Survivor Kaoh Rong Episode 9 Liveblog: “It’s Psychological Warfare”

Follow us on Twitter and Storify below for another exciting week of Obvious Winner Michelle obviously winning Survivor!

 

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
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  • Saturday Night Palsy

    Again Survivor is postponed for the Spurs game. The Spurs are guaranteed! This game isn’t important!

    • gouis

      Where do you live that the Spurs are on CBS? I thought all basketball teams were on local fox sports channels or something.

      • Saturday Night Palsy

        San Antonio.

        • gouis

          Damn they really do love the Spurs. I live in Houston and would basically have to sell my soul to get sports on TV.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Having lived in Boston, it’s not quite as fanatical here as the Massholes are about the Red Sox, but Spurs fans are up there.

          • gouis

            Yeah but don’t you have to get fancy cable to have NESN? CBS is basically free.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I think the cable at my friend’s house is pretty fancy. I don’t know. All I know is that we couldn’t watch it.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          My best friend was just in town from San Antonio! He has the tackiest, most gaudy Spurs hat I’ve ever seen and he doesn’t even like basketball.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That’s how it is here!

  • Black Dynamite

    Well that was a fun tribal though I think voting Debbie was a mistake. But at least Cydney is still around

    • Kingoftonga

      Am I wrong in thinking their utterly paranoid, impulsive vote for Debbie helped them dodge a bullet? Because if they had voted for any of those guys, than Cydney would be gone.

      • Black Dynamite

        That’s a silver lining for sure as a huge Cydney fan. I worry Joe may be a free agent with Debbie gone. Julia is already playing both sides and they still have the idols.

        • I don’t know about Joe…of course, we don’t know anything about Joe.

          • Black Dynamite

            Joe is a tricky read.I think he stays with the woman but it’s more up in the air now.

          • I could go two ways. 1.) He stays with the lone Brain left, Aubry. 2.)He goes with the men. I think he stays with Aubry, because he knows that those men are not good for his reputation.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yeah, he seems to be not overly fond of Jason and Scot.

          • Alycia Swift

            He does not seem to like what they are doing. I don’t see him going with the guys. TAi is using it to his advantage – if he’s in the top 3, he’s the least objectionable and has the best sob story.

          • Ms_Woozah

            If it’s true that someone still has yet to be medevaced, I hope it’s Joe. Would have the least effect on the game.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I hope it’s Michelle.

        • Kingoftonga

          Yeah, I was sad to see the Dark Side identify (correct) Cydney as the biggest threat. I’m pulling for her to win but it’s looking less likely with Chekhov’s Superidol still hanging over the mantle.

          • Black Dynamite

            I’m hoping Tai (now with two idols) sees the light and leaves Jason and Scot

          • Alycia Swift

            I’m wondering if he gave Jason his idol back. If he was smart, he would not.

        • Hornacek

          That’s twice that Joe and Aubry have voted for different people when they were supposed to be close allies.

      • Violina23

        Yes, but for anyone who is NOT Cydney, they are in a worse position than they were one vote ago. They still lost an alliance member and the idols are not flushed. Net loss for everyone, except Cydney (and I LOVE Cydney)

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          I love Cydney too, but I was thinking the exact same thing. It actually might have been the best case scenario for Aubry/Debbie/Michele (maybe even Julia and Joe?) if they had gone all in on Jason/Scot/Tai and flushed the super idol. They would have lost an alliance member in Cydney, but then the guys would have no more super idol and the women would still be up in numbers, assuming they could get Julia back into the fold.

      • Other Scott

        Except that’s not true, right. They’d probably split the votes 3-3 and the super-idol can only be played for one person. Assuming Julia’s on their side.

        They are actually not in great shape for a group that had a 6-3 majority.

        • Purplerockmatt

          correct, but voting out debbie screws them… unless Julia only stuck with them because they voted out Debbie, which she might have

          • Other Scott

            Yeah, I’m willing to call this the right move. Julia was flaky and if she’s with Scot and Jason and you try the split you’re screwed. Almost better to send the vote a way that you’ll be safe, even if it might hurt more in the long run than if you had just taken the risk.

        • Alycia Swift

          I don’t think Julia was on their side until the target was taken off Scot.

          • andythesaint

            Agreed. This way, Julia still gets to play double agent while having all the options. If she had voted out Cydney, she shows her cards. Here, it looks like she was with the women, but could easily flip in the next vote while no longer being a target.

          • Kemper Boyd

            She has managed to get through a vote without having to burn anyone left. Had she had to move with the guys and vote Cydney then there are 4 people she has betrayed. Getting Debbie with the women is the perfect scenario for her.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I think the issue here is Julia wasn’t on board for the 3-3-3 so it was Cydeny or Debbie and I feel based on Debbie’s inability to see Julia wasn’t with them that saving Cydney was beneficial. Obviously had they been able to control Julia 3-3-3 would have been a much better move.

  • gouis

    Watching this set of newbies play is kind of fun. The tribals are bananas.

    (Oh god, do I sound like a SJDS apologist? Someone please help)

    • andythesaint

      Hey, these newbs may be flopping around haplessly, but at least we didn’t get three straight episodes with segments built around the acquisition of food.

      • Was it just 3, it felt like 6.

        • andythesaint

          There may have been 6 cumulatively, but maybe only three consecutively? The legendary rice-trail mix-taco streak.

          • I am procastinating a little bit, so I decided to do some research.
            You got the two swap episodes (aka RiceGate Part 2 because we are in Nicaragua), the merge episode (#TrailMixScandal), the Josh boot (#TacoOverload), the Jeremy boot (The food on the cruise ship that Jeremy and Natalie gave up to Jonclyn) and the Wes boot (where we found out that Wes was the chicken nugget eating champion and Keith got pissed off that Jon was so confident). Holy crap, there was 6. I only went with 6, because it seemed like that was the number of pre-merge episodes. I wasn’t expecting to be right.

          • andythesaint

            Before that, it was flint.

            SJDS was awesome.

          • Holy crap, I forgot about flint gate. There was flint issues in the first episode, the second episode, and in the Drewchebag episode. That is what it should be called Survivor: Let’s Make A Deal.

          • sharculese

            I still prefer Survivor: Jeff, I’d Like to Give Up My Reward

          • That’s good as well. Worlds Apart to me will be Survivor: Percentage Troubles

    • Kemper Boyd

      It was madness and a reminder that whilst newbie seasons aren’t always the height of strategic play (beyond Our Lady of Kim Spradlin) they can be extremely fun in a bananas way.

  • Looking on Debbie’s edit, this result should have been obvious. She seemed edited to be the merge boot, but she only made it past 1 tribal after the merge. Had Debbie not been so stubborn, this could have ended up a lot differently.

    PS: Is this the week we give Aubry MVP? Maybe Julia? I feel like this episode was a hot mess for a LOT of people.

    • Kingoftonga

      I was half-convinced Debbie was winning this before tonight, but I often mistake the “comic relief edit” with the “winner’s edit.” (See also: Keith Nale in SJDS, Stephen in Cambodia). I guess it stems from the one season Tony served both roles.

      • The big difference is that Keith came one challenge away from SJDS…Stephen and Debbie, not so much.

    • Purplerockmatt

      Here is a left field choice: Tai. His one act of sabotage is blamed on other people so they still think he is alright, he keeps his idol, possible has a second idol, and someone in the opposition got voted out and he was able to sit back and benefit without pissing people off like Scot and Jason did

      • Those are good points as well as the fact that he blatantly lied about how he voted for last week and they didn’t call him on it.

        • Purplerockmatt

          i think his position improved the most of anyone over the course of one episode

          • You may have convinced me. My only reason not to vote for him is because of his unnecessary decision to dump the water on the fire. I am still confused by it.

          • andythesaint

            But… didn’t it work? Didn’t that shift the vote off of Scot in Aubry’s mind?

          • I guess…I think I may be in denial over what Tai did.

    • Hornacek

      “Is this the week we give Aubry MVP? Maybe Julia?”

      It’s Michelle, obviously. She’s been the MVP every episode, and will be for the rest of the season.

    • indescribable hat

      I don’t think it was such a bad read on Joe. He didn’t go for it, but he didn’t tell Debbie either.

      • That’s a good point. I have a strong hunch that Aubry will be his downfall.
        Also, who would have thought that Joe, the 72 year old, and Aubry, the young woman who suffered a nervous breakdown on Day 2, would be the last two of their tribe left?

  • Mike Hirsch

    I mean, the Debbie vote seems like the right play to me, because at least then it’s directed at someone you know isn’t you. (In this scenario, I am Aubry, I am Cydney. I am OWM. I am woman.)

    • gouis

      Except you just use the same argument every week until your number is up or they have the numbers. You gotta get that super idol and take a chance (like Tyson)

      • Mike Hirsch

        Yeah, that’s a good point. Does the super idol only work after the first vote? If it was 3-3-3, Cydney, Scot, Jason, would Tai have had to play his idol for one of them and THEN the revote?

        • andythesaint

          Who knows? Probably?

      • tocantins

        Or you take the extra 3 days to break the men up so that you don’t ever need to deal with the super idol at all.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Good clarification of the general you!

  • Kingoftonga

    Ironically, Debbie’s instincts were completely correct and Julia was with their alliance the whole time! I’m bummed to have to spend more time with Scot, Jason, and evil-Tai, but that tribal had me on the edge of my seat.

    • gouis

      Pretty sure Julia only switched back because she doesn’t like Debbie.

      • Don’t forget that Julia still needs to have a relationship with Michele in case the Dark Side fails (which I hope happens soon). She’s an easy person to pick off had she not went back to the girls.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Yep, this way she keeps the women on side and keeps in with the men. Had she voted Cydney she’s burned 4 people left and 2 on the jury (if Nick feels burned), this way she’s burned Debbie and no one still in the game.

      • Hornacek

        I wonder if the reveal of the 2 idols helped to scare her back.

        • Something happened because Julia is acting shocked at the very beginning of tribal. Either this was a really sloppily edited Tribal or we missed something fairly big.

          • sharculese

            I think Julia just hasn’t learned how to hide when she’s emotionally amped, yet. Did you see that giddy look on her face when she cast her vote?

          • I didn’t. Of course the tribal segments lately feel weirdly edited. There was last week where they shot to everybody putting their torches, except for Joe, who was already sitting down.

          • sharculese

            It was probably mostly “shit is going crazy, thank god I have immunity” but she had this giant smile on her face when she was in the voting booth.

          • I completely miss that…but that was probably her thought.

        • Alycia Swift

          I agree.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I think it may not have been dislike but it was clearly a good strategic move for her, she gets to keep the boys on side without voting against the alliance she is currently in. She gets someone out without ever burning anyone left (except Joe but he’s Joe so whatever).

  • Ike1

    Voting out Debbie seems like a mistake, but with a super idol in play, and nobody certain if anyone would actually play it or if they’d just play two regulars idols individually, the girls and Joe didn’t have a lot of good choices. If Julia hadn’t won immunity, they could’ve told her they were voting Debbie and then swerved and voted Julia instead and gotten a tie, 3-3-2-1. I presume that would force everyone to pick between voting Julia and Cydney, and Julia would’ve gone. But that would’ve depended on Julia not sniffing out this deception and voting Cydney. Maybe Julia only felt free to vote Debbie because she had immunity. Wow, this is complicated.

    Hmm. I love Tai, but now that he has both idols, it makes the game less suspenseful in a way, much like it did for Tony V. who likely would’ve gotten voted out if not for his super idol. What if there were a rule that nobody was allowed to hold on to two idols at the same time? You’d think this would be unlikely, and yet people keep ending up with two idols somehow, which confers too much power. Also, a rule like that would introduce more paranoia, which is usually good for a more suspenseful game. Any player with an idol allied with another player with an idol would be paranoid that the other one wouldn’t give it up to form a super idol after the votes are read. So the super idol would be potentially incredibly powerful but not quite as much because it would also be more paranoia-inducing.

    • Sylvisual

      I’m not so sure Tai has this in the bag. I think he’s guaranteed 5 (last chance to play super idol if he keeps it) until the guys are voted out, but then he goes up against Girl Power.

      • Ike1

        That’s a good point. I wrote that comment awfully quickly. If I’d thought more about how I was phrasing that, I would’ve clarified that I wasn’t really trying to imply that Tai is guaranteed to pull a Tony V. and go the whole way here. It becomes a different game after 5, and besides maybe Joe, I don’t think there are any suckers like Woo here (not that Joe seems likely to ally with Tai anyway).

        • Roswulf

          I also think there is a rising chance that Tai makes it to the end and loses. There’s going to be a LOT of resentment toward Tai if he rides Scott and Jason’s assholery to the finals. If the final three is, say, Obvious Winner Michele, Jason and Tai…well, Obvious Winner.

    • Kemper Boyd

      They could have got Joe on board for Julia so it could have been 4-4-1 even if Julia votes for Cydney, with a revote that would have been 4-2 against Julia.

    • Hornacek

      (SPOILER) Unfortunately, Jason revealed on Twitter that Tai gave him back his idol as soon as they got back to the camp.

      • Violina23

        *grumble grumble*

  • Kingoftonga

    So what if they catch on to the fact that Tai put out the fire, and kill his chicken in retaliation? Would that be a proportionate response?

    I’m sad Tai turned to the Dark Side, but I’m hoping he can be pushed back. There’s enough evidence there that he’s half-hearted about his alliance. Although I’m not sure if flipping his in his best interest at this point.

    • Alkanarra

      I really wanted the votes to go all Scot and for Tai to just cackle manically, claim it was all part of his master plan, and keep the two idols for himself. That would redeem everything.

      • Hornacek

        (SPOILER) I mentioned this above, but unfortunately, Jason revealed on Twitter that Tai gave him back his idol as soon as they got back to the camp.

    • Hornacek

      Hey, Luke turned to the dark side in the (now eliminated) expanded universe books, but he managed to come back. Tai can too.

      And “Tai” totally sounds like a name a Star Wars author would give to a new Jedi character.

    • Purplerockmatt

      if they kill that chicken to get back at Tai i will destroy them all

      • Hornacek

        Killer, killer, chicken dinner?

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    I’m not positive how good of a game Julia is playing, but Debbie is the best target for her (and not for personal reasons). If Cyd and Debbie are the only two options for Julia, voting Cyd cements her with the girls. Voting Deb allows her to go back to Jason and Scot and say that she voted to keep her cover (and it still wasn’t one of them).

    I hope that Aubrey can break through to Tai, but I also worry that he’d be a terrible liar and telegraph it to them. The best would be if Jason or Scot gets voted out and asks for the other half for a super idol and Tai just says no. But that’s wishful thinking.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Completely. If she goes for Cydney then she has burned the 4 of Michele, Debbie, Aubry and Joe. if she votes Debbie no one left is mad at her.

  • Violina23

    I was wondering this aloud on twitter, but do you think it is a rule that the super-idol needs to be “combined” prior to the vote? Because it did NOT make sense for Jason to give the idol to Tai during that tribal and not hang onto it until needed. Unless it was just hubris and they wanted their “big” moment with the rock-paper-scissors fake-out (which I admit, was kinda funny). I guess hubris with this crowd probably makes more sense.

    That said, it would be really sweet if next week the girls (+Joe) *did* vote for Jason or Scot, and then when they look to Tia to play the idol, he goes “Naw, guys, I’m good”.

    • Alkanarra

      Too bad they’re going to get back to the camp, say “Tai, let’s have the idol back now”, and Tai will hand it over without a thought. Tai needs to tweek his evil meter in a different direction.

      • Violina23

        Yeah, evil-dar isn’t quite as accurate as gay-dar.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I’m hoping not, I’m hoping that he keeps them now and when Aubry speaks to him she convinces him they should be going after Kyle/Scot.

        • Alycia Swift

          I hope she tells him that if they go to the end that one of them would get votes over him (not that it would be true) because their moves were stronger or whatever.

      • Hornacek

        Jason revealed on Twitter that this did happen.

        • Violina23

          πŸ™

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’m betting that’s the rule. I just don’t see Jason giving up the idol if he could combine it with Tai afterwards. I suppose there’s some possibility that it was a show of loyalty or trust, but I’m betting on it having to do with the rules of this idol.

      • Violina23

        Based on what @hornacek:disqus said about Tai giving it back, I’m pretty much settled on it just being a big display of confidence/chest-puffing/hubris.

  • Violina23

    For those playing along at home, no sooner had Jeff said “Previously.. on Survivor” did my 6YO come thumping down the stairs to tell me that she was cold and wanted to change into a warmer night-gown. This was a half-hour before my MIL, who hadn’t spoken to us in 2-3 weeks, decided to randomly call and catch up… I think the 2.5YO is biding her time until 3AM to wake me up πŸ™

    • Purplerockmatt

      i was curious so thanks for answering

      • Violina23

        It’s very frustrating when your children don’t allow you to engage with strangers on the internet about a game show where people act childish!

        • Purplerockmatt

          on the range from 2.5 year old to 6 year old where are Scot and jason?

          • Violina23

            Rivals the 2.5YO. Taking off your shoes and throwing them because I don’t stop the car to give you a tissue…. that’s pretty close to putting out fires and hiding tools, right?

          • Purplerockmatt

            oh my nephew that is the same age just does that for fun (he is always taking off his shoes and socks in the car)

          • sharculese

            In all fairness, shoes are horrible prisons for your feet.

          • Purplerockmatt

            agreed, i only use them to hide my feet from prying eyes. Stop looking at my feet you freaks!

          • Violina23

            She only does it to express displeasure, be it with my insistence on not running red lights because she wants me to “GO”, because she can’t get the handle on her water bottle to stay up, or because her sister “looked at her”. Then, within 10 seconds of throwing the shoes, she will start screaming “I. WANT. MY. SHOOEEESSSSS!”

            Parenthood is fun.

  • Hornacek

    Random thoughts:

    Tai says he voted for Debbie, and Jason and Scot fall for it!

    How not to endear yourself to the viewers: call the women on your tribe “bitches”.

    Watching Scot get upset that the girls (plus Joe) aren’t suffering under his shenanigans is fun. Watching him put out the fire and not care reminds me why I hated him and Jason pre-swap.

    All those times I’ve said we should see the schoolyard pick and we assumed it was probably boring? This was not one of those times.

    When Debbie swaps for Cydney she grabs two sandbags out of the box. Is that allowed? It looks like every other time players only have one bag in their hands.

    Yellow team wins reward. Scot lifts Jason and Tai to celebrate while Julia stands off to the side.

    I had to rewind to listen to what Tai was saying because I was laughing so hard at him with that chicken perched on his shoulder.

    Tai turns evil. This truly is the darkest timeline.

    Debbie should do all her strategizing while wearing a mask and snorkel.

    Going into the immunity challenge, I’m hoping Julia wins so this Aubry v Debbie situation doesn’t blow up and let Jason and Scot gain the upper hand.

    That challenge was intense. Lots of close calls.

    Julia wins immunity. Aubry forgets to pretend to be happy.

    When did Debbie get Jason’s sholderpads?

    Oh no! Tai’s chicken overheard the plan to split the votes! Now he’ll go tell Tai!

    I knew that Jason and Scot (probably) weren’t going home tonight because of the super-idol, but it makes me mad that going to tribal, it looks like neither of them are the target. This will only make them more insufferable. Compared to them, Russell Hantz was a saint.

    Neal’s shirt.

    Neal is confused with Tai’s percentages.

    Everyone’s pairing off to whisper. I love it!

    No votes shown. This is gonna be crazy.

    DEBBIE – JURY MEMBER

    Next week: Jason is seen kicking the chicken. Could this be what brings Tai back to the light side?

    • sharculese

      “Tai says he voted for Debbie, and Jason and Scot fall for it!”

      Yeah… did Kyle not realize that bragging that he knew everything that went on this season would eventually be proved false as the season, y’know, aired?

    • Alycia Swift

      Jason also had two bags at times during the challenge.

      Neal also had ice cream shorts.

      • Hornacek

        If holding more than one sandbag is allowed, they should grab 3-4 each time they reach into the box.

        Yes, but Neal’s shorts had multiple small pictures of ice cream (I’m assuming; I didn’t see any obvious ice cream drawings on them). His shirt screamed “I sell ice cream!”

    • Kemper Boyd

      Remember these are two men with daughters calling these women bitches. Being the good role models they aspire to be.

      • Hornacek

        Alecia’s father has already said he would confront Jason and Scot at the reunion. Wonder if the fathers/husbands of any of the remaining women will join him?

        How loud will the audience boo at the reunion when Jeff first talks to Jason and Scot?

        • Kemper Boyd

          WHY SHOULD THEY? Having men step in and confront them for what they did to their women is just as bad. Honestly why do men only think of women in context of their relationships to men?

          • indescribable hat

            This, a thousand times this.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Alecia’s father at least makes sense because of when either Scot or Jason basically said they would be ashamed to have a daughter like Alecia, but otherwise I agree.

          • Hornacek

            Yikes. I just meant that Jason and Scot probably think they have played a flawless game and that Alecia’s father is an aberration and that the friends/family of the other Survivors (and all the viewers) will agree with their actions.

            If a female family member of mine was on the show and some douchebag was calling her a bitch, I would be calling them out at the reunion. Would I be treating my family member just as bad by doing that?

            What I said I meant more of a “you mess with with one member of my family, you mess with my entire family” thing, not a “as a man I have to defend the females in my family because they can’t defend themselves” thing.

            Sorry if I offended anyone. Not intended.

          • Violina23

            I think the emphasis on “fathers/husbands” confronting Jason is what set off our feminism alarms πŸ˜‰

            But (what I assume to be) your intended point is still valid — that hopefully there is a moment at the finale to call out the hypocrisy on how Jason spoke about setting an example for his daughter in the same episode that he horribly berated and mistreated a young woman who is (maybe?) only a handful of years older than his own daughter.

          • Hornacek

            You’re right, I did say “fathers/husbands” but in my mind I was thinking of the situation with Alecia’s father talking with Jason and Scot on Twitter, so my first instinct was to write “fathers”, but then I thought some of these women probably have husbands who would be just as pissed at them.

            I should have just said “family members”. My bad.

          • Kemper Boyd

            The problem is I imagine that Kyle and Scot would respect a man saying “what you said to my daughter/wife/girlfriend was offensive to me” than a woman saying “what you said to me was offensive”.

          • Hornacek

            I can’t imagine Jason or Scot respecting anything.

            EDIT: Except themselves, or each other.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yep. Agreed.

            But I do wonder if Alecia’s father will now be banned from the reunion.

  • Welp. I had a bad feeling once the fire was extinguished, so I looked to see who got voted out, and…yeah. If you can pull stunts like that and stay in the game, that’s…that’s just no bueno.

    What’s up with this casting department? Do they need to hire new psychologists? Is Max available?

    I’m in for the PRPs, but I’m out for the season. I’m not going to subject myself to another possible Will fiasco out of hope that that might not be the case.

    • Sylvisual

      Don’t get your hopes up. There are a lot more positive players left, and the general themes so far suggest comeuppance. Plus, one of the two dead fish gave up an idol!

      • But they may have poisoned the purest person around.

        • And I mean, I have work and stuff to worry about. I have plenty of indie folk on my phone to listen to if I want to feel bad about everything in the world.

        • Hornacek

          That’ll just make his turn back to the light side all the more triumphant!

          • Let’s hope, or his little comment during the IC was foreshadowing for an evil turn.

          • Hornacek

            I think the chicken is key to Tai’s redemption arc.

          • Black Dynamite

            I can see it now. Jason with the votes and no idols demand for Tai to use the super idol. Tai gives a big speech about good overcoming evil and denies him. They also somehow fly in Alecia to really rub it in.

        • Violina23

          I’m praying that the preview is accurate and he feels the appropriate amount of guilt/shame to help right the situation.

          • Hornacek

            I think he sees Jason kick the chicken (no, that is not a euphemism).

          • Let’s hope.

          • Something’s up with Probst because he said this week. He said in his Dalton Ross interview “the compass of morality stares Tai straight in the face”. I don’t think it actually did, unless I am reading his episode wrong.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I hope his last act of evil is keeping the super-idol.

    • Hornacek

      We can still root for Tai’s chicken.

      • DrVanNostrand

        DAMN!!!!!!!

      • Violina23

        Mark the Chicken 4-eva

    • Also as Scot was first talking about his pissy little plans, Jason called the other group (5 of whom are women) “bitches.” I….just…CAN’T.

      Yes, I’m too sensitive, but I just don’t want to watch unpleasant people do horrible things all day unless they magically place money into my bank account every two weeks.

      • Hornacek

        I’m sure on their Twitter accounts they’re still talking about #TeamJason and #TeamScot.

        • DrVanNostrand

          #TeamGoat

      • sharculese

        It’s just adorable watching Kyle, who a few weeks ago was whining about Alecia not being a positive example for his daughters, throw a board-flipping tantrum because he’s losing at a game.

        • Hornacek

          I hope someone takes his stuffed bear, beheads it, and leave the head next to him when he’s asleep in the shelter.

          • sharculese

            I hope someone tells him that if it doesn’t come in on your cheeks it’s not actually a beard.

          • Wow, I…read this REALLY wrong at first.

          • Or did you?

          • God, I hope so.

          • Alycia Swift

            I actually Had that same thought but wondered if there was a rule against doing something to a personal comfort item. But I can’t see anyone else doing that because they do not seem like dispicable people.

          • sharculese

            The contract you sign says that you won’t mess with anyone else’s personal property, but production just looks the other way if they think it will make good tv.

          • Hornacek

            It wasn’t shown on TV but Bill Powsley threw Colton’s immunity idol into the ocean. I didn’t hear anything about Bill being punished by Production.

            Also, stolen shoes, burned hats, etc.

          • sharculese

            Right, like I said. You’re not supposed to, but if it will look good on tv…

          • Something Quirky

            You leave Good Luck Bear out of this! It’s not his fault!

          • Hornacek

            That bear made his choice. He chose the dark side. He’s dead to me now.

        • Alycia Swift

          My question is how will he like it when his daughters are called bitches or bullied.

          • sharculese

            He will take it hypocritically. Which is obviously not a call to say anything about his kids, just a prediction of how he’ll behave.

      • Roswulf

        I’m pretty close to joining you on this. I’m not finding this season’s brand of cruelty and stupidity fun to watch.

        Damn it, they just voted off the water felon! I’m supposed to be happy!

        • Violina23

          I found Debbie’s exit so anticlimactic because it still makes no f’ing sense… *sigh* Aubry *sigh*

  • Black Dynamite

    Jason and Scot leave tribal unscathed but still look bad. Acting so childish when things don’t exactly go their way is why I’m sure neither of them will win. Things change all the time in Survivor. You have to try to keep building when the chips are down instead of burning bridges.

    • Hornacek

      Hopefully Debbie will tell Neal and Nick all about their shenanigans.

      • sharculese

        I don’t see Neal and Nick finding Debbie to be a reliable narrator.

        • DrVanNostrand

          Eventually Nick and Debbie will bond over how much they both love Nick. It’s bound to happen.

        • Hornacek

          Eventually Debbie will get more witnesses on the jury to back her up.

          • andythesaint

            She sure did leave behind a whole host of allies just waiting to back her up.

          • Hornacek

            When I said “back her up” I mean telling the jury about how Jason and Scot have been sabotaging the camp. Debbie may be mad at them for voting her out, but I bet they’ll agree that Jason and Scot are acting like babies and the jury needs to be told about it.

      • Alycia Swift

        I liked her closing words but she sealed her own doom when she would not listen to anyone.

        Win or lose, Aubry is becomming one of the best narrators they’ve had in a while.

    • sharculese

      For all his talk last week about not being bitter, Nick seemed super stoked to see the Dark Side move on.

      • Purplerockmatt

        he might be friends with them…

        • sharculese

          …eeeeewwww

          • Purplerockmatt

            it’s Nick! Douchetastic Nick! why would this be surprising!

          • sharculese

            It’s still gross!

      • andythesaint

        I think often the jury also just cheers for the most unexpected outcome. But also, I bet he was happy for them. Because he’s a douche.

        • Hornacek

          Tribal usually takes a couple of hours. The jury can’t talk so they just have to sit there and listen. They want to be entertained, so anything exciting or unexpected will get their attention and make them feel that their time was not wasted, instead of just sitting there watching a boring, by-the-number tribal.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I loved how Aubry was so convinced it was strategic, rather than what it really was: a temper tantrum. She even said something like, “Scot is smart. He’s doing this for a reason.”, which is trifecta of wrongness.

      1. No he’s not smart.
      2. The reason is he’s basically a giant toddler
      3. Tai did it that time.

      She completely struck out in a single sentence.

      • sharculese

        In fairness, if the fire was mysteriously put out in the middle of the night, would you assume it was Tai, rather than the dude you had seen do it once already?

    • Alycia Swift

      Tai did not look great either.

      • Black Dynamite

        He did not. Though what he has going for him is the perception is way different for him than Jason and Scot.

        • Alkanarra

          Tai at least admitted guilt and that he didn’t like this method: he just felt he had no other options. This gives him the opportunity for turnaround, whereas the boys are pretty much past the point of no return for me. Villainy is fine so long as you can be flexible about it, which is why I personally am down on Scot/Jason now because they all they have is their one sabotage gimmick. I don’t see them having much room to surprise me anymore.

  • DrVanNostrand

    Scot pulls this just 3 weeks after I praised him for being a good damn sportsmanship, man! And Kylo Jason turned Tai! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

  • Ethan Kyle

    Of course Scot comes up with Psychological warfare, he;s a Mormon he’s used to brainwashing

  • Other Scott

    Can I just offer a contrarian opinion and say Scot and Jason were sort of awesome here. Not really in a gameplay way, because I’m not quite sure how the us against them dynamic helps them that much, though it seems to be working, but that was a fantastic episode. The charisma and showmanship there made this episode and really gave the rest of the season a storyline to sink your teeth into.

    I’m willing to call Scot the best villain since Russell. (I don’t consider Tony a villain.)

    • Purplerockmatt

      the tribal council was terrifically entertaining, no doubt, and they seem to be steering into the skid rather than out of it

      • Other Scott

        They are playing up the villain role and embracing it. And since Alecia has been gone it’s not like they’re doing anything super awful or damaging.

        I’m kinda behind this.

        • Hornacek

          They *are* playing up the villain role, but they can’t seriously think they are playing to win at this point. They are only (a) playing to make life miserable for everyone else, and (b) playing to be asked back in a later season.

          • Alycia Swift

            Neither of them are on the list though for Season 34 so far (and I hope its kept that way). Ok, they could be in line for a Heroes v. Villians season or Second Chances down the pike.

          • Hornacek

            I think at this point either of them could bump one of the others off that list based on the public’s reaction to them, sort of like Rupert for All-Stars and Russell for HvV.

          • tocantins

            I don’t know. I feel that in their current position, making themselves agreeable (and therefore even bigger threats, remember that Scot is a former NBA player, and that gives him a target on his back that is simply not going away no matter how many friends he makes) would not help their chances at all. Perhaps (probably?) making themselves look bad won’t help either, but at least it gives them a small chance. They could either do that or be like a Joe, make tons of friends and get voted out as soon as they lose immunity.

      • gouis

        The council was nice, but everything leading up to it was not.

    • sharculese

      Can’t agree. Scot came off sullen and petulant here. No matter how much he stammered about it being ‘playing the game’ this was someone throwing a tantrum because their toy was taken away, and it was not fun to watch.

      • Other Scott

        Reasonable minds can disagree. I found this really fun to watch.

        To be honest, I’m having a hard time seeing what is making this whole thing unpleasant. Is it just you don’t want to watch people be kind of awful?

        • Yup.

          • tocantins

            I think that people here forget (or don’t like it, which is fine, but doesn’t make it less true) that one of the biggest themes of Survivor is how being stranded on a remote island can affect the way you act towards others, usually negatively. It is a Lord of Flies style of show. I think that it is unreasonable to watch Survivor and not expect people to bully others, that is human nature, and although perhaps lately the strategy aspect took the forefront, the whole initial theme of the show was to explore this social experiment where being stranded on an island would make people revert to their raw human nature.

        • sharculese

          I don’t want to watch it at all. I watch Survivor to see people play Survivor, not to see two grown-ass men, one of who, as I mentioned bellow, already went on and on about setting a positive example for his daughters, pitch a fit because they’re not in a winning position in a fucking game.

          Yes, Survivor tests the very last fiber of your mental capacity. Yes, part of that is baked into how the game works, and it is part of the fun. But there’s a baseline level of adult behavior you don’t get to stop showing, and Kyle and Scot have repeatedly proved themselves not capable of it.

          • If I wasn’t just about to go to bed, I’d say something like when women or people of color put out the fire or dump out the rice or have a tantrum, they aren’t called amazing villains. They are apparently “crazy” and “not fit for Survivor” and are voted out.

            But fortunately, I’m going to bed, so I won’t be able to say that.

          • Other Scott

            It’s too bad you’re going to bed, or I would have to counter with Sandra.

            And J’Tia was not voted out for dumping the rice. At least not directly.

          • sharculese

            I know you’re not American, so maybe this just doesn’t register as much for you, but you don’t think at least some of the characterization of Sandra is caught up in stereotypes of the ‘fiery Latina’?

          • Other Scott

            I’m just giving an example of someone who dumped out the fish in anger, and then a couple episodes later was about to bury everything the way Scot and Jason did here, and everyone loves her. And she is both a minority and a woman.

            I’m not sure what your counter argument is here, that Sandra is given a pass for things she shouldn’t be given a pass for because of the “fiery Latina” characterization?

          • sharculese

            Oh, okay, I didn’t quite get the point you’re making, so my counter-argument isn’t all the way on point.

            I will say that one huge difference is that Sandra didn’t spend most of the game gloating about how she was in power and then react poorly when she had a setback, which is the thing I’m really turned off about here. Sandra is surly when she’s in the minority, but she’s also surly when she’s in the majority.

            That’s far far different from acting like a king when you’re in power and then just wanting to make everyone miserable when you’re not, and way more fun to watch.

          • andythesaint

            You don’t think Sandra acts like a frontrunner? Did she not give confessionals about Russell being a “stupid ass” for his brazen idol hunting who was dead to the tribe (of which she was a member of the majority)? You don’t think she was riding high with Rupert pre-merge? Sandra shit talks EVERYBODY whether she’s on top or on the bottom.

          • sharculese

            “Sandra shit talks EVERYBODY whether she’s on top or on the bottom.”

            Yeah, that was my basic point. You don’t see the manic jag in behavior depending on whether Sandra is on the top or the bottom. She’s just Sandra. I find it a lot more fun than this kind of behavior.

          • andythesaint

            To be clear, I find everything Sandra does more fun than this kind of behaviour. But I also recognize that it might make me a bit of a hypocrite.

            I also don’t care if it does.

          • “Sandra shit talks EVERYBODY whether she’s on top or on the bottom.”

            Are we not doing “phrasing” anymore?

          • I don’t have a good long-term Survivor memory.

            I just really don’t understand why it’s any fun to watch people act like inhuman dicks. There’s a huge difference between strategic subterfuge and dumping the water your society drinks on the fire which cooks the food your society eats. Much like there’s a huge difference between telling someone you’re not going to work in their alliance versus telling someone they literally have no soul. There is discomfiting TV that I will watch because it’s interesting, and then there is emotional snuff films.

            And I also think that it’s just…so bizarre that when two big white guys act like inhuman dicks, it’s so much easier for other people to say “HMM, MAYBE THIS INHUMAN DICKERY MAKES SENSE.” And that’s just me mulling over the actions of the people on the show rather than any other point.

            I like WATER and FOOD and NOT TO BE YELLED AT. How does someone let those people stay? Is a million dollars worth it? Really?

          • Caveats:
            1. I didn’t watch the whole episode because it made me sad.
            2. I’m a white guy so I get this benefit of the doubt (until they find out I’m gay, and then it’s all up for grabs…literally).
            3. I’m not totally sure what race Scott is because I’m a modern human and I don’t see color but also am just actually not sure

          • Other Scott

            I can’t really explain it to you. If you don’t like it you don’t like it. For me, there was a level of gleefulness to their inhuman dickishness that I couldn’t help but smile at. There’s a degree to which this is real life, but there’s a degree to which this is a game and a show as well.

            Plus it sets up this good vs evil storyline, heroes vs. villains, which is the heart of what makes a good Survivor season.

          • Unless there are only villains left, or ciphers. Collars Apart ended that way for me because I didn’t care about Mike, so I just stopped watching. History is repeating.

            But I’m glad we all like different things because otherwise the world would be boring. Unless everyone liked all the same things as me, in which case the world would be perfect.

          • Other Scott

            Oh I completely agree about the end of World’s Apart. I didn’t stop watching, but I did check out. Which is too bad because that’s one of my favourite pre-merges.

            Difference is I find Scot and Jason’s awfulness to be fun, where Will and Dan were not. Rodney wasn’t really fun either, but he had a level of complexity to him that I’ve come to appreciate.

          • Purplerockmatt

            I think Will and Dan had a personal attack level to their awfulness that Scot and Jason only displayed towards Alecia

          • Other Scott

            Pretty much. And also I think Scot and Jason have a better awareness of what kind of villainy makes the good TV Survivor is looking for.

          • sharculese

            I’d still prefer a Peter* over either of them. That kind of direct scheming is tons of fun in a villain. Kyle and Scot are just assholes who expect things because of their place in society.
            *Hey cool, we can still do phrasing.

          • Other Scott

            Hey, the Peter downfall episode was my favourite episode of the season until today. He was too oblivious to be actually a good villain though. It’s like calling Drew Christy a villain.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Heroes vs. Villains vs. Dumb-asses coming soon to your TV.

          • Other Scott

            Coming from recent seasons (no third timers):

            Heroes: Mike, Hali, Aubry, Denise, Hayden, Jon M
            Villains: Tony, Scot, Jason, Trish, Natalie, Sophie
            Dumb: Fabio, Drew, Peter, Alecia, Morgan, Christina

            Who’s on board? (I was stretching on the female villains, but it’s tough to find options.)

          • sharculese

            Sub ins: Rodney for Kyle, Wentworth for Aubry, Tai for Jon. Now I’m on board.

          • Other Scott

            I will accept Rodney for Kyle. Wentworth doesn’t qualify because she’d be a third timer, and no way in hell am I taking Jon off. You can move him to whichever of the tribes you want though, because he fits all three.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Rodney fits two of those lists.

          • Alycia Swift

            I thought that too but I don’t want to see him again although if I had to pick between Rodney, Kyle and Scot … I’d have to pick Rodney.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            Especially for Calm vs. Cool vs. Collective.

          • Alycia Swift

            Collective – The Spencer Like Robot (or Borg) team.

          • Hornacek

            I’m still pulling for Robs vs. Johns.

          • Alycia Swift

            There’d only be one woman on that season (R.C. – isn’t that Roberta?).

          • Hornacek

            Yes, R is for Roberta. Rob C has gone through the potential cast list a few times on his podcast and I think she’s the only woman he listed; Jean-Robert would be on Exile Island for the first challenge (since he could be on either tribe) and would join the tribe who went to tribal first.

          • Alycia Swift

            I’ve heard it. I am not as up on this type of season although I suppose it could be Robs v. Jons v. Kellys v. Kim(or Kimmy’s) because we’ve had a number of women with those names.

          • indescribable hat

            I thought Jean-Robert and Bobby Jon both made an appearance?

          • Hornacek

            Yes! I thought there was a second person who could be on either team but I couldn’t remember Bobby Jon.

          • Other Scott

            Nah, I’d have him straight villain. He was running the game for a little bit there, he’s smarter than he looks, in a hustler sense.

          • Alycia Swift

            After tonight, I’d add tai to Villian take off Jason and Scot because I don’t want to see them again. Perhaps Reed as a Villian. The women villains are more heroes to me but I like the female heroes you picked too.

            The other Alicia from one world is a better Villian. I add Jaclyn could be a Villian (hey if the made Candace a hero and Danielle a Villian, why not). Mama c is also Villian material.

          • Alycia Swift

            Also Jennifer instead of Morgan.

          • sharculese

            Oh, Reed would be a good add to the Villiains!

          • Other Scott

            Female villains are tough because they’ve probably been brought back already if they’re true villains, so I kind of picked mini situational villains.

            Alecia, I would accept if someone wanted to insist on it, but I’m not excited for her to come back. I just found Carolyn and Jaclyn kind of boring.

          • Alycia Swift

            I can see Trish as a situational villian for her issue with Lindsay. But I don’t remember Natalie and Sophie doing anything. I can’t say Natalie yelling at John Rocker qualified.

          • Other Scott

            Obviously Jon Misch was the hero, and that makes Natalie trying to undermine his game the villain.

            And Sophie was a villain by her association with the Coach/ Brandon Hantz alliance.

            I did say I was stretching.

          • Alycia Swift

            I never thought of Jon Misch as a hero. He seemed like a nicer idiot than Drew who was a douche. I thought of Natalie as a Heroine.

            I can see your point about Sophie though. I hope you did Yoga for that stretch though.

          • Hornacek

            John Misch = aspiring sommelier = hero

          • Kemper Boyd

            Honestly any villains team without NaYonka how ever unlikely it is they’d in vite her back is as flawed as Russel Hantz thinks the game is.

          • Kemper Boyd

            How about Dumb Dumbs vs Arseholes vs Meh

            Dumb Dumbs: Fabio, Drew, Jason Siska, Alecia, Morgan, Heidi
            Arseholes: Scot, Kyle, Dan Foley, Na’yonka, Alicia Rosa, J’Tia
            Meh: Jon Misch, Keith Tollefson, Joe Del Campo, Alexis (Cagayan), Alexis (Micronesia), Debbie (Tocantins).

          • Alycia Swift

            Meh – I can’t even remember who Debbie in Tocantins is so she definitely fits Meh.

          • sharculese

            She was Coach’s sidekick. Her main job was subbing in on shitting on Sierra when Coach had to go do mystic bullshit in the woods.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I want a strategic villain like Russell if I have to have one, not a cruel asshole like these guys or Dan and Will.

          • DAN. I knew there was someone else terrible in that season but I completely forgot him. Such irony since he was desperately trying to be so unforgettable but was outshone by someone much more evil.

          • Ms_Woozah

            I’m more of this opinion as well. Scot and Jason’s bullying of Alecia really rubbed me the wrong way and this episode was them just throwing a temper tantrum, but they haven’t reached Will and Dan levels for me yet. They’re more Rodney-level douche.

            Also the players left — Cydney, Tai, Aubry, Debbie (up til now), even Julia and OMW — are much more palatable and entertaining than what was left in WA.

          • Agreed that the would would be perfect if we all liked the exact same things as you. As long as you like the exact same things as me.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Not only did she dump the fish, but she threw Christa under the bus! She must have loved Rupert even more than the rest of America.

          • Other Scott

            I’m still not convinced that Sandra didn’t want Rupert out. She was talking about getting rid of him in the vote before and that Jon vote would have been enough to eliminate Rupert even if Lil stuck with them.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Sandra didn’t get caught. It’s very important to not get caught.

          • Kemper Boyd

            THANK YOU. This is another layer of sexism in Survivor, although Russell Hantz was called a villain no one said he was crazy. When women have any kind of emotional reaction it gets viewed negatively.

          • Violina23

            It might be editing, but with Russell, Scot/Jason, it seemed like there was a deliberateness and (twisted) infantile logic to their horrible behavior. Someone like J’Tia, we were never given a window into her thought process, and damned if we couldn’t find any logic there, so she looked certifiably crazy. Sandra never got a crazy edit, in my memory (which I admit, isn’t a great memory)

            For what it’s worth, People like Scot/Jason/Russell/Will/Colton, etc came off MUCH worse to me than J’Tia in the long run, Because the intent to actually HURT another human being beyond strategic gameplay just reeks of desperation and disgusts me.

      • Kemper Boyd

        You know how I said the problem with Scot was when he has power and is a dick about it? I was wrong the problem with Scot is he’s a dick. They reacted in a way that guarantees they can’t win and makes them look like complete morons, especially Scot, I can understand hiding the machete and axe but then getting shitty and putting out the fire in front of the whole group because the women had figured out a way around their sabotage, that is moronic.

        • Yeah, I concurred with the premise that Scot was only a dick when he was in power. But you’re right, this episode blew a giant hole in that theory.

      • Hornacek

        How the hell did Scot last in the NBA? Despite my username, I have no NBA knowledge but I’ve been told that Scot was there for 11 years. How did someone with this terrible amount of sportsmanship survive? Or am I just naive in how I feel players act in the NBA?

        • You’re just naive about how players act. Most of them spent their entire lives as the best player on really successful teams. Then they get to the NBA and they might end up on a team that just sucks, and some of them get frustrated and act like jerks.

          But they’re also usually in the 19-22 year old range when they come into the league, so they aren’t paragons of maturity.

          • Hornacek

            But in the NBA don’t they have to shake hands with the other team after the game, or anything like that to show good sportsmanship? I can’t imagine that if a team loses they go up to the other team’s water table and knocks it over.

          • There’s no requirement to shake hands after a game. That’s usually done in youth sports, but it often stops by high school.

            I wasn’t meaning to imply that all NBA (or NFL, or NHL, or MLB) players are petulant assholes. I’m just saying it’s not exactly unheard of.

          • Hornacek

            They shake hands at the end of NHL playoff games, don’t they?* Do they do that for playoff games in the NBA, NFL and MLB? If not then my entire worldview of those sports has been shattered.

            * Wasn’t there a story about a hockey player refusing to shake hands with a specific player on the other team … (Googles it) … it was Martin Brodeur (goalie) refusing to shake hands with Sean Avery in 2008. In a previous game Avery had blocked Brodeur’s view of the play by standing in front of him (facing him) and waving his arms (which created a new rule preventing this). Also, I think Avery had called Brodeur “fatso” in an interview. Sean Avery would probably love Jason and Scot.

          • You’re going to believe this, but I’m not very well-versed in hockey.

          • Hornacek

            As a Canadian, I am legally obligated to be well-informed about hockey, despite my lack of interest in anything sports-related.

          • andythesaint

            In hockey they shake hands at the end of playoff series, not games.

            In the NBA, players tend to informally give each other dap at the end of the game. If they feel like it.

          • Hornacek

            Oh right, it’s at the end of the series that they shake hands, once they know they won’t be playing each other until next season.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            They do not shake hands after MLB games, playoff or otherwise. Sometimes they high five their own teammates.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I agree with sharculese that it was really just a stupid tantrum. But I thought the whole circumstance led to some interesting scheming, a great TC, and a pretty decent episode. I also thought it lowered their goat potential, because they might be making things too unpleasant for people to even try wrangling them. And I’m hoping for a really good comeuppance episode.

      • Other Scott

        I think it was 40% tantrum, 40% playing to the cameras, and 20% making a game move. I don’t think they really think it was a good game move, but if you squint you can sort of justify it, and obviously they did enough to convince Tai, because it was 100% a game move for him.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I think it’s a lock one of the them is at the end and only gets the vote of the other and maybe Nick.

      • Something Quirky

        I can’t see Nick voting for one of them over someone with good gameplay. He’s enough of a fan to not be that petty.

        • Kemper Boyd

          What about Michele v Kyle?

          • Something Quirky

            I figure that while he’d be annoyed with Michele, he’d think that she played brilliantly to be able to trick him =P

          • Kemper Boyd

            Probably, he’s see her turning on him as a big strategic move, because he’s such a narcissist.

          • I could also see her spinning it to him at FTC as a big move ala Natalie with Alec.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Todd and Jean-Robert.

          • Chris and Julie.

          • Alycia Swift

            Especially if she’s smart enough to call him a big threat and reminds him that she warned him.

        • tocantins

          I don’t know about that. Nick looked almost like their cheerleader during the TC.

          • Side Character

            He might just be excited that the people that voted him out aren’t having things go their way. An example of this would be Erik in Samoa, when Russell played the idol and got Kelly out, he was super excited about that, and he didn’t vote for Russell in the end.

      • Hornacek

        The worst possible outcome is a final two with Jason and Scot.

        In that case, the jury (minus Nick, and possibly Tai) instead of voting go and hangs themselves.

        • Alycia Swift

          And so does the audience. And it absolutely explains why Jeff is down on the season and it was not well advertised.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I think it’s only one of them. I just have a feeling it’s Kyle.

          • Hornacek

            Two seasons in a row with a unanimous winner!

          • Kemper Boyd

            Silly Hornacek, Scot will vote for him.

          • Violina23

            Yep, I think so too.

  • MrBurkesButtons

    Am I the only one who thinks the Childish Gambit could work in this limited instance?

    Between Scot and Tai, the “guys” have an advantage in most challenges. (I’d take Cydney over Jason, but that bridge is burnt.) If the “girls” take the bait and make each reward challenge guys vs. girls, then the Dark Side will keep eating while others starve. The “girls” have no idols unless Neal’s comes back into play. Bitter jury is powerless if all three Dark Side make Final Tribal. The Idol/Super Idol threat makes it tough to vote any of them out. Meanwhile, Aubry panics and eats her own.

    I’m not rooting for this scenario, but it does play to Jason and Scot’s strengths while potentially bulldozing over their greatest weakness (lack of positive relationships).

    • Other Scott

      I honestly think it’s strategy, or at the very least bitterness rationalized by perceived stragic merit and entertainment value.

    • Hornacek

      I don’t think Neal’s idol is coming back into play. We’ve seen nothing about anyone looking for it, but if it exists and no one has found it yet, that doesn’t make for exciting TV. But we probably would have seen a clue at one of the two rewards (hidden in an ice cream cone, or IN A FORTUNE COOKIE! WHY DIDN’T THIS HAPPEN???

      But unless the women (plus Joe) can convince Tai to come back to the light side, they have to bite the bullet and vote for one of Jason/Scot/Tai, let them use the superidol and send one of them home, and then take them out after that (when their idols are gone). Unfortunately, the men would probably target Cydney (who is in my Pick-4), but if they don’t do this, then they will have to vote out their own until Jason/Scot/Tai are in the majority.

    • tocantins

      Would Julia have teemed up with them if they hadn’t sacrificed their popularity (and honor, and maturity) like that? I am tempted to think not. And if that is right, then pouring the water on the fire saved their lives this episode.

  • Alycia Swift

    I’m still watching as I got home from work at 11 pm est. But I can now see why Jeff is down on this season. I just had to come to the site cause this episode is upsetting me. Is this the bullying behavior that Jeff was talking about?

    • Other Scott

      Okay, I’m going to get really annoying here slowly. But how was this episode in any way, shape or form bullying. At all.

      • Roswulf

        “We are big and strong and things are not going our way like they are supposed to, so we are going to destroy your stuff to demonstrate that we still have power, you weak little girls.”

        • Other Scott

          I think that’s stretching it a lot. That’s the kind of stuff a little brother pulls to annoy his big brother, which is kind of reverse bullying.

          • sharculese

            Dude, Scot picked up the 5 gallon canteen and dumped it on the fire in front of them, knowing there was nothing they could do to stop him.

          • So I think if Scot/Jason are “the little brother” in this scenario, I’m not sure there’s anything else I can say here to make a point. Seacrest out, or something.

          • andythesaint

            But did Scot have any power at that point? Because most bullying is about flaunting an imbalance of power. Moreover, did anyone on the non-Scot/Jason/Tai side react as though they were being bullied? Or was it more an annoyance/insult?

            Not all assholes are bullies. Mostly because a neutered bully can no longer be a bully.

          • sharculese

            I think they’re acting out behaviors that have worked for them in real life, and just aren’t getting why those behaviors don’t work for them on Survivor. That the majority took it in stride didn’t change the fact that the basic game plan was to use physical dominance to make things unpleasant for other people. It’s failed bullying, but the root intent was still to bully.

          • andythesaint

            But physical dominance had nothing to do with their maneuvers. Anyone can dump shit into the fire on Survivor without fear of reprisal. I know this because I saw a 90 pound woman do it once.

          • sharculese

            Are we talking about Jane or J’Tia? Because I don’t feel like having to respond to both examples if you have one in mind.

          • andythesaint

            I was thinking J’Tia. Mostly because I block out most Nicaragua things.

          • sharculese

            So if we’re talking about J’Tia, what I would say is that J’Tia waited until everyone was off scheming against her to dump out the rice and only by chance (or more likely because someone clued everyone to run back to camp and see was she was doing) was discovered.

            Scot stood up in the middle of a crowded group, grabbed the canteen, and dumped it on the fire with an air of ‘what are you going to do about it?”

            The dynamics are completely different.

          • DrVanNostrand

            No one can do anything about anyone doing that shit in Survivor.

          • andythesaint

            I agree that who Scot is gave him the confidence to do what he did so brazenly (as compared to the 90 pound man who ALSO dumped water into the fire this episode). But I disagree that it was an example of bullying. Maybe it’s his history of being a bully that gives him the impulse to do it, but in that instance, it was the pathetic actions of a loser. And that’s how everyone took it.

          • sharculese

            “but in that instance, it was the pathetic actions of a loser”

            I feel like this is where we’re butting heads. I don’t disagree with this statement, but I also don’t think it’s inconsistent with bullying; if anyting, I think it’s prototypical bullying.

            If I understand you correctly, your argument is that people bully from a position of power, yes? I don’t agree. I think people bully from a position of insecurity about their power. Truly powerful people don’t need to bully, they just wield power. It’s the people below them who need to bully, to reinforce that they have status over others. And the worst offenders are the ones who feel their position in the hierarchy slipping; they’re the ones who feel the most need to prove their status.

            So that brings us to Kyle and Scot. Their position in he hierarchy of the tribe has taken a huge nose dive, and they can’t respond in any meaningful way, so they work with the one thing they have, their physical superiority, to exert some measure of dominance. Like I said below, I think it’s ineffective bullying, because they have so little power, but I do think that the intent is to bully and that intent is relevant here.

          • Max_Jets

            I really don’t see how their physical superiority plays into this in any way, when anyone was capable of doing what they were doing. Even you consider them being large as a reason the other contestants might fear them, they are still surrounded by dozens of crew members that aren’t going to let anything happen.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            That aren’t going to let anything happen to an extent. They will certainly let some stuff slide.

          • sharculese

            Pretty much everyone who plays Survivor says the same thing “you stop thinking about the cameras really quickly.”

            In a tense stand-off, I don’t think anyone is thinking, “if this gets physical, production will step in.”

          • sharculese

            But also, the same actions have different connotations when carried out by a 90 pounder and a straight up giant.

            How big are you? Have you had the experience of being 5’5″ and 120 lbs. as an adult? Because trust me, bigger dudes feel like they get to tell you what to do because they’re bigger than you, and it’s a thing you have to actively fight back against.

          • andythesaint

            As my style of argument and sense of humour probably makes obvious, I am a very short man. 5’7.

          • sharculese

            Tall men can still be funny!

          • andythesaint

            I mean, I guess.

          • Hornacek

            Randy Newman must hate you.

          • Alycia Swift

            Is there a set parameter about how someone is supposed to react to make it bullying? Just because the women did not react how the guys wanted them to react does it mean they did not consider it bullying or that it was not bullying.

          • andythesaint

            Their reaction was “whatever losers, this means nothing”. Because it didn’t. Because those assholes had no power. Bullying is about the flaunting of power. At that exact moment of time, Scot had none. In fact, he had less than he even imagined since their opening gambit of hiding axes and machetes proved so fruitless.

          • DrVanNostrand

            The futility of the sabotage was the best part.

          • Hornacek

            When Scot was sitting there expecting the women (plus Joe) to fall into chaos, and they showed him that they could survive without the machete and axe, it reminded me of The Simpsons episode where the town split into two (because of area codes) and Old Springfield dams up the river to stick it to New Springfield. But New Springfield discovers gold in the dry riverbed (“We’re slightly richer!”) so they pay to transplant the Evian waterplant to New Springfield (“Now we’re all taking golden showers! What?”).*

            The women (plus Joe) were not suffering because of Jason and Scot’s antics, and that just crushed Scot. “This isn’t what’s supposed to happen!” How did he ever survive a season in the NBA?

            *Sadly, I didn’t have to look any of this up … I’ve wasted my life.

          • sharculese

            “Bullying is about the flaunting of power.”

            And power comes in a lot of forms. Which is part of why bullying is such a complicated issue. It’s completely possible to have no power in one way but tons of power in another.

          • Max_Jets

            J’Tia: Survivor’s biggest bully

        • DrVanNostrand

          I’m with Other Scott 100%. People of all genders and sizes have thrown dumb tantrums on the show, for the simple reason that their game isn’t going well. Other contestants aren’t allowed to tackle you and hold you down to stop it. Literally anyone at camp can pour water on the fire like that. It’s immature, stupid, bad strategy, and bad sportsmanship. It is absolutely not bullying. The ones with the real power in Survivor are the voting majority.

        • Violina23

          I definitely put this more in the category of asshole/dickish behavior than bullying. Part of it might be because it was directed at the whole group rather than one person (e.g. Alecia). But the goal seemed to be to make an obnoxious display of their own [non-existent] power, rather than to emotionally degrade another individual.

    • Roswulf

      I’m pretty sure it isn’t- I don’t think this is behavior Probst would interpret as bullying. Plus, we have at least one more episode of Scot and Jason feeling smug and powerful ahead of us. I’m sure there’s lots of deeply despicable bullying in our shared future!

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Or it was just the Alecia stuff and it’s already over. *fingers crossed*

    • Ms_Woozah

      It was more of a petulant tantrum (or as Carrie said in her AV Club review, “petty nonsense”) than bullying. If they had showed the other tribe members more upset than they were (they seemed annoyed at best), than maybe I would have reacted differently. They certainly don’t come off good here, but I think it’s a stretch to label it “bullying.”

      • Something Quirky

        Especially relative to how they behaved earlier in the season.

        • Hornacek

          It’s sad that we can say two players’ actions now aren’t bullying because we can compare it to their actions earlier in the season and say “Now THAT was bullying.”

          • Something Quirky

            I should probably have been more clear that I meant it in the context of the question of if this was the bullying being referred to.

      • Kemper Boyd

        The thing that gets me is Scot’s tantrum when the women figured it out and were working around their sabotage that’s a level of petulance that can almost guarantee one of them a seat at the end.

  • Diego Armando

    I have posted a review of this insane episode at https://robertsreviewsandmusings.wordpress.com/. As always, leave a comment or let me know how I can improve. Thank you.

  • Saturday Night Palsy

    I’m wondering if Tai will let the chicken free at some time only to have it not run away but stay near him because it loves him and that will be the story of how Tai’s chicken is eaten.

    • Hornacek

      When it was on his shoulder was it still tethered?

  • Alycia Swift

    Don’t these guys see is their behavior or similar behavior is the reason Russel lost twice? And theirs is almost worse since they did it as revenge even though they call it strategy. If there’s.a final 3, that third person wins if both Scott and Jason are there.

    • sharculese

      In his bio, Kyle called Russell the only person ever to play Survivor correctly. There’s a distinct possibility that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

      • Alycia Swift

        I know. I remember. That’s why I brought it up.

      • Hornacek

        Now Jason reminds me of the Sea Captain on The Simpsons.

        Assistant: I’m telling you, the light should be pointing OUT to see.
        Sea Captain: Shut up! I know what I’m doing.
        (ship hits rocks, sinks)
        Sea Captain: Arr! I hate the sea, and everything in it!

    • this bear is tops blooby

      i don’t think they know, or if they do, care. Aubry hit the nail on the head next week, that they’re despicable people.

      • sharculese

        I will say this week after week – being shocked that a professional bounty hunter is a shitty human being is like being shocked that the sun rises in the east.

        • this bear is tops blooby

          I don’t want to generalize, but the examples we have certainly (Dog the Bounty Hunter) don’t make them look great.

          • sharculese

            I do want to generalize.

        • DrVanNostrand

          It’s a completely legitimate profession…. that is largely made up of assholes.

        • Hornacek

          And Dog seemed like such a lovely man, who liked every type of person in the world.

    • Hornacek

      Russell’s behavior almost seems benevolent in comparison. At least he was doing it strategically. Jason and Scot are just reacting like 5-year-olds who just lost a game at recess.

      • sharculese

        The one time we saw Russell not have control over the course of the game he literally cried about it.

        • Hornacek

          Russell did not have control more than once in HvV, and he never had control in RI. He only cried when he lost at RI, and he wouldn’t be the first person to cry when leaving the game (cough John Carroll cough).

  • this bear is tops blooby

    Yep, Scot and Jason are still the worst. They have no strategy except to throw tantrums.

    Jason’s got an odd high pitched voice.

    Julia making a play, but is a little too blatant. Not sure how that’ll work out for her in the long run, even if it was the right move.

    I thought maybe one of the girls should just go on their team to sabotage them. That would’ve been so great. Just seeing a team member say, “No, I’m not moving.” See how that feels asshats?

    Debbie’s lost her damn mind, and pays for it as a result.

    Tai gets a little evil.

    I figured it was either Deb or Cydney, with the odds on Deb. Loose lips sink ships.

    Voting Deb is a big risk, and now they have to convince Tai to vote with them net week.

    Ugh, another week of those wankers, Jason and Scot.

    • Hornacek

      Julia was a bit too eager to volunteer for that reward challenge. The women should have asked themselves “Does anyone *want* to join them?” and then done rock/paper/scissors, loser joins the guys.

      I was hoping when Jeff mentioned a schoolyard pick that Jason and Scot would be the last two, with one tribe picking one of them, the other one not participating, and then when Jeff said “Go!” the women on the team with Scot or Jason would just sit down and refuse to compete.

      Debbie, why did you have to tell Aubry that you refused to vote out Julia? She’s was spending too much time with Joe.

  • Roswulf

    So…I think the best gameplay of this episode came from Joe.

    And I think that perfectly summarizes how nuts this episode was.

    • Other Scott

      The best gameplay of this episode came from Woo.

      I just digitally insert him into all episodes now.

      • Hornacek

        Like Brett, the guy that was CGI’d into Samoa?

  • Ms_Woozah

    Saw this at the live Know-It-Alls tonight. Response to Michele was tepid at best. Cydney, Tai, and Aubry were the definite favorites in the audience. Even Jeremy was like, “Michele Who?” (Stole sharculese’s joke.)

    Anyway, this vote was either the best idea or worst idea – we’ll have to see how it plays out. I’m worried this could turn things around for Scot and Jason but hope I’m wrong.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I think there is now a backlash against Michele based entirely on how over hyped she is. I feel like tepid is exactly the reception her game deserves. She is very much going with the flow, like Sandra but way way less fun.

    • I’m so flipping jealous of you right now.

    • Cydney is awesome. I was really worried that she would go home last night and we wouldn’t get any more of her.

      I saw that you got a pic with a certain handsome former Survivor winner at Know-It-Alls, though. Congrats!

      • Alycia Swift

        I wonder why Cydney was not on the list from this season of possible returnees. She is awesome.

        And its funny, after all the talk about Brawn v. Brains, a Brawn and Brain are joined.

        • I’m holding out hope that it’s because Cydney wins this season and they already have enough winners under consideration.

          • Alycia Swift

            Or holding her for a second chances season.

          • That’s the only other acceptable answer. Because Cydney is fantastic.

          • She has to be on the list of potential returnees if for no other reason for the fact that she fits a certain niche of younger WOC. I wonder if she cannot return because of medical school. That was the reported reason why Candice couldn’t come back for Micronesia.

          • andythesaint

            Or maybe she said no? Like, I think they’re allowed to do that, right?

          • No.

          • Alycia Swift

            She’s not. Its against the law.

      • Ms_Woozah

        Thanks! His appearance was definitely the highlight for me.

    • Alycia Swift

      I am curious, did you come far to attend or do you live in the area? I live close enough but no one I know is into Survivor so I’d love to meet up with other fans for the next one. I missed the announcement to get tickets this time because I was not listening for a few days. I won’t make that mistake again.

      • Ms_Woozah

        Didn’t travel far at all. In fact, I work in the same building the event was at so I probably traveled the least amount of anyone there. You should totally join next time! I go with a fun group of people who have diverse opinions about all things Survivor.

        Do you have Twitter? If you want to DM me I can give you info about NY meetups, etc. (@chelsaat) We’ll probably have a finale party at a bar in Manhattan.

        • Alycia Swift

          I will do that.

          • Alycia Swift

            I just realized that you asked if I was on Twitter. I am not.

          • Ms_Woozah

            @alycia_swift:disqus and @Violina23:disqus – if you’re comfortable with Facebook, there’s a group called NYC Survivor Fans. People in there post about watch parties, events like this, etc. But I’ll also try and give you guys a heads-up here too.

          • Alycia Swift

            Will do so when I have a few minutes.

        • Violina23

          I live in Northern NJ, I’d love to join in if I can pull it off πŸ™‚

    • Violina23

      Hey @Ms_Woozah:disqus ! Let me know next time it’s in NYC. I would be interested in joining you. By the time I realized which week it was, it was already sold out πŸ™‚

      • Kemper Boyd

        I’ve turned into such a nerd I’m considering a trip to the States for one. I wonder if I emailed Rob he’d give me heads up on the dates of them so I could book flights in advance?

        • Violina23

          If so, give me a heads up. Lining up a babysitter almost requires as much notice πŸ˜‰

      • Alycia Swift

        That’s what happened to me.

  • itsafuckingSTICK

    Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Jeff Probst about hitting my gong?

    • Hornacek

      Get it on
      Bang a gong

      • sharculese

        Hornacek: Doesn’t know sports, does know the fundamentals of glam rock.

        • Side Character

          He has his priorities properly sorted.

          • sharculese

            I’M NOT ARGUING!

          • Side Character

            NOR AM I!

        • Hornacek

          Breakdown of my knowledge
          – 80s music: 50% 49%
          – Simpsons quotes: 50%

          – sports: 0% 1% (hockey theory taught in all Canadian schools)

          (The Power Station was glam rock?)

          • sharculese

            They’re not, but that’s a cover.

          • Side Character

            God I love that song.

          • Hornacek

            My faith in everything I thought I knew about the 80s has just been shattered.

          • sharculese

            If it helps, I think the Power Station version does a perfectly fine job of moving that song into an 80s context. It’s just not as good, and part of that is nobody in Power Station is halfway to being on Marc Bolan’s level.

          • Hornacek

            But … Robert Palmer! The best Taylor from Duran Duran! One of the other Taylors from Duran Duran!

          • sharculese

            Yeah, none of those people are Marc Bolan.

          • Hornacek

            I don’t know who that is and I don’t care to find out.

        • itsafuckingSTICK

          I always know that I’ve missed out on something essential when Google’s predictive feature anticipates something I thought would be an obscure search. I started typing in “get it on bang a gong” after seeing your comment and had no idea what the result would be, but Google knew exactly what I was searching for before I even typed ‘bang’. Now I feel left out of all the fun…

  • Side Character

    Alright, Julia didn’t go this week! Even though she likely would have if she hadn’t won immunity (speaking of which, woo-hoo!). I really like Julia (can you tell?), but her gameplay is becoming way too blatant–she can’t be too long for this game, though I think I kinda want to see her win. If they had done some rock paper scissors or something to determine who goes with the guys at reward, I think there would be less hard feelings. But everyone knows she’s playing both sides, and she doesn’t know that the women (plus Joe) were gunning for her before she won immunity. And she got way too much power to control the vote (thanks, Aubry). I get the feeling that others are going to do something about that.
    That being said, if I was going to give an MVP this week, it would probably be Julia. Despite going with the guys willingly (which you should never do in front of everyone), she found herself in a position of power between who would go home, with every alliance/sub-alliance relying on her to vote their way.

    • Scarlett3639

      I think Julia is making decent moves but her execution is terrible. As you said, way too blatant.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      The other thing about going with the guys so willingly in the reward challenge is that it was so obvious that the team with those three guys on it was going to win, that even setting aside the fact that it looked like she wanted to align with them, jumping over there made her look like she was so greedy for the reward that she was willing to sell out her women’s alliance teammates. Either way it’s bad news.

      • Hornacek

        I don’t think it was obvious the men (plus Julia) were going to win. The first half of the challenge involved agility and favored smaller people with ducking under (and jumping over) the ropes. The men were ahead after that part, but just barely.

        As for throwing sandbags at the objects, once again in a throwing challenge a former NBA player is almost beaten by a civilian (in this case it was Debbie, who as it turns out, played a seaon in the WNBA minor leagues). And actually, it was Jason who won that part of the challenge for his team.

        • andythesaint

          How… much… THROWING do you think happens in basketball?

          • Hornacek

            Isn’t that how they score points? Don’t most games end with scores near/over 100? That’s gotta be a lot of throwing.

          • Side Character

            They do throw the ball–they have things called free throws in basketball. But one armed throwing, like in the challenge? Not as much–basketball has more of the two-handed variety.

          • Hornacek

            Two-hand throwing, one-hand throwing – you’re still throwing an object at another object. How different can they be?

            (remember, I know nothing about basketball, or sports in general)

          • sharculese

            Kyle and Debbie were throwing the beanbags like baseballs, a sharp overhand toss that mixes accuracy and force, more than they were throwing them like basketballs, which is pure accuracy.

            It’s the same technique displayed by master of throwing things at other things Reynold Topher.

          • Side Character

            Why is Reynold not in the NBA?

          • Other Scott

            Just those distance inbounds plays. Did Scot Pollard do a lot of those?

          • andythesaint

            No one does.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I felt a little angry at Joe for not picking the guys to support just to be there for any strategy talk. If he’d done that it’s one less moment for them to be with Julia alone.

        • Roswulf

          But it risks Joe himself becoming Cydney/Aubrey’s paranoia target- the optics of the four men going off together are not great for Joe.

          • andythesaint

            Also, Joe at strategy talk.

            bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

          • Side Character

            Seriously, what the fuck is his game plan? Forget Scot and Jason, Joe could be the goat to take to the end.

          • andythesaint

            Keep the fire going.

          • Hornacek

            Anyone: Joe, I think we need to change our plan and vote for someone else besides who we said we would vote for …
            Joe: No!

          • Kemper Boyd

            I doubt it, I think they view Joe as a lump. He’s a no one in strategy and he is too good a guy to turn on his group to go with troublemakers.

        • itsafuckingSTICK

          As Joe was volunteering to sit out, I was thinking to myself that he was playing the smartest game: no need to compete, but a decent chance at sizing up the two teams and betting on whichever looked the more likely to win. Unfortunately, it seems like Joe didn’t even try to pick a winning team–he just stuck with his ‘alliance’. Perhaps it was the right call for the social gameplay, but I sure as hell would have chosen the men’s team in his place. He always could have rationalized it to his alliance as wanting to monkey-wrench any strategy talk.

      • Roswulf

        I feel like the right play if you are stuck on the team with the men is to throw the challenge (and this is an EASY challenge to throw). “Jeff, these men have been actively trying to make everyone’s life miserable at camp by hiding tools and extinguishing fires. I’ll be damned before I see them win a reward. Ladies, take all the time you need.”

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I’m sure that’s what they were planning before Julia made her Big Moveβ„’.

  • Something Quirky

    I wonder what would have happened if Michele and Joe didn’t relight the fire? We’ve seen no evidence that Sunburn and Scot can make a fire. So maybe they should have been like, okay fine, no fire here, and then gone and made fire somewhere else without them.

    • Hornacek

      At this point I’m hoping that the women (plus Joe) aren’t feeding Jason and Scot at all.

      • Something Quirky

        It seems like they’re mainly eating melons and coconuts, and Tai gets the melons.

        • Hornacek

          Hey, Cydney can get melons!

          • itsafuckingSTICK

            “Pfffft, I can climb a damn tree!”

    • sharculese

      Where would they go? They can’t just walk down the beach, and if someone tried to start a fire in the jungle I’m pretty sure production would be like, “oh, fuck no.”

      • Hornacek

        Didn’t we have a player (can’t remember their name or the season) who caught a fish and went into the jungle and cooked and ate it so they wouldn’t have to share it with the others?

        • Something Quirky

          That sounds very familiar. I think that happened a few years ago?

          • Alycia Swift

            Jane. Nicaragua.

          • Hornacek

            That’s it. The season that shall not be named.

      • Something Quirky

        Remember when they used to burn down shelters?

        • sharculese

          Yeah, but you know there were ten crew members with fire extinguishers sitting there just waiting for the shot to be over.

          • Something Quirky

            Oh yeah. And hopefully they’d cleared anything useful that could have been donated to locals.

        • Hornacek

          I have been listening to old RHAP episodes. During Caramoan, after Brandon Hantz threatened to burn the shelter and pee in the rice, but before he left the game, there were a few episodes where Rob wondered if this might be a good strategy for future players – threaten to destroy the camp/ruin the food and the others would think twice about voting you out.

          Of course after Brandon went crazy and got voted out, Rob realized no one won in that situation.

  • Mike Hirsch

    I was saddened that Jason and Scot’s game of roshambo involved neither a literal punch to the nuts nor a cameo from Shambo.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I only heard Shambo and I was very disappointed to discover Roshambo is some silly American name of Chin Chan Channa.

      • I only know of it as Rock, Paper Scissors.

        • South Park was the first time I’d ever heard it referred to as Roshambo/Rochambeau. But as Mike said, this version unfortunately did not involve any swift kicks to the nuts.

          • I think I remember Seinfeld saying it, but I don’t feel confident in that.

          • I watched Seinfeld, but I wasn’t a big enough fan to have seen every episode. So that’s possible. I imagine their version didn’t involve testicle-kicking, though.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Same here, South Park was my first exposure to it as well. When they said that, I actually said, “they’re going to hit each other in the nuts for it? That seems a bit extreme.”

        • Alycia Swift

          Lizard Spock.

          • torchoflaw

            The term was also featured in a piece of treemail in Redemption Island. And I remember this because Phillip Sheppard couldn’t pronounce it correctly. On the other hand, why I still remember things from such a bad season is beyond me…

        • Purple Rock Emma

          We typically called it Rock, Paper, Scissors but I’ve heard both.

      • itsafuckingSTICK

        I’ve called it both Rochambeau and Rock, Paper, Scissors ever since I was a little kid but I’ve never heard it called Chin Chan Channa before. I wonder what other variants are floating around out there.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Chin Chan Channa is the North London name for it.

  • Kemper Boyd

    Can CBS please reinstate the social media ban? I’m sick of reading them all explain themselves and give little spoilers that ruin the week’s speculation.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    Disclaimer: I’m on gin & tonic #3.5.

    Shit. The reason CBS/Probst are down on this (so far spectacular) season is that Jason and Scot are the F2. And it’s the future jury members’ own damn fault because they all want to take one of those two to the end.

    • Hornacek

      SPOILER: The entire jury (minus Nick) walks off the show at the final tribal (Tai has returned to the light side by then) refusing to vote for either of them, leaving Nick with a Sophie’s Choice decision of which douchebag to give the million to.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      I think you’re onto something here. This is one of those cases where everyone is scrambling to keep goats around, without realizing that those goats are so toxic that they’re going to ruin everyone else’s game and make the show suck. As a viewer I would much rather see a pleasant final 3 (although I’m fully aware that as a player that’s not what you want).

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        It’s a collective action problem. They would all be better off banding together to get rid of them, but individually they all want to be sitting next to one of them at FTC. It’s a perfect storm of two of the goatiest goats ever in a ride or die alliance with each other and also being capable of beating most of the other six in the final immunity challenge. In fact if it’s something like “find necklaces in a giant maze” I could see them cooperating to make sure one of them wins.

    • Sylvisual

      You people are way too down on this season. The Three Amigos didn’t win Caramoan. Will and Dan didn’t win Worlds Apart. And there’s no way these two are going to win this season, no matter how many teddy bears and sad family anecdotes they insert. They might go far, but not win. There is a strong current of underdogs/girl power in the season that should give people hope. Vanuatu this is not.

      • Hornacek

        The Three Amigos were nowhere near this objectionable. They were saints compared to Jason and Scot; I don’t see either of them wanting to open a dog bar with their Survivor winnings.

        • sharculese

          Pretty much all of the objectionable aspect of the Three Amigo is leftover stink from the Cool Kids Alliance back on the fans tribe. By the time they hit the merge Reynold and Eddie are pretty tame.

          • Hornacek

            The Cool Kids Alliance was almost comical in that they thought that 4 people could control a tribe of 10.

            Yes, I know from exit interviews that the CKA thought they had Michael and Matt so they did think they had a majority, but as it was portrayed on the show it was just hilarious how their poor math skills failed them.

            And when you look at that original fans tribe and realize Shamar was not in the CKA, maybe they become the heroes of that story?

          • Alycia Swift

            I don’t want to see either again but you are right.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        The conventional wisdom is that the Russell Hantz game will get you to FTC, which you will then lose. Great, but that doesn’t account for an FTC of two Russell Hantzes.

    • sharculese

      “Disclaimer: I’m on gin & tonic #3.5”

      Wait, sometimes some of you do this sober?

      • Hornacek

        That would explain my nonsensical ramblings.

      • Purple Rock Emma

        Some of us do everything sober.

      • Alycia Swift

        Yes. Always.

    • Kemper Boyd

      I hope you aren’t right. To go back to OWM though, I could 100% see Michele floating to the end vs Scot/Kyle and winning be a good enough reason for Jeff and CBS to be down on this season.

      • Alycia Swift

        That’s what I think is happening.

      • DrVanNostrand

        I would have to agree with Probst if that happened. There was definitely a lot of good TV so far, but an end game that bad would downgrade the whole season.

        • Kemper Boyd

          It can yes, like a fantastic end game can elevate a season like SJDS from bad to mediocre. Although Kyle v Scot would be even worse.

          • Other Scott

            I don’t know, I think we’re due for a good “Empire Strikes Back” type Survivor season.

            (No, I’m not biased at all because I have Jason, Tai and Scot as my current pick 4 team)

          • Hornacek

            Someone’s getting a hand chopped off?

          • Other Scott

            Very possible.

      • Max_Jets

        Still a more satisfying finish than Gabon

      • Violina23

        Yep, I agree. With this Final 3, Michele wins, Probst throws something. Fade to black.

        • Kemper Boyd

          No Final 3, the numbers don’t look right. We are right on the schedule from Cagayan with a Final 2 and we are looking at another medivac. I think Michele has an even better chance at a Final 2 than 3 because if the 3 isn’t her, Scot and Kyle but her, Kyle and anyone else, anyone else will get votes.

    • andythesaint

      Sorry, my edit decoder ring tells me that Jeff and production only hate it when women win. Which is why Vanuatu and Fiji are two of their most celebrated seasons of all-time.

      • Other Scott

        And they sure hate Pearl Islands, Micronesia, and Heroes vs Villains.

        • andythesaint

          I should’ve added Nicaragua and Gabon to my list.

  • Sylvisual

    Just realized the water felon got voted off for other people’s liquid shenanigans. Womp womp.

    • Scot and Tai were probably guilty of more of a water misdemeanor.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    Maybe I was just in a bad mood last night, but I got no pleasure at all out of Scot and Jason’s TC shenanigans because I hate them so much.

  • Hornacek

    From Jeff Probst on EW.com about next week’s episode: “I think the audience will be screaming at their TVs by the time it’s over!”

    Oh God, it gets worse.

    • Ms_Woozah

      Eh, that could mean a million things. Probably just a crazy tribal.

  • Other Scott

    Okay, enough about Tai and Scot. I’m going to halfheartedly defend Aubry’s decision, or at least examine it. Here were her options:

    1. Split the vote and rely on Julia. I think this is a bad option, because if your read on Julia is right and she’s with the Brawn, they get 4 votes, they know they’re safe, and no idols get flushed.

    2. Throw all 5 votes on one person, and tell Julia a different person. You might get idol’d out, and especially super idol’d out, but it flushes idols and keeps your majority if you aren’t the target of the split. Super risky, helps your game long term. Keep in mind it was probably 50/50 on Aubry being the target of the Brawn votes, so that’s not great.

    3. Sideswipe Debbie with 3 votes. Problem is the same as the first option, but worse because you could have 4 votes going at your alliance, plus you alienate Debbie moving forward. They definitely needed that 4th vote.

    4. Try to get Julia on board with the Debbie plan. THIS CAN STILL BACKFIRE. If Julia decides she wants the same person Scot, Jason and Tai want out, then you have the same consequences as item 3 which is an unmitigated disaster. The advantage this plan has is that Debbie is a better person to vote out from Julia’s perspective, so you’re more likely to get her on board with that. And if your read on her is wrong (which it wasn’t), Scot and Jason think votes are coming their way and idols get flushed. And things can always change in three days that you have a better situation going to next tribal even if you have less raw numbers.

    In summary, the move was to vote Julia, and they couldn’t do that. That left Aubry with an array of really bad options that could all backfire. The most aggressive of those is the number 2 “come at me, bro” option, as that puts you in the best shape after the vote if you survive, but it also has a very high chance of you going out right away. Option 4 is maybe second best, because if you think Julia is thinking of flipping that’s the best option for her, even though it doesn’t put you in a great long term position. So I’m going to say this was a good move for Aubry, not because it was great for her game but because there was no other good option.

    • Alycia Swift

      Agreed.

    • Max_Jets

      Yeah, I think if you don’t take a results based approach, their move seems like the smartest option. In hindsight, #2 might have been the best option for Aubry, but even then she is stuck with allies that she doesn’t want to work with instead of Cydney. I also wonder if the alliance would fall apart without Cydney, since in their conversation Cydney said that SHE still had Michele.

      This episode was a (glorious) mess but I think everyone played well tonight, other than Debbie and Joe.

      • Other Scott

        I actually had no problem with Joe’s move. Show you’re loyal, the people you’re with always know you’re with them, you may be able to slip into a final 3 with someone like Jason and Aubry or Michele, and a Jason immunity in that situation gives you a very good chance to win the game.

      • Roswulf

        It’s interesting, I have the completely opposite perspective. I think everyone’s game was a tire fire except for Joe and possibly Tai and Michele (and Tai had his idiotic act of sabotage while Michele may not actually be on the season, her obvious winnerness notwithstanding). Scot and Jason solidified that they have no chance to win against anyone but eachother; Cydney and Aubrey fractured an alliance that likely only had a five-four majority in order to bounce someone who was an aggravating ally, but showed no signs of turning on them. Debbie was so aggravating her alliance blew up because they didn’t want to work with her. And Julia was the least convincing spy ever, and only saved herself by winning immunity.

        • Max_Jets

          Oh, Scot and Jason for sure fucked up in the long term, I guess I was more speaking in terms of the vote. Why do you think Aubry and Cydney made a bad move though? They don’t know that the other side has two idols and it’s not hard to imagine the idols being flushed by their plan either way. They don’t have any good options, but I think their logic was sound.

    • Kemper Boyd

      So what you are saying is this is all Michele’s fault for not stacking her blocks close enough together?

      • Other Scott

        YES

      • Purplerockmatt

        OWM really left the door open here and caused her own downfall

        • Other Scott

          Don’t be ridiculous. There’s no downfall. It was all part of OWM’s master plan to lose immunity here and keep the vote off Julia. She can clearly see the dominos that are set off by this that will lead to her winning the game.

          • Kemper Boyd

            I’m starting to think OWM stands for Omniscient Winner Michele.

          • Hornacek

            Or “Oprah Winfrey’s Michelle”.

    • tocantins

      It is a difficult decision. If there were no Super Idols, it would have worked well to flush the idols, and then the move would have been great. You can argue that option 2 would be a better option long term, and it might have been given that the men didn’t have to waste their idols, but then you need to examine how well she is with the other members of the main alliance. (Given that Cydney gets voted out.) So the question is whether Cydney is better for her than Debbie + Idols. And I’m not that confident that it was worth it, but again, if Debbie can’t be worked with, maybe she is more dangerous than the idols long term. Although she seems trustworthy and in with the Brain tribe.

      • Other Scott

        Yeah, but keep in mind she doesn’t know the votes are going to Cydney. They could have just as easily been going to her. I think if you know the vote is Cydney, and you have the power to make it happen, option 2 is easily a better decision.

        But she didn’t know that so playing it a little safer is acceptable.

        • Alkanarra

          But now that she does know their target, does she flush the idol to get Cydney out? And will she even be able to pull it off seeing as Cydney won’t go along with that plan?

          • Other Scott

            It’s probably a good move to try that, especially as now she would be trusting Julia a little more. And even if Julia flips, it’s 4-4 and still worth using an idol for the opposing alliance.

            But yeah, Cydney’s not going to be cool with that.

          • Alkanarra

            But let’s say it somehow works next week: the super idol is gone, taking Cydney with it, but the boys don’t need the idol anymore. Now all Julia needs to do is go back to the boys (which she’ll do) and Michele/Joe/Aubry are in the minority, at which point there’s no reason for Scot/Jason/Tai/Julia to not target Aubry and Michele. Aubry needed to flush the idol without losing numbers, which she can’t do anymore. That’s my problem with the Debbie vote.

          • Other Scott

            Right, in the situation she’s in the opposing alliance can’t stick together and have things work out with her. But that’s why time is important, there’s no guarantee the same situation will be true in three days as it is now.

            Take the safe play, stay in the game, and try to get something to go right for you in the form of a crack in the opposite alliance, either Tai or Julia. Or hope they just make a mistake with the idol.

            There’s still opportunities for Aubry, which there wouldn’t have been if the vote was coming to her, she didn’t take a safe choice, and is forced to go to Ponderosa.

        • tocantins

          Yes, I think that they probably suspected that Cydney was the one in danger, but when you are not sure and I can be you, it is much harder to offer someone as a sacrificial lamb.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Something to keep in mind, too, is that Julia apparently did not spill the beans to the guys about the Debbie vote, so she at least semi-demonstrated loyalty to the girls in that respect. If she were truly with the guys, I’m guessing we would have seen at least 7 votes for Debbie and the guys wouldn’t have pulled all those idol stunts at tribal. Then again, it could have been a temporary measure and she could always fully flip to the guys for the next vote if that’s her plan.

      • Other Scott

        I think the whole point of voting Debbie was trying to show the girls she was still with them. Having Scot, Tai and Jason vote that way as well is a pretty dead giveaway that she’s not.

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          Yeah that makes sense – she was able to show loyalty to the girls without hurting her potential alliance with the guys. I forget – did we ever see her agree to vote Cydney with the guys? Was she in on that plan?

  • Diego Armando

    This has been one weird ass season. I get the feeling that Tai will stick with the dark side and vote out Cydney next week.

  • andythesaint

    Last week I asked what Aubry would have to do to get people to stop praising her game. Apparently, “flipping on one alliance partner whom you could easily beat in the finals in favour of saving a different alliance partner that she can’t while still keeping a super idol in the hands of your enemies” is not that thing. Nor is targeting Julia because she can’t be trusted one minute, then putting COMPLETE TRUST in Julia the next.

    • Max_Jets

      There were zero good options for Aubry for this vote. I think Aubry’s game has been heavily flawed up to this point (not bad though), but I thought she did the best she could this episode. It’s easy to criticize when we know the results, but Aubry does not know who the other side is voting for and if they had voted for her AND they flushed out their idols she would look brilliant and it’s not hard to imagine it having gone that way. If she isn’t going to risk someone getting idoled out (which is a perfectly valid strategy), she has to trust Julia and it makes some sense for her to do that as the vote is in Julia’s best interest. She knows the vote is likely to go wrong too, it’s not like she’s blindly trusting her.

      • andythesaint

        I think in the end, she made an acceptable decision for bad reasons (RE: Julia distrust/trust).

        Here’s my bigger point: it’s okay to NOT praise her. That doesn’t mean she has to be criticized. Can’t we all just say that EVERYONE played badly and things just kind of happened? Or to say, as you are, “Aubry made the best of bad decisions”. Or “while the result wasn’t good, I understand why she did it”. But there are people (not so much here) STILL anxious to give her credit for awesome game play. The rush to always give her credit is baffling to me. (Well, I guess it’s not actually baffling. It’s the result of people blindly cheering for their favourite player).

        • Max_Jets

          “Can’t we all just say that EVERYONE played badly and things just kind of happened?”
          I would say almost everyone played well and things just kind of happened, but sure.
          I understand that blind praise is annoying, but I (and others) genuinely think Aubry made a really smart move that just didn’t work out. This is coming from someone that didn’t think JT played that bad in Heroes vs Villains though.

          • Other Scott

            I think JT made a big mistake in voting out Tom, though that didn’t end up mattering. Also, the letter was terribly written, and it probably would have been better if he didn’t write it.

            I think his idea with Russell was completely defensible though. I feel the same way about Tyson’s Parvati vote.

          • Purple Rock Emma

            Legitimately curious: What’s the defense for Tyson’s Parvati vote?

          • Other Scott

            I posted this on reddit a while back. Basically, there was no way that stray vote should have went wrong, and threatening Parvati should have went home rather than not-threatening-at-all Russell:

            I typically don’t like when things get nonsensical on Survivor, but the sheer number of dominoes that had to fall here:
            1. Tyson wants Parvati out because he correctly assumes she is more of a threat than Russell.
            2. Russell comes to Tyson and says he’s voting for Parvati. Why Russell does this, I don’t think he really even knows but he is a pathological liar (see him telling Brett he’ll force a tie in Samoa final 4 when there was no benefit to him lying about that) and I guess only good things can come of the opposition thinking votes are going a different way than they were.
            3. Tyson realizes that if Russell is voting for Parvati, there’s a good chance that Parvati and Danielle are voting for Russell, meaning there will be a 5-4 vote for Russell if they stick to a 3-3 split. He decides to go rogue, vote for Parvati, and make sure Parvati goes home.
            4. Parvati, Russell and Danielle vote together and don’t turn on one another despite knowing there’s basically no way they could win the vote.
            5. Russell, who was the only one looking for an idol and knowing that his name is being written down, plays the idol for Parvati for reasons that couldn’t have been inside the game. There is literally no logical reason to play the idol for Parvati here.
            6. Because of Tyson’s rogue vote that no one had any reason to see coming he goes home.
            It’s the most unlikely confluence of events that’s ever happened on Survivor. I’m not sure anything else even comes close. This is just Russell doing weird and backwards things that just happen to work perfectly because of Tyson’s need to eliminate Parvati. There really was no way that stray vote should have backfired, but it did.

        • Hornacek

          Dalton Ross said that Aubry and Cydney voting out Debbie was “the right choice but for the wrong reasons” since they didn’t know about the super-idol and Cydney would have been voted out if they had voted for one of Jason/Scot/Tai instead.

    • Other Scott

      I posted my defense of Aubry for this week below, but I will say this:

      Maybe if Aubry didn’t write down Julia’s name in the Peter vote, Julia would have felt a little more allegiance to her and the rest of the girls.

      And to all those Michelites: How do you let your number one ally the entire game just go and flip like that. How does that happen?

      • andythesaint

        How about if you’re really concerned about Julia, why is your first instinct to vote her out rather than try and win her back? Are we sure that Aubry has any social game to speak of?

        • Other Scott

          This one I can explain: Because you don’t need Julia in your alliance. You have a 6-3 advantage, and if Julia goes while simultaneously flushing out the idols, you now have a 5-3 advantage with people you actually trust as the 5. If you try to win Julia back, trust her with the vote, and fail, then you’ve put yourself in a lot of hot water.

    • Ms_Woozah

      Stephen called her a “strategic hot mess” last night and I can’t think of a more accurate description.

    • Minue

      98% of hardcore Survivor (and BB) fans are completely incapable of separating their feelings for a character and their actual gameplay.

      • andythesaint

        This is true. I do love that hardcore fans still have no trouble making fun of casuals for doing the exact same thing.

        • Alycia Swift

          Yes, me too. But the hardcore fans usually make fun for who the casuals choose, which are not usually the better players and sometimes are just their favorites based on looks, age and/or challenge ability not on actual strategic attempts or successes.

          • andythesaint

            I’d argue that hardcore fans also choose players based on looks, it’s just a different look that they’re going for.

            As for actual strategic attempts or successes, see: OWM.

  • itsafuckingSTICK

    I was praying that one of the girls was going to throw a pile of sand on the Chinese take-out while yelling “Hashtag sabotage!”

    • Purplerockmatt

      or start singing beastie boys sabotage like someone in my apartment was singing last night.

      • sharculese

        …can I hang out at your apartment?

      • itsafuckingSTICK

        Next week on Survivor: With Debbie no longer available to verify water safety by sight, one castaway’s trip to the well ends somewhere totally unexpected.

        Cue: Intergalatic! Planetary! Planetary! Intergalactic!

  • itsafuckingSTICK

    Having a near-wild chicken hang out on your bare, certainly scratched shoulders seems like a wonderful way to get one of those game-ending infections.

    • Hornacek

      That’ll be Andy’s evac scenario on the next episode.

  • itsafuckingSTICK

    I’m unreasonably pissed that there was no idol clue hidden in a fortune cookie. At the very least, I wish there had been fortune cookies with fortunes such as “You will be the sole survivor,” or, “You will die of dysentery.”

    • I thought that was where it was going. However, I can see Production being VERY happy with who has idols.

    • Something Quirky

      That would have been an awesome touch. If they went to the trouble of branding it ‘Lucky Camp’, it can’t have been that much extra effort.
      It seems like they haven’t hidden idol clues at food rewards for a few seasons now, but I always expect one to be there.

      • Hornacek

        I want a player to accidentally drink down an idol clue.

  • Assistant Dragon Slayer

    TL; DR if somebody’s already brought this up down thread, but now Tai has possession of the super-idol, he can ride it to the final four and get rid of challenge threats along the way. Scot and Cyd are the top priorities, obviously, but getting rid of both of them would require flipping between the two factions, and I just don’t know if Tai can pull that off.

    • Tai gave Jason’s idol back to him after tribal council.

  • Crappy

    So we must talk about obvious winner Michel’s edit. She once again was not seen making actually pivotal game moves but she did get that confessional in the start of the episode contrasted against Scott’s dickhead behavior. Also from secret scenes, it seems she is still with Julia and likely knew about her thing with Brawn. But we saw none of that in the episode to not link her with brawn at all.
    Secondly, I am interested in the amount of derision suddenly this edit is generating in online survivor community. Even in KIA’s, she/her edit got dissed. She does seem to lack charisma and despite the content of the confessional, her delivery just flat out stinks and fails to generate the requisite user attention. So I can understand people being turned off by an uninteresting vanilla character.
    But from game play perspective, her play is not that much different than other UTR winners who follow the Sandra’s ‘anyone but me’ doctrine. So yeah, she is not driving strategy and simply going along with other’s plans. But that is pretty much Sandra’s game, who mostly only dives into active action when her own neck is on the line. This complain about her not doing much seems hypocritical coming from some quarters.

    • Violina23

      With all due respect — that’s kinda the joke — it’s not that Michele has done anything wrong/offensive, it’s just the fandom and their insistence that she is destined to be the winner based on the edit. The whole “Obvious Winner Michele” is NOT a knock at Michele. She seems perfectly pleasant. But with that being said, we still retain the right to feel that, if she DOES win, she wasn’t a particularly interesting/dynamic winner with a great season-long story-arc.

      • Kemper Boyd

        This. Michele would be high on my list of Kaoh Rong contestants to grab a drink with, she seems nice, kind of funny, goofy but has not been interesting in the game.

      • Michelle though not that interesting/dynamic seems really smart and aware of what’s going on around her. She might not be the worst to one (c’mon Joe), but something about the drawl in her voice makes me not want to pay attention to what she says.

        • Hornacek

          Bro, she knows!

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    In the case of a vote split or tie, can the super idol be played after the re-vote? Does anyone know?

    • I don’t know if the answer was explicitly given. But since the wording was that it could be played after the votes are read, I would assume it could be played after any votes are read- initial voting, tie-breaker, etc.

      • Something Quirky

        That’s what I’ve been assuming, but that does seem very overpowered.

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          I agree that it seems overpowered, but then again I’m soooo bored of vote splitting that I can’t be that mad at something that blows it up.

          • Hornacek

            You know who else was bored of vote-splitting? Andrew Savage.

  • Hornacek

    Any chance Joe’s loved one visit is Philip?