to Denise, but James wasn’t a particularly strong part of the decision making process when it came to eliminations.

        2. No worries, it’s fine for you to vent, and be annoyed at the stereotyping. Personally I’m stereotyping because I found Lauren’s dislike of Cole and Patrick entertaining and would enjoy more of it, and so it’s going to be a running joke this season for me, but you’re in no way obligated to find the same things funny that I do.

          Great Lauren moment this week: I was mildly peeved by the advantage clue in the bundle of nails thing last week, because it seemed so clearly producer-planned to go to one of the big buff guys. So hooray for Lauren turning THAT stereotype on its head and getting to it with the hammer.

          1. I am secretly hoping for Lauren to absolutely kill it in a challenge at some point. She’s so obviously got that “work strong” thing that has benefited men whose jobs involve physical labor in the past, but no one is worried about her because we love to conflate hot with athletic. Of course these things are unpredictable and we may not even get a super strength-y challenge, but I can hope.

          2. Same, and I’m openly hoping for a challenge that plays to her strengths, like hoisting something heavy on a pulley, or the Bob Dawg memorial fish-chopping challenge (note: I don’t actually know what commercial fishermen do all day).

            While I’m at it, I’m so glad she found the advantage and not Cole. All he could have done with it is abandon ship on Jessica.

        3. Me too! I feel like “gruff” just isn’t a mode women are allowed to have. Then again I also found Sarah more compelling than most people. I guess I like tough women with a kind of flat, no-nonsense affect.

  16. My favorite moment in the episode may have been when Ryan was digging for the idol and JP happened upon him, and JP obliviously just wanders past while Ryan is all awkward and suspiciously trying to be nonchalant, and JP just JPs his way on by like he’s the Cleveland Browns.

    1. JP’s comical ineptitude at everything, be it speaking, seeing, or moving is honestly starting to make me happy

    2. Well, I particularly liked that the contrived *action idol search* moment got hijacked by high farce instead. 😀

  17. I really don’t understand why they voted out Desi on the revote. Were they really more worried about her than Joe? Did they see her as a bigger social threat? Challenge threat? We got maybe one line from Ryan about why targeting Desi was a good idea, but nothing more than that. After all the to-do about advantages and vote splits, this boot left me more confused than anything.

    1. I have no idea, Joe is clearly more dangerous than Desi. There is no downside to voting out Joe

    2. Even though Joe has much more attention and idols I think really Desi would be more dangerous. I think Joe’s personality might make him seem like he couldn’t win and might have trouble organizing a resistance. I think the only think Joe might be better at is finding idols, just his personality and find idols are more TV friendly so just by screen time/lack of explaining why they voted her makes it seem like he is the bigger threat/should have been voted out.

      1. Remember last time someone with Joe’s personality and ability to find idols couldn’t win? I wouldn’t think Chrissy and Ryan would set themselves on the road for that mistake (though I accept that Joe may be much more annoying at camp than Tony was)

    3. No idea if this was part of their thinking, but if Ryan et al. are worried about Ben being unbeatable in the finals, keeping Joe around to provoke arguments might chip away at Ben’s heroic veneer somewhat?

      1. We haven’t seen much of her admittedly onscreen, but she also seemed quite capable socially, she just didn’t get the rub from the off and ended up allied with Joe. But, you think they would have voted off Joe at the recount just for a couple of days of relative peace. 😛

    4. Desi was a much bigger threat than Joe. She is better in the challenges, and has a much better social game. While Joe was provoking an argument with Ben, she was in the shelter hanging out with everyone else. She had a much better chance of getting friendly with the majority alliance and finding a crack. Most of the majority alliance does not like Joe, and would not work with him later.

  18. Btw, everyone, I figured out the correct answer to last week’s podcast question and it’s Guy’s American Kitchen.

    1. Is this a bad time to say that by all accounts that I’ve heard, Guy Fieri is an all-around nice guy and decent chef?

      1. No. I’d hang out with Guy Fieri. He probably knows a really great place to get hot wings and we’d chill and talk about food. But Guy’s American Kitchen sounds dire.

  19. Oh wow, I just realized Mike and Cole both voted for Joe, not Desi. There are going to be fireworks back at camp if he figures that out

  20. Well, the end result was baffling, but was the best possible ending for the viewers (in that we lost one of the least entertaining players).

    Also, Ryan’s heartbeat was terrifying. He should have eaten more spaghetti.

  21. Splitting votes here made no sense. Even discounting Lauren’s advantage (which I think needed to be played at this time in order to get it), the vote could have been 4 Joe, 4 Ben, 3 Desi and an idol could have taken out Ben. You are risking chaos for no reason Hustoes!

  22. I actually made a point of watching all the vote reveals at the end for once, and it was super weird. During the revote, I couldn’t figure out the original Lauren vote for the life of me – before I tallied up all the votes, I thought for a second that the missing vote got counted as a Lauren vote to help conceal her advantage, but that would be really stupid.
    I liked that Mike voted for Joe. During TC my mind was attempting to go through the strategy implications of Mike’s options, and I think that voting for Joe gets him the most in the long run. Sure he could have probably organized the Healers to take out Ben (or whoever) but that side still ends up in the majority and then they’d be mad at him. This way he might be able to weasel his way into the alliance, and potentially even replace someone less obedient or beatable.
    The rest of the Healers’ votes (minus Joe’s obvious Ben vote) are confusing to me. Why didn’t they talk to each other and actually try to all vote for the same person?? I guess just because they’re all on the bottom doesn’t mean they actually want to work together… I feel like Desi’s vote may have just been a throwaway? And Cole’s vote was also weird. Was he trying to throw his vote on Joe to protect Desi? Or did Mike tip him off about siding with the majority?
    This was actually a pretty fun episode even though the actual result was predictable and the first half felt like they threw every new twist idea at the wall to see what would stick. Speaking of twists, I was very disappointed that the single large serving of spaghetti was not served in a trough.

      1. In her ponderosa video, Desi said the healers had discussed one person to vote for, so I guess that person was Lauren. The healers were a hot mess this episode though.

      2. I was annoyed that the edit clearly didn’t show us enough about Desi to know why the Healers lied to her and/or didn’t include her.

        Also, is it wrong that I suspect Chrissy is the reason for the after tie vote going to Desi? It makes no sense to me that it wasn’t Joe. Again, wtf happened that made it Desi?

          1. Stop it. I am not the only one who felt this edit was really poor. I am not an idiot who simply didn’t grok the episode.

            Also, your comment had nothing to do with my statement which was about why the HEALERS lied to her.

          2. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to infer that you were an idiot. The other Healers obviously heard that Desi was the target. We saw Ben talking to Dr. Mike, and then Dr. Mike talking to Joe and Cole. If Dr. Mike and Cole hadn’t voted for Joe, Desi would have been voted out on the first vote.

          3. Again, you are talking to me like an idiot. My complaint was with the edit and the relationship we never ever saw. *glare*

          4. Sorry, that’s not my intention. You asked why the other Healers lied to Desi. I said it was because they knew the majority alliance was voting for her and they couldn’t save her, so they kept their mouths shut. Half of them turned on Joe, while Joe (and Desi) either voted randomly or didn’t know what was going on (Desi obviously didn’t).

            I don’t think that was me talking to you like an idiot, just explaining what I think happened.

        1. Joe’s “I didn’t flip on you, baby girl” when Desi was leaving suggests that they had a “never vote for each other” pact.

          1. True, but we already knew from their swap tribe that Desi was already considering flipping on Joe to save herself.

          2. True, and also it occurred to me after writing the above post that Joe was probably saying whatever he needed to to lower the odds of Desi bad-mouthing him at Ponderosa.

    1. It seemed like after Ben got Mike on his side, Mike then went to Cole, as there was a shot of them by the well with Mike saying things, and Cole listening.

  23. I don’t like Ben, Chrissy, Ryan or Lauren. I like JP more than any of them. I actually like Joe, God help me. He really makes me root for him. I like how he has no options so just stirs up shit with Ben and it works. I didn’t like when Chrissy told him to stop talking at TC. Chrissy annoys me. I also hate Cole. God, fuck this season! See you guys next week.

    1. If joe could pull together Mike, Devon, JP and the younger blond girl that is still in the game and take down the annoying people, that could maybe salvage this season and turn it into a pretty good one.

    1. Its middling Survivor right now. Its not bad but its not great. I think casual Survivor fan me from about 3 years ago would have considered it good, but now that I talk about Survivor all week I find it middling because it doesn’t leave a ton to talk about. Nobody is making great moves, nobody is making terrible moves (except Sexy Stupid Cole [TM Taako]) everyone is making the “just right” move. Its Goldilocks Survivor.

    1. I do find it interesting that Ryan and Chrissy’s alliance is still getting airtime, and their idol shenanigans are getting airtime, but we didn’t seem so interested with their strategic take right now. It’s kind of like they’re off on their own separate plotline whilst Ben gets on with the issue of actually voting people out.

  24. (Disclaimer: I’m not 100% sold on the theory I’m about to float) Like everybody else I was baffled by the decision to get rid of Desi rather than Joe at first. But upon further reflection, I think it illustrates the difference between Survivor the TV show and Survivor the game. Joe is an obnoxious idol-finding savant who is all but twirling his mustache, which is great for Survivor the TV show, which has the audience rooting for his comeuppance, but in Survivor the game he’s just about zero-percented himself. Conversely, despite being incredibly easy on the eyes, Desi is providing nearly no material for Survivor the TV show, but in Survivor the game she’s proven to be a threat on all dimensions of the game.

    In addition, I think the plan is still to Pagong the Healers for the time being, and it’s not crazy to think that the odds of Joe finding an idol in the next three days are lower than the odds of Desi winning the next immunity challenge. (Don’t get me wrong, though; on balance I think it’s a bad idea to leave a chaotic player like Joe in the game, just like it was a mistake for Peih-Gee and Redacted to think they could herd Abi-Maria for three weeks).

      1. *Basically* unless Survivor pulls the classic save the minority alliance stunt they pulled in WA to try and save Shirin

    1. This didn’t feel like an instance where their voting of Desi seemed out of the blue. They did bring her up as part of the plan, and if the original plan was to split votes with guys voting for Desi, then she would have had 4 votes to Joe’s 3 before Lauren’s advantage came into play, so it seemed like she was the target all along. So I agree, she must not have been giving them that much. Her most compelling moment was her (subtitled) whispering of “temporarily” when giving back the idol, which itself was edited to make it seem like Ryan at least noticed and considered her a threat.
      The only real issue is that it didn’t make a ton of sense to split in the first place.

      1. Having watched her Ponderosa, I found her smart, thoughtful, and interesting. I really don’t get her edit. If her social game was so threatening, why did we see none of it?

          1. Or perhaps, Desi’s edit sucks, and you have completely bought into the notion that this must mean she’s boring without any evidence at all?

        1. I agree Desi was under-edited, but only going to tribal once in the pre-merge and not making it to the final 6 or so is a recipe for getting under-edited. Plus, Desi was arguably twist-screwed, and the show tends to not want us to get invested in such players (example: Jessica Lewis).

        2. Also, a social game that is more threatening than Joe’s is not the same thing as “so threatening”.

    2. I agree with you aside from the fact that I think Joe finding an idol has a higher probability than Desi winning immunity at a random carnival game

      1. But if the idol was found and not played last tribal, will there even be an idol for Joe to find?

          1. Plus there’s no reason to think that the third idol from the tribe phase isn’t out there somewhere (in fact, does anybody know about Mike’s idol now that Jessica’s gone?).

          2. But like, is it that high? The stats of ‘found two idols’ looks great for Joe, but remember that, after finding the clue, he needed help from COLE of all people to actually determine where to dig. And without that help from Cole on the first, he never would have found the second, which he found through shear determination of knowing where it should be. If anything, the fact that he found so much time to dig for the second is the best indicator of his idol finding ability. But overall i’m not convinced Joe is all that amazing at finding idols given that to date he has been unable to find a clue, figure it out, and get the idol on his own.

          3. But I would not count on Joe winning any challenges. We saw him collapsing in the very first challenge in the first episode. He is not a physical threat, and as we have seen in the post-merge challenges, he is not a balance challenge.

    3. Desi is more of a social and physical threat than Joe. She has a much higher chance of being friendly with everyone and working her way into a crack in the alliance and getting them to turn on each other – Joe is never going to make that happen.

      I don’t think there are any more idols to find. Joe played his idol last week, and the replacement for that idol was found by Ryan this week. Joe may find another advantage, but not an idol until someone plays one.

  25. Preview talk: Guys, it might LOOK like Ryan telling everyone “the idol is in my pants” is him telling everyone about the idol, but that’s actually just his go-to pickup line.

  26. This season is trending downwards for me. I was mentally checked out for the most of the episode. Didn’t even care too much as to who would find the idol. Joe staying over Desi is good for some shenanigans but he is pretty poor survivor player so may be we will just get one more big bang from him before he whimpers out. I am struggling to come up with any storyline that could make this season exciting again for me. They have not developed Dr Mike’s character well so he is not even a good root-able underdog.

    Some other observations –
    – Ben is being set up for a blindside IMO. I would be surprised if it is as early as next week though.
    – I am glad Ryan was the one to find the idol given he was the only one to use his brain to hid the clue plate all together. Not sure why Chrissy wanted Ryan to see the plate when she could have just clued him in if she wanted to.
    – So Chrissy is now 5/5 in voting out women. Still don’t agree that this is some kind of proof of her being sexist though. I also think we won’t see another female boot till F7 at least.
    – I think winner is between Chrissy, Lauren and Devon.

  27. @purplerockandy:disqus and @purplerockjohn:disqus since you will yet again have very little to talk about, maybe you should spend half the pod trashing the Justice League movie so we all don’t have to see it to make fun of it ourselves

      1. If you want to talk about a movie, I recommend the early 90’s classic Prayer of the Rollerboys, starring Corey Haim and Patricia Arquette. It’s about a bunch of Rollerboys, though I don’t remember much praying happening. I seem to recall it being a dystopian look at a world where Rollerboys reign supreme. It used to be on HBO every other day between the hours of 3 and 5pm.

      2. I’m still ticked that we never got a review from you of Ben Affleck’s The Accountant from an accountant’s perspective.

    1. Two things: 1) there’s actually a fair amount to talk about this week. 2) I don’t watch those shitty movies.

      (Also, LOL at two parents being able to see a movie before it comes out)

        1. You thought John and Andy cared about us?

          (Sean Connery opens up the door)
          “Welcome to the Purple Rock!”

      1. Here’s one: Chrissy being the best player this season is like D’Angelo Russell being the best player in a Nets vs Bulls game.

        BOOM. Nailed it.

  28. From Jeff Probst’s interview on EW.com about no one at tribal noticing 11 people voted but there were only 10 votes (possible spoiler for the start of the next episode):

    “We were HOPING someone would notice and have it cause an issue back at camp. That was the risk Lauren was taking. But as you’ll see next episode, barely a word was spoken.”

      1. I don’t know. If I’m playing in a group of 11 and Jeff shows all the votes but there are only 10, I’m going to be thinking “Something just happened” and try to find out what it was.

        1. We have a) the knowledge that there’d be a vote missing and knew what to look for, and b) the ability to rewind and rewatch though. In person you’re not necessarily keeping count and you don’t get to check back and review what happened. It’s possible people noticed that something seemed wrong but assumed they’d missed Jeff reading a vote or something.

          1. This kind of what I’ve been thinking about too. I think back to Fishbach’s comments in Cambodia about the Wentworth idol play and that organizing the vote split just seemed too complicated when you’re that tired and hungry, so I imagine losing a vote in counting is quite similar. If you’re that exhausted you just assume you missed something or miscounted or whatever. Or frankly, don’t even have the energy to count up the votes to see if they match what the total should be, especially if you have no reason to doubt they would match the total

          2. I agree with you and @rhetoricalley:disqus about exhaustion, etc., but Joe in particular looked like he sensed something was fishy after the first vote. Given how much danger he was in, I was surprised he didn’t figure it out.

          3. I imagine it kind of got lost because of how much danger he was in. Getting voted out was a much more imminent worry than how many votes were cast

          4. In a regular vote where there is a majority voting out someone and not all the votes are read, sure. But when you’re going into the vote knowing that the majority alliance is splitting the vote, you’re counting each vote as they go. And with each vote Jeff is reminding you of the total: “4 for Joe, 3 for Desi, 1 for Ben, 1 for Lauren”, you’re thinking “Two votes left, I hope our vote-split plan works!” and then Jeff says “One vote left”.

  29. Alright, so I made it through the comments and I guess I’m confused as to why Chrissy in specific is getting blamed for all the women going home. Katrina was an obvious outsider, and after Chrissy bonded with Ryan it made sense to keep the mindless and loyal muscle that is JP, which means you go Roark/Ali. Now that it’s a pagong, Jessica was the routine “we’re not sure if they have an idol so audible to the woman” vote that always happens (and I’ll point out that targeting her may have saved Chrissy from going home if they had went after Joe), then you get to Desi, who was arguably the best challenge contributor male or female, whereas Joe is so grating there’s no way he’ll get anyone to flip to save him. I know it’s not a good look that all the women (and equally telling, almost all the minorities) are gone, but I ain’t blaming Chrissy for taking unnecessary risks just to help the sisterhood.

    1. I think it’s in part things that have come from exit interviews, but also what we haven’t seen from Chrissy, which is any effort whatsoever to align herself with another woman. Apart from some lip-service to keeping Ashley back before the swap, and the edit doing its best to make it look like she was a pair with Katrina, has she ever even hinted at allying with any of the women? Not Roark. Not Ali. Have we even seen her speak to Lauren since the merge? How about Ashley?

      That doesn’t mean all the votes are her fault, necessarily. But by far the majority of Chrissy scenes fail the Bechdel test, and she does bear some responsibility for that being the case.

      1. That’s not a Chrissy-specific problem though. The show often doesn’t bother showing players outside of their set storylines. Ryan has pretty much only talked with her, Ali, and (way back when) Devon. Ashley has been invisible outside of some brief moments with JP and Devon. We haven’t had scenes of Joe with Lauren or Ben with Desi or Mike with Ashley because it sprawls the narrative too far out, especially at the merge. I’m not gonna hold Chrissy accountable because they didn’t show her talking to people not in her alliance when that happens with everyone. The *show* fails the Bechdel test, but it does so because those other relationships aren’t driving the narrative, so why invest time in them?

        As far as Roark, Chrissy *did* try to talk with her and it was obvious that wasn’t going to work for either pair. And then when it came to Ali, that story was all about it being Ryan’s decision, so you’d just be wasting airtime showing Ali/Chrissy scenes.

        I don’t read exit interviews so sure, maybe that’s where I’m missing something, but otherwise I really don’t understand this whole “Chrissy hates women” thing.

        1. You’re completely right that the edit doesn’t show us everything, but when we have things like Roark saying ‘Chrissy never spoke to me before today’ and Ali saying ‘Chrissy was never interested in allying with me’, it’s a pretty fair assumption that we’re not being shown that footage not just because it’s not relevant to the story, but because it doesn’t exist.

          It’s also likely that gender makes people pick up on nuance differently. If Chrissy wins she will have played a great game and deserve to win, even if that was done by voting out every other woman there. But people (like me) will likely still find that a little depressing, because a narrative that suggests that a woman can succeed only by allying with men, at the expense of other women, is one that gets played out all to often in the workplace. it might be entirely unfair to assign that attitude to Chrissy – I don’t know, I’m not there. But I do think it’s not an unreasonable perception for people to have.

          1. The way Chrissy talked about Roark being smart really pinged for me as a too-competetive-with-other-women, only-room-for-one mentality kind of thing.

          2. I can be a little bit understanding because I imagine in the finance world, particularly when Chrissy was young, it was quite difficult to succeed as a woman in that field and probably the easiest way to go about it WAS to be One Of The Guys. I’m Not Like Other Women. I’m The Cool Girl. Etc. Etc. It becomes ingrained.

            These days there are so many organisations aimed at helping women get on in the workplace through mentoring schemes, networking groups and so forth. Back then? I’m guessing not so much.

          3. Ah, OK. I tend to ignore outside the show stuff, but I suppose that’s all pretty damning if accurate.

            Though still to play devil’s advocate here, it could also be a “she doesn’t talk to people not in her alliance” attitude rather than just women, which is still not good, but definitely more inline with how a lot of people play the game.

          4. There was also one line in there in the Roark episode I think where Ryan mentioned that Ali and Chrissy have no relationship whatsoever.

          5. I think you are reading too much into this. We have had all sorts of female wins in survivor
            – Spradlin winning off the back of a strong all women alliance
            – Natalie white winning by default due to Russell’s bad play
            – Michele winning due to being more acceptable passive winner to jury than an aggressive player in Aubry
            – Sarah winning by playing the most cut throat strategic game aligning with both men and women at different points.
            I am not denying there is some sexism at play in survivor at times, how can there not be when it is part of real world.

          6. I’m not sure why you think I’m arguing that the only way a woman can win Survivor is by playing an anti-female game. I’m not. People are commenting that CHRISSY seems to think she can win Survivor with an anti-female game. And she’s very possibly right. That’s very different from making that generalisation about an entire gender.

            I think BadPlayer91 really hit the nail on the head. We can respect the strategy behind the gameplay without necessarily enjoying the gameplay (much like how Brian’s strategy in Thailand to identify the Absolute Worst people and ally with them was good gameplay, but now we don’t like Thailand much because of it).

        2. Yeah, it’s exits and preseason inteviews that have really shaped this. Apparently, she decided immediately that she was never going to work with both Katrina and Roark. If true, that’s telling.

          1. It isn’t. I listened to the First one out series and have read all exit press. Chrissy not wanting to align with Katrina was due to
            – Katrina being an odd personality that seemed destined to be an early boot. A lot of people other Chrissy had her as their pick for first one out. Even production singled out her and Simone as likely first boots.
            – She wanted to avoid being in any kind of mom alliance and shed the tag of an older woman. Which given that she wants to play a very strategic game, makes sense.

            Roark stuff is more murky since we only know what was shown and what she and Ali said. Roark was actually the one least hostile to Chrissy in her exits than Ali and Jessica. The damning stuff she said about Chrissy was
            – Chrissy pin pointed her as a the designated boot from their tribe early on and chose not to talk to her.
            – Chrissy was bossy to Ali and tried to dictate strategy to her.
            First one to me makes sense given Chrissy wanted to boot out a healer and isolate the designated target. Second is likely true given Ali did align with Roark but Ali did not exactly confirm this in her exit press. Her problem with Chrissy was due to some elaborate lie she told her.

            Most of the heat is coming from Jessica’s press where she point blanked labelled Chrissy a woman hater. I have problem just accepting this at face value given
            – Jessica claims to be really good at detecting ‘woman haters’ and claimed to get such vibes from Chrissy even before meeting her.
            – She, Ali and Roark no doubt bonded on pre-merge trip and festered more hate over their eventual ouster at the hands of Chrissy.

            I wrote this elsewhere but we simply don’t enough to label Chrissy sexist or a woman hater, that goes beyond hating a survivor character. But it is fair to say that she is someone who most probably prefer working with men over women. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with that unless the reason behind the same is bias.

          2. Yes, I was waiting for the podcast to hit before commenting on Desi interview. It is definitely a continuation of the same theme around Chrissy so yeah the smoke is getting thicker and thicker. But I also find the whole exit interview to be very petty. Desi reducing a woman doing well to be about her boobs and teeth is demeaning to women in general, not to mention also a disparaging remark against men left in the game currently. Also worth noting that moral line supposedly Chrissy crossed as per Desi is a debate dating back 13 years or so. Since Twila (if not earlier) people have been swearing on their children, parents etc to get ahead in the game. Some group of people are fine with it, some aren’t.

            But circling back, I do concede that it is natural now for people to buy into these exit interviews now and label Chrissy as having some issues with women. Her own exit press is going to be very interesting now.

          3. I don’t know if Chrissy doesn’t like women or not, but just because she has voted out only women and does not want to work with other women doesn’t mean she literally doesn’t like women – it can just as easily mean that she doesn’t want to work with these women. Or that she finds it easier to manipulate men.

        3. I think the implication that “Chrissy hates women” is an exaggeration of the more basic observation that “Chrissy is choosing not to align with women.” While Chrissy’s votes start to show this, exit interviews have definitely provided strong evidence for the argument that Chrissy has made a conscious decision to avoid working with women and instead target them.

          Roark is a good example. Exit interview content insinuated that Chrissy made it clear she was not interested in working with Roark BEFORE she bonded with Ryan over his advantage gift. Thus, it appears that prior to bonding with Ryan, Chrissy already wanted to target Roark, the potential flip vote. And the fact that Chrissy elected to ‘go on a walk’ with Ryan could mean she was already hoping to swing him to her side before he revealed his advantage. Is any of this terrible and damning for Chrissy? Not entirely, but it provides evidence that Chrissy’s immediate reaction to her new tribe of 3 women and 2 men was to align with the men. She even used the threat of a women’s alliance as a tool to activate and gain loyalty from the men.

          Black Dynamite and I discussed this earlier this week, but respecting this choice and liking it are not necessarily the same. I respect and understand Chrissy’s choice to primarily align with men, as it has proven successful and seems destined to get her far in the game. But at the same time, I do not like the strategy, because even if Chrissy is doing this simply and purely as a numbers games, playing to the best odds, it still looks bad. As Reya mentions below, the storyline of a woman taking out all other women to succeed in a man’s game is not one I want to watch, even if I do appreciate the skill in it.

          Personally, I believe this is an distinct element of this season, and will shape how things turn out down the line, but that Production does not want to portray it as part of Chrissy’s success, for fear of the negative reactions many of us are having. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chrissy has already stated her strategy of aligning with men but that was cut from the edit. I could even see her bringing it up at FTC, should we make it, but that isn’t something production is likely to put forward as inherent to her narrative, particularly in the current political climate.

          1. Yeah, you and Reya are well argued and obviously aware of extra-textual evidence which might make things a little clearer. Whatever her reasons, she knew the game well enough to know this was a viable strategy, so I guess my opinion is don’t hate the player, hate the game.

            Or Probst. It’s always OK to blame it all on Probst.

          2. Or maybe it’s that Chrissy knows that women are smarter than men and she can easily manipulate and control the men, but she knows that the other women won’t be as easily manipulated, so she has to vote them out?

            Chrissy doesn’t hate women – she hates men!

          3. Again, I’ve never said Chrissy hates women, just that she has chosen not to align with them. I definitely agree, it could and probably is that she knows she has a better shot with the men than the women. Unfortunately for us, that doesn’t make for an interesting cast, and it doesn’t make for a fun season-long narrative.

      2. “and the edit doing its best to make it look like she was a pair with Katrina”

        Did it? I don’t remember ever seeing Chrissy and Katrina talking one-on-one about strategy, or anything really. We saw them in a group conversation with Alan, but he was doing most of the talking. I never got the impression that Chrissy and Katrina were working together at all.

        1. I’m thinking of the scene of the two of them at the well, and Katrina saying they needed to work together. Scraping the barrel for sure, but the editors needed SOMETHING to suggest the possibility that Chrissy might play the idol for her.

          1. Yeah, that seems like the textbook definition of a conversation where Person A really means what they’re saying, and Person B is just saying “Yeah, sure” because you should always agree with anything proposed to you whether you mean it or not.

          2. They also had confessionals from multiple other members on that team that paired or insinuated Katrina and Chrissy were interchangeable and either would be a good first vote.

          3. In their defense, on a tribe of 6 with 3 men and 3 women, and 2 of the women are 40ish and the other is 20ish, even with no other evidence, the 3 men and young woman are likely to assume that the two 40ish women are going to work together because they’re both women and older.

    2. Winning one challenge does not make you an immunity threat, especially when there is 11 players (8 immunities) left. Some of those challenges are going to be puzzles, and some will be for brawny types like JP/Cole

      1. Desi is pretty fucking brawny. She was an absolute beast in all of the pre-merge team challenges and came real close that second immunity challenge too. She straight up should be considered the best physical competitor that was still in the game.

        1. Agree to disagree – plus there’s no way she wins 4 in a row, which is how many she’d need to make a difference.

          1. I don’t think it’s that she literally has to go on a Hollowayesque immunity streak, it’s that her consistently good performance in challenges (even if she doesn’t win), coupled with her with being well-liked, was making her a jury threat. And the fact that Cole thwarted the easy vote by winning immunity probably gave them extra motivation to get rid of a challenge threat rather than an annoyance/idol threat like Joe.

          2. Agree totally. It’s weird that people are so baffled and upset about the Desi vote. Joe is annoying people left and right and ultimately probably not that good at the game. Desi is likable, smart and after doing well in the first two immunity challenges she stood out enough that the majority alliance thought it was prudent to get rid of her before Joe. I’m sure if Cole didn’t win immunity, they would have split the vote between Joe and Cole (or Desi and Cole) and Cole would have gone home for similar reasons.

          3. I too was baffled and upset at first. But as I said elsewhere, both Joe and Desi are getting edits that probably don’t reflect how they’re perceived by the other castaways, because Joe is good TV and Desi isn’t. And usually we applaud players for not giving in to mere annoyance when voting, it’s just that we’re so invested in Joe’s comeuppance.

          4. While Joe was on the beach antagonizing Ben and causing an argument, Desi was sitting in the shelter, socializing and bonding with Heroes and Hustlers.

            Desi was the greater future threat, from both a social standpoint. Physical too – remember that during the challenge in the premiere, Joe was collapsing as they were running the course – this was their first challenge on only day 3!

    3. I personally have never bought into the whole “let’s be mad at Chrissy because she’s targeting women” thing. I mean, this really is a season where the women (besides Katrina, obvs) are bigger threats than the men. I mean, Roark, Ali and Jessica were all well liked and considered potential winners on this site. And sure, Desi’s edit made it obvious that she wasn’t winning, that’s all post hoc. On the island she had to seem like a huge threat – relatively UTR, but capable in challenges, smart, likable and well spoken (with experience in pageants, which has to translate well to FTC). Compare that to the men who are left – Cole is strategically inert, Joe is annoying people left and right, Ben’s anger will likely cause him to lose favor, Mike seems too awkward to sway a jury, and JP and Ryan are in Chrissy’s pocket. In my opinion, every vote since Roark has just made people mad because the women who went home were more likable than the men who remained. I can’t argue with that, but it doesn’t make me dislike Chrissy as a person. I’m not trying to say she’s a good person or that people have to like her, but the complaints about her voting out women don’t do anything for me.

          1. I would call Amanda smart. I think she has shown a lot of intelligence during her time on Survivor. I think her issue during FTC is not being able to own her game and being too apologetic. I think she was too hung up on other people’s hurt feelings.

          2. Agreed, and I would chalk her Micronesia FTC performance to playing Survivor for 78 days almost in a row. Amanda is nevertheless a good counter-argument to the assumption that Desi would have been poised at FTC (although I think she would have).

          3. I have absolutely no memory of how she did, but she was going to win as long as she had a pulse.

      1. I was just about to bring up the pageant thing and how that elevates her FTC threat level. And while I agree 100% about what you said about Chrissy, even if she is deliberately targeting women that STILL doesn’t justify the “Chrissy hates women” take. We tolerate, no actually celebrate as good Survivor gameplay, all sorts of deception and manipulation without assuming that’s how they act IRL.

  30. With all the talk of positive and negative edits going around, I would like to state the following: No one is getting a Winner’s Edit. The Winner’s Edit is reserved for blindingly obvious (not Edgic obvious) winners who are shown as being so amazing or dominant that they are impossible to ignore (see Mike Holloway, Boston Rob, Kim, Cochran, etc.).

    The only person left who has a majorly positive edit is Mike, and while he could win, it is far from guaranteed (also possibly Devon, but his odds are much lower). Our main contenders are flawed players whose edit’s reflect this. Chrissy is solid to good at strategy, but has a massive ego and has no qualms about talking down to those who she feels are beneath her. Ryan is a massively flawed strategist, but is doing extremely well at making social connections. Ben is a very personable person, but has no tolerance for Cole’s selfishness and his pride in service makes it easy for Joe to goad him into exploding. Joe is a struggling Tony clone. Lauren makes no secret of not liking people. Cole is an idiot, an entertaining one, but also selfish. Ashley exists. JP is nothing. Someone is winning.

    1. At this point in the game in MvGX, the edit was dunking on Adam. I would have thought that would shut down all Winner’s Edit talk going forward.

      Although TBF, the Winner’s Edit theorists insist that the point is not to identify the Mike Holloways, but the Michele Fitzgeralds.

      1. In the case of OWM, wouldn’t identifying her be less about recognizing her as the winner, and more about a process of elimination of absolutely everyone else?

        1. No, it was more of a case of “why is someone so otherwise meaningless be getting any meaningful time?”

          1. Ah, ok. I remember her storyline as:
            Not a whole lot
            Stepped on the wrong mat
            I don’t need to be carried bro
            Debbie worried she’d drown herself
            HUGE JURY THREAT from Tai

          2. She was there. This was at the Live KIA after party during MvGX. I’m not sure she witnessed the dancing but she would probably think that the dude dancing with Michele looks incredibly nervous and a little drunk.

          3. She didn’t have a storyline. But I guess she was given key confessionals. That stood out because A) she didn’t have a storyline and B) were not that interesting.

            *I say “I guess” because I frankly didn’t even notice those.

          4. She was given two mini storylines – one of her turning on Nick and one of her having to vote out Julia – but no overarching storyline. Scot supposedly saw some story of her getting stronger while her fellow F3 tribemates got weaker, but uhh I guess it was left on the cutting room floor.

    2. Interesting thought. I feel like I tend to use “winner edit” to mean whatever edit the eventual winner is getting, but since we can’t know that during the season I understand that your usage makes more sense. I would agree that under your definition, no one is getting a Winner’s Edit this season. In fact, you could say that no one has gotten a Winner’s Edit since maybe Mike Holloway.