Survivor Millennials vs Gen X Liveblog: “Million Dollar Gamble”

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"Million Dollar Gamble" - Ezekiel/Zeke Smith and Will Wahl on SURVIVOR: Millennials vs. Gen. X, on a two-hour SURVIVOR, Wednesday, Nov. 23 (8:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.. Photo: Screen Grab/CBS Entertainment ©2016 CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

 

Matt
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Matt

Matt has an irrational dislike for all contestants named Michel(l)e. Also if he ever takes a strong stance about why everyone else is wrong, it is he that is inevitably wrong.

Favorite seasons: Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, Palau, Philippines, Pearl Islands, Cagayan
Matt
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  • If you’re seeing crazy large Amazon ads, that’s my fault. Amazon is suddenly jacking up their referral rates until the end of November. Normally we get about a 3-4% cut when you buy through our link- it’s jumping up to 12% for the rest of the month.

    So my apologies if it’s obnoxious, but it’ll be gone in a week. And if you’re doing any Black Friday shopping at Amazon and you use our link, I’d greatly appreciate it.

    • sharculese

      But the show told me I’m supposed to buy shiny colonialism rocks! Am I supposed to argue with the tv?

    • Kemper Boyd

      I would but you are bastards who are far away in a different country.

      • andythesaint

        Same.

  • Black Dynamite

    I’m thankful for two hours of Survivor tonight and getting to interact with this wonderful community. I’m desperately trying to gravitate and embrace anything that can put a smile on my face. Every event that has happened in the last two weeks has seemingly confirmed that we’re living in hell.

    I will also be thankful if David, Hannah, Jay, Jessica, Ken and Zeke all survive these two hours. You fucking owe me this 2016.

    • Purplerockmatt

      man that would be such an awesome final 6

    • jersey_luck

      You know that at least one of those will be going home tonight. (Also no Chris)

    • the sky is falling

      If you were to tell me on January 11 that David Bowie dying wasn’t the worst thing to happen in 2016, I would have been the first to say, get outta here. how wrong I was.

      • andythesaint

        It was the canary in the coal mine.

        • Hornacek

          That’s Sting, not Bowie.

    • Streets_Ahead

      So it’s safe to say this is your fault then?

      • Black Dynamite

        Yep. I’ll take the blame for this one. I should’ve never trusted 2016.

        • Baulderstone

          You only lost one person from your list. That is a kindness coming from 2016.

    • gouis

      5/6 ain’t bad!

  • sharculese

    Guys, I think the show is trying to tell us that Jay has an idol.

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    What a wonderfully edited sequence.

    • Hornacek

      The only way it could have been better would have been if we had a shot of the last person to find out saying “Don’t tell anyone, but Jay has an idol.” and the camera pulls back revealing that they’re talking to Jay.

      • The other beautifully edited sequence was the juxtaposition of Zeke and David’s confessionals discussing each other, with them both essentially saying the same thing. It was wonderful.

      • Brady Larsen

        Carter: Penner, what do you want to do?. . . Katie or Penner?

        • Hornacek

          That was such a great Carter moment.

          (is something I never thought I would say)

          • Purple Rock Emma

            There was this sauce…

          • Hornacek

            (hopefully I’m remembering this right)

            The best Carter moment never made it to air (or at least acknowledgement that it was his doing) was during the reunion when Jeff asked “If Malcolm had made it to the finals, who would have voted for him?” and only a few (?) hands went up. The rumor is that some of the jury had discussed Jeff potentially asking this and Carter said “Let’s all say ‘no’ if Jeff asks that to mess with Jeff and Malcolm.”

            If this is true, then THAT is the Carter I wish had showed up to play that season.

  • the sky is falling

    will: please don’t tell anyone
    Zeke: lulz

    • Baulderstone

      I was shaking my head during that conversation. The only reason you share that kind of information is to use it. You can’t tell someone that and expect them to pretend they don’t know. I was also entertained that Will thought this getting out would blow up his game, as Jay was still in a position to go after anyone.

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    I can’t tell how tight Zeke and Chris are. Are they a ride-or-die alliance or an Illuminati duo negotiating what’s best for each of their factions?

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    No deep dish? Not interested.

    • andythesaint

      Deep dish isn’t even pizza. It’s a tomato casserole.

      Fight me.

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        Cracker crusts are flatbreads, and flatbreads are not pizzas. New York pizza is cardboard topped with an oil-slick. Deep dish gives pizza the heft it deserves (and near guarantees that no one will put pineapple on it, if that’s your beef)

        • andythesaint

          I am now going to lose any potential allies I may have won by calling deep dish pizza trash: Hawaiian is my favourite pizza.

          You really outboxed me with that one.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            Well let me throw this one at you then: pineapple and pepperoni. I haven’t had it, but someone told me about it and it makes sense. The spice and saltiness of the pepperoni pairs with the sweetness of the pineapple better than ham. Since you’re already in dangerous waters, I offer that to you if you want to tread further

          • gouis

            Yes delicious.

          • andythesaint

            I don’t know if I’ve ever tried it (even though I used to work at a pizza place). If I have, it didn’t make an impression.

            The best type of pizza is greek style pizza.

          • gouis

            I like Hawaiin but with a spicier meat than ham.

        • sharculese

          “flatbreads are not pizzas”

          Wait what? Pizza evolved as a form of flatbread. I’m not saying that means you can’t switch things up and try new variations, but saying pizza isn’t a flatbread is just wrong.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            But the evolution means that they became something new. Pizza has a thickness/heftiness that distinguishes it from flatbreads. If anything I would say that pizzas could be a subset of flatbreads, but I wouldn’t equate those groups

          • sharculese

            Some pizzas do. But like a traditional margherita, just tomatoes, garlic, mozzarella and basil? That’s still basically a flatbread.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            I’m not denying that there’s overlap. I’m just saying that the entirety of flatbreads doesn’t fall under pizza

      • gouis

        It’s delicious. Also not pizza.

  • the sky is falling

    I swear to god, if this I David’s goodbye episode, I’m gonna rage.

    • jersey_luck

      No man this is the David is going to win the season episode

      • the sky is falling

        I hope so, making me nervous, my ability to predict things is compromised since Nov 8

        • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

          It just means that we need to start preparing for a Will win

          • the sky is falling

            Will will will the win? I will say no

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            We’ve yet to witness Will’s will to win. Wouldn’t that be what makes it so wonderful?

      • sharculese

        ugh

        • jersey_luck

          I am not saying that with smile. I saying that because that is where the story is going.

          • the sky is falling

            I am smiling, always bet on the awkward nerd

      • Maritimer

        I’m still not sold it’s not the Spencer/Aubry personal growth but not the winner edit (maybe its just denial)

        • the sky is falling

          At this point, I’d put zeke , Dave, Ken in best position to win

          • Maritimer

            I would agree, with an outside shot to Jay and maybe Hannah. Of those lists, pulling for Zeke and Jay

          • Purplerockmatt

            yep this is my assessment as well

          • the sky is falling

            Don’t see a final 3 where Hannah wins, could see her final 3 tho

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            After the rock draw debacle, I think that Hannah has an easy ticket to being a final 3 goat (unless Zeke develops a vendetta)

      • Ms. Sweaterfan

        Tonight’s first episode was the first time that I really started wondering if David could win this. Of course, then he was immediately targeted by Zeke so………

  • jersey_luck

    I think this season is going to determined by who wins this immunity tonight’s first immunity challenge. .

  • the sky is falling

    standing still! This is right in David’s wheelhouse!

    • Mike Hirsch

      He has mastered that technique, which is incredible for someone so innately jittery.

  • Black Dynamite

    Even the ants can’t get enough of Ken. His beauty is all powerful.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Ken: Oh no, ants are crawling all over my rippling abs
      CBS: ~lingering closeup~

  • the sky is falling

    stop trying to make trust cluster a thing!

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      that’s #TrustCluster

    • jersey_luck

      stop trying to make voting blocks a thing.

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        They’re more of a coalition

    • Kingoftonga

      That’s what Bret said!

    • Side Character

      If they called it a trust clusterfuck, I would not object to that being made a thing.

    • gouis

      Rob C. is going to spend at least 45 minutes this week dissecting the difference between different types of groups.

      • TheForRealDeal

        And then work trust clusters into an ad for Nature Box.

        • Hornacek

          Nom Noms

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    Obviously the radio silence has Jay spooked, but is everyone telegraphing too much? To the point that Jay would hold his idol?

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    That’s it. Jay’s winning

    • Black Dynamite

      I’m not sure about that but I’m more impressed with him every episode.

      • the sky is falling

        Wouldn’t mind seeing him back for sure, I expected him to be the douche Taylor became

        • Black Dynamite

          Definitely. He has great potential. There are a few people I want to return and he is near the top of that list.

          • Alycia Swift

            I think those that have a chance to return at some point in the future: Ken, David, Michaela, Jay, Zeke, Hannah and Jessica (because of how she left), If they are looking for bikini babes and its a vote in second chance season, they may put Michelle or Figgi on the list.

        • jersey_luck

          To be honest I am a little shocked that they did not bring him back next season. But then I remember if he was on the cast the person he would be bumping is Malcolm and things make sense again.

          • Not Ozzy?

          • andythesaint

            Or Ozzy

          • sharculese

            Oh god, why couldn’t that have happened?

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        I’m more impressed with him, but that fact that no one’s taking direct shots at him and targeting every other threaten that he only needs a few immunity wins and a few close votes (where he works as a swing) to get to the finale

      • the sky is falling

        Is this the season where we have 3 winners? Would fit the theme. no million dollars, participation trophies for all!

  • the sky is falling

    no zeke! Don’t go after David, you monster!

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      No David! Don’t go after Zeke, you monster!

      • the sky is falling

        Touche

        • the sky is falling

          This storyline is a false flag operation though

  • Black Dynamite

    Hannah Moment of the Week Part 1. Her moment with Ken was the cutest. You would be a great catch, Hannah. Even Probst know you’re fantastic. The rise of Hannah continues. We are all witnesses. #TrustCluster

    • andythesaint

      Get it Hannah.

    • Crappy

      First secret scene is a must watch. David and Hannah have a conversation.

      • Black Dynamite

        I really enjoyed that. David and Hannah makes me think that I can do Survivor, until I come to my senses.

  • sharculese

    God, Bret talking about stuffing David is giving me awful Australian Survivor flashbacks.

  • sharculese

    NERD PANIC!

  • the sky is falling

    ass closeup challenge!

  • sharculese

    This snake challenge is… stupid. Gonna go play some Stardew Valley.

    • the sky is falling

      Pretty silly

    • NearlyNina

      Nooooo! I loved this challenge. Absolutely hilarious. And there were different ways to tackle it which made it interesting

      • I was wondering why no one tried rolling over and shuffling backwards, which would have been way easier. Against the rules?

        • Alycia Swift

          I was wondering about that myself. Using the back of the legs might and the butt might have helped.

          • You could pretty much have sat upright and used your feet to push yourself along.

            Usually it seems you can use whatever technique you like in survivor challenges, but I can only assume the rules for this one were that you had to remain on your stomach, or else surely someone would have tried a different technique (also possible, if you are flexible and have good balance: getting yourself upright and then jumping).

            Some people did seem able to get some sort of army crawl going, though.

        • NearlyNina

          Interesting! It could also just have been in the way the challenge was described to them since it’s pretty obvious that the whole sand in the face thing is what Jeff and the producers were going for, so in the heat of the moment they just may not have thought to get that creative.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I was wondering why nobody turned 90 degrees and rolled like a log.

    • Baulderstone

      It seemed like they were just trying to meet their blur quota for the season with this one.

      • Black Dynamite

        Also known as the Amanda Kimmel.

      • Alycia Swift

        I, for one, was glad Bret was blurred.

  • jersey_luck

    I am stunned that you think Bret is drunkest survivor ever when the correct answer is still Johnny Fairplay.

    • Purplerockmatt

      ok yeah that is obvious, so maybe second drunkest?

      • sharculese

        Heidik. Tom Westman. Bret’s a heavy drinker who won’t turn down a beer. He’s closer to Boston Rob than to the people who truly get hammered on Survivor.

        • Streets_Ahead

          Tom and Brian got drunker one time, but Bret has drank more over the full season.

          • sharculese

            That’s what I’m saying. Bret drinks like a fish, but we never see trashed Bret. It’s possible he’s just a giant dude who drinks a lot and can handle it.

        • andythesaint

          If someone wants to do a post on drunk Survivors this week, we would consider it.

          Note: Emma and I are terrible candidates to write such a post.

          • sharculese

            1. Rob C. getting drunk after the Amazon merge
            2. Big Tom in All-Stars
            3. Heidik getting drunk in Thailand to prove he’s not a robot
            4. Fairplay showing drunk to tribal council
            5. The Gautemala banquet
            6. Tom Westman
            7. Boston Rob and Kathy V-O
            8. Jan Gentry, just in general
            9. Jen at the Worlds Apart auction
            10. Wes Nale and the taco overload

            Honorable mention: Skupin’s sugar high, because it’s funny

            I promise no dog pictures.

          • andythesaint

            I’m embarrassed for you that you missed Bob Dawg and Bruce in Cada de Charmin.

          • sharculese

            Shit, that slides in between Heidik and Fairplay, not so much for the moment itself as for Bob Dawg being a dick to Courtney the day after.

          • sharculese

            I also missed the wine party from Thailand, which I would consider swapping out Jan for because a third of this list can’t just be Thailand.

          • Hornacek

            Drunk dogs are not funny.

          • Hornacek

            Because it hits too close to home?

          • andythesaint

            Neither of us drink.

          • Hornacek

            (gasps) I thought I was the only one!

            There are dozens of us! Dozens!

    • Hornacek

      How many times did Fairplay get drunk? Bret has gotten drunk multiple episodes.

      • HBO CEO of Tits

        I recently watched pearl islands. I’d say Fairplay is drunk about 55% of his time on the island.

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    So just an informal poll: What do you think builds the best bonds?
    – sharing idol information
    – drinking some beer
    – coming out

    • Purplerockmatt

      beer. always beer

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        So that’s why Will isn’t part of a tight alliance

        • Nobody bonds over milk.

          • sharculese

            Not true.

            Right after I finished college I was dating a girl who was fairly conservative but also somehow social justice oriented (this was, of course, back before social justice was a term, but it’s the best way to describe her.)

            So I suggest that we go see Milk together The basic description of it made her interested. On the way there I described it in more detail, and she got really angry that I had talked her into seeing a Sean Penn movie because of course Sean Penn was the worst.

            Afterwards she was just like “thanks for making me see this. It was amazing.” So Milk does bring people together.

          • andythesaint

            You really do have to trick people into seeing a Sean Penn movie. He deserved the Oscar because he ended up making a movie where I didn’t hate Sean Penn.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            Say that to the people breastfeeding their four-year-olds

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      According to Survivor lore, coming out was Rich’s original alliance builder in Borneo I believe. I was absolutely loving the Bret/Zeke scene and I think it really cemented their bond, but how often can that situation occur (more, I hope).

  • Black Dynamite

    I’m now in deep fear for Hannah’s safety. Please let her survive.

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      Who’d have thought that David’s neuroses would be her downfall?

      • Black Dynamite

        Well his or her own. I’m not ready to say goodbye to Hannah. Maybe she’ll win immunity. #wishfulthinking

  • the sky is falling

    Hey it’s a trump challenge, swastika puzzle! survivor, we need to talk.

  • sharculese

    Slide puzzles work on a learnable algorithm. Fucking learn it before you go on Survivor.

    • sharculese

      Jay knew the algorithm.

      • the sky is falling

        David knew it too, too slow on puzzle. Preseason interview he said he created 3D puzzles at home

        • sharculese

          3D puzzle and slide puzzle are different strategies. There’s a very specific way of moving tiles to get what you want that becomes obvious if you do enough slide puzzles. Jay looked like he knew it.

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        the key is working the corner pieces well. Everything else is negotiable

        • sharculese

          It’s been a minute since I’ve done a slide puzzle, but there are rules about how to move pieces around the board to get the result you want. I have one that’s literally just the numbers 1-15 that’s really good if you want to think about how moving pieces works.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            I keep everything rotating in the same direction (clockwise) and decease the dimensions. So finish the top row and leftmost column to go from a 3×3 to a 2×2. That strategy and knowing how to place corner pieces has worked well. At one point I was able to do 3×3’s in about 10 seconds.

          • sharculese

            I like that strategy, but a Survivor slide puzzle is, at least, gonna be a 4×4.

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            Still works I think. It’s scalable with larger dimensions

          • sharculese

            For sure.

            The thing is, the more pieces you have, the more it becomes about moving pieces around the board unless you know how slide puzzle pieces move. See Tony in Cagayan.

          • NearlyNina

            I’m pretty good at puzzles except when it comes to slide puzzles.
            I’d be Tony!

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            This all sound very similar to how you solve a Rubiks Cube, said the GenXer.

          • The one I learned is placing the top left piece, then following a fairly consistent algorithm to move the piece you need to the next spot. Then repeat.

            I did a terrible job of explaining that.

    • gouis

      Or just move the pieces around at a thousand miles an hour like Tony. Either/or

      • andythesaint

        It could’ve worked if he just had more time.

        Like an hour or so.

      • Hornacek

        This is also the strategy Tony used on the final immunity challenge where he had to place the cogs in the proper positions and then spin them. He spent most of that challenge just spinning cogs randomly.

        • gouis

          Damn I love Tony so much.

    • Crappy

      same goes for that color faced puzzle.

      • Assistant Dragon Slayer

        I noticed that several blocks had three adjacent sides with the same color. Just common sense should tell you that you have to put that color on the top and/or bottom.

  • PotatoQueen

    Rip Zeke 🙁

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    As per Diego, it’d be great if Adam said “ADAM WANT TO BE WITH TAYLOR. SEND ADAM TO TAYLOR” and Zeke stayed safe

  • the sky is falling

    David is the most threatening person in… Words never spoken before today

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    Zeke’s using a lot of military lingo. I wonder if he read up on Sun Tzu before going out

  • the sky is falling

    Sweet fantasy points otw

  • PotatoQueen

    Honestly I am pretty sure it’s Zeke. It has to be.

  • Alycia Swift

    I am so nervous.

    • the sky is falling

      No clue what’s happening here

  • the sky is falling

    Is Bret drunk?

    • Alycia Swift

      Are they voting Ken?

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        I think that was Sunday’s first Survivor lie

  • jersey_luck

    Oh my god I think Will or Sunday is going to get the purple rock

  • sharculese

    Finally, someone calls out David on the whole crying to get his way thing!

    • the sky is falling

      Don’t think that’s true, just a nervous, socially incompetent guy

      • sharculese

        No, it’s totally manipulative and it’s been obvious for a while now. I’m glad he got called on it.

        • the sky is falling

          As a nervous nerd I have to disagree, you are a Paul

          • sharculese

            I”m absolutely not a Paul, that’s why i can identify behavior I’m ashamed to have used. David knows every string he was playing. The breakdown at the first reward challenge came from a real place, but it was also a calculated sympathy grab. Good or him for doing what he needed to, but it’s transparent if you see his approach.

          • the sky is falling

            Ok, sorry for the accusation, no harm intended. good gameplay on his part I guess

    • Speaking as a gay guy, I’m not sure I loved the two gay guys using that tactic, though.

      • sharculese

        Trying to manipulate emotions to get the reaction you want is a universal thing. I’ve never thought of that as a thing associated with gay men, and I don’t think the show tried to show it that way as all.

        • This wasn’t just one of billions of random ways of “manipulating emotions.” This was two gay guys implying that he was a sissy, and it’s not a good look for any gay guy to do, considering what we deal with on a daily basis.

          • It just felt really out of place, but it felt completely rehearsed as well because Zeke started to repeat what Bret was saying.

          • It’s easy to have the script down when you hear it all the time growing up. Which is why it grates on me when we turn it on other people.

          • the sky is falling

            Was anyone else really surprised by zeke suddenly going after David? It seemed way to early to break a strong pair to me

          • I think Chris was the connective tissue there, so once he was gone, they were free to attack each other. However, I would agree because they have now painted themselves as the big threats while potentially bigger threats like Jay and Ken slither by.

          • Purplerockmatt

            but to Zeke and David Ken isn’t a bigger threat because they see the strategic person as the threat and that is David and Zeke

          • Good call, which elevated by the fact that Ken doesn’t know who to vote for at Tribal Council. At least he voted for the way his alliance went.

          • Purplerockmatt

            Ken knew who to vote for, he was playing to the confusion crowd

          • At that point, I was really thrown off by Zeke and Bret yelling at David.

          • Purplerockmatt

            yeah that shocked me too. Bret I could kinda understand, but Zeke surprised me

          • sharculese

            As I said above, I think David’s “pity me” schtick may be starting to grate on people.

          • DrVanNostrand

            At least it’s grating on them when they’re on the other side of his alliance.

          • sharculese

            Isn’t that the thing, thought? It’s easier to excuse people’s foibles when you’re on their side. Once they’re not, it’s like, “oh yeah, this person is irritating.”

          • That’s entirely possible. But I think there was a better way to address that than the way Zeke and Bret did.

          • sharculese

            It depends. If Zeke and Bret are the only ones who it’s wearing on, then yes, it was not the best idea.

            But if there are more people talking about it and we’re just not seeing it, then maybe highlighting it at TC is a useful tactic.

          • To clarify, I’m saying that it’s totally fine of them to bring it up at tribal council. But framing it as “Oh, are you going to cry again? Is this not part of your journey?” was not the way to broach that subject.

          • sharculese

            I’m not sure it wasn’t. David’s gotten a lot of out of getting all weepy and basically daring people to not feel sorry for him. Blatantly throwing a punch at that is maybe not a bad move at this point.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yes, as I said elsewhere, I think both lost some jury votes tonight because of how they acted. David did note that Bret and Zeke (more Zeke) were getting personal and he never got personal (which at that point was true).

          • Figaro

            Yeah, I know Zeke was probably feeling pretty stressed going into that tribal but his behaviour towards David felt like borderline bullying to me

          • Ms. Sweaterfan

            Me too. I got whiplash from loving Bret in the ‘beer buddies’ scene to feeling like he’d lost his mind and was lashing out unnecessarily at tribal.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Zeke knew he’d have to target David eventually, but I think what triggered it was Bret telling Zeke that David was telling everyone he was the biggest threat.

          • sharculese

            Which could just as easily be an artifact of Bret and Zeke having conversations about how they were frustrated with David’s behavior where they traded language. His behavior at that first reward challenge was incredibly bratty, and I doubt it’s the first time he’s acted that way.

          • I haven’t watched the first half of the first episode yet, so that is my defense for my defense of David.

          • Kingoftonga

            Yeah, I wasn’t impressed with Bret or Zeke there. I get that emotions would be running high, but that seemed too personal (and bad jury management to boot – who belittles someone for crying and then expects them as a vote in the end?)

            The episode really humanized Bret, but between that and his “You’d still be here if you voted the way I told you!” parting shot to Jessica, it wasn’t a great tribal for him.

          • Everyone knew walking into that tribal that it was going to probably be a tie, and then the ramifications of that, so people were exceptionally tense, and that’s when you learn who can control themselves in those pressure situations best. Bret…did not do well.

            I think I’d feel safer in the world if he was, in fact, a funeral director.

          • Oh my gosh, I didn’t even think about that.

          • To be fair, he’s starving and probably very horny (hey Ken).

          • Baulderstone

            Good point on jury management. It’s not just a matter of losing David’s vote. They both looked like dicks in front of everyone who is either in the jury or will be in the future. If the final decision comes down to who is more likable, that could hurt them.

          • Alycia Swift

            A lot of people lost jury votes tonight if they make it to the end for some of the comments that were made. Bret would never get Jessica’s for example. Zeke’s probably lost a couple. That’s one of the reasons I think Ken might win. He does not seem to tear people down, which has become very commonplace on survivor. Bret is showing more and more he is a cop and was never cut out to be a funeral director (sure working part-time at a funeral home, fine, but he does not seem to have the empathy for the job he claims he has.)

          • sharculese

            Maybe it’s a difference of perspectives, but I didn’t read it that way. I read it as a continuation of the previous episode, where David made a grand display of talking about how much he sucked, with intention being to get people to say, “no, David, you totally don’t suck.”

            I get being frustrated with that, especially if you’re the two people who have been marginalized in a way David can’t even imagine.

          • the sky is falling

            Man, David makes me realize I would suck at Survivor, I’d piss people off without intending to

          • andythesaint

            Everyone does. You just have to hope other people do it more than you.

          • Fair enough. I guess I feel like they could have picked on his neuroses without feminizing it, but I also admit that I’m a raw nerve since Unpleasantness ’16, and the rumors are true that for a marginalized group, gay males unfortunately can often deploy these types of tactics within their groups of friends to let people know where they stand in the hierarchy. I’ve been on both sides of this equation, and I guess seeing it play out triggered me, this month of all months, because we (and by that I mean all marginalized groups) need to be more supportive, especially in my community.

          • I’ve used the word “triggered” more times in the last two weeks (9999999999) than ever before (maybe twice, both times ironically).

          • Prom King

            I didn’t like what Bret & especially Zeke did there, but how were they feminizing his neuroses? I just thought they were mocking his ongoing tearful monologues. I see it more as him being called a big baby rather than being called a little girl. Unless one of them actually called him a little girl, in which case I take back everything I just said.

          • Hornacek

            Or maybe David was saying “I suck” because he legitimately thinks that he sucks and wasn’t thinking “How can I use my insecurity to get people to say nice things about me?”

            Until I see something on the show (or hear from David now) that says he was doing this just to get sympathy from other people, I’m going to take him at his word that he is legitimately feeling this way and expressing these emotions honestly. Saying that it’s obvious that David is faking all of these emotional outbursts just to get sympathy without any proof is fan fiction.

          • sharculese

            He probably doesn’t even realize he’s doing it. Throwing a pity party for himself and seeing who accepts the invitation is probably just ingrained behavior at this point.

            I’ve not only had a lot of Davids in my life, in my less proud moments I’ve been a David. This brand of bullshit is not new to me and it’s easy to recognize. And I’m glad I had people call me out on it when I did it, because it’s a shitty way to treat other people.

          • sharculese

            O/T: New entry in “my life would make more sense if I were gay,” I walked into the living room this morning and my roommate was watching the episode of Parks and Rec with Parker Posey, and I involuntarily blurted out “omigod, it’s America’s greatest national treasure.”

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Spooky. I watched that episode for the first time ever on Tuesday. The fight scene was some impressive physical comedy.

            And speaking of Parks and Rec, I binged all three seasons of Transparent recently and I’d gladly cosign an AGNT nomination for Jennifer Barkley Kathryn Hahn.

        • the sky is falling

          I’m confused, are you calling it bad gameplay? Or just sad that no one there seems to see through it?

          • sharculese

            I think it’s a card he had to play. I don’t think he played it well.

          • the sky is falling

            Ok, now I follow you

    • Figaro

      I really don’t read David’s behaviour as a calculated sympathy grab. He doesn’t seem to have a lot of faith in himself and his confessionals are consistent with his in-game struggles. It’s not hard for me to believe that his emotions are strongly felt and that he cries easier than most.
      On the other hand, if this is all just manipulation on his part (and I really don’t think it is) then doesn’t that make him a pretty impressive player in terms of finding a way to control the way others perceive him and garner their sympathies?

  • the sky is falling

    Balls out, incorrect move by David

  • Alycia Swift

    Waste of idol.

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      But a great play/act by Zeke, Bret, and Sunday

  • the sky is falling

    purple rock!!!

  • the sky is falling

    Purple rocks!!!

  • Alycia Swift

    This gets added to craziest tribal counsel list.

  • Alycia Swift

    I would love to see Will or Bret go.

  • the sky is falling

    what is this sorcery? Black rocks? That’s a diss!

    • Rocks hadn’t appeared since Marquesas when we started the podcast. Since we started, they’ve happened several times (not just at tribal council), and it’s almost always black and white rocks.

      It’s like the show hates us.

      • Purplerockmatt

        that is the only reasonable explanation

      • Streets_Ahead

        But for the show to hate you that means they know you exist so is that a win?

        • DrVanNostrand

          Is that what we’re pretending?

        • andythesaint

          TBH, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if someone in management knows we exist.

          I’d be shocked if they ever listened or read.

      • Hornacek

        Time for the website to rebrand itself!

  • Alycia Swift

    Ironic – David saved her and then his move caused her to leave.

    • But kinda also Adam’s move caused her to leave.

      • Kingoftonga

        I’m sure Adam will gain forgiveness next week when he steals somebody’s loved one visit.

        • The alliance imploding this week was the best possible thing for Adam. He’s off everyone’s radar again, seemingly.

          • Baulderstone

            I do wonder how much he is even on anyone’s radar, even after last week. His advantage doesn’t grant any real gameplay advantage. If he is on anyone’s radar, it is probably as they guy they would like to be sitting next to in front of the jury.

          • If the alliance had held together and Jay had continued Taylor’s vendetta, I think they might have ended up booting Adam just for a quiet life. He is definitely in a good spot to get in front of the jury now though.

          • Alycia Swift

            Until he puts himself back on there.

        • Figaro

          During the helicopter reward when Adam talked about saving his reward I realised that despite the fact that it’s social suicide he is 100% definitely intending on using it for the loved ones visit, and then the previews confirmed it. He is so hilariously oblivious to the social aspect of the game.

      • Mike Hirsch

        I hope Adam isn’t as terrible at all the other facets of his life as he is at playing Survivor. Like, when everyone else is offering condolences on Facebook in the style of “So sorry about your dog,” his comment would just be “Your dog died.”

        • jersey_luck

          He better not because I not sure if this has flashed the screen enough but Adam’s real world occupation: homeless shelter manager.

          • NearlyNina

            Honestly though…
            From the very beginning he reminded me of of the kinds of privileged and clueless people who go around “helping” people while at best being ineffective and eventually go on to bigger and better things with a well-padded resume and the conviction that they are good people.

            I want to say that I can’t imagine Adam is this much of a inept wreck irl, but I’ve had the misfortune of meeting a lot of Adam’s in the real world.

            That being said though, I do think that his mom having cancer is really influencing him to be a far more emotional player than he would otherwise be. He’s not like Jon and playing in spite of a cancer story, he’s playing FOR his mom and I feel like that’s eclipsed any game or social ability he might otherwise have had. He’s not thinking about what would be good for his game, he’s thinking about what would be good for his mom.

          • andythesaint
          • ExtraLargePelican

            That’s a pretty mean thing to apply to a specific real person.

        • Purplerockmatt

          “your dog died and i know that hurts, but i did that. I killed your dog. And I have to live with that.”

          • Mike Hirsch

            “I hope that my callous murder of your dog in no way takes me out of the running for the open position I have applied for. I look forward to working at your company alongside you!”

          • Baulderstone

            It’s always good to remind people who the real victim is during an apology.

          • Saturday Night Palsy

            I feel like it’s not a true apology unless it is shouted at me from three feet away.

          • Purplerockmatt

            SNP I SCREWED YOUR FANTASY TEAM. THAT WAS ME. I OWN UP TO THAT.

        • Hornacek

          He would also be yelling this when he said it to you.

      • Baulderstone

        And Hannah blowing her conversation with Zeke. I enjoyed this episode, but it is always a little disappointing that it was decided more by David, Hannah and Adam all fucking up rather than by Zeke being clever.

        • Ms. Sweaterfan

          Yes! I was definitely shouting at my TV again during that scene. JUST LIE HANNAH! IT’S SO SIMPLE!

          • Baulderstone

            I know I have said it already here, but I was do frustrated that I need to say it again: She was even talking to him because she planned to find out he was voting for David so they could use the idol appropriately and blindside him. It wasn’t like Zeke threw her a curveball. He playing right into her hands!!!!

          • andythesaint

            If Hannah makes it to the Final Tribal Council, they’re going to have put a shot clock on her answers. Because she will freeze for at least a minute after each question.

          • sharculese

            Oh god, I want that, now.

      • Crappy

        Do we know that David was playing the idol for Hannah, I think he was playing it for himself before Adam butted in.

        • andythesaint

          Same. In fact, I’m kinda surprised that he was able to make the change that late into the process except that I’m not because the show will stretch most of its rules and conventions in the moment if they find it interesting.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Yeah, that was weird. I read it as Probst waiting for David to say something (which I don’t think he did after “Jeff” before standing up, I could remember it wrong though) and David stalling until he sat down again and gathered some advice.

          • Crappy

            I re watched the episode and it is such a weird sequence. Even Hannah stops him at first and then bottles saying what she was about to. Then Adam pipes up about the Ken thing and David actually tells Probst the answer when he sits down.

          • Hornacek

            Maybe once you sit down the idol is officially played and you change who you’re playing it for until then? Like how you can take back a chess move until you take your hand off the piece.

    • Hornacek

      It’s like the Chinese (?) expression that when you save someone’s life you are responsible for that person. The only reason Jessica lasted this long in the game was because David saved her earlier. All of these extra days were a gift.

      So when you think about it, she really should have given the legacy advantage to David. If it wasn’t for him she would have been out on day 12

  • Alycia Swift

    Ok these two episodes were a Thanksgiving treat!!

  • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

    Somehow this already feels like the craziest post merge yet

  • Streets_Ahead

    Well that was fun!

    • the sky is falling

      Big league fun

      • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

        bigly fun

      • andythesaint

        Too soon.

        • gouis

          It will always be too soon.

    • andythesaint

      Legit might be one of my favourite episodes ever. Already.

  • PotatoQueen

    I’ve never been so happy to be completely wrong. We have an amazing tie that goes to rocks and the rivalry is still alive!!!

  • hardcöre umlaut

    GodDAMMIT Adam. Screwing everything up once again. Hannah knew it down to her bones but no one listened. David would really rather waste an idol on his manbro and send a great ally packing than listen to Hannah?

    • But: KEN

      • Alycia Swift

        People seem to want to give him things, don’t they. Reminds me of the John Hamm 30 Rock episodes.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I’ve been saying that about Ken for weeks.

        • Mike Hirsch

          I wouldn’t mind giving Ken a thing. Wait, what?

          • Alycia Swift

            That was funny.

    • Baulderstone

      Why the fuck would you listen to what the other alliance was stage whispering at you? So stupid. In any case, David really should have known better than to trust the instincts of Adam.

      Hannah only had herself to blame though. The only reason her name got written down was because she couldn’t handle a simple conversation with Zeke. She convinces David not to be neurotic, that their plan will work, and she then blew it all up by simply not being able to smile and nod.

      • Hornacek

        Adam probably thought he had intuited that they were voting for Ken and was being very clever, when in fact they lied to his face with a decoy plan and he fell for it.

    • Figaro

      Pretty good play from Sunday though. Even if it was fairly obvious she was lying she said it so casually that she managed to reel Adam (and maybe Hannah?) in. I didn’t think she had it in her.

      • Hornacek

        Even though when David was making his decision Hannah said “They’re voting for me”, didn’t it seem at first like she wasn’t sure and thought maybe they were voting for Ken?

    • As much as Adam pissed me off there, now we have at least another week of both David and Zeke.

      • Hornacek

        I would love it if it continued to be David vs. Zeke for the rest of the season, but they’re unable to vote each other off because of reasons.

  • Adam screaming in every confessional was the gun in Act I.

    Adam screeches “They’re going to vote for Ken,” and Boom, we have an Act III gunshot.

  • Was Bret still drunk at Tribal? Did the hangover just hit?

    • DrVanNostrand

      It seemed to me that animosity between the two alliances dramatically increased in a way that we weren’t shown leading up to tribal. Zeke actually made fun of David for crying, when they were good pals just a few days earlier. It was crazy!

      • Alkanarra

        We see that all the time though: vilify the person you’re aiming to vote out. It makes it easier to break the very real emotional bonds that develop if you can convince yourself you never really liked the person.

      • Hornacek

        He also made fun of “trust clusters”, crushing Hannah’s joy at creating a new Survivor term.

        Bret did not come across well at tribal. In the preview we see Will potentially switching alliances to join David – we don’t know if this is for real or not, and if it is why he’s doing it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he was upset at Bret and Zeke’s insults to David at this tribal and didn’t want to be with them anymore.

        • Don’t forget him yelling at Ken while Ken was just trying to answer Probst.

          • Hornacek

            Show us your abs and say that again, Bret! Yeah, I didn’t think so!

  • Black Dynamite

    I’m shaking. I feel so bad for Jessica. Tough way to go. Adam and David believing the vote was on Ken was astonishingly dumb. Hannah was right, she was the target. David’s stock took a dip after tonight.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’ll give credit to Hannah for correctly sniffing that one out. She gets a demerit for being terrible at lying to Zeke.

      • Yeah, that was awful. Any Survivor fan knows that hesitation=lying to other players.

      • Baulderstone

        I’m not giving her credit for knowing it was her. The only reason she knew was because she practically told Zeke she was going to betray. You don’t get points for knowing you are the target when you set yourself up like that.

        • andythesaint

          Also: I imagine EVERYONE’S first concern is that it’s going to be them.

    • Hornacek

      In David’s defense, the only person telling him that the target was Hannah … was Hannah.

      David: “Why are you sure they’re voting for you?”
      Hannah: “Because when Zeke talked to me I couldn’t lie to him to save my life. I might as well have told him ‘I’ve turned on you.'”
      David: (pauses) Why am I aligned with you again?

  • DrVanNostrand

    Noooooo!!!! My two favorite players have turned on each other. Also, Ken is teaching people about proper staring in to the sun technique. No way that could ever go wrong.

    • Hornacek

      Zeke vs. David is like SJdS’ Josh vs. Jeremy.

      Next episode – Hannah goes blind from staring at the sunrise too long.

  • This looks bad for David, but overall I think his alliance of editor’s favourites Adam, Hannah and Beautiful Unicorn Ken looks likelier for the endgame than Zeke’s alliance of Obvious Threat Jay and three redshirts.

    • DrVanNostrand

      Agree 100%.

    • the sky is falling

      I think zeke lost a lot of ground this week if you are talking edit, David got either a winner or Aubrey edit this week

      • I think what we learnt tonight is that Zeke is RUTHLESS. Which: good for him, but he’s got a lot of votes to negotiate his way past still, and the target on him just increased massively.

        • the sky is falling

          Yes, I feel like it was premature to target david

          • I thought Jay made his move on Michaela too soon as well, but at least he was successful!

          • Roswulf

            Eh, I think this was the last chance to target David without a risk of him using his idol.

            Obviously Hannah’s betrayal blew that up, but I don’t fault Zeke for thinking Hannah was with hi,

    • Black Dynamite

      After that second episode, I would move Jay up in the rankings for most likely to win. He keeps getting by and is playing things low key with an idol.

      • Agreed, he’s playing really well. In a fight between him and Zeke, though, who wins Bret and Sunday’s souls? If they manage to remove David, that’s surely the next battle.

        • Kingoftonga

          That’s tough…Sunday has the mom thing going on with Jay, which he seems to actively encourage, but this episode also did a lot to make the Bret/Zeke bond look very tight.

          • Given how adroitly Bret disassociated himself from Chris this episode, I think if it looks like the tide is turning badly against him Bret will suddenly be ‘Zeke? Who? Is that the short guy I see running around sometimes? Below my field of general vision? Never heard of him.’

  • Hornacek

    Random thoughts (first episode):

    Who would have thought after Paul was voted out 15 episodes ago that he would still be mentioned and affecting strategy?

    Hannah’s confessional is all about hoping Ken likes her. We didn’t see a Ken confessional, meaning it probably would have been like “I like Hannah; she’s like a kid sister.”

    Big Will?

    Jeff says the reward includes beer … and doesn’t mention pop for Big Will? Boo!

    They didn’t have to include David’s offer to sit out but they did. Growth edit or winner’s edit?

    David, don’t be like that. You’re not gonna lose the challenge for your team because of your swimming ability! You’re gonna lose it because of your puzzle-solving ability!

    Everyone is overcome with emotion about the letters from home … except for Bret. “Ok, calm down, no big deal. Gimme another beer.”

    Sunday isn’t Jessica’s arch-nemesis – it’s Chris! Sorry Sunday.

    Even ants are obsessed with Ken’s abs.

    David wins immunity and cries twice in one episode? He’s obviously winning this season.

    Voting blocks are so 2015. Everyone’s into trust clusters now.

    Who was more shocked? Chris at getting blindsided, or Sunday for not being Jessica’s target?

    Random thoughts (second episode):

    David draws the white rock. Everything’s coming up David!

    Jeff tells the losers to “head back to camp.” as the camera pulls back and shows the sand spit surrounded by water with no way back to shore.

    Once again Hannah is telling someone to stop freaking out (shakes head).

    Zeke-a-roni???

    Hannah becomes Zeke’s target because she has a terrible poker face. Well at least she knows it.

    Suddenly at tribal Bret turns into a dick. Don’t mention trust clusters around him.

    Even the giant bugs are hitting on Taylor. Seriously, how was he that calm?

    Poor Adam. In his defense they did say Ken’s name. But he has had a pretty awful run these past few weeks.

    BLACK rock???

    Bret is right, it’s all David’s fault that they drew rocks, no one else’s.

    Hey, remember when two episodes on one night meant they were both dull episodes? Me neither.

    My Canadian station switched back to the CBS feed during Jessica’s final words during the credits. Can anyone tell me what she said?

    • I love Sunday in that moment of telling Adam Ken because she is clearly just watching him answer Probst’s question. Had Adam paid attention to the fact that Sunday wasn’t giving him the time of the day, he could saved Jessica in the game.

      • Hornacek

        So Sunday won! She got out her nemesis … who wasn’t even thinking about her. Way to win that one-sided feud, Sunday!

    • DrVanNostrand

      The whole ant thing was just an excuse for the camera to linger on Ken’s amazing body. There may have been ants, but the cameras sure didn’t catch it. What the cameras did catch was some serious beefcake.

      • Hornacek

        The proof is that they didn’t show Adam’s abs when the ants went after him.

      • The intern that ‘accidentally’ dripped honey all over Ken’s chest immediately before the challenge is getting a raise.

    • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

      Jessica really took her boot hard because she knows that if she had switched to Hannah on the revote, she’d have stayed in the game. I think that was pretty much her final words.

      • Hornacek

        But didn’t Jeff say that it had to be unanimous, that everyone had to agree to vote for the same person? If Jessica had said “I’m switching my vote to Hannah” that’s not a guarantee that everyone else would have done that. Ken? David?

        • No, she was talking about the revote, not the discussion after the second vote (when you need a unanimous decision).

          • Hornacek

            Ah, the second revote, not the first one.

        • Kent McK

          I think she was referring to the re-vote, not the discussion regarding a unanimous vote that took place after the re-vote, which was a tie. Zeke was goading Jessica to switch her vote, and I actually thought she was going to switch her vote to Hannah.

          • Zeke’s goading, amazingly, was “I have shown no real loyalty to any alliance so far and betray my allies all the time, so if you flip your vote I might not send you home next”. Which I’m sure his current allies WHO WERE SITTING RIGHT THERE loved.

    • Alycia Swift

      What others said, but also she gave Ken the legacy advantage as she said she would.

      • Hornacek

        “Ken, I’m giving you the legacy advantage out of guilt because you tried to save me in the Lucy vote but I didn’t believe you. I’m doing this instead of giving it to David who, let’s face it, is the one responsible for me not getting voted out back on day 12”

        • “Ken, I’m giving you the legacy advantage because you are really, really hot.”

          • Hornacek

            Survivor Judge: … (ponders) … I’ll allow it.

    • prettyboyprobst

      Hannah’s confessional is all about hoping Ken likes her. We didn’t see a
      Ken confessional, meaning it probably would have been like “I like
      Hannah; she’s like a kid sister.”

      hehe, true. Would have been funny, though.

      Even the giant bugs are hitting on Taylor. Seriously, how was he that calm?

      Best case for me would have been screaming and shaking it off while running into the woods, but I probably would have just thrown myself into the fire, no time to strip down.

      If not for the panicking I would wrap it in my shirt, lose the shirt while keeping it trapped, jump on it a couple of times and then throw the whole thing into the fire.
      No idea what that was, but if there are more, we need to kill them all!

  • Black Dynamite

    Hannah Moment of the Week Part 2. Not the best episode for my fav. I like her going after Zeke but she badly misplayed the situation, especially the conversation with Zeke. Props for being aware about being the target. I still fear for her future in the game. As for the moment, let’s go with her calling Jay “Peruvian Ozzy.”

    • Purplerockmatt

      Hannah stared ten yards above zeke’s ahead there. it was hilarious

      • Black Dynamite

        I was screaming at my TV for her to just say that it was a fair statement. It wouldn’t even be a lie.

        • At least say, “Hmm, I hadn’t thought of him. But you may be right.”

        • andythesaint

          The simple answer would be who she began the episodes talking about: “Jay”. The question wasn’t who she would like to vote out; the question was “who is the most dangerous player right now”.

          • NearlyNina

            The funniest thing for me was that Zeke didnt even care at first. He was so focused on getting to his next argument that even after the whole staring incident she could’ve still gotten away with it if only she’d let him keep talking without continuing to be the shiftiest person ever.

      • Kent McK

        Yeah, there was no way Zeke wasn’t picking up on that. Hannah’s face screamed “I am so sorry for what I am about to do to you.”

        • Baulderstone

          She even went to him with the expectation of him telling him they were going after David. He was walking right into her trap. That should not have been hard.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I’m not the biggest Jay fan in the world, and I know Hannah didn’t mean it that way, but that was harsh, Hannah. Jay is waaaaayyyy less obnoxious than Ozzy.

      • I think he would take it as a compliment.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I believe he fancies himself the lovechild of Russell and Woo.

    • Hornacek

      At first I thought that Hannah was trying to fool Zeke and was being deliberately bad at trying to convince him she had turned on him.

  • So, fun story. My friend watched the BvW rock draw last night and then this happened. It was wonderful timing.

    • andythesaint

      Was she all “why do they call it the Purple Rock then?”

      • No, she has seen Marquesas and got it. Before watching BvW, she was convinced that there was only 1 rock draw and now in less than 24 hours, there are 3.

  • Kent McK

    So David and Adam teamed up to blow that one. What was Adam doing buying that they were voting for Ken? And David just impulsively reacted to that right? I am pretty sure that he was going to play his idol on Hannah until Adam spoke up, but then again he was already back to his seat, so maybe he was playing it for himself.

    • I think he was going to play it for himself, which is why we got Hannah thinking about asking for it herself.

      • Agreed. It was likely getting played for him, though I’d say there was a 25% chance it was going to Hannah.

      • the sky is falling

        Well at least it means David can find a new idol next week and break Russel Hantz and Tony’s record. plus, fantasy points

        • DrVanNostrand

          Will they hide a new idol. Do they want there to be 3 active idols in a game of 9 people. I know Survivor loves their idols, but that seems excessive.

          • the sky is falling

            Personally, I like the chaos that idols introduce to game, but you may be right, we already have 2 idols and 2 special rewards

          • Oh shit, I forgot about the legacy advantage again.

          • the sky is falling

            If the legacy advantage is, proceed to finale, do not pass go, good for Ken

          • DrVanNostrand

            They literally showed us the legacy advantage a half hour ago!

          • I know and I called it as the sign that Jessica was going home.

          • I called as a sign that Jessica was going home, and then immediately forgot about it and was surprised when they went to rocks.

          • andythesaint

            The ONE Time it became relevant!

    • DrVanNostrand

      I was going to be a little contrarian and say it might not have been quite so obvious in the moment, and Adam may have thought he cleverly overheard something. BUT. I just re-watched the scene. They said, “Stick to the plan”. Hannah asked, “What’s the plan?”. They said “Ken”. Sunday looked straight at Hannah, a player clearly in the other alliance and told her it was Ken. You’d have to be a fool to believe that, and Adam was the fool. I’m a little less harsh on David, because the way Adam worded it to him, he overheard them whispering. He didn’t tell David that Sunday just told Hannah they were voting for Ken.

      • the sky is falling

        I upvote this entire episode for resurrecting “Stick to the plan”

        • Rewatching Survivor, you will not realize how prevalent that phrase is.

          • the sky is falling

            noooo! That will always be Keith Nales phrase to own

      • Mike Hirsch

        I hope Bret starts calling Adam a Narc.

        • Other Scott

          I spent a lot of time this episode thinking…you know, Bret seems an awful lot like a cop

          • Hornacek

            I’m upset the “Hannah investigates whether Bret is a cop” story hasn’t continued.

      • Hornacek

        David probably thought that Adam had sneakily overheard the other alliance’s whispers and trusted that he had gotten good information that they did not want to get out.

      • 1. Yes, Adam probably shouldn’t have believed Sunday, and David probably shouldn’t have blindly gone with what Adam said.

        2. But man, when it came down to rocks I was happy David had played the idol for Ken.

  • Kingoftonga

    Jay has superb idol instincts (unless the show is building up to him getting voted off with an idol in his pocket). I can’t believe he made it through that first tribal without a vote.

    David’s idol instincts…not so great right now.

    Hannah’s idol instincts…surprisingly good. To quote Pynchon, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

    • Purplerockmatt

      Jay is playing a great game from the bottom right now

      • Alycia Swift

        But is it enough to get the win?

        • Black Dynamite

          Possibly. His stock is on the rise in my book.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yup, mine too.

        • He’s got three surefire jury members at this point with Chris, Michelle and Taylor and three probable ones with Will, Bret and Sunday.

          • Alycia Swift

            I’m not sure Chris is surefire. It depends on who else is there. If Bret was there, Chris votes for him. My guess is he might be the final 4 loser.

          • Good call. I am just assuming that Bret isn’t there. I also think that Chris will not vote for anyone who voted out Paul, which knocks out Ken and David.

          • Alycia Swift

            I’m not so sure about Chris not voting for one who voted out Paul.
            What’s funny is how many people have sworn revenge and it has hurt their game. Chris was out to get Jessica and it hurt him.

          • I could see him still being mad about it ala Vytas in BvW.

        • Kent McK

          If Jay makes it to the end he will win. He is in that Kelley Wentworth position where the jury is actively rooting for him.

          • DrVanNostrand

            I agree. Running down the list, I’d say he’s a lock if he makes it to the end.

      • Mike Hirsch

        It’s also a game that doesn’t necessarily require him to go on an immunity tear for at least a few votes, due to the BIG MOVES happening all around him. He may be able to sneak by a few votes until this David/Zeke war ends, and by that point, maybe he’s formed his own sub-alliance.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I feel like he still has to make a short immunity run. Most people left are probably smart enough to know that Jay would have a huge edge at FTC.

          • Mike Hirsch

            Yeah, he would definitely need to take at least the final 5 and 4 immunities (or play his idol there), but he should be safe for at least two more votes.

          • andythesaint

            That was probably always true for a player like Jay. Even the super dominant Rob and Kim needed to win out.

          • Other Scott

            I don’t think Kim needed to win out. I think her people were taking her because of *friendship*. That’s how amazing Kim was

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            That’s right. Kim actually lost one of the challenges in her late run, to Alecia. But she hypnotized Alecia into going after Tarzan. And in any event, even if Alecia had targeted Kim, she would have needed either Chelsea or Sabrina’s vote, which was not going to happen.

          • Other Scott

            Alicia wasn’t going after Kim though, she was going after Sabrina. Worst case for Kim there would be sh’ed flip to Alicia’s side to avoid rocks…and then she’d actually have to win out.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            OK, I stand corrected; except for checking out Christina I was pretty disengaged while watching the endgame of One World. However it happened, it’s still a testament to Kim’s social game that there was absolutely no effort to get rid of her when the opportunity arose.

          • andythesaint

            Maybe not Kim. But it was probably best that she didn’t leave the option.

      • Baulderstone

        He has at least earned a second season return at this point. It would be easy to just chalk up his survival to luck, but the fact that he has been cool-headed enough to hold his idol shows better situational awareness than he has been claiming to have at TC.

      • I don’t know how much credit I give Jay (definitely some), but the fact that his name didn’t come up at all in either half of this episode is pretty impressive.

      • He’s playing a good enough game that everyone has sort of forgotten how very badly he messed up the merge vote, which is impressive.

    • Sadie

      David’s instincts seem like they were Adam’s pushing lol. Don’t listen to ADAM!!

    • So today’s finally the day where we start Idol Instincts, a cover band of Baylor’s greatest hits

      • Black Dynamite

        Who?

      • Hornacek

        Feels like I stepped in gum …

    • Kemper Boyd

      He voted Jessica there. I’m convinced Sunday told him. Because if he’s just throwing a vote out thinking he could be the target is he voting for Jessica? hell no.

      • NearlyNina

        I think there’s a very good possibility that Sunday told Jay, however there was enough at that Tribal for him to have picked up that she at least was one of the targets.

  • Alycia Swift

    Are they going to put the idol back or is it too late to put one back?

    • sharculese

      They probably won’t, but it would awesome if they do.

      • Alycia Swift

        It would be hilarious if David found a third – whether you like him or not.

        • the sky is falling

          He would tie the record, (im a stats guy)

          • Alycia Swift

            That’s cool. I’m just looking for the humor. I hope he at least looks. Only 4 people know how to find them (Adam, Will, Jay and David).

          • the sky is falling

            It’s weird that Russel only found 3, In my memory he found and played one every week. same with Tony

      • I think the fact that David is in danger maybe increases the odds of one going back into the game.

        • andythesaint

          Love the cynicism.

    • They’re at final 9. That’s still fair game for an idol.

    • Max_Jets

      I’m guessing they’ll just stick with two. I believe there have only been 3 idols when 3 tribes have been in the game (other than the Tyler Perry idol), but I could be wrong.

  • Mike Hirsch

    Will looked like he was seriously going to pass out when Jeff scolded them and announced they were going to rocks.

    Hannah is absolutely terrible at being a double-agent. I can see going to one of those Murder Mystery Dinner Party things with Hannah and her confessing immediately due to the stress. Which would be memorable and a great story, so it’s a compliment, should she happen to come across this comment.

    • Other Scott

      If Will really didn’t want to go to rocks…he could have, you know, flipped?

      • Mike Hirsch

        Yeah, also it seemed like, with the overall fluidity of the alliances so far, and Zeke showing as a clear strategic/social threat, why they wouldn’t have all agreed to Zeke at that point seems like a mistake. Like, sure, if you want to go to rocks because that’s awesome and you want to be badass, by all means go. But Zeke vs Hannah deadlocked? Just seems a great time to push out Zeke.

        • Other Scott

          I mean, Jay is immune and doesn’t want to bring attention to himself. But Zeke’s voting block was basically the old Ikabula tribe, and I can understand why they thought they’d be in trouble in the minority if one of them flipped.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Agreed. Hannah wasn’t the target as a threat, she was a target because Zeke couldn’t trust her. Why should the rest of them care that Zeke doesn’t trust Hannah?

          • Mike Hirsch

            Exactly. Although Will, Bret and Sunday have been little more than puppets for their respective alliances all season, so it stands to reason they wouldn’t quite be able to view the forest for the trees here.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            The problem is that it was a 10-person tribal, and deadlocked at 4-4, so achieving a unanimous vote would require switching your own vote and convincing three other people to switch. As opposed to BvW, where if Katie didn’t want to go to rocks all she had to do was convince Ciera to switch (bad example, but the point is that at 6 you only need to flip one other vote). And if you try and fail, you probably torpedo your own game. On top of which, in a 2-2 deadlock you probably know who’s vote you have to flip, but in a 4-4 deadlock probably not.

  • Black Dynamite

    What are people’s thoughts on Zeke going after Hannah on this vote? I’m torn on whether it was the right or wrong move in this situation.

    • Alycia Swift

      Me 2. Hannah was not going to win. Going after someone else might have been a better idea.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I think if they went after Jessica they might have gotten Adam to flip

      • Alycia Swift

        I’m curious to see Jessica’s Ponderosa tomorrow. I want to see how she is greeted by Chris.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I think you want to go after the person on the opposing alliance who is least likely to have an idol played for them. Hannah might be an OK guess for that. He already played one for Jessica, and Ken is his main bro. David probably wouldn’t play one for Adam, but do people know Adam has an idol?

      • Alycia Swift

        People do not know Adam has an idol. The one smart move he has made

      • I think at this point Adam forgot he had an idol.

    • I get where he is coming from, but Hannah isn’t that close to him. If you are going after David without going after David, go after either Jessica or Ken.

      • Alycia Swift

        going after Adam might have worked because Adam would not have suspected it.

        • That as well because he was finally not so nervous. It also takes out one of the swing votes that is just there. By the way, there are three swing votes still in play because I feel that Jay/Adam/Will will float wherever they want.

          • Alycia Swift

            Yes, right now it seems like the alliances or voting blocks or trust clusters or whatever you want to call them is:
            Ken/David and now Hannah
            Zeke/Sunday/Bret
            With Jay, Will and Adam as stragglers since none are aligned with each other
            By the way, what day did they end on?

          • 30?

          • the sky is falling

            Do not encourage trust clusters, worse than voting blocs

          • Prom King

            I really felt Bret’s annoyance at “trust clusters” at second tribal.

            But I did love that Hannah-Probst moment at first tribal, and I usually never love Probst moments.

          • Hornacek

            Poor Hannah, she made up a Survivor term on the spot, Jeff liked it and used it, she was happy for 3 days about it, and then Bret says it’s ridiculous at the next tribal. Probably her lowest moment.

          • Alycia Swift

            But since Probst outranks Bret and we are using it, she wins.

          • I have no problem with trust clusters. The term is a little strange, but we needed a term for a permanent voting bloc/mini-alliance within a larger voting bloc.

          • Hornacek

            When I think of a type of “cluster” I think “cancer cluster” which is not a good term to use when describing people in Survivor.

      • Black Dynamite

        I’m leaning towards it being the wrong play. I would go after someone who doesn’t have a relationship with me. Hannah could’ve been back with him if he played his cards right. Now I think they’re done. Adam and him too.

        • the sky is falling

          Going after David was the wrong play this early, he is not a threat

      • Prom King

        But I think he thought he was close to her, and to Adam. His little side alliance from the start.

      • I think Zeke thinks of Hannah as more of a strategic threat than Jessica or Ken. I’m not saying that’s definitely right, but based on Zeke’s information, it’s not entirely wrong. Then again, part of it is definitely emotional (which I find a little odd, since I see Zeke as betraying Hannah more than Hannah betraying Zeke).

    • It was an emotional (and also vindictive) move. I’m leaving towards wrong move, because Hannah is a player I’m confident he could have won back once David was removed if he played it cool.

      • Oh yeah, he could have explained his reasoning and Hannah seems to be a bit more chilled now to accept it.

      • Kingoftonga

        Hannah is also super transparent and easy to read. It’s not like you won’t know what she’s planning if you keep her around.

      • Alycia Swift

        Agreed.

    • MrBurkesButtons

      If you’re Zeke and you suspect the vote is 5-5, then Hannah’s the perfect target.

      Ken, Jess and David won’t flip on each other. You hope to flip Adam or Jess on the revote, but if not, you’re safe (thanks to the tie) and suddenly have a statistically better chance of eliminating David, Ken or Jess.

      If David gives Hannah his idol, your side’s still happy-ish, since they’ve burned the most dangerous idol without risking their own necks.

    • andythesaint

      It was an emotional decision that he disguised as a strategic one. It was good to not go after David, but it would’ve been easier to go for Ken or Jessica.

      That said, I’m not sure there was a sixth vote he could’ve gotten. So, no big deal.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I think the rock gave him the result he should have gone for in the first place. Ken and Jess will not flip back. If David goes next then Hannah is rudderless and she isn’t a leader, she will not rally a vote against him. In fact she may come back to him.

    • tocantins

      Maybe a good reason to go after Hannah is Adam? When Hannah moved against him, she took Adam with her, because she is his best connection. But Adam really is not that close to anyone else in their alliance, so removing her would make Adam go back to Zeke, and add a vote to him. (I am not at all sure he considered this when choosing to vote for her, though.)

  • gouis

    OK we’re getting there. So who’s winning?

    I kind of say David.

    • I think we now have three main contenders since Chris is gone. They are David, Jay, and Zeke. I actually think we may see a Jay win, but I wouldn’t be shocked with David or Zeke. Your dark horses are Ken and Hannah at this point.

      • gouis

        Hannah has a better shot than Ken at this point.

        • For me, they are on equal footing. I think Hannah has developed better reads for the game now though.

        • the sky is falling

          Still feel like Hannah is getting Aubrey 2.0

          • I think Aubry was seen in confessionals as more of a mastermind.

          • the sky is falling

            Hannah is a goat, goats never win

          • turgid_legume

            More like Tai 2.0

        • DrVanNostrand

          No way.

        • Kent McK

          So I think your opinion on that may come down to how you viewed Hannah’s confessional about Ken tonight. I took that as being about how great Ken is, but I could see how someone would think it was Hannah winner material.

          • Black Dynamite

            I saw it as these two could be connected down the stretch. I think that’s more true after tonight’s events. Ken has lost Jessica and Hannah is done with Zeke.

          • This may be the best showmance of all time…and not just because I have them on my Champions League team.

          • the sky is falling

            Hannah would be a bad winner, she’s been a mess the whole game

          • Kent McK

            I wouldn’t be psyched if Hannah won, and she is a total long shot, but I just think that she has had enough positive material that she isn’t drawing dead.

          • Alycia Swift

            I am sort of curious how he felt when he heard about Hannah’s crush while watching this tonight.

          • Black Dynamite

            I’m going to guess he knew before tonight. Hannah is not the most subtle.

          • I have a feeling Ken has tons of experience with people having crushes on him.

          • turgid_legume

            Ken has had to give the “no, that barista won’t be your new mommy” speech to his daughter so many times he’s got it down to an art.

          • Prom King

            I’m sure he would have given her a very warm and brotherly pat on the head if he were watching that part with her. Followed by some soulful but platonic eye contact.

      • Black Dynamite

        I agree with this statement.

      • Purplerockmatt

        Agreed. Bret has been getting more time recently too, so i could almost see him as another dark horse

        • But I wonder if his recent edit is building up to a boot.

          • Purplerockmatt

            probably, but he has been getting a lot of time since the swap, which is a lot of episodes in a row now

          • Hmm…you are right. He is getting a lot of drunk time. But, I see him as only a pawn.

          • Purplerockmatt

            he is talking a lot about his game and his alliances. he is a player

          • gouis

            Stop trying to make Bret happen!

          • Dude, he wants to work under someone (phrasing), but not be the main person. He’s a pawn.

          • Purplerockmatt

            he is a knight, he isn’t being dictated too, he is being wooed

          • Really? He’s being wooed. I am pretty sure he was wooing Zeke. “You’re gay, I’m gay. Let’s rainbow connection this game up with you winning and me not winning.”

          • Purplerockmatt

            everybody Woo!

          • He wishes he was getting Woo-ed.

          • I was saying Woo-urns.

          • Hornacek

            So you’re saying he is a bottom and not a top?

          • I’m not going there.

          • Hornacek

            Probably for the best.

          • I was almost convinced Bret was drawing the black rock after his sudden upswing in screen time.

          • Alycia Swift

            I was hoping.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Same.

        • Other Scott

          I was super impressed with Bret this episode! Until Tribal Council anyways.

    • the sky is falling

      Many here seem to have a poor opinion of David, but it feel like he is playing a strong game. As some have said, combination of both Cochrane runs

      • Purplerockmatt

        Oh i definitely don’t have a poor opinion of David, I think David is playing a strong game, he made a bad read tonight with Bret, but he got blinded because he had a chance to take out two of his main threats in Chris adn Zeke

        • Alycia Swift

          He made a bad read twice. Once with trusting Bret and Sunday (it was the third time he turned against them) and once with believing Adam when Hannah read it right. Also, why not reach out to Jay or Will instead of Bret and Sunday?
          It does show he is not playing the strongest game – Zeke is. But they are close and may cause each other’s downfall.

          • Purplerockmatt

            he may have reached out to Jay and Will and we weren’t shown it because they turned him down flat

        • Sadie

          Eyes=bigger than his stomach

      • Prom King

        I have a very positive opinion of David, he’s one of my favorites. Several weaknesses but a lot more strengths, and very endearing. I think Ken will win.

    • Kingoftonga

      I’m pretty convinced it’s David, especially if he gets to the end with some combination of Ken, Adam, and Hannah. I don’t think this jury will be especially predisposed to vote for David, though, and a Zeke or Jay or even Bret could mess things up for him.

    • Purplerockmatt

      I’ve been convinced for a while it is David. Story of the season just seems to be the story of David

      • gouis

        At this point it almost feels too obvious. Like Jeremy or Tony or something.

        • the sky is falling

          Agreed, like I never believed Tony would win for that reason alone

          • Hornacek

            You weren’t alone. Some people said he had a 0% chance of winning.

        • Purplerockmatt

          I really see it as very similar to Tony, and people’s inability to believe is similar to Tony too

          • gouis

            100%

          • DrVanNostrand

            After resisting Tony (“No one would ever take such an obvious threat to the end!”) and Mike (“No one could win so many immunities in a row!”), I’m beginning to just believe what the editors are showing me.

      • the sky is falling

        Yeah, they are leaning hard into the most improved person arc

      • Kent McK

        Until tonight I had assumed that if David made the end then he would win, but now I am thinking that he could actually lose to Ken. I don’t think Zeke’s crew will vote for David. We are hearing people say bad things about David, and all we are hearing about Ken is how dreamy he is, plus the editors are really hammering home how loyal Ken is. I hope it is David that wins, but I fear it is Ken. I am fearful that David is getting kind of like a Tai edit, not as bad, but I think people kind of look down on him for his awkwardness and paranoia and they might not be able to stomach losing to him.

        • Sadie

          They seem to be afraid of him though? So that’s not all terrible

      • DrVanNostrand

        After the first episode tonight, I was all aboard the OWD train. That was an absurdly positive edit for a guy who has been getting great edit all season. He definitely lost the battle in the second episode, but war is still anyone’s to win. OK, not Will, Bret, Sunday, or Adam, but any of the other 5.

        • Alycia Swift

          I’d add Hannah to the “not” list as much as I don’t want to.

          • I think she’s on the border of “yeah” and “not”.

          • DrVanNostrand

            Of the five that I haven’t completely ruled out, I consider her by far the least likely.

          • andythesaint

            For me, it’s just hard to imagine a jury coming away from a FTC judging Hannah and thinking “she sure convinced me”!

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            If the war destroys all the combatants and we get an F3 of bystanders Hannah, Sunday, and Will, I think Hannah could win.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Sunday is neat lady. She’s have Chris and Bret. Will would get Jay, Michelle and Taylor then it’s down to David, Ken, Jess, Adam and Zeke to decide it.

          • Alycia Swift

            Hannah would get Adam, David and Ken. Jess? Zeke?

          • andythesaint

            That’s not happening.

          • Hornacek

            But that same jury could also say “But those other two people with Hannah – ugh.”

          • andythesaint

            This doesn’t feel like that kind of season.

          • Hornacek

            (keeps fingers crossed)

          • Alycia Swift

            But the ugh would likely have to be Will and Adam and maybe Sunday.

          • People love Hannah! I mean, I love Hannah, and I am people.

          • sharculese

            All of us watching Australian Survivor said that about Kristie, though.

          • andythesaint

            I don’t think what happens there will translate to how our show does things.

          • sharculese

            Yeah, I say that tongue in cheek. Kristie was a weird one-off who was awkward and inarticulate the entire game and then just bossed it out FTC. I don’t think it was a culture thing so much as a once-in-a-million thing. Hannah’s not gonna repeat it.

      • I was getting worried about David tonight, since he seemed to be getting the exact same story that Stephen got in last year’s Thanksgiving episode. He was being shown really sympathetically and definitely taking power in the game, so I was kind of expecting him to go out in a blaze of… something in the second half.

    • Kent McK

      I think it is either David or Ken. I would say that Jay, Hannah, and Zeke all still have a shot though. Adam seems like a losing finalist.

      • Alycia Swift

        I’m still thinking Ken. David may have burned too many people. And some are starting to see through him. But only for fantasy league purposes, I hope its David.

        • the sky is falling

          Someone else posted that David has a master plan, I feel like it’s not a scam, he is just truly uncomfortable around people

          • Alycia Swift

            I think he was truly uncomfortable … but there are aspects to this that seem forced. and he was called on it at tribal.

      • jersey_luck

        I feel confident in saying that Will is a easily zero vote finalist

    • the sky is falling

      New blog post, earliest obvious winner?

      • I will steal Andy’s answer and say Rob.

        • Purplerockmatt

          oh yeah that was like 2nd episode

          • the sky is falling

            I dunno, maybe it’s Richard Hatch

          • sharculese

            No. Rich’s win was shocking and controversial. I didn’t even watch Borneo when it aired and I still remember that.

          • the sky is falling

            Yeah, I guess it’s only in hindsight that it was a lock

          • MsFjordstone

            I’m the only person I know who tagged Hatch as the winner on day one.

          • gouis

            0%

          • Once r.obbed g.oddess Francesqua was gone, the writing was on the wall.

        • Black Dynamite

          Beat me to it. I agree

      • gouis

        Don’t ask me, I don’t work here! I just hang out all day and annoy the actual employees.

      • Black Dynamite

        This inspired me to do a ranking. These are the the top 10 earliest obvious winners that I noticed while watching the season.

        1. Boston Rob
        2. Kim
        3. Mike
        4. Yul
        5. JT
        6. Jeremy
        7. Earl
        8. Tom
        9. Tyson
        10. Natalie A.

        • I didn’t really notice Natalie until the Stick to the Plan TC.

          • Black Dynamite

            That was still relatively early.

        • DrVanNostrand

          I know a lot of people want to pretend he doesn’t exist, and that his season doesn’t exist, but I’m going to put Brian somewhere in the top 10.

          • Black Dynamite

            Oh I guess I should add that there are seasons I didn’t add on the list because I already knew who won before I watched it. Those seasons are Australian Outback, Africa, Thailand, All Stars, Gabon, and Nicaragua (still haven’t watched).

          • DrVanNostrand

            Fair enough. I didn’t know before I watched it, but it seemed really obvious to me shortly after the merge. As far as early seasons go, it was the most obvious by a wide margin to me.

          • Prom King

            He’s in my top ten of most accomplished winners for sure. But he was so obviously smarmy and manipulative that he didn’t seem like an obvious winner to me. But then I thought the same of Richard Hatch so what do I know!

        • the sky is falling

          I guess I will forgive leaving Tony off the list, he played such a crazy game I was rooting for him the whole time

          • I didn’t even notice Tony was left off of the list. But yes, he’s another.

          • Tony didn’t really seem like a winner for much of Cagayan (at least to me), but in retrospect, it’s pretty clear that he was being shown as a winner for almost the entire post-merge.

          • Yeah, we were way ahead of the curve on calling him out as the winner. Mostly because there hadn’t really been a winner like him before.

          • Black Dynamite

            Cagayan was the second season I ever watched. I didn’t have as good of an idea of how Survivor storytelling went with who would win a season.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Mine too! Well, sort of, because I caught up on multiple seasons during the airing of S28, which unfortunately really tainted the Cagayan experience for me.
            Australian Outback was my first a few years earlier.

          • Prom King

            He was featured super heavily, which was gold for me because he’s a favorite. But it’s also why I really wasn’t sure if he was winning.

        • Tom had Ian challenging him for most of the game. I’d replace him with Cochran.

          • Max_Jets

            I think Cochran is up in the top 3.

          • Black Dynamite

            For some reason I was incredibly sure Tom was winning the game early on. I thought Palau did a good job of showing Tom’s strengths and Ian’s cracks throughout the game. Also, Barbara Anderson needs to watch Palau already.

          • Hornacek

            Just get in the back seat and let me drive.

          • Purplerockmatt

            oh Cochran is a good one, that one was super obvious really early on

          • Alycia Swift

            I’d argue that Yul had Ozzy challenging him so he was not obvious (since wasn’t it a 5-4 vote?).

          • NearlyNina

            I watched this season after it aired (but hadn’t been spoiled), so maybe my perspective is different, but was Ian ever actually considered a threat to win? Watching it he was a pretty obvious pawn that could have done something, but mostly didn’t ever because Tom was there to do it instead.

        • sharculese

          I’m not sure I’d have Natalie A on there. There was a lot of panic late in the game about how great it would be if Natalie won, but she was fucking things up for herself by voting out Alec.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Natalie A was not nailed on until like the 3rd to last episode and you could still see how it could go wrong (Keith, Jon etc)

        • corndogshuffle

          I feel like there should be room for Todd on this list.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Todd was at most a step or two ahead of Amanda going into FTC.

          • corndogshuffle

            I had him pegged as the winner almost immediately in that season, maybe that makes me feel like it was more obvious than it was. That was one of the first seasons I watched.

          • NearlyNina

            Yeah, Todd seemed really obvious to me as well. You can argue that Amanda had just as much as a role etc, but based on editing all the moves were being attributed to Todd.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            It’s possible that expectations affected my perception too. I came to China relatively late, with the big events of the season spoiled. So I was pleasantly surprised by the strength of Amanda’s game (until FTC, of course). When I start rewatching seasons, China (or possibly Philippines) will be the first.

          • sharculese

            I watched China already knowing who won, but the 3rd (yes, 3rd time) I watched China I was shocked how many small moves from Todd to make good with people they were showing us.

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            Yeah, I made a mental note to watch for that when you mentioned it earlier. It sounds like a much more subtle version of what happened in Tocantins (superficially a partnership of near-equals, but only one is collecting jury votes), but with Amanda/Todd more of a frenemies relationship than Stephen/JT.

        • Kemper Boyd

          Kim and BR are tied for 1 right? Then everyone is in a lower tier.

          • Black Dynamite

            Pretty much. There’s a big dropoff after those two.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          It’s interesting to me that of those 10, only Mike and Natalie were lone wolves; 7 or 8 were in ride-or-die partnerships (note: I haven’t seen Fiji). And yet, with the possible exception of JT and (maybe, kinda sorta Tom), none was in any danger whatsoever of being beaten out by their partner.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Top 10 second-in-commands who really, really should have attempted a coup:

          1. Becky
          2. Chelsea
          3. Sabrina (Kim was so awesome she had two second in commands)
          4. Stephen (Tocantins)
          5. Amber
          6. Gervase
          7. Ian
          8. Malcolm (Philippines)
          9. Heidi
          10. Nat Ten (haha J/K as if)

          • Black Dynamite

            I like the list idea. I’m not sure I would describe Malcolm or Heidi as “second in commands” though. I saw Malcolm and Denise as co leaders and Heidi as the leader of that duo.

    • Kemper Boyd

      David or Jay for me at this point.

    • Maritimer

      I’ve felt like its Jay for a couple weeks now, and tonight made me more confident in that prediction

      • Sadie

        I kind of feel like Jay is in a good spot because he has an idol and can win when he needs to…

    • Crappy

      I am gonna call my shot.. it is gonna be Hannah…

  • jersey_luck

    So now that Jessica is out of game how to feel about her as a player? Because remember she was supposed to be blindsided way back on the Gen X tribe. And now there was the act that she was deciding force when they went to rocks.

    • gouis

      Invisible.

      • Alkanarra

        For a good reason though. If you’re the show, you can’t hype up a player who loses on a 5-5 rock draw.

        • Alycia Swift

          If it had been Zeke or Bret or David, the hype would have been there.

          • Prom King

            I think it would have been a lot more muted. Hyping up a great players who leave due to rocks is making the show appear unfairly random, which is not a good look for a show depending on loyal viewers.

    • Black Dynamite

      She didn’t seem too aware of what was going on in the game a lot of times.

    • Baulderstone

      She got a reprieve from being destroyed by her own bad decisions by David early on, then she got destroyed by David’s stupid decision to open up to Bret and Sundae (And Hannah’s inability to just say “Yes, Zeke. David is very dangerous!”). It’s kind of a restoration of the cosmic balance.

      I am sad to see her go though.

    • Alycia Swift

      She was very good in challenges involving strength/balance. She showed some potential (she told Ken what to say to Adam) but at other times made bad moves. But because of her personality, she was not touted much when she made moves, bad or good. Adam has made bad moves constantly but because of his mom’s story and his “yelling” and being a superfan and male, he is constantly in the forefront. Ditto for David, Zeke and other guys.

      • jersey_luck

        I will say Jessica played a game that leaps and bounds better than what whatever Adam is doing right now

        • Well, everyone posting here is playing better than Adam, and none of us are even on the TV show.

    • I feel bad for her because she has a compelling, expressive face, which was put to great effect after the vote. The flipside of this is: if that’s why I feel bad for her, rather than this random injustice in the face of strong gameplay, then there was probably no strong gameplay to begin with. So… ¯_(ツ)_/¯

      • She will be a great juror!

      • the sky is falling

        Also, Jessica was getting survivor hot. She may give the best tribal council faces since Eliza, so there was s that to look forward to

        • Purplerockmatt

          Man I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but totally agree

          • Assistant Dragon Slayer

            And here I thought I was the only one thinking that.

        • Black Dynamite

          Co sign on her getting Survivor hot. That women is strong too.

        • Kemper Boyd

          good to know we are all on the same page. I think the blade of grass in the mouth during challenges helped too.

    • These Words

      Good on paper: trial attorney, smart, seems level headed, avid student of the game (but every new contestant seems to be at this point). In practice, she seemed clueless of what was going on around her 99% of the time. Ken looked her in the face and told her she was going to be voted out and that wasn’t enough. David practically had to tie the idol around her neck when he saved her awhile back.

      • Alycia Swift

        You could argue that the first and second sentence also described Chris.

    • Kemper Boyd

      She was a nothing, Seems like a nice lady. Not a neat lady. A genuine nice lady.

  • gouis

    Also is that 5 episodes in a row without a Ken confessional? You’re killing us CBS

    • Ken got a confessional about not ever writing down David’s name in the second episode.

      • gouis

        So he gets one in 5 episodes, and it’s about David!

        • Alycia Swift

          He did get a lot of attention though – not as much as the biggies – Bret, Zeke, David and Jay. It was all positive though. And we got to see one side of his chest flexing.

          • Purplerockmatt

            he gets a lot of positive secondary attention even when he doesn’t get confessionals

          • Also, he got a lot of good attention in the pre-merge.

          • Purplerockmatt

            oh his pre-merge edit was good enough to win, that is why his disappearance is shocking

          • gouis

            Yeah he still has a “positive edit” but just no real screen time. Takes away any chance he can win.

          • Okay, let me get my amateur edgic hat on. We now have three or four people who got very little attention in the pre-merge as part of the final 9 (Will, Bret, Hannah, and Sunday). I wonder if we are getting so much of at least three of them because they are going home extremely soon.

          • gouis

            Yes

          • Black Dynamite

            I would say Hannah got a bit more attention than the other three but maybe that’s just me with my Hannah blinders on.

          • Hannah has definitely had a moment every episode, but the other three were invisible. However, Will still manages to be UTR.

          • sharculese

            off topic: I always read “UTR” as “UTI.”

          • Alycia Swift

            I think that some of the lack of attention is that he does not give good confessionals usually (like Michelle from last season) and the war is between David, Zeke and to some extent Jay, Hannah and Adam with Bret getting more involved. The “masterminds” are trying to knock each other out first.

          • DrVanNostrand

            That one pec was strangely integral to his coconut prep work.

        • andythesaint

          I can’t decide yet if it’s because David is the winner or if it’s because the story of David’s fall will be more interesting than the story of Ken’s win because David is a lot more interesting.

    • Abs made another appearance though (shout-out to successfully trained ants).

    • Kingoftonga

      If you stare at Ken’s eyes first thing in the morning, he’ll give you a confessional, but any other time it’s too dangerous and you’ll go blind.

    • DrVanNostrand

      As I said last week, he’s better seen than heard.

      • gouis

        I could listen to Ken talk about sunrises all day

  • Next episode: the former Ikabula tribe reveals they have secretly been allied all along, and reunite to run the game now that they have the majority. Michaela’s master plan is all coming together.

    • Baulderstone

      Hannah’s plan to get David to use immunity idol, with Adam throwing in an assist to toss it the wrong direction was flawless!

    • andythesaint

      You know guys, I was THIS close to conceding being wrong about the Michaela vote, but now I’m not so sure.

  • the sky is falling

    Early season ranking, top 15 at least. annoying premise, but entertaining tribal councils

    • It’s at least a mid-tier season. The gameplay has been all over the place, but at least there has been gameplay.

      • the sky is falling

        Yeah, after 30 seasons, I’d say this one squeaks into top half at this point

      • Max_Jets

        It’s reminding me a lot of Cambodia, with the large merge leading to a crazier post merge. I think this season has been much better at laying out the social dynamics of the players involved which is improving the post merge, but it had a weaker pre-merge and of course some obnoxious theme related content.

        • Black Dynamite

          I like the comparison and agree with all the points.

          • Now that my shift under the bridge is down, I will say that we at least know what the relationships are in contrast to Cambodia where all of a sudden, Wentworth was on the bottom after the Kass vote. At least we knew that the two Gen X alliances were not as tight as previously thought.

        • Reminder to myself to drop Cambodia even lower. Thanks!

        • Kingoftonga

          Yeah, the post-merge this season has been great. A combination of a cast that’s willing to play and the 2-to-3 tribe swap that led to a lot of interesting pairings and really prevented any huge alliances from running the game.

        • Cambodia’s post-merge got crazier earlier than MvGX, but then it kind of lost steam by the end (save for the final 6 tribal). I still love Cambodia, but the game seems to be blowing up a week or two later this season, which I’m hoping will lead to a more exciting finish.

      • Kemper Boyd

        There was game play in Gabon…

        • Alycia Swift

          Yes but so many Gabon players were outright unlikeable.

    • Alycia Swift

      I’d find it mid-tier. There is no absolute nasty villain (like on Worlds Apart which had three at least). There’s no one you love to hate. I never love to hate so I’m fine with that. The worst of the villain was Taylor for stealing food.
      There are people who know strategy but sometimes make bad moves but at least they are trying instead of just sitting back. Some of the challenges are great.

      • Baulderstone

        Even the food stealing never really paid off in affecting the game. It made for an entertaining tribal council, but he was already on the way home anyway. It didn’t change any votes.

      • sharculese

        My problem with this season is that, while I see from week-to-week why someone is going home, there’s never a good explanation as to who is choosing who’s going home. It’s better than Nicaragua, but it’s Nicaragua-esque in that regard.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I’m with you Sharcy. It’s fine right now, if an overarching winner’s story doesn’t appear (I’m not saying an edit but a clear reasoning on why from early enough) then it’ll get knocked down.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I’ve said this before, but this cast is to an unusual degree clustered on the bell curve. Nobody’s a historically great player, but by the same token nobody is straight up wasting oxygen. Evenly matched players make for a chaotic game. The difference between this season and other chaotic seasons like Nicaragua and Gabon is that they’re not clustering around shitty.

        • Other Scott

          And also Cambodia-esque?

          *hides under Barbara Anderson’s bridge*

    • Kent McK

      The cast is so good that I don’t really care about how dumb the theme is. This is easily my second favorite season since I started watching the show weekly again like four years ago. Cagayan is better, but I like this more than Second Chances, which I previously would of said was the 2nd best.

    • Prom King

      I like this season a lot, so many great characters and fun gameplay. It’s about at the bottom of my top half.

    • Mike Hirsch

      I’m enjoying the season far more than I thought I would. It’s well-cast, and while people keep making very questionable gameplay decisions, it’s making for an entertaining season with some dynamite tribal councils. Boy, did they get lucky, because the theme is still terrible. Right now I’d rank it at or near the bottom of the upper third for seasons.

      • Kemper Boyd

        They got lucky and almost all the duds went pre-merge.

        • I would say if you replaced Taylor with michaela, then you would have a stellar post merge crew.

          • Maritimer

            Agreed. I feel like even the underedited players – Will, Sunday – are strong and would be bigger characters on a different season

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I think this is key. On the one hand, I don’t think anybody is in the upper tier of Survivor players. On the other hand, nobody’s a dead fish. This clustering of players in the good-to-very-good range is making for a very exciting season.

    • I really like the cast, and there’s been a lot of exciting gameplay, but I still feel like there’s something missing. This will definitely be a top-half season for me, although I think I should be liking it more than I am.

    • gouis

      I’m holding to my top 1/3rd prediction.

    • Crappy

      Its been a good season IMO. The overall ranking would depend on the home stretch and the winner. I agreed with KIAs that it has been refreshing to have a season with very little nastiness. Even Koh Rong had some rough stuff in patches, less said about WA the better.
      I do agree that a great villain can elevate a season even more but I think is also a good variation on a survivor season. This season is a cousin of Cambodia’s in that sense, a lot of players playing really hard and very fluid in terms of alliances/blocs. Whilst it is not at Cambodia level yet for me, it does has a more varied characters’ list than Cambodia.

  • Stupid question time: How does fantasy league points work in the case of rock draws?

    • Black Dynamite

      I would imagine no one would get points.

      • I can get down with that.

      • It’s either no one or everyone, I’d say. Including Hannah, Zeke, and Jessica.

        • Yeah, that’s a rough one. I guess none of else were expecting a rock draw (Good job, CBS!).

        • andythesaint

          No one would make the most sense. Even if we did it the other way for BvW (don’t remember what we did). No one voted anyone out. No one gets a VTEP.

    • the sky is falling

      In case of rock draw David gets 20 points

      • Alycia Swift

        I’d be down with that.

  • prettyboyprobst

    Lots of whispering during that 2nd tribal council, even between and during the voting. Did Hannah take a clue from Michelle here in recognizing that it can’t hurt to try to secure a vote, even without good arguments and at a unusually late stage? Probably not enough to make up for her blunder while talking with Zeke, but certainly one of her better moves.

    And what’s up with first Zeke and then ‘the game’ blindsiding us by going after another woman?
    Paul at least would have told us if they were doing a boys thing, smh.

    • the sky is falling

      Aww, cmon, they clearly werent targeting a woman in particular. even though they have given us very few clues as to why Jessica was hated

      • Baulderstone

        Chris specifically mentioned they were getting revenge for Paul. Remember him? I barely do.

        • Alycia Swift

          These are people that are supposed to know the game. How often has trying to get revenge actually worked? I can only recall Natalie Anderson being successful at it.

          • Baulderstone

            Hey, I didn’t say it was a good motive. Just that they stated it.

          • Chris from Vanuatu.

          • Alycia Swift

            Who did Chris want revenge for?

          • When he voted out Sarge, he said that he wanted to burn them all, referring to the women.

          • Black Dynamite

            He sure got his revenge by standing around waiting for someone else to come up with a plan. They never knew what hit them.

          • Hornacek

            He knew when to make moves, when to win immunity, and when to sit back and let the universe work things out in his favor.

            Chris Daughtery, Holistic Survivor Player

          • Did Andy hack into your Disqus account?

          • Black Dynamite

            No, I actually think that about Chris. Only worry about a hack if I start talking some crazy shit like how Micronesia is actually an overrated season.

          • andythesaint

            What kind of blowhard asshole would do such a thing?

          • I think Andy is a Micronesia troll in the same way that I am a Cambodia troll.

          • Black Dynamite

            I don’t really have a troll season. I tend to like seasons that are already well received and dislike seasons others do. I kinda wish I had a season I can be the contrarian on.

          • It’s fun.

          • andythesaint

            This actually does sound like something I’d say in the exact way I would say it. So… brilliant take BD!

        • Kemper Boyd

          But it doesn’t make sense he’s getting revenge for Paul but has Sunday in his core 3!

          • Baulderstone

            Sunday didn’t vote for Paul. I’m not sure what you are saying.

            Also, it’s worth mentioning that elimination Jessica isn’t really Chris’s idea. He is just listening to Sunday’s advice.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Yes she did. Cece, Ken, David, Sunday, Rachel and Jessica voted for Paul. Sunday was in on the decision with the other 2 women to do it. That is why this is an annoying grudge for him to hold.

          • Baulderstone

            Hey, you are right. She did.

            Well, my second point still holds up. I didn’t get the impression that Chris was carrying around a big chip on his shoulder about it. If Sunday hadn’t been keeping up her campaign to eliminate Jessica over the last couple of episodes, I am not sure it would have entered his mind.

            That’s part of why I don’t really see anything sexist in Jessica being targeted. It’s happening because Sunday’s alliance is listening to her, as opposed to the way Jay and Taylor were completely uninterested in Michelle’s solid advice.

            Sadly, Sunday’s advice is not exactly as solid as Michelle’s.

          • HBO CEO of Tits

            Not Rachel, Lucy, but otherwise correct.

          • Kemper Boyd

            Well that shows the level of impact both of them made this season.

          • Alycia Swift

            Sunday did vote for Paul. All the women did.

          • Baulderstone

            Yep. Kemper already put me in my place on that. As penance, I will be doing a remedial viewing of episode three.

          • DrVanNostrand

            That’s because Sunday and Lucy somehow convinced the guys that the Paul vote was all Jessica’s fault, way back in the Lucy boot episode.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          I actually paused my DVR at that point and asked myself “wait, who the hell is Paulie?”

      • Hornacek

        Jessica was hated because Sunday knew that they were arch-enemies. Even though in Jessica’s mind her arch-enemy was Chris, not Sunday.

        • Alycia Swift

          And that was because Chris was indeed holding a grudge. Jessica should have been but we have seen no indication that she did.

          • Hornacek

            I really wanted a confessional where Jessica said “Sunday is my best friend out here.”

    • Baulderstone

      I don’t know. They went after Hannah only because she made it clear she was jumping alliances. I think she was an overly emotional pick for Zeke to make, but it was clearly a game related choice. If anything, Zeke made the rash decision to target her because he had valued her as an ally in the game and was stung by betrayal, not because he thought she was disposable.

      The rocks deciding to target Jessica was pure misogyny though. Fucking rocks.

      • prettyboyprobst

        Agreed, I don’t think you can fault Zeke here in any way, too. I included him more for added effect and because the dire prospect of losing Hannah here and seeing her with one foot out the door is what blindsided me as much as anything in these two hours tonight (I also didn’t get any predictions right and was decidedly wrong in some aspects. Chris for one and of course I didn’t see anything of what transpired in the second hour coming so early).

        • Kemper Boyd

          I felt like going after Hannah was dumb. If he’d gone for Ken or Jess and succeeded Hannah would have come back to him as he’s a power player and she is a follower. He got lucky the rocks got Jess.

          • prettyboyprobst

            Maybe if he went after Ken there would have been a chance to get Hannah back on his side (as Ken seems to be what connects Hannah with David’s side), but unless he’s gone I don’t see her new and improved self turning her back on beautiful Ken to go back to Zeke, whom she described as condescending.

          • Diego Armando

            I think because David would be less likely to save her than Ken or Jessica (see Rob voting out Jesus Matt for the second time in Redemption Island).

      • Mike Hirsch

        Yeah, I’m not entirely sure why they *wouldn’t* target Ken in that scenario (Zeke’s alliance, I mean. Not the rocks).

        • Baulderstone

          Ken would have been a smarter choice, sure. Taking out one David’s closes allies was the smarter move. As luck turned out, he did that anyway without trying.

          The rocks would never eliminate Ken. They admire his manly silence too much.

    • Kemper Boyd

      Even the game hates women this season.

    • tocantins

      The way I understood it, the whispering was a “move” to try to confuse the other alliance and potentially convince them to reveal who they were voting for. (She even asked it.) Which was why Brett got angry and said it was all smoke and mirrors.

      • prettyboyprobst

        I’ll have an eye on it when I get to re-watch. Do you mean Bret called the whispering from Hannah, Jessica et al. out, or was it more like Zeke’s “it’s theater” a comment at what both sides are doing?

        • tocantins

          I got the impression that he was talking about their whispering, but it was later on, so maybe he was talking more generally. I’ll also have to pay more attention to it on a rewatch.

  • Baulderstone

    I was really hoping this week’s immunity challenge would have revolved around mason jars. That would have been some rich irony.

    • We could have had a great scene of Jay holding a mason jar, a tear welling up in his eye as he says, “You know who was really great at these things?”

      Then he’d just look off into the distance as the tears silently ran down his cheeks.

      • sharculese

        Jay’s good, but he’s not that good.

  • the sky is falling

    dumb question, if I want to buy something on Amazon through your link, do I have to buy a featured product, or do I just need to access amazon through the link?

    • sharculese

      Anything you buy through the link gives them money.

    • Anything you buy should result in us getting referral money. And thank you!

  • Sadie

    I will say, I’m glad David took out Chris because he was a big threat, but also because I needed to know I wasn’t totally off in reading all that heavy foreshadowing.

    Is Jay winning? I feel like he can just disappear!

    • Jay has to be in the top tier of winner candidates.

      • Diego Armando

        I would put him at 3 behind Zeke and David.

  • Black Dynamite

    Oh shit, I just realized that my last two Pick 4 players got knocked off on the same night. I’m fine with this.

  • Sadie

    So, how do we all feel about the different players deciding to go to rocks in this spot? Technically, they all made the call not to flip their votes.

    What’s the play? Who should have flipped? Who was right to stay firm?

    • prettyboyprobst

      I would have to watch the second round of voting again, but Jessica made it difficult to complain about anyone from the Zeke-side sticking with their decision if my memory serves me right. I believe she seemed to be overtly wrangling with her decision even before it was her turn to vote, so those three had good reason to believe they would get a majority one way or another. Adam I wasn’t sure about either and I’m a little bit surprised that he went down that path, but I’m not ready to roast him for it. David was so invested in winning that showdown that I can’t fault him much for going to rocks when it came down to it, even with the questionmarks around Jessica and Adam, but he probably wishes he had played that tribal different from the start.

      • You are correct. Hannah told her to not vote for Hannah.

        • prettyboyprobst

          She did that right before Jessica had was up to vote the second time iirc, but I also think she seemed startled from the moment the first votes came back 5-5, which must have decreased the chances that say Will and Jay would flip.

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Jessica really put herself in a no-win situation by openly vacillating before the second vote. If someone flipped, everyone would assume it was her and I’m not seeing either alliance welcoming her into the fold after that. I wonder if someone else in Jessica’s alliance could have taken the opportunity to secretly switch their vote, assuming Jess would get the blame? I guess it would have only benefited maybe Adam or David, since neither was immune. Not sure what the net gain would be besides saving yourself from the rock draw and potentially creating some momentary chaos. So, maybe entertaining but not so smart in a long term sense…

      • Roswulf

        As Zeke observed, Tribal is a performance, and Jess is a TERRIBLE performer.

    • Diego Armando

      Honestly, I think there was no play. I don’t think Bret or David were going to back down.

  • Ms. Sweaterfan

    Great episodes tonight (especially the second one)!!

    • Ms. Sweaterfan

      Terrible night for my fantasy team though :/

      • Kemper Boyd

        Yep. I am donezo.

  • So, I am just throwing it out there that I am getting a loved ones visit for my birthday. #blessed

    • Alycia Swift

      So your birthday is next Wednesday right? Happy Birthday! Are you also doing dishes?

      • Hopefully not. I know some of my work friends are taking me to the local Italian restaurant for lunch and I am hoping to either get cashew chicken or Popeye’s for supper/Survivor.

  • Roswulf

    I love how in Episode One, Zeke gets information and immediately gives it to Chris, David and Hannah.

    By the end of the night, he’s axed Chris, declared war on David and gone all in on voting out Hannah.

    And none of those choices are particularly hard to defend. Good night of television!

  • Side Character

    So, which Thanksgiving double episodes were better: this season’s or Cambodia’s?

    • Purplerockmatt

      i would say these two

    • Diego Armando

      This. The first episode of Cambodia wasn’t interesting until the vote.

  • Prom King

    Survivor during Thanksgiving week is always fun for me because I usually force a bunch of people who never watch it to watch and it’s great seeing all of their reactions to players, blindsides, etc, and it’s fun explaining the various narratives to them. It usually helps that the only other people in the room who watch Survivor regularly are a friend and her daughter with whom I am almost always in alignment with as far as players go. Not this year though; daughter rebelled and joined the rest of the room in rooting for Jay (and to a lesser extent, Bret). David’s tears impressed very few people (“crybaby” according to the 8 year old). Ken was a boring cipher to most of them. My friend and I are all in for Ken and David,now that Michaela is gone, so we were in a sad minority. Although the room did agree that Zeke was very enjoyable. And also on that while we didn’t care for Bret and Zeke ganging up on David, it didn’t feel like actual bullying. For me, it felt like less of a pile-on than the one with Adam versus Taylor & Jay.

    All that said, the double episode was a good showcase for Survivor, at least for people who don’t watch it. They (and I) thought it was a great episode.

    • I wouldn’t call what Bret and Zeke did bullying. Mostly because I think that term gets overused, and that overuse dilutes its meaning.

      I like that you convince other people to watch the show with you once a year, though. It’s certainly more fun than hearing my druncle claim that it’s about time a president did something about the Mexicans.

      • Kemper Boyd

        It was a mean comment taken too far. That isn’t always bullying. If it happens at camp next week and at tribal again and again it becomes bullying.

        • Purplerockmatt

          especially with zeke and bret in a position of presumed power

        • Sadie

          Yeah, I’m 95% sure they get back and apologize for getting worked up that way (easier to do since they won the night) and David will be over it (he didn’t seem upset when it happened, TBH, mostly just shocked)

      • Hornacek

        Bret and Zeke weren’t bullying David, they were just being dicks. Bret in particular seemed to forget that his goal is to get to the end and have David vote for him to win.

        • Alycia Swift

          Bret and Zeke did exactly what Taylor and Jay did the week before.

          • Hornacek

            Taylor and Jay were lying about Adam’s actions in the game, that he had helped Taylor steal food and then eat it. They weren’t making fun of anything personal about him.

            Bret and Zeke were making fun of David’s anxiety and feelings of inadequacy. They might as well have been laughing at him in the high school cafeteria because he is different than them.

            So no, I don’t agree that it was the same thing.

      • sharculese

        It’s the day after and I’m still exhausted with all of David’s crying.

        • Hornacek

          How dare people be emotional on Survivor!

      • Prom King

        Yeah, I’d say Bret and Zeke unnecessarily indulged themselves in some low blows and they didn’t come out looking too good. But I wouldn’t call it bullying.

    • DrVanNostrand

      “Ken was a boring cipher”

      I like these people.

      • Prom King

        During the Hannah-Ken beach scene, I mentioned he was a model. The room responded with variations of “Of course he is” and immediately lost interest.

    • Purple Rock Emma

      I don’t consider either bullying, but I think Bret and Zeke were worth than Jay and Taylor because the former used personal attacks rather than something more based on the game.

      • Prom King

        Understandable point. They were definitely low blows and completely unnecessary. It was possibly less troubling for me because I find Bret & Zeke much more likable than Jay & Taylor, and I’m being biased.

        • Purple Rock Emma

          Thank you for knowing I clearly meant “worse” not “worth” haha.

  • Day after thought: Jessica drawing the black rock was kind of Survivor: Final Destination – girl got voted out like 7 episodes ago, and that torch snuffing was coming for her. The Survivor Fates found a way.

    • Kemper Boyd
      • I was hoping this gif was going to be the girl getting hit by the bus.

        • Kemper Boyd

          I felt a less gory one would do. I’d have done the boy getting hit by plate glass in 2

    • Hornacek

      It’s like she was given a terminal diagnosis on day 12, and Dr. David came in and gave her some medicine saying “This will cure you but it’s only temporary – any time left after now is a gift.”

  • Crappy

    People are focusing on David but I think the under reported story here is that Zeke pretty much blew his own game by going with David over Chris as well. I don’t think he did anything especially wrong over the 2 hours except that one pivotal decision to back David over Chris.
    Now granted Both Adam and Hannah it looks like were more on board with David’s alliance than Zeke anyway but Zeke could have still swayed both of Will and Jay to come with Chris’s numbers than David’s winning out 6 to 5.
    This is somewhat result oriented but Ken and Jessica were 2 people Zeke had no connection with. Plus he should have known that David was a more strategic thinker than Chris and would come after him soon, not to mention he had an additional power in idol as well.
    Now even if Zeke’s side won seemingly. Out of that 5 he is probably at the bottom. The remaining 4 still have a strong bond from their days at Ika Bula, not to mention he has been outed as the biggest threat in the game now.

    • Sadie

      Right? I don’t understand… Let GenX battle it out but pick the right side.

      Also, he is hemorrhaging allies…. Two episodes ago Adam and Hannah were his little pals, his nerdy trio. Now they have totally split from him.

      • Roswulf

        My main defense of Zeke bouncing Chris- which I thought was a mistake at the time- was how easy and comprehensively he managed to pick up Brett and Sunday. Had he taken out Jess, I don’t think it would have been nearly as easy to slide David/Ken in as pawns.

        Ultimately, what caused his position to collapse was that he absolutely misread Hannah. The person he thought was his number two was willing to blow up her easiest path to the finals for ????, and he didn’t see it coming. But his fallback position was enough to get the tie, and lord knows where we go from here.

        • Purplerockmatt

          this is how Zeke read the game I believe: he say three alliances, with two targeting each other and himself in the middle. He knew that if he sided with one that he would have to knock off that alliance at some point, so there is a matter of which alliance he can pick up in the absence of their leader, and i doubt he is picking up ken and jessica, but we saw him pick up sunday and bret. However, what he didn’t expect at all was losing hannah (and therefore adam) that was the mistake he didn’t see coming

        • tocantins

          Exactly. I think that (at least in his mind), when Chris is out, Brett and Sunday have no one else to turn to but him. But with Chris, they would be strong enough to move around and side with other people (like David) against him. Even because the problem they had was mostly with Jessica herself, with her out they would be open to working together again.

    • Alkanarra

      Zeke’s big issue was making it an open war: he’s seriously hurt his pull with Hannah/Adam, who are people he needs. Now all Jay has to do is let them knock out David next week, turn around and flip against Zeke, and bounce back and forth between “clusters” until it’s he, Will, Sunday, and some other goat. I just don’t see how Zeke convinces everyone to bring their focus back to Jay now that he made an enemy of Hannah.

      • DrVanNostrand

        Definitely. Jay is now critical to Zeke keeping a majority, and Jay would probably smoke him at FTC. And Jay has an idol.

        • Hornacek

          I’m hoping that someone lets slip to Jay that everyone knows he has an idol.

          • prettyboyprobst

            That would probably good for Jay going forward, but is there any doubt that it actually helped him to think it’s still a secret in the last two or three tribals?

          • Hornacek

            Yeah, if someone does let him know it might change how he handles each tribal. It would be funny if he manages to get by a lot of tribals without playing his idol, thinking at each one that no one (except Will) knows he has an idol, and then he finally finds out that everyone know, and at the very next tribal he misplays the idol and goes home.

    • Crappy

      Having thought more about this. I think his mistake was actually choosing a side and not convincing them to stand down for now. This is something which Jeremy did very well in Cambodia
      – He had Fishbach on leash pre-merge when he wanted to pull the trigger on Joe
      – He stopped Savage when he wanted to blindside Fishbach who was Jeremy’s tight ally at that point
      – He tried to talk Spencer out of voting for Stephen eventually playing his idol for him.
      Essentially keeping his allies on differing sides allowed him to escape being the target. All these players were so focused on each other that there little time left to target Jeremy. His ‘meatshield’ strategy gets overlooked IMO.
      In this case as well, if Zeke had the social capital, he should have overruled Chris and persisted with Jay/Will as targets for 2 councils at least. David said as much that he wants to get Chris and then he will think about Zeke. If he keeps Chris around, David primary target would still keep him occupied and vice versa with Chris and Jessica.
      It is easier said than done but if you are the social hub of the season then there is a lot merit to this strategy in this era of survivor where big threats are always targetted.

      • Roswulf

        I’m reluctant to give Will unironic praise, but some of the credit for this goes to Will. By telling Zeke about Jay’s idol, Will not only gave Zeke an incentive to protect Will, he also let Zeke no Jay didn’t work as the prime target. So to stay the course, Zeke had to be willing to jettison Will, and there was good reason for him to keep Will.

        Zeke could have cut the knot by targeting Adam instead…but that would have alienated Hannah, whose allegiance to him we now know was very shaky.

        • Assistant Dragon Slayer

          Yes, exactly. Based on last week’s “next time on…” a lot of people thought that telling Zeke about Jay’s idol would backfire on Will, but I thought all along it was a very smart attempt to proactively throw Jay under the bus and declare himself a free agent.

      • Purplerockmatt

        agreed completely that this was Zeke’s actual mistake. He needed to get jay out or at least jay’s idol out before seeing these two sides turn on each other

      • tocantins

        I don’t know; the problem with that idea is that both Jay and Will are Zeke’s votes. If he had got rid of both before going after David, he would have been in the weak minority come the confrontation.

        • Crappy

          That’s a fair point, I think Hannah choosing David over Zeke really hurt latter’s game.

    • DrVanNostrand

      It’s a common Survivor mistake to see physical threats as the ‘real’ threats in the post-merge game. I also thought David was a much bigger threat to Zeke than Chris was, and that Chris was much more valuable as an ally. But I did enjoy seeing my two favorite players team up to boot Chris.

  • Figaro

    Loved Jay’s Pretty in Pink reference after winning immunity. But doesn’t he realise that it’s a Gen-X movie?!? He’ll throw Probst’s generational stereotyping into complete disarray!

    • Hornacek

      I didn’t hear what Jay said, what was it?

      • Figaro

        I don’t remember it word for word, but something along the lines of:
        Probst – That was pretty to watch
        Jay – That’s because I’m in pink, Jeff

    • It’s such Millennial thing to reference Gen X movies.

  • Crappy

    Internet has such fickle crowd. Zeke says one bad thing at tribal and suddenly so many people hate him. It was such a chaotic, game altering tribal that some heated comments were always going to be exchanged. Edit wise it was a bad look for Zeke but not all the game can be kumbaya.

    • I haven’t really noticed much hate for Zeke – just people criticising him. I agree it’s a bad look for him though, mostly because the suspicion is that the editors tend to protect eventual winners by not airing stuff like that.

      • Kemper Boyd

        I agree with you here.

      • Crappy

        I was just going by reddit where there seems to be hate towards him because of that comment and Hannah’s take on him being condescending. But then reddit regularly flips on people over single sentences.

        • sharculese

          Redditors are dumb. Don’t treat them like people.

          • Crappy

            I like how this works as both a dig at reddit survivor community and Adam. :p

          • Yeah, don’t treat all of us as bad people.

      • Diego Armando

        Yeah because Mike never got into an argument with his tribe, Jeremy elwas never shown being pissy to his group, Tony never caught anyone and Tyson never told Katie to take a spot on the jury.

    • gouis

      It’s a real problem with the internet. The idea of “your fav is problematic” basically means you have to never slip up. Otherwise you’re a monster.

      • Kemper Boyd

        YYYYEEEEESSSSS. No one is allowed to be human anymore.

    • DrVanNostrand

      I was one of the people who made a comment about Zeke, but I absolutely do not hate him. He said one mean thing in the heat of the moment. The whole point of Survivor is to push you to the breaking point. It’s not like he went ‘full Will’. He’s still one of my favorite players this season.

    • Purplerockmatt

      oh i don’t hate him, that comment just really took me by surprise and seemed out of character. that was a very tense situation though and it seemed like he was done with the bullshit

  • Kemper Boyd

    Sunday or Will told Jay he wasn’t the target right when he didn’t play his idol? There is no way if he wasn’t informed he’d vote Jess at random.

    • Black Dynamite

      I would think so. Sunday and him have been shown on multiple occasions to be close. I think Sunday sees him as a valued alliance member.

    • prettyboyprobst

      Not sure if Sunday spoke with him alone again, but I thought we saw them agreeing that they were trying to make him feel like it’s him so he plays the idol. My guess would be that includes telling him whom to vote for, but being a little bit sketchy about it. It’s entirely possible that Jay saw right through all of it.

    • tocantins

      It is possible he got it from the TC talk. More likely, thought, someone came to him and told him to vote for her. But the point is that they almost certainly would do so in any case. It is very rare in Survivor not to tell the person being voted out to vote for someone else, even when it is very clear they are the one being voted out.

  • Hornacek

    So in one episode Bret goes from very likable (during his conversation with Zeke about being gay) to very unlikable for mocking David at tribal about crying. Plus he crushed Hannah’s dream about creating a new Survivor term. Quite the swing.

    Although in Bret’s defense, he did make me laugh when Adam and Hannah were whispering to each other and he tilted his head towards them trying to hear what they were saying.

    • Sadie

      😂that moment needs to be gif’d

      I can’t help loving the way Bret talks. Even though it was SO condescending, I loved the way he told Ken, “this is the game, welcome to it”

      • Alycia Swift

        And he thinks speaking to people that way will get him votes in the end if he gets there?

        • Sadie

          Right? Stupid af. It was funny because it was SO sassy/snarky.

          But yeah… Terrible.

    • Roswulf

      I have to say, I enjoyed Brett’s very human frustration with cutesy talk about alliances and “not-really-an-alliance-but-it’s-totally-an-alliance” variant nonsense He’s been repeatedly backstabbed, and is trying to roll with it, but DEAR GOD PEOPLE STOP SAYING NONSENSE! The battle lines are drawn, let’s go.

      Which isn’t to say it’s good game play (it is not)- I just sympathized and was amused.

      • DrVanNostrand

        His co-workers learned this about Bret years ago. Now when they play good cop, bad cop, he only gets to play bad cop.

    • Diego Armando

      I think emotions were running high and he might have been drunk.

      • Hornacek

        Where did he get the booze? The reward challenge was the previous day, and there was no alcohol given out for the immunity challenge. Did he sneak some beer back from the reward? He couldn’t have still been drunk from the previous day, could he?

        Or was Production saying “Fuck it, give him some beer, Drunk Bret is Fun Bret.”

  • David definitely made a mistake mentioning getting rid of Zeke to Bret and Sunday. But I wonder if what would have happened if, as soon as Hannah filled him in on the fact that Bret had talked, he’d gone straight to Zeke and said BRET says you’re gunning for me. He protects Hannah as the mole and if he’s lucky drives a bit of a wedge in between Zeke and Bret. Could it have worked? Or was it too late by then?

    • Crappy

      Hannah told David after he came back from the reward. By then Zeke and Bret had cemented their alliance even more with that talk.
      In any case, the above scenario only works if David can pull off a Boston rob ala All stars when he cornered Tom and Rupert over their plan to vote him out. I don’t think David has that kind of bravado.

  • andythesaint

    Note: no mailbag this week. Two hours of some of the best Survivor ever will easily fill an hour of conversation.

    • ExtraLargePelican

      Currently undersold in the post-game analysis: Zeke betrayed Chris but seems to have maintained rapport and would stand a good chance of getting his jury vote.

      • I think some people have said that the Boomer Sooner thing was his way of acknowledging who was the mastermind of the blindside. To me, the Boomer Sooner thing was his way of saying bye to his fellow Okie. That would be like me saying “Miz” and expecting someone else from Missouri to say “Zou”, even though I did not attend that university.

    • Diego Armando

      Just watched it and Holy Shit that was incredible.

  • sharculese

    Now I’m just gonna start liveblogging the National Dog Show:

    Hounds: I… guess I’m fine with the greyhound winning, but I was really into the ridgeback, and I’m not a fan of ridgebacks. Also that pharoah was gorgeous.

    Herding dogs: Sure, that border collie was perfect. I can’t complain. I can complain about how we didn’t even get to see the Aussie. The puli is adorable. Good addition to the group.

    Working dogs: I like the black Russian but I felt like I got teased. They didn’t show us the Bernese, then pulled it into the finalists, only to have it not make the podium. And those were like perfect, tricolor markings.

    • Hornacek

      Now tell me, which one of these dogs would you want to have as your wide receiver on your football team?

      • sharculese

        So far, probably the Irish wolf hound. But the sporting group still hasn’t been shown.

      • sharculese

        Yeah, having seen the sporting group, either the toller or the flattie. The Chessie is too independent.

    • I meant to record the dog show for my kids, but I didn’t. I will say that the ones I’ve previously seen often fail to show any Aussies, which is a fucking crime. They’re so fucking cute! (I may be biased.)

      • sharculese

        I had a 1-off session this morning and the family had a really cute black and tan Aussie mix.

    • Something Quirky

      Aw, why don’t you like Ridgebacks?

      • sharculese

        because aside from the ridgeback they just kind of look like standard brown curs.

    • Figaro

      Speaking of dogs: not sure if you’ve seen Jessica’s Ponderosa clip yet, but there’s yet another Ponderosa Pup which she gets quite emotional over. I doubt the dogs are there on purpose, but it would be pretty brilliant if the producers did deliberately plant dogs at Ponderosa to comfort/de-stress the eliminated contestants

  • Sylvisual

    Because of previous commitments (i.e. stuffing my face), I didn’t get a chance to live tweet tonight. So here’s my live notes instead…

    Five minutes in and there’s already a game of telephone and a game of war. This will be good.

    Well there goes that David winner edit. Confidence, dude!

    That said, he makes me feel better about my imaginary performance on the show.

    Damn, is David about to win immunity? YESSSSSSS.

    I could make a ton of money on a #TrustCluster candy bar.

    Bye bye, Chris. Go Okla-home.

    This Zeke/David civil war is making me so nervous….

    I really like this snake challenge, but the editors must have felt slimy.

    This is a gorgeous location, and some really fun challenges this episode. Blind mazes, belly flops, and bamboo.

    WHAT. IS. HAPPENING.

    God, Adam is the worst.

    The last time I was this emotionally affected by a black rock, there was a hatch.

    David’s idol play saved Jessica at first, then a bad idol play left her hanging. Full circle.

    • Sylvisual

      Sincerely, Mattmark Markmatt.

  • StormofCuteness

    There was a moment last night where I was positive I was losing two of my Challenge team members. 1st-I’d had no inkling going into the episode that Chris was a goner, but I was okay with it because I wanted to see Jessica stay (!)

    2nd-Holy f’in shit, David’s playing his idol for Hannah and Zeke is going home! But no…

    So, now I still have Zeke, but I was irked by his bullying of David at TC, and it’s clear, he’s put a target on his back by being arrogant.

    Which is to say, now that I’m down to Zeke and Sunday, I don’t think I have a prayer.

    • prettyboyprobst

      I lost Chris in the first hour and the second tribal came down to the two remaining members of my team. So that rock-draw was a lucky break for my team, not that it matters much anymore, considering where I sit in the standings with only two players left.

      • StormofCuteness

        I really feel for anyone who lost both Chris and Jessica. Yikes!

        • prettyboyprobst

          Just checked if there is anyone with that team in one of the two-player-leagues. Fortunately there isn’t a team like that.

          I don’t want to infringe too much on @purplerockjohn:disqus’s territory, but with him losing Chris, there is now only one fully intact CL team left, and you know it’s @disqus_GpYJ355BVM:disqus’s.

          Prepare her stake!

        • Black Dynamite

          I’m out in Pick 4 after losing both Chris and Jessica. Not that I had a shot in hell with only those two left.

          • StormofCuteness

            Holy heck, what a night for you!

        • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

          My team was Adam, Chris, Jessica, and Mari. Last night wasn’t the worst thing to happen to my team

          • StormofCuteness

            What was the worst thing? 😨

          • SpicyMayoJaySimpson

            The first episode, wherein I thought that Adam’s screen time would mean he’d be a competent player and that Mari wouldn’t be the second boot. It’s really the latter that sunk my fantasy team because I don’t think I’ve broken 100 all season

          • prettyboyprobst

            the premier tricked you, but there were three disastrous episodes for you since:
            – Mari boot
            – the episode that turned Adam from top-contender to pretty much drawing dead
            – Chris and Jessica boot

            I’d probably rank them that way, too. Losing those two at once probably doesn’t hurt as much after one and two happened. Anyways, pity upvotes all around!

      • Chris was my first player lost, which really hurts me, because no one my team is particularly high-scoring and I was just relying on all of them staying in as long as possible and earning a point or two each week.

  • tocantins

    So the best play of the (double) episode was by… Sunday! I know that only an idiot would believe the word of the rival alliance on who they are voting for (even after that horrible show they put forward of pretending to be considering flipping), but the way she said “Ken” was admittedly very straight-faced, fast and sincere. I don’t think she thought they would be stupid enough to take her word for it, but she did understand that she should not say the truth, and chose a reasonably likely candidate for the vote, all fast enough that she could sell she was telling the truth.

    One thing that speaks against this (and makes Adam and Hannah’s move even more stupid) is the fact that even if she did believe Hannah and Adam’s theatrics that they wanted to flip on their alliance, telling the truth about who they were gunning for wouldn’t get her anywhere. (As I doubt Hannah would flip to vote for herself.)

    • Prom King

      Definitely a good move by Sunday, but only successful because of Hannah and especially Adam’s absolutely terrible ability to read people, and to play the game.

  • Something Quirky

    I assume someone has already posted Jess’s Craigslist ad, but just in case:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx_tcMtUkAAtnCv.jpg