Survivor Kaoh Rong Episode 14 Liveblog: “Not Going Down Without a Fight”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for the exciting finale of  Survivor Kaoh Rong!

 

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
Matt
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  • Black Dynamite

    I knew it was probably inevitable one would leave but losing either Aubry or Cydney in a fire making challenge is devestating.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer
  • So, now, we know why Neal was so insistent with his Tweeting since the end of Worlds Apart.

  • Alycia Swift

    Wow this is one of the most exciting tribals in years. I’m about 2 minutes behind but I can’t guess.

  • Black Dynamite

    Holy shit Michele won!!!

  • Mike Hirsch

    Well, that sucked.

    • Alkanarra

      Yep. In the immortal words of Comic Book Guy: “Rest assured that I was on internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.”

      • Mike Hirsch

        This is a bitter pill to get. It reminds me of that other quote by Comic Book Guy: “I can give you this phone. It is shaped like Mary Worth.”

    • tocantins

      Now we finally know why Jeff doesn’t like this season. His face when he read the winner vote, man! can’t remember seeing him so pissed before!

      • gouis

        I need a recap of that. I blacked out.

  • gouis

  • gouis

    Is this what it’s going to feel like in November?

    • DrVanNostrand

      Don’t even joke about that shit.

      • Purplerockmatt

        i didn’t think i could feel worse, but i do

    • m0nit0rman

      When Jeff was doing the running commentary during the immunity challenge, I expected him to shout “This is for A MILLION DOLLARS! You’re going to need it to survive in Trump’s America!”

      • sharculese

        Well, this was filmed back before anyone could entertain that nightmare scenario.

    • Are you a time traveler and were you trying to warn us?

      • gouis

        Either that or I’m just a pessimist.

      • gouis

        Also what are you doing here!

        • I got bored while I am grading things.

          • gouis

            I really think this is where we branched off in the darkest timeline. In real life Aubry wins and Hillary dominates.

          • Perhaps

  • So. How do we stop spoilers from ruining another season?

    • gouis

      I too am suspicious,

      • Edgic my ass. Info came out and killjoy nerds ruined the whole season by manipulating their predictions around it.

        The girl wasn’t even on the show.

    • Alkanarra

      No user polls, at least not “who do you think will win”. That tipped it off on this site for me, and then after that how could you *not* talk about Michele after her suspicious early showing?

      • andythesaint

        I’ve been saying this to the rest of the staff for weeks now. They don’t believe me that the polls were what brought it to a lot of our consciousness. Glad at least someone else agrees.

        • gouis

          Yeah down with the polls.

    • Prom King

      While it is unbelievable to me that a jury would award Michele over Aubry, I don’t think spoilers is what had the edgic crowd believing in her. The edit truly did consistently feature a number of (thoroughly bland and uninteresting) Michele confessionals. Looking at the show purely from an edit perspective, what I saw was the editors desperately trying to make sense of a Michele win and to show that she had some relevance. Much like the Fabio win in Guatemala. It’s not something I wanted to believe in, but the editing did show her potential simply by featuring her so much – despite there being very little to actually feature.

      • andythesaint

        I think it might be a mix. I think a lot of the edgicers were doing exactly what you’re suggesting, picking up on the slight clues the show was giving. But it’s also possible that once some spoilers got out there, it forced unspoiled people to start looking at those clues more closely than they otherwise would’ve. I know I never paid any attention to her until it was pointed out.

        But for the most part, I’m prepared to tip my cap off to them. They were right. I was wrong.

  • tocantins

    Man, I can’t believe this. They didn’t even try to buff her edit in the final 2 hours. I came today believing she could win, but I was so sure Aubrey was winning by the end that I almost didn’t even see the vote read. I have no idea what they were thinking when they edited this season (and especially this episode), it is like they wanted to make us pissed.

  • Scarlett3639

    So, bland and inoffensive is worth a million dollars.

    • sharculese

      That’s the principle Modern Family works on.

  • gouis

    I am not OK with this on multiple levels. Is this what Hantz fans felt like after Samoa? Do we think Cydney would have won? WHAT IS HAPPENING.

    • I am about ready to find out. I finish watching Samoa tomorrow with my non Survivor fandom friend.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I AGREE WITH HANTZ THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TOO

  • Black Dynamite

    Now Sia is here. What the fuck is happening?

    • Alkanarra

      I’m pretty sure she was a Batman villain at some point.

      • Black Dynamite

        This is the weirdest finale I’ve ever seen, This will stay with me for awhile.

        • Alkanarra

          Is that the least amount of time they’ve ever spent talking to a winner? One question? Even Drew Carey got a better edit than Michele!

          • Isn’t this a running theme in recent years? Jeremy didn’t even get a winner’s montage last season. Also, Jeff can sense if someone is not going to be concise or give him the answers he wants and move on. See what happened with Mike after he mentioned God/Jesus Christ (I can’t remember which)

          • Alkanarra

            Are you accusing Michele of not being well thought out and articulate?

          • Diego Armando

            She is like, totally articulate and stuff.

          • Perhaps her greatest strength is not improv. Luckily Drew Carey was there if she needed help.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Also jeff had to help explain because she doesnt even know

          • sharculese

            He didn’t explain so much as he constantly talked over her. I don’t think I’ve seen Jeff treat a winner with such disregard since Jenna.

          • Purplerockmatt

            and no offense but Jenna was my choice for worst winner. Before today that is… (note haven’t seen Fabio)

          • Diego Armando

            Jenna is my choice too, but Michele is in the running.

          • sharculese

            Fabio at least had couple funny scenes and was more self-aware, but their performances are in the same category.

          • Diego Armando

            Fabio was a character. I enjoyed seeing him on screen. He was not good at Survivor, but he was solid enough tv.

          • andythesaint

            Chris. He OPENLY despised Chris as a winner because Chris was mean to Probst’s girlfriend.

          • Hornacek

            I’ll allow it.

    • gouis

      This season sure is something.

  • Ike1

    What the fucking fuck just happened? What the ever-living fucking flipping farking flip-flop floozy fring-frong just happened? I can’t think of another final tribal vote in the last ten years… or maybe ever… where I… I… just… NO WORDS! WTF?!? I normally don’t say “so-and-so deserved that, you stupid jury!” but… Aubry deserved that! Stupidest jury ever! Oh god, I’m like one of those pro-Russell Hantz people now. Ugh.

    They explain it as saying Michele had a really great social game and made lots of friends. So… she did so really, really boring-ly then, so they didn’t put it in the edit?

    This Sia stuff is just adding even more WTFery.

    • Scarlett3639

      It’s The Room of finales.

      • Scarlett3639

        Actually, no. It’s the How I Met Your Mother finale … of finales.

        • Purplerockmatt

          Shit good comparison, i said Signs, but I think that is better

          • m0nit0rman

            Quit beating around the bush. This was The Phantom Menace of finales.

          • andythesaint

            We may not have accomplished much this season, but we did lead the internet in Shyamalan references.

          • Hornacek

            Why was M. Night Shyamalan said when Debbie was listing her jobs? I didn’t understand that.

          • She was an extra in a Shyamalan film.

          • Hornacek

            Really! This is the first I’ve ever heard about this. Which one?

          • I think The Happening

        • Purple Rock Emma

          WHY WOULD YOU REMIND ME OF THAT TRAVESTY OF STORYTELLING?

          • Scarlett3639

            We must remember so that we can prevent it from happening again.

  • VoicOff

    OBVIOUS WINNER MICHELLE

    Damn, you guys must feel dumb :p

    (Hello Sia, what the fck are you doing here ?)

  • gouis

    At this point it’s a shame that Mark isn’t there, everyone else is.

    • m0nit0rman

      I was sure Sia had had Mark airlifted to Hollywood.

  • Scarlett3639

    So it seems like they are doing everything possible to avoid talking about what happened. Sia, Drew Carey, what next? Twenty minutes about Mark the chicken finding a spouse and starting to raise a brood?

    • gouis

      I’d be more OK with that than with what just happened.

    • gouis

      Now it’s just Caleb and Dr. Joe. What. The Fuck.

      • Scarlett3639

        The only thing left is for them to bring all the camera operators onstage.

  • gouis

    Get ready for an entire offseason of edgic discussions on RHAP and elsewhere. It’s the fucking Survivor end of days.

    • I think, you know, if she got the votes, she wins. Simple as that.

      I just don’t understand why they didn’t put her on the show.

      • gouis

        I do because she’s fucking boring.

  • DrVanNostrand

    Michele is THE WORST. I’ve never been so baffled in my life. UTR players win by going up against players who piss everyone off. This is bonkers.

    • gouis

      But who did Aubry piss off? WHY DIDN’T SHE WIN!?!?!?!

      • DrVanNostrand

        THAT’S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW!!! WHY ARE WE YELLING!!!??? I FEEL LIKE I’M TAKING CRAZY PILLS, HERE!!!

        • gouis

          WE’RE ALL TAKING CRAZY PILLS.

      • Purplerockmatt

        No ONE THERE SEEMED MAD AT AUBRY

        • gouis

          WHYYYYYYY

  • Other Scott

    Okay, as one of the people most not on the Michele is winning train, I’ll eat some crow.

    But the reasoning for the Michele truthers still makes no freaking sense. So she got an inflated edit over what she should have because she was boring? So she had a nice first confessional? If someone gave me a good reason Michele was winning I’d buy it, but I never saw one. So yeah, they were right. But you can’t convince me that Aubry “heroic music played after fire challenge” had less of a winner’s edit. I don’t see how I’ll ever be convinced of that.

    As for how Michele won, it’s the same way as Fabio won. If someone who wasn’t in the majority alliance makes the final tribal council, they win. The outsider always wins. Partly because they didn’t vote half the jury out, and partly because people cheer for the underdog.

    • Alkanarra

      And the ultimate downside is that it will just convince future players not to let the underdog through and we’ll get more boring, stick-to-the-numbers seasons because of it.

      • DrVanNostrand

        No more voting blocks (blocs?)? Stephen will be disappointed.

      • Purplerockmatt

        Well that might actually yield some finals with multiple power players meaning a close vote

  • Black Dynamite

    I’m still so confused. The only explanation i can think of is the show completely screwed up in their presentation. I don’t get how Aubry loses.

    • gouis

      Better make sure we spend time with medical.

      • Black Dynamite

        I’m way more pissed at the lack of information then Michele winning. They thought she was the most deserving. That’s fine with me. I just wanna know why.

        • Purplerockmatt

          EXACTLY I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHY THIS HAPPENED

    • Other Scott

      Nah, the show probably presented correctly and was completely baffled as well. You can tell by the look on Jeff’s face.

      • Hornacek

        What we saw of Michele this season was the editor’s best attempt to show us the reasons why she won. That is sad on so many levels.

    • Ms_Woozah

      Yeah. Like, I don’t have anything personally against Michele. It’s that we didn’t see her doing ANYTHING until the last few episodes, and even those things paled in comparison to what Aubry was doing. Like, why was Scot so high on Michele in the FTC? Couldn’t we have seen some of that in the narrative of the season??

      • Black Dynamite

        Scot’s comments made no sense when you break it down. Where exactly was Aubry weak down the stretch? What could she have done differently? I wish we got comments from anyone when Michele was getting stronger that signify that she has improved before the last episode of the season. I wish Scot and/or the show explained that line of thinking better. When you just leave it up to the viewers to have to grasp for plausible reasons to go Michele over Aubry it doesn’t put people like Scot in a good light.

  • gouis

    This was still a good season. It was unpredictable all the way through. I guess we have to take the good with the bad.

    • Other Scott

      It’s basically Amazon.

      • Alkanarra

        As a die-hard Stephanie fan, this was Guatemala all over for me.

        • gouis

          There are die-hard Stephanie fans post HvV?

          • Alkanarra

            Yeah, but you have to really, really like Palau.

          • gouis

            Hey stick to your guns.

          • sharculese

            She kind of got dicked over in HvV by James deciding to turn heel.

            ETA: Also having to be on a tribe with Rupert didn’t help.

          • Black Dynamite

            Rupert too. His ego couldn’t take any provider that wasn’t himself. James wouldn’t shut up about her Palau situation even though it doesn’t make much sense in the context of her being awful.

          • sharculese

            As I understand it Rupert had issues with Stephenie dating back to way before the season. She was the new hotness just as his star was beginning to fade, and he could not deal with it.

          • Black Dynamite

            Didn’t know that but it makes a lot of sense.

        • Other Scott

          Oh, but you can look at Guatamala and see a ton of reasons why Stephanie lost. The show had no interest in showing us why Aubry lost, probably because the show was clearly super confused as well.

        • DrVanNostrand

          At least they made it really clear that they simply didn’t like Stephenie at FTC. Although, according to Mario Lanza, another reason was something we didn’t see. Everyone pretty much agreed that they didn’t want a returnee to win.

          • And Rafe only voted for Steph because (reportedly) he didn’t want her legacy to be ruined.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Beat me to it!

      • gouis

        Yeah but the finals in Amazon made sense. It’s not like this was Tai/Michele final.

        • tocantins

          Yes, I just posted this below, but this is MUCH worse than Amazon to me. In Amazon, everyone knew that Rob had to win the last immunity to win the game. This is like Cagayan would have been if people voted for Woo to win.

          • Diego Armando

            Yeah that is a much better analogy. I’m not sure there is a more inexplicable final vote than this one.

          • Other Scott

            Nah, Woo winning Cagayan would have made more sense than this. Tony was a jerk to a lot of people.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I agree. Woo winning would have made ALMOST no sense. Meaning this ending was far more senseless.

          • VoicOff

            So does this means this result could be analyzed from the gender angle ?

          • Alycia Swift

            If it had been Kass v. Woo, Woo likely would have won, which would have made little sense because of a bitter jury and though people argue about whether Kass’ moves were good or bad (and really it was only one big one), it kept her in the game longer than she likely would have been. And she won a challenge or two and was at least making moves.

          • Prom King

            Upon re-watching Cagayan, I was actually surprised at how little shit he talked about his competition. He was aggressive but never really an unmotivated dick.

          • sharculese

            Tasha and Kass have both said he was a bit of sexist, it just didn’t make the edit.

          • Prom King

            I can buy that he was a bit of a sexist, for sure. Although it coming from Kass and Tasha – two players whose perspectives are often very questionable to me – actually makes makes me wonder. If it was coming from Trish or Jefra, I’d accept it without a second thought.

          • sharculese

            I’m with you on not seeing the two of them as the most reliable sources, but Tasha had a specific example – after the merge she was trying to put together a womens’ alliance and Tony told her that it was stupid because everyone knows women can survive on their own.

          • Prom King

            Yeah I can see Tony saying that!

          • andythesaint

            Tony straight up admitted to this happening during our interview and accepted the blame for losing Tasha’s vote as a result.

          • sharculese

            I missed that, because he was talking at Tony speed that whole interview and I missed about a third of the things he said.

          • Alycia Swift

            Wow that pretty much sounds like Scot this season.

          • Alycia Swift

            Well if two players who hate each other say the same thing about a third, I tend to give it credit.

          • Alycia Swift

            Other players have said they did not show Trish cleaning up his messes and the derogatory comments he made.

          • Alycia Swift

            And Tony had Trish to clean up his messes. And according to interviews of other players (Kass) was quite sexist.

        • Other Scott

          They didn’t at the time though. Matt had a way better edit than Jenna. It’s only afterwards the jury started coming out and saying, yeah, voted for Jenna because Matt is crazy and had no idea what he was doing.

          I’m sure we’ll get reasons from the jury and they’ll make enough sense that people will buy it and this will be forgotten as well. But the real reason is always going to be Michele was the underdog and Aubry was the frontrunner, and the jury just wants to see the underdog make it.

          • Kingoftonga

            I think you’re right. Michelle was perceived as the scrappy underdog. And while she didn’t make a lot of moves, she did occasionally bring fireworks to tribal council (like that one where she basically spent 10 minutes telling Tai why he wasn’t going to win the game), which jurors probably appreciate when it’s the only interesting thing that happens in a three-day time period.

      • Max_Jets

        Is it so different from the ending to Heroes vs Villains? The biggest difference is that Sandra is one of the show’s most entertaining characters.

        • Other Scott

          That’s another good one. And eventually, that one made sense.

          This one will have explanations eventually as well. Give it time.

        • gouis

          Yes because Sandra is awesome and Russell sucks.

        • tocantins

          This is the complete opposite from Heroes vs. Villains. That is how I would have felt if Russel had won.

          • Other Scott

            No Parvati is Aubry. People were super confused and upset there too.

          • DrVanNostrand

            That’s a good comparison. I still feel like I got why they didn’t vote for her though. They felt like she was tainted by Russell. But I thought Parvati’s TC was great: “No one else wanted to work with me, so I went to the end with the greatest goat of all time.”

          • tocantins

            Ok, I can see how you could have hoped Parvati would win. But you certainly can’t say that Sandra’s win came out of nowhere, she got a good edit all season, with some clear winner quotes. (Like the “Russel thinks I can’t win the FTC, but I don’t know about that!”)

          • But, I also think that Parvati made the heroes mad by rubbing in JT’s play in their faces, which is not a great way to win the majority of the jury’s votes.

          • Other Scott

            I think that gets overplayed, by a lot. It’s the same deal, Parvati was the favourite and at the top and was mostly responsible for all of them losing, so they had to look for other alternatives.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I agree 100%, but at least the editors put it out there. I was amazed on my re-watch how much the jury was reveling in Sandra’s performance at the end. Plus, Sandra gave the editors entertainment because that’s what Sandra does. Even though I walked away thinking Parvati played a better game, I understood what happened.

          • Fair enough. But, it is the only (admittedly non-canon) thing we got.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Yes. It’s different because it was obvious in HvV that everyone hated Russell. Watch the last few TCs and they’re openly cheering for Sandra. Samoa was less obvious, but the edit made clear why everyone hated Russell. I can’t figure out what Aubry did to piss anyone off, or why they respected Michele’s game more, or why they liked her more. One of the three had to happen, but I still can’t figure out which.

          • Other Scott

            Parvati…not Russell. Russell is basically the Tai.

          • Diego Armando

            Sandra also tried to help the Heroes. The Heroes just screwed everything up for themselves.

          • Other Scott

            Yeah, Heroes vs Villains made a lot of sense in hindsight. It just didn’t at the time.

            I’m fairly confident this one will in time as well.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I am not.

          • Diego Armando

            Keep tellin’ yourself that.

          • Diego Armando

            I made sense then, mostly because I was a Sandra supporter.

          • Alkanarra

            They liked Michele more because she didn’t vote them out. Because she couldn’t vote them out. Because she didn’t influence a single vote. Like a true winner.

          • Black Dynamite

            I agree with you there. They were low key bitter. Michele literally had no blood on her hands expect for betraying the one person who was always going to vote for her.

          • Hornacek

            But she singlehandedly voted out Julia, her closest ally!

          • You brought up an interesting point: go back and watch the jury cheer on Aubry to beat Cydney. What happened?

          • Purplerockmatt

            They seemed to think she was giving good answers too! NO FUCKING IDEA

          • I think she has now cracked onto the list of the best FTC performances by losing finalists.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I DIDNT KNOW THAT WAS A THING WTF HAPPENED

          • It’s a Reddit thread that happened either yesterday or today.

          • Dr.Horrible

            A bunch of bros could not tolerate the idea of being bested by a smart, geeky chick, so they gave it to the pretty girl who didn’t actually beat them.

          • Ms_Woozah

            These bros like to see women cry and beg I guess. Aubry should have let the waterworks flow.

          • Dr.Horrible

            Do you think it would have made a difference in how they voted? I don’t think it would have. Short of telling Joe to hold back on the meat I don’t think that Aubrey could have done anything to change the outcome.

          • DrVanNostrand

            DID YOU NOT SEE ME YELL THAT I FEEL LIKE I’M TAKING CRAZY PILLS? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED!!!!

          • andythesaint

            Maybe it was more about Cydney than Aubry.

            Or they really didn’t want to sit through a two hour firemaking challenge.

          • It can be 3 things.

          • Hornacek

            The jury seemed really excited once they knew it was going to a fire-making challenge. Apparently the only one of these challenges they had seen before was Stephenie vs Bobby-John where it was over within minutes. This one didn’t seem to go on forever like the Becky/Sundra one but you could tell as it went on that the jury was losing patience and getting bored/annoyed.

          • Hornacek

            Apparently they were cheering against Cydney and not for Aubry.

        • sharculese

          That’s really it. Sandra is fun. Michele is dull as dishwater.

      • Purplerockmatt

        except we know why Rob lost Amazon, he wasnt at the end!

    • DrVanNostrand

      It’s like Amazon, sort of. I mean, it wasn’t as fun as Amazon, but it was full of excitement and twists and turns. The whole Michele thing might drop it down a bit, but I can’t complain about much else.

    • tocantins

      I have never been so pissed with Survivor. This for me right now is my least favorite season. But I do accept that it might be better for someone watching knowing that Michelle is winning. (Like one of the reasons Amazon is one of my favorite seasons is because (SPOILER) I knew that Rob wasn’t going to win.) (BTW, I think this ending is MUCH worse than Amazon. In Amazon it at least made sense.)

  • Other Scott

    Honestly, I’m still kind of bitter that I got outsmarted by the Michele truthers.

    That said, I can’t wait until Andy sees this episode.

    • gouis

      I am really upset that they won. Reddit can go fuck itself.

      • Other Scott

        Reddit was actually more on Aubry, it’s the Unspoiled Edgic carryovers.

    • Max_Jets

      I was so excited to watch the insanely overconfident ones be wrong. They’ve been enabled.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’m not sure we got outsmarted, we got out-spoiled.

      • gouis

        Is there any evidence that people were spoiled?

        • DrVanNostrand

          They thought Michele was winning.

        • Max_Jets

          It’s a bit complicated. Apparently the Ponderosa videos show the jurors’ feet, so people knew who was on the jury once the merge hit. That said, Michele was the most common prediction before the merge and the biggest counterpoint to the Michele winner’s edit (Aubry) was not part of the jury.

          • I think the biggest piece in that arsenal was Probst saying that Michele was the next Parvati.

          • Diego Armando

            I assume he meant Cook Islands Parvati.

          • I had a weird feeling he was talking about Micronesia Parvati

          • VoicOff

            So, Probst doesn’t understand who Parvati is.

          • Diego Armando

            Wasn’t she one of the Little Rascals?

          • Purplerockmatt

            the ugly one? was she the ugly one?

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            The one with the ring around her eye?

          • Purplerockmatt

            Moe

          • I thought that was abundantly clear.

          • VoicOff

            Still sad and baffling, though

          • andythesaint

            We’re not supposed to remember Cook Islands Parvati. Just like Marquesas Rob.

          • Hornacek

            Or HvV Rob.

          • sharculese

            The kid I worked with who got back into the show this season stopped with China, so he only knows Cook Islands Parvati. He is not a fan.

        • Other Scott

          No, everyone insists there were no spoilers. I dunno. Something’s wrong, the thing that might just be wrong is people are better at reading the show than I am.

          Still, though, what edit is Michele’s like that they could point to as a winner?

          • Roswulf

            Exactly what they said. She got a lot of boring confessionals where she said nothing of substance- attempts to make her visible when she had no narrative role.

          • prettyboyprobst

            For me it was the absence of anything resembling a winner through the merge, that lead me to take Michele seriously after the Peter episode. We had all that focus on the Beauty girl alliance, then obvious winner Anna Khait got voted out and we were left with Julia, who we didn’t know could speak at this point, and Michele, who got some boring, but potentially relevant confessionals in addition to her confessionals about Nick, to take up that storyline.

            Cydney(still with Kylot), Debbie, Tai, Jason and maybe even Aubry had something going for them, but it didn’t seem enough at such a relatively late stage in the game.

  • Ike1

    Ha ha, one of the players called out “water” when Debbie was listing her jobs, hopefully to draw attention to the fact that she’s a Flint-y water felon.

    • EmAndScoutInBK

      I think it was Cyd, and she yelled it after Debbie paused after “Counterfeit detection of…” It was amazing. She blew up the WaterFelon.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    They should have spent this reunion explaining why people were so angry that they didn’t vote for Aubry. Instead, we got Sia. Fuck this.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    WTF IS THIS THEME

    • gouis

      WHAT ABOUT GEN Y!??!?! WHERE ARE WEEEEEE

      • Sylvisual

        Letters have been replaced by meaningless titles coined by 60-year-old magazine editors.

        • gouis

          I believe there is a distinct difference between Gen Y and Millennials.

          • Sylvisual

            “Millennial” ranges from ’83-’85 to ’00. It’s dumb, because the younger millennial and Gen Z are truly morons to us ’80s kids, but that’s consensus.

          • gouis

            Yeah and I disagree with that categorization. People born in 1980 aren’t GenX either.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Y should be like 79-86

          • gouis

            It’s a micro generation for sure. Grew up with technology instead of into it like Millennials.

          • Purplerockmatt

            exactly

          • I’m born in 1979 and I was too young to understand anything those dicks were doing in Reality Bites. I would cut Gen X at like…born in 1977.

            But yeah, your definition is perfect.

          • Purplerockmatt

            my sister is 1976, i am 1983, I am not a Millenial, but I am not her gen, so I think Y starts after 76 sometime and ends after 83

          • I would even go so far as YOBs 1976 or 1977 to 1985 or 1986.

          • sharculese

            You’re a Millennial. Now that you know you’re one of us, also know that it has two ‘n’s in it.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I like being on the border so I can complain about how much both generations suck and brag that I’m not really a part of either one.

          • andythesaint

            I wasn’t Gen X growing up but somehow have since become it. Born in 1977.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I was born in 81 and I swear every time I look it up I get a different answer (whether I’m x or y). Of course, I think it’s all nonsense so old people have a term they can use to tell large swaths of younger people to get off their lawn.

          • Sylvisual

            As someone born in ’88….I agree with you. As I said on Twitter, this is going to add to the insufferable number of cliches and think pieces.

          • bassmanxvi

            I’m from 1981 too. We are too young to be X, and possibly too old to be millennials. We grew up with the net becoming mainstream, not after it.

    • Scarlett3639

      Worst theme ever or The worst theme ever?

    • sharculese

      I might have missed it, but does this season have a location name? Because I’m not calling it Millennials vs. Gen X.

      • gouis

        Fiji 2.0

      • Nope.

        • sharculese

          Cool, get ready for a season of me talking about Survivor: [redacted]

    • At least it has pretty colors (purple and orange).

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    So we’re doing no collar vs. blue collar/white collar?

  • Diego Armando

    Okay, I am too pissed to write right now. Seriously, what the Hell jury and show. This is the worst ending to a season since Amazon.

    • tocantins

      Much worse. I wouldn’t have been angry if it was a F2 and Aubrey had been voted out on F3, not even if Tai had done the smart thing and voted her out at F4. But losing on the jury vote with nothing on the FTC or edit so far to indicate that just feels like a sucker punch. (Michelle herself said that not voting for Aubrey was giving her the million dollars! She herself didn’t think she had a shot! How can they show that on screen if Aubrey loses to her on the vote?!)

      • Purplerockmatt

        YUP (CANT STOP TALKING IN CAPS)

  • Black Dynamite

    Survivor 33: Adults vs Slighty Older Adults. This seems like such a reach. Sometimes I wish they would just put them on an island without the theme shit.

    • VoicOff

      Survivor 33: let’s caricature youth

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Seriously. We don’t need a theme! Plenty of great seasons have no theme at all!

      • Alycia Swift

        Or go back to themes from the areas they are filming in. Pearl Islands and Cook Islands – weren’t they both pirate related. Fiji has got to have some interesting history.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    Fuck this reunion. They didn’t talk to Cydney. She was arguably the best player of the season, and she went out in a fucking firemaking challenge. HOW DO YOU NOT TALK TO CYDNEY?!

    • DrVanNostrand

      She was the best, but I mean you had to make time for some Lady Gaga wannabe and Drew fucking Carey. You know, priorities.

      • VoicOff

        Sia isn’t a Lady Gaga wannabe, but yeah, wtf was that about ?

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I didn’t even know who that was.

          • sharculese

            Australian singer. Famous for not showing her face in public.

          • Alycia Swift

            Writes stuff for other people. Was a mentor on the Voice (and still showed her face at that point). Had a weird video of her song with Shia LeBeauf (sp?).

          • Hornacek
          • VoicOff

            You must not be a millenial

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I’m pretty sure that I’m one of the older folks around here.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I’m pretty sure you are too haha

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Do my tweetering skills give me away?

          • Purplerockmatt

            I think you alluded to it a few weeks ago

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Memory is the first thing to go.

          • VoicOff

            (i have no idea how old you are, this was just a joke on the theme of next season. This is the internet, no one knows if you are a dog)

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            If I were a dog I’d be three-hundred and eight in people years and I would STILL be perplexed about how the jury voted tonight!

          • Alycia Swift

            You and me both. I was thinking = GenerationX – I’m not part of that. At least I don’t think I am. MTV started actually before that generation.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I have no idea who she is. I just saw the dumb wig and pointed to the only other pop star I know famous for wearing dumb shit.

          • VoicOff

            She is a song writer and singer. She wrote a bunch of banger for most well-known pop star (Beyoncé, Rihanna, that crowd). She also released several albums in her own name, and many well known songs inclunding Breath Me (the song of the 6-feet-under finale) and Chandelier.

            She hides her face either to keep some privacy, à la Daft Punk, or because she has a weird illness on top of that? I am not sure.

            I like her work.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Also she once sang during a wedding scene in Australian soap opera Home and Away.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Privcay and Grave’s Disease, IIRC. She’s also much older than you’d think a pop star would be. I like her albums. I do not like her reunion appearances.

          • VoicOff

            Not a big fan either, i think you can sense it from other comments i posted

          • VoicOff

            She’s 40, that’s like, only five year older than Beyoncé. Not that old. She’s not Ariana Grande or anything but hey.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            More in terms of like, when she broke out onto the mainstream. Beyonce was a teenager when Destiny’s Child got started. Just providing context; I think it’s great she finally got mainstream success, she’s obviously a very talented song writer. Horrible judge of behavior during a live TV taping though.

    • tocantins

      Maybe that was Jeff’s way to get back at her for voting for Michelle, haha.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed in her. How can someone so fun and entertaining vote for a cream cheese and mayo sandwich on wonder bread?

        • Do we know that for sure?

          • DrVanNostrand

            Wiki says she did. Aubry only got the Brain votes. Kicking someone off the jury didn’t even matter.

          • That would have been nice to have gotten that from the show. I figured Aubry may have lost her vote after her answer to that question (which was her weakest part).

          • DrVanNostrand

            I thought it was a perfectly fine answer: I voted for you because I couldn’t vote for Michele, and that’s the point in the game where you have to do what you have to do. You just never know how that’s going to go over. As disappointed as I am, Cydney’s was the Michele vote that made most sense to me.

          • But, Aubry didn’t answer the question directly. Cyd’s question was “Were you going to vote for me as soon as you walked into TC?”

          • andythesaint

            Proving Cydney to be the most recent in a long string of bitter final jury members. Because how you can be upset at the person who you just tried to vote out for voting you out to save themselves, I don’t know. Well, I do. It’s called being bitter.

          • I cried at the end of the fire-making challenge because they would have been a fun Final 2 since they were such a great duo. It just seemed so weird that Cydney went with Michele instead of Aubry.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yeah, that bumpuzzled me. Sure if Cyd had lost to Tai in fire then maybe she could be pissed at Aubry but she voted for Aubry. The answer should be “look Cyd, you voted for me too, you know if Michele hadn’t won immunity it would have been her but you and I both wanted to sit at the end next to Tai so we had to go for each other. You were just the biggest threat left.”

          • Alycia Swift

            She pretty close said that. But Cydney wanted – “I shoud have taken myself out and not do what you were trying to do. Save myself.”

          • Alycia Swift

            Yep. And if the situation was reversed, would Aubry have been bitter?

          • andythesaint

            Maybe.

          • I don’t think she would have been bitter. I want to believe that Aubry would respect gameplay above all else.

          • andythesaint

            We all want to believe.

          • Alycia Swift

            What boggles the mind is if the situation had been reversed, Cyndy would have wanted the jury to vote for the same moves since she and Aubry played mostly together. Yes, there were differences (Cyndey turned on Jason and Scott, for instance.) But she would have been asking the jury to vote for her mostly the same game. And Aubry probably would have voted for her.

          • DrVanNostrand

            To quote James, Cydney was being a “bitter Betty”. I understand her bitterness more than most of the other people up there, but I think you’re right on both counts.

    • Ms_Woozah

      I’m still so mad about that.

  • DrVanNostrand

    I’ve been thinking about it a little more and I think my disappointment boils down to this: Scot went on about how Aubry’s game started coming apart towards the end, and Michele’s just shot through the roof. I saw no evidence of either of those things. I have no idea what he was talking about. Is it as simple as what was suggested below, that people will go to great lengths to avoid voting for the person that voted them out, unless they absolutely have no choice? I feel like I have to do some research on this question.

    • Max_Jets

      This was the biggest head scratcher. Aubry showed weakness at different points in the season but we were not shown her getting weaker as the game progressed.

      • Alycia Swift

        If anything, she got stronger.

        • Hornacek

          We need a montage of Aubry with the Rocky theme playing.

    • Purplerockmatt

      Nothing about this was justified, we saw no evidence behind this. As a lawyer all i can think seeing is runaway jury, it will get overturned on appeal

      • Alycia Swift

        Lol. Same here.

      • Hornacek

        Unfortunately, the Supreme Court is kicking everything back until they get their Scalia replacement.

    • jackdw97

      Michele’s game definitely improved, but only because she had literally done nothing before taking out Julia (and I give Aubry much, much more credit for that one). Aubry managed to make it to the end despite being the clear strategic threat, so I also don’t see how her game came apart. Michele got to the end and got the jury to vote for her, which makes her a “deserving” winner, but how exactly she got those votes remains mind-boggling.

      Also, even though some recent seasons have had weak winners, most relatively recent juries have done a good job of rewarding the best player who made it to the end. Tonight really threw me off.

      • Diego Armando

        According to Julia, casting a vote on Julia to go with the group instead of putting a throwaway vote on Tai is the greatest move in the history of Survivor.

        • AubrysWinnersEdit

          Julia’s vote didn’t really surprise me. I was expecting Scot and Jason to recognize that Aubry played a better game (which is why I’m really curious as to what we didn’t see that may have inspired Scot’s odd speech). Cydney’s vote confuses me the most, however.

    • Prom King

      That was just Scot attempting to rationalize to himself why he was voting for a nonentity like Michele instead of a player he had repeatedly praised like Aubry. In the end, as always, jurors vote for who they like more – they just have to figure out a way to justify it to themselves.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I think they also vote for who they can handle beating them. If Michele is a nice person everyone liked on a personal level putting the game aside then for these macho idiots it’s better for her to win than a nerdy woman or a gay refugee.

    • hardcöre umlaut

      I think it comes down to this: Scot and Jason, the macho men that they are, could not handle admitting that they were outplayed by a nerdy woman. They could handle giving it to a woman who never wronged them, even though she didn’t do much. Like you, I saw absolutely zero evidence to back up Scot’s claim. I actually thought Jason would vote for Aubry, given the huge praise he gave her the night that Scot was voted out. Jason has also said that Russell Hantz is the only person to play the game correctly- in that case why did he essentially vote for Natalie White to win (this is NOT to disparage either Nat W or Michele OR say that Aubry is akin to Russell, just an inconsistency that I see in Jason’s logic).

      There are no doubts in my mind that if you had Nick or Neal play the same game that Aubry did, that Scot and Jason would be okay voting for him.

      • Kemper Boyd

        YES FRIEND. (Nice to see you I totally searched GT this morning to talk to you). I answered someone else saying that this is emotional game play pretending to be rational gameplay. They don’t want to lose to a woman like Aubry.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          I am planning on posting a GT discussion thread so please check back later today or tomorrow! I just stopped posting live threads mid-season because 1) not many people were showing up and 2) I like to watch without commenting or tweeting and then discuss after. I am sure the good people of GT will have some thoughts on the treatment of the female finalists!

          • Kemper Boyd

            I find this one hard, I don’t know whether I’m seeing sexism where there isn’t some or it’s a form where men just default to the pretty social girl over the awkward nerd.

          • hardcöre umlaut

            I think it’s fair to read sexism into it. I’m not saying Scot and Jason (even Nick, actually, since he placed such a big emphasis on playing the game while he was in there- I thought he might legitimately be a swing vote for Aubry despite spending the whole game with Michele) are sexist, but I do think unconscious sexism played into their unwillingness to vote for Aubry. I also think it played into their bullying of Alecia like you brought up earlier this season- were they more willing to treat her like shit because she was seen as weak, a feminine quality? It also brings into question the jury’s treatment of Cydney. When she was making fire, the jury was unabashedly rooting for Aubry (or, at least, that is what the edit showed us). Would Jason have been rooting so hard for Aubry if her opponent wasn’t a black woman? We’ll never know, but I have my suspicions…

          • Diego Armando

            I suspect they were angry at Cydney because Cydney screwed them over by voting out Nick.

          • sharculese

            Someone on the AVC comments threw a tantrum last night because people suggested sexism may have played into the result here. I think I might be done with that comment section, since pretty much everyone I want to talk to has migrated over here at this point.

          • I have another possible angle (even though I’m not ruling out either theory you two laid out): Aubry’s answer to Cydney at that final tribal council basically positioned her as being “the Cydney that made it to FTC”.

            And judging by how insanely, obstinately petty Jason, Scot, and Julia were towards Cydney in her Ponderosa video, maybe that solidified the votes of those three for Michele.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Still so dumb. SO DUMB. I think it’s probably a bit of a combination of everything including them being man babies.

          • sharculese

            Kyle – thinks he’s a Russell, doesn’t know he’s a Troyzan.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            This is my favorite thing you’ve ever said. I want it embroidered on a cross-stitch pattern and framed.

          • sharculese

            Awww. Thanks.

          • Alycia Swift

            The problem I have with Jason and Scot being obstinately petty is that they were indeed replacing her in their alliance with either Tai and/or Nick. She just caught them. Julia I can’t figure out. She had no ties to Cydney that we saw. It was Michele.

          • sharculese

            I think we’ve learned at this point that if you put Scot and Kyle together for a minute their m.o. defaults to “obstinately petty.”

          • this bear is tops blooby

            That’s what Cydney concluded at Ponderosa.

          • It can be two things, however it may be more the latter.

        • Out of curiosity what is GT?

      • Alycia Swift

        You hit it on the head.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          I am so glad there are people here who agree, phew! I had to back away from r/survivor last night because this viewpoint was getting so much pushback. Kemperboyd actually suggested I hang out here to discuss Survivor because y’all are more social justice minded 🙂

          • sharculese

            We’re the chill friendly hangout spot for liberally-minded Survivor fans. It may be a niche, but it’s a pretty fun niche.

          • We can also agree to disagree in a friendly manner.

          • Alycia Swift

            I have found that is true. I used to post on RHAP … not a lot but some … but some of the posts and arguments just got to be too much. While I still read there, I don’t post as much. I enjoy it here.

          • sharculese

            RHAP is an okay community that has two persistent trolls. Although, actually, I can’t remember the last time I saw Anthony whatever, the weird angry libertarian, post, so really it’s just damnbueno and his obsessive need to be right about a game show.

          • Alycia Swift

            There’s a few more. But yes.

      • Ms_Woozah

        This is exactly what I was discussing with some friends last night. We’ve seen these guys say they expect certain things out of women, it’s really no surprise they went with the inoffensive pretty one with no blood on her hands who cried and begged at the very end.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          Yes. As someone said above, the jury vote is ultimately a popularity contest which most people call “social game.” Who do you expect to win a popularity contest, a beautiful woman or a nerdy woman?

        • this bear is tops blooby

          I sort of got the feeling she was doing it for sympathy, especially after Tai had that moving speech, since her closing speech felt more self-serving and Tai is just a sensitive soul. But yeah, it did sort of come off as begging now that I think of it.

      • andythesaint

        You know, I really expected better from guys whose initial response to being beat was to hide tools and douse fires.

        • Alycia Swift

          You made me laugh out loud in my office. Luckily I’m by myself.

      • DrVanNostrand

        It’s totally inconsistent. It’s also inconsistent with his claim that he values having strong female role models for his daughters.

  • EmAndScoutInBK

    I’m not even mad about the Michele win. I’m a firm believer in whoever wins deserve to wins. I just can’t deal with “messing with the jury” and this gdawful lack of explanation. FUCK. GET OFF MY LAWN.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Yeah, I can’t bring myself to be mad that Michele won. It wasn’t the ending I wanted but if you win you deserved it. The Jury thing sucks hard. I totally get why Neal was such a prick on twitter now.

  • gouis

    I’m sad Andy isn’t with us now. He’s the hero we need and the hero we deserve.

    • andythesaint

      The problem is that I’m a really good loser.

      Lots of practice.

      • gouis

        No! Don’t give in!

        • andythesaint

          Well the good news is, I usually can get riled up again in the 24 hours between watching the show and podcasting.

      • Kemper Boyd

        So Canadian…

  • Diego Armando

    I think I still won the Outcast League. That is the only happy thing that happened lately. I can’t watch the reunion show yet. I still am too angry and Michele seriously sucks at explaining why she won.

    • “Wait…I was on the show???? I must have missed my scene, I was probably on my phone.” – Michele Fitzgerald, millennial

    • DrVanNostrand

      She was a master of the social game. Don’t you remember all those confessionals of people talking about how much they loved Michele?

      (Footage not found)

      • Purplerockmatt

        they had to use aubry footage in her winner’s reel

    • Alkanarra

      The only happy thing that happened to me is when I got to virtually yet fruitlessly criticize a beautiful woman who just won $1,000,000 and the validation of her peers. I’m not all that happy right now.

      • Alkanarra

        That and watching gouis slowly implode comment-by-comment.

  • Sylvisual

    Like seriously, CBS art department, can you not hit your “next season logo unveiling” deadlines? Two reunions in a row where your first draft got shown on air.

  • Sylvisual

    How much do we want to bet that Debbie contaminated the Ponderosa water and screwed up the jury vote?

    • gouis

      It was probably Joe.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Maybe everyone just hated the Brains? It’s as plausible as anything else I can think of.

    • Hornacek

      She didn’t contaminate it. She noticed it was contaminated, but didn’t tell anyone.

  • Diego Armando

    Okay no new review tonight. I am too pissed to write down anything other than a screed. I will have something up sometime tomorrow.

  • gouis

    BRO, I KNOW.

    • gouis

      thats all i got

    • DrVanNostrand

      Do you need to be carried?

      • gouis

        I need to be swaddled.

  • sharculese

    It was really weird how this season ended with nobody winning it. Has that ever happened before?

    • gouis

      I heard something similar happened in Gabon. Stay tuned for offseason coverage!

      • Sylvisual

        It’s funny, that season may now be MORE entertaining when I watch it.

      • DrVanNostrand

        The thing is, Bob was terrible at Survivor and Gabon was awful, but I loved Bob. I loved him making idols. I loved him building random shit at camp. I loved him doing a pelvic thrust when he found out he was competing for an herb garden. I’d rather watch half a dozen Bob’s on a season than one more goddamn Michele.

        • gouis

          I’m a physicist so I have yet another reason to love Bob.

          • sharculese

            Physicists feel kinship with high school physics teachers? I teach calculus but I’d never expect a real mathematician to see me as one of them.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Bob is bottom of my winner rankings but high up on my list of favourite winners, because Bob is a god damn delight.

        • Alycia Swift

          And making idols is a move.

  • gouis

    We’re all missing how Tai actually gave a decent FTC performance and was yet still shut out. Really thought he had Amanda potential and stuck to his guns.

    • I think though that he relied on the Scot move to carry the day. Had he talked more about his other moves, he could have won some more votes.

      • Purplerockmatt

        his best answer was his answer to Jason, but people were having nothing from him, and yet they asked all their questions as if it were Tai v Michele or Tai v Aubry and not Aubry v Michele

        • Yeah. It’s odd that no one asked all three of them a similar question.

          • Alycia Swift

            Or that we saw questions from any one to all three. The only one was a statement by Nick.

            I miss the days when FTC as about a half hour (or at least 20 minutes. This one was about 10).

          • prettyboyprobst

            Agreed, Nick foreshadowed not every finalist getting questions from everyone, but there is no way of knowing how many of the jurors left someone out from their questions.

            Btw, it was about 17 minutes without the reveal, I just watched it again.

        • andythesaint

          I think that hurt Aubry. She wasn’t given opportunities to take down Michele. In fact, she had to manufacture her own by interrupting and asking a question. Not sure it would have mattered, but it would’ve been gratifying.

          • sharculese

            That was the best moment of that FTC, though, and it sucks that it wasn’t rewarded.

      • prettyboyprobst

        I agree that more of these details would have made his argument even better, but I think there were no votes to be won for Tai at this TC.

        • Hey, if Courtney Yates and Susie Smith can win votes at FTC, Tai could as well.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I agree he did great, but his gameplay just meant he was drawing dead.

    • Kingoftonga

      In a weird way, I felt he had the strongest closing argument. Unique to his personality, making a good case for his strengths, and not the standard “outplay, outwit, outlast” structure that’s been done to death.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I hate that structure. This isn’t a court of law. There are no jury instructions. You can vote however the fuck you want (which is also true in a court of law, though judges can try to bully you into believing otherwise).

      • I was so disappointed when Aubry went with “outwit, outplay, outlast”. You’re better than that, Aubry! (Though at that point I think she was grasping at straws because she may have felt the tide turn against her.)

  • sharculese

    In case nobody else noticed. There was a shot of praying mantis in this episode. Because the Survivor editors are obviously lurkers on the Purp.

    • Sylvisual

      There were also scorpions. Because what tonight needed was more subtle CBS cross-promotion.

    • Ms_Woozah

      Totally caught that!

    • Purple Rock Emma

      Bow down, bitches.

  • VoicOff

    I wasn’t has invested in this season because i was too busy, for once, but it’s still feel like it’s coming out of nowhere… anyway don’t quit this liveblog. It would be sad.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I meant quit as in stop for the night. I’ll do it next season

  • Kingoftonga

    So…would Michelle still have won if Joe hadn’t been medevaced at final 5?

    • Purplerockmatt

      I think she would have been the target at 5 and 4 so she would have had to win out

      • So, doing my Survivor math real quick, the F4 reward challenge was probably the F5 IC, so Aubry could have easily won that even with Joe in the mix. I think Aubry would have gotten rid of either Michele or Cydney there
        F4 IC would have remained the F4 IC: Michele wins if she is there.
        F3 RC becomes F3 IC: Michele wins if she is still there.

        • Purplerockmatt

          I think that is how it would have worked yes

        • prettyboyprobst

          Why would it be a F2 then? And why wouldn’t they have a RC at F4? Given that we got to see a challenge with four lanes, I think it’s reasonable to assume that was the F4 RC all along. Sure, they could have torn down one lane, but why do that if you have a perfectly fine RC for 4 people built already, as they probably did have.

          • I think when I wrote that, I hadn’t thought about how the advantage challenge was just “lying around”. I think that particular challenge was thrown together to prevent a FTC tie.

  • Diego Armando

    John and Andy: Refuse to eat crow. This result sucked and you were right for questioning its likelihood of occurring. We need someone to vent our rage.

    • Purplerockmatt

      If I was on I would. I just be like I wasn’t wrong the show was wrong fuck you show! Also guys earn that explicit rating!

  • corndogshuffle

    I’ll be referencing another season of Survivor to describe how I feel about this one because I’m sort of at a loss for words right now.

    This reminds me of The Amazon. Really good season overall with lots of twists and turns, could have contended for my favorite season of all time (certainly could have been top five). Shit winner who’s game wasn’t really backed up by the edit. I genuinely don’t understand how this happened, in particular I don’t understand what Scot was talking about. Still a strong season but man was this a major let down.

  • Alkanarra

    Also, that “vote a jury member out” thing would be a lot more effective if they didn’t then immediately go back to Ponderosa with the rest of the jurors and have an added reason to shit talk you all night. I assure you Michele didn’t shut up Neal like she thought she did…

    • Diego Armando

      That was a reward I don’t think you should win. It will just piss people off.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Jeff said that they were gonna sequester him from the others. So not another peep from Neil.

      But luckily another poop from Joe. Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

    • I thought that he was put into “sequester” away from all of the other jurors.

      • Alkanarra

        Ah, OK. That’s much more reasonable then.

        So yes, I suppose props to Michele for picking the exact right person to remove.

        • Other Scott

          SHE NEARLY TOOK OUT SCOT, HER BIGGEST SUPPORTER!

          She was not a great Survivor player, in my opinion obviously.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I wonder how many people on that jury watched this season and thought “I’ve made a huge mistake”

          • Other Scott

            None. That’s not how the mind works.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Arrested Development disagrees

          • sharculese

            I actually thought Nick at the finale looked like he really wished he would have voted for Aubry.

          • VoicOff

            He clearly wouldn’t have voted for Michelle and has no reason to vote for Tai.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I read that scene totally differently to you. I thought this was some of her better gameplay, asking each of the others who they want her to take out tells her who they think won’t be voting for them. It let’s the player with the vote the chance to scope out what your opponents thinks.

          • andythesaint

            I think that’s definitely a way that could have played out. The issue is that the show didn’t reveal it to us that way. They didn’t have a confessional of Michele telling us she was using their campaigning against them. It made it look like she was just agreeing with what people were saying.

            Which is the issue with the season: it wasn’t interested in showing Michele as a thoughtful, active player.

        • andythesaint

          Props to Michele for listening to Tai’s recommendation. Michele is one of the all-time greats at agreeing to other people’s decisions.

  • tocantins

    The only good thing to come out of this is that they will certainly think twice before doing this “vote the jury out” again. And I’m pretty sure no one in this jury is coming back on Survivor any time soon.

    • What about Debbie?

      • Is that a deliberate Addams Family Values reference?

    • Alycia Swift

      Debbie is among the candidates for Season 34. So are Tai, Aubry and strangely, Peter.

      • tocantins

        But wasn’t the Debbie the second vote for Aubrey? So I guess she is ok.

      • sharculese

        I argued this in the thread on casting thread, but, to reiterate, Peter is a great choice to bring back; he’s perfect pre-merge villain. As Andy was pointing out constantly during the Second Chances vote, you don’t just want people you like on an All-Stars season, because then people you like go out early and you get sad. Peter is a person you know is going to go out early because he’s so bad at Survivor, and it’s always going to be satisfying to watch it happen.

  • prettyboyprobst

    Reading through the comments I have so much to say, but I’m not taking the bait. Instead of drawing the ire of everyone, I’ll let you go through the stages alone and get some sleep instead.

    But there is one thing that keeps coming up: Michele’s win wasn’t explained enough. – That may be true for some viewers, but it was explained some and I doubt most of you would have enjoyed getting more of Michele’s journey at the cost of the stories we did get to see.

    • Other Scott

      Explain it then prettyboyprobst. We are all ears.

      • sharculese

        If I had to guess, it goes like this – Michele skated to the end, won some key immunities when she had to, and benefited from a bitter jury (I think leading with Nick’s speech was a way of signaling that this jury was super bitter.)

        It’s just that that’s a boring, unsatisfying story to cap off what has otherwise been a very dynamic season.

        • Other Scott

          The jury didn’t really seem bitter though. The person who had the most reason to be bitter voted Aubry.

          • Purplerockmatt

            this is what is killing me

          • Alycia Swift

            It looked like tribal was severely edited and the bitter part, except for Scot, was taken out.

        • I’m not sure it was a “bitter” jury; rather a……….”dumb” one.

          YEAH I SAID IT

      • prettyboyprobst

        If you can’t wait to take a look from a different perspective, you can always click on my name to sift through some older posts, although I probably didn’t write about everything and was wrong some, too.

        But from waht I’ve read here in this thread you’re (surprisingly) on a good way already. For now I’ll echo the thoughts Kent McK directed in his comments at you.

    • Well, you’re half right.

    • Alkanarra

      In fairness, I’m ready to give Michele some credit, especially the last few episodes, and really her only problem is being boring. My qualm isn’t with her, but with the show really making it seem like Aubry was winning and with spoilers infecting the end result weeks ago. If the end hadn’t been tipped off, I wouldn’t have been so stubborn to accept this turnaround.

    • andythesaint

      I admire your restraint. But I do invite you to explain it later. And by “explain”, I don’t mean “the show featured her in confessionals an inordinate amount”. That’s a edit-based reading on them prepping a certain subset of the audience for a winner. I’m less interested in “the show is telling us Michele is the winner”. I’m interested in “the show is telling us WHY Michele is the winner”.

      • prettyboyprobst

        I had a long day, so I won’t be able to give a satisfying* explanation now (*or ever), but I’ll give some quick points pertaining to your interests now and build on them tomorrow or in the next days. And I still have to rewatch the finale, as I missed a lot during the live-watch.

        First of all, I don’t think the show wants to tell the viewers every year ahead of time who’s going to win. Sure, they will do so, if they feel it’s the best way to tell the story of a season, but given we had so many of these types of seasons in the modern era (Nat.Anderson is the only exception I can think of since … Denise Stapley?), they really need to go a different route every once in a while, or risk becoming predictable and dropping ratings. They still insert little bits and pieces so we can make sense of it after the fact (some of this stuff is what edit-people obsess about and what you don’t want to hear about), but I think we were meant to think Aubry has the best chances and to root for her.
        Stephen made a good point about it at KIA, saying that we were spoiled for a long time with really good winners during these last seasons, but there is no guarantee that the person shown to be the best player wins, and we need to be reminded of that from time to time.

        Of course, that doesn’t mean that they want us to think any bum could win Survivor, so here is some of what they’ve shown from Michele to counter that sentiment:
        M was always seen above the hardships of the season. While other tribes fighted within themselves, broke down physically and mentally and cannibalized each other, Beauty was living the good life, getting along with each other and the conditions, thriving in challenges and in camp life. With the swap and the merge come moments of gameplay and character building (carried bro; rendering the sabotage useless by being upbeat and persistent, being left out for sticking to her strongest ally for the Scot vote followed by her making strong bonds at the reward; voting out said ally to strengthen these bonds, getting protected from her vote-out as a direct result of these bonds; challenge success, which I think is big with many viewers, especially if you do it “when it counts”; strong performances at TC – you know, in front of the jury), that were widely disregarded around here, because they didn’t show spectacular gameplay or didn’t warrant the Michele-hype elsewhere, or simply because of selective perception. But it still was on the show.

        Overall, she got painted as somewhat of an independent entity, that had to fight hard for her place at FTC, which of course goes great with that point Probst drives home every season (did he this time? Don’t know but it doesn’t really matter, just like “fire represents life” the concept of Survivor as described by Jeffy is ingrained into every viewers brain at this point) about Survivor being that ultimate social experiment, where you have to vote people out, only for these same peoplablahblahblah…
        In short, it shouldn’t come as big surprise to attentive viewers that Michele’s game looked much better for the people on the jury benches, than for people falling in love with Aubry’s confessionals and getting bored by OneL’s.

        That being said, they are still some head-scratchers in the edit, like why not show us how much Julia disliked Aubry. That would have gone a long way in making sense of the final vote, which brings me back to my first point, that we were never meant to expect a Michele-win to begin with.

  • Hornacek

    Random thoughts (finale):

    What the hell kind of jacket is Jason wearing?

    Being suddenly told that Michele’s game is all about loyalty this late in the season is like in the first BvBVB when they waited until the last episode to tell us that Woo’s game was all about honor.

    Tai giving a confessional with Mark on his shoulder is another item crossed off my Mark The Chicken Bucket List.

    Wait, the reward includes steak? Anyone in Production remember why Joe got evacuated?

    Should we be having these people run while holding a machete in this challenge?

    Jeff drops plenty of hints that this is not the final challenge, but no one picks up on them.

    “Full-tilt boogie.”

    Michele wins the challenge. “Nobody saw that coming.” Except the Truthers!!!

    Both Aubry and Cydney mention their fire-making skills. Hmm.

    Oh man what if Aubry’s flame burns Cydney’s rope?

    Abry wins the fire challenge. She cries. Cydney cries. Tai cries. Is this the season with the most crying?

    Did we ever see Cydney make fire? Maybe she should have been trying with Alecia for some of that 6 hours. And did Michele sabotage Cydney by telling her she didn’t need to practice making fire?

    Cydney was right – she wasn’t going to no final tribal council with no damn Tai.

    Another challenge, so it’s a final two … oh SNAP! Jeff, you sly dog!

    Hmm, I’m not sure if I like this reward or not.

    The Dexterity challenge gets a second chance.

    So Michele is the one that’s gonna tell the jury that she’s kicking one of them out, not Jeff. Will the rest of them like this? Maybe it was good that Aubry didn’t win this.

    Jason and Scot’s back-and-forth while Michele is talking is great. “Sounds like you.” “Good-bye.”

    Poor Neal. Medically evacuated and then kicked off the jury. For a second I thought Aubry had Jedi-mind-tricked Michele into choosing Scot.

    Yes! Mark’s going to tribal!

    “Calm down, Mark.”

    Scot thinks Michele played better than Aubry. Uh, ok?

    Final words: Aubry is damn proud, Tai wants to buy the world a Coke, and Michele is proud but sad.

    Jeff says good-bye to Mark. Anothe bucket list item crossed off.

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? Ugh, a great season dragged down in the standings by a very disappointing winner.

    • sharculese

      The jacket was Kyle announcing that he never bothered to develop a personal style because “I wear loud things” was a close enough approximation. It’s a thing you see lots of dudes who have no sense of color doing.

      • Hornacek

        It’s Bounty Hunter Chic.

      • It is almost as if the guy with an anus tattoo has no sense for fashion. Who would have guessed?

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I like to think that he met his wife when they noticed they had matching tattoos.

        • sharculese

          I’m almost more put off by the gauges, which were hideous by themselves but also completely clashed with the jacket. Kyle Jason – winner of the Rodney LaVoie Memorial Award for worst attempt by a dude to be fashion forward at the reunion.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Rodney just looked like he accidentally bought his clothes from the children’s department.

          • sharculese

            I’m Rodney’s height, although he’s got a sturdier build than I do, and I actually do have to get suits from the boys department. The bigger issues were that 1.) his suit was ugly, 2.) it wasn’t cut right, and 3.) the tie did not really work with it.

          • Alycia Swift

            And it was a terrible color- like a 70s leisure suit.

          • sharculese

            I have an orange paisley tie with blue accents that I would consider wearing with suit that was similar to, but not identical to that one – a darker blue with pin stripes and, of course, actually cut to fit me (yes, I sometimes base clothing choices on, “but what tie does this go with?”). But that thing was just a mistake on so many levels.

          • I laugh at Rodney’s reunion attire because of the fact that he was clearly dressed by Joaquin.

          • Alycia Swift

            As bad as it was, didn’t the rest of the guys wear tshirts, jeans and for some flip flops and looked totally sloppy.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Are you forgetting the early-new school men wearing ill fitting waistcoats era?

      • Alycia Swift

        Drew Carey did it.

        • sharculese

          Drew Carey was just a case of a dude who had never been taught not to wear that tie with that shirt. (Which dear god, that was heinous, too.)

          Kyle actively chose to do those things because that’s what he’s convinced himself is cool.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      *Abry wins the fire challenge. She cries. Cydney cries. Tai cries. Is this the season with the most crying?*

      There was a lot of crying when Skupin fell in the fire. Also a lot from the kids whose lives he touched.

      • sharculese

        Let’s be fair, here. The porn charges are one thing, but so far there’s been no suggestion that Skupin molested a kid.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          True, but there are a lot of children who are affected by his actions. His kids, the kids he coached and most importantly the kids who are forced/tricked into the porn he helped himself to. But yeah, maybe not the best comment.

          • sharculese

            I agree 100% that child pornography is a not a victimless crime, just trying to be scrupulously fair about how we talk about the allegation against him.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You are correct, of course. It was a cheap joke. I should probably edit out my comment but I’ll leave it as a reminder to myself that not everything that pops into my head needs to come out.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I actually think your comment might be fair. You mentioned the “lives he touched”. Child pornography touches a lot of kids’ lives in exactly the way you implied.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Well, my “joke” didn’t help any of those kids, either.

    • Alycia Swift

      I wonder if just letting Marc go doomed him. He was domesticated after all.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’m putting on my old man hat now. Nothing annoys me more than seeing 80’s and 90’s fashion and hairstyles making a comeback. I was growing up during that time, and it was shit then, and it’s shit now.

    • prettyboyprobst

      Good catch on the steak reward, that alone deserves an upvote!

      “Should we be having these people run while holding a machete in this challenge?”

      We clearly shouldn’t, but what’s worse, they needlessly allowed them to jump of the beam, even if that means dropping the tiles. The result is people scrambling on the ground to get the pieces they dropped left and right, while other contestants come running out of control and jumping off machete first, with their eyes firmly sticking to the Machete and not looking what’s ahead. What were the Kirhoffers thinking?! The challenge would have been much safer (and harder) if they had to balance the tiles until they reach the table.

  • I have always been a bit meh on Michele and that does not change with her win. While she does have some good moments, the editors were clearly handcuffed into giving her a story but the edit and the FTC story just do not match up. I never really saw her as an underdog, except for towards the end. The relationships that she built were presented as shaky (except for Cyd). I wonder if on a rewatch Michele’s edit makes more sense.

    • Diego Armando

      I honestly have no idea how it would be any different on rewatch. She is present and I do think there were moments where the show tried to make it look like she was making a move, but it just sucked. I don’t dislike Michele as a person, I just find her to be boring and seemingly spectacularly undeserving of her reward.

    • Black Dynamite

      I get what Michele did well. She won a key immunity. She was able to slip back with the majority after the Scot vote. She had a strong bond with Cydney, Julia and Nick. What I’m interested on a.rewatch is where Aubry went wrong. I think the easy answer may be the right one. Bitter jury

      • Purplerockmatt

        but they didn’t seem bitter, that is what I don’t get

        • Black Dynamite

          I admit I’m grasping for straws here.

        • corndogshuffle

          I though in general they seemed the opposite of bitter. I honestly think the only way to describe this ending is “huh”. I’ve never been this confused over a winner, and in a season where I have almost without exception thought the editing was fantastic, I’m now wondering why the editing didn’t present the winner as a viable candidate.

          Is Michele really this boring? Did she really have so little control over her own fate? Was her only game play actually “well, you weren’t a bitch so”. It’s one thing to have a season like The Amazon where it’s obvious why MvE was not liked and couldn’t win in Final Tribal. We were shown nothing to suggest that Aubry should lose in a 5-2 blowout.

        • Kent McK

          Yeah it’s weird. They didn’t dislike Aubrey, they just liked Michelle more than her. It’s like gameplay didn’t factor into the vote at all.

          • Alycia Swift

            It’s the brawn going with the beauty (like Jason said way back though back then it was beauty flocking to brawn) instead of the brain who outsmarted them.

          • Holy shit, you are right. The brawns and beauties were pissed off that their merge target beat them.

          • Kemper Boyd

            This to me is a flaw in the BvBvB, when you separate tribes by some kind
            of innate quality it creates definitive lines in players’ minds. It
            makes them value their own qualities far more than a normal season and
            makes them less likely to vote for someone outside that.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Not sure this holds up as I haven’t seen most of the “Jury speaks”-videos (listened to some podcasts, though), but it could be that, from what the jurors got to see, Michele really did look just as strong or a stronger player than Aubry towards the end, as Scot and Jason stated at FTC.
            She really made her mark in TCs since the Julia vote-out, whereas Aubry, although an incredible rhetorician in her own right, was last seen as in control at that same vote. Aubry was at her best on the screen and in confessionals, but winning the firemaking challenge was seemingly all she did in the late game.

      • I fear that the rewatch may not provide us that answer. At least Samoa and HvV can easily show us why Russell lost. I can already predict Michele and Natalie White comparisons, but here is the difference: Natalie White made a pivotal move that give the Foa Foa 4 momentum. She used her personal relationships to have Galu get rid of one of their own. That was not a Russell move. Natalie also voted correctly at every tribal council, which is not a easy feat considering that she attended almost all of them.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Natalie found herself on the wrong side of the numbers. She was liked by everyone, and rode the biggest goat ever to the end. I understand if someone doesn’t find her a satisfying winner, but her story makes sense, and is consistent from beginning to end.

        • Alycia Swift

          I agree with your assessment but it still seems like she’s more like her than Parvati.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          I also think that the Nat W-Russell comparison is a bad one here because Aubry was not a Russell. She wasn’t an arrogant, aggro jerk. She was a woman who had a lot of control over the game. Of course, there is a certain type of man who will see a woman in control as an arrogant, aggro jerk, and there is not much Aubry can do about that, unfortunately.

          • That’s a great point. I think I walked into this flawed argument because I was trying to show the similarities and differences between the winners, not the runner-ups.

    • DrVanNostrand

      “While she does have some good moments…”

      Footage not found.

      • sharculese

        She didn’t need to be carried and got a hamburger.

        • Prom King

          Who would have guessed that all of those shots of Michele wolfing down her cheeseburger were actually part of a cunningly crafted Michele Winner Edit.

  • Hornacek

    Random thoughts (reunion):

    Tai mentioned Canada!!!

    Half of America (including Tai) is asking “What the hell is a Sia?”

    The last row of the jury is thinking “I’m not gonna get to talk because this woman with no face is eating up so much time.” Make that the last two rows.

    When did Drew Carey turn into Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys?

    Jeff goes back to the stage after advertising The Price is Right, and Sia is still there??? This is starting to get into the running for worst reunion ever.

    The reunion is half over and they’ve only talked to 3 people. Jeff, you don’t have to talk to everyone, but yikes.

    When Debbie is listing her jobs who said “water”? Whoever you are, thank you.

    No mention of the sabotage or the bullying. Boo!

    Those damn Millennials! Go Gen X!

    “If it takes me 7 years to do school, who cares? My parents are paying for it.” That’s it, I already hate the Millennials tribe.

    So Jeff only talked to 9 players? The fact that he didn’t talk to Cydney at all is a travesty. And no discussion of who voted for Michele and why. This may be the 2nd worst reunion behind the one where the non-jury wasn’t on stage. Or maybe it’s worse. This was really bad.

    See you all next season!

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      *Half of America (including Tai) is asking “What the hell is a Sia?”*

      At first I thought that he was winning some kind of small car.

      • Alycia Swift

        I was thinking – I want a scissor.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I thought that one of the bad guys from Big Trouble in Little China was in the audience!

    • Purplerockmatt

      that quote was from a Gen Xer about the millennials

      • DrVanNostrand

        The only people I hate more than millennials are those damn Gen Xers, with their MTV…. and that’s really all I know about them.

        • Scarlett3639

          We survived the Cola Wars. I saw things no child should see.

          • Maybe a challenge reward for the Gen Xers will be Crystal Pepsi or Surge!

      • Hornacek

        Thanks, corrected.

    • Hey, talking to half the cast is better than his normal average.

    • Alycia Swift

      Debbie did forget waitress at Red Lobster.

      When I saw Drew Carey all I thought was when did we stop trying to make clothes match?

    • bassmanxvi

      I was asking the same thing. Google agrees. When I typed “who is” the first suggestion was “sia”

      • Holy crap, I did too.

      • Whoa, that’s crazy. I get the same thing. Admittedly, Google is probably aware I’m a Survivor fan, though. So now I’m wondering if Sia is tops in that search for everyone else.

  • These Words

    It’s really Survivor’s biggest flaw. The winner is dependent on a jury of losers who too often base their decision on spite. There is no other explanation for this one. Aubry outplayed Scot and Jason. No way they could reward that, so they voted Michele. This was so fucking terrible. Great season, up until that final vote. I knew it would be close after that TC. Figured Michele had Julia, Scot and Jason’s votes. All she needed was Cydney or Nick to make it 4-3, and of course she got both of them to make it 5-2. Jesus Christ. Terrible.

    • Other Scott

      It’s not really a flaw. You need to understand the jury. They had a golden opportunity to vote out Michele at final 6 and instead went for jury no-chancer Jason. So yeah, Aubry lost it.

      • Ike1

        I don’t understand why people say Jason had no chance if he’d made it to the end. Two words: Autistic. Kid.

        His kid made him a huge threat. There’s no way to know for sure, but I suspect he could’ve won. He’s very charismatic and as he pointed out, he knows how to talk.

        • Other Scott

          No one has ever used external reasons for votes if the guy was a jerk though.

          Earl is one of the richest winners in history. Dreamz was a homeless guy.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yul v Ozzie is another great example. Ivy league educated lawyer v college drop out.

          • sharculese

            Yul is an interesting example in that he managed to get the heartstrings argument out first, leaving Ozzy to go “uh, yeah, I’d like to be a good example, too.”

          • Ike1

            Did anybody at the time know Earl (a hugely charismatic guy) was rich? Did they believe Dreamz was really homeless? I can’t remember it that well but Dreamz just seemed erratic and unstable, in addition to unlikable. Jason overdid the villain angle but was clearly very persuasive and his tribe mates believed him about the kid.

        • Alycia Swift

          Plus he had a good chance of winning immunities.

      • Alkanarra

        Ironic then that Tai’s squandered attempt to take out Michele with the double vote might have won Aubry the game. Bet that was a hard episode for her to watch.

      • These Words

        It’s a flaw when a deserving winner gets screwed because she outplayed the sore losers on the jury who refuse to vote for her to win.

        • Other Scott

          But other people have won doing that. You just need to make sure the people you’re bringing with you also helped to vote out the people on the jury, and Michele did not fit that criteria.

          • These Words

            I agree that she should have voted Michele out. I just don’t think Michele deserved to win over her, despite that “mistake.” I still love the show, but I just feel like sometimes it’s a complete crapshoot at the end.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Or were at least disliked in some other way by the jury. Someone who didn’t do much strategically but was well liked personally by everyone isn’t a goat.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I’m with you. Jury management is the winner’s responsibility. If you didn’t do it, you can’t blame anyone else. I call it the Russell Principle. This example was just annoying because they didn’t really set up a reason that we, the audience, could make sense of.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Hey Russell, nice to hear from you! Kidding aside, as Other Scott says, it’s not a flaw, it’s game mechanics. You have to get the jury and play to it. Jason would have gotten Scot’s vote, had they kept him over Michele and Aubry sat with him and Tai over Cydney she wins.

  • Side Character

    So this is what it’s like to have the person you’re cheering for lose.

    I tip my hat to Michele. She got the votes to win, and for that, she deserves to win. However, like many of the people commenting here, I am utterly baffled at how her win was presented for this season. I don’t have a problem with Michele winning; I have a problem with the editors not showing her game play enough to justify the jury’s decision.

    If Aubry didn’t earn the jury’s vote, we as an audience should know why she didn’t get/deserve their votes. If Aubry had pissed people off, and they were holding grudges against her, then show us that–and not just Scot’s jury speech, that alone doesn’t justify everyone else’s decision. We don’t care if it makes it more obvious who wins, it helps clarify and justify their voting. And if it’s not present in the FTC, then talk to them in the reunion about why they voted as they did. You know how many jury members got to talk about why they voted Michele? NONE.

    As a winner, Michele’s presence in this season has been underwhelming at best, and from what the show has given us, it did not seem like Aubry had rubbed people the wrong way–at least, it seemed like people respected her game. Maybe if/when I re-watch this season, knowing who wins, I can get a better perspective on how both Michele and Aubry were shown this season. As it stands, though, I have never been as unsatisfied with the ending of a Survivor season as I was with Kaoh Rong–hell, I even liked when Jenna and Amber won Amazon and All-Stars, respectively. If they remade this season showing more of Michele’s interactions with the other castaways, I might be okay with her winning. Showing Aubry do well in challenges, make strategic moves, and play a pretty good social game and revealing to us that she didn’t win, while showing barely any of those three aspects for Michele, and thus little reason for us to care about the winner? That is what upsets me. Man, I am getting too worked up over a reality TV show.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I am glad I have this support group tonight. I need this support group

      • Alycia Swift

        Me 2. I actually came home early from work for this. Usually I’m watching Survivor after 11 pm est. and I should go to sleep but can’t.

      • forever1267

        This is like Russell and Natalie, only Michelle seems even less deserving than Natalie.

        • Kemper Boyd

          And the others seem way more deserving that Russel. I was actively rooting for Natalie by the end of Samoa because of how bad Russell’s social play was and Mick was a complete nothing. This is totally different.

          • I’ll admit to being blind to Russell’s horrific social game because I was so entertained by his tactics in Samoa. But once I saw the result, it immediately made sense to me. That’s not the case here.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          And Aubry is far more deserving than Russell (and also wasn’t a huge asshole the whole season).

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’ve been in the tank for Aubry for weeks, and I don’t even care that she lost. Just anyone but fucking Michele.

    • Other Scott

      You’re asking them to edit something that’s not there. The game unfolded like we saw presented. And they voted Michele.

      It’s not a matter of the show having to change to accomodate us so we can understand it, it’s a matter of us having to change how we view the show so we can understand it.

      • That’s fair enough. I am just stumped by this result.

      • I think you’re both right. I think they didn’t tell the story of how Michele won and/or Aubry lost because they didn’t have the footage to support it. They didn’t have people (other than Michele) saying Michele was a real threat and had great social bonds until they were down to 5 players and you’re essentially forced to talk about everyone.

        • Purplerockmatt

          it just bothers me that they didn’t then have some of the reunion clear this result up

          • I’d hoped for that too, but assumed we wouldn’t get it.

          • As much as I hate the whole “what if” game, I think it would have been useful. I wonder if that is Probst saying that he does not like the winner.

          • Side Character

            Exactly. If the evidence of Michele’s win wasn’t present when they were filming, I want to know the jury’s reasoning behind why they voted for her. Even if it’s “I didn’t want Aubry to win” or “just fucking because”, that’s fine! But show us that! Talk about it at the reunion! Neither the season nor the reunion gave us any of that, and that is what is driving me nuts.

          • Alycia Swift

            And if you listen to certain podcasts, we will probably hear Jason and others making excusesduring the next week for the decision.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Jason was adamant that he voted ONLY on gameplay.

          • Alycia Swift

            I know bro.:). And my response to that is … Yeah, right.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Like Scot, the big tough guys are often the biggest babies as well.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yup. We’ve seen it time and time again.

          • sharculese

            He was also adamant that he knew everything that was going on in camp. Aaaaaaaaand… we know how that claim turned out.

          • Side Character

            I’d love to hear their excuses. It’s better than what we got on the season.

          • Alycia Swift

            Well Jason’s going to be on Max Dawson’s podcast sometime this week. Not sure I can stomach it. I can’t always get through that one normally,

          • Kemper Boyd

            I don’t listen because I can handle Corinne once a season and that is her Rhap cast preview because it’s fine when they aren’t people I’ve watched just profiles released. Beyond that I find her insufferable, Max is equally as awful.

    • Prom King

      I have to wonder if the editors found Michele’s win to be as inexplicable as many of us did, and so they just did what they could. Can’t show the evidence if there’s no evidence to show!

    • Crappy

      Don’t agree. Editors have bungled some seasons but I can see why they would struggle to draw up a coherent arc for Michele’s winner story. Even Julia said, that she was just a number for first half of the game if not more. And even then, they went out of their ways to draw up confessionals and sequences for her. Remember the ‘I don’t need to be carrier Bro’ confessional? That was some first class story manipulation since she very much needed to be carried at that point. Even after the merge, it does not look like they gave them anything. She pretty much went along with other people’s plans, that’s why they framed Nick vote out her perspective somewhat and then portrayed the Julia vote out as her ‘big move’. Even forgot about the moves, Michele’s narration is just so BORING. There is absolutely nothing there.
      Michele is pretty much a modern day boring version of Jenna Morasca and while Jenna did give editors some thing to work with, Michele gave nothing. This is basically Jenna beating RobC in a final 3 in Amazon. Even then editors would have struggled to pacify audiences regarding that decision.
      In the end, Stephen Fishbach pretty much has it right, survivor juries more often than not will award the win to the person they LIKE the most irrespective of the game they played. Some people to make themselves feel better just term that as having a great ‘SOCIAL GAME’. Well you can call winning a popularity contest, a social contest I suppose.

  • Other Scott

    Okay I’m slowly coming around to this.

    First off- why Michele won: Because the outsider of the major alliance always wins, unless the other options are completely untenable. Aubry beat every one of those people, Michele didn’t.

    Secondly- Should Aubry have won? No. Because the outsider always wins. If you want to win at final tribal, you need to make sure there’s no outsider or if there is, they’re a complete goat. Aubry had the opportunity to do that at final 6 and did not.

    Thirdly – Does it suck Michele won? Absolutely. Is Michele the best player on the season? No freaking way.

    Fourth – How did everyone know Michele was going to win? I have no earthly idea.

    • I’ve said this before – this season was filmed 18 months ago. That’s a big problem. You can’t put a season on a shelf for a year without stuff leaking, especially with people competing who ended up proving themselves as bigmouths on social media as the season aired.

    • The concern I have is that the answer to your final question is more than just “She got confessionals she shouldn’t have.”

      • Other Scott

        Yeah, that’s why I never bought the Michele train. Because their reasons seemed stupid. More confessionals than necessary can be explained by any number of things, and its not like they made Michele look super good with those other confessionals.

        So what was it? I know people will jump to spoilers, but everyone insists there wasn’t. So I just am lost.

        • You keep saying “everyone says there were no spoilers” like that means more than nothing.

          • Other Scott

            Well it does. You think every single person who looks for spoilers pretends they didn’t see anything and tries to pass it off as their own knowledge? There’s people who see spoilers, know about the spoilers, and reveal them to the general public after the fact.

          • Apparently there was a spoiler right in the noses of the Ponderosa viewers from Cambodia:

            According to Survivor Central on Twitter, “Oh dear lord. Glad I avoid spoilers cause apparently CBS used shots of Kaoh Rong jury in CAMBODIA Ponderosa opener”.

            That’s right: If you go back to Cambodia’s Ponderosa videos, you can see the Kaoh Rong jury.

          • hardcöre umlaut

            ??? Why would this even happen?!?!

          • Because CBS underestimates the rabid online Survivor fandom

        • Kent McK

          The editors can’t just make someone look super good out of thin air, but they can show someone in their absolute best possible light. The editors can also strategically insert confessionals to make it look like someone had more authority than they did. The editors did both of those things with Michelle all the time.

          • corndogshuffle

            The fact that this is what Michele’s winner edit looks like probably confirms what most people on here are complaining about. They gave a damn chicken a better edit than the winner. They were really scraping the bottom of the barrel with Michele and it’s difficult to chew on this result because of that.

          • VoicOff

            Mark the chiken for the win ! He was robbed of his due: the title of America’s favorite

          • DrVanNostrand

            Just think how many grubs he could’ve bought for a million dollars.

          • VoicOff

            I am waiting for him to gest-star in a Sia video now

          • Alycia Swift

            With Shia Lebouef?

          • VoicOff

            I am not waiting for shia Leboeuf in anything. Except maybH the obituary pages. he is on my irrational hate list.

          • Other Scott

            I guess I had more faith that the best possible light for Michele was better than what we got.

            Also, there is no possible argument they didn’t show Aubry in the best possible light. Did you hear the music she got when she won the firemaking challenge?

          • Kent McK

            Oh yeah Aubry got a great edit. I just felt that she was entertaining enough in confessionals that she would have been a big character regardless of whether she won or not. And that wasn’t the case with Michelle.

          • Alycia Swift

            If Michele hadn’t won, she might have been Purple Michele or more like Sheri in the edit.

        • hardcöre umlaut

          Maybe this is crazy but I know Rob talked on RHAP about how the only people he knew who chose Anna as their winner picks were men. I think, perhaps, that after she was eliminated pretty early, the people on the Anna train switched over to Michele (one attractive brunette for another). Everyone was kind of already thinking that there was a female winner due to Probst’s lack of enthusiasm for the season (which turned out to be all about WHICH woman won, not that a woman won, since I think he would’ve loved an Aubry win), and people aren’t going to pick the nerdy mousy girl over the beauty. I don’t know, maybe I am reading way too much into this, maybe the Michele hype was motivated by people who could see that the jury would never let an assertive woman win, who knows.

      • I honestly think that it is the Probst comparison to Parvati that was a tip off for me. She quickly became my winners pick in one fantasy league and my alternate for my Pick 4 league, but I wanted to not believe it. I seriously did.

        • Alycia Swift

          The weird thing is she’s nothing like Parvati except they are brunette. Even Parvati said that. She’s closer to Jenna Morasca or Natalie White.

          • VoicOff

            There are pretty womin, what additional characteristic can you expect Probst to memorize ?

          • Alycia Swift

            Well none.

      • Black Dynamite

        That’s highly disappointing if true. You wanna know the results that’s one thing but to shit on everyone else’s fun by then pretending to use that information as super edit reading is crossing a line to me.

      • VoicOff

        That’s better than “someone leaked the result on sucks”, isn’t it though ?

        • Purplerockmatt

          no that is his answer

      • corndogshuffle

        I started speculating about this as early as the merge and I know I posted that theory at least once on here. That was my guess for a month or six weeks but I gave it up once they started editing Aubry as a potential winner. Talk about a rug pull.

      • jackdw97

        I kind of got on the Michele winner edit bandwagon by the end, although some of that might have been due to OWM dominating the discussion of this season. Still, I thought Aubry had much more of a winner’s edit, especially tonight.

        • Kent McK

          Yeah I’ve thought that Michelle was going to win for awhile, but tonight I was really doubting myself. I just kept thinking “how the hell is Aubrey not going to win this?” I’m still not sure how the jury came to that conclusion.

          • AubrysWinnersEdit

            None of it makes any sense. I’ve changed my disqus name in solidarity and am reminding myself that this season was great until the last minute.

          • What was your user name before?

          • AubrysWinnersEdit

            jackdw97. I needed a creative one.

          • Fair enough

    • jackdw97

      What you said makes sense, but I’m not sure if we really saw the “outsider” thing on the show. Much like the bitter jury hypothesis, it’s a logical explanation for Michele’s win, but the win really defies logic.

      • Other Scott

        I’m not entirely certain the show knows exactly how its own game works. And also they did say Michele has no enemies multiple times.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I also think Aubry had some bad luck. She had a good chance to get rid of Michele at 5, but got screwed by an old man’s prostate. She had a good chance at 4, but Michele won. These are things that happen in Survivor. But it’s a lesson that I’m sure won’t be lost on future players.

      • Kemper Boyd

        You know how there are poster children for the 3 pillars of Survivor gameplay: Mike is the physical winner, Boston Rob is the strategic winner and Parvati is the social winner (even though I quibble with this as she is strategic as fuck). Michele is the Luck winner. She didn’t go to tribal for 22 days, she got saved by an old man’s prostate and then managed to win out.

        • I think Amber wants to have a chat with Michele out back.

          • andythesaint

            Amber was involved in every post-merge decision made on All-Stars. There’s no comparison.

          • I was just referring to the fact that Amber said that she had luck in her FTC answers. Also, she got really lucky that Lex and Kathy were blinded by their pre-game alliance to not eliminate her.

          • Alycia Swift

            Amber wasn’t a great winner but you can see why Rob lost and why she won.

  • corndogshuffle

    Just saw the preview for the next season and I need to stop talking about Michele. Was hoping it would have a cool title at least, regardless of theme. Oh well.

    Anyway as far as the theme goes, I genuinely don’t care about themes. They tend to become less important over the course of the season and as long as the characters/game play is interesting it means nothing. Sure it’s a silly theme, but the season will either be interesting or it won’t, and in all likelihood the theme will have nothing to do with that at all.

  • VoicOff

    There’s usually nothing interesting on instagram regarding Survivor, but this year there’s a cute enough Cydney fanart

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ac64fd06b10876b346e8fc3a9fb8d08e22d8089383e45958ee38251d24e48f57.png

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BFkqFSnPx4G/

  • Alkanarra

    New theory: the show had plenty of pro-Michele footage, but Jeff/production was so unhappy with another under-the-radar winner that they deliberately tried to make her look bad to scare off future players from using the same tactics. I’m really grasping at straws here, people.

    • DrVanNostrand

      It’s at least as good as my “people just hate nerds” theory.

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      Here’s a straw to grasp at: The jury was excited to see Mark, and Mark did face Michele for most of the FTC…

      • DrVanNostrand

        He was definitely a better character than Michele.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I like this conspiracy theory. I think it probably comes way more down to having a tonne of bigger characters to fit in.

    • Alycia Swift

      But it probably encouraged them more.

    • sharculese

      The only reason I’m not buying this is that I think that’s what they did to Jenna, and I hope they learned their lesson about it.

    • Agreed with everything except the pro-Michele footage part. I think that was lacking.

  • sharculese

    Random thing I just noticed that nobody seems to have brought up yet – when Jeff mentioned Mark the Chicken, someone in the audience yelled out “DAMN!”

    • Ten bucks says that was Josh Wigler.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Please let that be true.

        • He’s normally at the reunions, right?

          • sharculese

            It’s part of his job.

            ETA: And he said explicitly on the last Wiggle Room that he’d be at this one.

          • I am a little behind on the Wiggle Room, so that’s why I didn’t know.

          • He was there last season. When Emma gets here, she can confirm if he was there this time. But I’m guessing the answer is yes.

          • Wait, is Emma at the reunion again?

          • Yup. She’s at the after-party right now.

          • Nice. Was she in Cochran’s perimeter at all?

          • DrVanNostrand

            She’ll have to wrestle Aubry for a seat near Cochran.

          • You’ll have to ask her!

          • Purple Rock Emma

            No, he didn’t go to the after party.

          • Boo!

          • DrVanNostrand

            She’s so Hollywood now. She probably can’t even talk shit about Michele since she might run into her.

          • DrVanNostrand

            He and Rob were both talking about how they’d be there doing interviews and shit for podcasting.

          • That makes sense, but Rob still did KIA tonight I thought.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Good question. All the podcasts kind of run together after a while.

          • Alycia Swift

            Except yours, of course.

          • Hornacek

            Nice save.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Confirming that he was there, but I admit I didn’t hear the “Damn!”

        • Alycia Swift

          Are you doing another article about your experience watching this time?

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Yes, I will! I’ll try to get it out quicker than John did last year.

    • AubrysWinnersEdit

      THERE IS GOOD LEFT IN THIS WORLD

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Yes, we all heard Sia.

        She’s my fave!

      • Nice picture

  • Other Scott

    Good point from Dan Fienberg over on Hollywood Reporter.

    4 out of 7 jury members were three jocks + Julia, who are all very likely to vote for and respect a prom queen rather than a nerd. And then Cydney was just down to who’s your biggest ally.

    • I didn’t get the impression that Nick respected Michele, though. Same with Jason and Scot. Didn’t we see all of them rooting for Aubry in that fire-making challenge? Was that just bitterness toward Cydney?

      • DrVanNostrand

        I think yes to the last question. If this FTC had been Tai-Michele-Cydney, I’d still be pissed off, BUT I’D AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED!

        • Kemper Boyd

          THIS. When I worked out in my head Cydney v Michele (which can include Tai as I always had him on 0) I thought it could have been a tie. I still think that as I think Debbie may have voted Cydney over Michele.

      • corndogshuffle

        This is probably the most confusing thing… the jury was shown to be openly rooting for Aubry within two days of FTC. Just another nail in the coffin. This season outdoes Samoa for me in terms of “what just happened”. At least Russell was an ass and Mick was Mick. I get where that season’s winner came from even if I didn’t like watching it happen. It’s like this season did everything it could to pump up everyone *besides* the winner, just to throw one more surprise at us.

        • To me, the jury rooting for Aubry to win the fire challenge was the final bit of proof that Aubry won the season. We got to see people hoping to get the chance to give her a million dollars! But apparently that’s not what that was.

          • corndogshuffle

            That was definitely when I made up my mind. It appeared that the entire jury was openly rooting for Aubry. But I guess they just really hated Cydney?

            Editing didn’t even need to show us this… just shows again how much work they did to set up Aubry as the winner only to have Michele win convincingly. Surely there was *something* to show us for Michele, but they chose to pump up Aubry instead. Maybe they knew Michele wouldn’t be loved and wanted to make it easier for Aubry to come back? I’m sure I’m just rationalizing but still.

            I’ve seen a few people compare this do Danni (UTR and such) but I don’t buy it. Danni withheld information in interviews on purpose. Michele simply didn’t know what was going on. I know if you play this game enough times there will be unsatisfying winners with nothing on their resume beside “well you weren’t a bitch so” but that doesn’t make it suck any less to actually see that person win.

          • DrVanNostrand

            The editors gave us no indication that anyone thought Aubry was a ‘bitch’. The Scot FTC question was the first time I started think, holy shit, Michele might win this. Because every single other question and response at FTC made Aubry seem like the winner.

          • corndogshuffle

            I didn’t mean that the editors gave us that impression, I just mean that to me it seems that the reason people voted for Michele is because they didn’t hate her. I’m sure to the jury members that is pretty powerful when you combine that with Michele’s inability to matter on a strategic level. It’s been a long time since a winner was as out of the loop as Michele and that seems to have paid off for her. Even Aubry pointed out Michele’s completely lack of savvy as to what was going on.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Well once again we have to remind ourselves that the Jury isn’t going to act the way we want them to, they won’t all be about the best game or player.
            Did you listen to Jeremy talking to Rob C on Rhap? he was talking about how at the Jury House in SJDS everyone was up for voting for Keith and asking Wes what he would buy and Jeremy was going crazy because you are supposed to respect the game and gameplay and vote for the best player. Hell Jeremy would have voted for Missy if it were Keith, Missy, Jacq at the end and to me that is voting for the best game, even if she seems to have been unlikable throughout.

          • Hornacek

            Stephen has said that in the Second Chances jury many people were talking about voting for Kimmy if she made it to the end because of her real-life situation, which just boggles my mind since these are all returning players and I expect better from them.

          • Alycia Swift

            I thought he said Alec and Wes were talking about what he was going to buy, not everyone else. But I could be wrong.

          • corndogshuffle

            I would actually argue that the jury should act exactly the way we want them to, as long as by “the way we want them to” means “consistent with their edit, actions, and words”. The way this finale and FTC went down just don’t line up based on what I saw this season. If it had been Michele vs. Tai in a final two, the worst I could say about Michele sweeping the votes (which I’m certain she would do) is “I get how Tai lost”.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I think they should act in a way that makes sense within the story we’ve been told but that is not their fault but the fault of the storytellers.

          • Alycia Swift

            I think Aubrey would have voted Tai. Joe possibly too.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I was on the bus (as usual) and at the end I thought “fuck, Aubry’s got this from FTC”, Julia’s question was so scathing to Michele and Debbie didn’t even talk to her then voted for her.

          • Purplerockmatt

            and that is why i’m upset, everything seemed to point to Aubry, the editors had no interest in showing why it was Michele

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yeah it’s rather galling.

          • Is there still time for Jeff to demand a revote?

          • Something Quirky

            I think we just underestimated how bitter people were towards Cydney.

        • Crappy

          I think you confusing Russell’s Samoa’s edit with Hvv. Even in Samoa, we had jurors like Dave Ball go out and still proclaim Russell as a great player in their final words. Not to mention Erik R was openly cheering every Russell move and then made that speech in the end. We also did n’t get as many scenes of Russell being awful to other players in post merge as in HvV where it was clear that Heroes despised him. Only during day 39 breakfast, we saw some evidence that Russell probably won’t win when he started to taunt Natalie and Mick.

          • I think you mean Erik C. Also, I think from Monica on, you start to see the chinks in the armor.

      • VoicOff

        I guess his point is that joke don’t respect women anyway, so they would rather vote for the pretty one,
        (I think it’s a bad argument, we are missing a piece of the puzzle. Can’t wait for the interviews)

        • tocantins

          It is funny that my wife stopped by the sofa during the FTC. She hadn’t watched a single episode in the season, but she said at once “The pretty girl is going to win. These guys look like they will vote for the pretty girl.” (I laughed at her, because I was completely positive that Aubrey was winning.)

          • Kemper Boyd

            Your wife understands how society works.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        Ponderosa video is up. They are super bitter.

        • prettyboyprobst

          They really are. Luckily Cydney is super awesome and Joe super sweet.

      • Alycia Swift

        Yes.

      • Yeah, but Michele triumphed thanks to Nick’s mentoring of her, remember? if he votes for her it’s almost like voting for himself.*

        *in his head

      • Kemper Boyd

        I thought that Nick really respected Aubry but hey looks like he was a bitter idiot.

        • Purplerockmatt

          actually looks like nick did vote for aubry and debbie voted michele

          • Kemper Boyd

            Where is that info coming from? I only got mine of the wiki page.

          • andythesaint

            Neal.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yeah I’ve seen it since. Plus Wigler’s parade article says that Debbie couldn’t be swayed by Neal so seems that wiki is wrong. CBS should just give us a video of them voting.

          • This is bonkers! How? What?

      • Other Scott

        Short answer: Yes. Cydney would have gotten crushed by Michele.

        • Kemper Boyd

          One thing is I think Cydney gets Aubry’s vote…

          • Max_Jets

            I would guess she gets Joe, Debbie and Neal too. The winner would probably hinge on how the juror removal goes.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I said it last week I had Cydney, Michele, Tai as a tie so I think it would hinge on the removal too. In that case I really think Michele just takes out Joe or Aubry.

      • Other Scott

        Survivor Wiki says Nick voted for Aubry.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I just checked it like 2 minutes ago and it now says he voted for Michele… WTF is going on?

          • Purplerockmatt

            no one knows?

          • Kemper Boyd

            Both wiki and the survivor wikia holder of all Savage’s knowledge now say the same thing. I really thought Nick would vote Aubry.

          • Purplerockmatt

            it makes more sense to me that Nick voted for her in a lot of ways than that Debbie did.

          • Other Scott

            Oh, I know what happened. I lined up the chart wrong because I thought Nick was the second jury member. Which he was, until he wasn’t.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yes, quite! I do feel bad for Neal, it must suck completely to get medevaced, sit through like 20 days of Ponderosa and Tribals only to be told “bad luck, no vote for you”.

        • It switched back to Debbie. I don’t think we’ve got real confirmation yet.

        • andythesaint

          I don’t know why we’re assuming the Wiki has more knowledge than we do. They’re using the same sources.

          • Other Scott

            Well, I was thinking I missed a definitive source that the wiki knew about, so I deferred to it.

            The funny thing was people coming back to Neal’s twitter response about Nick voting for Aubry and saying “Well, the wiki says Debbie did, so you’re wrong.”

          • Purplerockmatt

            i was even looking through the edit history to see where tehy got it, and couldn’t find it

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Millennials, bro. Millennials.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I hope it’s not that dumb, but if this primary election season has taught me anything, it’s that people are far dumber than I think they are.

    • Alycia Swift

      I actually said a variation of that much further down in the comments a while ago based on Kyle’s comment earlier in the season.

  • Guys, the West Coasters (I think) are almost at FTC. Prepare for the avalanche of comments.

    • VoicOff

      Pure, unadultered rage coming through !

    • Support group assemble!

      • Alycia Swift

        I’ll have to rejoin tomorrow.

        • Same. It’s late, and I’m calling it a night.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I couldn’t sleep if I wanted to. You guys have me all riled up. I need to get off the internet and watch South Park reruns for a while.

          • Alycia Swift

            I was so riled up that I came here instead of doing the work I brought home with me. I have to be up In 5 hours so goodnight all.

          • Purplerockmatt

            i woke up in the middle of the night still angry, and had trouble getting back to sleep

  • DrVanNostrand

    Just to not be bitter, I’m going to quote J. Peterman right now and say: “Kudos, Michele, on a job…. done.”

    • corndogshuffle

      I have seen many Survivor winners crowned, and Michele is certainly one of them.

    • sharculese

      I WILL UPVOTE ALL OF THE SEINFELD QUOTES.

  • Random fantasy league question: Did Mark knock out Diego in Outcasts League?

    • Saturday Night Palsy

      I don’t think so. I’m no mathematician, but I believe Diego won that. I also think that John tied with me. Now I’m gonna have to share my victory with a Michele truther!

      • See, I can’t do math so I was wondering.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          I think next years Champions League will be Purple Rock John, Ispeakllama, TiminSoCal, and myself from the current league, Diego Armando from Outcasts, and from Pick-4 you (obviously) and (keep in mind I’m not doing all the math for everyone) m0nit0rman, macontosh2000, and EmAndScoutInBK. Again, I have to stress that I am no mathematician. I guess we’ll see for sure in a bit.

          • I was thinking that it would be close between EmAndScout and PurpleRockMark

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            You’re right. I forgot to add the four points Aubrey got from FTC votes. Plus I just read the tie-breaker rules and see that John beat me. This is the worst birthday ever. Even worse than that one that Rodney had while experiencing the chance of a lifetime.

          • I’m sorry.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I think I may get a tattoo of this day on my bicep to remember how horrible it’s been. I’ll get it right over my anus air freshener tattoo.

          • Is it going to be close to the tattoo of Frankenstein’s monster as well?

  • Prom King

    Okay I’ve gone through this comment thread and AV Club’s comment thread. I still feel a bit nauseated about this win, but it’s nice to see a lot of like minds, at least. I don’t want to go over to reddit tonight, it’s too soon.

    Michele joins Fabio and Amber as my least favorite winners. Probably lower than Fabio, who at least had some personality.

    Terrible reunion, one of the worst ever, but I was amused by Probst’s somewhat disdainful expression when he announced Michele’s win. Normally he’s very un-amusing to me. I’m not sure I’ve seen that look from him before, at least not when announcing the winner.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I said last week this is would be a Bob Crowley level win and I think it’s down there. Bob, Fabio and Amber are my least impressive winners for sure and Michele does join them for game play. If I was listing them by how much I like them it’d be different and Bob would be really high up because he was a lovely odd character and Michele would be in the middle.

      • Alkanarra

        See, I wouldn’t put Michele that low. She was aware of strategy and at least trying to play the game, even if her moves weren’t effective. Her strong relationship with Cydney was the big key in her staying inside the main alliance, having protection, and not getting their blood on her hands. I won’t hold the bizarre editing against Michele and I certainly won’t group her with competitors who didn’t even attempt to play the game.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Fair enough. I think you make good points. Maybe I’ll reconsider.

          • Alkanarra

            Don’t get me wrong, Michele is lower-tier. But my anger is more at “the most deserving” player losing and/or the odd edit choices. Replace Aubry with anyone else that season (even Cydney) and Michele’s victory is more easily justifiable.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I think Cydney played a better game than Aubry, we just got no focus on her in the edit. it’s the best game of playing the middle I think I’ve ever seen.

          • Alkanarra

            Sure, but I could at least understand the jury being bitter with Cydney, particularly Jason/Scot since she turned on them. I wouldn’t like the ending, but it would make sense from the narrative. Instead it turns out “she voted against me so screw her” was their logic whether they were actually betrayed or not.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Oh I fully agree. It’s a nonsense and I have no respect for them at all. But I’ll say it’s not unexpected from such man babies.

      • Other Scott

        Fabio and Michele pretty much did the same thing, except Michele got more lucky breaks and was less likable.

        Haven’t seen Gabon, but Michele might actually be the worst winner.

        • Kemper Boyd

          No no, in game play Bob Crowley is the worst winner. He didn’t really engage in the game at all. He is just a wonderfully man.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Sugar burned that game to the ground. If I watch along with PRP during the off-season, I’ll have to just try and enjoy the nihilism of it all.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Bob is doing what Bob does no matter the cast or season. He’s 6th out or earlier any other time but Gabon. But I love Bob.

      • Prom King

        Yeah, definitely, regarding Bob. He’s an enjoyable winner and a really great character.

    • DrVanNostrand

      From a game perspective, I think Michele was one of the better UTR winners. However, she is probably the most boring winner of all time. It’s too early to say for sure. I’ll need the benefit of hindsight to make my final ruling.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Her?

  • Aubry: “I thought you were a grown-up who would respect the best competi-”

    Scot: “WRONG.”

    • Hornacek

      Scot says this as he’s smashing a dinner plate against his head.

      • this bear is tops blooby

        And doing a clumsy looking dance.

        • “In the NBA we do a ceremonial dick-measuring at the start of the season and then whichever team is the best endowed gets to win. That’s just how you do a good sportsmanship.”

          • “Then we practise our demeaning comments about the cheerleaders. That’s how we let them know we respect them deep down, so they can grow up as strong confident women.”

        • DrVanNostrand

          When you’re that tall, the only graceful thing you can do is a sky-hook.

  • Crappy

    Now we know why Jeff was cautious about bigging this season up. It is going to get worse now, with all the conformists portraying Michele as some kind of social gamer genius.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I don’t think she’s a social gamer genius but it does add weight to the known fact that a good social game is important.

      • Crappy

        That’s what I mean. This is a go to answer for folks when they can not actually explain someone’s win. That their social game was super stealthy that does not translate into good TV or something.
        Well, you know whose social game translated well on TV? Aubry’s. She had strong bonds with her original brain tribe, made a great partnership with Cydney to pull off some moves and then was able to pull in Tai at the right time to flip the season.
        Michele’s social game was about not pissing people off and err. that’s it.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Maybe we need to rethink how we describe social game? Like Aubry’s social stuff was social game. Is there a better description for what Michele did, social relationships almost outside of a game setting?
          We see 45 minutes of each 72 hours they spend in the game, there is a lot of time for social interaction that is genuine but not game focused. It seems like that is what Michele was good at, we saw a little of it with her day with Tai last week. But obviously the show focuses on what is game play based not shooting the shit based. I think the shooting the shit social interactions are the kind that are important too but very very rarely shown on the show.

          • Other Scott

            This might be a hot take, but I don’t think Michele’s social game was better than Aubry’s. I really just think it came down to Aubry was reponsible for them all being on the jury, and Michele is the underdog.

            I think if the show could give us some evidence of great Michele social game, a la Natalie White , they would have.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I dunno man, I’m hypothesizing to some degree but the fact is the conversations about people’s lives are usually not that great for putting in the show when there are only 15 45 minute episodes to show everything.
            If we are saying bitter Jury then we must say that Aubry played the jury wrong to some degree. Should she have won in my mind? Hell yeah. But she didn’t so oh well.

          • Other Scott

            I think good social game is a default explanation when nothing else really makes sense. But I think this does make sense.

            Think of it in sports terms: Your team gets beaten out of the playoffs, do you cheer for the team that beat you in the next round? No, you cheer for the other team that had nothing to do with you getting eliminated. Michele didn’t win because she was a better player than Aubry or Tai. Michele won because she wasn’t someone who was part of the Aubry-Tai-Cydney-Joe alliance that dominated the game and managed to get herself to the end.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I think you’re clearly right, but I’m still surprised. I thought people respected a solid strategic game more, especially when that person carried it out with so little acrimony. In addition to seeing more alliances stay strong to the end, I think this season will encourage more Jason’s and Scot’s being brought to the end. If you have to bring a member of the opposing alliance, make it the goatiest one, even if they make you miserable.

          • Other Scott

            Oh, I’m surprised too.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Was what we got to see from N.White’s social game really that impressive? I only remember one scene in the shelter with girls from the opposing alliance and some decent Russell-managment.
            However, that season seems like a much better case for your “Don’t bring someone not in your alliance to the end”, doesn’t it? I can’t imagine anyone from that big alliance losing to anyone who made FTC in Samoa.

            Parts of Aubry’s social game were really spectacular (everything Tai, although I’d argue that it worked so well was more due to Tai being Tai than Aubry being convincing; ), but I think many people on the jury never got to experience Aubry’s social game (only the ripple effects), and that’s probably her fault. Or maybe they did and it’s just not that good.

          • prettyboyprobst

            It really is an annoyingly broad term. So much room for misunderstanding…

          • Kemper Boyd

            The value of being a nice, upbeat and fun person to live with is often underestimated by us fans. It’s a different social game to what a Parvati did or even Kim, I don’t doubt Kim was a good energy to have at call but her social game was making everyone comfortable with her in the game.

        • tocantins

          I agree; I think that many people’s logic is “she won, therefore she must be good at something. Since she obviously is not good at strategy, she must have a good social game. So she is a social genius!”

  • Kemper Boyd

    So I got up a little early and managed to watch all 1 hour and 40 minutes of the thing getting ready and on the way to work and I didn’t see the reunion yet. It means I missed things but to me that Tribal didn’t seem all that positive for Michele. I had to look up on wiki who had voted for who her after Jason, Scot and Julia. I wasn’t shocked by Nick but was by Cydney. I didn’t think she would be that bitter.
    It’s an underwhelming ending to a really enjoyable season. Solid mid-level Survivor.

    • gouis

      I don’t understand why Scot and Jason voted for Michele.

      Debbie, Joe, Julia and Cydney make sense, as they voted for their strongest ally. With Nick, who knows but it doesn’t really matter what he does since Scot and Jason will likely vote together.

      Why they chose the pretty boring woman over the woman who went toe to toe with Jason in challenges and seemed like she earned his respect, makes no sense whatsoever.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I get Scot and Jason, they are men who think they are logical and smart but are really running entirely on emotion and they would rather the woman who outsmarted them didn’t win.
        Cydney’s strongest ally was more up in the air as she played hand in hand with Aubry until the F4 when I think Aubry had to take her out.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I agree with Kemper Boyd. I think they didn’t want to give it to the person who outsmarted them. The fact that the person who outsmarted them was a woman, probably stung their tender alpha male asses particularly hard. Maybe I’m being uncharitable…. but I don’t think I am.

  • Kemper Boyd

    Question: If Aubry came back for a Second Chance season what would be her big “fix it” issue? Is it just get to the end with a Jury who isn’t bitter/idiots?

    • Don’t have your main alliance be a 71-year old with prostate issues? Be better at judging the relative heights of bits of wood?

      • Kemper Boyd

        All 71 year old men have prostate issues. The only ones who don’t are men who have had their prostates removed (which is also an issue).

      • DrVanNostrand

        With regard to the first one, it worked for Hatch!

    • Other Scott

      Don’t let a Michele get to the end. Make sure the other people who are with you at the end were in your alliance that helped vote the jury out.

      Oh, and be more decisive. She may have lost Scot’s vote on the Peter thing.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I think Aubry got a tonne of bad luck at the end. But she also had good luck when Neal went. Michele literally only had good luck. Every major luck based event went well for her. No tribal for 21 days, Neal going meant she ended up voting with the brains/women side against Nick, then Joe going saved her from probably going at 5.

        • Other Scott

          Yeah, Michele had only 4 tribal councils in which she could have been voted out, which I’m fairly certain is second only to Tom Westman’s 3.

          She’s an insanely lucky winner, but sometimes that happens.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Jury management. Many of us (including me) thought she just needed to make it to the end because her game was so strong. I was wrong. She still needed to herd some goats. Of course, she lost one of those goats very close to the end, which had nothing to do with her. But still, that’s what I’d take away if I were her.

      And if you want to point to a single move, I think Other Scott mentioned it elsewhere: the Jason vote. I was on board because I thought Jason was more likely to convince people to flip. But he was probably more of a jury goat. So I’ve done a 180 on that one (except that I still think voting out Tai would’ve been the worst move possible, it had to be Michele or Jason).

      • Kemper Boyd

        Honestly we had this argument on twitter about 6 hours ago but I don’t think that move changes all that much. I think it leaves her with the exact same problems. Except a different face. Also the Jason move was predicated on having 2 more tribals and assuming Michele wouldn’t win both immunities. I can’t fault it, she didn’t know Joe would be evac’d and at that point no one had repeated immunity wins let alone taken 3 (which would have been Michele’s final number if you include hypothetical F5). Basically i think it’s a punt between Michele and Jason at F6. Maybe it’s Julia? it should have been Jason at 7 and then use Tai’s advantage at 6 to take out Michele leaving Julia in Michele’s spot.

  • Last three all-newbie seasons:

    San Juan del Sur: AMAZING winner and endgame, but largely disliked from a gameplay standpoint
    Worlds Apart: a nonstop parade of awfulness, redeemed only slightly by the winner being by far the most palatable of the remaining options
    Koh Rong: largely great, but with one of the most disappointing winners ever

    How do we rank them? And what are the odds of CBS riding the returning-player angle HARD after this?

    EDIT: I guess this question is sort of: would you rather have great gameplay with a really disappointing winner, or disappointing gameplay with an awesome winner?

    • Me:

      1. San Juan del Sur, because Natalie’s win was ultimately so very satisfying
      2. Koh Rong, because it’s sort of tainted now THANKS JURY

      3. Worlds Apart IF I EVEN HAVE TO ALLOW IT A RANKING SLOT

      • Dr.Horrible

        This is correct.

    • Kemper Boyd

      SJDS: Amazing winner, superb end game, weak as fuck pre-merge and bad cast generally.
      WA: AWFUL cast who go deep, winner who seemed cool but couldn’t play the game
      Kaoh Rong: largely great season, underwhelming winner, but strong cast and fun gameplay.

      1. KR
      2. SJDS
      3.
      4.
      5. WA.

      • Ms_Woozah

        this.

    • Kent McK

      Great question. I think Koh Rong was much better than SJDS and Worlds Apart. Even though I think that Aubry got screwed, I don’t think it tarnishes the season too much. I’d compare it to the final vote in Heroes vs Villains, where I thought that Parvati played the better game and should of won, but I could see where the jury was coming from when they voted for Sandra.

      The gameplay in SJDS was far too weak for me to get excited about the endgame. And pretty much everything about Worlds Apart was terrible. Koh Rang had a lot better characters and far superior gameplay than both of those seasons.

    • corndogshuffle

      As irritated as I am that Michele won Survivor and as much as I think she is the worst winner since Fabio or maybe even Bob, in my opinion it’s still the best of the last three newbie seasons by a comfortable margin, and I like SJDS more than most people.

      I’d rather have a disappointing winner than a disappointing season overall. One Tribal Council does not wipe away 12 other excellent hours of television. To use specific seasons, I’d much rather watch Kaoh Rong again than One World despite Kim’s status as GOAT (arguably).

      Would rank the seasons
      Kaoh Rong
      SJDS

      Worlds Apart

    • andythesaint

      KR, SJDS, WA

      The answer to your edited in question: probably great gameplay with a disappointing winner is more interesting to me. HOWEVER, I’ll take a bad season with a great winner over a bad season with mediocre winner. Which is why I value RI and OW more than others (while still thinking them lower tier seasons).

      • DrVanNostrand

        That is the only sensible ranking.

    • Roswulf

      I’ll join you Reya and go SJDS, KR, WA.

      For me, ultimately this whole season was defined and shaped by Scot and Jason being bullying assholes much the same way that Dan/Rodney/Will defined WA. And unlike the WA misogynists, their votes ultimately determined the winner. Throw in the Joe and Caleb medevac episodes, both of which I found actively unpleasant to watch, and it’s a clear bottom tier season for me.

      SJDS was bland until Natalie’s late game explosion, but combined an enormously satisfying winner with not having anyone too rancid to watch. Note that I am saying this about a season prominently featuring John Rocker.

  • turgid_legume

    Fuck everything about this garbage season.

    And that seals the deal, I will not be visiting /r/survivor any time in the near future.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Garbage season is a bit harsh.

      • turgid_legume

        True. But I’ve been down on this season the whole time, it’s not just the end. There were a few memorable moments, and I enjoyed several of the characters very much (particularly Cydney), but there were also a number of extremely vile character moments in the early game that no amount of time can whitewash away. The evacuations were constantly undermining any strategic through-lines, and all the twists fell flat. And it somehow managed to turn the most likeable person ever to play the game into a zero-vote goat! A cringeworthy early game, stuttering middle, and unbearable winner adds up to a complete flop in my book. Oh, and a bumbling reunion is the cherry on the shit sandwich.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Fair analysis. I enjoyed it. I’d put it mid level.
          I did miss the reunion.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    I haven’t read through all the comments so I don’t know how unpopular this sentiment will be, but I actually liked the finale. I thought it was a great tribal council, I was genuinely surprised by the results, and I find Michele to be a likable character (even though she wasn’t the biggest strategic mastermind this season).

    • Kemper Boyd

      I agree. Perfectly likable if boring in gameplay but this is a better scenario to me than Jason sneaking through and winning. Yes I would have preferred Aubry to win but overall very enjoyable finale of an enjoyable season.

    • Other Scott

      No, me too. Now that I’m removed from the person I was cheering for losing I appreciate how the season turned out a lot more.

    • prettyboyprobst

      I missed more of the action than I did get to see on my livewatch, so I was really surprised how good of a finale this was, when I finally came around to watching it over the weekend. A ton of suspense, plenty of emotional moments, an exciting twist, solid TCs, some quirky moments and I could go on.
      I even felt it did a really good job of showing(/explaining) how Michele goes on to win.

      Oftentimes finales aren’t among my favorite episodes of a season, because they can stall or be too predictable, but this was a great one all around.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Finales aren’t usually my faves either 🙂 In fact on re-watches I usually find myself dreading them (and I ALWAYS skip the reunion)

        • prettyboyprobst

          That’s probably wise. Even the more distinctive reunions like Samoa and HvV haven’t failed to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
          This one certainly wasn’t great, but I didn’t think it was as bad as it s made out to be. No questions to Cydney is an outrage and a travesty, but at least we had no kids ask questions to Malcolm or Joey Amazing, so overall I’d say the reunion was par for the course.

  • MrBurkesButtons

    A bit of catharsis: While trying to recall who won the domino challenge (thinking incorrectly that three of Michele’s “big wins” involved stacking objects), I searched the Kaoh Rong Wikipedia page for the phrase “Michele won.”

    Phrase not found.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    I was thinking more about the FTC, and I think I enjoyed it so much for the great way they used the editing to show the subtle body language changes in the finalists. It was really an emotional roller coaster, particularly for Michele. We saw her worrying about taking a beating at FTC beforehand, and she even looked like she was physically wincing and shrinking back to guard against blows from Julia and (if I recall correctly?) Jason and then when their questions turned positive, she sat up straighter and her face lit up. It was actually really emotionally powerful for me (maybe I’m a softy) to see the transformation during FTC.
    I also want to note that I thought this was a remarkably un-bitter jury (even Jason and Scot asked eminently reasonable questions!). This final three was made up of the three players whose social skills were really considered the crux of their games, and I think Michele just won out because her magnetic personality was the one that really was able to shine through and win people over all the way up to the end. I’m planning on watching FTC again so I can see if I can figure out exactly where Aubry lost it, but my hunch is that they just had a really emotional jury and Michele appealed to them on that level by focusing on her underdog story and pinpointing the key moves that got her to the end in a way that showed her agency in the post-merge.

    • Other Scott

      I think the jury was bitter with how they voted, just not in terms of their question tone. I much prefer the other way around.

      My favourite part was when Joe addressed Michele and was like “I know what kind of player you are, so I’m going to talk to Tai and Aubry” and just completely wiped Michele’s smile off of her face.

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Yeah I think that could be a fair assessment. I didn’t watch the reunion so I don’t know if anybody got to talk about why they voted the way they did, but I’m really curious to see what people say in the post season. It’s entirely possible that many of the Michele votes were actually anti-Aubry (and anti-Tai) votes. Then again it’s also possible that Aubry’s game was too UTR for the jury and they just voted based on a popularity contest. I def need more info.

        • andythesaint

          They did not talk about it at all in the reunion. You’ve missed nothing.

    • prettyboyprobst

      I’m sorry I’m a week late with my comment, but I had a similiar experience watching that TC, it felt really good to see Michele lighting up over time. Watching Tai have pretty much the opposite happen to him was quite sad, on the other hand.
      I also didn’t think they acted or voted bitter at all (neither did I find them to be them more emotional than usual, though), but, as others have mentioned before, Cydney’s Ponderosa video makes clear that, at least to her, they were very bitter.

      I still haven’t watched most of the extra videos (none except for Cydney’s, because of course I watched everything starring her immediately), so I may be wrong here, but from what I thought after the episode and heard since then, I think you’re onto something with your guess below, that Aubry wasn’t seen much different from Michele in terms of UTRness.

  • this bear is tops blooby

    Daminit, was doing my laundry last night and they had Survivor on! I should’ve had headphones in…

    I couldn’t help but listen and figured out Cydney got booted. Bleh!

    Tai is worried Mark will reflect badly on him. Pretty astute for a guy who made so many mistakes up until now.

    Aubry wins RC, but makes a possibly fatal error in taking Cydney with her again, allowing Michele and Tai to strategize again.

    All I know is Cydney ain’t winning immunity.

    Michele side kicks her tower down in triumph!

    Tai’s a tricky person to be in bed with. Phrasing!

    Fire making challenge! At least I didn’t know that happened. But congrats Aubry…

    Wow, that was he quickest fire I’ve seen compared to past players!

    Oops, spoke too soon!

    Jason’s glad Cydney isn’t making progress. Dick.

    But the cinders allow for Aubry to start the blaze again.

    Aubry wins! (and probably the game too)

    It was an emotional win, when Aubry and Cydney embraced. Damnit, I got something in my eye…

    Cydney’s mom is also in fantastic looking shape.

    Oh boy look at pop!

    Tai again astutely observes there’s another challenge, but it’s not for final two, cause I over heard it while putting clothes in the dryer! I should’ve brought my headphones with me that second time, but I took the chance the channel would be changed by then. Ugh-o.

    I dunno, I still think even if Michele or Tai wins the reward to vote a jury member out, Aubry’s game has been too fucking good for her to lose at this point.

    Michele wins, so let’s see if that’s true.

    Is Joe getting voted out? Probably.

    Though when I went to pick up my laundry, I distinctly heard Joe speaking, I think.

    It could be Neal too.

    Not sure why Michele is asking Aubry about who’s the best to vote out!

    Neal notices no immunity necklace.

    Tomorrow is the jury vote! Who knew! That makes a lot more sense.

    This vote could be pretty significant once they talked about it more thoroughly. Though I have to wonder if anyone’s vote could be swayed at this point, in cases like Joe or Neal.

    #Michelehasspoken

    More like Neal has. Whoa.

    Nick opens up with some mansplaining.

    Debbie makes a far better opening.

    Tai defends himself pretty well.

    Neurotic nerd to geek warrior!

    Jason. #truthtime

    Mark gets a little riled up!

    Cydney in that dress!

    Aubry and Tai answer pretty well, complimenting the juror in their response. Good move.

    Scot, don’t dance.

    And he just may have won the douche contest between himself and Jason.

    Calm down Scot.

    So no opening statements anymore, but now closing statements. That’s a good choice.

    Aubry makes a strong, logical argument. #thatssoaubry

    Tai makes a very moving speech.

    Michele does too, but I’m not sure how effective it was following Tai’s tearjerker.

    It doesn’t seem like many votes were swayed for the most part.

    #byemark

    So, who was that special guest? Was it Mark?

    What the hell is that jacket Jason is wearing?!!

    WOW, Michele won! That Neil vote was huge!!!!

    Tai got no votes.

    I dunno, I feel like Aubry should’ve won/deserved to win.

    This season was kinda meh for me.

    • I caught the “tricky person to be in bed with” line too, and said “Phrasing!” aloud as it happened.

      • Other Scott

        Do we say PHRASING if the phrasing is intentional?

        • sharculese

          most of my PHRASINGS are intentional.

    • Hornacek

      “Wow, that was he quickest fire I’ve seen compared to past players!”

      Stephenie and Bobby-Jon’s was quicker. It was over almost immediately.

      • this bear is tops blooby

        Those names don’t ring a bell. Definitely didn’t see that season.

        • Hornacek

          You didn’t see Palau? Oh, the humanity!

          • this bear is tops blooby

            I’ll add that to the list!

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            For better or worse, you should watch Palau and Guatemala consecutively.

          • Purplerockmatt

            guatemala doesn’t deserve to be the forgotten season. it is solidly mid tier

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Oh I agree, Guatemala is highly underrated (for the cast if not the gameplay), but it’s still a step down from Palau. But TBITB, seriously, watch both as a set.

          • DrVanNostrand

            It’s a damn mid-tier season, man!

      • andythesaint

        They had matches.

        • Hornacek

          So did Becky and Sundra.

          Eventually.

  • Other Scott

    Predictably, reddit has started going into how Michele is some social game mastermind.

    You know what’s a good social game? Not being responsible for people being eliminated from the game.

    • Kemper Boyd

      It’s like some people can’t handle being able to say “look she played ok, nothing more but got lucky”. I’m sure Michele gives no fucks about whether people think she’s worthy, she’s got $1m

      • Purplerockmatt

        what bothers me is that people are going to build her up and yet we saw repeated instances on the show where she was just wrong and her instincts were bad. yeah she won, good for her. but don’t try and sell me the bridge that she is a mastermind

        • Kemper Boyd

          Well yeah, that is some dumb shit.

          • Purplerockmatt

            also edgic. fuck edgic

          • Kemper Boyd

            Well. duh.

          • Other Scott

            Awww…poor Matt. It was still a well written article!

          • DrVanNostrand

            Listening to those pigfuckers for the next year is going to be the worst part of all of this.

            (ETA: I still don’t buy that their edgic was unspoiled)

          • Purplerockmatt

            me neither

    • Crappy

      Yes, this is annoys me more than any random person winning due to some luck and bitter jury.

  • Diego Armando

    I have written my review for the Finale (but not the Reunion) at https://robertsreviewsandmusings.wordpress.com/. I honestly think this is my best work of the season (spoiler, I was not thrilled at the results). As always feel free to leave a comment to let me know how I can improve and thank you to any and all who looked at these.

    • this bear is tops blooby

      i initially thought maybe the Neal vote would be significant, but when you break it down, the people who voted for Michele were unlikely to be swayed:

      Julia (built in vote – not a chance)
      Debbie (felt betrayed – not a chance)
      Scot and Jason (assholes- not a chance)

      Cydney’s the only one I thought could be swayed, but if she didn’t vote for Aubry here, I don’t see how Neal would’ve convinced her.

      • sharculese

        Also I think that Neal’s line to Michele on the way out the door was a taste of what he had planned, and if anything he was going to end up pushing people more firmly into her camp by overdoing the vitriol.

        • prettyboyprobst

          Oh I’m sure that was what he could remember from his pre-planned jury speech in that instant, and I’m pretty sure it had just the opposite effect of what he intended, the way that played out.

          I guess it could have had helped Aubry if he did that at FTC, but as you say, it’s just as likely that he would have put people off with it.

          But even more damaging for Aubry must have been his insistence on Ponderosa, that he would have won the game, if he had not been medevaced and Aubry became the first member of the jury in his stead. I think all the people that have problems with the vote result can blame him as much as the jurors behind the 5 Michele votes.

      • Diego Armando

        You are probably right, though I still think Neal could only have helped her. Thank you for reading.

  • Hornacek

    “This is Michele Fitzgerald telling you, the viewers of the show that is called Survivor, that I received cash in the amount of $1 million by winning this season. I did this by getting a larger number of votes then the other players left in the game. I also kicked over a platform, which was my best move of the game.”

    (my biggest regret is that I didn’t clue into the Perd/Michele comparison earlier and didn’t write one of these every episode)

    • this bear is tops blooby

      Hey that’s only 65%-ish of $1 million, so thanks Obama!

      • Hornacek

        That’s why we need a Canadian Survivor – we’d get to keep all of the money!

        At least that’s what they told us when we had a week of Canadian Millionaire (fun fact: the host of that show eventually became a senator but was suspended while her expense claims were investigated).

        • Canadian Millionaire! Or, as we’d refer to it here, American $700,000-aire.

  • UseYourCommonSense

    Lol Michele is an average winner who had a bunch of dumb luck but she’s not the only one that’s won that way. And people are giving her credit for getting rid of Neal when it was actually Tai who brought up the idea (she was thinking of getting rid of Joe).

    • Kemper Boyd

      Neal? He was evaced.

      • andythesaint

        From the jury.

        • Saturday Night Palsy

          Thanks. I didn’t get that either.

        • Kemper Boyd

          god sorry, Duh.

    • DrVanNostrand

      She’s not the only one who won that way, but she’s probably the least interesting one who has.

  • Having had some time to reflect, I think my chief problem with Michele winning is that it doesn’t make the show a better show.

    It doesn’t encourage future players to develop strategies that we haven’t seen before.

    It doesn’t reward televisually interesting gameplay.

    It doesn’t even tell us very much about jury management, as there was no real indication that Aubry was failing in that respect either.

    Essentially, the Survivor universe in which Michele wins the game is a worse one than the one in which Aubry, or even Tai, wins. It is like the reality edition of Twilight; success comes simply by being a blank enough cipher that the jury can project whatever ‘meaning’ onto you that they wish.

    • sharculese

      Survivor has endured bland winners before. We’re still in a place where 4 of the last 6 winners did what it took to take strong control of the game, and the one who didn’t (Mike) at least was doing fun, crazy shit.

      • Agreed, but I feel like pretty much all of those bland winners at least added something to the narrative, even if it was a cautionary tale about jury management. You could at least understand that they won because someone else LOST.

        The weird thing this time round is that there is no reason Survivor has been able to present for why Aubry lost, other than ‘she was unlucky enough to be on a cast with some jock misogynists’. It would be like someone like Jeremy or Earl playing a great game, getting to the end, and then losing because the jury has a couple of racists on it.

        • To be fair, Earl did an excellent job of protecting himself against the jury having a couple of racists on it by not giving them any other options.

          But yes, I see your point. I just don’t think there was much else that the show could have done here, because the result was the result. They can’t go back to tribal and say, “Uh, jurors? Are you sure? Because maybe you should vote again.”

          • “So, uh, Jeff tripped and accidentally dropped all the votes in the fire, so you’re going to have to do it again. But first, let’s have a chat with Aubry about her dying relative. Do you have any dying relatives, Aubry?”

          • “Aubry, remember that story you told us about how you rescued an entire orphanage full of autistic children by yourself while wearing a Scot Pollard jersey and a Boston University hat? Why don’t you tell us that story again while we clean up the mess from these charred votes?”

    • Other Scott

      Survivor is always going to made up of people who move the game and people who sit back.

      The people who move the game have to do so properly and strategically, or the people who sit back are going to win. That’s the great battle. So as a player, you have to decide whether you want to sit back and hope others make the right move to gift you the win, or try to control your own destiny and try to make the right moves.

      The people who know Survivor are going to pick that second option every time, and the fact someone who picked the first option won this time doesn’t change that.

      Ultimately, the game doesn’t reward big moves. The game rewards good moves and punishes bad ones. And that’s the way it should be.

      And this season told me a lot about jury management. If the jury has the choice between someone who voted them out and someone who didn’t, then all other factors are pretty much irrelevant. That’s why the players need to make sure the people in the FTC with them made the same moves they did and have the same blood on their hands.

      • I think that’s a fair point – but if all players followed that advice, it would also make the game less interesting, because it discourages making moves to better your position in a game. You’re back to the straight pagonging, sticking with your alliance no matter what. and that leads to boring seasons.

    • andythesaint

      I will be on this wavelength on tonight’s show. I’m in a dark place.

    • AubrysWinnersEdit

      Michele beating Aubry feels like it came from some weird alternate universe where Kelly beat Rich.

  • Ms_Woozah

    8:43 God damn I will quit this liveblog if Michele wins

    We’ll miss you next season, Matt.

    • Kemper Boyd

      You volunteering?

    • Purplerockmatt

      i meant quit this night’s liveblog, which i didn’t do, so i am a liar

  • Other Scott

    Well, I ended up ranking this season ahead of Cambodia. I just think the Aubry, Tai and Cydney experience was better than anything we got last season.

    It would have been top 5 (ahead of Cagayan!) if not for the waste of time medevac episodes.

    • Max_Jets

      I was ready to put it at #1 before the winner was crowned! I have it tentatively at #7, just ahead of Cambodia. I’m still trying to process Michele’s win though, so it could move up or down.

      • Other Scott

        Okay, this might be a bad admission, but Michele winning actually moved up the season for me. Yes, Aubry winning was the outcome I was cheering for, but we’ve seen Aubrys win in the past.

        What I needed from this season is to see something we haven’t seen before, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen someone like Aubry lose to someone like Michele because of a bitter jury. That’s an interesting result that makes everything in the season sort of come together nicely.

        • Max_Jets

          I think I am fine with the way the votes fell, just not the reasons that the votes went that way. Michele winning didn’t hurt my opinion that much until I watched the jury speaks videos. Jason, Scot and Julia’s echo chamber reasoning for not voting for Aubry leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the season. I think Julia, Nick and Cydney were always going to vote for Michele. If Scot or Jason decided to vote that way too, that would be fine. It just didn’t feel like they came to that conclusion for the right reasons and it makes the end feel a bit nonsensical and even a bit depressing.

          • Purplerockmatt

            nick voted for Aubry pretty sure jury speaks confirms that

          • Max_Jets

            I don’t know how we officially find out, or what the hell survivor wikia is and where it gets its information from, but it says that she got votes from Joe and Debbie which is what I figured once tribal ended.

          • Purplerockmatt

            yeah but it has been changing, and i’m pretty sure jury speaks confirms two things 1) debbie said she was never going to vote for aubry and she held to that 2) nick voted for Aubry and respected her game

          • Max_Jets

            I didn’t bother watching Debbie’s because I didn’t think I needed an explanation for her vote, but I guess I do.

    • AubrysWinnersEdit

      Of the 17 seasons I’ve seen and remember enough to rank (1, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21-32), I have Kaoh Rong 7th (although I may move it above BvW). It really was a lot like Cambodia, with an exciting pre-merge and early post-merge before slowing down a little towards the end, although the gameplay and winner in Cambodia were much better.

      • Other Scott

        I’ve seen 23 seasons, and have it 6th, only behind HvV, Samoa, Palau, The Amazon, and Cagayan, and just ahead of Pearl Islands and Cambodia.

        It was just a season with really solid characters and pretty fascinating gameplay. It’s also refreshing to have games where people screw up, unlike Cambodia where the strategic discussion was basically “Well that makes sense as a move, though 30 other things would have also made sense and there’s really no way to know what was better.”

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I’ve also seen 23 seasons, and I put Kaoh Rong in 9th, right on the dividing line between the top tier and the middle tier, below Amazon and above Panama. Only after I wrote it down did I realize that I was grouping together three seasons with unsatisfying winners (although the comparison doesn’t hold up to a lot of scrutiny).

    • Alycia Swift

      I’ve seen 29 of the 30 seasons without any rewatches. I have never seen Borneo but I do have the dvds (a gift but I can’t bring myself to watch where I already know the winner.) I started watching season 2.

      I’d put this in my bottom six or seven. And its because of the winner. And Jason and Scot to some extent. I did not mind the medivacs, although #3 was not because of the conditions, or the bug in the ear.

      I loved Pearl Islands, Cambodia, Palau, China, Austrailia, Caramoan, HvV, Micronesia and Cook Islands.

      There’s other seasons I appreciate despite the winner not being great or because the winner was decent because we know why someone won or lost (Amazon, for example).

      But this one I can’t appreciate.

  • Chris Barnes

    For anyone who thinks this wasn’t a bitter jury, check out Cydney’s Ponderosa video. You will clearly see that this is one of the most bitter and immature juries ever. Love Cydney calling Julia, Scot, and Jason adult-babies. Those three couldn’t fathom an intelligent girl who doesn’t rely on looks beating them

    • sharculese

      Technically, Julia was still just a child-baby.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I give the small pass of being 19 which is not old enough to be considered an adult. Her pre-frontal cortex isn’t fully developed yet, thus she is unable to make good decisions.

        • this bear is tops blooby

          She voted for her social clique pretty much, so she was gonna be biased.

          • Kemper Boyd

            very much what you’d expect from a 19 year old.

          • this bear is tops blooby

            Seems to emulate current politics though.

    • Purplerockmatt

      what bothers me then is why other people went along with the bitter jury including Cydney!

    • this bear is tops blooby

      I like Cydney, but she was the most petulant player on that island. A lot of her big moves was just based on one of her moods/how irritable she was that day.

      • Other Scott

        Michele was her closer ally, and chose to try and keep her in the game where she could have flipped. Cyd wasn’t bitter, that was a legitimate vote.

        • this bear is tops blooby

          Still doesn’t seem like she’s making a logical vote though for who’s the best winner (not that that’s ever been the basis for a juror’s vote). I could see that being a consideration for not voting someone out during regular gameplay, but for voting for a winner, that feels like sort of a bitter vote, since all you’re doing is voting for someone who didn’t vote for you, and not who played the best game.

          • Other Scott

            “This person was my ally throughout the game and I want to reward their loyalty” is probably how I would vote if I was on the jury. And that’s really easy for players to account for as well, so you can gameplan to avoid that scenario where that vote makes you lose.

          • this bear is tops blooby

            I’d agree with that if Aubry wasn’t her ally either. So it seems a little inconsistent. I guess Aubry voting for her was reason enough, but like Aubry said, she’d do the same thing in her spot, so I dunno if it’s that’s legit.

          • DrVanNostrand

            She not only would do the same thing, she did the exact same thing. Cydney voted for Aubry as well. The difference is I think Aubry would have voted for Cydney in the end because she would’ve respected the game.

          • this bear is tops blooby

            Haha, yeah totally forgot about that.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      Damn. I’ve been one of the most hard-line on here about “there are no bitter juries, only poor jury management”, but I’m reeeeaally forced to reconsider.

      • Other Scott

        Bitter juries and poor jury management are not mutually exclusive. Voting people out of the game and forcing them on the jury is poor jury management. It’s also (typically) necessary.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Oh, I agree. That’s why up to now I’ve said that what people call bitter juries is really just poor jury management. But Cydney’s Ponderosa video sure makes it seem like they were mad at Cydney and made Aubry pay the price for it, which is pretty much the definition of bitter jury (unlike you, I don’t think Michele was Cydney’s main ally, and in any case I’m sure the jury saw Aubry-Cydney-Joe as the main alliance).

          I do think you’re really onto something when you say that as someone with no blood on her hands, but who also was not a goat, Michele was a huge and underestimated threat.

    • DrVanNostrand

      … and then Cydney votes for Michele like an adult baby.

    • Alycia Swift

      But it was also “pot meet kettle” as far as Cydney. She was a baby herself for refusing to vote for someone who made the same moves she did.

  • Other Scott

    Neal just confirmed Nick voted for Aubry.

    Which makes more sense.

    • So why did Debbie flip?

      • Purplerockmatt

        she didn’t she was the one actually betrayed by aubry

        • Even Debbie wouldn’t fall for Aubry’s claim that Debbie was a threat.

          • But she kinda was.

          • Other Scott

            She was a threat to Aubry’s game. Different than being a “threat.”

          • That’s why I said “kinda”.

          • this bear is tops blooby

            She was until she lost her damn mind. Though she did say she’s knowingly eccentric. So maybe got it back?

          • Fair enough.

        • Great point!

      • Don’t try to apply reason to anything Debbie does.

      • sharculese

        It turns out Aubry was working for the feds the whole time.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Michele’s winner interview with Wiggler has Debbie voting for Michele as well, she said “Debbie couldn’t be swayed” about if Neal were in the Jury.
      http://parade.com/478867/joshwigler/survivor-kaoh-rong-winner-michele-fitzgerald/

      • Other Scott

        Haha, Josh’s tagline on she didn’t need to be carried.

        Except…she kinda did.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Wiki wasn’t recently edited to reflect that based on Neal’s tweet. Now I’m baffled by what the fuck Debbie was doing. It’s probably just that she was mad about the blindside, which we’ve seen happen before. Her jury speech sure made it seem like she was team Aubry though.

  • Kemper Boyd

    Michele didn’t know she had won, imagine being her or Aubry for the past year. They should never shelve a season again.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Maybe people were still in the denial or anger stages when they posted, but this talk downthread about how Kaoh Rong is now a garbage season immediately reminded me of this TED Talk from Daniel Kahneman (the relevant part is from 2:00 to around 6:00, but the whole thing is worth watching, and his book “Thinking, Fast and Slow” should be absolute catnip to anyone participating in this community).

    http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory#t-387787

    • I may be a bit down on Michele but I don’t think it is a garbage season at all. For me, it is still better than Cambodia and Worlds Apart at least (come at me, bros!)

      • Sylvisual

        Easily better than Worlds Apart (not hard), not sure about Cambodia in retrospect. But this was 13 really good episodes of TV and one (half of the Caleb ep and everything past 9:40 here) travesty. That gets you, what, mid-tier?

        • I have said it before, but I like a good story. Kaoh Rong’s story was a little better than Cambodia’s story. At least, the Final 4 all had a shot at FTC in comparison to Cambodia’s Final 6.

          • Max_Jets

            Beyond that, we had an idea of everyone’s place in the game even for less prominent contestants like Joe. In Cambodia, we had no idea where Kimmi’s head was at for the entire post merge until the finale, which also sucked a lot of suspense out of the Final 6 tribal. We had no idea what Wiglesworth was doing or where she stood with anyone, making her elimination just feel bizarre. Same goes for Keith and often Tasha and Joe.

          • I have said time and time again, Witches Coven is one of the most inexplicable episodes of the show ever. They didn’t even do a Monica edit to Wiglesworth where she got content in the episode beforehand. She was suddenly a threat who had to be removed.

          • Purplerockmatt

            oh it is plenty explicable when you realize that wigles was blowing off production and they couldn’t get anything out of her at all

          • That’s true. However, they made a point to edit her out of camp life as well. In the infamous sequence of Savage in the hammock, Wiglesworth is there but she doesn’t talk at all IIRC. When Savage tells Ciera (during new new Ta Keo)that he is going to tell Spencer to vote for her, Wiglesworth can be seen barely on screen. If they had one or two more shots of her talking to people, then the episode would have a little more explanation.

          • Purplerockmatt

            there was a vindictiveness to it. she wasn’t going to play ball? they were gonna show her as little as possible

          • Yeap. I think there was also some small vindictiveness to Monica’s edit as well, but not to the degree of Wiglesworth’s edit.

      • Ms_Woozah

        I really enjoyed Cambodia all the way through plus it had a satisfying winner. That’s a top-tier for me.

        KR was easily better than WA or SJDS despite the endgame. As a whole I really enjoyed this cast of characters and despite some dud medevac episodes, it had some neat twists and exciting gameplay moments.

        • Purplerockmatt

          these are my feelings

        • I can agree with you about satisfying winner, but I think Cambodia lost a lot of steam around the Joe vote-out. Also, I think the editing was clearly forcing “voting blocs” to happen when it clearly had already happened.

        • Alycia Swift

          I enjoyed Cambodia too. We saw why Tasha and Spencer lost. We did not see why Aubry (who played better than Tasha and Spencer) did. What I saw is a couple of men (and Cydney who I lost respect for since she would have done the same to Aubry once Michelle called the vote shot) acting like babies.

          We also saw why clearly Natalie won (and Missy and Jacklyn lost) and why Mike won (yes, immunities but Mamma C did play well despite not being really likable.)

        • Kemper Boyd

          Amen.

      • Kemper Boyd

        It’s very very difficult for a season of Survivor not to be better than WA.

        • What about Gabon?

          • Kemper Boyd

            I like Gabon better than World’s Apart. Based on Bob and the insane cast. The cast is mad but not as irredeemable that WA. I’d have WA as probably my 3rd worst season with Nicaragua and Redemption Island below it. Maybe it’s be above One World too.

        • Other Scott

          See, I think the first 10 episodes of Worlds Apart were pretty fantastic. It’s one of my favourite pre-merges ever, and I really thought it was going to be one of my top 5 seasons at one point.

          • Kemper Boyd

            To me it was fine.

          • Alycia Swift

            I like the winner of WA and respected some of Mamma C’s game. I liked some of the players and some I was neutral on. I hated others (Will, Rodney, Dan, Joaquin) and what went down with Shirin. Many of the characters were vile but others were entertaining (Mike, Joe, Jen and Haley and even though I hated him even Rodney at times.)

            But what I will say is the jury was not bitter that Mike beat them by winning immunity. He also did a bunch of crazy things, both smart and stupid, and was entertaining. He had a lot of flaws in his game. It was weird to see an alpha male as an underdog. They could have given it to Mamma C if they were bitter. But then … would those guys have voted a woman anyway?

            But I can’t say its a bottom five season.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I really liked Cambodia. Agree on WA though.

        • “Come at me bro” is definitely meant for one of the seasons more than the other.

    • this bear is tops blooby

      I was never really thrilled with it since the beginning with Alecia and those douchebags left a bad taste in my mouth, and we got to see more of their douchey behavior throughout.

    • DrVanNostrand

      A bad winner can downgrade a season, but I don’t think it can wipe out all the entertainment that preceded it. I dislike Michele as much as anyone, and I still think this was a solid season, upper-mid tier.

      • Something Quirky

        I feel like there should be a clarification that people just dislike Michele as the winner over Aubry, as opposed to disliking her in general.

  • sharculese

    So I need to be able to explain to my roommate why I’m so gloomy today in terms she can understand, and this is what I came up with:

    “Imagine that this is last year’s Super Bowl and I’m a Seahawks fan.

    Now imagine that I had no idea who the Seahawks were before the season started and was kind of wary about them because they spent their preseason press talking about Harry Potter and coloring books. And then they had a really rough start but managed to overcome it and I reached a point where I thought ‘I really like what the Seahawks are doing.’

    And then on the other hand you had the Patriots, who I had also never heard of, and didn’t know existed until several weeks into the season, because they were the blandest slice of Wonder Bread ever, and who I think only backed into the championship by having a really weak schedule.

    And then that interception happens.

    That’s how I feel today.”

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    So, I got to thinking about the immunity idol twists these last two seasons. Both were great in my opinion. This season was fun–the idol and it’s clue to how to obtain it in two different spots. In theory this was great. In actuality it led to both good television (Jason and Tai showing their “Super Idol” at Tribal Council) and bad (Jason pretty much bullying the idol away from Alecia), but I wouldn’t mind seeing more like this in the future. Last season had the idols hidden at the challenge sites, and that was a fantastic idea. The challenges are already exciting, this concept just made them nail-bitingly more so. I loved this idea. But how often can we see it? How soon before the other competitors without a clue start looking for a competitor that may know something that they don’t? I would love to see this again, but only after a few more seasons. That one, I feel, needs to be used sparingly.

    How did y’all feel about the idols these last two seasons?

    • Purplerockmatt

      i liked both changes as well and would like some mix of them going forward.

  • Something Quirky

    “Tonight, after MILF Island… Brawn Beach with Julia!”

    • sharculese

      I WILL ALSO UPVOTE ALL THE 30 ROCK REFERENCES

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        That’s okay, do what ever you want.

        …Just no dog fighting.

        • sharculese

          No Krang was siting right there and you didn’t take it. I’m giving you an upvote, but I’m doing it reluctantly.

      • this bear is tops blooby

        Good God Lemon!

      • Alycia Swift

        I’d be up for a rewatch of 30 Rock over Gabon I think.

        • sharculese

          I would be more okay with Gabon if there was a reward where they won cheesy blasters.

          • Alycia Swift

            Or the Generalissimo was a contestant.

            I was up for Gabon because I enjoy you guys so much more than that season.

          • sharculese

            I don’t think the Generalissimo is an American citizen…

          • Alycia Swift

            You are right. Ok, the Best Friend’s Club.

          • sharculese

            For some reason I thought Kelsey Grammer is Canadian, but no, that one works.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        We no longer want to hit that.

  • this bear is tops blooby

    Survivor Kaoh Rong: Let’s make Friends Edition!

  • Kemper Boyd

    I just saw the S33 promo. I disliked everyone they featured except Mari. Honestly this is a totally bullshit season idea. At the very least have a bunch of over 50s and do a 3 tribe format with Boomers.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      The best I can say about that is–remember how unpromising the Kaoh Rong cast seemed based on the previews? What I’m more worried about is the two-tribe format. Didn’t Boston Rob and Kim Spradlin break that version of the show?

      • Kemper Boyd

        I didn’t see the previews for Kaoh Rong. I’ll await more info. Still think it’s a bullshit premise for a season though.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          The consensus around here was that, like Vanuatu and Nicaragua, the season was going to be post-All Star season letdown.

          If we have to go down the dumb generation vs. generation path, your Boomers/Gen X/Millennials three-tribe format is a much better way to go. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the original idea, first proposed years ago.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Oh I had that thought about Kaoh Rong from no previews but I watched this preview and actively disliked the people talking about the premise so know I will actively dislike the first 4 episodes where it is shoved down our fucking throats.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I didn’t even like Mari.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I didn’t really like her, I just didn’t hate her immediately.

          • DrVanNostrand

            The problem is the boomers are probably too old now to be competitive. Gen X and Millennials should be much more evenly matched.

      • sharculese

        We’ve had 3 2-tribe seasons since then, one with all newbies, and they range from great to good. I don’t think it’s broken yet, although I do think it’s breakable.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Yes, but BvW (and to a lesser extent FvF) interferes with the formation of day-one majority alliances. As far as I can tell S33 has no such element.

          • sharculese

            I forgot about Caramoan, I was just thinking about the BvWs and Cambodia. But I would argue that you’re talking in special circumstances – especially charismatic players in RI and One World, and the lack of a swap in RI and SoPa.

            Like I said, I think it’s possible to break the two-tribe format, I just don’t think anyone has quite perfected how to do so yet.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Cambodia doesn’t really count, since they went to three tribes as soon as it was mathematically possible.

            It’s kind of a chicken/egg problem. One charismatic player is all it takes to form a docile alliance, and with a little luck at the swap, you’ve got a broken game.

    • Max_Jets

      I am fine with the theme, but I can’t with the title. What’s the worst season title so far? One World? Not nearly as bad. This is just embarrassing. They could have called it “Generations” or almost anything else.

      • Purplerockmatt

        Mark suggested Generations instead, and that is a much better title

        • Kemper Boyd

          I think maybe Generations should be used for like returning players with 3 tribes, first 10 seasons, 2nd 10 seasons, 3rd 10 seasons.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Oh they haven’t tried at all with the title.
        Survivor Producer thinking of name for season: “What’s the idea?”,
        Second Producer: “a bunch of Gen Xers vs a bunch of Millennials”
        Frst Producer: “I know we’ll call it Gen X vs Millennials”.

      • AubrysWinnersEdit

        Brains vs. Brawn vs. Beauty and White Collar vs. Blue Collar vs. No Collar were just as bad (collars may have been worse), but those seasons had an alternate title we could use. Worlds Apart wasn’t a great title, but it was short and reasonable. I assume I’ll wind up calling 33 either MGX or Generations.

    • sharculese

      What I’m worried about is that generations is going to turn out be a much more rigid boundary that BBB or collars, and we’re going to get something closer to a men vs. women season.

      • Kemper Boyd

        As I said below I don’t like these seasons that create rigid boundaries. I think it’s one of the things that screwed Aubry this season. It’s totally different to just stick 20 new people on a beach and let them figure out who they like and why.

        • Violina23

          Alecia got screwed over the most by the rigid boundaries, I’d say…

          • Kemper Boyd

            If you differ slightly from the groupthink it can be dangerous, as on every season, but the way the tribes try to live up to their titles can take away the chances of certain players to fit in.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yes, she did not belong on the brawn tribe for any reason. Julia would have been a better fit.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I was going to ask if you thought rigid generational boundaries hurt Nicaragua, but OH MY GOD WHY IS SURVIVOR REPEATING ANYTHING FROM NICARAGUA????

        • sharculese

          We’re being punished for something.

      • Other Scott

        I like rigid boundaries. It makes the pre-merge and betrayals mean more.

        Heroes vs Villains was a rigid boundary season for example, and my main complaint against Cambodia is that the boundaries didn’t really exist.

        • Kemper Boyd

          HvV also didn’t have a swap, that played a huge part of it. Cambodia had a split to 3 then a swap to 2 then the merge which was just as important in the lax boundaries.

          • Other Scott

            Right. I’m actually pretty anxious to see a no swap season again. It might go badly, but I want to see if gameplay has actually changed significantly over the past 5 years or whether it is actually the swap that has been making things more dynamic.

    • Max_Jets

      I watched the promo again and I think everyone showcased looked like they could be interesting if they were talking about something else. They always get the worst sound bytes when they try to emphasize the theme. The Kaoh Rong preview had Liz saying something about what a Sci-Fi Survivor would look like. So brainy! Luckily it didn’t make the show.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Yeah, this is why I’ll hate a few of them for the first few epsiodes where it’s all “We’re free spirits that’s why we’ll win” and “they are such unorganised young idiots so we can’t lose”.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Whenever I see the word ‘promo’, I always mistake it for ‘porno’.

    • Smocke55

      And that theme will totally be thrown out the window after ep 4 when they eventually swap

      • Kemper Boyd

        Yeah except put for Jeff constantly bringing it up for the whole game.

  • giorgos

    This season was very good, but oh boy the endgame. I cannot explain it. All the way through I was fearing that this wil be the dreaded Tai-Michelle final-2 that will lead to OWM. It would have been anticlimatic but I could get why she won. But now WTF

    • Kemper Boyd

      Does your pic have you with Thomas Muller’s name and number written on your naked back?

      • giorgos

        It’s not me, I found it on the internetss

        • Kemper Boyd

          Just love Thomas Muller?

          • Something Quirky

            Or silver boots.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Golden in 2010.

          • Something Quirky

            I did not have any interest in German football players, or football in general, at that time, other than when Australia qualified for the World Cup.
            I still prefer not to have an interest in Bayern Munich players =P

          • giorgos

            I hate Bayern too, I’m usually against them regardless of the oponent. It’s just that Muller is such an one-of-a-kind player.

          • Something Quirky

            I liked watching him in the 2014 World Cup. I don’t know if I remember seeing him in any Bundesliga games that I saw.

          • giorgos

            Yeah, I was a huge fan before he started winning every trophy available when a lot of people were calling him overrated and/or mediocre because of his inelegant style and had it as my twitter profile pic and I kinda never changed it.

            Is this story more interesting than survivor winner and immaculate social player Michelle?

            Probably.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I really enjoy Thomas Muller’s style. It doesn’t quite make sense why he’s as good as he is (semi final penalty misses excluded) but Germany makes these strikers who make no sense, like Klose. How is Klose the all time leading World Cup goal scorer?
            Plus Muller is so young, it’s mind blowing because of how good his World Cup 2010 was and how young he was at the time.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Oh my God you guys, as if the Michele/Jenna connection wasn’t apparent enough, I just realized that at FTC Michele came dangerously close to making the “beauty is my handicap” argument (yes yes, Jenna didn’t really say that, and in the context of talking about the BBB game format, Michele actually had a sensible point).

    • Alycia Swift

      The thing is – in both seasons of the BBB format, brains seemed to be the handicap.

  • Violina23

    So I finished watching at around 12:30AM and was too tired to catch up with your confused & befuddled comments…

    I listened to Michele’s exit interview with Rob a little while ago, and Michele seems like a nice person. She seems to have some social awareness and played somewhat competently given her position.

    But I still have NO F’ing clue how she won over Aubry.

    Also, does anyone else find irony in the fact that Jason admires Russell so much, and sees him as the model survivor shoulda-been-winner — but when pressed with a situation where he could reward the strategic player who played hard, vs. the social player who kinda coasted, he chose the social player?

    God damn, this season makes no sense. I still enjoyed it though, and probably because of you fine folks. Looking forward to next time, and NYC people — let’s hang out one day 😉

    • DrVanNostrand

      That Jason-Russell was noted below, and is rank hypocrisy on Jason’s part. Maybe Aubry wasn’t enough of an asshole.

    • Black Dynamite

      Yay other NYC people. I don’t know why I’m surprised there are people here besides myself living in the most populated place in the U.S

      • Ms_Woozah

        Join this group! We do watch parties! Most of the people are Redditors (all nice people) but would love some more PRP/AVC representation. https://www.facebook.com/groups/890689917676375/?ref=bookmarks

        • Black Dynamite

          Cool!! It would be nice to talk Survivor with people and not get met with blank stares.

        • Alycia Swift

          Thank you.

        • Violina23

          I just sent a request to join! You’ll recognize my profile pic with 2 young girls 😉

    • Kemper Boyd

      I haven’t listened to Michele’s interview but I read Wigglers Parade interview and it came across that she’s a really nice person and people just like her a lot.

    • Alycia Swift

      I’m a NJ person but I’d hang with you guys in NYC. I did look for that Facebook group but I did not find it … and then I got busy again and promptly forgot.

      • Violina23

        Technically, I am a NJ person as well (northern NJ, Bergen County), but I figured NYC speaks to more people 😉

        • Alycia Swift

          Western Morris for me. Cross the street and I’m in Warren.

  • Guys, I may have a situation on my hands. I am currently watching the Survivor Samoa finale with my friend and she is convinced that Russell will win because the reason why the Foa Foa 4 got here was because of Russell.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Just wait until FTC. I thought Russell was going to win until that point as well. If only the Kaoh Rong FTC had been so illuminating….

      • I am really trying not to spoil, but her radar is not finely attuned yet to pick up on how Natalie played the game.

        By the by, she somehow knows that Rob and Amber ended up together yet she did not watch All Stars. I tried to say that it was due to the fact that Survivor alumni tend to date other Survivor alumni. Hopefully that works.

        • DrVanNostrand

          All Stars would also have helped her understand the end of Samoa. It’s a very direct precedent. I applaud your efforts. I’ve had no success at converting people in real life.

          • Well, she was an independent convert. I caught her on Twitter talking about watching Survivor, to which I have discovered she almost finished with watching….Gabon. Thank God she kept going.

            She is also watching Marquesas as prep for HvV. If she follows my plan, she will watch Marquesas, Amazon (I think this is crucial to understand how a certain strategy become commonplace as well as keeping her spoiler-free about winners), Pearl Islands, All Stars, and Palau before she gets to HvV.

          • Kemper Boyd

            No Micronesia? I think that is very important for getting the dynaming of HvV you need to know why Parvati is such a huge thread on everyone’s minds.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I haven’t seen HvV yet, but from what I understand you also need to see Tocantins to have the context for JT and Coach.

          • Kemper Boyd

            You need to have seen Micronesia, Tocantins and Samoa at the very least I think. You need to get the dynamics of Parvati, Cirie and Amanda (and their individual stories: Gangster in an Oprah suit and sexy dangerous Parvati), Tocantins for Coach and JT to make sense but especially Coach and Samoa for Russell.
            Can I ask why you haven’t seen it? It’s a really good season, super fun.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            I got hooked on Survivor with Caramoan, and when I started catching up on old seasons (partly because I couldn’t understand half the things people were saying on message boards), I watched in reverse order from Philippines through Nicaragua. Then I realized that’s a dumb way to do it so I started watching from Amazon forward. I also cherry-picked some seasons after the Second Chance cast was announced. Basically I’m saving HvV for last. I still have Cook Islands, Fiji, Micronesia, and Gabon to go.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Then that makes sense you want ad much knowledge of players before you watch HvV.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Yes, and I can’t stress enough that I don’t recommend watching seasons 21-24 in reverse order. Or any order, really.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yeah that really is entering the suck, when it comes to Survivor.

          • Other Scott

            My Survivor watching order:
            Cook Islands (when airing)
            Cagayan (when airing)
            Palau
            Amazon
            Guatamala
            Pearl Islands
            San Juan Del Sur (when airing)
            China
            One World
            Nicaragua
            Australia
            Fiji
            Marquesas
            Vanuatu
            Worlds Apart (when airing)
            Samoa
            Blood vs Water
            Panama
            Cambodia (when airing)
            Heroes vs Villains
            Tocantins
            Kaoh Rong (when airing)
            Redemption Island

            I’m still trying to get through them all, but I slowed down a lot the last little while. Also, if you don’t mind knowing who winners are and stuff ahead of time, any order is pretty much fine is what I’ve learned.

          • I should make this clear: she has watched 1-3, and 12-19. She loves Micronesia.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            All Stars is awful, awful, awful, IMO. The only reason to make your friend watch it is to lower her expectations of what an all-returnees season is like. Also, have her watch Palau and Guatemala as a set.

          • I am having her watch All Stars so she can get a better sense of the B. Rob and Jerri stories in HvV. I thought about giving her Guatemala but that would really screw with her whole idea of Steph as a hero. Plus, I don’t think she will be super spoiled about Steph in Guatemala.

    • Oh God, she just said “no way she’s winning votes”. Oh dear.

    • Smocke55

      To be fair,everyone thought Russell was winning Samoa based on his overblown edit.Maybe Erik’s speech can change you friend’s viewpoint

      • She is still a bit sore about it, but she did love Erik and Shambo’s speech

      • Other Scott

        It’s hard to imagine that speech changing anyone’s viewpoint, considering it was completely nonsensical.

        This is a good time to say Erik Cardona is one of my favourite players.

  • Smocke55

    Holmes: I’m a big believer that “Survivor” is a product of the
    season the players last saw before they left. Do you think your win
    might change the game?

    Fitzgerald: If people take anything from
    my gameplay, I hope they take that calmness is something you need. If
    you’re calm, people around you are calm. They’ll be at ease and more
    likely to connect with you. If you’re constantly
    frantic and stressed and over-strategizing, and people aren’t sure
    where you’re going to land…those are the people that nobody wants to
    work with. I hope people appreciate my confidence, strength, and
    calmness. I’m not sure if people will follow that because it doesn’t
    translate well to TV. People want to come in and be this huge
    personality. But, what they end up losing is the finesse that is needed
    to move forward.

    I think it just comes down to the fact that Aubry’s game is better is suited for TV.I don’t think Michele did anything really well other than making connections with the jury,but that’s all she needed.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I agree with you. When you think about the most dominant wins in Survivor, Boston Rob in Redemption Island and Kim in One World they are such boring seasons because that kind of calm domination is not flashy at all.
      Calm play is often very very boring.

    • Assistant Dragon Slayer

      I have a lot of thoughts about Michele’s exit interviews that I’ll save until the finale podcast is posted (suffice it to say that I think I’ve reached the acceptance stage). But I’ll note here that while Aubry and Cydney didn’t play the UTR game, they were both in their own ways very careful not to be perceived as flashy players.

  • Kemper Boyd

    I just realised what the worst thing about Gen X v Millennials is. It’s all the morons complaining there is no Gen Y. Gen Y is just another name for the generation we call Millennials (1980-1999/2000).

    • Something Quirky

      I just complain that they changed the name. I feel like the stereotypical characteristics of Millennials are more present in people born after the mid 90’s than in people born in the 80’s.

      • Kemper Boyd

        Agreed. I’m 29, I don’t feel like a millennial as the newspapers draw them.

        • corndogshuffle

          I’m 26 and feel the same way. I guess we technically qualify as millennials but I feel like we are either a “transitional” generation or there is a different one entirely that people don’t realize exists.

          Or we are just proof of how arbitrary/meaningless these generational lines are becoming/have always been, but people do love having labels so I’m probably wrong.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I feel those of us who are 25-30 are our own class because we graduated university at the peak of the crisis and most couldn’t find work for much longer than average. We are a demographic who are still catching up.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            But that was also the case for Gen Xers, just not quite as severely.

          • Kemper Boyd

            No, the market is different but not totally stalled as it was.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. Gen Xers also graduated university right as the economy was tanking, and had a hell of a time finding jobs (thus movies like Slacker and Reality Bites).

          • Kemper Boyd

            Shit yeah, sorry misreading. But the recovery was swifter than this and then there was a huge boom they benefited from.

          • Something Quirky

            That’s why I think we should have kept the Generation Y label instead of being renamed, and just labelled those born in the last 90’s onwards Millennials.

    • Purplerockmatt

      so here is the thing all generational definitions are bullshit, which is why Boomers can be extra long, and others short. Some people that talk/study this stuff put an intermediate short generation between X and Millennials that they call Y. It covers the veyr end of the 70s and the early to mid 80s. which as an 83 person feels right as i don’t see myself as either X or Millennial

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        Mmm, it’s a real thing demographically. The Baby Boom was real, creating a huge age cohort. Millennials are basically the children of the Boomers, and Gen X is the relatively small cohort born in between. There are some cultural effects that are real (Boomers were the focus of the culture their whole lives until just very recently; Gen Xers got short-changed in some ways because of this, but OTOH went to new, uncrowded schools with plenty of equipment). However, the vast majority of attempts to impose some kind of profound meaning on this is bullshit.

        • Purplerockmatt

          I guess I should clarify, they are real to the extent that yes they matter demographically but they aren’t real to the sense that they entirely define behavior nor are they as rigidly defined as people pretend with precise dates. the dates are very loose and in the research that i think is the best shows that they actually overlap a lot

      • Kemper Boyd

        I agree with you as I don’t see my brother (83) as a the same as me (86) in some ways because he left university got a job straight away and doesn’t understand at all the way people from my age down live work wise, we move jobs every 2 years or so, most of us don’t live in the same house/apartment for more than 2 year at a time either.

      • Something Quirky

        I’ll let Usher respond:

        “the 80s, fresh was the talk
        MJ had everybody doing the moonwalk
        In the 90s, I had a high flat top
        Doing the wop, Pee Wee to the Reebok.”

    • Violina23

      I’m born in 81 so I’m really a cusp… But considering I didn’t have internet access until my sophomore year in high school, or a cell phone until my junior year of college, I probably relate more to gen x.

  • Something Quirky

    If I can have a random ‘I told you so moment’ – I was the only person to immediately suggest Mark was named after Mark Burnett =P