Survivor Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers Finale Liveblog: “Million Dollar Night”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the finale episode of Survivor: Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers!

 

“Million Dollar Night” – Devon Pinto, Mike Zahalsky, Chrissy Hofbeck, Ryan Ulrich and Ben Driebergen on the finale of SURVIVOR 35, themed Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers, airing Wednesday, December 20 (8:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Photo: Screen Grab/CBS ©2017 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
Matt
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  • Marlin M.

    Anyone else excited to be disappointed?

    • Hornacek

      That’s the spirit!

  • Hornacek
    • the sky is falling

      A spider man book? Wait. A. minute…….
      You’re a nerd! I didn’t know….

      • Hornacek

        It’s The Spider-Man Vault by Peter David. Spider-nerd and proud of it.

        Better than being proud of being a bellhop.

      • Hornacek

        Jeff said “spider-sense”! (swoons)

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        You seriously didn’t know that?

        • purplerockandy

          There’s no fucking way.

  • purplerockandy

    Not gonna yell.

    • Marlin M.

      lies

    • the sky is falling

      I’m impressed that I season this poor can arouse so much passion. I’ve had trouble caring at all about this season.

    • corndogshuffle

      False.

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      You’re delightful. And you’re definitely gonna yell.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Oh, sweet prince! You’re not gonna use your indoor voice at all!

    • gouis

      Yeah but what about the tie?

  • Hornacek

    Who wouldn’t rather do challenges with Rob, Andrea and Cochran than watch this finale?

  • Hornacek

    “… and even Roark.”

    Thanks Jeff.

  • the sky is falling

    Is it a first to show the final 5 on stage before the show?

  • Hornacek

    Where’s Devon? Why isn’t he on stage? And who’s this stranger next to Dr. Mike?

  • Who will this season of Survivor? Will it be:

    The whiny, weak bellop from Jersey,

    The proud penis doctor who played this season like a cockroach, just surviving,

    The mom who pissed of everyone in left in the game,

    The veteran who if he had found idols would be gone by now,

    Or the smart but quiet bright light.

    See the finale of this season of Survivor

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    I could beat all three at the same time

  • Marlin M.

    “strategic powerhouse” my ass.

  • Jeff, there weren’t that many blindsides this season. I think the first time a person was blindsided was at final 9.

    • Marlin M.

      Patrick was blindsided.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      We were blindsided by editing a couple times

    • the sky is falling

      Duh, in modern survivor, blindside means voted out

      • Violina23

        *Yells like Andy*

        GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    • Violina23

      THANK YOU!

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    Roark was the only strategic powerhouse this season #survivorreddit

    • corndogshuffle

      The less they’re on screen the better they played #SurvivorReddit

      • Marlin M.

        the more people hate them, the more they have a chance to win #survivorreddit

    • To be fair to Roark fans, (how many of them are there?) but she had potiental. She was also irrevalent to the season as the whole.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Since when was prp Fair?

    • Hornacek

      Her?

  • the sky is falling

    Mike: “nobody realizes I’m gonna win”

    not even the jury! Very sneaky, Mike!

  • Marlin M.

    so thats definitely not the final four.

  • corndogshuffle

    Are these idiots gonna let Ben walk off by himself to look for an Idol AGAIN???

    • the sky is falling

      Sure are…

      • corndogshuffle

        I can sort of forgive them for letting him go go once… but this is ridiculous.

        • the sky is falling

          I just have to again restate my objection to introduction of new idol in final episode. hate it!

          • corndogshuffle

            I mean I get it, but my bigger complaint is that the other players are making no effort at all to prevent this from happening. They might as well all quit and let him have the money.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    Rob likes playing against fans because he gets to win occasionally

    • corndogshuffle

      I wouldn’t bet on him winning a challenge.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Yeah but surely he can beat a few of the fans

        • corndogshuffle

          You’re probably right, but stop calling me Shirley.

  • Marlin M.

    Andy can i get in the podcast so i could yell?

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      I also am a person who would enjoy yelling

  • Marlin M.

    three idols in a row.

  • Hornacek

    Ben finds yet another idol. What a shock.

    • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

      #blindside

  • Marlin M.

    how the Bleep is this good television?

    • Maritimer

      This is my thing. We spent 3 episodes watching Ben hunt for idols and not a whole lot of actual strategy discussion. Ignoring the game mechanics arguments for a second, its just bad TV

      • Prom King

        Unless you love Ben! I also loved watching Tony search for idols. However I did not care for Hantz doing the same thing.

        • Maritimer

          Fair enough. I’d have thought that even then it would start to get repetitive

  • This is stupid and this the second season in the row where the hidden immuntity broke the endgame.

    • the sky is falling

      If they still have an idol at final 5, fine. But it’s too late to add a new one, said the same w adam

    • Marlin M.

      and then they call him a strategic powerhouse in the recap, freaking bullshit. Production are the strategic powerhouse finding ways to give him the idols without the other players seeing.

  • Marlin M.

    I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but production is definitely helping Ben. This is blatant.

    • corndogshuffle

      I’m more annoyed at the other players for letting him look unchecked… They all deserve to lose for just letting him run around and find all the Idols.

    • Odd choice to support Ben because let us be honest here, but no one is not a fan favorite in anyway.

      • Maritimer

        I’m don’t really buy into the rigging thing, but i get the impression production thought Ben would be a fan favourite but then he wasn’t

  • Hornacek

    So now the minimum Ben has to do to get to the FTC is make a fire better than one of these four.

    • Marlin M.

      Wouldn’t be surprised if they changed that just to saved Ben ass again.

    • And that is why the hidden immunity idol find is so stupid because there was always at least one vote who had to rely on actual social skills and not about what Ben is about to do.

  • Hornacek

    Devon makes a fire. FORESHADOWING!

  • Ryan Bilger

    Queen of the Social Game showing off all her chops there

  • the sky is falling

    Maybe I am garbage without honor, but I don’t get wanting to face the strongest people in FTC. I wanna face who’s easiest to beat!

    • corndogshuffle

      Winning with honor is nice. Winning without honor is better than losing with it.

      • the sky is falling

        Honor is for suckas. And coach.

        • corndogshuffle

          The moral of the story is that winning is always better than losing.

  • BIGBALLERSONLY

    my big ballers gonna bring me a dub

    • Alkanarra

      I unironically 100% support the ballers, if only because they’ll need to congratulate that team name aloud in the podcast. Make it happen, people!

  • Hornacek

    Ben says he’s using his idol and voting out Chrissy. I wonder who will win immunity …

    • Hornacek

      Shocker.

  • Oh good, Ben is still an idiot for taking out Chrissy when she is still the least liked person there.

  • the sky is falling

    I wasn’t looking, but is Ryan hung like Troyzan?

  • corndogshuffle

    This puzzle is so cool.

  • NearlyNina

    I owned a hand puzzle that was along the same idea as this first puzzle. Nice to see something a little bit different.

  • Ryan Bilger

    Chrissy being the season’s challenge beast is just so perfect for this season

  • the sky is falling

    Quick question, has any player in contention moved to an invisible edit late in the game faster than Ryan?

    • Ken?

      • the sky is falling

        Great call,

      • purplerockandy

        This is the correct answer.

  • prettyboyprobst

    Is this the beginning of a Chrissy-Ryan betrayal?

    • the sky is falling

      More likely it’s a boring Mike out then Devon out trajectory

  • corndogshuffle

    Oh, NOW they want to look for the Idol.

    • the sky is falling

      Awesome how they are suddenly trying to stop idol finder

      • corndogshuffle

        If anyone besides Ben wins after what we just saw, I will be very annoyed.

  • Ryan Bilger

    The hubris is strong with this one.

  • the sky is falling

    Idols are out of control when it’s the first thing they look for when on reward challenge. It’s time to stop hiding idols at reward to switch it up.

  • Marlin M.

    no confessionals for Devon yet. hmmmm

  • corndogshuffle

    Mike – “This is the best plan ever”
    Me (also Mike) – “This is the worst plan ever”

  • Yoshi Kirby And Toad

    My mom is talking edgic – she saw Devon making fire and said “oh that means he’s going to make fire at four!”

    • Purple Rock Emma

      My mom caught that too! I was surprised.

  • That is a good plan Dr. Mike. Too bad you are just a hair bit late with this lie.

  • Hornacek

    The dead superidol returns!

    • corndogshuffle

      I don’t know what I was expecting the dead superidol to do… but it sure wasn’t this.

  • Marlin M.

    yup Ben wins, he is making the other ones look like idiots.

    • the sky is falling

      I am in the minority in that I love Russell, so I should like Ben, but he just rubs me the wrong way.

      • Marlin M.

        he will go in my bottom 5 winners.

        • the sky is falling

          Meh, I’d bump him to final 7, there are some terrible winners

          • Marlin M.

            and he will be one of them.

          • the sky is falling

            Yeah, but now we are on season 35. Definitely a bottom 10 winner

      • Hornacek

        There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  • the sky is falling

    I love Mike, that pratfall is probably not a winners edit though. Let me ask edgic

  • Marlin M.

    Mike is good at challenges?

    • Hornacek

      He appeared to be great at puzzles pre-merge. Wasn’t there a challenge where you had to arrange vertical slats to make the season’s logo, and he almost snapped off his tribemate’s (Roark?) fingers because he was doing the entire puzzle part of the challenge himself?

  • Hornacek

    Thank you anonymous cameraperson for catching Dr. Mike falling on the beach on film.

    • the sky is falling

      That was the , definitely coming back edit

    • purplerockandy

      That was amaze.

  • Ben, you should not be this cocky at all. You are the number one target and you been pissing jurors the longer you stay. Finding idols is not super impressive.

  • Hornacek

    If it’s a 1-1 tie for Devon and Dr. Mike, will only Ryan be eligible to draw a rock?

    • the sky is falling

      Ryan has a rock in his pants

      • Marlin M.

        ewww

    • No,they have to recast votes before they go to rocks.

    • No because the revote rule is back in play. Chrissy and Ryan (cough chrissy) will
      make the decision

  • Marlin M.

    Does Ben play the idol before or after they vote?

    • the sky is falling

      Who cares no rules anymore on survivor, do whatever

  • the sky is falling

    Props to Jeff for calling them out on not tracking Ben

  • Marlin M.

    I dont think Devon wins, what winner gets their first confessional 40 mins into the finale

  • the sky is falling

    Kinda loving how Ben has the upper hand here

  • corndogshuffle

    Just end the season now. Only Ben deserves to win now.

  • the sky is falling

    Ok, that was an epic vote

    • the sky is falling

      Don’t get me wrong, this season still blows. Mike was the only fun winner for this season, tempted to not watch the last hour, UGH!

  • Ryan Bilger

    Good on Devon for sussing it out, though there is zero question now that Ben wins.

  • Firstly, Fuck you Ben. Secondly, Nice showmanship Ben.

  • prettyboyprobst

    Devon using “literally” correctly is so John.

  • Marlin M.

    predictable ending coming! yawn!

  • corndogshuffle

    Mike should grow the beard back. It really suited him.

    • Fijian Banded Iguana

      To the extent that Mike could be hot, he was Island Hot. I almost want to join Twitter to tell him he needs that beard.

      • corndogshuffle

        It’s weird because I don’t usually like beards, but Mike’s really worked for him.

  • Hornacek

    So does this mean Jeff doesn’t have to speak to Dr. Mike at the reunion? Did that count?

  • Marlin M.

    Good play by Devon tho. saved himself.

  • And yes, in the context of this season the final four twist is stupid Probst,

  • Hornacek

    Episode opens with first episode long credits, Jeff talks to players live during the episode – I’m guessing this finale came up short in length.

    • Marlin M.

      but its the best finale ever.

      • Hornacek

        “Let’s go the audience and talk to Blossom.”

        • Violina23

          Ask her about if she vaccinates. (UGH)

          • Hornacek

            Almost as bad as her liking Colton that season.

          • Violina23

            Debatable which is worse….. actually no, it’s the antivax.

  • the sky is falling

    I guess I’m rooting for Ryan to win now?

  • corndogshuffle

    I also like this challenge, looks really cool.

    • the sky is falling

      On a better season… It’s certainly an engineering marvel

  • Hornacek

    Jeff said one of you will join the jury. He didn’t say one of you will be voted out.

  • Ryan Bilger

    Watch Ryan win immunity

  • the sky is falling

    Ben is going to be the winner I should love but just cant

  • Hornacek

    If Ben loses this challenge his friends will be asking him to spell HUSTLERS for the rest of his life.

  • the sky is falling

    Impressively dramatic final challenge tho, have to say if first 90 percent of this season hadn’t sucked so badly this would be a strong finish

  • Hornacek

    This challenge could take hours.

    • Good final immunity challenge then.

    • corndogshuffle

      13 hours?

      • the sky is falling

        Was that the westman one?

        • corndogshuffle

          Bob a buoy!

          Edit – possibly my favorite season!

      • Hornacek

        127 hours?

        • corndogshuffle

          500 miles?

          • Hornacek

            La-da-da-dat-dah!

          • corndogshuffle

            La da da … wait for it… da!

  • Marlin M.

    We all know Ben is winning. get on with this crap please.

  • the sky is falling

    guys, can we hijack a purple rock post for amazing race discussion?

    • purplerockandy

      no

  • Hornacek

    Ok that was impressive. Go Chrissy!

    • the sky is falling

      Chrissy win would be a nice bait and switch from editors

      • Streets_Ahead

        It would make a lot of people on the internet unhappy and that can be fun.

        • the sky is falling

          Isn’t Reddit rooting for Chrissy tho, I would love to ruin Andy tho

          • Streets_Ahead

            Haven’t been there recently but Chrissy didn’t seem especially popular when I was. Though I don’t think anyone this season is really popular.

          • Dezbot

            Devon is popular with me and my cats.

          • Hornacek

            My cats slept through the whole finale. They didn’t care about any of the players left in the game.

  • the sky is falling

    Callin a woman who is 40 old, is not a good look, survivor

    • corndogshuffle

      Technically she is 46, but I’m not really arguing your point.

      • the sky is falling

        Oh, 46 not old either, Eminem is 45

        • the sky is falling

          My old threshold is 60plus

          • purplerockandy

            I’m 40. 46 is ancient.

          • Fijian Banded Iguana

            Am I too new to post a fitting reply?

          • purplerockandy

            Never.

          • Fijian Banded Iguana

            Well, shit. I wish I’d thought of one. But I am forty-six and still like myself and crap.

        • Hornacek

          For Survivor, 46 is now ancient.

  • Hornacek

    Take THAT, Kelly Wigglesworth!

    • corndogshuffle

      And Kim, I guess?

      • Tiago

        Yes, Kim too

      • Tiago

        And Jenna M

        • Hornacek

          My favorite winner!

          • Tiago

            Really, wow! I love her, not my fav winner but love her anyway

          • Hornacek

            Sarcasm mode off.

          • Tiago

            Oh, lol, can’t read sarcasm. She is a great character but there are a lot of winner ahead of her

          • Hornacek

            She is my favorite winner who wanted to quit the game post-merge.

          • Violina23

            Was she *that* terrible? (Never saw her season)

      • Hornacek

        The show seems to lionize Kelly and forgotten about Kim.

        • corndogshuffle

          It’s weird how under the radar Kim can be despite being Survivor’s GOAT.

  • If Chrissy wins then the lesson of season should be: always target the person from New Jersey first. They made seem crazy(Tony), unlikable(Chrissy), or just not playing the game(Michele), but if you allow them to get to the end they are dangerous.

    • Violina23

      We have to put on a front since we have to put up with the Jersey Jokes all the time.

  • Marlin M.

    “Bell will not be” thanks Ryan for jinxing it.

  • Hornacek

    Ben is sounding a bit like Rupert. “I guess I’m not allowed to have my dreams come true.”

    • That is why Ben is so unlikable to many.

      • the sky is falling

        It’s bad when you are less likable than Russell, but maybe that’s just me

    • corndogshuffle

      “So much for my dreams”

  • the sky is falling

    Pedantic editor time… After winning survivor, after taxes you are not a millionaire

    • Violina23

      I think I read somewhere that they adjust the amount so, after taxes, they still have a million.

      (It’s possible I hallucinated that)

  • Matt, yes. Did you not see the leaked audience fan gathering sheet?

  • the sky is falling

    Logging my dislike of how this secret advantage at final 4 is playing out

  • Marlin M.

    Production helping Ben out even more.

  • Marlin M.

    I wonder who’s winning the fire making? ohhh I’m intrigued. not.

    • the sky is falling

      I’m gonna have to rewatch Borneo or Vlachos season to remember why I love survivor after this monstrosity

      • Marlin M.

        We all know Devon is going to lose.

  • Fuck this twist. I know why they wanted to this but having a person like Ben who has been immune from production twists without a buffer where he has to rely on a natural game makes it worse.

    • the sky is falling

      In my mind, the group chat FTC is worse, I hate that so much

      • purplerockandy

        Couldn’t disagree more.

  • Hornacek

    Ryan: “I couldn’t beat him.”
    Devon: “I know.”

    Slam!

  • Marlin M.

    bottom 5 season, come at me!

    • the sky is falling

      Bottom 1. Least I have enjoyed a survivor ever

      • the sky is falling

        This season is like the Star Wars reboot of television

    • Tiago

      No way

      • Marlin M.

        look at the writing in the wall. Ben is winning and thats due to 3 idols and a changed of the rules.

        • Tiago

          True, bottom 10, but I can think about other 5 seasons that make me want to stop watching survivor

    • Diego Armando

      If Ben wins, 7th worst.
      If Chrissy/Ryan wins, 6th worst.

  • Hornacek

    ” The flint broke … this means I should do nothing!”

    • When you practicing making fires there is not much you can do when that happens.

      • Hornacek

        In Devon’s defense, he said he has made many fires during the game. Ryan would have to practice right up until leaving for tribal.

    • corndogshuffle

      To be fair, that was also his reaction to Ben searching for his THIRD IDOL IN A ROW.

  • Marlin M.

    Never felt like turning off an episode of survivor until now ( did not watch Nicaragua live)

    • the sky is falling

      I have seen every season and have never had less interest in who wins than this time

      • Marlin M.

        I have a very good idea of who is winning. Cant wait until this season ends.

        • the sky is falling

          Good news is that next season is less than 2 months away

  • Marlin M.

    BTW Jeff probst posted a photo of the finalist seats on stage with torches behind them and it was 2 heroes and 1 hustler torch.

  • Hornacek

    Why am I seeing a commercial with MC Hammer coming down a chimney?

    • the sky is falling

      Because it’s hammer time?

      • Hornacek

        He did say just that.

  • the sky is falling

    Thinking about it more, forced fire challenge sucks

    • the sky is falling

      Not really in the spirt of the game I think

  • Marlin M.

    Ryan, zero votes

  • Marlin M.

    Bye Devon 🙁

    • the sky is falling

      Devon is the only winner that moves this season above bottom zero for me

  • Tiago

    “Give you a minute to think about it” Think what?

    • Hornacek

      They need a line to go to commercial on.

  • Diego Armando

    Ryan will be skunked. The amount of pimping Jeff is giving to Chrissy is slightly alarming.

  • Hornacek

    I hoped Jeff would say “Chrissy, it’s time to vote.” and she’d reply “Can’t I just tell you now? It’s Ryan. Duh.”

  • Marlin M.

    Let me know when Devon loses, my rage is blinding me at the moment.

    • Streets_Ahead

      You’re not numb yet? I’m not sure if I envy you or pity you.

      • the sky is falling

        I gave up on this season 8 weeks ago

    • Diego Armando

      You may rage now. Ben won.

  • Diego Armando

    Chrissy winning would be fitting for this train wreck.

    • the sky is falling

      Not as much as Mike winning

  • Hornacek

    At this rate they won’t reveal the winner until 15 minutes into the reunion.

    • Tiago

      10 min FTC

    • Alkanarra

      To be fair, they can just skip the jury part since they made the vote so damn obvious.

    • corndogshuffle

      Or the FTC goes like this

      *Jury* – why the hell should we vote for someone besides Ben?”

      *Chrissy/Ryan* – Ehhh

      *Jury* – Unanimous Ben vote!

  • the sky is falling

    Because I am drunk, I must now say, fuck this season to hell, go away

    • Marlin M.

      I wish I was drunk watching this shit.

      • the sky is falling

        I can see a world where this was a great season, finished strong, but first 80 percent sucked

    • corndogshuffle

      Lets match each other drink for drink!

    • NearlyNina

      I am also getting through this finale with the help of alcohol. That combined with very little sleep and a mostly empty stomach should make my last day at work tomorrow FUN!

  • Hornacek

    Jeff said this is the first time the final spot in a final 3 will be determined by a fire-making challenge. Wasn’t Becky and Sundra for the final 3?

    • Alkanarra

      As was Cydney/Aubry.

      • Streets_Ahead

        Mama C and Rodney too

        • Hornacek

          Jeff has Survivor amnesia.

  • Marlin M.

    I wonder who wins?

    • Alkanarra

      While I too don’t love this episode, I gotta say your unbridled hatred is keeping me amused. So at least there’s that.

  • Tiago

    Okay, we are going to matches”

  • Marlin M.

    Im so shocked * roll eyes* Check to Ben please.

    • Streets_Ahead

      I don’t think that will be a problem.

    • Diego Armando

      I don’t know. They are being so subtle.

      • Streets_Ahead

        About as subtle as all those times they kept us guessing if Ben might find the idol.

  • the sky is falling

    Where’s your tie now Reddit?

  • Diego Armando

    You deserved better Devon.

  • the sky is falling

    Well well well, I guess you bastards are missing Phillip Shepphard right about now

    • Tiago

      Never thought I would

    • Diego Armando

      I am.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Nah I’m good.

    • Ike1

      An army of Chrissys and Ryans couldn’t make me miss that bozo Phillip. NEVER. Phillip is the worst, was the worst, and will always be the worst.

      Well, the worst except for Russell Hantz.

      And NaOnka.

      And the Brazilian abomination.

      • the sky is falling

        Phillip and Russell are the saviors of survivor 🙂

      • Streets_Ahead

        I mean it’s been a while since I’ve him on survivor but I think Philip might be worse than any of them because at least the other people we annoying by being them selves. He was annoying and was doing it intentionally by doing some fake ass obnoxious personality.

        • the sky is falling

          You can’t tell me he is worse than these Schlubs, I won’t hear it

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Nah.

  • Diego Armando

    The good news is that I caught a shiny Ribombee when Jeff was introducing the episode.

  • “Fun” fact: Ben and Chrissy are the first two heroes to make it to final tribal council

    • corndogshuffle

      And yet, they won’t be the first Heroes to receive zero votes!

      • Streets_Ahead

        Didn’t the heroes get lots of votes? That’s how they all ended up on the jury.

        • corndogshuffle

          *zero votes at FTC

          I ain’t mad, that’s the kind of thing I would say.

          • Streets_Ahead

            I mean even then Tom and JT did well for themselves.

          • corndogshuffle

            Dammit I just realized what it is like talking to me all the time. Well done, fellow internet goer.

          • Streets_Ahead

            Hey look we have to get any ounce of joy and humor we can out of this finale/season. It feels like an obligation.

          • corndogshuffle

            If you don’t laugh, it’s just sad!

          • the sky is falling

            Did you miss the coconuts? /s

          • Hornacek

            They’re the Siskel and Ebert of Survivor!

  • They did not really vote 8 people out of game. Devon went out by fire-making challenge and only Ben voted out Lauren.

  • Marlin M.

    When some of you watch this season back ( and I know im not), you will see Ben was so obvious.

    • Maritimer

      I think Ben falls into the Jeremy category of winners in terms of obviousness – we all knew he was winning if he made FTC, there was enough of an open question as to whether or not he could make it to leave doubts that he would win

  • By The Numbers

    Not a great look for this new F4 twist to take out the season’s best player, who had perfectly set himself up for a F3

  • the sky is falling

    I do like this twist of interviewing final vote outs live

  • Marlin M.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if production changed this rule because of Ben. Not even the press knew this twist was happening.

    • Hornacek

      This fire-making twist was announced a few months (?) before this season started.

  • HHH is the Survivor season 2017 deserves.

    • Ryan Bilger

      Game Changers and this. What a wonderful year.

      • the sky is falling

        Haha

      • EmAndScoutInBK

        It was very 2017

    • Hornacek

      Our problem is that in 2017, we got tired of winning.

  • the sky is falling

    Biggest insult is that Devon looks like shit with short hair

    • corndogshuffle

      Am I just drunk or does he look like Cameron from Ferris Bueller?

      • the sky is falling

        You are drunk, he is Kylo , Adam driver

        • corndogshuffle

          I accept that compliment and will research the possibility of Devon looking like Ben (not Driebergen).

    • NearlyNina

      I mean he definitely lost the cool surfer dude vibe, but , I have to say, the Sunday school haircut combined with his obvious nerves in front of the jury kinda just made me want to have sex with him…

      • the sky is falling

        I’m a hetero guy, but yeah I guess he is still sexy, just better w surfer hair

    • Purple Rock Emma

      STRONG DISAGREE.

    • Dezbot

      He went from being Poor Man’s Dave Grohl to Poor Man’s Krist Novoselic (teenage version complete with hair!).

    • ExtraLargePelican

      take it back

  • Hornacek

    Devon’s hair makes him look so different.

  • Diego Armando

    So do we think this Final Four format will Survive beyond Ghost Island.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Is survivor about making fans happy? Answer that and you will have the answer to your question.

      • the sky is falling

        How many seasons was this renewed for I give it till season 40, sigh

        • Streets_Ahead

          I saw they’re filming up through season 40 in Fiji so not official but should be at least through 40.

          • the sky is falling

            I guess eventually we have to prepare ourselves for the end

  • Marlin M.

    Cant believe this shitty season has made me root for Chrissy to beat Ben.

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      I was right there with you

      • Dezbot

        I rooted for Ryan out of those three because the looks on Chrissy’s and Ben’s faces would’ve been hilarious.

  • Boo Jeff that twist was awful. I hope you retire it after next season.

    • Marlin M.

      better be or I’m going to retired.

      • the sky is falling

        That’s a lie

  • Ryan Bilger

    Ryan thinks he needs four votes to win in a jury of eight, which is just the kind of mathematical prowess we’ve seen all season

    • corndogshuffle

      I mean, to be fair, he doesn’t need a majority to win. Just a plurality.

      • Ryan Bilger

        Touche, touche

  • Good on you, Ryan. Zero votes for you tonight.

  • Marlin M.

    Probts just said this is permanent.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/jSxK33dwEMbkY/giphy.gif

  • Diego Armando

    We just had a mom winner, Chrissy, and you are nowhere near her level.

    • purplerockandy

      TBF, she didn’t know that.

  • Diego Armando

    Hell you aren’t even at ADAM’s level, Chrissy.

  • Tiago

    Lottery night perhaps?

  • the sky is falling

    Time to get pissed about group chat format of FTC for the second time!

  • Marlin M.

    ” one of the Best FTC”- Jeff

    I wonder who wins, Jeff? I wonder who?

    • Streets_Ahead

      Not the viewers.

  • Hornacek

    Wait, another commercial? This FTC better be only 5 minutes long.

  • corndogshuffle

    955 and they haven’t started FTC yet? Actually, if all this means is we get more Survivor and less Reunion Show, I’m happy with that.

  • Marlin M.

    Natalie, Bob, Fabio & Michelle are excited tonight.

    • corndogshuffle

      I’d be excited too if I

  • Marlin M.

    Maybe production will give Ben another idol to null the Chrissy’s votes.

  • the sky is falling

    People not standing up and giving a final speech is bullshit

    • Marlin M.

      this season doesn’t deserve that.

      • the sky is falling

        I just can’t deal with them changing fundamental portion of game

    • Tiago

      I need another wicked stepmother speech

    • Ryan Bilger

      Do we really need more people talking about how great they were and how the evil final three robbed them of their chance at a million dollars and oh by the way I guess here’s a question for you?

      • the sky is falling

        It resulted in sue hawk speech and vlachos may have won because of spencer speech

        • purplerockandy

          LOL over Spencer changing the votes of 5 people.

          Also, doesn’t this format give someone MORE of an opportunity to rep for a player? That person gets to talk the whole time, instead of just once.

        • Hornacek

          But this new format not only gets the jurors talking to each other, it gets the final 3 talking to each other (at least more than in the old format). In the old format, 99% of the time all conversations were between 1 juror and 1 finalist.

  • Streets_Ahead

    I like the round table thing, but must we frame it with Outwit Outplay Outlast? It was hacky enough when players brought it up and even worse now.

    • the sky is falling

      Hate it man

      • purplerockandy

        Best thing to happen to Survivor since Boston Rob.

    • By The Numbers

      Would’ve been fantastic if it was framed as “How did you Hero, Heal, and Hustle?”

      • Streets_Ahead

        At least I could laugh at that.

    • Maritimer

      I’m with you. Just open it up and let it free flow and see what happens. I’m not sure it needs to be broken up like that.

    • jniedj

      I’m actually on the other side here. I like that it gives the players a frame of how to vote – based on game-play. On the other hand, you have Big Brother where they vote for the worse player to win because they didn’t like that far superior player made it to the end by actually playing the game.

  • the sky is falling

    JP still silent

  • sharculese

    Hey guys I know this is the least opportune time to share this but I just got home and wanted to any way, I’m probably gonna be gone from the liveblog comments for the foreseeable future because I’ve decided to join a support group to help me get sober and Wednesdays at 8 appears to be the best/most convenient option for me.

    • the sky is falling

      Congrats to you, we will miss you though, sad

    • Alkanarra

      Good on you, brother. Stay strong.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Believe it or not something are more important than survivor and that certainly is way up there. Good luck and congratulations on taking these steps. Hope to still see you around other places.

      • sharculese

        I mean, I’ll still be here, I just won’t be commenting during the episode.

        • Fijian Banded Iguana

          You’re one of the reasons I finally stopped lurking and signed up. All the upvotes in the world to you.

    • Proud of you, sharc. You got this.

    • Diego Armando

      Thank you for sharing.

    • the sky is falling

      But can’t you get sober on Tuesday or Thursday?

      • sharculese

        I work Tuesday and Thursday nights, and while the group I joined has meetings then, they’re in much less convenient locations.

        • the sky is falling

          Not trying to be a dick, love your commentary, I should probably join you, just not sure support groups work for me , need to,figure it out on my own

        • MsFjordstone

          Good luck, just wanted to pop out of mostly-lurk mode to wish you well, and let you know that you’re one of my top five favorite commenters to read here (unlike this Survivor season which is definitely a bottom five).

    • We are going to miss you.

    • Purplerockmatt

      Gonna miss you Sharc, but you gotta take care of yourself first and foremost

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      we’ll miss your comments, but I’m glad you’re taking good care. Plus, there’s plenty of other commenting opportunities. Thinking of you.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Good for you. That is brave as shit. I’m proud of you and happy for you and will just have to enjoy your comments on the other four days of the PRP week. Good luck!

    • That’s great to hear! I’m glad you’re taking care of yourself, and I wish you luck.

    • NearlyNina

      Taking care of yourself first and foremost needs to be your priority. As much as I’m sure we’d all like to think watching Survivor and arguing about it on the internet will solve all our problems, life doesn’t quite work out that way unfortunately. We’ll miss you during the liveblog, but the comments section is always pretty active afterwards as well.

      Best of luck with working through your crap! I’m also looking to get support for working through my own crap (more depression/anxiety based), so I get how hard it can be to get to the point where you need to admit that maybe you kinda need to take stock and deal with some stuff on a more proactive level.

      2017 has been a pretty shit year on many levels, so hopefully 2018 will be a kinder and healthier year for all of us in the PRP community. And bring some better seasons of Survivor!

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8ef1c684a51a63c66f49c8a10e4053421cf85ad6a6432d98e44ad65c7fa16ccf.gif

    • StormofCuteness

      You will be missed, but that’s great news! I’ve dealt with my own (but different) addiction issues, and I applaud your efforts. Also, as a West Coaster, I’m always late anyway so you can just join us when you’re able. I will always be here for you. 💜

    • Prom King

      Good luck with the support group. You’re awesome and strong and can do this.

    • purplerockandy

      Godspeed my man. Plus, the best time to comment is on the podcast posts, since those are more about me than the live blog.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      It’s more fun to show up to the comments after the fact anyway. Good for you making a change. Good luck.

    • gouis

      Well just have to save it for the Friday post then.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Good luck Sharc. I’m the adult child of alcoholism and I’m super proud of you for taking care of yourself.

    • Hornacek

      Good for you and good luck!

    • Diego Armando

      Good luck.

    • Dezbot

      Good luck, sharc!

    • forever1267

      You Go, (Gender Neutral Person)!!!

  • Hornacek

    Chrissy breaking out the personal details about Joe … just like Clay!

  • Got to the fire and stopped watching. Like what even was this season

  • Marlin M.

    Im disliking Cole.

  • the sky is falling

    So, no one else is furious about the new FTC format? Am I on an island?

    • purplerockandy

      I like to call it “New FTC format and Phillip Shepperd Island”.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Yes.

  • Marlin M.

    Ryan is definitely going to win.

  • Tiago

    DRAG HIM DESI!!

  • Ryan Bilger

    Alright, who on production fed Chrissy the number of female contestants in Survivor history?

    • purplerockandy

      She’s a math genius.

  • Hornacek

    Chrissy dropping more Survivor stats.

  • Ryan Bilger

    Desi is absolutely on point with the questions, props where due.

  • Chrissy, you won one individual reward (that stupid family reward), but I can not take away your immunity wins.

  • Marlin M.

    how is this the best FTC?

    • Diego Armando

      Because Chrissy is not tanking?

    • By The Numbers

      Because everything is awful

    • Streets_Ahead

      Because it means this season is over?

  • Diego Armando

    Troy was more self aware than Ryan.

    • Hornacek

      I liked Ryan’s confessional before FTC where he said he would have to convince everyone that he was running everything, and then immediately admitted that was a lie.

  • Marlin M.

    “Best game in survivor history” fuck this shitty season.

  • Hornacek

    Ben: “You people on the jury were trying to destroy my family.”

    • Head Architect Sylvia

      Chrissy: That’s a great point Ben, but Ashley has three older sisters and her great uncle invented the electric toothbrush.

  • No, Ben has not played one of the best games in the history of Survivor. In fact I would argue that he played an awful game.

  • Marlin M.

    Maybe I’m a horrible person because I did not feel a thing with that Ben speech.

    • Tiago

      Then I am too

    • MsFjordstone

      I didn’t either. I mean, sure, I admire that he was in the marines and went to war — two things I could never do — and I’m sorry it was so rough on him, but most people manage to send their kids to college by *getting a job and saving their money.* Survivor isn’t the only route to get your kids into college!

      • Prom King

        For some people, getting a job and saving money still doesn’t equal enough money to send your kids to college. This is a basic flaw in the American system. And is also why student loans exist and why people take decades to pay them back.

    • Hornacek

      I didn’t like myself for thinking it, but there were a couple of times where I thought that he was deliberately using his PTSD to get sympathy from the jury. I am 100% sure that wasn’t what he was doing, but that’s how it came off to me.

      • Violina23

        No more deliberate than Jeremy using his pregnant wife. It’s a risk because the jury can find it manipulative, but I don’t think that happened in either case.

  • Diego Armando

    Pander like the wind Chrissy.

  • Streets_Ahead

    Uuuuuuggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh the hero/huster/healer crap from Chrissy was brutal.

  • Marlin M.

    is this fucking real right now?

    • Diego Armando

      Padding.

      • Streets_Ahead

        It should be a paddlin’

  • Hornacek

    Chrissy bringing the theme up in her final speech. Jeff approves.

  • Marlin M.

    I want to vote too, this season off the the Island.

  • Yeah, let’s humiliate a child on live TV. That what this season needed.

  • Hornacek

    Was the guy across the aisle from Ava (not Jeff’s daughter) wearing a black sparkly jacket?

    • Scarlett3639

      Yes

  • Diego Armando

    I’m tired and want this to be over. I don’t even care if Ben or Chrissy wins.

  • NearlyNina

    Well this season sucked and the final three sucked, but Tribal was pretty good. Everyone fought like hell and it actually felt like any of them could potentially win at points.

    • Diego Armando

      Except Ryan.

    • Marlin M.

      even Ryan laughs at you.

  • Spergatory

    I feel almost privileged to witness the dawning of a new worst season of Survivor.

    The only hope to redeem this season from a narrative standpoint was a Devon win. A good, perceptive social player triumphing over a bunch of people with a bunch of mystical trinkets. But nope; Survivor isn’t a social game anymore. It’s the Magic Necklace Power Hour.

  • scrooge mcduck

    What if that little girl is the tie breaker?

  • Hornacek

    Am I crazy or did Chrissy do good at that FTC?

    • Diego Armando

      She did the best she could do.

    • She did her best and opened the door for people to vote for her.

      • Hornacek

        Apparently she had personal conversations with everyone, and the show chose not to let us know about it.

        • Diego Armando

          Why? If she wins, why didn’t they show her being happy. If not, why didn’t you at least make us care about her?

          • Hornacek

            But her edit this entire season was that she wasn’t talking to anyone. Now we know that wasn’t the case.

        • Fijian Banded Iguana

          The thing she remembered about Joe could easily have been overheard. I choose to believe her when she said she didn’t talk to So-and-so ever.

          • Hornacek

            Was she eavesdropping on every player to pick up information about them? Joe’s marriage fears, Cole’s SAT scores, etc?

          • Fijian Banded Iguana

            ACT scores. I think Cole could have done better than 34 on the SAT. (I don’t actually know how to make smileys here, so, um, smiley.) And no, certainly she didn’t overhear everything. I also didn’t say she was eavesdropping; I was thinking along the lines of hearing things discussed around the shelter. But she said herself she didn’t know a number of people, and I took her at her word.

          • Hornacek

            I didn’t know what ACT scores were since we don’t have them in Canada, so I just assumed they were SAT scores.

            The fact that Chrissy told the jury that she had conversations with all of them and could tell them what she learned from everyone – why do that if each jury member could say “I didn’t tell you that, I just said that and you overheard it?” You only make a claim to the jury that directly involves them if you know (a) they don’t know for sure if it’s true or not, or (b) they know it’s true and can’t say you’re lying.

    • NearlyNina

      She killed it. At the beginning I was completely discounting her chances, but she fought hard and made some good points. I particularly liked her I am the embodiment of all three tribes spiel.

      • Hornacek

        So I’m not the only one!

  • the sky is falling

    Can’t even watch after show, but wthe lol be back in podcast to suggest hijacking a purple rock post to discuss amazing race in offseason

  • Marlin M.

    Let’s get to the Ben win. Im excited to rank him.

  • corndogshuffle

    I want Ryan to win so I can get another fancy flair on Reddit.

  • Hornacek

    Bounce commercial with Outfield’sYiur Love. A bit of my youth just died.

  • the sky is falling

    30 minute after show, wow!

  • Hornacek

    No JP voting confessional?

  • Ryan Bilger

    My God, nobody gets shut out!

  • Diego Armando

    So Devon just pulled a Cydney?

  • Spergatory

    Even my mom, who is the most casual of casuals, says this feels like bullshit. Her exact quote “This season of Survivor, more than any of the other seasons, feels scripted.”

  • the sky is falling

    We need a good season soon or this show gonna be cancelled

  • Marlin M.

    You know when you experience a lot of trauma and your brain represses that trauma. Im going to pretend this season never happened.

  • Diego Armando

    JUST READ THE FREAKING VOTES!

    • Marlin M.

      “The winner of Survivor, Ben”

    • the sky is falling

      He is desperate to make this season something, when it is nothing

  • Hornacek

    Oh good let’s kill more time. #GetToTheVotes

  • Marlin M.

    Probts posted a picture and it was 2 heroes torches and 1 hustlers. I knew Ben was making it to FTC

  • the sky is falling

    Interesting vote

  • Marlin M.

    Im shocked!!

  • Diego Armando

    Who could have seen that coming.

  • the sky is falling

    Yawn!

  • Hornacek

    Meh.

    • the sky is falling

      It’s weird, cause I should love Ben, but just not feelin it

  • Diego Armando

    This was the closet vote they had in a while.

    • sharculese

      Weird, it’s like there was nothing particularly compelling about any of these people or something.

    • Somewhat Michele vs. Aubry

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Wasn’t Brad and Sarah pretty close?

      • Hornacek

        Wasn’t that like 7-3?

  • Ugh

  • Ryan Bilger

    Military. America. Patriotism. Woo.

    • Prom King

      I saw no patriotism or America First on display. I notice that shit because I hate that shit. All I saw was honoring people with mental health issues due to being in the military.

      There was some mention of the whole “putting your life on the line” stuff during the season – mainly from Probst – but they didn’t get into that during the finale. Which I loved, because being in the military, for me at least, is equivalent to JP being a fireman. You risk your life but there are a bunch of professions that risk their lives too.

      • Ryan Bilger

        You are absolutely correct, and I apologize for any disrespect. Being as jaded as I was with the way things went last night made me say that when I really should not have.

  • Full disclosure: I was this close to getting Ben on my fantasy league but someone snagged that configuration. I then ended up with Devin.

  • corndogshuffle

    Right choice, but I feel like this season needed a “wtf” winner to be fun in retrospect.

  • Ugh.

  • Alkanarra

    I think everyone is missing the big silver lining here:

    There’s no way Andy makes it through that podcast without yelling.

    • corndogshuffle

      I am looking forward to this podcast more than the episode itself.

    • the sky is falling

      There’s no way he makes it past 1 minute

    • gouis

      blessed be

    • purplerockandy

      Not happening. New goal is to make John yell.

      • Diego Armando

        How much gloating will you be doing exactly?

        • purplerockandy

          A decent amount. Nothing too over the top.

  • Hornacek

    The family is coming up on stage – What is happening on this reunion?

  • Diego Armando

    Ava, pull an Aubry and cross out Chrissy and write Ben to save face.

  • Marlin M.

    Im sorry, Ben does nothing for me.

  • the sky is falling

    Shortest post show ever? Only have like 20 minutes left

    • Streets_Ahead

      Worlds Apart. The episode ran into the reunion and then like 20 minuets was the Second Chance voting.

      • I didn’t watch that vote/reunion either.

      • the sky is falling

        So this one is about the same

        • Streets_Ahead

          Maybe? Probably? I’m not rewatching either one to try and find out.

  • Diego Armando

    Devon: r.obbed g.od

  • Marlin M.

    I knew Probts said this was one of the best FTC because Ben won.

  • Hornacek

    So if Devon had voted for Chrissy instead of Ryan, it would have been a tie, with Ryan breaking the tie. And it’s safe to say he’d vote for Chrissy. So Devon cost Chrissy $1million.

    • Marlin M.

      nope,I think there was 2 votes left. I think Jeff screwed up.

      • Ryan Bilger

        If I was counting right he only read 7 out of 8, and it was 4 Ben, 2 Chrissy, 1 Ryan. I assume if there was a third Chrissy vote he would have read it and left it at 3/3/1 with 1 to go, but he didn’t because the final was 5/2/1.

        • Hornacek

          Jeff said “Final vote.” It was Ben 3, chrissy 3, Ryan 1before that last vote.

          Right?

          • No, it was Ben 3, Chrissy 2, Ryan 1

          • Hornacek

            Wait – there was 8 on the jury, right?

            Don’t mess with my head.

          • That was the count I had.
            EDIT: Went back and watched it. That is what Probst said.

          • Hornacek

            Black is white. Up is down.

          • purplerockandy

            You’re not right. But if the past is any indication, we will never convince you of this.

          • Hornacek

            It’s hard to keep track when you’re watching live and posting comments at the same time. But thanks for taking the opportunity to not only correct me, but insult me at the same time. I’d expect nothing less.

      • Hornacek

        Just rewarthed. Ryan only got 1 vote.

  • Hornacek

    What’s with this pucture-in-picture thing?

  • Ike1

    Ugh, a recap of how Ben won instead of talking to the contestants? I guess they decided that the reunion is no longer much of an attraction and needs to be severely minimized. Bleh. I’d rather get some chat with Desi and/or Roark than this dumb recap.

    • the sky is falling

      Yeah, that’s what we deserve after awful season

  • Diego Armando

    Was JP the other Chrissy vote?

    • scrooge mcduck

      Since her name was encapsulated by a heart, I’m going to guess Desi.

      • Diego Armando

        But Desi spent most of her out of Game interviews trashing Chrissy.

        • I suspect that Desi’s mind changed when she read pre-game press.

  • gouis

    I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE A TIE!

    • Sorry. I will be in the Dom and Colin corner for next season

      • the sky is falling

        Yeah, purple rock sucks

      • gouis

        I WANT MY MONEY BACK

      • Maritimer

        I’m there with you

  • NearlyNina

    OMG! Really?! We’re really going to do a “this is why Ben is a good survivor” montage AFTER he’s already won? This is such a reflection on this season that they felt the need to do this…

    • I don’t mind winner montages. The Probst mansplaining can die in a ditch though.

      • NearlyNina

        Yeah, I just don’t feel like it was a typical post-winning montage. It was less look at what this player did that was awesome, and more, let me explain/justify how he won and why this season wasn’t terrible I swear.

    • Hornacek

      That montage seemed to go on forever.

      • Dezbot

        I gave up and went to bed during it. I was certain it would still be going when I got up this morning.

  • Diego Armando

    Ben – The poor man’s Mike Holloway.

    • gouis

      It’s like shitty Mike and shitty Russell had a baby.

  • This season main character was Ben. How you feel about this season depends on you see Ben. Ben probably should not have won this season with his path to the end. He was more liked then the other three.

    • StormofCuteness

      I really don’t get why people don’t like Ben. So, yeah, I agree with you…and feel oh-so-lonely.

      • Well here is my reason why: Ben himself feels that he deserves to win. And by deserve I mean that by being on the island he automatically wins the game because he is the best person there (which his last confessional before f4 was eeriely similar to a famous confessional by Rupert saying his dreams were crushed). It is Rupert symdrome except the show showed all of Ben’s flaws.

        • Prom King

          I saw nothing of what you describe. Examples? And not the last confessional before f4, because everyone who has made it that far should feel like they deserve to win, and I doubt the remaining players felt differently.

        • StormofCuteness

          Whoa, I don’t see him that way at all. But thanks for being forthcoming about your reasons.

  • Diego Armando

    The important thing is I now have a Shiny Ribombee.

  • Spergatory

    Ben did not play a great game. Ben did not even play a GOOD game. Ben played an actively terrible game that he got away with because he found a bunch of enchanted sea shells, got the luckiest and most bullshit twist of all time, and sat next to two hideously unlikable people.

    • Marlin M.

      can we be best friends?

    • the sky is falling

      Ben played the Russell Hantz game with better timing

    • Prom King

      Devon truthers gonna hate.

      • Spergatory

        The twist is garbage and I’m sorry if you want Survivor to be a garbage show, but I don’t. I don’t want to watch a show where the most important skill is magic necklace finding. I don’t want to watch a show where 39 days of skilled social politicking and relationship building loses to someone who did none of those things because at the last second, the producers changed the entire foundation of the game to favor their chosen winner. That’s not right, not fair, and most importantly of all, it’s not good TV.

        • Prom King

          I’m sorry that Devon not winning made you angry at Ben, and at Survivor.

          • Spergatory

            I’m sorry you apparently don’t give a shit about Survivor as long as your chosen favorite wins and you get to be smug about it.

          • Prom King

            ‘Tis the season for sorry’s I guess. I’d think that Ben was a great player even if he didn’t find the 3rd idol and was out at 5. Or lost the fire challenge and was out at 4. He’s great. (Well, lower mid-range great, as a winner.) Also sounds like maybe you shouldn’t watch this show? Idol finding is a key component, and they get re-buried once one is played, so you can’t ever count them out. Ben sure didn’t!

          • Spergatory

            I’ll actually admit that I was a little hot when I posted that. Ben DID play a solid game. He had his alliance, he kept them in line, and he turned on them before they could turn on him–twice! The dude was good. But there’s a reason why idols expire at 5. You’re not supposed to be able to idol your way into the endgame. You either have to win immunity or play the social game to get to the end if you’re a target like he was. He couldn’t do either. And then, this twist just seems like it fell out of the sky into his lap. Because it was a surprise to both the players and the audience, it felt cheap. It felt like they wanted him to win, so they gave him another out. Now, I don’t actually think that was the case. I don’t think this twist was specifically introduced to help Ben at all. But it did help him, and it did so by upending the rules of the game in a way that’s never been done before. It FEELS like a production cheat, and that’s bad. It’s a bad look for the show, and it’s actually a disservice to Ben, who did play a solid game! It’s not the idols themselves that are bad, it’s the idols TOGETHER with this final four twist, and it’s mostly the twist that’s really bad.

            I think Dr Mike said it best on his RHAP interview; if this twist is here to stay, idols should expire at six. There needs to be at least one round where everybody has to play Survivor!

          • Prom King

            I like a lot of what you are saying here. And I agree that it would be for the best if, in the future, idols expire at 6. There should be at least one vote in between potential idol usage and new fire challenge where everyone is unprotected except for individual immunity.

            I’ll actually admit that I was a little hot when I posted that.

            And I will admit that I was definitely smug! It’s a character flaw that I’ve been trying to work on for years, with very little success.

  • https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/369bcf5b4b46b7358f0c44cf24027a6da68c8af07ab1df156d66dfd7752d0f0b.gif
    I finally get to start using my ghost gifs. Be prepared to be terrified.

  • Purplerockmatt

    This was basically the worst possible version of the Cook Islands Yul vs Ozzy FTC showdown and once again idols won over challenge wins

  • Hornacek

    Chrissy lost her job … just like lunchlady Denise!

    What’s that?

    • Ryan Bilger

      Was thinking the exact same thing, high five!

      • Hornacek

        TYPING CAT.GIF

    • the sky is falling

      Her job sounds like a nightmare of numbers and math

      • gouis

        Gotta love that 6 figure secondary household income.

        • sharculese

          Mid-tier sailboats don’t sell themselves.

          • gouis

            “A sunfish Chrissy? What are we, BEGGARS!?!?!?”

      • Hornacek

        Careful – John will block you.

        • the sky is falling

          I will never censor my hatred of math

      • Violina23

        I’m actually considering a career switch, and I’ve been seriously considering becoming an actuary — partially because I’ve always been a science/math nerd, and partially because it doesn’t appear to require an entirely new degree (which I can’t commit to, both for $$ issues and lack of certainty). Just passing some difficult exams…. which hopefully I can find some online courses for.

        (Obviously I haven’t thought this through, but still…)

  • Hornacek

    C’mon Ryan, give us another analogy.

  • gouis

    Probst is acting like PTSD is a new thing.

  • Marlin M.

    Another Ben montage.

  • Ryan Bilger

    ALL the montages!

  • Marlin M.

    They are really trying to sell him as a good winner.

  • Come on Jeff, talk about the real issues of the season: Lauren’s ginger prejudice.

  • Marlin M.

    have they ever tried so hard to sell a winner?

    • They did not even try for Sarah and Michele whose wins should have been clarified to the casual crowd.

      • Diego Armando

        We know why Sarah won.

        He gave a halfhearted defense for Michele before immediately jumping into the Aubry winner montage.

        • I think he could have gave her a little bit more breathing room to explain her game.

  • Hornacek

    Ben said “Yes sir.” to Jeff.

  • Mike Hirsch

    *shrug*

  • Marlin M.

    Next up, they will invite Ben fans to the stage.

  • Ryan Bilger
  • Hornacek

    Ben’s hat almost fell in the fire when his fellow marines were hugging him.

  • Ike1

    Wow, not just another Ben montage but also some random out-of-nowhere Marines?!? They really don’t want to talk to the players, not even the damn jury!

  • gouis

    I’m just glad that mainstream media in this country has finally showed some respect for the military.

  • Scarlett3639

    Even the show doesn’t want to spend anymore time with these people.

  • Hornacek

    20 minutes left and Jeff has only talked to 5 (?) people so far.

    Yes, I’m one of those people that wants Jeff to talk to everyone.

  • Marlin M.

    where would you guys rank this season?

    • gouis

      meh

      • the sky is falling

        Yes I rank ot a solid meh

    • corndogshuffle

      Knee jerk reaction, around 24th. I didn’t hate it, and there are definitely worse seasons, but this one left me cold.

      • the sky is falling

        It’s 35 for me. Randy and sugar on Gabon was better than Joe, this season

        • corndogshuffle

          I definitely think

          35. Gabon
          34. Nicaragua
          33. Redemption Island
          32. One World
          31. Thailand
          30. All Stars
          29. Caramoan

          are worse. I’d have to think more on where I’d put this one in the group between 24-28 but it’s in that area. And to think I was considering it could be mid pack about a month ago…

    • Diego Armando

      It is either sixth or seventh worst for me. I don’t hate anyone on this cast, which automatically puts it above my bottom 5. I’m unsure if I should put it above or below One World. Kim is an infinitely better winner, but I despise 4 members of that cast.

      • corndogshuffle

        For whatever it’s worth (read – pretty much nothing) if two seasons are close I always pick the one with who I prefer as winner.

        • Diego Armando

          Ask me again in a month. I need some time for a decision.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Troyzan, Tarzan, Alicia and Colton?

        • Diego Armando

          Alpha Douchebag over Troy.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Mid to late 20s probably.

    • NearlyNina

      I’d definitely rank this in the bottom 5.

      – Thailand is the worst season for me. It’s one of the five I didn’t see live and I keep trying to watch it, but I can never get though it. It’s so terrible.
      – I still haven’t seen All-Stars, but I’m pretty confident I’d get more out of it than this season.
      – I haven’t re-watched Gabon since it aired but I liked Sugar, really enjoyed the take down of the Kota clique, and just the general oddballness of the cast/season so I’m pretty sure I’d rate it higher.
      – Caramoan… I also haven’t re-watched Caramoan and pretty much loathe it with a passion. But at least some interesting things happened?
      – I’ve never hated Nicaragua as much as some people, but it was a bad season. Pretty sure I’d place it below S35.
      – South Pacific was a raging dumpster fire of a season. I found it interesting, if fairly awful, for the most part. But I still rank it higher based on certain castaways/storylines.

    • Maritimer

      Somewhere around SJDS/KR I’d think so like high 20s (this is where we all fight about where SJDS goes, because John and Andy are wrong about it). Not good, but also not actively bad (like Nicaragua or WA)

  • Diego Armando

    You can’t accuse Jeff of phoning it in. He is giving his all to sell this disaster of a season.

  • Spergatory

    Anyway I can’t wait for Survivor 35. I’m really looking forward to it! It’s weird that they decided to take a season off, but I understand they might need to rest sometime. If they didn’t, they might accidentally create a season where idols are more important than literally any other aspect of the game! Where a random rock draw is actually passed off as a challenge! Where the winner played one of the worst social games I’ve ever seen and by all rights should have gone home at four if not for the single worst twist in the history of the show! I’m so glad they didn’t do that and that I didn’t waste several months watching it and vainly investing my hopes that it might get better. So, so glad.

    • Diego Armando

      I endured Thailand. This is nothing.

      • Dezbot

        Is that the season Porno Brian won?

        • Diego Armando

          Yes.

  • Yo Ho

    The musical cues in the finale, the winners montage and now the marines. It’s like production is trying to convince itself that Ben’s a good winner.

  • Marlin M.

    A lot of people on twitter mad over Ben winning.

    • Prom King

      Yeah but twitter’s for dum dums. Unless carefully curated, it’s like reading everyone’s most petty and asinine thoughts, put in the most tryhard of ways in order to make some kind of impact. It is literally the worst of human nature, on parade.

  • Marlin M.

    How many fucking montages are they going to do?

    • They normally do two or three, but they don’t do two of the winner only.

      • Marlin M.

        Its obvious they dont want to talk to these people.

    • Ike1

      Too fucking many.

    • gouis

      All montages and ads for next season. I think it’s fair given how boring these people are.

    • Hornacek

      You need a montage (montage)
      Even Rocky had a montage (montage)

  • Oh, so this was a season of secrets. Well shush, the secret is that this season sucks.

  • I have a good feeling about season 36, Survivor: Square Number

    • gouis

      Marquesas wasn’t great.

      • Streets_Ahead

        It was pretty good.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Borneo, Marquesas, Vanuatu, Micronesia, Philippines. Hey, you might be onto something! (I like Vanuatu more than most of the PRP community, although it’s still not above the median).

      • Hornacek

        Yay Vanuatu!

  • Marlin M.

    Im sorry but I even like Gabon better.

    • Diego Armando

      So do I, but I kind of like Gabon.

      • Marlin M.

        I like Bob, Ben is the winner i dislike the most personality wise ( haven’t seen Marquesas or Thailand)

        • Purplerockmatt

          Don’t worry i’m sure you will love Brian

          • Diego Armando

            Do not ger me started. I have a five minute rant on how much he sucks and I hate him in me.

          • Purplerockmatt

            “I hate him in me” that’s what she said (she being his co-stars, if you know what I mean)

        • Diego Armando

          Marquesas is fine. Avoid Thailand like the plague.

          • NearlyNina

            Thailand was one of the few seasons I didn’t see live. I’ve since tried watching it twice and can’t get past the first few episodes.

          • Diego Armando

            It gets worse. That was the mantra that went through my head during my entire viewing experience.

          • NearlyNina

            Exactly! Everyone says that and it’s already so bad, and then progressively worse just in the little bit I’ve forced myself to watch that I’ve given up. I’m better off not knowing

          • Hornacek

            ATTACK ZONE!

        • Prom King

          Thailand is uniquely fascinating and uniquely awful. Was more compelling the second time around but will never watch another time.

          Marquesas is the beginning of the sorts of big moves that are now par for the course in Survivor. Interesting if you like to trace strategy, but awesome if you watch for interesting characters.

      • Mike Hirsch

        We “kind of like Ga—-

        Yeah, I got there and couldn’t figure out how to get out without saying “Gaboners.” But we gotta stick together!

    • the sky is falling

      Randy was way more interesting than anyone on this season

  • Hornacek

    Jeff discusses secrets and doesn’t talk to Cole???

    Obviously he just doesn’t like Cole, or planned the time poorly, because that was a no-brainer.

    • Dezbot

      So we didn’t get to find out if Cole and Jessica (or whatever her name was) hooked up?

      • Hornacek

        Right. In old school Survivor, he would have been asking questions about her virginity.

  • the sky is falling

    Hi am not afraid to call this the worst season since africa

    • Streets_Ahead

      You can say that but you would be wrong. Africa is a very good season. There have been a lot worse seasons than Africa and some of them even worse than this season.

      • Diego Armando

        Africa is my pick for 5th worst season.

        • Streets_Ahead

          You have many good opinions but this isn’t one of them. There are a significant number of less entertaining season.

      • gouis

        Africa is borderline unwatchable.

        • Streets_Ahead

          I disagree. I find Africa to be very entertaining not because the strategy was especially exciting and the only real innovation was throwing the challenge to vote out Silas. And Ethan forcing the issue to vote out Brandon who was in Lex’s back pocket. But there was a lot of entertaining things in the season. Not my favorite season but there are many worse.

        • free7694

          I can’t describe any season with Big Tom Buchanan as “unwatchable.”

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            “Unintelligible” is the word you’re looking for.

          • free7694

            “Imma put this feather in mah ass…”

          • sharculese

            Big Tom really isn’t that hard to understand.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            He is when you’re hard of hearing. I have a really difficult time with thick accents.

          • sharculese

            Well, okay, that contributes.

            As a southerner who can have an accent when he wants to, I sometimes feel like the “lol, Big Tom, what is that guy even saying” jokes get overdone, but that’s a legit reason.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Texas accents I can usually understand. But when I lived in Boston…

      • EmAndScoutInBK

        Thailand is way worse

        • Streets_Ahead

          I mean obviously worse than Africa. I probably would rather re-watch it than this past season but might be recency anti-bias.

      • Prom King

        My sense is that all strategy geeks hate Survivor Africa. Probably rank most of the first ten outside of PI pretty low.

    • Marlin M.

      Africa is boring for me because I started watching around season 25 but I like Ethan a lot.

    • This was more like Gabon without the personalities or the comedy.

      • sharculese

        But the personalities in Gabon were terrible.

        • Streets_Ahead

          But more interesting/entertaining. Crystal Cox totally not rooting for her but more interesting/entertaining than pretty much anyone in this cast.

        • Hornacek

          Someone is forgetting Ace.

          • sharculese

            I’m not.

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      Thailand is worse than Africa

      • Yes. And Nicaragua is worse than them all.

  • the sky is falling

    Lol, I think JP did not say one word!

    • Mike Hirsch

      He said something at tribal. I don’t remember what it was. It was a complete sentence, at least.

  • the sky is falling

    Calling it now, new theme sucks ass

    • Marlin M.

      calling it now, game is full of advantages.

      • Bold prediction.

  • Diego Armando

    Is Ghost Island a new cast or is it Fans vs Failures?

    • the sky is falling

      We are gonna clown whole season with ghost gifts, can’t wait

      • I know right I already got about 10 ready for next season.

        • the sky is falling

          I will stock up too

      • Hornacek

        “Which player will be the Pac-Man that will gobble up the ghosts? Tune in to Survivor: Ghost Island to find out!”

  • Ryan Bilger

    New season 3spoopy5me

  • Hornacek

    A season based on previous mistakes is an interesting idea … or it would be if it was a returning player season with the people that made those actual seasons. These are all new players that had nothing to do with those mistakes.

    This sounds like Survivor: Historical Reenactments.

    • the sky is falling

      Yeah, have to say I don’t quite think the gimmick means what they think it means

      • daft

        Yeah, I’m assuming most watching felt WTF too? It seems particularly odd being the other season usually reserved for returning players, could it be a cost saving endeavour?

    • Dezbot

      Could be fun Jeff narrates like he’s on Drunk History.

      • Hornacek

        Just get him drunk for every episode.

    • Something Quirky

      Does anyone actually have any idea of what’s happening?
      Like, everyone who wins immunity has to give it to someone else? Everyone starts with 2 idols?

      • Hornacek

        Since Jeff will tell the players they’re on “Ghost Island” I assume he will explain why the season is called that. Plus there appears to be many props decorating the island (apparently all 35 torch-snuffers are hanging from the ceiling of one of the locations).

        • Ken Richardson

          That’s actually amazing. I’m fascinated by some of the props and the unique torch snuffers every season are a favorite thing of mine to watch for.

  • Marlin M.

    Worse than this season, is that now I have to study for a final tomorrow.

    • You have been the all star of this live blog.

    • Diego Armando

      Good luck.

  • Hornacek

    So at the reunion/live segments, Jeff talked to a total of 6 people? This has to be a record.

    • sharculese

      How many did he get to in Caramoan?

      • Diego Armando

        More than this.

      • Hornacek

        None of the pre-jury. They must have waited late to buy their tickets – they had terrible seats.

      • At least Cochran, Dawn, and Brenda. Probably Malcolm and maybe Andrea

    • I would not count the live segments as part of the reunion.

      • Hornacek

        Without those devon and Dr. Mike wouldn’t have been talked to.

    • Marlin M.

      This was a Ben ball washing.

      • Dezbot

        Ben tongue bath. Eww.

    • Diego Armando

      I legitimately think there may have been more commercials than content.

      • The constant commercials were driving my wife crazy.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          The worst was when they came back from a commercial break only to have Probst say that they were going straight into another commercial break and that when they got back from that they were going to show a commercial for Survivor: Ghosts vs Ghouls vs Gouis.

    • purplerockandy

      I love it. I hope next season they only talk to one person.

  • Hornacek

    Oh man, I went the whole season without using the nickname I made up at the GC finale – Survivor: Paladins vs. Clerics vs. Rogues!

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Thanks! You should try that with more things!

      • Purplerockmatt

        No mercy fam

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I know, right! People just look at me and think “Savage.”

          • Hornacek

            I thought they looked at you and thought “Lil”.

      • Hornacek

        As someone who rode the bellhop train this entire season, you’re one to talk.

  • Marlin M.

    Survivor: Healer Ben vs Heroe Ben vs Hustler Ben.

  • Diego Armando

    Seriously, how did he not talk to Joe?

    • Marlin M.

      his name is not Ben.

  • gouis

    That certainly was a season of Survivor which is now over.

    • corndogshuffle

      I’ve seen 35 seasons of Survivor and this was certainly one of them.

      • gouis

        And that reunion show! It definitely existed!

        • corndogshuffle

          I mean, at least we didn’t have a random appearance from Sia…

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        This will be my reaction when someone tells me they’re going to start watching HvHvH

        https://media.giphy.com/media/o192w0j7AzzyM/giphy.gif

  • corndogshuffle

    Well, at least the commercials for Young Sheldon look very funny.

    • sharculese

      That’s weird because the show isn’t.

      • corndogshuffle

        I have a hard time believing that Young Sheldon is not funny.

        • gouis

          Funny in like the severity of existential crises it causes?

          • corndogshuffle

            Some people really enjoy dark humor!

        • Young Sheldon is a show that exists, which like Big Bang Theory, will be fine enough to watch in syndication with your family.

        • sharculese

          I will mildly defend Chuck Lorre because he has a really great understanding of the timing and staging of multi-cam sitcom laughs, which means BBT, while not a good show, is capable of wringing out a few solid laughs per episode.

          By going single-cam it jettisons the one thing he’s good at. I’ve said it here before, but the whole thing feels very much like someone looked at the success of Fresh of the Boat and The Goldbergs, and said “can we have that, but with an established property because the CBS audience hates change.”

        • free7694

          I liked Young Sheldon better when it was on 20 years ago and called “Smart Guy.”

          • Purple Rock Emma

            This is what I’ve been saying!

          • free7694

            Finally someone who knows what I’m talking about!

  • Marlin M.

    Funny story- I was not watching this season live until the merge, and I started that because I wanted to participate in the conversation here. so Fuck PRP for making me endure this season live.

    • Ryan Bilger

      At the start of the semester I was cursing myself for taking a Wednesday night class. Let’s just say that opinion changed by the end as I caught up on the season.

    • corndogshuffle

      Or you could say “God bless Survivor HHH for introducing me to PRP!”

      Actually, I see your point.

      • purplerockandy

        No, fuck PRP. That’s the new shirt.

    • Was this your first season with us? Oh, bless your heart.

      • Marlin M.

        I have listened to the podcast for about two years now and I check in once in a while the comments here ,but I decided to jump in this season.

        • There’s always the offseason?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Tocantins!

          • NearlyNina

            I just rewatched Tocantins for Gamechangers, so I’ prefer something else, although I do have have some thoughts to share, so I’m sure I’d join in if it was!

            The season I really want is All-stars since it’s the only one I’ve yet to see.

        • gouis

          Welcome newbie! One of the mythical “listeners who don’t comment”. I was just assuming John was making that up to feel better about himself.

        • sharculese

          So you’re the person who listens but doesn’t comment that Andy is always telling us about.

        • Diego Armando

          Glad to have you. What you lack in seniority you made up for in volume.

    • Fair.

    • Purplerockmatt

      awww we love you too

  • corndogshuffle

    For those who care about this sort of thing, UNC is about to lose to Wofford in basketball…

    • StormofCuteness

      Whoa, that’s awesome! I love it when this stuff happens early in the season.

  • gouis

    Calling it now: all three of John’s “hustling, healing, and hero-ing’ moments will be Devon agreeing to make the fire.

  • You guys, I tweeted *a lot*.

    • Mike Hirsch

      And some of them were successful!

      • Eh, nothing about tweeting translates as success.

    • sharculese

      I’m sorry John, but there’s no way to phrase that and not sound like a toddler pointing at a full toilet bowl and saying “look what I did!”

      • No, that’s exactly what I was going for.

  • Marlin M.

    Lmao I saw this tweet and it made me laugh:

    Who is ready for the fire challenge with the added features that Ben is given a lighter and Devon is submerged in a tank of water. #SurvivorFinale

  • Mike Hirsch

    “Where’s your Messiah now?”
    — Me, to Edgic-ers who picked Chrissy

    • Purplerockmatt

      That is honestly the best part of the season

    • Oh shit, I almost forgot! I may have to go to Reddit tomorrow just to troll on their turf.

      • sharculese

        If you wait until tomorrow they’ll have started to rationalize it.

        • Yeah, but I’m tired so… ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

      • gouis

        They’re all saying it’s rigged and going full tilt. Some pro-Chrissy and some pro-Devon but they are INCENSED

    • sharculese

      Remember how this season constantly showed Chrissy doing stuff and people talking about how she was the biggest threat to win?

      Oh, wait, no that was Ben? BOOM FLAWLESS EDGIC VICTORY

    • purplerockandy

      I love that a season that featured, several times, people saying “if Ben gets to the end, he wins” still managed to fool some Edgicers.

      They really need to double check that math sometimes.

  • I feel like this season is just a lose-lose for about everyone. Chrissy fans are going to be upset with her edit as well as her loss while Ben fans are going to have to deal with the rigging accusations. Devon fans are left with what might have been and Ryan fans are tumbleweeds on the wind.

    • Marlin M.

      Mike fans are upset the best player did not win.

      • Which was?

        • Marlin M.

          Mike

          • No. No way.

          • Marlin M.

            Oh wait, Mike is the only one upset since he played the best game.

          • There you go!

          • I… What? What is happening right now?

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Well done taking the time to set up that punchline.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Wait. There were fans of these contestants? I was just watching out of obligation.

      • Yeah, there were fans. I guess I should say someone with rooting interest or something along those lines.

        • Streets_Ahead

          Even that seems like a stretch. I thought Ben would win so I was in favor of that. I thought Chrissy winning would make a lot of people mad so I liked that.

          But I really never felt like I was rooting for anything.

      • Hornacek

        Do you have @SNPalsy:disqus blocked? How have you missed his pro-bellboy comments all season?

    • Crappy

      All the rigged stuff is non sense. Was Cook Islands rigged for Yul too when production sprung F3 out of no where? Because it is highly likely that Ozzy wins the last challenge too and votes out Yul to win the vote over Becky (And please no she would have won over Ozzy argument)

      • I think the rigging discussion with Cook Islands happens earlier in the season with the message in the bottle. I also think that Ozzy wins against Becky, but she scrapes a couple of votes.

        • Crappy

          More than rigging, i guess was speaking towards this final twist being unfair. It was unfair, but survivor has never been about fairness. You can find many examples of the same.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        There is definitely a segment of the Survivor fandom that says Cook Islands was rigged.

        • Crappy

          People think it was rigged against the Caucasian majority alliance not against Ozzy who was part of the “minority” alliance in more than one way.

      • Max_Jets

        That’s…not an uncommon theory.

        • Crappy

          I think production would have wanted Ozzy to win, he was and is much more popular with casual fans than Yul. They just wanted to try the F3 and Yul/Ozzy turning out to be super close vote, validated it in their opinion.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    Also, should be known:

    Current setting of my home: my wife is doing romantic things, like looking up places to go for a honeymoon and flights. I am commenting on purple rock.

    • Streets_Ahead

      Which survivor location will your honeymoon be at? Talk about romantic!

      • Hornacek

        “Honey, let’s go to Exile Island!”

    • Props to Em’s wife for being a team player and letting you focus on what’s truly important.

    • StormofCuteness

      So sweet! My husband made banana bread with chocolate chips for the finale. Married life is grand!

  • Taako From Teevhii

    So after all that, I don’t think this season was that bad. I give it a C+, and the same grade to Ben as a winner. Not fantastic, but passing.

    • Marlin M.

      one day you will see the light.

    • Diego Armando

      That sounds fair. The best part was when I caught a shiny Ribombee during Jeff’s introduction.

  • Taako From Teevhii

    Also, speculation from family I was watching with: Since Ben was wearing that bandage on his shoulder for forever, was that due to an injury? Or is one of his tattoos something that can’t be shown on network TV? This was an intriguing question to me, but I don’t care enough to look up early photos of him, so…

    • John Deere logo according to a Survivor facebook page.

      • sharculese

        They’ll just do that? I’ve always wondered about my K Records tattoo but I figured the answer would be “we don’t know what that is and nobody who watches Survivor cares.”

        • CBS has been doing that lately. A Big Brother HG had Boyz 2 Men lyrics tattooed on his arm and they had a bandaid over part of it for his entire stay.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I wonder what would happened if Boston Rob was ever back on one of their shows (like CBB for example). I am also sad that I wouldn’t be able to wear a White Sox cap if I made it onto Survivor.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Why would you want every other player to hate you?

          • Taako From Teevhii

            There are legitimate Yankees fans on this site, and I’m the one you want to come after?

          • I was going to bring up the Yankees.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Take a lesson from @Hornacek:disqus. Some things are best left unsaid.

          • Hornacek

            What did I do this time? I specifically stay out of the sports discussions because, well, it’s sports.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            They know that what they do is wrong.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Wait, are you a Stros fan?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I like the Spacemen and I’m so happy they won, but my baseball fandom is quite the opposite of my Survivor fandom. In Survivor I like the villains. In baseball I root for the heroes. Red Sox Nation.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I am very confused then why you’d have beef with the White Sox. In the future, when Moncada and Kopech carry us to a championship, I might get it. And I hate to break it to you, but the Red Sox are not the heroes in this baseball story.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You have your baseball story, I have mine.

            And I have beef with almost every American league team.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            This is fair.

          • Blurry Denzel

            I would never wear a Yankee hat on Survivor. I don’t need to give people reasons to vote me out. There are already plenty of reasons they can pick from.

          • sharculese

            You mean like because you’re a Hannah stan?

          • Blurry Denzel

            I wouldn’t share that either. Though I may also have a panic attack.

          • sharculese

            I mean, someone in a Georgia cap already won, so I’m fine with that.

          • Lucky.

          • sharculese

            It was a camo hat tho, the bro-iest of all hats.

          • Still counts.

          • Has there ever been a Mizzou (?) hat even on the show?

          • What? What? Do you not know where I went to school?

          • sharculese

            Was it McGill?

          • What the hell is McGill?

          • sharculese

            It’s the Harvard of Canada.

          • Oh I have heard of it, but not because I went there.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That is the saddest thing. I hope they have that on their brochures.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Everyone knows it as “Nancy”.

          • free7694

            You might know it as Goodman.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Do you know how creepy that would be if John knew where we all went to school?

          • Yeah, but mine is in my Twitter bio.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Oh yeah. Salem University.

          • sharculese

            I’ve mentioned it twice in the last two weeks, so if John cares about me, then he knows.

            Granted, John does keep forgetting my birthday…

          • Wait, you have?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            We all have birthdays, Barbara.

          • sharculese

            Yes. One of them was in this thread. And you responded to it.

          • Did you go to McGill?

          • sharculese

            The other school I mentioned.

          • Oh…duh.

          • sharculese

            Did you really go to Salem, tho, or was that a Barbara is a witch joke?

            Because roommate went to Salem, although I’m pretty sure you’re younger than us.

          • No, I didn’t. That was definitely a “Barbara is a witch” joke.

          • No…

            *Moves PRPcommenterdossiers.docx to recycle bin

          • sharculese

            We can tell this is a lie because we all know if it was real it would be a .xls.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            The docx is the decoy, the dummy file. He can delete it without losing anything.

          • Somewhere in the Midwest? Where there’s farms?

          • Damn. You zeroed in on that. It’s like you knew I was originally an ag major or something.

          • purplerockandy

            Each time Rob was on, they cleared the hat with MLB.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I guess you have to do that with the owners too. And considering what happened with Reinsdorf and Chance, no way that gets cleared. Womp womp.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Wow. That tattoo artist should be fired.

          • sharculese

            If it was the tattoo artist’s job to tell you you’ve made a poor decision then every tattoo parlor in America would be out of business.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Some will try to talk you out of a bad decision. Some won’t do certain tats. There are some that just don’t want you walking around with something stupid on your skin that represents their business.

          • sharculese

            I would say that I’ve never thought of telling someone where I got one of my tattoos, but then I remembered that I did exactly that yesterday.

            But that was because we were talking about tribute tattoos we both had and since I got mine in Athens I knew he would know the shop.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I know a few artists from over the years and I feel like most of them will try to stop you from getting something dumb. Most won’t let you get nazi shit. Only one of those that I’ve asked has ever said that if the customer has the money, he’ll do the work.

          • sharculese

            Is it the guy who gave Kyle Jason the anus tattoo?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That’s honestly my second favorite tattoo of all time.

          • sharculese

            What’s your favorite?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            The stomach tattoo of the cat walking away from you. The one that successfully incorporates the bellybutton.

          • sharculese

            Guh.

    • sharculese

      The length this thread spreads out for while only being barely related to Survivor says volumes about this season.

  • Ryan Bilger

    Now that it is time for the airing of grievances, I want to bring up something extremely petty.

    Remember how they made the merge tribe name “Solewa” (dumb mashup as usual) and painted each of the two letter blocks on their flag in the three tribe colors? On that flag, they have So in blue, le in yellow, and wa in red. Yet, Soko was the yellow tribe and Levu was the blue tribe! These people can’t even match colors correctly!

    End rant.

    • StormofCuteness

      I love petty. Not in real life, but definitely here.

    • Hornacek

      Survivor: Color Blindness

  • Marlin M.

    lmao

    To learn more about Rigging go to https://t.co/jxrJjoxcyO #Survivor #SurvivorFinale— SassyBrownGuy (@asassybrownguy) December 21, 2017

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

    • I appreciate that sentiment, but I don’t like it on that tweet.

      • Marlin M.

        all the replies to that tweet are basically saying the same thing.

  • You wanna know how much I didn’t like this season?
    I am rewatching Cambodia for the third time starting tomorrow.
    2016 me: I think I am good with only watching Cambodia twice
    2017 me: Bring it on. I need some decent Survivor back in my life. I haven’t had it since the summer when I watched Tocantins.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Tocantins!

      • I really enjoyed Tocantins.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Because you are an intelligent fan with excellent taste!

    • What the fuck? You don’t like Cambodia. And you haven’t seen all the seasons!

      • Where have you been?

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          He’s been off having his Devon time.

          • Ryan Bilger

            I eagerly await the moment of silence on the podcast for the extinguishing of the bright, beautiful light.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You do know that @purplerockandy:disqus will also be on that podcast, right?

          • Ryan Bilger

            I suppose I should have said the attempt at a moment of silence that will be filled instead by Andy definitely not yelling

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            He will just be rationally discussing at the top of his lungs. He may be so reserved that I will have to put this podcast on subtitles just to know what he’s saying.

      • corndogshuffle

        Last I heard she hadn’t seen Palau!

        • sharculese

          Did someone say Paul?

          • corndogshuffle

            This is a Survivor podcast, not Big Brother.

        • Blurry Denzel

          She will soon and for once that isn’t wishful thinking on my part.

    • By The Numbers

      I’m super excited because I’m about to start Pearl Islands for the first time to erase this season from my memory

      • First 15 minutes of that season are still the best of any premiere Survivor has ever had.

        • Kemper Boyd

          It’s the best premiere. It just is.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        One of my favorite players is on that season! Enjoy!

        • Dubious Rob

          I knew there had to be another Ryan Shoulders fan out there!

        • Hornacek

          Who’s the bellhop on that season?

      • Prom King

        It’s the best season, I hope you like it!

      • Kemper Boyd

        Violina just watched for first time and now I’m pumped for a rewatch. You on twitter? I’d love to follow your thoughts. It’s a great and fun season.

        • By The Numbers

          I try to avoid te time black hole that Twitter would be, sorry!

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Australian Survivor is standing right there….

  • Marlin M.

    I feel like in the productions quest to make Ben the winner and be like”What an awesome winner”, they made the rigging so blatant that now most people dont like Ben as the winner. The exact opposite of what they wanted.

    • sharculese

      I checked Survivor Facebook, the lowest common denominator of Survivor comments, so you do have to and the results were:

      50% this is fixed
      25% Yay Ben
      25% I hate Chrissy
      and one dude who said Devon was robbed

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        and one dude who said Devon was robbed

        John goes to Survivor Facebook?

        • Dammit, I posted under a fake name and everything!

          • sharculese

            Unfortunately, your fake name was John Fakename.

            But it’s pronounced “fahkenahmee”.

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    So… tomorrow the fantasy league results are posted, right? I wonder how everybody did.

    • Blurry Denzel

      No one cares since Final Boss Emma didn’t win Outcast. In all seriousness, congrats.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        I love how everyone actually was rooting for the final boss by the end.

    • Diego Armando

      Congrats. I don’t think I cracked top 4. Getting to the finale with an intact team better be good enough to get me an Outcast League Spot.

      • StormofCuteness

        Dang, even with 2 out of 3 of the final and 4 of 4 still intact going into the episode? Wow, I’m shocked if you didn’t make the cut.

  • Dubious Rob

    Well, Ben is a bottom-tier winner for me. His game was pretty similar to Mike Holloway’s, in that they were both public enemy #1 for a long time, but Mike won immunities while Ben found idols. Sure, it’s admirable to fight all the way to the end with your back against the wall, but it’s less admirable if it’s your own fault your back is up against the wall.

    • Ryan Bilger

      I’m gonna push back on that a little bit here as I’ve been thinking about it more. Please call me out if my memory is wrong, but didn’t Ben get his back put against the wall originally at final 7 because people wanted to get him out due to his story and the perception that he was unbeatable before a jury, rather than anything he actually did in the game? I guess he could have pulled a Tony or a Gary and lied about his background, but he doesn’t seem the type to do so.

      • Dubious Rob

        I think there’s a lot more Ben could have done to manage his threat level. Joe’s “King Arthur” label wouldn’t have hit so hard if Ben weren’t steamrolling his 7-member alliance into voting his way. Ben set himself up for a fall and he could have done more to mitigate that.

        • Ryan Bilger

          Very good point, I suppose that’s a good “root cause” as opposed to the “proximal cause” of his story.

      • sharculese

        Part of what makes this season unsatisfying is that we never got an explanation as to why Ben was supposed to be such a jury threat. It certainly wasn’t because of his social game.

        The answer is probably that they willed it into existence, but that’s a really shitty answer.

        • Prom King

          The explanation was in the first episode: he’s a hero marine who has had to perform under pressure. Later underlined by PTSD scenes. It’s only logical that people would think he’s a jury threat because he’s a hero marine with a family, with PTSD, who clearly performed really well under pressure. Also the season was far from unsatisfying.

          • sharculese

            Then the show should at least have had the decency to hammer us over the head with that. As much as people like to talk about how having a compelling backstory makes you a jury threat, it’s never worked before, it’s something you say when you’re casting around for a reason to vote someone out. The show did nothing to set up that these people were really buying into it and it was going to work.

          • Prom King

            I really thought the show did hammer us over the head with that, just short of giving a bullet point list. Having Ben talk about being a marine and having ptsd multiple times at tribals, to other players, and in confessionals a hammer to the head, to me.

          • Fijian Banded Iguana

            Also, aren’t all the contestants supposed to pass a psychiatric inventory? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

          • Kingoftonga

            Supposedly. The played up the “we have a psychiatrist on set!” thing a lot in the early seasons, but I’ve don’t recall seeing anything about it in the last 10-15 seasons. And they let Brandon Hantz appear on this show twice.

        • Maritimer

          I think that’s it and its part of what annoys me. These people CREATED “Ben the jury threat” and then let him keep finding idols (whatever your opinion on that, they should have tried to stop it) and get to the Finals

          • Hornacek

            So Ben is like Frankenstein’s monster and the rest of the players are collectively Dr. Frankenstein.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I feel like both of those seasons were saved from being a total loss because of those winners. I hate seeing someone futility scratch and claw for a chance to stay in the game only to just not have it matter. I don’t like Pagongings either. I at least want to see people have a chance.

      • Dubious Rob

        Agreed, although it’s a lot more satisfying to see Yul or Danni or even Chris fight back from an underdog position, when they’re in that position just by being on the wrong side of the numbers. Ben had lots of chances to turn his game around, and seeing a poor social player save himself with idol after idol just became tiresome to watch after a while.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I see your point, and I see it with Mike’s immunity run as well. But is a Ben/Mike win worse than a Mama C/Chrissy win? I didn’t think that Chrissy even had a chance until FTC. Chrissy/Ryan/Mike would have been the worst FTC since… when?

          • Dubious Rob

            Yeah, Chrissy/Ryan/Mike is a terrible final 3, almost on par with Bob/Sugar/Susie or Sash/Chase/Fabio. Chrissy/Ryan/Devon would have been fine, though. And man, Chrissy performed WAY better in front of the jury than I expected.

            A Carolyn/Will/Rodney final 3 would have been awful, but I’d have been fine with Carolyn winning, since she actually made some strategic moves (although she probably would have lost to Rodney, barf).

            But I see your point as well. If someone has to win a mediocre-to-bad season, it may as well be the person who annoyed all the annoying people the most. Seeing Mike spite a bunch of unlikable players week after week was the only thing that got me through Worlds Apart.

    • Max_Jets

      Mike influenced the vote. He got Will and Tyler to flip their votes at final 8, he got Sierra and Carolyn to vote with him to get out Tyler at final 7, he voted with Carolyn to get out Dan at final 6, and was the swing that sent Sierra packing at final 5. Ben had zero allies from final 7 on and couldn’t even get back up plans to go his way. Comparing Ben and Mike is a disservice to Mike.

      • Hornacek

        Some of those were when Mike had immunity or had an immunity idol that everyone knew about. It’s easier to influence a vote when everyone knows that you’re immune.

        Sort of like last week when Chrissy had immunity and told her alliance “I’ll make my decision when I get to tribal.” Because she figured “Hell, even if it doesn’t work, I won’t be going home.”

  • free7694

    Oh look, a bottom 10 finale to crown a bottom 10 winner of a bottom 10 season. I was actively bored watching that.

  • By The Numbers

    Now that this season has officially ended on such a low note, I wanna say that this was my first season at PRP, and the commentariat here was 99.9% of my enjoyment during the season. A great group of Survivor fans

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      99.9%! And that’s how we do it… By The Numbers!!!

      Seriously, the commentariat is the reason to come here. Great people, great fans. Welcome aboard!

    • StormofCuteness

      PRP makes every season better for me too (though I liked this one way more than most).

    • Kemper Boyd

      The commetariat here has become my friends. I went to NY to Live KIA but it was mainly to hang with the NY PRPers.

      • Hornacek

        I regretted that I wasn’t able to go to the Live KIA this season in NY. Hoping to be able to go to the next one and meet the PRPers.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I’m planning to go back not the spring season but next fall season.

        • Blurry Denzel

          You should. Really going to push for me people to come either in the spring, fall or both. The first PRP meet up was a big success.

    • gouis

      Another mythical “man on the street”. Welcome!

    • Maritimer

      Honestly, wanting to comment and participate on PRP is the main reason I kept up this season

    • Fijian Banded Iguana

      I’m nobody in particular, but damn glad to be here!

  • Dubious Rob

    I feel like Jeff’s spiel about Ben’s PTSD was a way of telling future applicants that they need to be willing to capitalize on their personal struggles and traumas for the sake of good television. I know that’s par for reality shows, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think there’s a fine line between genuinely wanting to spread awareness of (cancer/anxiety/PTSD/MRKH/whatever) and turning a very real and serious issue into your own strategy for getting cast or getting votes or getting airtime. For what it’s worth, I think most past players have walked that line just fine, but I can imagine a future season where every player is competing to have the most heart-wrenching sob story, and I’m not here for that.

    I also didn’t care for Jeff referencing Zeke’s outing. They don’t get to use that as an example of how “important” the show is. CBS did right by Zeke (according to Zeke), but now they need to leave it alone.

    • Prom King

      I see where you are coming from regarding Zeke, it was fucking painful for a lot of people to watch. And almost anything that pops out of Probst’s mouth is something I automatically question. But the thing is, it was important. Survivor plays to middle America, mostly. Having an awesome character like Zeke also be a trans character, one who was supported by a rainbow coalition of diverse players during his outing, is a way to educate the dumbasses. Trans issues are big now and visibility is a good thing, and an important thing.

      Of course I say all this but whenever I’ve mentioned any of this to any trans friends, their reactions are always along the lines of “Survivor’s still on? And you actually watch it?”

    • Alkanarra

      I’m with you, man. There is a common theme of servicemen and woman returning home and only being viewed for their military skills, both by others (jobs in particular) and even by themselves. CBS enabled that perspective and it’s uncomfortable, though I suppose Ben himself is proud of his background and made a cool mil off of it, so hopefully it was for the best for him.

      I don’t have that background and could easily, easily be talking out of my ass here, but if I were a service person who had come home and wanted to integrate back into society, that edit seemed almost like a fuck you to anyone who thinks that they’ll be able to move beyond the label and build a new life for themselves. Almost like “this is who you are to us, this is all you’ll ever amount to, so either play it up or get lost.”

      Again, it could be I don’t not know what I’m talking about and I shouldn’t be speaking on behalf of a group I don’t represent, but this bothers me just as much as every slimy politicians who tries to push some unconnected political agenda by claiming “it’s for the troops”.

      • Prom King

        I think you are right about that being a common theme for many service people, but how could the Survivor avoid it with Ben on the show? Survivor encourages its players to talk about their lives and how their lives impact how and why they play the game. Should they just not have cast a former marine with PTSD?

        • Alkanarra

          My feeling is that by cherry picking him to win, he only won because he was a marine; they used his background to pander to the audience by giving them a winner they thought the audience would like based entirely on his military background. The implication here is that Ben offered them no value other than his military service, which is a struggle for a lot of returning vets to think society won’t let them be anything else. (Obviously this all hinges on how much you believe the show actively worked to ensure he received those idols and whether you felt the twist was implemented to keep him in the game.)

          I’ll totally give you that Ben himself was obviously comfortable with that being part of his story and identity and I don’t fault Survivor for showing it either; no problem casting him, no problem letting him share his story. I *do* fault them for fudging things to ensure the vet won so they could pander to the audience.

          Or, to put it another way: if Ben weren’t a vet, they wouldn’t have lifted a finger to help him. They boiled him down to his career and while it ultimately helped him, it felt exploitative and further reinforced the idea that the only thing service people have to offer – the ultimate summation of their identity – is their past.

          Again, though, not my background and I shouldn’t be speaking for a group I don’t represent. Just… bothered me on a personal level.

          • Prom King

            Okay that makes sense. I guess what we are actually disagreeing about then is whether or not production rigged the game in Ben’s favor.

          • Alkanarra

            Oh of course; it’s all predicated on that. I know you enjoyed the finale and I’m sure *if* things weren’t so fishy then yeah, I can see it. To me it was just waaaaaay too convenient, especially Chrissy’s “advantage”. That was kinda the straw that broke the camel’s back. We’ll never know for sure though.

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    Who could come back from this cast? Surely they bring back Joe. Mike despite his bad play? Why bring back Devon when they have Jay from MvGX? I doubt Chrissy. Lauren’s humor is too dry. I don’t see a lot of returnees from this season, which is probably for the best.

    • Dubious Rob

      Honestly, their best shot at successful returnees probably come from pre-jury boots. Ali, maybe Jessica. Patrick if they need a douchebro, or a token ginger.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Is token ginger a thing on Survivor?

        • Dubious Rob

          No, but it should be.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Always great to see a heinous day one sunburn.

    • Blurry Denzel

      I don’t need Mike again. There are many Mike types out there, some who might actually be decent at Survivor. I believe Ali and Jessica can come back.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Honestly, I can see both Chrissy and Ryan coming back.

        • Blurry Denzel

          Maybe, I can see them getting a bit lost in the shuffle with Survivor going with other choices from those archetypes.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I can see Ryan having a problem, but Chrissy won 4 immunities and is undeniably a presence on tv. I could see her coming back as a much more sane Debbie Wanner type.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Even though you said much more sane, I still think that was insulting to Chrissy just bringing up Debbie. I think Chrissy was very fascinating. I’m not sure where the show stands.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            And she obviously played a much better game than we all thought she did judging by the FTC. But her edit didn’t do her any favors. It made sure to show that she was wrong about everything and painted it in a negative light. If she comes back they’ll play that up even more, just like they do with everyone (except Tyson 3.0) other returnee’s personality. Case in point: Stephanie in Guatamala. They forced a story for her that wasn’t real.

          • Kemper Boyd

            She played the better game of the season but the season was filled with bad play. But we saw over and over her failure to manage the social aspect of alliances.

          • Prom King

            I wish I had heard your perspective more on Chrissy this season! Fantastic character.

          • NearlyNina

            Yeah, I was thinking more Carolyn. But basically fit, older, non-maternal female castaway. Which Debbie fits into as well just with crazy character added in as well.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            This is more along the lines of what I was trying to say.

          • I would take Chrissy over Carolyn.

          • The only benefit Carolyn has is that production loves worlds apart and they appear to be lukewarm over hvhvh.

          • They’re right to be underwhelmed by how this cast played out on TV. I would just argue that Carolyn didn’t play any better (as a TV character).

          • Blurry Denzel

            I would easily pick Chrissy over Carolyn as a TV character. Whether Chrissy played well or not (she didn’t) or was likable, I believe she was good TV. I waa invested in her and her story. I was not too invested in Carolyn.

          • NearlyNina

            Blasphemy!
            Now you’re just trying to wind me up…

          • Carolyn was wet blanket garbage. Come at me, bro.

        • Prom King

          Ryan was so boring though. But I guess he fills a type, in case David can’t make it.

        • Diego Armando

          Why not cast Carolyn if you want a Chrissy? They are the same archetype and have similar personalities, but Carolyn was actually competent.

    • NearlyNina

      I feel like a lot of the cast could come back actually. The cast reminds me of SJDS or Worlds Apart in that sense, where maybe there aren’t that many huge standouts, but there’s a lot of 2nd tier to work with.
      – Chrissy, Joe, Ryan, and Devon I could see coming back.
      – Lauren and Cole could be long shot possibilities.
      – Ashley, Ali, and Jessica have a high chance of being slotted in as the obligatory young attractive woman.
      I don’t see Mike coming back though.

    • By The Numbers

      A few of the pre merge boots this season seem likely to come back. Many of them, like Ali, Roark, and Jessica didn’t really do anything wrong so much as circumstance left them screwed.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        If production felt like Roark was a player worth bringing back for whatever reason; wouldn’t they have given us a reason to want her to come back? The vast majority of Survivor watchers didn’t even know who she was.

        • Diego Armando

          To be fair, there was no reason to show Roark. Her tribe never lost, she was separated from all of her tribe mates and voted off early.

      • Prom King

        I would love it if all three of them came back too. I wasn’t thinking about pre-merge, but as long as I am, I’m going to throw in Patrick too. Patrick return! Return, Patrick!

    • Prom King

      I hope not Joe. I’m not into him.

      I feel like I got enough Ben and Chrissy for now. I’d like to see Lauren and Devon return. Never Mike.

    • Harvey Dent

      Alan if he wants to could definitely come back

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        He would be the first big four athlete to play twice, right? But I don’t see him coming back. I think the show did what they could with most of these folk and we’re done.

    • gouis

      Joe and MAYBE Ali

    • Purplerockmatt

      Devon is definitely on their list for coming back and they will always think “hey why not another young hot guy” just like they aren’t shy about doubling up on young attractive ladies

    • Maritimer

      I’d say nobody is a Tier 1 returnee. Joe and Devon are probably Tier II. Ali for a Second Chance season likely. That’s probably it.

    • Diego Armando

      Joe, Devon, Ali, Jessica, Alan. That’s about it.

    • Hornacek

      The question is … who of this cast could be the next Kelley Wentworth? Someone who didn’t do much in their first season, but has the potential to come back and improve greatly in their second appearance?

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Ali

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      I agree nobody’s a Tier 1 returnee. Joe for sure (although I’m not looking forward to it). Ali and to a lesser extent Jessica got a ton of focus for pre-merge boots, maybe to set up return appearances. Lauren because she ticks some hard-to-tick boxes. Devon in a Second Chance season only. I doubt Chrissy wants to do it again.

  • Side Character

    So, this season wasn’t that great (we haven’t had two below-average seasons in one year since Redemption Island and South Pacific…unless you have much lower opinions of certain seasons). Everyone made terrible decisions, whether it was vote splitting, not going after people blatantly searching for idols, fucking up with idols, awful social games (which apparently weren’t awful, just shown as such)…everyone has spoken their piece about these things, and have said them better than I ever could. Which is why I didn’t really post here that much this season.
    Off-topic, but Jeff saying ‘one vote left’ when there were actually two votes left…Jeez, not even the host can do math properly.

    Thank you to everyone for being themselves and yelling when necessary at this season (which was virtually all the time). Even during the worst of seasons, you guys make this show worth watching.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      You know what? Maybe JP was the reason for all of those math errors.

      • NearlyNina

        Hahahaha omg!

    • daft

      The newbie season after an experienced season always feels less engaging, hence the silly secret motif, strangely not everyone who applies is a super-polymath-fan, their stuff ups can be just as engaging.

  • Harvey Dent

    I’ve basically defended this season to some people all season but god the finale just fell apart. I don’t hate Ben but three straight idol plays and a brand new twist to save his ass was just exhausting as hell. Ugh. At least we got Australian Survivor Season 2 this year.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Where there’s a Hallowill, there’s a Halloway.

      • Harvey Dent

        at least Mike won 5 immunities to Ben’s…well zero

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          True. And Ben found three idols. I know that Mike won at least one. Was it more?

          • Diego Armando

            1, but Idols weren’t rehidden that season.

  • Prom King

    I think I’ll comment before reading other comments and the liveblog, both of which will probably bring me back down to earth.

    I thought it was a fantastic finale, just gripping and fun and surprising, all the good things.

    – Great editing too, especially with the final four 4 challenge montage of block falls; smash cut from Ryan and Chrissy being wrong to Ben laughing; eerie music playing during the first monologue from Chrissy at final tribal when she starts talking about how she knows something personal about each and every juror; Ben, Chrissy, jury rapid fire Ryan pile-on about Ryan doing nothing at camp, etc.

    – Lead-up to Devon vs. Ben at fire was a lot of fun. A very chill Lancelot versus King Arthur. Poor Devon should have been a little less chill and maybe practiced a bit more? Funny to think that all of those highlighted moments of Devon meditating in the sun was sneaky foreshadowing to Devon being just a little too chill before his last challenge. But I guess people thought that all those Zen Jesus shots were hints that he would be the winner… LOL shadenfreude feels great.

    – I loved the jury & final three back-and-forth in the new format. Haters gonna hate but that was great. Just made a rhyme there too.

    – I like that Probst didn’t stop with Cirie as far as interviewing final five vote-outs live on stage goes, because that Devon interview was delightful. Sweet guy.

    – Chrissy was at her best, but then she’s been one of the best characters this season. Challenge queen. Mean attempt at clowning Ben – and failing LOL. Villains are at their most entertaining when they try something dastardly but don’t get away with it. Impressive jury performance. I especially enjoyed her last passive-aggressive stab when, after Ben’s genuinely moving comments, she tried to mom guilt trip the jury into voting for her. Definitely one of my favorite villains, probably up there with Heidik, Fairplay, Chris Daugherty.

    – I’ve loved Ben since episode one (and pegged him as winner, but so did a lot of people) and the finale was him all over, minus the negative parts we’ve seen in past episodes. That surprise reunion with his marine brothers was moving and I cried a lot in a little time, probably because of the many relatives I have in the military. He was just fantastic this episode, and a fantastic character in general. He’s probably in my top 20-25 of the series’ characters. Such a well-rounded character who always entertained me, even when he frustrated me, and especially when he blew things up.

    Looking forward to Andy popping a blood vessel on the podcast! (Just kidding, please don’t and please stay well, Andy.) Will he be able to admit that all the respect and props that the jury gave Chrissy (and of course her votes from Mike and Ashley) means that he let his bias get in the way of truly appreciating her? My magic 8-ball says no.

    I’d probably rank this season high-middle. Interesting but often unexciting pre-merge, bonkers post-merge with many high moments. It helps a lot that my winner pick actually won. As far as recent seasons go, below Cambodia and MvG but above WA, How Wrong, and defintely GC.

    Now on to read liveblog and comments. I hope people aren’t too disgusted or pissed because that would be a downer. I think I will pour myself a whiskey first, just in case. And then cheers to Ben and Chrissy! And to a good B/B- season. And to a lot of fun and smart posts from all the awesome PRP commenters and moderators, the best Survivor site, above all others. Oh and a cheer to all the Devon truthers too for making me smile so much LOL!

    • Do we know that Mike voted for Chrissy?

      • Prom King

        I just got it from Wikipedia, which has been wrong before, so honestly I’m not positive. I’m actually sorta surprised it was Mike not JP.

      • StormofCuteness

        I thought it was JP.

        • That was who I assumed. Survivor Wiki just has the three televised votes still.

          EDIT: I wouldn’t be shocked if Desi voted that way as well.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          JP’s vote was the forgotten vote.

      • Crappy

        He confirmed it in the rhap interview

    • StormofCuteness

      I’m giddy about the show as well and Ben’s win. Yay!

  • StormofCuteness

    I was right!!!! I picked Ben in episode 1, and by god, for the first time on PRP, I picked the winner! Woo Hoo! Tra-la, tra-la.

    Also, I only had two players left in my team, Ben and Ryan…*smug*

    I’m not a sore loser, but I am a horrible winner. (You know, if winning is maybe making Top 50 and being right.)

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Luckily, in the Outcasts League, you will forever be represented by a very respectful and humble winner.

      • StormofCuteness

        If you remember, I believed you would win all season…even when I glared. 💜

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          You did! And I wish I could say that you were my favorite person to beat, but I love all of my losers equally!

          • StormofCuteness

            Ugh.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Final Boss Emma would’ve been a much more gracious winner.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            That’s kind and inaccurate of you to say.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        It should be noted that I still have not conceded this race.

        • Hornacek

          Do you have a horse named Sassy?

  • itsafuckingSTICK

    I’m ready for my close-up; see you next season!

    • StormofCuteness

      😂😂😂

    • free7694

      Real talk, if Jason Siska’s fucking stick is an *actual* immunity idol next season, it validates the entire concept.

      • itsafuckingSTICK

        Do you think they kept it? I like to imagine somebody held on to it for giggles but, at the same time, it /is/ just a stick with a face on it.

  • purplerockandy
    • Purplerockmatt

      I love trolling Andy

  • Max_Jets

    Mike saying that Ben is one of the greatest Survivor players of all time makes me angrier than in BBCAN5 when Bruno said that Kevin is the greatest player in Big Brother

  • Max_Jets

    I love hidden immunity idols, but there really is no good reason to put an idol back at final 5. It was BS in MvGX and it’s BS here. San Juan Del Sur is the only time a final 5 idol play has been interesting and it’s unlikely to happen often. Idols are about timing and reading when to play them. That’s why they work! There is no skill in deciding to play an idol at final 5, and it sure as shit isn’t interesting. At least Devon pulled off a nice move in response.

    Advantagegeddon, the double tribal, and Ben (who I GENUINELY REALLY LIKED) winning the way he did are truly a shit trio of backwards Survivor events but it seems that’s the way the show is moving if Jeff and the producers don’t stop it.

  • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

    Hey purple rock pod! I’ve got some free time for the holidays and got a bit of an idea from next seasons preview. I was wondering if I could do a guest post ranking all 35 torch snuffers?

    • Kemper Boyd

      This sounds like a terrible and pointless list. I fully endorse and would read it.

    • sharculese

      The trick is to just go ahead and write it and send it to them. They don’t object to free content because it means less work for them.

    • What @sharculese:disqus said. We do sometimes take a pass on stuff, but only if we’ve got other plans at that time.

      • sharculese

        We joke about the laziness, but let’s be honest, having a community that’s engaged enough to put work into sharing their thoughts helps make this place great.

      • SurvivorWerewolf(JTHelland)

        Awesome! any kind of special formatting or anything like that or can I just send it as a word document?

        • You can do it in Google docs, in a word doc, or just pasted into an email.

  • daft

    I knew they should have went with Survivor: Afro Caribbean, Caucasian, Asian & Latino. 😉 Five of each, one island and million dollars at stake, that’s America! 😀 If you are going to get excited about social causes latterly producers, go for the one issue that’s defined America since year dot. 🙂 OK, I might be being more than a little facetious here, CBS wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole knowing the furore it would invariably cause, but after watching so many season where the black guy or girl ends up being sent home in the inevitable schoolyard pick at the start – you don’t look like us – it would be interesting to see a new dynamic at work other than two young, white surfer dudes coasting through after doing very little socially other than flirting. And yes, it would be funny to see how the white players react to being outnumbered and having to check their privilege. 😀

    • Kemper Boyd

      You mean Cook Islands?

      • daft

        Yeah, I missed a few seasons back when. Clearly, it didn’t create as much controversy as I would have imagined, apart from sponsors mysteriously leaving – it wasn’t because of the content. 😀

        • Kemper Boyd

          It was a big deal online and is the reason I gave Survivor a chance

          • daft

            After thinking about it, I vaguely remember watching that season, too many seasons merge into one in the memory. I wasn’t really following the show online at the time in a different country, so a lot of the controversy wouldn’t have permeated my consciousness anyway. The actual season as it panned out mustn’t of been too controversial otherwise I’d imagine it would have stuck in the memory. I don’t generally re-watch seasons, but I’ll have to DL that particular one out of curiosity. 🙂

          • Diego Armando

            It is awesome. Easily a top 5.

          • Kemper Boyd

            It’s a good season but a lot of red shirts

          • sharculese

            It was controversial enough that a couple of the big sponsors dropped their support for the show. But then they did a swap at 16 and the racial aspect disappeared, except also it kind of didn’t because all the white people swapped onto one tribe.

          • Purplerockmatt

            no they didnt. Penner and Flicka and Candice were on a different tribe, but then two of them defected after voting out the other

          • sharculese

            Right. I forgot there was an intermediate step in the process because my brain blanks out the mutiny twist.

          • daft

            LOL! Thanks for the background. 🙂

  • Hornacek

    CORRECTION: in comments last night I said that the final vote was Ben 4, Chrissy 3, Ryan 1 and that all the votes were read. I just rewatched the votes this morning and now I see that it’s actually Ben 3, Chrissy 2, Ryan 1 with one vote not revealed (obviously for Ben), so it’s a 4/2/1 result. Sorry about that.

    In my defense, at the 7th vote Jeff says “Final vote.” (before looking at the vote) when there are actually 2 votes left. So I assumed 7 votes had already been read and that it was tied between Ben and Chrissy at that point. Why would Jeff say that? He didn’t need to read the 8th vote, but by saying that, for those few seconds, he gave away the winner.

    People, watching live and writing comments *and* doing math all at the same time is hard!

    • Purplerockmatt

      5-2-1 there were 8 votes

      • Hornacek

        Thanks – that’s what I get for writing on the bus.

  • Head Architect Sylvia

    This has probably been discussed but is it likely that Jeff didn’t talk to anyone on the jury because he was worried there may have been backlash from some of them about the fire making twist? I feel like the jury may have been entertained watching it all unfold in real time, but I feel like a lot of them may not have been too impressed as fans when they watched the broadcast on TV.

    Although even if anyone on the jury was critical of the twist, I doubt they’re going to say anything in case it hurts their chances of returning. It’ll be interesting to read post season interviews from the jury, I guess.

    • Alkanarra

      They *absolutely* avoided the jury for a reason and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was it; maybe they got wind that the jury hated the twist and were afraid it would be brought up. Alternatively, they might see the reunion as a ratings joke and so they’re trying to bleed the show into it more so that people stick around. Either way, it was hella deliberate.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Chrissy and Devon were both good sportsmanships in the moment and at the reunion, but I would not be surprised at all if they (even Devon) were super-pissed at some point in the past seven months.

        • Prom King

          They are only humanitarians, so that would be understandable.

        • Head Architect Sylvia

          I couldn’t properly gauge how Devon felt about all of it – at the reunion and on the show. He seemed mostly positive but it all felt a bit put on like he was doing his best to bottle up all of his other emotions. He looked super out of it at FTC on the jury like he was still processing it and I wondered if his vote was sort of a vote against Ben and Chrissy because he was pissed off at them as they were the two who sealed his fate in the game. He may have initially blamed himself for failing the fire making challenge but I’m sure it didn’t take him too long to realise that the twist was incredibly unfair and that he should have been in the final three.

          I just hate how someone without immunity AND on the wrong side of the numbers can stay in the game at such a crucial stage! It’s ridiculous.

          Comparing it to another bad twist (Aus Survivor spoilers)
          The twist which saved Annaliese and Tara on Aus Survivor. They were also on the wrong side of the numbers and I didn’t love that they were allowed to stay in the game and simply switch tribes, BUT it happened half way through the game, not at the end, so they still had to try and survive many more tribal councils after that one. It’s not like they were given free passes to the end game.

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        It’ll be interesting to find out more! If we ever do. There were probably a lot of snarky/speculative comments from the jury re: the fire making twist AND the idol finds. More than one person on the jury probably at least speculated that the show may have been rigged to favour Ben.

        Yeah, true, that may have been a factor too, I’m sure a lot of people typically turn off as soon as the winner is announced.

  • Kemper Boyd

    Thought. Remember when everyone was saying Lauren and Ashley were wrong to target Ben at 8? They weren’. What happens if Ben goes instead of Joe? I think joe stays with the 5 they get Chrissy. Then when Joe and Mike about think about getting Ryan either Devon scoops him.up or Lauren plays her vote.

    • gouis

      I agree. As soon as you decide “X has to go” you just need to do it then. This is the #1 lesson from Tony but everyone still insists on “you can do that later”

      • Kemper Boyd

        With lauren’s extra vote they still had control of the game.

        • prettyboyprobst

          Not if Joe and Mike flip (as Joe said post-game they were planning to do – if we should believe him, is another question).

          • Kemper Boyd

            Would they if Lauren makes it clear she would use her extra vote do they risk rocks? Do Chrissy and Ryan?

          • Blurry Denzel

            If she uses it, not a guarantee.

          • Hornacek

            Guarantee void in Tennessee.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Doesn’t matter if and who would budge, it’s still a worse situation than riding your existing and functionable alliance for one or two more votes (not to mention the concocted double agent plan, that was still in effect and a measure to give everyone who was in on it extra jury points, while simultaneously damaging everyone’s game who was not in a serious way).

    • Blurry Denzel

      Maybe Joe and Mike stay, maybe they don’t, either way you give them control. You don’t have the power you once did. I don’t think the mistake was not getting rid of Ben at 8, the mistake was letting him find out you were trying to get rid of him at all.

    • Harvey Dent

      It’s still probably Ryan/Devon/Chrissy at the end of the game regardless. Devon knew what he was doing and that was his best chance

      • Kemper Boyd

        But no one loses to Ben

        • Harvey Dent

          Devon might have a chance

    • Purplerockmatt

      Or maybe if they just stayed allied to Ben he doesn’t feel like he has to look for idols 24/7 or maybe other people on the island don’t think he is such a threat at the end because he hasn’t been public enemy number 1 for 5 straight votes. I do agree that once you agree that someone has to go, they should go, but they turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy

      • prettyboyprobst

        This. If not for Ashley’s need to make a big splash and Lauren being worried they might not get another chance to vote Ben out (she did have a point, in retrospect), he probably wouldn’t have been on edge as much and invested more time in social bonds instead of idol searches, which always involve a risk to one’s social standing.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Also an option.

  • Spergatory

    Man, this was a hell of a season to join the Survivor fandom. I actually… don’t want to talk about this season anymore. I don’t want to hear about it. I don’t want to listen to podcasts about it. I don’t want to hear to a deep dive into the winner’s game, because I know the winner’s game; he found three idols, lost final immunity, and had a twist thrown in his lap. I don’t want to hear any more debates about idols and advantages. Last night made it clear; they are now the most important things in the game. You shouldn’t even bother talking to the other competitors anymore; just spend your whole time looking for idols and/or practicing fire making, and you too can win Survivor over people who are actually smart and socially aware and play well!

    God, Ben’s win doesn’t even have the base-level satisfaction of a Holloway-esque immunity run. Even clutching out that final immunity challenge would’ve allowed me to feel okay about him as a winner. But having idols fall from the sky into your lap, losing final immunity, and then benefiting from a last-minute twist that means you literally cannot be voted out in contradiction to every other season of the show and every other day of that season… no. Ben is not a good winner. Ben is, as far as I’m concerned, a new low for Survivor winners. He’s sub-Crowley, sub-Fabio. Even Chrissy– FUCKING CHRISSY– would’ve been a better winner than Ben.

    • Kemper Boyd

      So. What’s your fav season and who is your fav winner?

      • Dezbot

        Tie between Pearl Islands and Second Chances, fave winner being Goddess Sandra <3

        • Oh dear. Oh dear.

          • Dezbot

            You’d think Leslie Knope would be nicer to a sleepy cat.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Ok Dezbot. You can say even if BJ will tell you Cambodia sucks balls

    • Maritimer

      Yeah, the precedent taken from this season is get back from TC and run around looking for the idol, find it, and fuck the social game. That said, it helps that neither Chrissy or Ryan had a social game. If Ben plays the exact same game, but the other contestants play around him a little better and we end up with Lauren or Devon in the finals, I think he loses by playing this way. But eventually with idols, you get a lot of control over who goes home, because vote splitting gets hard with small numbers. I don’t know if its an imitable game. Last person who played this way got humiliated at back-to-back FTCs.

      By FTC I was torn between my need to be right (Chrissy losing) and my desire to not see Ben win. It was a tough go. I’m with you he’s an unsatisfying winner.

      • Harvey Dent

        It being down to Chrissy/Ryan in the finals was part of Devon’s plan. If it were up to Ben, Chrissy would have been gone earlier from what we saw. This was Devon’s making and Ben gets the rewards because of bullshit twists.

        • Maritimer

          Yeah, but I think dumping Chrissy was the right call there for Ben if she didn’t win immunity. He beats Dr. Mike at FTC and he has a better shot at Final Immunity.

          I agree though, under the old rules, Devon played the right game. He dumps Ben at 4 and cleans up FTC. He couldn’t see that coming and it straight up sucks

          • Harvey Dent

            This whole thing basically would have buried the last two seasons, too. Brad 100% picks Troyzan, and then Tai probably beats Sarah in a firemaking challenge. In MvGX, Ken takes Hannah and David probably beats Adam in a firemaking challenge. Granted, David would have been a way better winner than Ben or Sarah (Brad or Tai eh), but it still completely obliterates the end games the winners were playing.

          • Maritimer

            Let’s keep working it backwards:
            KR: Michele probably saves Tai so it changes nothing
            Cambodia: Jeremy saves Tasha, we get Spencer v Kelley. Maybe changes outcome if Wentworth wins
            WA: Mike protects Will I think. Nothing changes
            SJDS: Jac protects Nat. Keith beats Missy at fire and maybe wins. Worse.
            Cagayan: In a F3 world, Kass saves Woo, we get a Tony-Spencer fire showdown for who wins the season.
            BvW: Tyson saves Gervase. Tina maybe makes the finale and wins through RI AND this twist and it really sucks
            Caramoan: Eddie wins fire over whoever and maybe wins the season. Much worse.
            Philippines: Malcolm v Denise at fire for winner of the season.
            OW: Doesn’t matter. Kim wins. Not looking up who won final immunity
            SoPa: Ozzy has a really good chance at winning fire and the season. Far worse.
            RI: Ashley v Natalie in a fire showdown and if Ashley wins she maybe beats Rob. Worse.
            Nicaragua: Does Holly win if she beats Chase at fire? Don’t know, don’t care
            HvV: Parv v Jerri for fire I think (Russell was soooo sure he beats Sandra). Not sure if Jerri making FTC changes much other than the margin (Colby votes Jerri)
            Samoa: If Brett beats whoever at fire, he wins
            Tocantins: F2
            Gabon: Exactly what happened, happens.
            Micro: F2
            Fiji: Yau v Earl for fire and the season
            CI: Exact same thing happens(?) unless idol gets shifted back to 5, then Yul destroys Becky at fire and still wins.

            I’m depressed at how many times here the fire would decide the season winner

          • Max_Jets

            “HvV: Parv v Jerri for fire I think (Russell was soooo sure he beats Sandra). Not sure if Jerri making FTC changes much other than the margin (Colby votes Jerri)”
            I think Russell takes Parv and Sandra likely loses. I’m a big critic of Sandra’s HvV game, but that’s just sad.

          • Maritimer

            I really wasn’t sure on that one. I think there’s a decent chance he takes Parv too, then I think you’re right. Jerri beats Sandra at fire and likely wins the season.

          • Blurry Denzel

            “And if Ashley wins she maybe beats Rob”

            Queen Underwood will finally get the title. Also, the last time we would ever see the twist.

          • Yeah, that honestly might’ve made it a one-and-done twist.

          • Maritimer

            Oh yeah, that twist would have gone in the hopper and they would have fired the person who suggested it

          • Harvey Dent

            There’s a pretty good chance Rob would tell Philip he believes in him to win a firemaking duel and Philip would go for it since he worshipped the dude.

          • sharculese

            Worlds Apart should be excluded since Mike actively forced a firemaking duel.

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, I just listed it for completions sake. Absolutely nothing would have changed.

          • Luckily for you, Kim won FIC. I think if Wentworth won fire, we may have had our first FIC tie.

          • Maritimer

            Jeremy-Wentworth would have been a FTC to behold

          • That’s a dream FTC right there.

      • Taako From Teevhii

        I’ve been seeing the argument that “If the players knew about the F4 change, they could have changed their plans accordingly” a lot, and I don’t think I agree with it. In this particular season, everyone on the island was gunning for Ben as early as F7, which is exactly when he started his string of three idols. Ben was an integral part of almost everyone’s numbers before that, so they wouldn’t have turned on him before that. Really, I think Ben ends up at F4 even if they know about the rule change.

        With that said, there’s a potential that broad strategy shifts in future seasons, when everyone will presumably know about the change. But even then, I’m assuming that idols can still be played up to F5, so yeah, Ben might have set a precedent here. But I would underscore what you’re saying about how if Ben is sitting next to better opponents, they probably win. (and if he isn’t, then FTC would have been three goats, and Ben would’ve been the better winner anyways)

        • Maritimer

          I agree. This particular season, knowing about the F4 change doesn’t change how the contestants would have played, at least in regards to Ben, and nothing changes unfortunately. Could have though. I’ll be interested how players strategize around it in the future.

          Idolling your way to FTC isn’t the be all end all. Ben won because he managed to bring goats, and still almost lost to one. Idol away and you can still be a 0 vote finalist

          • Max_Jets

            “Ben won because he managed to bring goats”
            Well, he sat next to goats. I don’t know that he did any of the bringing.

          • Maritimer

            You’re definitely right. Even with all his idols, he only successfully eliminated one of his targets in the late game (Lauren). Bad word choice by me

          • Max_Jets

            It also kind of has the Ozzy South Pacific problem of people voting for him despite him doing nothing to put them on the jury. Weirdly, though, the only votes against him were the people he wasn’t responsible for eliminating. Perhaps they were most upset about the way Ben would because it helped derailed their games and maybe they thought they were more deserving of being there?

          • Maritimer

            Yeah, I imagine there is some truth to that. These people didn’t want to lose to Ben and would be embarrassed to lose to him in the way they did. This goes on the theory that jurors vote for people they can stomach losing to. But I also think there was just personal animosity there among the people who were in the game longer.

    • Alycia Swift

      “God, Ben’s win doesn’t even have the base-level satisfaction of a Holloway-esque immunity run.”

      Especially since Mike won out and got out of the game the Axis of Evil.

      • Dezbot

        I hate Ben both for making me remember Mike and making Mike look like a saint in comparison. And for making me briefly root for the Devil herself, Chrissy, to win that final immunity.

  • Head Architect Sylvia

    I’ve read most of the comments and I know the twist has already been discussed a lot. I agree with the sentiment that it was terrible because it’s labelled as an advantage and Chrissy earned it fairly as a reward for winning an immunity challenge, and yet in reality it was just a huge advantage for Ben and it completely undermined her powerful position and her shot at winning. All of this has already been said.

    The main problem I have with it is that she clearly HAD to play it. I would 100% be OK with it as an advantage if she had the choice to not play it – then it would have actually been an advantage. I don’t remember the precedent for most advantages, but I feel like a lot of the steal a vote/extra vote/immunity when X people advantages were all optional, right? Why is this one different? I don’t think it was explicitly made clear but you can just tell Chrissy had no choice with this one, whether it was what the producers told her or whether it was actually written on the parchment. It’s definitely not fair that they can just make up the guidelines regarding playing/not playing advantages to suit their narrative.

    The producers etc. know what they’re doing and Jeff said the twist is coming back next season, so I have to assume it’s written on the parchment that the person has to play it, but if it didn’t it would have been amusing to see Chrissy get up at tribal and declare that it’s a disadvantage to her game and toss it in the fire. Although if that happened I feel like Jeff probably would have just cut the cameras and yelled at her until she relented and played it.

    • He would have pulled it out of the fire like the shell.

    • Alycia Swift

      You said it better than me. I do note that the cast did not know about this change – which seems more like a rule change that they should have been told about from the beginning – more than just random extra idols being inserted which they all should suspect. Weren’t they told a about the change last season with voting up front?

      You had a good point about if she was given a choice about whether to play it or not, she would have retained power.

      The extra idol at the raft I hated but more because the arrow pointing to it was just so dang big, it was in an obvious place and because the idol was barely buried. Make them dig and worry about being caught.

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        I wonder if they weren’t told about it in the beginning because it was a twist they weren’t even sure they were going to implement but then decided to throw it in when they realised Ben couldn’t win without it. I hate to be this skeptical but everything that happened was just a bit too suspicious. And yeah, it’s totally a rule change if it’s going to happen again next time. You’re right, in GC they were told about the voting rule change straight up and that also related to the final four and a fire making challenge.

        Ugh now that you mention the raft idol, it is really quite strange that the idol went from being in a somewhat challenging location under the shelter to a super obvious place, and like you said, beneath about 2 inches of sand. They absolutely have to do a better job hiding idols in more challenging and original places next season.

        • Alycia Swift

          I remember one season where Cirie had to swim back and forth to get idol clues.

          • Head Architect Sylvia

            I remember that! Micronesia I think – she was stuck with Kathy on exile trying to find it for a while. More like that please!

            Also I just realised with the theme for next season it’s highly possible that idols/advantages will be SUPER easy to attain once again. Fingers crossed I guess.

    • prettyboyprobst

      I really don’t like the fire challenge twist, but the show did state that Chrissy’s advantage only consisted of the information advantage that comes with being the only one to know that the twist is coming. It’s an advantage, but a rather weak one. Which is fine, considering it was just a throw-in to the immunity challenge anyway.

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        Hmm that’s right! I completely forgot about the whole “you get information” bit which framed it all pretty clearly. How aggravating it must have been for Chrissy reading it the first time.

        • prettyboyprobst

          Someone here wondered how many takes it took until they had a shot suitable for a family friendly program of Chrissy telling Devon about this – which made me laugh.
          Chrissy’s eyes definitely popped a bit when she arrived at that part of the advantage description and they cut away shortly after, iirc.

          • Head Architect Sylvia

            Aha I remember reading that comment too. Poor Devon. It breaks my heart it went down that way.

        • Hornacek

          When she’s reading it the first time she says “Oh!” and then it cuts to a confessional which obviously took place much later. It wouldn’t surprise me if, after she said “Oh!” there were some expletives and comments about how this was not a good twist.

          • Head Architect Sylvia

            Does it really? How did I miss this too. I sort of want to rewatch the scene now but at the same time I don’t really want to because I’ll just get angry again.

            I bet that happened. I would kill for more bonus footage each week because I’d love to see Chrissy going off.

    • Hornacek

      The way Chrissy’s advantage note was written, her actual advantage was knowing that this change was happening. It was not described to her that she would have this as an opportunity or an option. The scroll specifically said “Your advantage is ‘information’.”

      • Head Architect Sylvia

        Oh true, now I remember – it was quite carefully worded wasn’t it. I guess I zoned out for a bit.

  • Mike Hirsch

    According to Wikipedia, the two Chrissy votes were Ashley, and…Mike?

    No, that makes about as much sense as the rest of Mike’s game. I mean, why get rational now?

    • Hornacek

      At this time, Survivor Wiki still doesn’t show who voted for whom except for the 3 we saw on the show.

    • Hornacek

      In the RHAP exit interviews, we find out that Ashley and Dr. Mike voted for Chrissy.

  • Maritimer

    Ugh, okay here goes:

    1) Devon. I was so glad someone managed to make a smart decision in this game when he voted for Dr. Mike at 5. Gotta make the move that saves your skin and that’s the kind of ballsy move that gets you credit at FTC if you get there. That’s the bright beautiful light that we all know and love and will probably never get to see again

    2) Twist. Fuck. I wasn’t sure how I felt about it before, I was leaning towards liking it but now i fucking hate it. Is it because it cost my favourite player the game? Maybe. Probably. But I don’t fucking care, if I hadn’t been so sure that was coming I would have been furious. We’ll see how I feel about it next season when it saves the person I was rooting for.

    3) Still love the new FTC format.

    4) Ben = Mike Holloway in my winner rankings, probably slots in right behind him.

    5) I really felt that this episode shot the ambiguous edit they had going, by being so Ben-centric. I felt sure he was winning, even as they started to cast a little bit of doubt it might be Chrissy.

    6) Devon didn’t quite make Jay levels of crush for me but he was getting close by the end of this episode

    That’s it. Not all that much to say. Kind of excited to see what they do with the mistakes thing but also incredibly worried its just going to turn into Big Brother.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      Do you feel like Devon won’t be back? With this finale on top of what we saw in the regular season, I would think that Devon is a candidate for the next Second Chances season. Outside of that though, yeah, it’s hard to see him being asked back.

      • Maritimer

        I think he’s one of the most likely from this cast but I can also see this cast becoming the next Guatemala. And he’s second to Jay for his archetype I’d think (not to say they wouldn’t cast both on the same season. Or that I would object to that)

        • Taako From Teevhii

          If we can have Joe and Woo on a season together, we can definitely get Jay and Devon.

          • Maritimer

            Hell, I’d be up for Survivor: Malcolm v Jay v Devon

          • Alycia Swift

            Malcolm’s more of the golden boy type (though he’s not as good at challenges). The problem with this is there aren’t enough female equivalents. Hali, I think.

          • Maritimer

            Hali’s a good female equivalent. Actually, Ashley too. But I was more proposing a one-returnee per tribe season that occurs in Probst’s dreams

          • Survivor: I’ll Be in My Bunk

        • He’s definitely second to Jay. Jay is superior in nearly every way.

          • Max_Jets

            I think Devon is the better player, but Jay is better television.

          • Crappy

            I get why you think that, I think Devon is probably better strategic player than Jay but I think Jay is naturally much more charming than Devon and that can carry you far in survivor.

      • Alycia Swift

        Of that archetype (the happy-go lucky surfer bro), he and Jay are the most likely to be recast and if it were a vote-in one, both would likely make it. Woo already did it. Taylor won’t be recast as he’s too unlikable (and b/c of what happened earlier). Cole (although a rock-climber instead of a surfer) was a doofus (though strangely good at FTC). Maybe Ken although I’m not sure he is that archetype even though he surfs.

        As far as the rest of the cast, Chrissy, Ben and possibly Joe, maybe Jessica and/or Ali.

      • Diego Armando

        I think Devon could return if they are unable to get Jay.

  • Alycia Swift

    This seems to be the season showing that social games really are not that important and only finding idols is.

    Who other than perhaps Devon (and we never really saw what others thought of him) had a good social game anywhere on this cast? Apparently, we were not shown Chrissy’s but it seemed to have been there by what we saw at FTC. Yes, there are mostly pre-jury women saying she did not speak with them — but again, they all gunned for her and it goes both ways.

    I hate the automatic fire-making challenge. It takes power away from the person who wins final immunity and gives usually the producer’s favorite an extra chance.

    I think this season is one of the bottom for me. I found it a chore to watch and often did not watch it before the next week. In fact, I started the show last night around 10 p.m. just because.

    The one thing I will say is that the challenges were more interesting. I am not one who hates puzzles because it levels out the playing field and gives the non-athletic a chance.

    The highlight (and still highlight) was meeting and getting to know some NY/NJ fellow PRPers.

    • This just hit me. No wonder why probst loves Ben: he’s the anti-Michele in every single way.

      • Blurry Denzel

        I mean you can stop at Ben is an alpha male and be right, but, yeah, that too.

      • Diego Armando

        Ben: He tried.

    • Alycia Swift

      I meant to say “just because” I decided I wanted to do more Xmas shopping which actually could have waited another night.

      My brain is toast today for some reason.

    • Maritimer

      On social game: Mike seemed pretty well liked. I think Ashley had an alright social game. Everybody seemed to like JP but that’s probably because he didn’t talk. And I think Desi was voted out because of fear of her good social game (it was a long time ago and is kind of hazy)

      • Alycia Swift

        And we only saw Mike’s, which, although well-liked, was up and down. Ben made fun of JP early on. We saw nothing from Desi – she might have been feared but the reasoning came out of nowhere on the show. The social games on the show itself – Ben, Ryan to some extent, Joe, Chrissy to some extent, Cole, Lauren, were not good.

    • Hornacek

      It’s like Chrissy deliberately played a bad social game with players she knew were getting voted out pre-jury, and post-jury she made sure to play a great (?) social game with everyone (although we weren’t shown it). I mean, who would have guessed that Chrissy and Joe had an actual conversation that got so in depth that he revealed to her the personal reasons why he hasn’t gotten married yet.

  • Diego Armando

    I’m going to proclaim that that was the worst Reunion Episode ever. At least people got talked to on Caramoan.

    • Alycia Swift

      I’m not so sure. One of the weirdest though.

      • Diego Armando

        Which one was worse?

        • Alycia Swift

          Worlds Apart was pretty bad. Phillipines b/c half the cast was in the audience (do I have the right season?

          • Purplerockmatt

            that is caramoan

          • Diego Armando

            We at least got Probst destroying Dan and some exciting Cambodia announcements at Worlds Apart. Caramoan is closer, but at least it had some content.

    • Hornacek

      If you don’t count Jeff talking to Dr. Mike and Devon during the actual show in the live segments, he only talked to 4 people at the reunion.

    • Harvey Dent

      We didn’t even get the “SO RYAN, DID YOU GET A DATE YET?” terrible awkward question we would have gotten in the past

      • Maritimer

        That one I’m calling a win

      • Hornacek

        Or “So Jessica, are you still a virgin?”

        • I was just thinking about that today. We avoided awkward probst in that regard.

      • prettyboyprobst

        Rob asked him exactly that question in his exit interview, and it went as well as you would imagine. At least it wasn’t on TV.

  • Scarlett3639

    Is it me, or did it seem like no one actually enjoyed playing Survivor this season? Except maybe Joe or Mike, it seems like everyone was treating it like a job. Even when they had a happy/enjoyable moment it was mostly glee in screwing over another contestant than sheer enjoyment of playing Survivor.

    • Maritimer

      Devon I think was having fun. Cole maybe too. Desi, Jessica, Ali. Just most of the late gamers were real serious

    • I don’t like Ben but I think he was enjoying his time out there

    • Purplerockmatt

      Ben was enjoying his time out there. He definitely though got most of his enjoyment from blowing up Chrissy’s plans

    • Blurry Denzel

      I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I can get pretty intense in competitive situations. I think if I was on Survivor, you would see me super frustrated, excited about getting one over others and really hungry. But there is no doubt that it my mind that I would love every aspect of playing Survivor. I love the game so much. Will ii translate on camera is the question.

      • Alycia Swift

        You should apply.

        • Blurry Denzel

          Oh, I don’t have aspirations of actually going but if I woke up and was suddenly playing, that’s how I believe I would react. I’ll stick to games that are similar to Survivor but can be played indoors on a couch.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            “Games that are similar to Survivor but can be played indoors on a couch” are games that I can no longer get people to play with me.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Move to Brooklyn

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I want to own a house someday, I can’t have put off eating avocados for nothing.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Move to Jersey but close enough to Brooklyn

          • Alycia Swift

            Agreed. I play those games.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            Ew.

          • Alycia Swift

            Sometimes I agree with that.

          • Blurry Denzel

            Fair answer

          • sharculese

            Move to Atlanta. It’s not that much more expensive than Nashville.

      • By The Numbers

        I think that’s part of what made BvW such a great season

    • Alycia Swift

      I was treating watching like a job so it translated.

    • Prom King

      Ben and Chrissy got personal, but they were also enjoying themselves a lot. Especially Ben at tribal and Ben Double Agent; especially Chrissy at challenges and Chrissy congratulating herself on her alliances. They may have thought it was a job, but it was a job they loved.

      • Max_Jets

        Chrissy is damn near constantly smiling! Even when she’s upset, she’s smiling.

        • Prom King

          It’s cause she loves life!

          I’d also say that Devon was enjoying himself a lot.

  • Diego Armando

    I just looked at the ruins of the AV Club and a concensus seems to be that Chrissy was robbed. That is bullshit. Chrissy played a lousy game of Survivor and deserved to lose.

    Devon was the one who was robbed. He had the path to the final 3 locked up and made the best move of the episode by voting for Mike, but he was eliminated by the gimmick. I believe he would have cleaned up in the Finals and gotten at least 5 votes (Desi, Ashley, Lauren, Ben, Joe).

    • Alycia Swift

      I like Devon but he when he stopped practicing, and became so over-confident that he did not need to because the flint broke, he was going home.

      • Max_Jets

        Was he over-confident? He said he wanted to save his energy, which seems dumb but if he won we would be all “I guess he made the right call in saving his energy!”

        • Alycia Swift

          I think he was over-confident. He would have found energy whether he “saved” it or not.

        • Dezbot

          I thought he was more nervous about it than anything. Probably saw breaking the flint as a bad sign and decided to chill himself out so he’d go into tribal calm.

          Not that it worked [sniffle]!

        • Prom King

          That’s a big if! Not only did he not win, he wasn’t remotely close.

      • purplerockandy

        I’m not sure you can make a lot of fire with a broken flint.

        (I literally don’t know. Don’t @ me)

        • prettyboyprobst

          It’s probably very different from doing it with an intact flint, so not the best preparation. Then again, I don’t know if he would get another flint if he broke his in the challenge, so there could still be some value in practicing with a broken flint.

          In the end I tend to agree with Dezbot, in that he was probably more nervous than anything to do with a lack preparation.

        • Alycia Swift

          I don’t know that either but that wasn’t the point. Did we see him try?

    • Max_Jets

      He got eliminated because of his fatal flaw – being better than Ryan at fire making. Chrissy made the smart call, but it kinda pisses me off that it’s a feature of that twist.

      • Diego Armando

        I 100% would have made the same move as Chrissy, but it still sucks.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Counterpoint:
      1. They ALL played a lousy game of Survivor and deserved to lose.
      2. Chrissy’s surprisingly strong FTC performance and Devon’s jitteriness as a juror suggests that Chrissy just might have beaten him if there was no twist, but of course this is speculation.
      3. This part is not speculation: Devon sucked at fire-making.

      Disclaimer: This in no way constitutes stanning for Chrissy (see #1).

      • Max_Jets

        “3. This part is not speculation: Devon sucked at fire-making.”
        I mean, probably, but do we even know how long Ben took to start his fire? He might have crushed it! We’ve seen some abysmal fire making showings before.

        • I haven’t watched the episode yet (I did watch the reunion) but they didn’t show a time lapse? That’s shady.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Spoiler tag out of an abundance of caution: Yup, no time lapse, and once Ben got the kindling lit, his sticks burned like they were doused in gasoline. Meanwhile, Devon couldn’t even get his kindling lit.

          • Hornacek

            More production interference! Ben’s kindling was soaked in kerosene!

        • prettyboyprobst

          We also saw Devon make fire at camp in no time at all earlier in the episode.

      • purplerockandy

        #2: Ben sucking at final tribal didn’t help Chrissy. Not sure why you think Devon (possibly) doing the same would help.

    • Crappy

      As much as we all want to speculate, there is no 100% way of knowing who would win over Chrissy and Devon. Chrissy’s poor social game edit this season was driven by the fact that she was a FTC loser. To clarify, I do think she sucks at social game but it was amplified in the edit. Devon seems very likeable but there is no way of knowing that jury respected or saw his strategic game.

      • Purplerockmatt

        in Devon’s Ponderosa when he arrives everyone is in love with the dude. I think they didn’t like Ben, didn’t like chrissy, actually liked Devon. I think Devon was winning

        • Crappy

          I sorta agree, if I had to guess I would also pick Devon winning over chrissy and Ryan. But I don’t think we can 100% shut out Chrissy fans from claiming that she could have won. Heck, Ryan claimed in RHAP interview that Ben and joe told him that they would have voted for him in the case. This is the problem with trying to second guess 6 months after live action, you can claim anything using small pieces of evidence.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Ben said it would have been between Ryan and Devon, so I think we have to take Ryan’s claim with a grain of salt.

    • Maritimer

      Watching the Ponderosa video, I would say he for sure gets Cole too. I think Devon even beats Ben in a world where they get to FTC together

  • Hornacek

    … and things like that.

  • Hornacek

    At this point I have no positive or negative opinion about Ghost Island. I don’t know anything about it beyond what Jeff said on the finale, including that it’s all new players and there appears to be no theme dividing the tribes.

    When is the last all-newbie season that randomly divided the players without a theme to the tribe? Philippines? But that one had 3 returnees, so if you wanted *no* returnees, is it Samoa?

    • Super duper fan

      Yup, Samoa was truly the last season where the cast didn’t have any gimmick at all before the next season.

      • gouis

        I feel like Russell was a gimmick.

        • Hornacek

          A master of pirates gimmick?

          • prettyboyprobst

            How he didn’t make that show I will never understand.

          • It got cancelled.

          • prettyboyprobst

            I thought he was a season 1 applicant. Was he not?

          • He applied for season 2.

  • It is confirmed: mike was the second Chrissy vote, although he thinks he might change his vote to Ben. Don’t bother with the rest because it sounds a lot like “I’m the best. I love the show. Bring me back Probst”.

    • Harvey Dent

      I’m kinda stunned JP didn’t vote for Chrissy since they were together the entire game and she was always honest with him

      • Diego Armando

        Well, Ben played a good game and fought hard for a comeback. He got some good calls that I don’t agree with, but he gave everything he had.

      • Kemper Boyd

        JP is a douchey bro though. Giving him an opportunity not to vote for a woman was the problem, he votes for a woman only if the final 3 is Lauren, Ashley and Chrissy.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    I kind of hate that I’m sticking up for Chrissy relative to the rest of you, but in skimming 1,000+ comments I don’t think anybody’s fully acknowledged that she had an awesome finale. The immunity run was mighty impressive, even if it does kind of show that the challenges have swung too far to the puzzles/carnival games end (but that’s not her fault). And who expected such a strong FTC performance. For the most part, we treated Chrissy and Ryan as a pair of goats who were to sure to flail ineffectually in front of the jury (like Ryan) if not outright piss them off. Yes, she shined sitting next to two very weak jury-managers, but again that’s not her fault.

    • By The Numbers

      In a way it makes it worse though, because if she was just a bit more personable she could have won

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      I’m in the middle of traveling for the holidays so I haven’t had a chance to participate in the comments much, but yes I agree 🙂

    • Super duper fan

      I really think Chrissy may’ve just had the best losing finalist jury performance of all time. Plus, the jury speaks videos showed that she wasn’t NEARLY as much of a sure bet to lose as Ryan was, and some people were even considering voting for her over Ben. I do plan on defending her a bit more when the podcast post shows up, but yeah, she had a great last episode.

      • Prom King

        Chrissy may’ve just had the best losing finalist jury performance of all time

        Did she really though? I’m one of her biggest cheerleaders here and I loved her in the finale. But I loved her for her challenge prowess, and more to the point, because she was in full-on villain mode, even through final jury. The weirdly fake thank you’s. Her rattling off details about people’s lives as if memorizing details is truly getting to know someone rather than calculated and creepy memorization. That fact about Joe that was basically her telling him why he’s unsuccessful in relationships – on national tv! The attempt to one-up Ben’s speech by saying that moms are the real heroes and then the super cheesy “we’re also healers and hustlers so title tie-in” – as if this season’s theme is even meaningful! And then that classic politician’s move, the attempt to have them vote for her because they could be proud of her representing them all this season. LOL she’s such a glorious villain. A kick-ass Stepford Wife complete with robo-smile and deadly passive-aggressive jabs. I was stoked she came in second place but I couldn’t vote for her to win, no way. Well I guess if it were a final two against Ryan or Mike, I could probably force myself.

        • Super duper fan

          It wasn’t definetely perfect, but I think she basically did everything she could to get others to vote for her over Ben. I think she owned her game as best as she could and made good to great arguments. And it’s not like we really have that many great losing finalists jury performances to choose from, so she would DEFINETELY at least make top 5 for me. And even if it was flawed, it certainly was better than Ben IMO.

          But I did very much enjoyed Chrissy this season. We never really had anyone like her before, and she was the 3rd person I rooted for the most (1st being Lauren, and 2nd being Devon).

          • Prom King

            Definitely agree that she often made good to great arguments (although not with the examples I listed).

            Mainly I’m glad that there’s another regular here who also really enjoyed Chrissy. I rooted for her second, after Ben.

        • I think the front half of her final plea was good because she owned her game. When she started playing the mom/potential returnee card at the end, I was turned off.

          • Prom King

            Except for the occasional weirdly condescending “thank you”, I would agree. First half was impressive for its straightforward messaging on the strength of her game. Then she began to slip a bit and her true, marvelous, villain colors started showing.

    • Taako From Teevhii

      It’s getting somewhat overshadowed by everyone claiming that Production rigged F4 to get Ben to FTC (not around here, but that idea is floating around the Survivor internet). Which, can we not with this? Really?

      • Super duper fan

        But do we TRULY can blame everyone for thinking that? It smelled all kinds of fishy to me too. I am giving them a benefit of the doubt, but I can’t help questining the legimacy of it at least a LITTLE bit.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          My mom was happy Ben won and still thinks production inserted the twist to help him because he’s a vet.

        • Taako From Teevhii

          If they wanted to rig it for Ben, then this rule change alone doesn’t entirely do that. It just gives him a chance to survive F4. And consider that they would have to keep this F4 rule for future seasons (lest they *really* make it look like rigga morris). They’d be setting a new precedent on the *chance* that the guy they likes wins the challenge. Plus, it’s not inherently a bad thing for Production if Ben doesn’t win, especially if they like him the most; if he gets booted at F4, that’s even more reason to bring him back.

          I’m not saying it’s wrong to be suspicious. But the people who are absolutely convinced that a rigging happened and that Production was out to get Chrissy … please.

    • Diego Armando

      Counterpoint: She couldn’t convince 4 people to vote for her instead of aggressive Ben. She pulled a Chase, in that she played a shitty game, but did the best she possibly could to sell her shitty game.

      Her streak was impressive, but Challenge wins never impress people on our site. It’s not like Brad, Mike, Jenna M. (Who also won 4 immunity challenges), Fabio, Joe or Bob get massive amounts of respect.

    • purplerockandy

      I think Chrissy seemed to do well at the final tribal because the new format allows people to do better than they would have in other formats. The jurors have to actually engage and speak like normal people. You can only attack so much when you know that your peers might shut you down.

      It also helped that she was sitting next to Ben, who was awful at FTC.

    • Crappy

      Her performance was good but also pretty much highlighted the flaws in her game which cost her the win
      – As Desi pointed out there is no excuse for allowing Ben to find another 2 idols without even any attempt at supervision. She had no good excuse for the same
      – Her solution to social game seems to be memorising random facts from the stories other players told her. Not sure that helps when you have otherwise not engaged properly with them. I do believe that production edited her as a worse social player than she was so as to play her off as a villain to Ben’s hero but it is clear that she did not establish enough relationships with people in opposing alliance to her. To be fair to her, she also admitted as much in her exits.

      Given the likelihood of Ben’s back to wall underdog run beating anyone in F3, the debate of Chrissy’s game really comes down to the question of the winner out of F3 which involved Devon there with her instead of Ben. If Devon beats her then she was always playing a losing game.

  • Hornacek

    Although Stephen and Sophie were rather high on this season on last night’s KIA, it was nice to see these two childless adults agree that if there’s one thing Survivor finales need less of, it’s children.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      And here is my periodic statement that in my beautiful dark twisted fantasy world, Survivor Junior would be a season. If they can let 20 sugar-addled pre-teens loose with knives and fire on MasterChef Junior, there’s no reason they can’t have them playing Survivor too.

      • Bundi

        I need someone to make Milf Island a reality.

        • sharculese

          As someone who has ranked every tv parody on 30 Rock, I’ll say that the problem with Milf Island is that it’s not clear what the rules could possibly be.

      • Yo, I read Lord of the Flies, and watched that Simpsons where they were going to the Model UN. Neither ended well.

        …well, except for this part: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d84e4aa4b798914cde304ed6651394963fddd52b489eb644e4960ace8b781741.gif

        • purplerockandy

          So accurate.

      • Rusty Shackleford

        CBS actually did that. It was called Kid Nation and it was terrible. I briefly worked w a parent of one of the contestants, I guess they got a lot of heat from the public. But she told me that w all the production people there it was at least 3 adults to each kid. So not even dangerous, just incredibly annoying and loud.

        • Prom King

          *and it was awesome. (but also terrible.)

        • Happy 10 year birthday, Kid Nation.

        • Kingoftonga

          Counterpoint: Kid Nation was great.

      • By The Numbers

        I know a lot of former Survivors were upset when the age limit dropped to 18 because the psychological trauma is pretty intense

        • At least it hasn’t been a constant stream of 18/19 year olds…yet.

          • 1 in Kaoh Rong, 1 in MvGX, 1 next season…

          • Is there 1 next season? I did not look that closely at ages.

            If there was more than 1 per season, then I would complain.

          • There’s an 18 year old male model.

          • On instagram, I am sure

          • Possibly. You’re gonna be surprised, but I didn’t care enough to click on his bio.

          • I looked at his picture and went “nah”.

      • Alycia Swift

        While I did not watch it, wasn’t kid nation like a type of Survivor?

    • gouis

      Counterpoint: children are dumb and annoying unless they’re related to you.

      • Hornacek

        Yes, but to people that don’t have children, every kid is not related to you, and therefore dumb and annoying.

        • gouis

          Now you’re speaking my language.

        • Alycia Swift

          Well my nieces and nephews are related to me and I have no kids.

          But some are dumb and annoying whether related to you or not.

          • Hornacek

            At the very least, I would hope we could agree that kids on Survivor reunions are the worst.

            (exception: unless they’re designing challenges that hobble Missy)

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Chrissy: “There’s no way we could have followed Ben around 24 hours a day.”

    Goddammit, work in shifts!!! Don’t you watch The Americans??? You seem like you watch The Americans!

    • Harvey Dent

      *repeats buddy system over and over*

    • sharculese

      Really? I would peg Chrissy’s viewing habits as CNN and re-runs of Say Yes to the Dress.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        HGTV, surely.

        • Kemper Boyd

          just Fixer Upper and Property Brothers on loop.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            There’s an off-brand “lifestyle” channel (can’t remember the name of it) that shows a lot of Divine Design reruns. It’s strangely amusing to watch (when my wife is watching, I swear) Candice Olsen transform dated 80s-style rooms into dated early-2000s-style rooms.

          • sharculese

            The Property Brothers, by virtue of cameo-ing on the My Brother, My Brother, and Me tv series, are now McElroy adjacent and therefore get a pass.

          • Taako From Teevhii

            I still can’t believe they got Jimmy to be on the pod. I wonder what kind of favor Lin had to swing to make that happen. Though I guess I’m assuming that Juice didn’t seal the deal on pure charisma during the day they spent together.

          • sharculese

            I think he just really likes Lin and found the whole idea to be funny. He sounded he was having a really good time on the show.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    As long as we’ve got our torches and pitchforks out because of the game-altering F4 twist, can we also contemplate for a minute the mayhem that would have ensued if Chrissy had swung the votes of, say, Devon and Ben (who seemed surprisingly up for grabs with his non-sarcastic “Queen Chrissy” talk), and Ryan Fucking Ulrich got to single-handedly decide the winner?

    • Kemper Boyd

      Cole?
      Ryan surely votes Chrissy.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I meant Joe (yay, I’m forgetting this season already!). Fixed.

      • Crappy

        Ryan said in exits that he would have voted for Ben over Chrissy in a tie breaker

        • Kemper Boyd

          Fucking men.

          • Also, I don’t buy that for a minute.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I think he sees what the show is selling with Ben and thinks he has to give the right answer to be considered for a return.

          • Prom King

            Given Ryan’s relationship to Survivor, I can see that. Hard to understand any other reason why he would have voted for Ben over Chrissy – an alliance he made on day one with his advantage and an alliance partner whose strategic moves have been been shown to him, a player who considers himself strategic.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I think it fits with Mike saying he voted Chrissy but would change now. They can see the narrative the show wants and are trying to sell it.
            I don’t think for a second that if you flipped say Ryan and Mike and Ryan was on jury that Ryan would have voted for Ben (if you flipped him and Devon maybe he votes Devon though)

          • Good God, Mike is desperate to go back, but there are a lot better versions of Mike that need to return like Penner 4.0 and David.

          • Kemper Boyd

            David is the favourite for it but there are probably 15 guys of his age bracket and older I’d have ahead of him including people I currently can’t remember.

          • Absolutely. If you want sweet guys who are not good at the game, go with Keith Nale.

    • purplerockandy

      Ben has already said in exits that had Chrissy and Ryan tied, he’d have given the win to Ryan.

      Guys, let’s not do this. Let’s not let Chrissy not completely sucking in the final tribal transform into “Chrissy almost won and could have if…”

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that we just saw one unintended consequence* of the F4 twist (that if the winner would have been the unanimous F4 boot, the win seems somewhat tainted), and the tie rule has a similar structural flaw (that the sole person who gets to determine the season’s winner is almost certainly the goatiest goat of all, as well as the F4 immunity winner’s stooge).

        *Another is, as Dr. Mike and Fishbach both noted on Twitter, that with idols and advantages expiring at F5, you can win the game without actually, you know, winning a tribal council vote down the stretch.

        • purplerockandy

          Ben won several tribal council votes down the stretch. One of them was unanimous.

        • prettyboyprobst

          I think the other two flaws in this season’s endgame you mentioned here are far worse than the tiebreaker one would be. That one only feels unsatisfying because it’s the deciding vote, but essentially he would just be another juror (one that should have more insight into what happened post-merge than the other jurors), while the two “most worthy” players sit in a F2, like it was always supposed to be.

          I couldn’t figure out what Andy is talking about in the other response to this comment, but I guess that’s still because of the Joe/Ben confusion.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Not to get too nitpicky, since a tie hasn’t happened in 35 seasons and might never happen, but what you’re saying is true only in the absence of the F4 twist. With the twist, the tie-breaker isn’t “just another juror”, but a juror who is heavily biased toward the F4 immunity winner.

          • prettyboyprobst

            That’s true. Even without the F4 twist, never having been voted out distinguishes the tie-breaker from your average juror, I have to admit.

          • purplerockandy

            Yeah, I confused Ben and Joe. That was my bad.

          • prettyboyprobst

            ADS did so first and lead you on the wrong path. But even accounting for that, I couldn’t figure out what you were getting at with the unanimous votes. But that’s ok, sometimes it’s nice to keep things just a little bit mysterious. Or confusing. Either one will keep us on our toes.

          • purplerockandy

            Unanimous: Ben’s vote that took out Lauren was the only one that counted. Thus, unanimous.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Ok, but ADS was saying there Ben would have been the unanimous F4 boot (passive), so the twist in a way adds an asterisk to the winner’s name – nothing about previous tribal councils.
            But calling a vote unanimous when only one ballot counted is also both a stretch and doesn’t dispute the notion that he would have been voted out unanimously at F4. He was part of the unanimous Ashley vote-off, but of course that was only possible because he played his idol before he should have been allowed to play it (yep, that assertion in the podcast really bothered me too. It was interesting to see that vote play out, but I don’t like the precedent it sets at all, like with so much going on in this season).
            Just wanted to clear all that up, even though I realize that your discussion has already moved on in a different direction.

        • Max_Jets

          The Dr. Mike point is the biggest problem, I think. The final 4 twist combined with Ben having to play an idol at final 5 (that was fucking planted at final 5 – sorry, this will always bother me) is what really makes him a poor winner. One without the other would have been much more palatable.

          • Alycia Swift

            That it was planted at final 5 and all but had a neon sign. It was the easiest to find – planted by the raft, with a big arrow, so that it could be found in the dark and barely buried.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Remember when we were all clowning on Joe in the first or second episode for thinking the clue Cole found was saying that the idol was buried under the raft?

      • prettyboyprobst

        But you have no qualms to pre-emptively dismiss an argument by pointing to a hypothetical scenario that has “Pity-vote” Ryan winning the whole season? Got it.

        (not that this in any way relates to the rest of the discussion going on below this OP)

        • purplerockandy

          I confused Ben and Joe.

      • gouis

        But reddit told me Chrissy had one of the best FTCs of all time?

    • purplerockandy

      Now that I’ve read this better, you can see this as a feature, not a bug. The winner of the final immunity gets to A) choose someone for the finals that they think they can beat and B) in doing so, may have clinched their vote in a tiebreaker scenario. Which seems fair to me.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Yeah, I can see that. But you know what seems really fair to me? Letting the final immunity winner and two allies decide who doesn’t go to the finals.

        • purplerockandy

          I honestly don’t concern myself too much with what’s most fair. They should avoid things that are really UNfair, but there are other things to consider when trying to run a TV show than what is most fair to the members of the cast.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Actually I just read something (Andy Dehnart’s article on Reality Blurred) that made me look at it another way. Back when it was an F2, the final immunity winner got to choose who to sit next to at FTC. The new format simply restores that, and adds what is essentially a Wild Card game for the third spot. That seems alright to me, although I still don’t like that this time, the effect was to overrule the will of the majority. This one time, it feels like Calvinball, but if they tell the Ghost Island players ahead of time then fine.

          • purplerockandy

            I agree completely that springing it on the players was wrong (although, it ended up not mattering, since these players never had the opportunity to get rid of Ben anyway). If for no other reason than the way it feels for the audience. In general, you should avoid making your audience feel like the fix was in.

          • Alycia Swift

            That’s the major issue I have with it. I don’t like it but bc the cast did not know before starting the game, it seemed designed to benefit a production fav.

  • indescribable hat

    Wasn’t this twist supposed to prevent the best player going home right before FTC?

  • Prom King

    Just took a leisurely stroll through r/survivor, and have to say that I’ve never seen as much synergy between reddit and PRP before. At least regarding this hilarious new myth of Robbed Devon. So amusing!

    • Max_Jets

      I mean, he is the winner in regular Survivor. Unless it’s Chrissy…

    • Head Architect Sylvia

      I must say I just had a browse and there is actually some hilarious content up there right now. The one naming Aus Survivor Ben as the best Ben of 2017 killed me.

      • Prom King

        Hilarious! Oh man, Aus Ben was my least favorite character that season. I am going to check that out right now.

  • UseYourCommonSense

    This show has literally turned into Big Brother with this rigged BS. Production probably gave Devon a shitty piece of flint on purpose. Ben is a worse winner than Bob because at least Bob didn’t need production interference with all the idols and that twist they pulled out of their asses just to save him.

    And no I am not a crazy conspiracy theorist in real life but this is reality TV and Probst/production were clearly madly in love with Ben.

    • Prom King

      Production probably gave Devon a shitty piece of flint on purpose.

      LOL poor Robbed Devon!

      I’m getting a Survivor Sucks flashback. Hated that website

      • UseYourCommonSense

        It was a hyperbolic statement and I’m not a Dullvon fan (boring and overrated) but c’mon. Production clearly wanted Ben to win. You don’t think it was even slightly suspicious they pulled this twist out when Ben was in trouble? Jeff was drooling all over Ben at the finale.

        • Prom King

          I do agree about the drooling! Ben is definitely Jeff’s type. And I’m sure he would have been upset to see Ben go out fourth.

          I don’t know if production minus Jeff had much thoughts on it. Ben the winner would be the biggest story line fulfilled, for sure, so I can imagine it’s what they hoped. But we’ve seen production make really compelling story lines for so many big characters who don’t make it to the end, from Kathy V all the way to David. Even the recent Cirie to an extent (well, most Ciries). They have enough of a track record of doing this so I don’t see them caring to the extent that they’d actually interfere to a (vaguely) illegal degree – they could still make Ben look awesome even if he did come in fourth place, as they’ve done with many other players.

          I guess it could be that I’m just naive about it. But honestly I don’t think this is the case. And since the beginning we’ve seen other huge, game-changing twists (first swap, fake swap, mutiny, two finalists into three, etc.) make their debut without warning and then royally screw a popular contestant over.

        • i and 1

          The only chance Devon had was if Ben passed out from the kerosene fumes coming off his kindling!

      • gouis

        I had no idea Survivor Sucks disappeared!

        • Prom King

          I don’t know if it actually has. But let’s assume it did, for humanity’s sake.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      And no I am not a crazy conspiracy theorist in real life but this is reality TV and Probst/production were clearly madly in love with Ben.

      Sorry to “actually” you, but actually Survivor is a game show, and has regulations to adhere to that are pretty strict for historical reasons (have you seen the movie Quiz Show? It’s a bit slow but well made and I’ve heard it’s pretty historically accurate). Production may have been in love with Ben, but I guarantee you they love the show’s existence more.

      Plus, it’s definitely not production interference, but their own incompetence and stupidity, that kept everybody else from looking for the idol and/or tailing Ben.

      I do think that if fire making at F4 is here to stay, idols and advantages should expire at F6. And next season is two tribes, so unless they swap into three tribes later there should at least be one fewer idol floating around.

      • Max_Jets

        “Survivor is a game show, and has regulations to adhere to that are pretty strict for historical reasons”
        I don’t know if you ever watch Big Brother, but there’s a twist in BB13 that was way more egregious than this that fans all determined was rigged. Like, they talk about it as fact on RHAP. They can’t tell people to vote for Ben to win or just hand advantages to Ben, but I think they could get away with a bit of favoritism just by setting up situations like this. I do think this was probably in place for while, but do I think it’s possible they decided to implement late in the season or that they wait to see how the games playing out before they replant idols? Sure.

        “I do think that if fire making at F4 is here to stay, idols and advantages should expire at F6.”
        This is the biggest thing I have a problem with. And even then, if the final 6 is the expiration then they shouldn’t be hiding idols at final 6. It’s strategically inert!

      • UseYourCommonSense

        During the first season, they were calling it a game show.

        But after Stacey’s law suit, Burnett quickly changed his tune and started calling it an “unscripted drama”. I also remember some quotes about changing the wording in contestant contracts to avoid scrutiny of the laws governing game shows.

        Its their show and they can add whatever twist they want to it. Its not blatant riggage (Ben could have lost the fire comp) but subtle influence. Setting up scenarios that will obviously benefit a certain person. Big Brother does this all the time.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Huh, that’s interesting. Now I wonder what the regulatory status of Survivor really is.

          The problem I have with the “it was rigged for XXX” charge specifically (rigged for Ben, or Russell, or Cochran or whomever) is–why do they care who wins? I think their bias is toward good TV (so they continue to recruit people who’ve never seen the show despite having tons of applications) and toward action rather than inaction (so Troyzan finding an idol in exciting fashion early in the game and then doing absolutely nothing with it was a terrible outcome from production’s perspective). So I can buy, for example, that if someone is adept at finding and using idols, they’ll keep replanting it (even at F5) rather than take it out of circulation, and make it damn easy to find.

          • Max_Jets

            “why do they care who wins?”
            I don’t think they care personally, but I think they imagine who people would like and want those players to win – whether they do anything about it or not (and I don’t really think they do, but it’s definitely not implausible.) People across the whole fan base HATED that Michele won. You don’t think they would have wanted an Aubry win there? Crowning certain people as winners is good TV.

          • sharculese

            Iirc they went to court and got a declaratory judgement that it’s not a game show.

            If it was a game show Ace would have had a solid case against them for letting Sugar break the rules and take the idol out of his bag, because with it he still might not have won, but he at least might have lasted longer and been entitled to more prize money… er, compensation, because this is totally not a game show.

          • Prom King

            I always just assumed that he gave her some sort of permission that wasn’t shown, since idols are supposedly not able to be stolen, only transferred. Has Ace or anyone gone on record that it was just taken from him, without him telling her she could take it back? Because man that would be a big fail on production’s part.

          • sharculese

            They showed it, didn’t they? Like I remember a scene where she goes up to him and tells him she decided she wanted to hold on to the idol so she went in his bag and took it and he’s looks shocked and is like, “um, you did what?”

          • Prom King

            Huh. That does sound familiar.

        • purplerockandy

          Thanks for writing this so I didn’t have to. The show specifically structured itself to not be a game show.

  • dante47

    I have to rant somewhere about it, because I have seen on Twitter a barrage of “omg the season was rigged of Ben” and “Chrissy was robbed by the twist” comments.
    And you don’t really have space for rants on Twitter.

    Yes, Ben got to the end, simply because whenever his back was against the wall he had an idol to save himself. Oh, there’s also the fire making twist.
    How did he found the idols you ask?

    Well the first one was found by following the instructions he stumbled upon during a reward.
    The other two were found because he was THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS REALLY LOOKING FOR THEM.
    After the first vote in Survivor history where a player was idoled out with 1 vote (meaning that Ben was left completely on the bottom), Ben goes for an idol hunt and NO ONE BOTHERS TO FOLLOW HIM. TWICE.
    AFTER THEY STATED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT BEN IS A HUGE THREAT AND HE MUST GO.

    Yes Mike, I know you searched and didn’t find the idol, but the entire point is “Ben must not find the idol”, not “We must find the idol before Ben does”. You don’t need 3-4 people searching the idol at the same time with Ben. You just need one person to follow him wherever he goes.
    I mean, Chrissy, Ryan and Mike, you say that you are students of this game and superfans, how you do you not know that? Haven’t you watched Caramoan (or even a yt video named “best of Andrea Boehlke”)?

    Now for the fire making twist.
    Anti-Ben fans say that it is designed as a safety net for Ben, in order for him to win it, go to FTC and win, giving the producers the chance for the winner narrative they want.
    But, if the wrong person wins immunity, Ben loses FTC even if he survives the fire challenge.

    1. If Devon wins immunity, there’s no way (at least imo) Ben wins FTC. He was more likeable, and he was in control of the game more than Ben. Also, he can argue that he didn’t need idols to save himself when he was targeted (his vote for Mike at 5 is an amazing maneuver).
    2. If Ryan wins immunity, he probably takes Chrissy so we have the same scenario we saw.
    3. If Ben wins immunity (Seriously, a backwards u?), yes he makes it to FTC (and takes Ryan, obviously), but there’s a high chance that Devon beats Chrissy, so Ben (again, imo) loses.

    So, if anyone deserves to say that the twist screwed him, that’s Devon and not Chrissy.

    But even Devon wasn’t really screwed, he said it himself right after he was out:
    (paraphrasing) “I’m out, but at least I had my fate in my own hands”
    Yes, in a previous season Ben would’ve been booted at 4 with a 3-1 vote.
    BUT. Devon knew EVERY SINGLE OUNCE OF INFORMATION about the twist. (psychological preparation)
    He even had the FREAKING FLINT TO PRACTICE. (actual preperation)
    Ben had absolutely no idea about the twist until TC. And the most important detail about the twist:
    It is never established that Ben is EXTREMELY GOOD AT MAKING FIRE.
    This means that in theory, Devon could kick his ass at the challenge.

    To sum it up, if the producers DID build a safety net for Ben, it has bigger holes than Chrissy’s condescension.

    P.S. If anyone managed to read this whole thing (congrats) and disagrees, please let me know, this is my first comment here and I would love to talk about Survivor (in my country [yes, that’s why I might have grammatical mistakes] the US version isn’t popular).

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      1. Welcome! This generally isn’t the place for “the season was rigged!” or “Chrissy was robbed!” comments, but it’s definitely the place for rants.

      2. Your English is as good as any random native speaker’s.

      3. This is just about the best takedown of the idea that the game was rigged in favor of Ben that I’ve seen. My only quibbles are that 1) I do think that changing the rules at F4 (even if Chrissy was given advance warning) was kind of unfair (they had no way to know that voting out Ben, or anybody, at F4 wasn’t an option), and 2) related to that, if nobody can get voted out at F4 now, I think they need to have idols and advantages expire at F6.

      • 3) I agree with you. At least in the Cook Islands, when it was changed to a F4, Probst told the remaining four at the same time.

      • dante47

        Ok I had to find my old disqus account, but now I’m up and running.
        So many comments, thanks everyone for the good words, happy to finally be able to comment here. I’ll answer to this one.

        Rule changes have happened before, without the players knowing about them.
        For example in Cook islands, they learned at the F4 IC that this time there was going to be a F3. Does that change things? Yes, Ozzy was probably thinking to cut Yul at 3 (because who are we kidding, Ozzy would totally win the FIC).
        But he also could destroy his idol before 4 with a split vote. And honestly that was the smart thing to do, although I don’t expect from Ozzy to understand strategy.
        Does this mean that Yul is a lucky/unworthy winner? Imo, no. We are talking about Yul.

        And honestly, the situation in CI is a good analogy for what happened in HHH. We have someone who everyone knew that he was a jury threat, and went to the end always immune thanks to idol(s) and a surprise twist. Did anyone think “hey maybe we shouldn’t let that guy rely on idols”. No.

        I really don’t think that the format change altered THIS season’s endgame. Twist or no twist, Ben wasn’t going before 7, and that’s when he started relying on idols.
        Question is, if the 5 (I don’t count Lauren because they had no idea about his first idol) knew about the twist at F4, would they still let him to search for the idol unsupervised?
        Again, that’s a lot of hypotheticals but I think they would let him. Yeah, it is a sucky strategy, but we can say the same about what they did now. Their plan:
        1. If Ben has an idol* at 6: An alliance of 4 votes Ashley. Not bad.
        2. If Ben has an idol* at 5: An alliance of 4 prays that Ben doesn’t have the idol and votes for him. (Except Devon is a brilliant player and instead of Ben puts Mike’s name down). Terrible plan for Ryan-Chrissy-Mike (especially you Mike), awesome for Devon.
        3. PRAY THAT BEN DOESN’T WIN THE FIC. Masterminds.
        *Note: If at any point he goes to find an idol, there’s no need to go after him.

        Ben didn’t win immunities, so technically it worked, but it’s not like he competed the way Ryan did. He almost won the FIC.
        They could have him voted out, if they tried just a little bit. They didn’t, and they lost.

    • purplerockandy

      Note to all: ignore any “this comment is waiting moderation” notice you may get about this post. The site does that sometimes and nothing we seem to do changes it. But I vouch for this comment. Read away!

    • Max_Jets

      “Devon knew EVERY SINGLE OUNCE OF INFORMATION about the twist.”
      Devon knew in final 4, not before that! The players should be able to map out their endgame. Ben was dead in the water without this change, as the other 3 expected him to be. Sure, you can criticize Chrissy, Ryan, and Devon because they tried to get Ben out before. Maybe they didn’t care that much because they always had the final 4 to oust him. It’s not like Ben staying around hurt them beforehand – they were all right on their way to their ideal final 3 that they had planned since final 6.

      I think Ben has a good shot at beating Devon at FTC, but even if he didn’t the twist clearly benefited Ben more than it didn’t. Calling it rigged for him to win is a bit much, especially with the confidence some people have about it, but it gave him a chance when he shouldn’t have had one.

      • Max_Jets

        I’m finding that when people start to say it definitely wasn’t rigged is when I start to say that maybe it was rigged. I don’t want this to be my take!

      • Maritimer

        I actually think Devon clobbers Ben at FTC after watching his Ponderosa video – I think he takes, for sure, Desi, Cole, Lauren, Ashley, and whichever of Ryan/Chrissy he isn’t there with. Good chance he gets Mike. Lord knows with JP, but I think bro-down might get his vote too.
        I’m with you that I don’t think it was rigged, but Devon definitely got hosed by this twist. He belongs at the top of the twist screwed list with Michelle Yi and Malcolm.

        • purplerockandy

          The Jury Speaks videos certainly make it seem like they weren’t all that psyched about either choice they had.

      • Prom King

        players should be able to map out their endgame.

        But why though?

        • Max_Jets

          Because they’re playing a game! I like being able to pinpoint “this person could have tried to do this to win the game” and not have that thing be something that is 100% hindsight bias and many other people do too because that’s the way they watch the show. Like, would you have liked them to paint the best picture to win the game without telling them beforehand? I get not caring about it, but you don’t understand why people want this?

          • Prom King

            I’m actually trying to wrap my mind around it, after reading it in, I think, both Mike’s exit interview and a comment from Adam.

            Of course I think people should map out their games, as much as possible. But since the tragic outcome of Micronesia (not really tragic I guess. I love Parvati, I just love Cirie more), I’ve just had to adjust to the occasional reality of late game-changing things happening that means the best laids plans of the best gamers go awry.

          • Max_Jets

            That’s understandable. I haven’t accepted it (obviously) and I don’t think I should accept it, because I think it’s bad and I want production to do better.

      • corndogshuffle

        To be fair, Devon did have the chance to map his endgame where Ben was concerned. But by the time he could do anything about it, Ben already had the first of his three consecutive Idols and saved himself with it.

        Then the twist itself… but I doubt Devon would have changed his timing for targeting Ben if he had known about the twist in advance. To me, all of this keeps coming back to the fact that every other player in the game refused to do anything about Ben finding Idols.

        • Max_Jets

          My point is that no one in the trio had to care that much about Ben finding idols because it only protected him until 5. Their final 3 stayed intact throughout Ben’s idols and would have lasted if the twist hadn’t been there. Do we know how invested the trio was in keeping Ben from finding idols? (Maybe we do, I don’t remember everyone’s confessionals about it) We know Chrissy was at final 5, but she didn’t give a damn if Ben went home at final 6. Did they need to go all out in preventing him from finding them if his presence didn’t affect them until final 4? Wouldn’t knowledge about the twist at least be a much bigger motivator?

          • purplerockandy

            You do know that it’s at least possible that Ben wins the final four challenge, right? In fact, he almost did. So that should be enough of a motivator.

          • Max_Jets

            And Mike could have too! There’s always someone that can take that spot.

          • purplerockandy

            Or, Mike could have voted Devon at F5. Which is to say… no excuse for not keeping Ben from finding that last idol.

          • Max_Jets

            Fair.

    • Maritimer

      I agree that it wasn’t rigged, but I think in hindsight its a bad twist that doesn’t really solve the problem they set out to solve. They were trying to save David with this twist. Instead, this season they lost him because of it. Devon was totally screwed. Production seemed to think we would like Ben more than we did (I’m not sure how the general community feels about him, but I don’t get the impression he had the popularity of Ken even) but I don’t think they’d rig for him, wayyyy too much risk

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I’m not convinced the new F4 format is a good idea, but I think you’re framing it, and what it’s meant to accomplish, incorrectly. It’s not meant to “save” David but to give him a shot at F3 (BTW, regardless of whether Devon could have beaten Ben at FTC, Ben was perceived to be unbeatable, and that’s all that counts, so Ben, and not Devon, was the David this season). Now in order to give David a shot, you necessarily have to put someone at risk. That’s not going to be the final IC winner or that person’s patsy, so it’s the third wheel–the Devon, the Ken, the Cambodia Spencer–that gets put at risk.

        • Quick correction:Ken won Final Immunity. So, if this decision came to pass, it would have been up to Ken alone to decide who would make fire between David/Hannah/Adam.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Oh, that’s right, thanks. We can only speculate about alternate timelines, of course, but I think it’s safe to assume Ken takes Hannah, and IMO either David or an Adam that just won a fire-making challenge would have been a better winner.

          • purplerockandy

            Best timeline: Ken gives Hannah his immunity, then takes out David himself.

            Worst best: he does that, and the jury still gives Adam credit for convincing Ken to do it.

          • I can actually see Hannah doing that with Ken and not getting any credit. I still think Adam would win lights out, but that would be a really fun end to MvGX.

          • Alycia Swift

            Although if he did Best timeline, he might have gotten second.

          • purplerockandy

            Maybe. Maybe Taylor or Chris are impressed by it?

          • Alycia Swift

            And my guess is Hannah would have been taken and the other 2 compete for fire.

        • Maritimer

          You’re absolutely right. I was more equating Devon to David as the fan favourite going into the finale, not the jury threat (which, frankly, I think production miscalculated and bought Ben would be the FF). I’m just saying that I think they were so focused on trying to give the obvious jury threat a second chance (besides immunity) to get past F4 that I’m not sure they fully thought about who they might lose instead by putting them at risk – which is exactly who you list – Devon, Cambodia Spencer, still Cydney, etc

    • Diego Armando

      I agree with everything you said and your English is great. Welcome aboard. New commenters are always welcome.

    • corndogshuffle

      I agree with virtually all of what you just said and hope you stick around here!

  • Something Quirky

    So it seems Carrie is no longer covering Survivor on the AVC? 🙁
    Scott did the finale review, and at the end says he’ll be back in Feb for the new season.

    • There’s nothing about it on her Twitter that I could see.

      • Something Quirky

        And nothing on the last review, or in the comments of either review, which is weird.

        At first I thought maybe they’d given the wrong byline, but I can’t see Carrie saying that stuff about production interference.

    • gouis

      PRP should get her to do a weekly guest post.

      • gouis

        Especially since we had a non-zero impact on the AVClub comment section dying.

        • corndogshuffle

          I’d argue that AVClub had a non zero impact on running us off, but your point is taken. It definitely helped that we had such a comfy landing spot at PRP.

      • The problem is that she probably enjoys being paid.

        • I was going to say that she likes having a steady job probably.

  • jniedj

    I’m surprised Lauren didn’t use her extra vote at final tribal counsel.

  • I am really interested in an editorial choice I have been seeing with recent duos who compete against each other at fire-making. Rodney and Carolyn, Aubry and Cydney, and Ben and Devon are often seen as rivals and/or allies in the edit, so it makes the fire making challenge that much more compelling.

  • forever1267

    I watched the finale at a hotel bar near LAX. Non-audio and non-closed captioned. Do you all have ANY idea how much of “Survivor” is Voice Over?!?!??! I have no idea what those advantages were, and I have no idea how Ben ended up getting to fire at Final Four. When I get home next week, this will be a whole new episode for me.